EV Digest 6222
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Battery Question
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Differential CVT ideas
by "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Fallout from producing advanced batteries???
by "Doug Hartley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Motors, motors...
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: What does it take to upgrade a Curtis controller?
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: [BULK] RE: If I only need a 5 mile range ... really
by "Marty Escarcega" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Battery Question
by "Fred Hartsell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: A powerfull ebike
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: [BULK] RE: If I only need a 5 mile range ... really
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Rolands Ebike
by Rich Long <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Motors, motors...
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Used Batteries WAS Re: [BULK] RE: If I only need a 5 mile range ...
really
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: 3 Wheelers stability issues
by "Marc Michon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: [BULK] RE: If I only need a 5 mile range ... really
by "Marty Escarcega" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Rolands Ebike
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Rolands Ebike
by Martin K <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Very small 2.9 hp accessory drive motors.
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Very small 2.9 hp accessory drive motors.
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Storm Connors" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 9:50 AM
Subject: Re: Battery Question
> I'm sure you will get answers from folks with more experience, but I would
be inclined to charge the offending battery by itself to try to get it to
the level of the others.
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Fred Hartsell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 10:11:55 PM
> Subject: Battery Question
>
> I am using 20 Six volt lead acid U2400 batteries in my pack. I just took
> the first long run of 26 miles to start checking to see what my range is
> going to be on the EV Dakota that I am working on. When I got back home I
> check the batteries to see how much they had been pulled down and I
noticed
> that the first battery in the pack was very warm while the other batteries
> were cool to the touch. I then checked the voltages on the batteries and
> found that the first battery was registering 3.4 volts while all of the
> other batteries were measuring around 6.2 volts. I am concerned because I
> had also noticed when I charged the pack before this trip; the first
battery
> was lower than all of the rest of the batteries in the pack after the
> charge. I had been charging the pack on my Bycan 120 DC volt charger
using
> 110 AC input but after everything cooled down I charged the pack using 220
> AC. This seemed to build up the pack better. My question is do I have a
> battery going bad, i.e. the first battery because of the heat that I
noticed
> and the very low voltage after my run or is this normal until you get the
> pack broke in. I have read in several places that it takes 10 to 20 good
> cycles to get the batteries broke in to where they need to be. I do not
> mind replacing the battery if it is going bad but I do not want to replace
> it unless I really need to. Any and all advice will be greatly
appreciated.
>
> Hi Fred;
Take that hot battery out and throw it away! They don't heal! They get
WORSE by the trip! If ya just jumper around it, to prove a point, car will
go longer with less voltage drop.A 26 mile trip will help ya weed out the
Stinkers! That was MY commute, distance wise , on the Turnpike at 60-70
EVery day.
Mt Dead sells worth
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
this is a good link .. giving the innards of the prius
in remarkably simple diagrams and description
it is notable that there is no traditional gear box
or clutch arrangement
and even the approach to handling power to the
drive wheels at below 15 mph speeds is totally
different
chris explained his printing press but without
diagrams, it is a bit difficult to understand
strange that a very old printing press uses similar
principles to the prius drive train for working
..peekay
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Lacy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 5:08 AM
Subject: Re: Differential CVT ideas
> You should read about the Prius' "Power Split Device" that does
> something very similar using 2 electric motors and a set of planetary
> gears.
>
> http://www.cleangreencar.co.nz/page/prius-technical-info
>
> (and/or google search for "Power Split Device")
>
> Steve
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> >Reading about using a differential as a way to control output speed
through
> >the use of two independant inputdrives reminded me of a machine I used
to
> >have to repair. it was a large electronic printing machine which had a
large
> >propshaft which ran through the back of the machine to drive each
different
> >'print engine'.
> >In order to get perfect registration all printing stations need to run at
> >exactly the same speed, the way the speed was controlled at each of the
print
> >engines was through a differential tied into a stepper motor.
> >
> >Stepper motors have very high 'holding torque' values and they were
mounted
> >on one 'side' of the differential, while the main drive form a 10HP motor
came
> > into the other 'side'. The perpendicular output shaft, which equates to
the
> >input propshaft of a car's dif, fed the print engine at 90 degrees.
> >
> >The way the speed was controlled was to allow the stepper to 'slip' in a
> >controlled manner. when the stepper was held stationary the output speed
was
> >equal to the main drive motor's input speed (divided by the diff ratio)
and to
> >slow down the output shaft to the engine the stepper was back-slipped
> >......this meant that one drive motor could drive several print engines
at a constant
> >speed, but each engine could control it's own speed, and therefore
'gearing'
> >by slipping the stepper motor.
