EV Digest 6262
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Electric for diesel swap in sailboat.
by "Paul Hannah" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) CG, Re: Gens in EV's, Re: Current Eliminator news
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Scoot, electric scooter from the Netherlands
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: battery rebuilding, desulfating, additives,
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Electric for diesel swap in sailboat.
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Rats attacking EV wiring (was Hairball control wire sizing
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Electric for diesel swap in sailboat.
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Recycled 4/0, 0000 guage cables
by "Harry Houck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) 100F caps
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
10) My boat (was: RE: Electric for diesel swap in sailboat.)
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: AltairNano Completes ORDER to Phoenix Motorcar
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Electric for diesel swap in sailboat.
by pekka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Belgiums going e-Postal, Valence L-Ion Oxygen e-scooters
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Electric for diesel swap in sailboat.
by Robert Lemke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re:Current Eliminator Dragster News 1st 07 win
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
16) Re: Joe Sixpack Geo: EV-1 controller & only 2 terminals
by "Darin - MetroMPG.com" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Current Eliminator news
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Lost Messages on EVDL
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Happy new year from Manzanita Micro
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,
Thanks for the replies. The boat is a 38' steel, and quite heavy at
approx 9t fully loaded (inc 1t of water and fuel.)
I've decided (unless I change my mind :) ) that I'm going with 48v,
4x12v 80w solar and a wind generator of some kind. My calculations
(assisted from another email) indicate this should fully charge a
220Ah bank in about 30-40hrs.
I'm not planning on using a genset of any kind -- this may be a bad
decision. We are pretty stubborn and will grit our teeth and sail, so
have yet to run the engine more than a few hours in one stretch. So
far I don't think we would have required any more than a single charge
in one leg.
You mention regenerative charging -- we're very interested in this and
will want to make any system we put in place handle this.
I need to decide on gearing options... Everyone seems to be gearing
down, so my initial idea of bolting direct to the shaft appear to be
wrong. One common option seems to be to use a belt between the motor
and shaft, which will require a bearing being mounted at the motor
side (currently the only bearing on the shaft is at the prop end.) If
it were possible to bolt the motor direct to the shaft and mount is in
place, then we could probably do away with the side-pull caused by a
belt (I'm a bit concerned about this as I don't know what the issues
are going to be long-term.)
Re the person suggesting veg oil for the diesel -- one of the primary
reasons for removing the diesel is that we don't know enough to
maintain it properly (and would rather find an alternative than learn
:) ), just don't like it, noisy, smelly, etc, etc. I really want to
sell it off and never see it again!
My thinking currently for the house bank is to charge them from the
48v bank via a 48v/12v dc/dc converter and the current small 12v solar
panel.
thanks for everyones help,
Paul.
On 1/2/07, jerryd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Myles and All,
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Electric for diesel swap in sailboat.
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 10:29:15 -0800
>Wind, solar and hydro aren't the only ways to recharge
>underway. And on a sailboat, may not come close to the
>alternatives.
Hydro is the way on a sailboat by using the prop as a
rotor to turn the shunt/PM motor to use it as a gen. Are you
all not doing this yet? I mentioned it 10 yrs ago and
several times since.
Especially using PM or AC motors, you can just use a
regn controller like the Sevcon to buck up the gen output to
the battery voltage. It works especially well with flat
pitched sailboat props.
So while sailing or anchored in a current, you can
charge all you want ;^D While this isn't eff, there is so
much power available, most boats will need to keep it turned
off most of the time. And recharge while sailing too.
It should work great in SF bay for powerboats,
anchor in the tide going the wrong way recharging, then go
with the tide and tidal powered EV charge you could travel
from Maine to Key West using no other fuel!!
That's how my next boats fuel, house power will
work and will even have AC for the Fla summer!! As soon as
the Freedom is launched, I'm selling my home, building a new
cat or outrigger and moving back onboard ;^D
But back to his problem, without knowing what boat
he is using, it's performance, his sailing skill and how he
plans to use it, not much can be recommended that means
anything. Maybe he will tell us?
And for a gen, I would never use any but a DC gen
for battery charging, preferably a diesel.
Jerry Dycus
If you can get by with 2HP or less, a Honda
>2kw genset will deliver 1.6kw continuously to a charger.
