EV Digest 6289
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) NPR sound clip of the day
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: DCP 600 quirk question
by "Erik Bigelow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Contactor Wiring
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Clutchless Shifting Video
by "Arthur W. Matteson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) DCP controller availablity?
by Mark Ward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: a way to lower aerodynamic drag
by Tony Hwang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: speedometer problem
by "Chris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Citroen GS updates
by Eduardo Kaftanski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Hijack this thread? :) was Re: $500-million for battery R&D
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: DCP 600 quirk question
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: [EV] RE: chargers
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: contacter and circuit breaker
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Contactor Wiring
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: PWM Module for fan
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Who Killed the Electric Car
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Who Killed the Electric Car
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: precharge question
by [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dana Havranek)
18) Re: Who Killed the Electric Car
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: PFC charger question
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: DCP 600 quirk question
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: [EV] RE: chargers
by "Ev Performance (Robert Chew)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: [EV] Re: [EV] RE: chargers
by Eduardo Kaftanski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Hub motor 72 volt speed test video from UK
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: DCP 600 quirk question
by "Jerald" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Who Killed the Electric Car
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
26) EV, Atom? on PBS Science Investigator stonight 8pm est
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Hub motor 72 volt speed test video from UK
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: [EV] RE: chargers
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I was listening to NPR (National Public Radio) Monday night, and heard
a program called sound clips. I thought, "How cool would it be if
those of you, my car isn't working at this point :( , who drive EVs
daily submitted the sound of their EVs." In describing why this
is such a great sound you could mention a myriad of things. What
publicity if they play the sound. It would be cool to be able to
hear the sound of a contactor controller, the whine of the Curtis, and
the silence of the Zilla. Just a thought.
Brian
---- Msg sent via USU WebMail - http://webmail.usu.edu/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the advice! A couple comments mixed in below:
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Tim Gamber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: DCP 600 quirk question
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 22:41:25 -0700
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Im not sure about this as much as you, but it may be your potentiometer...
It may not be the right format for the controller. some controllers require
hal effect potentiometers of 0-5k or 5-0k check what you controller reqires.
If thats not it there may be something wrong with the pot itself it.
The Raptor I'm using (maybe all) have an inductive sensor. Maybe it's
the source of the problem, I don't know!
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 06:39:50 -0800 (PST)
From: Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: DCP 600 quirk question
Erik, I have two theories.
1) Have you done the throttle calibration? You
disconnect the motor, and adjust a pot on the
controller. I can send you a copy of the manual if
you give me your fax number. The bottom line is that
the controller response will evenly match the travel
of your accelerator, so that max throttle makes a
yellow idiot light come on.
2) Granted Raptor 600s use the inductive throttle,
but just curious: are you using a potbox? If so,
perhaps your potbox has been worn so significantly
that you're getting erratic values.
Next would be to send it in to Peter Senkowski,
manufacturer 707.350.0156, and either have him check
it out, or give you an upgrade to a Raptor 1200.
Hope that helps,
I forgot to mention, I have done the thottle calibration. When the car
is acting up, the yellow "floored" indicator does not come on. After
it warms up and has full power, flooring the accelerator does make the
"floored" light come on.
From: Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Raptor problrm
To: List EV <[email protected]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
For any and all Raptor problems call Peter Senkowski 707-350-0156 Email is
>nosmokin at earthlink.net but you will fight with spam protction. He seems to
>prefer the phone.
Thanks Storm, I'll have to give him a call if I don't uncover something soon.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Brian,
I am not sure why they have pos and neg terminals, perhaps there is some sort
of magnetic blow out inside. Anyway, I have used these and always wired the
positive terminal on the contactor to the positive supply. So, to answer your
question---No. Wire the "-A2" stud to the negative battery. At least that is
my take on it.
Jeff
"Brian M. Sutin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I've got a seemingly dumb question. I was re-reading the data sheet for
my contactors, Kilovac EV200's, and noticed that the studs are labeled
"+A1" and "-A2". Should I be connecting the "+A1" to the negative battery
pole? I'm not even sure which way the contactors are in at the moment.
The data sheet does not speak to this, except to imply that reverse
polarity is bad.
