EV Digest 6275
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Unsafe Controllers - Question ...
by "Chris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Converting a 1975 Pinzgauer 712 to electric????
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
3) Re: Need a little diagnosis help...
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Converting a 1975 Pinzgauer 712 to electric????
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Circuit Breaker and Contactor, secondary failsafe
by "Mark E. Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Unsafe Controllers, secondary failsafe
by "Mark E. Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Converting a 1975 Pinzgauer 712 to electric????
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
8) Battery Advice: Please
by Mark Freidberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: KillaCycle web site - Updated (finally)
by Dave Stensland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Ford Tahoe conversion
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) ProEV news
by "ProEV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Ford Tahoe conversion
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Converting a 1975 Pinzgauer 712 to electric????
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Unsafe Controllers
by Martin Klingensmith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Unsafe Controllers
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
16) Re: Unsafe Controllers - Question ...
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
17) Re: ProEV news
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: direct drive (basic questions)
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Unsafe Controllers - Question ...
by "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: direct drive (basic questions)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Unsafe Controllers
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) YouTube was Re: ProEV news
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: Ford Tahoe conversion
by "Dave Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> No! do NOT build this circuit, as you are interconnecting
> pack voltage and 12V aux battery voltage, which is wired
> to chassis ground. With this circuit, it would become
> dangerous to touch your batteries or charge them through
> most chargers, as they may connect the grid voltage to the
> outside of the car.
Hehehe, I think you're over-reacting aren't you.
The fact is that the circuit won't actually work _because_ motor
ground will not reference vehicle ground. Something I'm happy to
admit I overlooked.
I didn't suggest connecting the ground from the relay to the car
body, but to motor ground, and as far as I'm aware M- isn't connected
to ground normally.
You've brought up a good point though, I don't see many EV'ers
earthing their cars but instead just using a two pin charge plug. If
the chance for a mains breakover is there wouldn't it be wise to
earth the vehicles ?
Also is it not a good idea to disconnect your pack when charging it ?
That would certainly remove any problems.
The reworking of the circuit could include a further relay, an
optoisolator switch or another device offering a further degree of
isolation over and above the ones which you should already have in
place !
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
I am seriously interested in converting a 6x6 offroad vehicle. Its
is a 1975 Pinzgauer Model 712, which has a 4 cylinder aircooled
gasoline engine, 90 Hp and 185 Newton Meter of torque. Although it
is a gasoline engine it has all it's torque at 2000 rpm. I am
living in Europe, more precisely in the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg (
NO it is not in Germany - and the country is the size of Rhode
Island). Due to my location there is not a lot of information
available, as most european countries will not allow such a
transformation. My country will authorise it provided I have every
single item installed on the truck well documented. There is not a
lot of choice here in Europe so I will have to rely on people in
the USA to give me the correct advise, tell me what equipment to
purchase ....and hopefully guide me in every step of the procedure.
I cannot afford to keep changing the setup over, or go from one
idea to another, especially that I will probably have to order
everything in the USA, adding transport costs and import fees.
My questions are:
(1) I would like to swap my gasoline engine for an electrical
engine - but according to the laws in my country I cannot be over
or under of 90 Hp and 185 Newton Meter torque.
(2) I need to have regenerative breaking working on it.
(3) I need to run an electrical vacuum pump to assist my brakes
(mandatory)
(4) The truck is right now running on 24 volt system
(5) Right now maximum possible speed of this truck is 60 mph, due
to gearbox and portal axes. (6 time independant suspension on
portal axes)
(6) I want to keep my original manual gearbox
(7) I would love to have a range of 250 miles at max 60 mph.
(8) I wish to install on the roof solar panels to help increase the
range. Surface = 2 yards by 5 yards
(9) For loading purposes the electrical hoop up in Europe are 220
V/230 V 50 Hz.
(10) I can, if need be, install 1,500 Lbs to 2,000 Lbs worth of
batteries weight.
Any help in this matter is really gratefully appreciated. This is
the start of this thread of info request and I hope I can keep you
all updated how my project comes along.
Best Regards to all of you,
Jacques Miller
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sounds suspiciously like a bad throttle pot. Pull the throttle pot wires from
the controller and hook them to a meter set to read resistance. Then slowly
move the lever back and forth. The values should steadily change through a
range of 0 to 5000 ohms (give or take a hundred or so on each end), and
shouldn't have dead spots.