>I use that on my boat, along with enough onboard chargers
>to deliver 40amps to my 36v pack while underway. While
>that's only enough for my 4000# bargeboat to do a bit over
>4knots, a similar size/weight sailboat hull would do even
>better. So at under 1/4gallon per hour for those emergency
>situations, a genset/charger arrangement can get you to
>port. If I'm going more than 25miles in a day, I always
>bring mine along. Go ahead, throw the noisy diseasel
>overboard...or get a much smaller diesel genset to replace
>it with when you go electric.
>
>As mentioned by Rod, those interested in boat conversions
>might do well to check out the Electric Boats list on
>Yahoo.
>
>-Myles Twete, moderator, Electric Boats list
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Peter And All,
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: OT, Re: Gens in EV's, Re: Current Eliminator
news
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 15:25:10 -0700 (MST)
>>>Jerry doesn't bother with calculations, or measurements.
>>
>> That would be a good line if it were true which by
>> now you know is not as my calc's were already posted
>> first, at least in my e mail. ;^D Maybe next time you
>> could give me a little time to respond than an hr or 2?
>
>Sorry Jerry, I was just trying to help you out. WHat I
>said has been your standard response to me when ever I
>questioned your postings.
That's just not true Peter and you should know it.
It's also amazing you answered this post. I'd have at least
apologized offline had I blown it like you did!
>
>Like for example, how it is you use the weight of the
>batteries in your Freedom EV to lower the center of gravity
>of the whole vehicle below the center of gravity of the
>batteries. That doesn't make sense to me.
Not to me either as I don't say that!! Where did you
get that idea? I want to see your reference? I said, say my
CG is about 13-14" high and stand by that.
I've never said my CG was lower than the battery's
CG. Yes, it is very low as designed which makes 3wheeler
much more safe, better handling I hope than most sportscars
and why EV's and 3wheelers are an excellent match.
So please tell me where is all the higher weight you
think makes CG on the Freedom EV that raises it's CG?
Everything but some fairly light but strong body,
20-.50lbs/sq', ect, is down around 6" above the floor,
batteries, motor, wheels, suspension, ect, all have CG's
below that. No?
How high is a GC battery's CG? It's about 4.25"
high!! Now add 6" of road clearance, 3/4" chassis thickness
and the batteries CG is about 11"! No? Now batts are more
than 55% of it's weight with most other weights about the
same except the body which only weighs about 100lbs above
the CG.
While I've never described it in this detail, I'd
thought anyone would know that, especially you as you build
3wheelers. I guess some just don't.
Maybe you should do some math before attacking
someone with such bull.
>
>When I've asked how you measured or calculated your posted
>extreemly low CoG and Cd for the Freedown EV, you've always
>stated that you don't need to measure these items and can
>state them with certainty based on your "Vast Amount of
>Experience"
Again not true. I do weight studies as I always say
when asked, where each part is weighed and located to
measure it's CG both up and down and for and aft. In
3wheelers it's very important for a safe vehicle as you know
Peter. I've been doing CG's for over 35 yrs and just not
that hard. You seem to have selective or imaginative memory?
>
>FWIW I don't doubt your skills as a fabricator, the Freedom
>EV looks great.
Thank you, it's one of my best works.
>
>I just wish yo'd either stop making questionable claims
>about it, or back them up with something other that your
>"Vast Amount of Experience". Maybe some actual facts and
>measured figures.
What claims? I want details which claims I've made
that can't be backed up with facts Peter?
Why didn't you answer the facts on my mileage post I
put up before you said I don't post calc's instead of trying
to bull your way out of being just plain wrong in this post?
>
>> As you know I'm not great at higher math but that
>> doesn't mean I can't figure out things. I, like the
>> boatbuilders, other craftsmen of old, design by rules of
>> thumb, %, and known working examples, ratio's.
>
>I have no problem with rules of thumb, or even crafting
>items using nothing but the old mark 1 eyeball. I have
>great admiration for these types of craftsmen.
>
>My only issue is with posting concrete numbers and then
>refusing to back them up with measurements or even decent
>calculations.
Again show me an example? At least when I'm wrong I'm
man enough to admit it.
>
>> To me this is
>> more accurate most times than strict calculations as you
>> have to verify them anyways which means I just save a
>> step over pure calcs.
