EV Digest 6324
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: The 72 Volt question
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Battery Beach Burnout/6th EVer Special Update
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
3) Re: super skinny/hard tires .. thin tyres in the 69 psi
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: The 72 Volt question
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
5) RE: The 72 Volt question question
by "Tim Gamber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Conversion costs never change?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Battery Beach Burnout/6th EVer Special Update
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
8) RE: The 72 Volt question question
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: The 72 Volt question question
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: General Electric EV-1 SCR Control System Analyzer
by "Tim Gamber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Lower price (and available) configurations
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) AC propulsion
by "Tim Gamber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: super skinny/hard tires .. thin tyres in the 69 psi
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Lower price (and available) configurations
by "Tim Gamber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Lower price (and available) configurations
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Quote... Though the EV1 was a resounding flop...
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Battery Beach Burnout/6th EVer Special Update
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
18) Re: The 72 Volt question
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Chevy Volt vote
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
20) Re:Question for nedra
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
21) Re: Battery Beach Burnout/6th EVer Special Update
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Chevy Volt vote
by JS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: super skinny/hard tires .. thin tyres in the 69 psi
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: super skinny/hard tires .. thin tyres in the 69 psi
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: AC propulsion
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) WKTEC Fresno, Ca
by Bruce Williford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) RE: Lower price (and available) configurations
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) RE: Converting a 1974 Plymouth to Electric for 1/4 mile competition
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Mark,
Go to http://www.geocities.com/hempev/EVCalulator.html for this data.
I am using a Warp 9 motor in my EV as a temporary motor while my GE 11 is in
maintainance. This motor is a 28 hp @ 192 volt rated at 199 amp continuous.
The motor amps is about 80 amps with a motor voltage of 60 volts for 35 mph
for a 7200 lb EV with a overall gear ratio of 13.5:1.
This a is about 5500 rpm on my motor in 2nd gear which I do not let it get
higher than that. Shifting into 3rd gear or 5.57:1, the motor volts will
increase to the battery pack volt of 180 volts at 300 amps at 70 mph.
In the EV calculator, choose the ADC motor that is 168 volts and change the
voltage to 192 volts for a Warp 9.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 8:18 AM
Subject: The 72 Volt question
> I am needing to do some testing and Zilla 1Ks are not going to be
> available
> for some time. My question for those of you with some experience with
> different voltage levels is if a 72Volt Alltrax controller would run my
> Warp
> 9 motor on a 2900 pound car at something approximating city driving speeds
> of 35Mph max?
>
> This would be something I could do to iron out many issues, move the car
> around, etc., until I can get the larger unit. There are many things
> that
> will need fabrication yet, like the serpentine belt drive, etc, so I am
> not
> in a major rush, just want to make some progress.
>
> So what is the consensus?
>
> Mark Ward
> 95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
> www.saabrina.blogspot.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 1/20/2007 6:53:31 AM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> Subj: Re: Battery Beach Burnout/6th EVer Special Update
> Date:1/20/2007 6:53:31 AM Pacific Standard Time
> From:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Reply-to:[email protected]
> To:[email protected]
> Received from Internet:
>
>
>
> Shawn and all,
>
> We can't wait to bring the OJ2 to South Florida. We are up here in the
> snow staying warm by working feverishly putting the car back together.
> We should have it sitting on it's wheels by nightfall. Thanks again to
> Bill Dube and his team member Derek for making this happen. This was
> not the path we planned to travel to BB but a last minute save by Bill
> and A123. My original plan had our new full sized dragster "Juiced Up"
> at the race next week but as they say &*%$ happens. It's current
> state has the dual siamese 9 inchers at Jim Husted's shop, 2 of the 4
> Zillas still on Otmars bench, it's many battery cells still in
> Singapore and it's rather empty chassis up on the wall. Power of DC in
> June looks like a reality for "Juiced Up" but there was just no way to
> make BB. So we pulled the old OJ2 off the wall, decided to fit her
> with 8 new Lemco's, a brand new 2K Zilla, and 120 Dewalt 36 Volt tool
> batteries. When it got to crunch time the Dewalt deal fizzled. Plan B
> was to buy the cells direct from A123 and weld them up for the race.