Brian
Alfa Romeo EV Conversion
http://www/skewray.com/alfa/
--
Brian M. Sutin, Ph.D. Space System Engineering and Optical Design
Skewray Research/316 W Green St/Claremont CA 91711 USA/(909) 621-3122
---------------------------------
Check out the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful email and get
things done faster.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Great video. So you're letting your foot off the "gas" when you go to
shift, right? The car doesn't seem to jerk at all, it's amazing. But I
agree with Darin, sound would be nice to have. I'm able to make videos
with sound with my digital camera without enabling any extra options -
they go into .MOV (QuickTime) format.
I have a 1980 Renault LeCar with a serious vibration problem. There
also seems to be a strange noise when my AC motor's magnetizing current
gets into the uncontrollable range (not enough voltage left), which
appears to be coming from the clutch assembly. I will definitely be
going clutchless within the next year or so.
- Arthur
On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 01:05 -0500, Darin - MetroMPG.com wrote:
> Jay -
>
> Thanks for posting that. For someone who hasn't experienced clutchless
> (& flywheel-less) shifting in an EV before, it's as good an illustration
> as possible about how it works.
>
> Question: is there no sound to go along with the video? Or is that just
> my computer... Would have been nice to also hear what's going on.
>
> cheers-
> Darin
>
> ---
>
> Jay Caplan wrote:
> > Wanted to post my video of how easy shifting is when the clutch and flywheel
> > are completely removed from my EV. We replaced all this with a 2 lb coupling
> > of 2" diameter, eliminating all the angular momentum of the large diameter
> > clutch and flywheel which totalled about 22 lb. This also eliminated the
> > vibration problem with flywheel slightly warped.
> >
> > The car shifts very easily, there is no clutch. Upshifts are at 25 mph from
> > 1st to 2nd, and then into 3rd at 50 mph. Downshifts take a second, if you
> > rev the motor a little it falls right in.
> >
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4soxWBh91pA video
> > http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/727 car description
> >
> > If you aren't racing, think about clutchless.
> > Jay
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am curious if there are any new or rebuilt DCP controllers available. Looks
like a 6 month wait on a Zilla. I got outbid on the last DCP that showed up on
Ebay by a few bucks!
Mark Ward
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The picture on their description pages is copied from that mitsubishi document!
Anyways, I wonder if this would work on hatchbacks, like the Scion xA, since
there's no 45 degree or so sloping rear window and trunk.
- Tony
Matthew Milliron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 21:17:53 -0600,
you wrote:
>
>
>These also sound like vortex generators.
>
>http://www.mitsubishi-motors.com/corporate/about_us/technology/review/e/pdf/2004/16E_03.pdf
>
>They are also used to clean up airflow around the wings of small
>airplanes.
>
>http://www.microaero.com/
>
>
found another place for vortek generators.
http://www.vortekz.com/
Robert Matthew Milliron
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I bought a Motorola Oncore GPS unit on ebay for $18 and added an lcd
screen, then fitted that to my motorbike when it's speedo failed.
There are a lot of resources out there to help you to connect an LCD
screen to a gps unit to read just the standard old NMEA messages.
In the main NMEA message are the location, speed, time and altitude
data fields.
I think i can still find the code, which is for a PIC 16$84. Or maybe
you could pick up a cheap satnav unit and just use that ?
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Doug Jackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I have a 1999 Solectria Force. It is based on a 1999 Geo Metro.
>
> I just finished replacing the original gearbox because it had been
> totally trashed by prior owners. The replacement went well
except...
> the new stock Solectria Gearbox does not have a fitting for a
> mechanical speedometer cable. So I now have to convert to
electronic.
>
> So far I seem to have a couple of ideas. I really would like to
keep
> the speedometer and odometer functions.
>
> One could involve the Brusa AMC325 Controller. According to the
> User's manual, pin 22 in the control cable provides a 'mileage
> indicator (1 impulse/100m)'. I suspect that there is a way to
> utilize this but I haven't the knowledge to figure it out.
>
> I could also possibly use one of those magnetic pickups that
attach
> to the drive shaft.
>
> Anybody have any other ideas? A contact for somebody who could
help
> would be great.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I made a huge score today in the form of a Citroen CX hidraulic pump and a
bellhousing. The pump is specially good because its not moved bu a belt but
has a direct rubber/metal connection to a shaft, so its ideal for the motor
I bought to move it.