Also, if you have a 9" ADC motor, they are known not to play well with the
1221B controllers too well, with possible bucking behavior during startup and
low throttle. The C models whine, but are supposed to work better.
David Brandt
----- Original Message ----
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: EVList <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, January 4, 2007 8:44:32 PM
Subject: Need a little diagnosis help...
I have a Rabbit PU, 120VDC, with Curtis 1221B. Batteries, 8Vx15, three
years old. When I last checked in December, they had SG around 1.265 (50
degrees). One low cell was 1.200, and a couple of other cells (other
batteries) were 1.225. The lowest cell battery will have lower voltage -
say, if others range from 8.4 to 8.5, this one will be 8.3.
My problem: Most of the time I have had the car, it has sometimes bucked
when starting from a stop (motor cutting out). It has gotten much worse
recently. I will leave home with car starting in 1st gear normally, and go
about 1/8 mile to intersection. When I go to start again, I will get a
moment of throttle, then power cuts totally. If I keep my foot on the
throttle it will recover in about 10 seconds. This may happen again or
several times, or if I get motor running with some revs, I can coax the car
forward without it cutting out. So, a bit of load seems to be associated
with it. Once going, the car is fine. I park for an hour, and coming back,
it does the same. It has been getting worse, not recovering as fast.
It seems to have gotten worse when the battery temps have gotten down to 40.
At 50 today, it seemed better, but did still happen.
I mentioned this to Roderick, who helpfully suggested a few things. I have
checked for hot terminals and found none. I have used an analog VOM to
check the system at various points.
Power going into controller does not break when the car falters, and same
with the Curtis pot. At the motor, however, the volts go to zero at those
times. BTW, I get readings of voltage at the motor up to 75 - is this
normal that only 75 volts make it to the motor?
Roderick, with inadequate data from me, suggested possibly that it could be
voltage sag, with the controller shutting down because of it. I'm not sure
I saw much drop in voltage (normally goes down to 105-110 as I accelerate) ,
but how much sag would cause this reaction from the controller?
Does this appear to be a battery problem, or controller, or something else?
Do I need more information?
Thanks for your help.
Dave
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
G'day Jacques, and All
At 11:35 AM 5/01/07 +0100, Jacques Miller wrote:
Hi,
<snip>
I cannot afford to keep changing the setup over, or go from one
idea to another, especially that I will probably have to order
everything in the USA, adding transport costs and import fees.
My questions are:
(1) I would like to swap my gasoline engine for an electrical
engine - but according to the laws in my country I cannot be over
or under of 90 Hp and 185 Newton Meter torque.
There is a European distributor for Siemens electric vehicle traction
systems, I don't recall who, Victor, I believe you work with/know of them?
The Siemens range should allow you to select a suitable system and program
it to be exactly the torque stated. The electric system will probably have
much less stated horsepower, as the electric is continuous rated and the
petrol engine is rated for its peak. As long as you explain this to your
transport department they should be OK with it.
(2) I need to have regenerative braking working on it.
AC is the most straight-forward way to go, there are very few DC systems
available with regenerative braking, unless you can get a system from a
Berlingo or similar that matches your power requirements. One option may be
to find a bent Berlingo or other european EV that would provide most of
your system components.
(3) I need to run an electrical vacuum pump to assist my brakes
(mandatory)
Simple enough.
(4) The truck is right now running on 24 volt system
Not insurmountable, the Siemens AC systems have a built-in DC/DC converter,
but they are mostly 12V, but they may do 24V. Apart from that, 24V is a
common industrial voltage, so a suitable DC/DC converter would be available
from Vicor or some other manufacturer.
(5) Right now maximum possible speed of this truck is 60 mph, due
to gearbox and portal axes. (6 time independant suspension on
portal axes)
AC drives mostly rev a lot higher, so you may find you need to limit your
top speed for safety, unless there is a drive system that does not rev so
high.
(6) I want to keep my original manual gearbox
That is standard practice.
(7) I would love to have a range of 250 miles at max 60 mph.
That is a tough one, but enough Euros should take care of it. Lithium
batteries would probably do it (Finland electric vehicles have a lot of
experience with this). Your battery weight precludes anything else except
maybe Sodium-Sulphur, if you can manage to get one. If you are short of
funds you may have to limit your range significantly initially to get the
vehicle done, run it on lead-acid batteries for a year or two, then upgrade
the battery pack and add the management system. I cannot see your transport
department caring if you change battery chemistry, as long as you do not
change the weight.