> That requires $16K for the cells, thousands of spot welds, many hrs,
> and a $20K welder. Just too much to do in the remaining time and too
> much cash for one night of racing. Plan C was 60 pcs of Deka 14's
> fresh from the factory. Proven performance and lots of power but too
> much weight for the 8 Lemco's to shove down the track in the single
> digits. So in the end it is Plan D (for Dube) that is going to add
> some excitement to our trip to Jupiter next week. That's the story.
> Hope to see you all there.
>
> Shawn Lawless
Well Shawn 4 2Khv zillas thats about 3200hp for a short time.That should
easily take CEs record where we had 228hp and only ran 8.801.With that kind of
hp
you should run very low 5s.JIM make those 9s stout!! OJ should do very well
also at the BBB with all of BDs 123s.With that much hp BD should be running at
least hi 7s with the killacycle,so I will expect mid 8s from OJ. Have
Fun/Drive Strait/Leave on the Green!! Dennis Berube
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thin, super hard, tires have less rolling resistance...as long as you only
drive on flat roads with no rocks, gravel, potholes, etc.
In the real world you want the tires to give a little when going over
small bumps so that you don't have to waste energy moving the whole
suspension (or worse, whole vehicle) up.
Making something move requires energy, that energy has to come from
somewhere.
Also, unless the tires are designed for high pressure, over-inflating them
will cause them to round out on the bottom and you will get excessive wear
on the middle of the tread and have to replace you tires more frequently.
>
> I believe the first vehicles had hard rubber. This model is close to it at
> 60 plus pounds on skinny tire. My OEM electric vehicle is recommended to
> be
> inflated to 50 pounds cold.
>
> Don
>
> In a message dated 1/19/2007 7:25:08 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> http://www.milburn.us/docs/27_instr-08.jpg
> shows that tyre pressure was to be 69 psi
> pic shows tyres which are rather thin
>
> tyres in my ICE need 26 to 30 psi only ..
>
> maybe thin and high pressure tyres will help
> reduce tyre resistance .. and with much improved
> suspension systems in place, the shocks will not
> get to the people
>
> ..peekay
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>
>> The electric cars in early part of last century had rolling drag closer
>> to
>> train rails. Super skinny tires hard tires that did not hold air. We do
> have
>> far better roads today though.
>>
>> Don
>
>
>
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am told an Altrax especially the 450 amp version should work well. That is
what I am planning on using and I received the information directly from
Netgain the seller of Warp motors.
via Treo
David Hrivnak
-----Original Message-----
From: "Mark Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subj: The 72 Volt question
Date: Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:36 am
Size: 688 bytes
To: <[email protected]>
I am needing to do some testing and Zilla 1Ks are not going to be available
for some time. My question for those of you with some experience with
different voltage levels is if a 72Volt Alltrax controller would run my Warp
9 motor on a 2900 pound car at something approximating city driving speeds
of 35Mph max?
This would be something I could do to iron out many issues, move the car
around, etc., until I can get the larger unit. There are many things that
will need fabrication yet, like the serpentine belt drive, etc, so I am not
in a major rush, just want to make some progress.
So what is the consensus?
Mark Ward
95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Can you put two controllers in series or paralell to double the voltage or
amps that you can run them at?
From: "Mark Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: The 72 Volt question
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 09:18:54 -0600
I am needing to do some testing and Zilla 1Ks are not going to be available
for some time. My question for those of you with some experience with
different voltage levels is if a 72Volt Alltrax controller would run my
Warp 9 motor on a 2900 pound car at something approximating city driving
speeds of 35Mph max?
This would be something I could do to iron out many issues, move the car
around, etc., until I can get the larger unit. There are many things that
will need fabrication yet, like the serpentine belt drive, etc, so I am not
in a major rush, just want to make some progress.
So what is the consensus?
Mark Ward
95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
_________________________________________________________________
Buy what you want when you want it on Sympatico / MSN Shopping
http://shopping.sympatico.msn.ca/content/shp/?ctId=2,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata=081805
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Shanab wrote:
> I think looking for reduced cost in EV conversions is possible but
> not in the DC EV conversions.
Lee Hart replied:
>> Then why are almost all golf carts, forklifts, and other commercially
>> successful EVs using DC systems and lead-acid batteries?
> Great point!, I wonder if maybe it is because the requirements for
> golfcarts and forklifts are a better match to lead acid/dc combinations.
> Speed,mileage,weight, etc. Or as I think Lee has pointed out before,
> Tradition and "thats the way it has been done" often are the biggest
> reasons.