The bellhousing is also a very nice thing to have, as I now can mockup the motor
adapter without taking my ICE or transmission out.
Pictures at http://ev.nn.cl/
--
Eduardo K. | Some say it's forgive and forget.
http://www.carfun.cl | I say forget about forgiving just accept.
http://e.nn.cl | And get the hell out of town.
| Minnie Driver, Grosse Point Blank
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I wonder how much of a hi-jacking the editorial folks at the Globe &
Mail might suffer?... seems anyone can add comments. <wink wink, nudge
nudge>
I added:
"lock hughes, from Toronto, Canada wrote:
D J from vancouver Canada writes: Hi Jeremy,
I want to buy electric! Where and what can I buy now? What does the
future look like for electric vehicles?
You can roll yer own today:
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/
Closer to home:
http://www.veva.bc.ca/";
Posted 09/01/07 at 7:33 PM EST
URL again to Cato's Globe & Mail Q&A:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070109.wcatolive09/CommentStory/#comment553650
or tinyURL here:
http://tinyurl.com/y53zaf
tks
Lock
human-electric hybrid
--- "Darin - MetroMPG.com" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Interesting, Lock. Thanks.
>
> Also interesting, further down in that article is this question
> submitted by a reader:
>
> > D J from vancouver Canada writes:
> > Hi Jeremy,
> > I want to buy electric! Where and what can I buy now? What
> > does the future look like for electric vehicles?
>
> Neat!
>
> His answer: Look at the ZENN car, or wait for battery tech/economics
> to
> mature. (Ironically, he omits the Vancouver-built "IT" NEV, a
> competitor to the ZENN.) The writer, a dyed in the wool
> "traditional"
> auto journalist, predicts the world will run on electric cars by the
> time he retires if battery issues are resolved.
>
> Darin
>
> ---
>
> Lock Hughes wrote:
> > Seen here:
> >
>
http://www.globeauto.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070109.wcatolive09/GAStory/specialGlobeAuto/home
> > or tinyURL here:
> > http://tinyurl.com/yd488z
>
> > auto makers have asked Washington, D.C. for $500-million for
> > battery research and development.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Erik,
Have you checked the 10-pin connector for the various signal wires?
It might be corroded or have loose wires.
Ralph
Erik Bigelow writes:
>
> Thanks for the advice! A couple comments mixed in below:
>
> > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > From: "Tim Gamber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: RE: DCP 600 quirk question
> > Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 22:41:25 -0700
> > Mime-Version: 1.0
> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
> >
> > Im not sure about this as much as you, but it may be your potentiometer...
> > It may not be the right format for the controller. some controllers require
> > hal effect potentiometers of 0-5k or 5-0k check what you controller reqires.
> > If thats not it there may be something wrong with the pot itself it.
>
> The Raptor I'm using (maybe all) have an inductive sensor. Maybe it's
> the source of the problem, I don't know!
>
>
> > Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 06:39:50 -0800 (PST)
> > From: Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Subject: Re: DCP 600 quirk question
> >
> > Erik, I have two theories.
> > 1) Have you done the throttle calibration? You
> > disconnect the motor, and adjust a pot on the
> > controller. I can send you a copy of the manual if
> > you give me your fax number. The bottom line is that
> > the controller response will evenly match the travel
> > of your accelerator, so that max throttle makes a
> > yellow idiot light come on.
> > 2) Granted Raptor 600s use the inductive throttle,
> > but just curious: are you using a potbox? If so,
> > perhaps your potbox has been worn so significantly
> > that you're getting erratic values.
> >
> > Next would be to send it in to Peter Senkowski,
> > manufacturer 707.350.0156, and either have him check
> > it out, or give you an upgrade to a Raptor 1200.
> >
> > Hope that helps,
>
> I forgot to mention, I have done the thottle calibration. When the car
> is acting up, the yellow "floored" indicator does not come on. After
> it warms up and has full power, flooring the accelerator does make the
> "floored" light come on.
>
>
> > From: Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Subject: Raptor problrm
> > To: List EV <[email protected]>
> > MIME-Version: 1.0
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ascii
> > Content-Disposition: inline
> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
> >
> > For any and all Raptor problems call Peter Senkowski 707-350-0156 Email is
> > >nosmokin at earthlink.net but you will fight with spam protction. He seems
> > to >prefer the phone.