(8) I wish to install on the roof solar panels to help increase the
range. Surface = 2 yards by 5 yards
Feel free to install on the roof of your house, but on the roof of your
truck you are likely to get about an extra two to four kilometer for a
sunny day. This is due to 10m2, 10kw of sun, solar panels 20% efficient,
2kW if ideally aligned, laid flat maybe 800watts for the middle couple of
hours of the day, maybe 2kWh per day.
(9) For loading purposes the electrical hoop up in Europe are 220
V/230 V 50 Hz.
Brusa and many other chargers are made in Europe, but that doesn't stop you
getting one from USA.
(10) I can, if need be, install 1,500 Lbs to 2,000 Lbs worth of
batteries weight.
40 to 50km range on lead-acid batteries.
Any help in this matter is really gratefully appreciated. This is
the start of this thread of info request and I hope I can keep you
all updated how my project comes along.
Jacques, there are about 1000 people from all over the world subscribed to
this list, you are in the best place to learn of EVs. You may be better
served to convert a small vehicle - a 2WD truck or van or a car as a
learning exercise, unless you have plenty of Euros, as your ambition is
pretty high and expensive. Ask questions, network your potential suppliers
- you should be able to get all you need from European suppliers. And have
some fun as you go along.
Hope this helps
Regards
[Technik] James
(in Australia)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Jack etc.
You can't rely on the uP to decide when there's a problem, you need a
secondary failsafe, that's why there's a upper microswitch mount on the PB-6
potbox to wire to a contactor (with a pre-charge resistor) so the contactor
opens *everytime* you release the throttle peddle. From what I've seen over
the years, this is really the safest way to insure a failsafe off condition.
There is also a mount on the potbox for a full on microswitch which I use as
well for a bypass contactor incase the controller craps out with a Mac truck
behind me (so I can make it to the naxt exit). I've had a controller fail on a
couple times over the years (since the 70's) and I probably wouldn't be
writting this if I *didn't* have a high peddle seconday mechanical contactor
failsafe off condition.
Have a renewable energy safe day,
Mark
Thu, 04 Jan 2007 12:01:06 -0800 From: "Jack Murray" <[EMAIL
PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Circuit Breaker and
Contactor Plain Text Attachment [ Scan and Save to Computer | Save to Yahoo!
Briefcase ]
I certainly agree safety is very important, the issue is HOW TO DO IT. I
understand most of you do or have done things a certain way for years, and
think doing something different must be wrong, but you have blinders on.
Disconnecting the battery pack on every throttle lift seems a poor brute
force method. I did not suggest using the breaker in this manner, and agree
it would fail under those conditions. What would make more sense to me is
having the on/off controller monitor the throttle, when it goes up or the
brakes go on, if the current doesn't drop it THEN can shutdown the power. I
note that using a contactor to disconnect constantly prevents regen. I do
expect to see 1000amps draw during runs, and if that blows out a contactor it
isn't going to be big enough. Sw200 info says 250amp continuous, 340amp
intermittent. The surplus breakers may not be big enough either. Jack
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes it's a clever system but any controlled backup needs to be periodically
tested to make sure it's still operative in an emergency. (Like my neighbor
trying to start his generator when the power went out). I opt for the KISS a
contactor that opens *everytime* you release your foot off the accelerator
peddle is the safest. I have over 100k miles on previous EV's that have been
done this way with little contactor wear or controller problems. (Make sure
you use a pre-charge resistor, mine was 5W, 1K.
Cheers,
Mark
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 15:05:43 -0700 To: [email protected]
From: "Bill Dube" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Brake motor current switch
(was: Unsafe Controllers - Question ...) Plain Text Attachment [ Scan and
Save to Computer | Save to Yahoo! Briefcase ]
John Wayland figured out how to do this very cleverly several years ago.
As I recall John placed a magnetic reed switch right next to the motor cable
so that it would open when current was flowing to the motor. He put this reed
switch in parallel with a brake pedal switch that would open when the pedal
was pressed. This whole thing was placed in series with the main contactor
"seal in" circuit. If there was a large current flowing to the motor, and
you put your foot on the brake, it would drop out the main contactor.