I think the DC vs. AC situation is a contest between the "good" and the
"perfect".
Converting an existing ICE vehicle into an EV is an effort to find a "good"
solution. Something that is relatively cheap, easy, and good enough to work as
a daily driver. It is often based on expediency -- one happens to have a car
with a dead engine, finds a used fork lift motor, uses golf cart batteries
because they are easy to get, etc. DC systems fit this perfectly.
Building an EV from scratch is often a major project in search of "perfection".
Cost, availability, or difficulty are not as important as performance.
If you want to produce EVs to sell, then you have decide which of these two
routes to pursue. The golf cart and forklift manufacturers have gone after the
"good" solution; cheap easy EVs that they can sell a lot of.
The auto companies' California EVs, the Tzero, Tesla, Tango, Venturi Fetish,
etc. have pursued the "perfect" solution. For this reason, I don't think any of
them can achieve anything close to mass production. They will sell perhaps a
few hundred cars for collectors and afficionados; but this does nothing for the
mass of drivers who want a "good" daily driver EV.
>> Yes! A paradigm shift. Start over with a blank sheet of paper. And I
>> think it can be done! This is the reason I took on the Sunrise project!
>I wish you all the best on it and can't wait, I wish I could help.
There have been a lot of posts on this recently; I'm reading them, and
struggling to answer! The problem is, I really don't know what would help.
We're sill in the planning stage, so it's hard to rush ahead without a map for
where we're going. More money helps, but not if it creates expectations and
obligations. I desperately want to avoid the disasters that have befallen so
many other EV startups, of taking people's money and then wasting or losing it!
> I do have a quick question about the sunrise: How does a drivetrain and
> suspension get mounted?
This I *can* answer.
The front and rear both use double A arms, with coil springs. They connect to
U-shaped steel box beams. These beams fit into slots inte the composite central
tunnel that holds the batteries and forms the main structural element of the
car. The steel beams provide the "hard point" to handle the stress, and
distribute this load over the large area to the composite chassis.
At present, we are using Ford Mustang II front end parts, as they are widely
available in the custom car and hot rod communities. The rear end parts are
coming from 1995+ Ford Thunderbird or Mercury Cougar. These cars have a central
chassis-mounted differential with half-shafts to the wheels, for which we can
get strong 4.88:1 gears.
The motor mounts behind the differential, and is coupled directly to it with no
clutch or transmission. This assumes a direct drive setup with an AC or 9" DC
motor, but there is room for a VW, Porsche or Corvair style transaxle with a
smaller motor for builders that want to go that route.
--
Lee Hart
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dennis,
Get a plane ticket to Florida. This may be the last hurrah for OJ and
I would really like you to drive it with the 4 wheel drive setup.
I'm thinking anything in single digits next Friday and I'll be happy.
We should get around 240-250 hp to the wheels. I'll have a final
weight tomorrow and we will stick it in the calculator.
It's going to be sort of an educated guess on gearing. Actually in
this case there is no gearing, speed and torque are adjusted by motor
magnet thickness. If we assume 1/2 pack voltage sag we can expect a
top speed of about 135 if we are light enough to get there in time.
Trevor and I really enjoyed the dinner we shared earlier in the month.
If you come to Florida we could do it again.
Shawn
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 11:35 AM
Subject: Re: Battery Beach Burnout/6th EVer Special Update
In a message dated 1/20/2007 6:53:31 AM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Subj: Re: Battery Beach Burnout/6th EVer Special Update
Date:1/20/2007 6:53:31 AM Pacific Standard Time
From:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-to:[email protected]
To:[email protected]
Received from Internet:
Shawn and all,
We can't wait to bring the OJ2 to South Florida. We are up here in
the
snow staying warm by working feverishly putting the car back together.
We should have it sitting on it's wheels by nightfall. Thanks again
to
Bill Dube and his team member Derek for making this happen. This was
not the path we planned to travel to BB but a last minute save by
Bill
and A123. My original plan had our new full sized dragster "Juiced
Up"
at the race next week but as they say &*%$ happens. It's current
state has the dual siamese 9 inchers at Jim Husted's shop, 2 of the 4
Zillas still on Otmars bench, it's many battery cells still in
Singapore and it's rather empty chassis up on the wall. Power of DC
in
June looks like a reality for "Juiced Up" but there was just no way
to
make BB. So we pulled the old OJ2 off the wall, decided to fit her
with 8 new Lemco's, a brand new 2K Zilla, and 120 Dewalt 36 Volt tool
batteries. When it got to crunch time the Dewalt deal fizzled. Plan
B
was to buy the cells direct from A123 and weld them up for the race.