>
> Thanks Storm, I'll have to give him a call if I don't uncover something soon.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Eduardo Kaftanski wrote:
Can I charge 48 or 72V from 220V 10A? So -- a straight 'bad-boy'
will not work. There is need for current limiting or voltage
reduction or both.
I can get medium sized (15 amp) 220 to 110 autotransformers
easily (we use them a lot for grey market US appliances)
Would that make my charger easer to build?
Yes. Anything that reduces the voltage difference between your batteries
and the AC line voltage makes the job easier. Even a resistor can do it,
but that wastes a lot of energy. A transformer, inductor, or capacitor
is better because they don't burn up the voltage difference as heat.
Assuming you can get these autotransformers cheap enough, you can build
a 220vac-to-48vdc charger with two of them. Use the first one to step
220vac down to 110vac. Use the second one to step 110vac down to 55vac
(transformers don't care if you run their windings at reduced voltage).
A full-wave bridge on the resulting 55vac output will give you 77vdc,
which is just about perfect for charging 60v worth of batteries. You can
"bump" the voltage a little higher or lower if the autotransformers have
taps to allow something other than a 2:1 ratio (for example, if it has
taps for 200/220/240vac).
But the *easiest* solution is to just find a used commercial battery
charger for a 48v or 72v pack.
I have not ordered batteries yet and can switch to 12 volts SCS200s
if that makes it cheaper to charge. I can buy the whole set of batteries
for the price of the charger!
SCS200s generally don't last long in EV service. They aren't built for
high currents, and don't have a very long cycle life for deep discharges.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Erik Bigelow wrote:
I have one contactor between the B+ and controller. The charger
I'm going to install will have GFCI, but is not isolated. The GFCI
will be a generic catchall for shocks from leaks to ground right?
Right.
In the wet motor case the GFCI would just obnoxiously trip every
time I reset it until the motor was dry, right? So even without
the second contactor to completely separate the battery pack, I'll
be safe, but perhaps annoyed.
Correct. But you may soon find this to be very annoying. There will be
times when you have a ground fault, don't know where it is, and can't
charge until you find it! This is especially likely in wet weather, or
with flooded batteries.
Is there any trouble with two GFCI circuits in series?
Usually not, but sometimes one will interfere with the other so you get
more nuisance trips. Every device on the line adds a little more leakage
current. Having more devices means more frequent trips.
what would it take to plug your car in and feel safe plugging it in
standing in the rain?
Everyone tends to make their own decision on what is "safe enough".
For me, I have an isolation transformer *and* a GFCI. They would both
have to fail for there to be a problem. Where safety is concerned, I
prefer belt-and-suspenders solutions.
Since my charger isn't isolated, if only the charger has a GFCI
there could still be a leak from the plug to the body. The charger
GFCI could trip, but the plug itself is upstream of that and
someone could get shock by touching it. Paranoid or sensible?
Correct; the GFCI only protects things *after* it. You could still get a
shock from the cord you use to plug the charger into the wall.
In my case, the GFCI is in the receptacle in my garage, so the cord
itself is also protected. Present building codes require this anyway;
any outlets outside the house are supposed to be GFCI protected.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Brian M. Sutin wrote:
I've got a seemingly dumb question. I was re-reading the data sheet for
my contactors, Kilovac EV200's, and noticed that the studs are labeled
"+A1" and "-A2". Should I be connecting the "+A1" to the negative battery
pole? I'm not even sure which way the contactors are in at the moment.
The data sheet does not speak to this, except to imply that reverse
polarity is bad.
If a switch or contactor has blowout magnets, or if its contacts are
assymetrically shaped, then they have a preferential polarity for best life.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Paul G. wrote:
> It looks like this got you thinking too Roger :-)
Not as much as you might be giving me credit for ;^>
I have used the DRV-101/102 in coil economisers before, and so it jumped
immediately to mind as the heart of a simple PWM controller for
something like this.
> This falls to the question - what would it take to have affordable
> DC>DC converters in the 60 to 100 amp range? There are issues - input
> voltages, output currents, and small number of customers.