>
>This is my problem, you don't bother to verify figures, so
>you believe that makes them acurate.
Yes I do but I also know things vary depending on
speed, driving style, ect. So lets face it, it's hard to be
exact in such a variable EV world which is why in the real
world, my methods of calculations tend to be more accurate.
If you want to catch me on something, at least find
where I'm actually wrong, not vague generalities of your
feelings about me!! I use to have respect for you even when
we disagreed. You owe me an apology Peter.
Jerry Dycus
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Stylish-looking e-scooter design project. The high-speed version of
this site has some fun animation:
http://www.electroscoot.com/
A couple of snips from their about page:
scoot - electric mobility The need to commute to and from work impacts
greatly on our daily lives and our environment. Incorporating recent
advances in battery technology and performance, scoot offers a clean,
quiet solution for our daily travel needs. One that has been designed
for people who want a product that offers style and simplicity.
Scoot is a collaboration of three companies - GRO design, TIM
modelmakers and Korff & van Mierlo photographers - each one
contributing their world-class specialist skills to this showcase
project.
Lion, swapable. 40-50km range claimed. 1.500 Euro
tks
Lock
Toronto
Human-electric hybrid pedestrian
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 31 Dec 2006 at 15:26, Steve Powers wrote:
> What about battery rebuilding? I read about it, but are there actually
> people who do this?
There's a battery shop several miles from my house. They're located in a
mildly depressed area and they do a brisk trade in "reconditioned" batteries
for ICEs. They cost $20, IIRC. On any given day I'll see a couple of '70s
and '80s vintage beater ICEs in their lot, awaiting transplants.
One day I was there to buy a (new) battery and I asked the guy loading it
into my car what they did to recondition a battery.
He didn't even look up from what he was doing. "We charge it," he replied.
= = = = =
An EV old-timer trick is to drain out the electrolyte, rinse the cells with
clear water, and replace the electrolyte with fresh at 1260-1280 SG. This
will often get a little more use out of the batteries. The downsides are
that the batteries continue to decline in capacity after this (even faster
in fact), and you have a disposal problem since the old electrolyte and
rinse water contain lead compounds and can't (responsibly) be flushed down
the drain.
= = = = =
Almost every golf car battery you buy is effectively a "rebuilt" battery.
The battery recycling system in the US is highly developed. When you return
your used batteries to the dealer, they're sent to a recycling operation (as
an aside, some of the recyclers are in this country and fairly responsible,
but others are overseas in poorly regulated countries, and are sometimes out-
and-out environmental disasters). Just about anything still useful is
recovered from your old batteries and used to make new ones.
= = = = =
Summary : there's no really good alternative to replacing the EV's battery
when it's depreciated. The best strategy for keeping per-mile costs low is
to use the most economical batteries (flooded golf car) and take the best
possible care of them (a smart, properly configured charger; charge
promptly; equalize when necessary; don't overcharge or overdischarge).
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 1 Jan 2007 at 10:29, Myles Twete wrote:
> If you can get by with 2HP or less, a Honda 2kw genset will deliver 1.6kw
> continuously to a charger. I use that on my boat, along with enough onboard
> chargers to deliver 40amps to my 36v pack while underway.
Maybe I'm missing something here. If you're going to run an engine to power
the motor anyway, why not just leave the EV drive out and use the engine to
drive the prop? It would be more efficient, simpler, and cheaper.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 31 Dec 2006 at 17:38, Rush wrote:
> This is way off subject ...
Actually this may not be as far off subject as you might think. A fair
number of EVers store their EVs for the winter, and this can be a concern
unless they have a very secure storage facility.
In responding, please focus on practical ways to prevent this rather than on
the more esoteric question of why the rats attack EV wiring.
My suggestion is a traditional one, but I find it very effective. Keeping
cats in and around an outbuilding such as a garage mitigates the rat
problem. An adult rat isn't afraid of a cat, but a female rat will move
elsewhere to give birth since a cat IS a danger to a young rat. This tends
to gradually reduce the population as long as there's not much (real) food
on your premises.
I suggest though that you keep the cat(s) out of the EV itself, as cats can
pose their own cleaning problems.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Paul and All,
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "Paul Hannah" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Electric for diesel swap in sailboat.