That requires $16K for the cells, thousands of spot welds, many hrs,
and a $20K welder. Just too much to do in the remaining time and too
much cash for one night of racing. Plan C was 60 pcs of Deka 14's
fresh from the factory. Proven performance and lots of power but too
much weight for the 8 Lemco's to shove down the track in the single
digits. So in the end it is Plan D (for Dube) that is going to add
some excitement to our trip to Jupiter next week. That's the story.
Hope to see you all there.
Shawn Lawless
Well Shawn 4 2Khv zillas thats about 3200hp for a short time.That
should
easily take CEs record where we had 228hp and only ran 8.801.With that
kind of
hp
you should run very low 5s.JIM make those 9s stout!! OJ should do very
well
also at the BBB with all of BDs 123s.With that much hp BD should be
running at
least hi 7s with the killacycle,so I will expect mid 8s from OJ. Have
Fun/Drive Strait/Leave on the Green!! Dennis
Berube
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The short answer is NO.
The long answer is. controllers will not work in parallel unless they are
specifically designed to. None of the cheap controllers are designed to
work this way
Basically a controller is just a big on/off switch that turns on/off
thousands of times per second. In order for them to work together they
need to be sychronised so that they turn on/off together.
> Can you put two controllers in series or paralell to double the voltage or
> amps that you can run them at?
>
>
>>From: "Mark Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>Reply-To: [email protected]
>>To: <[email protected]>
>>Subject: The 72 Volt question
>>Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 09:18:54 -0600
>>
>>I am needing to do some testing and Zilla 1Ks are not going to be
>> available
>>for some time. My question for those of you with some experience with
>>different voltage levels is if a 72Volt Alltrax controller would run my
>>Warp 9 motor on a 2900 pound car at something approximating city driving
>>speeds of 35Mph max?
>>
>>This would be something I could do to iron out many issues, move the car
>>around, etc., until I can get the larger unit. There are many things
>> that
>>will need fabrication yet, like the serpentine belt drive, etc, so I am
>> not
>>in a major rush, just want to make some progress.
>>
>>So what is the consensus?
>>
>>Mark Ward
>>95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
>>www.saabrina.blogspot.com
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Buy what you want when you want it on Sympatico / MSN Shopping
> http://shopping.sympatico.msn.ca/content/shp/?ctId=2,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata=081805
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: Tim Gamber
>Can you put two controllers in series or parallel to double the voltage or
>amps that you can run them at?
Sort of; but it's not at all straightforward.
Twin controllers in parallel require separate inductors for each. Sometimes you
can rewire the fields of a motor as two separate inductors to accomplish this.
Twin controllers in series is even more difficult. Each has to be wired across
half the battery. It requres extra contactors, wired so one controller takes
the motor from 0-half voltage, then you switch to the other controller that
takes you from half to full pack voltage. There are also battery balancing
issued; you need to somehow insure that they all charge and discharge equally,
despite the different loads.
I think a better solution is to use a low-voltage full-current controller, plus
a contactor controller for full power. The batteries are arranged as two
half-packs, which are switched in parallel for use with the PWM controller, and
then in series for the contactor controller.
--
Lee Hart
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: General Electric EV-1 SCR Control System Analyzer
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 20:39:37 +1100
G'day All
On Ebay I found a General Electric EV-1 SCR Control System Analyzer.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/General-Electric-EV-1-SCR-Control-System-Analyzer_W0QQitemZ150081641241QQihZ005QQcategoryZ56998QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Price is higher than I'd be interested in paying, but does anyone know what
it does, what is it about the EV-1 does it analyse? (It would appear that
the two terminal blocks on the EV-1 get undone, and this goes in place of
them, and then the connectors plugged into it.)
Might be useful to someone.
Regards
[Technik] James
It looks like its from star trek.
_________________________________________________________________
Your Space. Your Friends. Your Stories. Share your world with Windows Live
Spaces. http://discoverspaces.live.com/?loc=en-CA
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've been thinking about doing a full-size pickup conversion.
(something like a Ford F-250).