> >
> >As far as I am aware the stepper was never strong enough to provide
positive
> >drive and only ever operated as a slipping brake. Later on the steppers
were
> >replaced with DC servo motors which didn't make an awful lot of
> >differnece....I believe they were added because they could at some point
in the future
> >help to increase the speed of the machine but the machine was a
prototype and
> >was decommisioned before we ever got the chance to speed things up.
> >
> >Instead of steppers there are many purpose built slipping clutches and
> >slipping brake systems which could be incorporated, but the maximum speed
is
> >always limited by the input. Instead of clean-braking, regeneration could
produce
> >a similar controlled slipping.
> >
> >Chris
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
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11/12/2006
>
>
Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have noticed that the air quality and vegitation are so much better and
greener around Sudbury in the last few years. It must be that the Prius
use of the nickel is having a beneficial effect.... :>)
Doug, tongue in cheek...
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 1:24 AM
Subject: Re: Fallout from producing advanced batteries???
On 16 Dec 2006 at 17:54, Michael Perry wrote:
New claims suggest the production of nickel in
eco-batteries is harmful to the environment
The piece appears to be from the Mail. Publishers sell newspapers and
magazines with sensational headlines, and this kind of nya-nya
"journalism"
is a favorite for that purpose.
I don't want to slight the significance of this issue. But let's face it,
all manufacturing has environmental consequences. But this article
doesn't
acknowledge that fact.
snip>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
G'day All
Well, it looks as though the fields in the motor that I have been preparing
for the Daihatsu truck are going to be expensive to rewind - the motor shop
has no wire even close (they usually only do AC motors) so I'm looking at
options.
Option 1) hang the expense and let them wind twin or triple wire of half or
third size and get 15 turn fields instead of the 22 turn fields that were
in there. But this won't be cheap.
Option 2) Make a template of the field poles from hardwood and post it to
Jim Husted and see if he can a) match the size or b) wind me some new
fields (of course, first thing would be to email the pole dimensions to Jim
and see if there is anything close).
Option 3) use the smaller version of the motor that came from the same
fork, but this has compound fields, so I'd need to do some "jiggery-pokery"
to control the shunt field, or try option 2 but for this motor instead to
make it series. This motor has 2-bolt fields instead of 3-bolt fields, plus
is slightly smaller in diameter but with the same brush gear.
Option 3) use a 4.5kW rated Thrige Titan series motor that came from a 24V
reach truck forklift. It is big in diameter, but short, 11" diameter, 14"
long with a commutator around 6" in diameter. The diameter lends itself to
simplified gearbox mating. The fields look to be only about 5" long.
Option 4) Lansing Bagnall 72V series 7.5hp 14" long by 9.5"dia, this motor
has narrow comm bars, 3 or 4 times as many comm bars as armature slots. Not
sure why, maybe related to the fact this has interpoles for reversing?
Option 5) Unknown motor, 8" diameter, 11" long in the body (around 3"
shorter than an ADC 8", but no fan, so probably not that much smaller),
although it seems to be a series motor, it has three big terminals and a
female spline, so probably a pump motor. I can make an adaptor for this
easily enough, and put a blower on it, so this is a candidate, if it is
likely to be "man enough" for the job.
Option 6) Hitachi 48V motor, 11" diameter, 14" or so long, 10kW rated.
Needs a lot of machine work as it has had its' brush end housing broken.
The truck is going to be around 900 to 1000kg (2000 to 2200lbs), used for
low speed (up to 80km/h, 50mph) service. Lots of steep hills here, so
torque is important. I have a Z1k to be able to program so as to look after
the motor, so...
Do send pole shoe templates to Jim Husted and see if he can match/make new
ones?
Do I use the large diameter Trige-Titan motor looking for torque at the
expense of RPMs?
The Lansing motor needs a good overhaul, and its' brushes are not as big as
most of the others.
The unknown 8" motor has big brushes for its' size, and being smaller in
diameter may be OK by reving it, but I think it'd make for a lot of gear
changes.
The Hitachi motor seems to be more of a "V8", probably way too much of a
motor for the little trucks' drive train.
What thoughts? All comments welcome.
Regards
[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
James Massey wrote:
G'day All
I keep seeing on Ebay Curtis controllers in voltages up to 36 volt, at
400A or so. Assuming that Curtis only use one type of diode, would it
be possible to upgrade (for example) a 12V 400A controller into a 120
volt, 400A controller?
I'm guessing that it would be more likely 120 volt 275A, but the
theory goes like this:
* Cut the power feed to the control circuitry and put in a suitable
DC/DC converter.
I think you'll discover that finding a suitable dc/dc that can handle
the input voltage range of fully charged to heavy sag unMader load will
be something of a challenge.