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 09:33:21 +1000
>Hi all,
>
>Thanks for the replies. The boat is a 38' steel, and quite
>heavy at approx 9t fully loaded (inc 1t of water and fuel.)
Regretfully that doesn't really answer what kind of
boat it is. If it's a typical steel cruiser with just ok
sailing ability, it's probably not a canidate for EV drive
though maybe a hybrid drive could work well.
>
>I've decided (unless I change my mind :) ) that I'm going
>with 48v, 4x12v 80w solar and a wind generator of some
>kind. My calculations (assisted from another email)
>indicate this should fully charge a 220Ah bank in about
>30-40hrs.
That's a good voltage for powering but you are going
to have little range.
>
>I'm not planning on using a genset of any kind -- this may
>be a bad decision. We are pretty stubborn and will grit
>our teeth and sail, so have yet to run the engine more than
>a few hours in one stretch. So far I don't think we would
>have required any more than a single charge in one leg.
I'd go with a smaller diesel of about 10 hp coupled
with a PM motor on the drive shaft to give you range, safety
and plenty of house power.
>
>You mention regenerative charging -- we're very interested
>in this and will want to make any system we put in place
>handle this.
Most any regen motor/controller should do it. I like
the Etek and the Sevcon controller from EVParts amoung
others though Eteks are hard to find now.
Especially for your boat, EV drive of this type can
help your sailing to windward by a large amount.
How is setting your speed with the controller and
when you go below it like when you ae slowed, stopped by a
wave, as your speed goes below the set point, the motor
drives keeping your speed up rather than stopping, bearing
off to gain speed before returning to the wanted course. And
when sailing above the set speed, you charge which if set
right, should just make up for the power used to keep going.
I hope this isn't confusing.
>
>I need to decide on gearing options... Everyone seems to
>be gearing down, so my initial idea of bolting direct to
>the shaft appear to be wrong. One common option seems to
>be to use a belt between the motor and shaft, which will
>require a bearing being mounted at the motor side
>(currently the only bearing on the shaft is at the prop
>end.) If it were possible to bolt the motor direct to the
>shaft and mount is in place, then we could probably do away
>with the side-pull caused by a belt (I'm a bit concerned
>about this as I don't know what the issues are going to be
>long-term.)
You need gearing most likely depending on your
motor/controller choice.
>
>Re the person suggesting veg oil for the diesel -- one of
>the primary reasons for removing the diesel is that we
>don't know enough to maintain it properly (and would rather
>find an alternative than learn :) ), just don't like it,
>noisy, smelly, etc, etc. I really want to sell it off and
>never see it again!
A smaller 1 lunger should be much easier to repair or
replace cost effectively, especially as you can sell the
present diesel to buy 1 or 2 of them used.
But remember at sometime you are going to need power
to get out of danger. With it's instant power available now
is very nice.
Your prop choice is very, very imortant!!!
>
>My thinking currently for the house bank is to charge them
>from the 48v bank via a 48v/12v dc/dc converter and the
>current small 12v solar panel.
That's one way.
Jerry Dycus
>
>thanks for everyones help,
>Paul.
>
>On 1/2/07, jerryd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Myles and All,
>>
>> ----- Original Message Follows -----
>> From: "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: <[email protected]>
>> Subject: RE: Electric for diesel swap in sailboat.
>> Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 10:29:15 -0800
>>
>> >Wind, solar and hydro aren't the only ways to recharge
>> >underway. And on a sailboat, may not come close to the
>> >alternatives.
>>
>> Hydro is the way on a sailboat by using the prop
>> as a rotor to turn the shunt/PM motor to use it as a gen.
>> Are you all not doing this yet? I mentioned it 10 yrs ago
>> and several times since.
>> Especially using PM or AC motors, you can just
>> use a regn controller like the Sevcon to buck up the gen
>> output to the battery voltage. It works especially well
>> with flat pitched sailboat props.
>> So while sailing or anchored in a current, you
>> can charge all you want ;^D While this isn't eff, there
>> is so much power available, most boats will need to keep
>> it turned off most of the time. And recharge while
>> sailing too. It should work great in SF bay for
>> powerboats, anchor in the tide going the wrong way
>> recharging, then go with the tide and tidal powered EV
>> charge you could travel from Maine to Key West using no
>> other fuel!! That's how my next boats fuel,
>> house power will work and will even have AC for the Fla
>> summer!! As soon as the Freedom is launched, I'm selling
>> my home, building a new cat or outrigger and moving back
>> onboard ;^D But back to his problem, without
>> knowing what boat he is using, it's performance, his
>> sailing skill and how he plans to use it, not much can be
>> recommended that means anything. Maybe he will tell us?