Starting out with a Z2K and Dual 11" motors would be nice, but is
awfully expensive, and there is a hefty lead time. ($4500 + 2 * $2950).
I was thinking of a 240V pack using 6V golf cart batteries.
So, say I keep the same pack, but want a cheaper drive setup.
I could use multiple smaller motors, and multiple smaller controllers.
Say, Curtis 1221C + ADC L91-4003, $975 + $840. Thats 400A (max, I
know, derate for continuous) at 120V.
For the price of the Dual Motor Z2K setup, I could get 5 Curtis setups + extra.
I would also need more contactors, multiple potboxes, etc... and
(the hardest part) some kind of belt or chain drive to combine
multiple motor shafts into 1 drive shaft.
Say I went with 4 of the Curtis setups, I could split the pack into 2
120V packs, and hook up 2 curtis controllers to each.
I would be keeping the manual transmission.
Would this kind of setup give reasonable performance in a HEAVY
vehicle? (probably around 7000lbs).
What would 2 of the Curtis setups do in a vehicle like this?
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Has anyone on this list ever bought a AC system from AC propulsion. If so
are they good? Do they come with a charger?
_________________________________________________________________
Dont waste time standing in linetry shopping online. Visit Sympatico / MSN
Shopping today! http://shopping.sympatico.msn.ca
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: Peter VanDerWal
> Thin, super hard, tires have less rolling resistance... as long as you only
> drive on flat roads with no rocks, gravel, potholes, etc. In the real world
> you want the tires to give a little when going over small bumps so that
> you don't have to waste energy moving the whole suspension (or worse,
> whole vehicle) up.
All early 1900's cars used thin, super hard tires... for example, Ford model
T's used 60 psi tires. And roads were terrible! Most were unpaved. Rocks,
gravel, potholes etc. were everywhere. But suspensions had lots more travel (to
make up for the lack of "give" in the tire), and shock absorbers were weak or
nonexistent (no losses there!). People had a lot of flats, though.
--
Lee Hart
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sounds a little complicated to me especially the multiple controller idea
now that i know.
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: "EV Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Subject: Lower price (and available) configurations
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 09:20:30 -0800
I've been thinking about doing a full-size pickup conversion. (something
like a Ford F-250).
Starting out with a Z2K and Dual 11" motors would be nice, but is awfully
expensive, and there is a hefty lead time. ($4500 + 2 * $2950).
I was thinking of a 240V pack using 6V golf cart batteries.
So, say I keep the same pack, but want a cheaper drive setup.
I could use multiple smaller motors, and multiple smaller controllers.
Say, Curtis 1221C + ADC L91-4003, $975 + $840. Thats 400A (max, I know,
derate for continuous) at 120V.
For the price of the Dual Motor Z2K setup, I could get 5 Curtis setups +
extra.
I would also need more contactors, multiple potboxes, etc... and (the
hardest part) some kind of belt or chain drive to combine multiple motor
shafts into 1 drive shaft.
Say I went with 4 of the Curtis setups, I could split the pack into 2 120V
packs, and hook up 2 curtis controllers to each.
I would be keeping the manual transmission.
Would this kind of setup give reasonable performance in a HEAVY vehicle?
(probably around 7000lbs).
What would 2 of the Curtis setups do in a vehicle like this?
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
_________________________________________________________________
http://ideas.live.com/programpage.aspx?versionid=b2456790-90e6-4d28-9219-5d7207d94d45&mkt=en-ca
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 09:27 AM 1/20/2007, Tim Gamber wrote:
Sounds a little complicated to me especially the multiple controller
idea now that i know.
Except in this case the multiple controller setup is done the easy way.
It is not multiple controllers on a single motor. Each controller
has it's own motor, so there is nothing special about the setup.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Responding to your recent article on Bloomberg.com
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&sid=a70odMy4PSuY&refer=home
Holy Electrons Doron!! It is obvious you have 1) never driven an EV1
and 2) never spoke to any one who ever leased one.
Why the Heck do you think all those lease's were out there in the rain
protesting about the loss of their cars if they thought the "car was a FLOP"
It sure wasn't that the car was not FAST enough. It would out DRAG RACE
a Nissan 300ZX !! And for (well only 90%) of the Daily Driving Public
its RANGE per charge was JUST FINE !!!