* Pull all of the electrolytic capacitors in the power stage and
replace them with ones rated to the maximum voltage likely to be
encountered (this is where I think that the capacity will be reduced
by not being able to put as much capacity in).
Maybe, maybe not. I've recently been looking at capacitors for
controllers, and the Cornell Dubilier 380L series seems promising.
* Pull the fets and replace them with some of suitable ratings.
What am I missing?
Make sure you have enough power to drive the FET gates, which may or may
not have a higher gate charge, and make sure the gate driver circuit can
deliver.
Freewheel diodes need to be upped in voltage, and bump up the total
current rating, as the Curtis diodes are a weak point to begin with, I'm
told. Oh, and good luck finding reverse connected diodes. They're
pretty much out of stock until next year sometime.
Provide adequate cooling for the greater power dissapated by power
devices; not necessarily easy.
Regards
[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Oh, it will happen now. B-)
I have collected the parts, all for 48 volt. ADC motor, Sevcon 500A
controller, Deltaq charger, I got them for what I feel were a song. $650. I
will use the Westcoaster 3speed tranny with reverse. From what I read and
really haven't heard otherwise, keep the clutch? The rear end is 5.38:1.
Since the next big expense is batteries, I'm trying to figure out what I
need, but could get by with if I find a deal on some batteries. From what I
read 6volt is better than 12 volt? I saw Surplus Center batteries, seem to
be a good price, but am leary of their condition and longevity. Leans me
towards biting the bullet and buying new. Costco has their 6volt batteries
for $61each, though I couldn't find any specs on it. Then I hear you guys
talking about Optima Yellow Tops...my head is spinning. :-) But at some
point I'll just jump in! Learn with what I have and then potentially upgrade
later.
---------------------------
Good Point! Marty wants a basic entry level EV, and has a good choice to
play. A golf caret Transaxle and motor shouild get him going. He might want
to hit somebody up, like Rod Wilde for a more powerful motor, that will push
the Cushman up to 40mph or so?He could live with an Altrax 400amp 72 volt
controller,12 Sam's Klub generic Golf cart batteries A simple mechanical
Golf Cart reverser, I think Rod offers them, too?And he lives in AZ so he
doesn't need a fancy heater, AC might be nice, but he will survive a 5 mile
trip with the windoz open?So, Marty, don't give up, hang in there and just
DO IT!
> My two watts worth.
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for all of the assistance on my battery problem. I am going to
replace the bad battery. I have tried several other shorter trips with that
battery always having lower voltage than the rest of the pack. I agree with
most of you that this is a bad battery. I guess that I am lucky that I
caught it this early.
Fred
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Rice [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 3:07 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Battery Question
----- Original Message -----
From: "Storm Connors" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 9:50 AM
Subject: Re: Battery Question
> I'm sure you will get answers from folks with more experience, but I would
be inclined to charge the offending battery by itself to try to get it to
the level of the others.
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Fred Hartsell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 10:11:55 PM
> Subject: Battery Question
>
> I am using 20 Six volt lead acid U2400 batteries in my pack. I just took
> the first long run of 26 miles to start checking to see what my range is
> going to be on the EV Dakota that I am working on. When I got back home I
> check the batteries to see how much they had been pulled down and I
noticed
> that the first battery in the pack was very warm while the other batteries
> were cool to the touch. I then checked the voltages on the batteries and
> found that the first battery was registering 3.4 volts while all of the
> other batteries were measuring around 6.2 volts. I am concerned because I
> had also noticed when I charged the pack before this trip; the first
battery
> was lower than all of the rest of the batteries in the pack after the
> charge. I had been charging the pack on my Bycan 120 DC volt charger
using
> 110 AC input but after everything cooled down I charged the pack using 220
> AC. This seemed to build up the pack better. My question is do I have a
> battery going bad, i.e. the first battery because of the heat that I
noticed
> and the very low voltage after my run or is this normal until you get the
> pack broke in. I have read in several places that it takes 10 to 20 good
> cycles to get the batteries broke in to where they need to be. I do not
> mind replacing the battery if it is going bad but I do not want to replace
> it unless I really need to. Any and all advice will be greatly
appreciated.
>
> Hi Fred;
Take that hot battery out and throw it away! They don't heal! They get
WORSE by the trip! If ya just jumper around it, to prove a point, car will
go longer with less voltage drop.A 26 mile trip will help ya weed out the
Stinkers! That was MY commute, distance wise , on the Turnpike at 60-70
EVery day.