>> And for a gen, I would never use any but a DC
>> gen for battery charging, preferably a diesel.
>> Jerry Dycus
>>
>>
>> If you can get by with 2HP or less, a Honda
>> >2kw genset will deliver 1.6kw continuously to a charger.
>> >I use that on my boat, along with enough onboard
>> >chargers to deliver 40amps to my 36v pack while
>> >underway. While that's only enough for my 4000#
>> >bargeboat to do a bit over 4knots, a similar size/weight
>> >sailboat hull would do even better. So at under
>> >1/4gallon per hour for those emergency situations, a
>> >genset/charger arrangement can get you to port. If I'm
>> >going more than 25miles in a day, I always bring mine
>> >along. Go ahead, throw the noisy diseasel overboard...or
>> >get a much smaller diesel genset to replace it with when
>> >you go electric.
>> >As mentioned by Rod, those interested in boat
>> >conversions might do well to check out the Electric
>> >Boats list on Yahoo.
>> >
>> >-Myles Twete, moderator, Electric Boats list
>> >
>>
>>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the tip, I'll see if they'll jam into a box with some
filament tape around the middle.
I can't find any rating on the insulation, just a part number.
>>> "Joseph H. Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 01/01/07 6:54 AM >>>
Correction - now $8.10 for two sizes of US Priority Mail, by weight for
the
other two boxes.
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>> The payback is negligible. If you sag your battery from 12.5v to .10.5v,
> >your dV is 2 volts. The energy you get out of a 100F capacitor in the
> .act of pulling it down 2 volts is 1/2*c*v^2 which is 200 joules, or 200
> >watt*seconds. If you drag the battery down over 1 second time period >>you
> >will be able to draw 16 extra amps (avg 11.5v)
>Would it really help the batteries much? Obviously the cap will drain
>quickly under sustained heavy loads. But what about draws UNDER >133A? (2V
>battery sag / 15mOhm battery ESR = 133A max recharge current to the >cap)
>Say you're cruising at 100A. Instead of 800A (WAG) current spikes at >15KHz
>the battery would see a relatively constant 100A draw. MAYBE Peukert >would
>give you a few more AH from that battery...
>Adrian
Has anyone ever considered fitting a cap on(or even in) the armature of the
motor rotor. Connected across each 'phase' of the windings. When the brushes
line up the capcitor charges at the same time as winding energises, and after
commutation the capacitor discharges through the winding so it still
provides some magnetic torque despite being off the bruses at that point.
I suspest there'll be problems feeding the cap and the winding with enough
current, but it's a fun idea tonight !
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David Roden asked:
> Maybe I'm missing something here. If you're going to run an engine to
power
> the motor anyway, why not just leave the EV drive out and use the
> engine to drive the prop?
> It would be more efficient, simpler, and cheaper.
Sure, if I regularly cruised 25+ miles per trip, but I don't.
Ninety percent or more of my trips are less than 5 miles and 4% of the time
the travel is between 5-10miles. Only about 1 in 16 trips on my boat
requires me to even contemplate bringing the generator.
The usage is primarily as an electric boat and only rarely do I even bring
the genset as a backup. Rarer still (one trip per year MAX) do I depend on
the genset for a long distance trip requiring I run a genset for any length
time.
So you see at least 15 of 16 trips I take are quiet, non-polluting electric
affairs which greatly justify having an electric and yes, on rare occasions,
dragging along an ultra-quiet genset.
-Myles Twete, Portland, Or.
1989 electric bargeboat conversion "The Reach Of Tide":
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/492
1921 Milburn Light Electric:
http://www.milburn.us/myles_twete1921.htm
or http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/348
1911 Hupp-Yeats Electric Model 1A Regent:
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1018
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Mon, Jan 01, 2007 at 11:24:43PM +0200, Kaido Kert wrote:
> A commenter on the Energy Blog set the record straight on the cost of
> the batteries:
> http://thefraserdomain.typepad.com/energy/2006/12/altairnano_comp.html
> quote:
> NO, the battery packs do NOT cost $75,000
> apiece. They cost approximately $14,000 each.