Quite clever, isn't it? Bill D. At 02:42 PM 1/4/2007, you wrote:
>Wouldn't it be possible to build a circuit that: > >Disables the contractor
whenever the brake lights come on AND there is >current (or voltage) on the
motor? Wouldn't that clearly indicate the >drivers desire to stop even though
there seems to be power delivered to >the motor? > >Somebody able to draw
up a quick circuit? > >Michaela
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello James,
Lol - I love that Australian greeting. (G'Day)
But more important. Thank you for responding so quickly and with
such details.
(1) No need for solar panels
(2) range = lithium batteries = heavy price !!!!
(3) Need to limit the rpm to a max of 4,500 rpm as the gearbox will
not take more.
(4) Should start with a smaller car (due to conversion price) =>
not really interested - I have 3 Pinzgauer 712 and one will be
perfect for intentions.
(5) In Europe they are slowly changing the laws, where in the old
inner circle of older cities one need to have practically a
pollution free vehicle ( 2 years old or less) or have an electrical
vehicle.
So far this has started great and I welcome any other help - until
we define exactly all the components/models that I need and can
start placing orders.
Greetings to everybody and THANK YOU SOOOO MUCH FOR YOUR HELP.
Jacques
> G'day Jacques, and All
>
> At 11:35 AM 5/01/07 +0100, Jacques Miller wrote:
>>Hi,
>><snip>
>>I cannot afford to keep changing the setup over, or go from one
>>idea to another, especially that I will probably have to order
>>everything in the USA, adding transport costs and import fees.
>>My questions are:
>>(1) I would like to swap my gasoline engine for an electrical
>>engine - but according to the laws in my country I cannot be over
>>or under of 90 Hp and 185 Newton Meter torque.
>
> There is a European distributor for Siemens electric vehicle
> traction
> systems, I don't recall who, Victor, I believe you work with/know
> of them?
> The Siemens range should allow you to select a suitable system and
> program
> it to be exactly the torque stated. The electric system will
> probably have
> much less stated horsepower, as the electric is continuous rated
> and the
> petrol engine is rated for its peak. As long as you explain this to
> your
> transport department they should be OK with it.
>
>>(2) I need to have regenerative braking working on it.
>
> AC is the most straight-forward way to go, there are very few DC
> systems
> available with regenerative braking, unless you can get a system
> from a
> Berlingo or similar that matches your power requirements. One
> option may be
> to find a bent Berlingo or other european EV that would provide
> most of
> your system components.
>
>>(3) I need to run an electrical vacuum pump to assist my brakes
>>(mandatory)
>
> Simple enough.
>
>>(4) The truck is right now running on 24 volt system
>
> Not insurmountable, the Siemens AC systems have a built-in DC/DC
> converter,
> but they are mostly 12V, but they may do 24V. Apart from that, 24V
> is a
> common industrial voltage, so a suitable DC/DC converter would be
> available
> from Vicor or some other manufacturer.
>
>>(5) Right now maximum possible speed of this truck is 60 mph, due
>>to gearbox and portal axes. (6 time independant suspension on
>>portal axes)
>
> AC drives mostly rev a lot higher, so you may find you need to
> limit your
> top speed for safety, unless there is a drive system that does not
> rev so
> high.
>
>>(6) I want to keep my original manual gearbox
>
> That is standard practice.
>
>>(7) I would love to have a range of 250 miles at max 60 mph.
>
> That is a tough one, but enough Euros should take care of it.
> Lithium
> batteries would probably do it (Finland electric vehicles have a
> lot of
> experience with this). Your battery weight precludes anything else
> except
> maybe Sodium-Sulphur, if you can manage to get one. If you are
> short of
> funds you may have to limit your range significantly initially to
> get the
> vehicle done, run it on lead-acid batteries for a year or two, then
> upgrade
> the battery pack and add the management system. I cannot see your
> transport
> department caring if you change battery chemistry, as long as you
> do not
> change the weight.
>
>>(8) I wish to install on the roof solar panels to help increase
>> the
>>range. Surface = 2 yards by 5 yards
>
> Feel free to install on the roof of your house, but on the roof of
> your
> truck you are likely to get about an extra two to four kilometer
> for a
> sunny day. This is due to 10m2, 10kw of sun, solar panels 20%
> efficient,
> 2kW if ideally aligned, laid flat maybe 800watts for the middle
> couple of
> hours of the day, maybe 2kWh per day.
>
>>(9) For loading purposes the electrical hoop up in Europe are 220
>>V/230 V 50 Hz.