I haven't seen anyone else respond, so I'll offer my opinion that the
biggest issue is the small number of customers. For lower input
voltages, check out Surepower's <http://www.surepower.com/conv.html>
offerings <http://www.surepower.com/pdf/converterflyer.pdf>. At 24V in,
they offer up to 100A @ 12V out, and they have DC/DCs for up to 96V
packs (the higher input voltage models aren't listed, so I'm not sure
what output currents are available).
Curtis has DC/DCs (300W nominal/375W peak; about 27A @ 13.5V peak) for
packs up to 144V
(<http://www.curtisinstruments.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=cDatasheets.dspL
istDS&CatID=5&siteID=1>), which are packaged for the
underhood/automotive environment.
People willing to "roll their own" can certainly start with Vicor
modules, such as the Maxi series for 500W/per module. Use the 300V
nominal input part for packs in the 204-276V nominal range or the 375V
part for packs of 284-314V nominal. Or, look to the MegaMod series for
600W output, using the 150V input part for packs of 114-148V nominal and
the 300V part for 228-296V nominal packs. (My pack voltage ranges are
conservative as they assume the DC/DC remains connected while charging,
etc.) 600W corresponds to about 43A @ 13.8V out.
What's your thought on affordable for something like this? How much
more are you willing to pay for something that is packaged [more]
appropriately for the automotive environment (e.g. a Surepower or Curtis
unit vs an unsealed Todd-style unit)?
Roger.
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--- Begin Message ---
I just watched this movie on DVD for the first time since seeing it in the
theatre. I highly recommend people either buy this video or rent it at their
local Safeway or video store. On my second viewing I did get a lot more out
of it. Also on the DVD is additional footage not shown in the theatre
release. Besides, it is also good for your circulation as it gets your blood
boiling all over again :-)
Roderick Wilde
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.8/621 - Release Date: 1/9/2007
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 5:19 PM
Subject: Who Killed the Electric Car
> I just watched this movie on DVD for the first time since seeing it in the
> theatre. I highly recommend people either buy this video or rent it at
their
> local Safeway or video store. On my second viewing I did get a lot more
out
> of it. Also on the DVD is additional footage not shown in the theatre
> release. Besides, it is also good for your circulation as it gets your
blood
> boiling all over again :-)
>
> Roderick Wilde
>
> Right on Rod! Get at least two copies, one for yur local library,
donate it. I'm gunna put a note and fone no inside saying if you are
interested, you aren't alone. Check us out: your local EAA Chapter, with a E
mail link.Or better yet? Could you put a small "Speech"on the tail end of
the DVD saying the above?
Seeya at BBB
Bob
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.8/621 - Release Date: 1/9/2007
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.8/621 - Release Date: 1/9/07
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Tim.
I had a little itsy bitsy 6 amp 144 volt PWM controller without a precharge
resistor running an accessory motor and it mangled the contacts on the control
relay. It's a hefty relay but the contacts would micro weld together. The
contacts looked like the moon. Sometimes it was really difficult prying the
contacts apart.
I had to install a precharge resistor in the controller circuit.
I could have just smashed it on with a big contactor, but that would not have
been gentle.
Dana
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Tim Gamber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Does anyone know if i need a precharge circuit for a much smaller altrax
> controller? Is it as big a deal as with larger sized controllers?
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Your Space. Your Friends. Your Stories. Share your world with Windows Live
> Spaces. http://discoverspaces.live.com/?loc=en-CA
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bob, my library allows me to put in a sticker that says: Donated by.....
where I put the name of my organization and the email link. They should
allow you to do that much. I wouldn't be hacking into the video though. I
don't want to be visiting you in the gray bar hotel.
Roderick Wilde
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 3:12 PM
Subject: Re: Who Killed the Electric Car
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 5:19 PM
Subject: Who Killed the Electric Car
I just watched this movie on DVD for the first time since seeing it in
the
theatre. I highly recommend people either buy this video or rent it at
their
local Safeway or video store. On my second viewing I did get a lot more
out
of it. Also on the DVD is additional footage not shown in the theatre
release. Besides, it is also good for your circulation as it gets your
blood
boiling all over again :-)
Roderick Wilde
Right on Rod! Get at least two copies, one for yur local library,
donate it. I'm gunna put a note and fone no inside saying if you are
interested, you aren't alone. Check us out: your local EAA Chapter, with a
E
mail link.Or better yet? Could you put a small "Speech"on the tail end of
the DVD saying the above?