Mt Dead sells worth
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 12:27 AM
Subject: Rolands Ebike
> Hi Roland,
>
> The website cannot be found and archive.org does not know it either,
> so I am guessing there is a spelling error in the name.
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
Miss the t in peltzer:
http://www.peltzer.net/ebike/
Roland
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That glider (Minichopper) is just the kind of setup that will work well with
electric power. With an ETEK & the right ratio & voltage that little
chopper will be a lot faster than than the Honda. You might get a 20 mile
range & I think that's about all you'd want with a hard tail like that. Of
course if you are doing your own frame you can modify it to fit batteries
and whatnot for that perfect fit look. Taking what you have and throwing ev
components at it isn't always the best choice. Good luck with your
projects. Like your shop. Lawrence Rhodes.......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marty Escarcega" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 7:21 PM
Subject: RE: [BULK] RE: If I only need a 5 mile range ... really
> Thanks Bruce, though I'm not sure that the thread was started by me, but I
> am in a similar situation, short commute and I've already been questioned
as
> to why this vehicle. I want to do it first of all because I was intrigued
by
> the vehicle a 3 wheeled Westcoaster Mailster. I originally thought to just
> redo the ICE. BUT then quickly remembered how enamoured I'd been for many
> years with electric vehicles. Thirdly, I love to fabricate, I have a
Lathe,
> Mill, Mig etc here in my home shop. I can and have done bodywork. You want
> to see what I am capable of?
> http://members.cox.net/escarcega-photos/minichopper/minichopper.html
> http://members.cox.net/val-escarcega/Jeep/jeep.html
> I have since moved and downsized, but this WAS my shop:
> http://members.cox.net/escarcega/metal/shop/metalshop.html
>
> Bottom line, I love to work with my hands and felt this would be a great
> project. I have to be a tiny bit patient because I have a couple projects
to
> finish up. When I do get going, I like to pay attention to the details. No
> worries, no one is rubbing me the wrong way. But I have been sifting
through
> the ev list archives and reading up a bunch. Roderick Wilde has also given
> me some information and links to even more reading material.
> And will continue to do so and educate myself some more....
>
> Thanks
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bruce Weisenberger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 6:41 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: [BULK] RE: If I only need a 5 mile range ... really
>
> Some reasons Marty Escarcega may desire to convert.
> He lives in Arizona!
> Summertime temps can run up to 120 degrees in the shade!
> The Dust storms came act like Tornadoes and rip out telephone poles!
> The Flash flood rains can drown a car sitting in stop and go traffic!
> We got a lots of old retired folks (80-90s) (no offense to anyone) that
use
> the edge of the side walk as a bumper bar to stay lined up with the road.
> And his location is surround by these types of neighborhoods. So riding a
> bike is hazardous to your health. Electric assisted bikes will get you a
> ticket if ridden in a bike lane or sidewalk. Not strictly
> enforced but.
>
> Lets help him create his electric conversion to go the distance he
requested
> and not harp on alternatives of different vehicles for a 5 mile trip. He
has
> a 3 wheel utility vehicle to convert. And he is raring to go.
> That should be enough to get answers.
>
> I have a 9 mile round trip so this topic is rubbing me the wrong way.
Marty
> has the vehicle- help him- not try to change his mind of what to use. The
> Golf cart transaxle sound to be a sound idea for example.
>
> Thanks
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sat, 2006-12-16 at 23:27 -0800, Cor van de Water wrote:
> Hi Roland,
>
> The website cannot be found and archive.org does not know it either,
> so I am guessing there is a spelling error in the name.
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
>
>
> Roland Wiench wrote:
>
> .... Been thinking to do something like this:
> http://www.pelzer.net/ebike/
>
>
Maybe he meant this:
http://www.peltzer.net/ebike/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey James
First off just get me some measurements of the pole
shoes and the housing length before sending anything.
As to the other options, I've only seen a few types
but I hate Lansing Bagnalls, so I say "bag" the nalls.
Hitachi makes an awesome motor though and even if it's
bigger than you need it will take a lot more abuse
than any of the other motor options you have. I
remember even telling you a long time ago that the
motor you had chosen tended to burn up the coils
(least I think I did). Every Hitachi I've seen has
been built like a steel mule and if someone's killed
one they worked hard to do it.
Anyway sorry to hear you've run into a wall here, lets
see what's the best way to fix this. Why scale a
hundred foot wall if it's only a block long, just go
around it, ya know, hehehe.
Anyway I'll be waiting for some pics and lets see what
you have to work with. With what I've heard so far
I'd make a new comm plate and go with the Hitachi and
have a happy workhorse of a motor to push you up those
hills, but it'd be nice to get more info.