Sure it was expensive!! But just open any copy of Road and Track, Car
and Driver, Motor Trend, etc... Over Half of all the super cars they
feature and test each and every month are beyond the REACH of the
average American.. ( 600 horse power VIPER !!! Who in the H#@@ needs
that ! Some guy with a small you know what. )
And all the while WARS are being fought to FEED this frenzy, and Mother
Earth her self is suffering...
There are several Lithium batteries out there, which DO NOT have thermal
run away characteristics. GM is working with A123/Cobassy and SAFT as
we speak to test and verify their longevity and safety.
Dalmer/Chrisyler has Plug in Hybrids on the streets right NOW in their
large Sprinter Vans for testing and evaluation.
It's a good thing that your kind of journalism is fading, and more
responsible factual reporting is rising.
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 1/20/2007 9:15:05 AM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> ubj: Re: Battery Beach Burnout/6th EVer Special Update
> Date:1/20/2007 9:15:05 AM Pacific Standard Time
> From:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Reply-to:[email protected]
> To:[email protected]
> Received from Internet:
>
>
>
> Dennis,
>
> Get a plane ticket to Florida. This may be the last hurrah for OJ and
> I would really like you to drive it with the 4 wheel drive setup.
> I'm thinking anything in single digits next Friday and I'll be happy.
> We should get around 240-250 hp to the wheels. I'll have a final
> weight tomorrow and we will stick it in the calculator.
> It's going to be sort of an educated guess on gearing. Actually in
> this case there is no gearing, speed and torque are adjusted by motor
> magnet thickness. If we assume 1/2 pack voltage sag we can expect a
> top speed of about 135 if we are light enough to get there in time.
>
> Trevor and I really enjoyed the dinner we shared earlier in the month.
> If you come to Florida we could do it again.
>
> Shawn
Would love to drive one of your Juicy cars someday but the NHRA Summit points
season starts next sat.at speedworld.So I must avenge my 2nd place for the 06
season starting next weekend. Dennis Kilowatt Berube
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--- Begin Message ---
I personally think you will find this solution quite acceptable. Amps equals
torque so you will have a hair more take off performance than many similar
sized EVs running 400 amp Curtis controllers. Voltage equals RPM in a series
wound motor so you will not see as high a top speed but most likely more
speed than you require. Let us all know how it works out in actual
application. I personally see no problems. I think 72 volt cars make perfect
sense for around town vehicles. It keeps the price of the components down.
Above 72 volts things start getting much more expensive. What is with all
this high voltage/high performance stuff anyway :-) I have even contemplated
a 48 volt around town conversion based on one of the early Honda Civics.
Roderick Wilde
EV Parts, Inc.
www.evparts.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 7:18 AM
Subject: The 72 Volt question
I am needing to do some testing and Zilla 1Ks are not going to be
available for some time. My question for those of you with some
experience with different voltage levels is if a 72Volt Alltrax controller
would run my Warp 9 motor on a 2900 pound car at something approximating
city driving speeds of 35Mph max?
This would be something I could do to iron out many issues, move the car
around, etc., until I can get the larger unit. There are many things
that will need fabrication yet, like the serpentine belt drive, etc, so I
am not in a major rush, just want to make some progress.
So what is the consensus?
Mark Ward
95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Has it really gone up 50,000 in two days or less ? !!!!
_http://tinyurl.com/2a4hsj _ (http://tinyurl.com/2a4hsj )
_http://www.gmsurveys2.com/se.ashx?s=7C7FD94F76D8CE27_
(http://www.gmsurveys2.com/se.ashx?s=7C7FD94F76D8CE27)
WOW !!!
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The full cage we built for the S10 I will be racing in the pro street HEADS
UPclass leaves only a qt.inch for a nedra mandantory headliner.It had to be
built that close to the roof to allow enough clearance for a helmeted
driver.Does
the headliner need to be an original liner or will a close copy due?
Dennis Berube
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--- Begin Message ---
Hey all
Although I'll be unable to attend BBB I'll be armchair
watching the event and hoping that those there will
have a great time and capture it with pics and video.
I shipped out a small 6.7" modded 12 volt motor for
the boys to raffle off earlier this week that'll
hopefully make a nice project for someone to play with
8^) This motor is very close to the one FT uses in
FrankenDragon so I hope people pitch in a few bucks
and help BBB be a successful EVent and maybe bring
home a new toy to play with.