>
> Brusa and many other chargers are made in Europe, but that doesn't
> stop you
> getting one from USA.
>
>>(10) I can, if need be, install 1,500 Lbs to 2,000 Lbs worth of
>>batteries weight.
>
> 40 to 50km range on lead-acid batteries.
>
>>Any help in this matter is really gratefully appreciated. This is
>>the start of this thread of info request and I hope I can keep you
>>all updated how my project comes along.
>
> Jacques, there are about 1000 people from all over the world
> subscribed to
> this list, you are in the best place to learn of EVs. You may be
> better
> served to convert a small vehicle - a 2WD truck or van or a car as
> a
> learning exercise, unless you have plenty of Euros, as your
> ambition is
> pretty high and expensive. Ask questions, network your potential
> suppliers
> - you should be able to get all you need from European suppliers.
> And have
> some fun as you go along.
>
> Hope this helps
>
> Regards
>
> [Technik] James
> (in Australia)
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike Chancey wrote:
"Please give me some ideas here"
Hi Mike,
It's been a while since your original post on this
thread but hopefully this reply can still be of
assistance. Its brief in case you've already acted,
but I'd be happy to provide more info if you'd like.
Please be sure to CC: such request to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] as I have not been reviewing the
EVDL on a regular basis of late.
Roy and Russ are referring to my 94' Geo Ev that is on
the photo album.
The Geo is running @ 144v - 12 Deka 9A31 Intimidators
(Group 31 AGMs, 100 ah c/20). 8 of the 12 are on their
sides and the remaining 4 are standing upright.
The Geo's charging system includes a new Russco SC
24-120 charger which provides the bulk of the charge.
12 Soneil 1206cc 3 amp chargers provide the finshing
charge to each battery.
The 12v 3 amp Soneils are compact and lightweight as
they are free of built-in fan, motor, and on/off
switch in contrast to higher power models. Thus they
are easily installed on vertical surfaces up and out
of the way of valuable storage space in a small EV.
The inputs of all 12 are simply plugged into 2 power
strips whose inputs are also connected together to one
plug behind the gas cap filler door. Roy gets the
credit for coming up with the idea for the
installation spatial arrangement of the Soneils:
all 12 are inside the Geo in the back right under the
hatchback: 6 on the left, 6 on the right, on two
vertical surfaces. At some point the photos will be
updated to reflect this and other upgrades.
One of the nice features of the Russco is that the
user can easily dial-in the battery finishing voltage.
I'v been setting the RUssco to shut-down when the pack
voltage reaches around 165-168 volts or 13.75-14 volts
per cell. Then the Soneils are plugged in and reach
float stage in about an hour.
The 12 Soneils together draw a max. of 7.4 amps from a
120v outlet.
One thought was since you already have the Zivan, you
could ask Zivanusa to recalibrate it to finish at a
lower voltage. Thus allowing the Soneils to serve as
your finishing chargers.
Regards,
Mark Freidberg
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David Dymaxion wrote:
That's awesome, thanks for putting that up. One small quibble: The home page says
"Our Best ET Ever! 12.8"
Has the killacycle ever run that slow? :) On a more serious note, I think the
"12.8" is a bit of stray html.
Actually, 12.8 is the date that article was posted. December 8th. The
quick date format was definitely misleading for Bill's entry so I
changed the date format to any prevent further confusion.
I've seen the KillaCycle go slower but that is ancient history.
Thanks,
-Dave Stensland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have been asked about converting a 1999 Ford Tahoe that has 4 wheel drive
and a auto matice transmission ... They are not looking for long range . My
first though was to get rid of the auto tranny and strip out the 4 wd stuff
,,, but they would like to keep the 4wd , which kind of means keeping the
tranny ,,, the tranny also has a low low gear , which would be good for the 4
wd and deep show ,,, Right now the plan is for a 11" net gain and 2k 300v zilla
,,, the 2100 ( 75lbs ) hawker oddessey batteries , as many as i can get in
there. Any heads up info on the ....
Steve Clunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi EVers,
Happy New Year!
We have been very busy installing our new pack of High Power 100 amp-hr
Kokams and I have not been able to keep up with the EV list. The pack is now
in and we have posted a write up and lots of pictures on the website. Go to
ProEV.com, then Electric Imp Project, Work History. Scroll down to
'...Upgrading to Kokam High Power cells."