Hope this helps
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
Send or post the other motor pics so I can eyeball
them for you before moving forward would ya.
--- James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> G'day All
>
> Well, it looks as though the fields in the motor
> that I have been preparing
> for the Daihatsu truck are going to be expensive to
> rewind - the motor shop
> has no wire even close (they usually only do AC
> motors) so I'm looking at
> options.
>
> Option 1) hang the expense and let them wind twin or
> triple wire of half or
> third size and get 15 turn fields instead of the 22
> turn fields that were
> in there. But this won't be cheap.
>
> Option 2) Make a template of the field poles from
> hardwood and post it to
> Jim Husted and see if he can a) match the size or b)
> wind me some new
> fields (of course, first thing would be to email the
> pole dimensions to Jim
> and see if there is anything close).
>
> Option 3) use the smaller version of the motor that
> came from the same
> fork, but this has compound fields, so I'd need to
> do some "jiggery-pokery"
> to control the shunt field, or try option 2 but for
> this motor instead to
> make it series. This motor has 2-bolt fields instead
> of 3-bolt fields, plus
> is slightly smaller in diameter but with the same
> brush gear.
>
> Option 3) use a 4.5kW rated Thrige Titan series
> motor that came from a 24V
> reach truck forklift. It is big in diameter, but
> short, 11" diameter, 14"
> long with a commutator around 6" in diameter. The
> diameter lends itself to
> simplified gearbox mating. The fields look to be
> only about 5" long.
>
> Option 4) Lansing Bagnall 72V series 7.5hp 14" long
> by 9.5"dia, this motor
> has narrow comm bars, 3 or 4 times as many comm bars
> as armature slots. Not
> sure why, maybe related to the fact this has
> interpoles for reversing?
>
> Option 5) Unknown motor, 8" diameter, 11" long in
> the body (around 3"
> shorter than an ADC 8", but no fan, so probably not
> that much smaller),
> although it seems to be a series motor, it has three
> big terminals and a
> female spline, so probably a pump motor. I can make
> an adaptor for this
> easily enough, and put a blower on it, so this is a
> candidate, if it is
> likely to be "man enough" for the job.
>
> Option 6) Hitachi 48V motor, 11" diameter, 14" or so
> long, 10kW rated.
> Needs a lot of machine work as it has had its' brush
> end housing broken.
>
> The truck is going to be around 900 to 1000kg (2000
> to 2200lbs), used for
> low speed (up to 80km/h, 50mph) service. Lots of
> steep hills here, so
> torque is important. I have a Z1k to be able to
> program so as to look after
> the motor, so...
>
> Do send pole shoe templates to Jim Husted and see if
> he can match/make new
> ones?
> Do I use the large diameter Trige-Titan motor
> looking for torque at the
> expense of RPMs?
> The Lansing motor needs a good overhaul, and its'
> brushes are not as big as
> most of the others.
> The unknown 8" motor has big brushes for its' size,
> and being smaller in
> diameter may be OK by reving it, but I think it'd
> make for a lot of gear
> changes.
> The Hitachi motor seems to be more of a "V8",
> probably way too much of a
> motor for the little trucks' drive train.
>
> What thoughts? All comments welcome.
>
> Regards
>
> [Technik] James
>
>
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Marty Escarcega" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 8:42 AM
Subject: RE: [BULK] RE: If I only need a 5 mile range ... really
> Oh, it will happen now. B-)
> I have collected the parts, all for 48 volt. ADC motor, Sevcon 500A
> controller, Deltaq charger, I got them for what I feel were a song. $650.
I
> will use the Westcoaster 3speed tranny with reverse. From what I read and
> really haven't heard otherwise, keep the clutch? The rear end is 5.38:1.
> Since the next big expense is batteries, I'm trying to figure out what I
> need, but could get by with if I find a deal on some batteries. From what
I
> read 6volt is better than 12 volt? I saw Surplus Center batteries, seem to
> be a good price, but am leary of their condition and longevity. Leans me
> towards biting the bullet and buying new. Costco has their 6volt batteries
> for $61each, though I couldn't find any specs on it. Then I hear you guys
> talking about Optima Yellow Tops...my head is spinning. :-) But at some
> point I'll just jump in! Learn with what I have and then potentially
upgrade
> later.
> Hi Marty;
If you sniff around major battery places, maybe ya can
find"Reconditioned" batteries for 15-20 bux? Reconditioned means they CHARGE
them, and do a quicky load test. Good battery guyz can sniff out bum ones
here. My battery guy said" bring it back if it isn't any good"Hell! I got
20k miles out of that 400 dollar pack. If you befriend the right guy, he
MIGHT EVen cast you some decent terminals, to cinch the deal? Or be
interested in your project to suggest, from stock, and cut you a deal.