Is this $14,000 for a 35 kWh pack with BMS that lasts > 10000 cycles?
This seems like a great deal!
Where do I sign?
Thanks!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
jerryd wrote:
Hi Myles and All,
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Electric for diesel swap in sailboat.
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 10:29:15 -0800
Wind, solar and hydro aren't the only ways to recharge
underway. And on a sailboat, may not come close to the
alternatives.
Hydro is the way on a sailboat by using the prop as a
rotor to turn the shunt/PM motor to use it as a gen. Are you
all not doing this yet? I mentioned it 10 yrs ago and
several times since.
Especially using PM or AC motors, you can just use a
regn controller like the Sevcon to buck up the gen output to
the battery voltage. It works especially well with flat
pitched sailboat props.
So while sailing or anchored in a current, you can
charge all you want ;^D While this isn't eff, there is so
much power available, most boats will need to keep it turned
off most of the time. And recharge while sailing too.
Jerry,
I must wonder whether you have hands on experience with this? I know
distance sailors might risk an overcharge with regen if the wind is
brisk for many days in a row, but then a 4 quadrant controller with a PM
motor is relatively easy to adjust for less regen if desired.
My 25' boat (15" dia 10.5" pitch prop) starts to regen at about 3.5
knots, makes a few amps to the batteries at 5 knots and may reach 4-5
amps momentarily, going 6 knots or more - I have heard a rumour that in
slightly larger boats, with displacement hull speed 7 to 8 knots or
more, regen works better though.
In my boat, a 30 Wp solar panel usually produces more electricity than
regen. Not that my boat is anywhere near well set for regeneration but
it is a reference to me.
As for the hydro-gens or tow-gens, some reach a whopping 250 Watts at
full output, at more than 5 knots in any case...
Naturally, using a really big prop, preferably with a shaped nozzle,
would put more than float amps to the batteries I guess. Jerry, do you
have real life examples of having to turn off prop regen while anchored?
As for Myles' solution with a Honda genset, this an easy way to overcome
the range limit in small sailing boats and other small displacement
boats. For 9 tons, maybe something bigger than a Honda.
I am using my motor to leave the marina and sometimes 15-20 minutes to
get better wind direction, so I am doing fine with a 220 Ah (C20) 24V
pack. My brother would need a genset for his boat, he motors quite a
lot. Your nautical mileage may vary ;-)
Pekka
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I stumbled across this video on YouTube... It's a presentation given
September 11 by De Post-La Poste, the national postal company of
Belgium about their trials with the Oxygen electric scooter.
Unfortunately the copy on YouTube cuts off after 5:30min or so, but the
gist is, their initial impressions are favourable...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCMRfbncBgc
A related vid follows a letter carrier around on a route:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hAcjhVMEnU
Seen here:
http://investment.suite101.com/discussion.cfm/1329
BRUSSELS, Belgium, Sep 05, 2006 (BUSINESS WIRE) -- De Post-La Poste,
the national postal company of Belgium, and Oxygen, an Italian
manufacturer of light electric vehicles, have signed a two-year
contract for the supply of electric scooters. The first set of 50
Oxygen scooters will be tested by the Belgian post operator over the
next six months, after which La Poste will decide on the further
integration of the "Postscooter" within the La Poste fleet. The
Postscooter will enable the fleet of La Poste to deliver mail
door-to-door on a daily basis (currently about a 5,000-scooter fleet).
The September Business Wire piece also says "Other European postal
companies are in the process of purchasing or testing the Oxygen
Postscooter."
Oxygen is building with Valence Saphion(R) Lithium-Ion BTW.
The point of all this is only that Oxygen seems to be developing one
sweet e-scooter. They have a nice (3.6MB) ppt presentation about their
postal vehicle (BMS,intefaces,etc) on their site:
http://www.oxygenworld.it/Courier&ParcelDespatch.ppt
In the De Post-La Poste presentation, she mentions the postal service
setting up their own in-house service for these vehicles in their
postal facilities - so a network being set up to service EVs <grin>
Might be a nice side-line for any postal service losing revenues to
online biz from their traditional services.