We competed with the new pack last weekend at the SCCA South Atlantic Road
Racing Championship (SARRC) race at Moroso Motorsports Park. We ran a 30+
mile race and finished in 2nd place! It was a great weekend.
We were very conservative for the pack's first outing as we were testing a
number of new systems. We limited amps to 400 in qualifying and 300 in the
race and used only 28 kWhrs from the 35 kWhr pack. We averaged 72 mph around
the track, reaching 111 mph on the straight-aways.
The Kokam cells were great. Despite the usual Florida 85 degree heat and 95%
humidity, the pack stayed within the proper temperature range.
We got lots of good in-car video footage, still pictures and data which will
be going up on the website within the next month. We do not have RSS in
place but you can sign up on our mailing list to get notifications when new
info is posted. http://www.proev.com/C3MList.htm
Our next outing is Battery Beach Burnout on January 26-27. I look forward to
seeing everybody there.
Cliff
www.ProEV.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Steve,
My EV had a TH 350 automatic in it back in 1975. It was in standard mode
and not modified. This means there is a idle control which can be control
from the dash with a two position 2 pole double throw rocker switch.
This switch control a solenoid with a throw of about 3/4 inch like the ones
use in a door lock. This solenoid did not push against accelerator lever,
but against a cam that then push against the accelerator lever that had a
idle screw adjustment like a carburetor has.
Another way for idle adjustment, that someone said, is install another 5K
pot in series with the accelerator 5K pot, which can be switch in and out
with a selector switch.
You can then adjust the pot for any idle speed you want. I like this method
and may try it.
The TH-350 GM transmission had only a 2.95:1 1st gear and a 1.75:1 2nd gear,
which was not the right gearing for the weight of the EV. It use a standard
torque converter with a 1.75:1 which lock in at about 1500 rpm.
This gave you a starting ratio of 2.95 x 1.75 = 5.16:1 until you hit 1500
rpm than the ratio reduces back to 2.95.
The only problem with a standard set up you have to idle the motor, so the
automatic pump pressure is up at above 500 rpm so the EV would start moving.
Today you can modified or get a modified automatic, which uses a lower
gears, like the rig you said has. Either use a lock up torque converter or
none at all. A front pump drive shaft mounts directly to the motor coupling
and connects directly to the front pump on the auto.
This eliminates the flex wheel and the torque converter. With this set up
you still need to idle the motor to about 500 rpm, so the automatic pump
will come up to pressure. This can be overcome by install a external 12
volt hydraulic pump with two oil lines going to tap boss on the front of the
automatic pump.
A transmission shop can show you how to do this. The circle track people do
this all the time.
This mod will allow you to start moving a 1 rpm instead of starting to move
at 500 rpm. In this mod, you need to use a transmission with a 1st low low
gear which you already have.
I am going to test out a modified automatic this year to see what happens.
One Source of supply for transmission mod is: www.tci.com
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 7:08 AM
Subject: Ford Tahoe conversion
> I have been asked about converting a 1999 Ford Tahoe that has 4 wheel
> drive and a auto matice transmission ... They are not looking for long
> range . My first though was to get rid of the auto tranny and strip out
> the 4 wd stuff ,,, but they would like to keep the 4wd , which kind of
> means keeping the tranny ,,, the tranny also has a low low gear , which
> would be good for the 4 wd and deep show ,,, Right now the plan is for a
> 11" net gain and 2k 300v zilla ,,, the 2100 ( 75lbs ) hawker oddessey
> batteries , as many as i can get in there. Any heads up info on the ....
> Steve Clunn
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 1/5/07, James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
AC is the most straight-forward way to go, there are very few DC systems
available with regenerative braking, unless you can get a system from a
Berlingo or similar that matches your power requirements. One option may be
to find a bent Berlingo or other european EV that would provide most of
your system components.
You would need two Berlingo drives to provide 66kW peak (90hp), or use
3 and then you can ditch the rest of the transmission and have one
drive per axle (they have built in reduction box and differential
giving top speed of 62mph with 15" wheels). This is a workable
approach since there are plenty of Berlingos available without
batteries.
Those systems come with a 1kW DC-DC converter (12V), and a brake
vacuum pump, and a 3kW 220V charger.
That is a tough one, but enough Euros should take care of it. Lithium
batteries would probably do it (Finland electric vehicles have a lot of
experience with this). Your battery weight precludes anything else except
maybe Sodium-Sulphur.