Batteries, like cut flowers, don't last forEVer, he may give ya a deal on
older stock, to make it worth it, to you. Keep in mind that the lead is
being shot at Iraqis and in Trashcanistan, so it is getting quite dear for
frivious, practical stuff, like cleaning up the air.
Shameless plugs here; This is what Roy at RAE Battery in Berlin, CT did
for me. For all your battery needs, give him a shout, tell him I sent ya!
But for the Rest of the World, you're on your own.In the Worcester , MA area
go see the Good Folks at North East Battery. They are a BIG distributer,
warehouses full of enchanting and cool batteries of all shapes. Featuring
Trojans they often have blems , cheep.Dinged up cases or posts knocked off,
they don't wanna bother with casting another post, blow them out, cheap.
So, take a few pix of your "Baby" and get out there and talk to the
Battery folks. You may get lucky? But bring a strong checkbook! Nothing's
cheap, anymore in this day and age, it's all relative. Tony and I got about
two plus pallots of Dynisty GP 27's from Fone co UPS's for 3 bux a
piece!They had to go NOW or never! Loaded my poor old Ford Econoline with a
couple of TONS of as many as we dare stuff aboard, flogged it over to a gas
station and pumped the tires up to 55PSI to try to carry all the load! Made
it home, probably shifted the Earth's orbit moving all that weight<g>!Most
of them were new old stock, never been used ANYWHERE!They went fast! One car
done with them, the rest went to Fishing guyz, looking for trolling motor
batteries.Have a RR buddy into fishing, BOY! Did he sell them for me! Once
the word got out I coulda sold BOXCARS of them. I STILL get calls, 4 years
later.
You, too, may be in the right place, at the right time, for a deal. Sniff
around.So you older timers, who have been through several packs. Talk to
us, especially the Newbees, and show an' tell as to where ya got the good
battery deals, make the Battery Guy happy, too.The more savy battery guys
realize a whole new market thing here, and that we EVers network, and send
them more biz.
Used batteries are like Used People, you NEVER know what you are
getting, but I have had commendable luck with them. That's why I'm
suggesting above.YMMV.
My two sells worth
Bob
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Nikki
have a picture of your 3 wheeler or site what looks like?
miniEl is probably the lowest of all 3-wheeled EVs Think like a biker.
Brake early, and come off the brakes before a corner and you're good. I
>probably start most corners slower than a car would, but I reckon I come
>out faster.
why the heck would one have brakes on going into a corner?
Oh i ride motorcycles 1938 Indian scout,1947 Chief
1917 powerplus
yes you have cornering correct
Have you seen John's Harley servi-cycle electric, sweet
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/751
I rode it at the antique motorcycle club meet in dixon,ca
handles like a dream I think i like riding servi-cycle better than a side
car
even though it is great fun riding a hack on one wheel
so if you have a newer than 1965 motorcycle they won't let you in
but if you have an electric they will let you in
not in show but just a space
just like the hot rod guys the bikers think EV's are great!
Marco
1967 honda vfr EV
1994 Electricar S-10
----- Original Message -----
From: "nikki" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 1:26 AM
Subject: Re: 3 Wheelers stability issues
Hi Guys and Gals,
It's been an interesting discussion this - what did we start?!?!
Other than the under-steering issue (which I attribute to a light front
end) I feel the El handles pretty well. It feels like it has very little
body roll and as the centre of gravity is so low (the batteries and motor
sit over and between the rear wheels) and while it doesn't grip the road
quite as well as our 2 liter Honda Prelude it does grip.
Driving a three wheeler (with steering on a front single wheel) you have
to think less like a car driver and more like a motorbike. As drivers of
modern cars with traction control we always get into the bad habit of
braking late and perhaps keeping the brakes on as we start a corner. Any
biker will tell you that it's suicide to do that. I used to ride bicycles
a lot (sometimes up to 50 miles a day) and I can tell you that knowing
when to brake and how to approach a corner really make a difference!
It's the same in a three-wheeler. I can't throw it about like a can a
car with nice fat wheels and a meaty set of discs to help me out.
Perhaps it's because I'm used to driving classics with drum brakes where
you do most of your braking with the engine rather than the shoes, or
perhaps because I've spun a classic on a freeway by braking on a corner
but I do feel pretty safe with 3 wheels.
I've driven lots of cars which are tolerant of braking into a corner but
I've never had a drive in a 3-wheeler which likes it. The front wheel
will skip and try to keep going in the direction the rest of the car is
pushing it. I'm sure a two-wheel front, single driven rear will have
similar issues with traction. Does anyone know this?