Seeya at BBB
Bob
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nope.
You do have the shipped tune up instructions don't you???
They ship with all chargers.
Check polarity.
Check again.
Plug charger output DC into traction pack.
Set amps pot to full CCW or minimum.
Plug in charger to Grid
Flip on Breaker.
Better get Green and flash Red, Then Green only.
Set volt trim to JUST turn off yellow LED.
Add some Amps with the Amps knob.
The Yellow LED should come on as the voltage on the pack rises.
Keep adding volts and amps until you charge your pack to it's peak volts.
On the next cycle it's now set to the peak voltage your pack needs.
Just dial in the amps you want. Wait for the blue LED to come on solid.
Done.
This works for 12 volts to 450 volts.
Your precision will be sloppy on 12 volts.. adjust accordingly. You should
beable to dial in 14.8 to 15 volts with a little practice. On 120 volts you
should beable to dial in 1/2 a volt with ease.
Do not relie on "1/2 a turn and that's good enough" check all your voltage
points with a DVM.
Assume nothing. Test everything.
You really should make sure your pack is fully charged before you series
them all up.
Good idea.. set for 12 volts and then charge all the pairs to 14.8.
14.8 volts and less than 2 amps should work for AGMs as well as floodeds.
When you get all 12 pair sets to this level of charge, then series them up.
You really can't get a good setting on a single 6 volt battery.
Any other questions???
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 8:08 PM
Subject: PFC charger question
> I am getting ready to wire up my traction pack and figured I would test
> out my PFC-30 on an old 12 volt SLI battery before wrecking
> my traction pack.
>
> I've read the instructions and searched the archives for some info and
> found the email I have copied below to which I believe Rich responded,
> Correct.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 11:08 AM
> Subject: PFC20 Charging Questions
> My pack setup is 22 - 6 Volt flooded led acid. (Sam's Stowaway)
>
> 1. I'm doing an equalizing charge first, do I just turn the voltage
> limit
> up and monitor the batteries manually until they hit 7.5v per cell?
>
> Unfortunately while experimenting with the charger I turned the voltage
> pot a number of time in both directions, so I don't know where in its
> range it currently is. Since I am
> experimenting with a 12 volt battery can I turn the pot counter
> clockwise until it wont turn any more and then turn it one full
> rotation in the clockwise direction. Would this qualify as "turning the
> voltage limit up"?
>
> Then once I have the voltage pot set somewhere "up" what do I do with
> the current knob during this equalization charge?
>
> After I am comfortable with this process on my spare SLI should I
> connect my traction pack batteries (6 volt interstate flooded lead
> acid) in pairs and follow this same procedure before wiring up to the
> full 144 volt pack?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Jan 10, 2007, at 10:16 AM, Erik Bigelow wrote:
I forgot to mention, I have done the thottle calibration. When the car
is acting up, the yellow "floored" indicator does not come on. After
it warms up and has full power, flooring the accelerator does make the
"floored" light come on.
There are those here who know - did the DCP have the ability to sense
excess cold and cut amps? If so the problem may be in that system.
One other thought pops into my head because the it happened to the
buyer of the VW Pickup I built (with a rare DCP450.) If the rev limiter
sensor is connected it can cause some strange problems if it starts to
fail. My understanding is that this issue is often related to the wires
leaving the rpm pickup (this won't be obvious by feeling the cable
connection.) You can get some strange effects that seem like amp limits
that come and go. The easy test/fix is to disconnect the rev limiter.
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am assuming that you are thinking of switching to Trojan SCS225's?
If so, don't. I have used them in my car running at 72volts, and my car
weighs 700kg converted with me 800kg. They are totally useless for ev at
this low voltage. Trust me. Unless you are only commuting 10km max and with
little or no hills. Your ev will be very slow. I would go the 6 volt option,
or if you must, 8volts. But don't go those SCS225's or low capacity 12 volt
batteries. You might regret it like i did.
Cheers and sorry for deviating.
On 11/01/07, Eduardo Kaftanski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On Tue, Jan 09, 2007 at 11:36:25PM -0800, Cor van de Water wrote:
> Let's go back and see what Eduardo asked:
>
> Can I charge 48 or 72V from 220V 10A?