Something like 4 Zebra batteries will do it. They are available off
the shelf if you have the money.
Mind you, how many laps of your country will you have to do to clock
up 250 miles? :)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'll throw in a farthing: you could hook a physical disconnect up to
your e-brake lever/pedal as well.
--
Martin K
Rush wrote:
> Roger wrote-
>
>> By the way does anybody have a big red panic button on the dash?
>>
>>
>
> Yup a lot of people do...
>
> Although it is not always red, or a button.
>
> Usually it is just a wire that is connected to a BIG circuit breaker, either
> a Heinemann
> http://www.evparts.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=1070&product_id=1451or
> Airpax. If your controller fails on or if your foot falls asleep and you
> accidentally hit the gear shift and jam your foot on the accelerator, all you
> have to do is yank the wire and the circuit breaker interrupts the power from
> the battery pack to the controller.
>
> So the circuit breaker serves a dual purpose -1) it acts as a big red panic
> button and 2) a circuit breaker to interrupt the power.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Rush
> Tucson AZ
> www.ironandwood.org
> www.Airphibian.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 1/4/2007 1:33:30 PM Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> But some people object to the "click-clack" every time you press and
release
> the accellerator. An alternative that's almost as good is to put a switch
on
> the brake pedal that drops the contactor each time you step on the brakes.
> That's the second thing a driver is likely to do in an emergency.>>>
That's what I did.... I placed a "load shed" relay in the contactor
energizing circuit. Cuts everything off when the brake lights go on.
Matt Parkhouse
Colorado Springs, CO
BMW m/c-Golf Cart trike - 48 volts, 30mph on the flat, 35 mile range
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 1/4/2007 2:50:31 PM Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Wouldn't it be possible to build a circuit that:
Disables the contractor whenever the brake lights come on AND there is
current (or voltage) on the motor? Wouldn't that clearly indicate the
drivers desire to stop even though there seems to be power delivered to
the motor?
Somebody able to draw up a quick circuit?
Michaela
That's the "load shed" relay business.... Such a relay is a "reverse" relay
- it OPENS when power is applied to the triggering circuit in it. It's
normally used to shut down car "extra" powered circuits, like headlights, radio
and so on when you turn the key to start. As soon as the engine (ICE)
catches,
the key is turned back and the relay closes again. Got mine from a surplus
place at $3.50 each....
Matt Parkhouse
Colorado Springs, CO
BMW m/c-Golf Cart trike - 48 volts, 30mph on the flat, 35 mile range
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> We got lots of good in-car video footage, still pictures and data
which will
> be going up on the website within the next month. We do not have RSS in
> place but you can sign up on our mailing list to get notifications
when new
> info is posted. http://www.proev.com/C3MList.htm
>
> Our next outing is Battery Beach Burnout on January 26-27. I look
forward to
> seeing everybody there.
>
> Cliff
> www.ProEV.com
>
YouTube those videos!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mitsubishi has a four wheel motor car under development. Due out in 2010.
For now about the only thing I can think of is Forklift wheel motors. About
200 pounds each. Maybe more. 15 to one ratio. Lawrence Rhodes I have two
you can have if you strip off the motors. Lawrence Rhodes.........
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ah, you're right, didnt consider motor back emf. There are of course
ways around that but now we're getting increasingly complicated so
I'll let it go :)
Thanks
On 1/4/07, Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Peter,
The diagram was unreadable due to the mix of tabs and spaces
so I fiddled with it replacing all tabs until it looked OK,
hope this is what you intended to send (see below).
This circuit will measure the voltage across the motor, which
can mean that as long as the motor is turning (the car is not
at a standstill) there may be a voltage *generated* by the
motor if there is residual magnetism in it, so this can
defeat the purpose, by tripping the safety detect ALWAYS when
you are moving and start braking. Better simply drop the
contactor with a micro-switch in such a situation.
I am afraid this is not a very reliable way to detect that
a large current is going through the motor.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Peter Gabrielsson
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 8:07 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Unsafe Controllers - Question ...
On 1/4/07, Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> No! do NOT build this circuit, as you are interconnecting
> pack voltage and 12V aux battery voltage, which is wired
> to chassis ground. With this circuit, it would become
> dangerous to touch your batteries or charge them through
> most chargers, as they may connect the grid voltage to the
> outside of the car.