The miniEl is probably the lowest of all 3-wheeled EVs and I think it's
pretty stable due to the battery and motor placement. It'll be
interesting to see if the lithium Ions I'm planning will affect the
handling at all. Of course, the El also has just one central seat, so
unlike the Zapp Xebra the weight really is symmetrically distributed left
to right.
In all honesty I think if you drive a 3-wheeler like a car you're asking
for trouble. Think like a biker. Brake early, and come off the brakes
before a corner and you're good. I probably start most corners slower
than a car would, but I reckon I come out faster.
Hope this all makes sense!
Nikki.
_______________________________
Old car? New tricks?
Visit aminorjourney.com to see the transformation from Hebe to EV.
E-minor isn't just a key any more...
_______________________________
On 15 Dec 2006, at 05:58, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
Where did you get the 3G lateral from? The add says 1G. I've never
even
heard of tires that could provide 3G lateral.
<http://www.vigillante.com/vigillante1.htm>
One wheel in front, and claims to do 3 lateral g, and be very stable
under
heavy breaking.
----- Original Message ----
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 6:17:07 PM
Subject: 3 Wheelers WAS Re: [BULK] Re: A different kind of EV video
:)
.. 3 wheeler EV .. stability issues
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Lile" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 6:55 PM
Subject: RE: [BULK] Re: A different kind of EV video :) .. 3 wheeler EV
..
stability issues
In the experiments we've done with 3 wheel bicycles, (yes, some of
them
were EV's) you definitely want the two wheels in front for cornering.
If you are turning and braking, then a three wheeler with one wheel in
front goes right over on it's side. I'm skeptical of all the
commercial
3-wheeler EV's out there. The steering wheels need to be in front, a
rear steer vehicle is possible but creates some interesting
challenges.
Lawrence Lile,
Hi Lawrence, an" EVerybody;
I'll go along with Jerry Dycus as to the two wheels on a 3 wheeler
gotta
go up front!In my tour of duties in the Orient I saw a lot of 3
wheelers.
Mazdas I think, that resemble the Zap 3 wheel truck. Hidiously
overloaded
they trundled thrrough the street of Taipei and Saigon.( Gees! That
dates
me) I never saw any overturned, but they don't drive like Americans,
pushing
the limit of EVery vehicle!I saw a Zap a few months ago, asked the guy
he
said it turned over too easy, or something to that effect. it would
appear
to defy the laws of physics, like 300MPH plus Top Fuel Cars, when you
try
to
bend it around a corner? Of course it will want to roll! I don't think
there
are ANY 3 wheel hiway worthy one- in-front cars?? Flame suit on, tell
me
IF
there are? There are 3 wheel Trikes, motorcycles, but not many cars.I
think
that with the batteries properly placed in a 3 wheeler, it will handle
beautifully? Jerry D? The real wheel is just providing the push, not
steering. It would seem like alota work to make the REAR wheel steer,
you
would haftas use the front as a power axle, Guess it would work?
My two Wheels worth
Bob
_____________________________________________________________________
_______________
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
http://new.mail.yahoo.com
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever
I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence, I think many missed the point. It's the EXPERIENCE I am looking
for. I will restore the Westcoaster (not a Honda)
http://members.cox.net/escarcega-photos/Mailster/63mailster1.jpg
I will be sensitive to being able to convert it back to ICE if I choose.
I love to fabricate, and I like to document things for others, not only
pictures, but the learing experiences as well.
The minichopper has a brand new ICE. And its nearly finished. I need to
finish it up before I move on to the EV.
I did fabricate the frame myself. I feel a little more comfortable around
here tooling around in a unique vehicle with a body rather than a
motorcycle. (Been there done that, had a Harley Dyna Wide Glide).
Westcoaster is a head turner. I'll do it up right. Should be fun!
Marty
-----Original Message-----
From: Lawrence Rhodes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 7:29 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [BULK] RE: If I only need a 5 mile range ... really
That glider (Minichopper) is just the kind of setup that will work well with
electric power. With an ETEK & the right ratio & voltage that little
chopper will be a lot faster than than the Honda. You might get a 20 mile
range & I think that's about all you'd want with a hard tail like that. Of
course if you are doing your own frame you can modify it to fit batteries
and whatnot for that perfect fit look. Taking what you have and throwing ev
components at it isn't always the best choice. Good luck with your
projects. Like your shop. Lawrence Rhodes.......
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Long" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 7:01 AM
Subject: Re: Rolands Ebike
> On Sat, 2006-12-16 at 23:27 -0800, Cor van de Water wrote:
> > Hi Roland,
> >
> > The website cannot be found and archive.org does not know it either,
> > so I am guessing there is a spelling error in the name.