>
> So - a straight 'bad-boy' will not work.
> THere is need for current limiting or voltage reduction
> or both.
I can get medium sized (15 amp) 220 to 110 autotransformers
easily (we use them a lot for grey market US appliances)
Would that make my charger easer to build?
I have not ordered batteries yet and can switch to 12 volts SCS200s
if that makes it cheaper to charge. I can buy the whole set of batteries
for the price of the charger!
--
Eduardo K. | Some say it's forgive and forget.
http://www.carfun.cl | I say forget about forgiving just accept.
http://e.nn.cl | And get the hell out of town.
| Minnie Driver, Grosse Point
Blank
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, Jan 11, 2007 at 11:29:08AM +1100, Ev Performance (Robert Chew) wrote:
> I am assuming that you are thinking of switching to Trojan SCS225's?
>
> If so, don't. I have used them in my car running at 72volts, and my car
> weighs 700kg converted with me 800kg. They are totally useless for ev at
> this low voltage. Trust me. Unless you are only commuting 10km max and with
> little or no hills. Your ev will be very slow. I would go the 6 volt option,
> or if you must, 8volts. But don't go those SCS225's or low capacity 12 volt
> batteries. You might regret it like i did.
>
> Cheers and sorry for deviating.
>
No problem. I am very grateful for the insight....
I am only contenplating 8 volts because 6 volts are backordered in
Chile until, at least, two more months, maybe more, and 12 volts
because it may be easier charging them...
I dont think I can get 6 volts in because of weight issues...
--
Eduardo K. | Some say it's forgive and forget.
http://www.carfun.cl | I say forget about forgiving just accept.
http://e.nn.cl | And get the hell out of town.
http://ev.nn.cl | Minnie Driver, Grosse Point Blank
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1721490376015071704&sourceid=zeitgeist
____________________________________________________________________________________
Cheap talk?
Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.
http://voice.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I had some intermittent problems with my DCP600 awhile back I would be
driving along and the controller would quit and the truck would drift to a
stop. After I opened and shut the hood I could restart the controller and
all would be well for miles.
I called the controller's father he advise me to pull the green plug from
the front of the unit and clean it thoroughly with electrical contact
cleaner. That fixed the problem. I'm told that DCP600s that are newer then
mine also have a plug-in control circuit board and that plug requires
cleaning sometimes too.
Hope it helps
Jerald
-----Original Message-----
From: Erik Bigelow [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 9:22 PM
To: ev
Subject: DCP 600 quirk question
Hi all,
I've got a DCP Raptor 600 that I got used, and it has a curious
behavior that I was hoping someone could shed some light on. My car
has trouble waking up many mornings, and sometimes after it's daily
nap while sitting while I'm at work. When my car is acting grumpy it
seems like the usable range of the accelerator pedal is shifted, the
first inch doesn't do much, and the second inch of travel it acts
normal. After 3 or 4 minutes of driving it's back to normal, I can peg
the 400 amp meter in 2nd. Before that, 75 amps and 40 mph is all
flooring the pedal gets me.
I know it sounds like a mechanical problem, somehow the linkage
doesn't have a consistent connection and after a few pedal presses it
works itself out. But today I noticed two things: Listening to NPR
today, which has enough quiet time to hear static from the controller,
pressing very lightly on the pedal made static audible on the radio.
If the linkage was shifting around, it shouldn't make any noise when I
barely touch the pedal.
The real kicker came when I noticed the grumpiness melting away. When
I'm limited to 75 amps cruising in 2nd and 120 in 3rd, I spend the
whole time floored. While I was on a straightaway with the pedal
floored in 2nd, I watched the amps rise from 75 to 200 as I had the
pedal floored. After that the car was back to normal. My guess is that
this usually happens while I'm at a stoplight and I don't notice.
Any ideas? Start saving for a Zilla? Honestly this is the only thing
that's keeping my from putting one of the "Electric" emblems from the
EV Tradin Post on my car. Before it warms up the acceleration is
really pokey after 20 mph.
Thanks!