Anyway, I'm hoping that Oxygen does will with this niche, and that
sooner or later they will ramp up to produce civilian product again.
tks
Lock
Toronto
Human-electric hybrid pedestrian
__________________________________________________
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This is from my memory of my 1968 Cal 40 over 25 years ago. I did not have
electric aux drive but could clulch out the diesel from the shaft. I used a Max
prop, which in reverse would reverse its pitch for much more power in reverse
for setting the hook. This prop would feather when shifted from forward to
neutral but would stay locked in reverse if shifted from reverse to neutral.
Because of this I was able to put together a pulley gear up ratio to drive an
alternator. I found a lot more power out of the alternator sailing with the
prop locked in reverse pitch. Again my memory is a little foggy but at 6 knots
I think I was getting 30 amps.
Bob
pekka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
jerryd wrote:
> Hi Myles and All,
>
> ----- Original Message Follows -----
> From: "Myles Twete"
> To:
> Subject: RE: Electric for diesel swap in sailboat.
> Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 10:29:15 -0800
>
>> Wind, solar and hydro aren't the only ways to recharge
>> underway. And on a sailboat, may not come close to the
>> alternatives.
>
> Hydro is the way on a sailboat by using the prop as a
> rotor to turn the shunt/PM motor to use it as a gen. Are you
> all not doing this yet? I mentioned it 10 yrs ago and
> several times since.
> Especially using PM or AC motors, you can just use a
> regn controller like the Sevcon to buck up the gen output to
> the battery voltage. It works especially well with flat
> pitched sailboat props.
> So while sailing or anchored in a current, you can
> charge all you want ;^D While this isn't eff, there is so
> much power available, most boats will need to keep it turned
> off most of the time. And recharge while sailing too.
Jerry,
I must wonder whether you have hands on experience with this? I know
distance sailors might risk an overcharge with regen if the wind is
brisk for many days in a row, but then a 4 quadrant controller with a PM
motor is relatively easy to adjust for less regen if desired.
My 25' boat (15" dia 10.5" pitch prop) starts to regen at about 3.5
knots, makes a few amps to the batteries at 5 knots and may reach 4-5
amps momentarily, going 6 knots or more - I have heard a rumour that in
slightly larger boats, with displacement hull speed 7 to 8 knots or
more, regen works better though.
In my boat, a 30 Wp solar panel usually produces more electricity than
regen. Not that my boat is anywhere near well set for regeneration but
it is a reference to me.
As for the hydro-gens or tow-gens, some reach a whopping 250 Watts at
full output, at more than 5 knots in any case...
Naturally, using a really big prop, preferably with a shaped nozzle,
would put more than float amps to the batteries I guess. Jerry, do you
have real life examples of having to turn off prop regen while anchored?
As for Myles' solution with a Honda genset, this an easy way to overcome
the range limit in small sailing boats and other small displacement
boats. For 9 tons, maybe something bigger than a Honda.
I am using my motor to leave the marina and sometimes 15-20 minutes to
get better wind direction, so I am doing fine with a 220 Ah (C20) 24V
pack. My brother would need a genset for his boat, he motors quite a
lot. Your nautical mileage may vary ;-)
Pekka
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My dragster and I went 6 rounds today to claim the 1st win of the year at
Speedworld.CE ran from 11.971 to 12.008 and I had great reaction times when
needed.We added $325.to CEs war chest.Next race,the 1st points of 07 will be at
Speedworld 1-6-07 9am. Dennis Berube
currenteliminator.net
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Roger -
Thanks for that info. Good to know the controller will work fine with
the 2-terminal motor with the controller's field features disconnected.
The EV-1B is still mounted on the forklift control panel the extraneous
forklift circuits (seat, brake & direction switches, driver modules for
FW etc). My intention was to try to get it working with all this stuff
still connected via the original wiring harness & switches (which I
kept), and then trace connections to eliminate/bypass (jumper, probably)
the stuff I don't need.
Also I will have to somehow accomodate the "Static Return to Off" logic
(that required the forklift operator to activate control switches in a
specific order) or the thing won't work.
I don't suppose you have a schematic of the L and R terminal strips with
this already accomplished? (It's an EV-1B.)