> >
> > Cor van de Water
> > Systems Architect
> > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> > Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> > Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> > Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> > Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
> >
> >
> > Roland Wiench wrote:
> >
> > .... Been thinking to do something like this:
> > http://www.pelzer.net/ebike/
> >
> >
>
> Maybe he meant this:
> http://www.peltzer.net/ebike/
>
That its.
This list all the parts, sources and how to do to make a ebike or even
could be use for a 3 wheel bike.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The double reduction is always an issue on bikes with large wheels. I
built a bike with 20" wheels that had double reduction. They look like
major hacks to me.
Hub-motors are the most elegant but probably only practical on wheels
20" or smaller. I had a 26" chinese brushed hub-motor that worked decent
once you were moving, on flat ground, but has insufficient torque to
really get you moving from stop or go up any hills. Like the author
writes, I think high torque BLDC motors have the most promise for ebikes.
--
Martin K
Roland Wiench wrote:
Maybe he meant this:
http://www.peltzer.net/ebike/
That its.
This list all the parts, sources and how to do to make a ebike or even
could be use for a 3 wheel bike.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Found some threadmill motors from
www.threadmilldoctorstore.com/catalog/Threadmill-Motors that are 2.9 hp
continous and 3 inches in diameter and 12 inches long. They are shunt type
rated at 90 to 110 vdc at a rpm that the tech could not tell be at the time.
I am planning to use two of these motors wire in series to come off my 180 v
battery pack. These motors have a double shaft, where I will double belt
these motors together at each end so the load will be equal on both motors.
These motors will replace my Honeywell accessory drive motor that is 18
inches long and 7 inches in diameter that drives, the power steering,
alternator-inverter, A/C and vacuum pump which when everything is a peak
load is about 4.8 HP. Average hp is about 3.2 hp.
In connecting these DC shunts in series, some motors have 4 leads, 2 leads
from the fields and 2 leads from the armature. Would it be better to
parallel the fields and armature of each motor and than connect each motor
in series, or :
Connect the fields of each motor in series and the armature in series and
than parallel both series fields to the both armature windings?
I have done this type of motor connections in 3 phase motors where we
connected three 208 VAC wye motors that have only 3 leads. We was able to
run off 480 volt 3 phase open wye circuit by connecting these three motors
in a series-parallel connection which doubles the winding length of the
motor circuits.
So it should be able to do this with DC shunt motor.
Roland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Try this thread,
www.treadmilldoctorstore.com
http://www.treadmilldoctorstore.com/Products-Services/Web-Specials/Upgraded-2-9-HP-Treadmill-Motor-with-Right-U-Mount;jsessionid=ac112b801f43092452033b1849d89317e2dd43f36fed.e3eTaxiPc3mTe3yNa3mRbN4QaO1ynknvrkLOlQzNp65In0
and more here
http://www.treadmilldoctorstore.com/Products-Services/Motors-DC-Incline_2
I didn't look real close, but most of them are
permanent magnet motors.
I have about 5 in the basement like this, $20 each
plus $10 shipping if you're interested.
Rod
--- Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Found some threadmill motors from
>
www.threadmilldoctorstore.com/catalog/Threadmill-Motors
> that are 2.9 hp
> continous and 3 inches in diameter and 12 inches
> long. They are shunt type
> rated at 90 to 110 vdc at a rpm that the tech could
> not tell be at the time.
>
> I am planning to use two of these motors wire in
> series to come off my 180 v
> battery pack. These motors have a double shaft,
> where I will double belt
> these motors together at each end so the load will
> be equal on both motors.
>
> These motors will replace my Honeywell accessory
> drive motor that is 18
> inches long and 7 inches in diameter that drives,
> the power steering,
> alternator-inverter, A/C and vacuum pump which when
> everything is a peak
> load is about 4.8 HP. Average hp is about 3.2 hp.
>
> In connecting these DC shunts in series, some motors
> have 4 leads, 2 leads
> from the fields and 2 leads from the armature.
> Would it be better to
> parallel the fields and armature of each motor and
> than connect each motor
> in series, or :
>
> Connect the fields of each motor in series and the
> armature in series and
> than parallel both series fields to the both
> armature windings?
>
> I have done this type of motor connections in 3
> phase motors where we
> connected three 208 VAC wye motors that have only 3
> leads. We was able to
> run off 480 volt 3 phase open wye circuit by
> connecting these three motors
> in a series-parallel connection which doubles the
> winding length of the
> motor circuits.
>
> So it should be able to do this with DC shunt motor.
>
>
> Roland
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