It just needs some refinement, stick an optocoupler between the motor
controller and relay like this:
+Bat____________________
| |
X _
X 10k /M\
Relay__ X \_/
| _|_ |
\| ~ \ / |
/| _V_ |
| | |
___ | |
_ | |
| |
| |
contr M ______|_______________|
It may of corse need some more transistors on the output to drive the relay.
-peter
--
www.electric-lemon.com
--
www.electric-lemon.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A way to acheive this is to have an outer ring gear and
multiple smaller motors that drive the ring gear
jerryd wrote:
several smaller motors are going to be less efficient
than a single one.
Yes; but perhaps not enough less efficient to matter. A 2.5hp golf cart
motor is around 75% efficient, and a 10hp ADC around 80% efficient. So
using four golf cart motors costs you 5% in efficiency (a 5% loss in range).
There was a fellow (I forget his name) that had an old pickup truck with
a blown engine. He made an adapter plate to mount four golf cart motors,
with gears on each to mesh with the starter ring gear on the flywheel.
He piled some used batteries in the bed, made a contactor controller,
and drove it around the farm. Crude, but it worked fine!
Maybe one could find a gear reducer that would bolt onto a golf cart
motor, and mount one to each of the four wheels in a vehicle?
A possible solution is in old VW Vans used a 2-1 gear
in it's trailing axle rear like the Hummvee
I think these were only 0.8:1, i.e. they only reduced the speed 20%.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roger Johnsonbaugh wrote:
I may be speaking out of turn here, but it seems like everyone is
trying to find a neater and sweeter solution to this issue and these
solutions are only making the system more complicated and prone to
failure. Wouldn't it be better to keep it simple?
Yes; simple is good. However, in safety systems, it is common to create
a "house of cards" arrangement, where removing any card causes the whole
thing to tumble. This is how you make fail-safe systems, where all
failures lead to a "safe" conclusion rather than a dangerous one.
Accelerator at zero, controller off.
That's what Curtis recommends for their controller. Simple and safe, but
people worry about the contactor switching on/off every time they
operate the accellerator pedal (it doesn't bother the contactor; only
the driver).
Brake lights on, controller off.
That's what I chose to do on my latest EV, only because the potbox I had
didn't have the microswitch on it.
By the way does anybody have a big red panic button on the dash?
I had an Anderson Emergency Disconnect on my ComutaVan; it is a "big red
button". To "start" it, you turn on the key and push the red button
down. It latches (held by a solenoid), and allows power to the motor and
controller.
If any fault condition occurs (motors fails to turn off, motor
overheats, motor overspeeds, etc.) then the solenoid turns off, and the
Emergency Disconnect turns off.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Death to All Spammers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> YouTube those videos!
I've seen 750+ downloads for a video uploaded two weeks ago. Actually,
750+ total spread across three videos that are diff. versions of the
same subject (identical key words, same length)
HINT. YouTube displays a "screenshot" from each upload. Not sure how it
selects what image but the three versions ended up "captured" as a
close-up of a (segway) wheel, a mug shot of some old guy and the third
an upperbody and head shot of a good-looking young woman, nicely
dressed and wearing a bike helmet. "*Her*" copy of the three vids gets
about 80% of the hits <smile>
So yah, if anyone has more EV content to upload, it'd be fun if EVers
stuffed this video ballot box.
tks
Lock
Toronto
human-electric
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I believe the Tahoe is a GM product. The Expedition would be the equivalent
Ford. Either way, they are both built on the corresponding pickup truck
chassis, so a manual tranny from a pickup should be an easy swap. You
should be able to beef it up to carry a lot of batteries. Didn't know deep
snow was a problem in Florida :)
Dave Davidson
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Ford Tahoe conversion Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 9:08:04 -0500
I have been asked about converting a 1999 Ford Tahoe that has 4 wheel
drive and a auto matice transmission ... They are not looking for long
range . My first though was to get rid of the auto tranny and strip out the
4 wd stuff ,,, but they would like to keep the 4wd , which kind of means
keeping the tranny ,,, the tranny also has a low low gear , which would be
good for the 4 wd and deep show ,,, Right now the plan is for a 11" net
gain and 2k 300v zilla ,,, the 2100 ( 75lbs ) hawker oddessey batteries ,
as many as i can get in there. Any heads up info on the ....
Steve Clunn
_________________________________________________________________
Type your favorite song. Get a customized station. Try MSN Radio powered
by Pandora. http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001
--- End Message ---