Re the Curtis:
> It may also disable itself if it sees a resistance much
greater than 4500 ohms (detecting this as an open circuit fault
condition), so ensure you have the pot connected and adjusted the the 0
ohm end for low speed when starting up.
I did try this approach with no luck.
Now I wonder if I should also try the opposite, powering up at 5k ohms
on the pot (the EV-1 works this way - going from 6.5k to 0 ohms to
increase speed). I *have* seen this Curtis model (1204-410) described
as needing a "5-0K" pot, which I thought a bit odd at the time, but not
odd enough to raise a red flag until now. I'll try that next...
Darin
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----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 5:15 PM
Subject: Re: Current Eliminator news
> > Danny
> ***Again the EU2000i is just for an emergency.The truck should have a 35
mile
> range more than I need around this town.The cage was constructed in
primarly
> a header shop so the exaust issue has already been adressed.Thanks Dennis
>
I am not sure anyone would care..
Just as long as you had the genny was turned off for the run.
And... Hybrids are OEMs.. and can run as a what ever NHRA calls them.
It would be a good time for NEDRA to figure this out...Just what class we
racers and PHEV hackers could run our street rigs in.
There are some pretty fast Lexus hybrids out there.
I can see Madman making a series hybrid that has a 8 or 9 incher hanging
below.. doing Shove support to the ICE and stock hybrid equipment.
Madman
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Hey listers..
A couple of New Year's items:
First I have all the service work out the door!!
Man you all have better and better ways of breaking chargers...
Best one to date is a fleet of OEM Water Taxis.. That pump the chargers full of
Graphite dust...
Air cooled chargers don't like conductive black power Electrostatically plating
onto the most highly charged tender bits of the power stage.
Neither would I !
Nice to have everybody fixed up and back on line.
New items for the Reg Stable:
The MK3 Regs, are getting pretty solid. I have 3 strings in service... the
first has issues, The last two strings work, and are getting solid.
I have not been really pushing this product, But it's getting to the point that
I better. Everybody loves them, If they can talk RS-232.
One of the back burner projects has been a USB 2.0 Dongle to support the Mk3s.
This lets us Plug and Play Regs.
Well I got a phone call from Bruce Sherry last night, He loaded up the SMT
board and has it scanning Regs. What?? I thought that day was still aways off!
Needless to say.. Umm I guess we now have USB Mk3 Regs Dongles.
ER...dongles.. a Mk3 Reg has to have a terminator, and a Dongle that converts
RS-232 or USB to Regbuss's Own version of EVilbuss.
We now have two flavors USB and RS-232. The scanner code is in Perl and I am
not sure what file sets we have to ship, or post for plug and play work.
Effort is being spent on a simple and cheap Scanner and manual command
application. I hope that is ready in days.
I Just took a batch of 13 Mk3 Regs... any guess who's batch??? I am sure he
will chime in soon on this subject...
Bruce loaded the latest bits into them, and I stuffed them on my PHEV pack #
3, And lit off the old 232 scanner, and Well Nothin' But net!
No errors perfect data collection.. I was amazed.. After of year of hacking and
building and then reloading and trying again.. solid data with the PC.
OK... Now to sell them. That won't be too hard to pull off. Once you play with
them.. You are sold!!
The Website has a picture of the old Mk3.0 Reg. We have about 40 of them left.
We just turned 5 of the Mk3.2 Regs..
They run as....er Prayed for. I am going to turn 100 to 250 of them. And see
what you.....ER... the marker will bare.
They have lay down smaller ATO fuses.. nice,and they have a drill pattern that
fits my PHEV Battery hold down rails.
And a 2 pin Molex header, so you don't have the use Fastons. This saves about
1/2 a inch in a stack up of Regs. AKA they pack better.
The Mk2C analog regs.. are in production.. and batches should clock out of here
about 2 a week. Gotta order more parts of course!
These run like Mk2B but have the same foot print at the Mk3 and can run the
PHEV kit with under as well as over voltage control of the PFC charger.
The hard part:
Getting about 30 chargers orders out of here before you all start screaming at
me.
A few are pretty good at that right now!!
Oh and one Valence based PiPrius kit has to happen this month... I may beat
Hymotion to having a Lion PHEV in Seattle first.
I have the order.. now to actually build it!
Happy New Year
EV listers...
Off to change the world
One Green box at a time
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
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