Erik in Austin
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 1/10/2007 3:20:33 PM Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I just watched this movie on DVD for the first time since seeing it in the
theatre. I highly recommend people either buy this video or rent it at their
local Safeway or video store. On my second viewing I did get a lot more out
of it. Also on the DVD is additional footage not shown in the theatre
release. Besides, it is also good for your circulation as it gets your blood
boiling all over again :-)
Roderick Wilde
I can second this..... I didn't see it in the theaters ( but did do a trail
run on my unfinished and unlicensed three wheeler to get a photo of it and the
marquee). Well worth seeing - I've picked up a lot more detail (like the
"conspiracy" involving the batteries used in the early 1990's Evs) from YOU
good people on this List!
Matt Parkhouse
Colorado Springs, CO
BMW m/c-Golf Cart trike - 48 volts, 30mph on the flat, 35 mile range
Just got a 1972 VW Van for my first "real" EV!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All,
I'm watching the new PBS show Science
Investigators and they I think said they were driving an
electric car that looks like a skeleton style sportscar.
More later after it's on probably 1/2 thru the
show.
Jerry Dycus
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Why is the hub motor on the front wheel? No wonder
they have no traction. Maybe it was much quicker and
easier to integrate it on the front hub, but if it was
on the back they could have the advantage of running
the motor in the most efficient range depending on
speed with gearing. They would also have better
traction with the weight distribution.
I didn't watch the whole video, so maybe they had an
explanation.
Cool bike EV though.
Rod
--- Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1721490376015071704&sourceid=zeitgeist
>
>
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> Cheap talk?
> Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call
> rates.
> http://voice.yahoo.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That is correct with the SCS225's. They are closer to a cranking type of
battery instead of a very deep cycle type. This type of battery has a a
Reserve capacity of 225 minutes at 25 amps.
A 6 volt will have up to Reserve capacity of 540 minutes at 25 amps or 145
minutes at 75 amps. The SCS225 reserve capacity is reduce by about 4 to 1
for 75 amps which is closer to a EV average load.
225 minutes/4 = 58.25 mins.
56.25 mins /60 mins - 0.93 hour
93 hr x 75 amps = 70 ampere-hour
A 6 volt T-145 has a reserve capacity of 145 minutes at 75 amp which reduces
the usable ampere-hour to 181 ah. I am running very low low ratios like
about 20:1, so I can hold this to 40 amps.
My accessory battery is a SCS 225 which must be keep above 70% SOS at all
times. If it was a standard cranking battery, it would have to be at least
80% SOS.
One time I let the SCS 225 discharge to about 55% SOS which is about 10.5
volts. When it reaches that voltage, it will drop very quickly in with
seconds to as low as 4 to 6 volts.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ev Performance (Robert Chew)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 5:29 PM
Subject: Re: [EV] RE: chargers
> I am assuming that you are thinking of switching to Trojan SCS225's?
>
> If so, don't. I have used them in my car running at 72volts, and my car
> weighs 700kg converted with me 800kg. They are totally useless for ev at
> this low voltage. Trust me. Unless you are only commuting 10km max and
> with
> little or no hills. Your ev will be very slow. I would go the 6 volt
> option,
> or if you must, 8volts. But don't go those SCS225's or low capacity 12
> volt
> batteries. You might regret it like i did.
>
> Cheers and sorry for deviating.
>
>
> On 11/01/07, Eduardo Kaftanski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, Jan 09, 2007 at 11:36:25PM -0800, Cor van de Water wrote:
> > > Let's go back and see what Eduardo asked:
> > >
> > > Can I charge 48 or 72V from 220V 10A?
> > >
> > > So - a straight 'bad-boy' will not work.
> > > THere is need for current limiting or voltage reduction
> > > or both.
> >
> > I can get medium sized (15 amp) 220 to 110 autotransformers
> > easily (we use them a lot for grey market US appliances)
> >
> > Would that make my charger easer to build?
> >
> > I have not ordered batteries yet and can switch to 12 volts SCS200s
> > if that makes it cheaper to charge. I can buy the whole set of batteries
> > for the price of the charger!
> >
> >
> > --
> > Eduardo K. | Some say it's forgive and forget.
> > http://www.carfun.cl | I say forget about forgiving just accept.
> > http://e.nn.cl | And get the hell out of town.
> > | Minnie Driver, Grosse Point
> > Blank
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