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> My original plan had our new full sized
> dragster "Juiced Up" at the race next week but as
>they say &*%$ happens. It's current state has the
>dual siamese 9 inchers at Jim Husted's shop, 2 of
>the 4 Zillas still on Otmars bench, it's many
>battery cells still in Singapore and it's rather
>empty chassis up on the wall. Power of DC in June
>looks like a reality for "Juiced Up".
Well you just couldn't keep the cat in the bag could
you Shawn?? LMAO! I would have loved for it to have
had it's debut at BBB also. At least it wasn't just
the motor that held it up though lol. For those
curious I'll be building Shawn an in-line dual 9"
Siamese setup.
This equaits to a 60+" 600 lbs motor needing a shaft
capabable of handling a minimum of 1500 battery HP and
8000 amps lmao!!!
Dennis Berube wrote:
Well Shawn 4 2Khv zillas thats about 3200hp for a
short time. That should
easily take CEs record where we had 228hp and only ran
8.801.With that kind of hp
you should run very low 5s.JIM make those 9s stout!!
Well if I can be honest to Shawn, God, and the list,
this project has a full 10 rating on the pucker factor
for me, lmao! In fact this unit will be a full 3X the
size of Waylands Siamese 8 and poses additional issues
to work out which Dutchman and I have been discussing.
I'm sure pics and more info will be posted at either
Shawns or my site for those interested. As to
building it stout, it'll have everything I got plus a
couple crossed fingers hehe.
Wishing all safe travels and sunny weather with good
friends.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a PS3 game guru.
Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.
http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Has it really gone up 50,000 in two days or less ? !!!!
_http://tinyurl.com/2a4hsj _ (http://tinyurl.com/2a4hsj )
_http://www.gmsurveys2.com/se.ashx?s=7C7FD94F76D8CE27_
(http://www.gmsurveys2.com/se.ashx?s=7C7FD94F76D8CE27)
WOW !!!
The vote has gone up about 25,000 in the last 4 hours.
Hacked?
John in Sylmar, CA
PV EV
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Amazing those cars with the thin tires could go over huge embankments
and deep muddy roads without getting stuck or the wheels spinning in. I
don't know how they did it?
Anyone know?
Today a car would bog down and sink into those same muddy roads.
Were the cars just lighter or 4 wheel drive ?
On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 9:36 am, Lee Hart wrote:
From: Peter VanDerWal
Thin, super hard, tires have less rolling resistance... as long as
you only
drive on flat roads with no rocks, gravel, potholes, etc. In the real
world
you want the tires to give a little when going over small bumps so
that
you don't have to waste energy moving the whole suspension (or worse,
whole vehicle) up.
All early 1900's cars used thin, super hard tires... for example, Ford
model T's used 60 psi tires. And roads were terrible! Most were
unpaved. Rocks, gravel, potholes etc. were everywhere. But suspensions
had lots more travel (to make up for the lack of "give" in the tire),
and shock absorbers were weak or nonexistent (no losses there!). People
had a lot of flats, though.
--
Lee Hart
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
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On 20 Jan 2007 at 10:39, GWMobile wrote:
> Amazing those cars with the thin tires could go over huge embankments
> and deep muddy roads without getting stuck or the wheels spinning in. I
> don't know how they did it?
Who says they didn't get stuck? There are plenty of photos from the time,
depicting exactly that.
Now, can we get back to discussing EVs?
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Tim,
I have never owned a system from AC Propulsion, but am somewhat familiar with
it. Yes, it is a good system. Some would say the best. I feel it is
expensive. Has a lot of features, including charging through the motor
controller. Investigate the web site and you'll find all this info.
Jeff
Tim Gamber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Has anyone on this list ever bought a AC system from AC propulsion. If so
are they good? Do they come with a charger?
_________________________________________________________________
Dont waste time standing in linetry shopping online. Visit Sympatico / MSN
Shopping today! http://shopping.sympatico.msn.ca
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Never miss an email again!
Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it out.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Who Killed the Electric Car will be showing here in Fresno at the
Javawava Coffee House on Monday, 1-22 at 7pm. Free show and popcorn
but donations are welcome. Javawava (1940 N. Echo) is across the
street from Fresno High School. Don't forget to bring coffee money.
Bruce Williford
68 Karmann Ghia conversion in progress.
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I'm considering a similar setup on a small truck. I have two 6.7 inch
motors and I am considering doing to totally separate 72 volt systems. It's
just way easier to get 72 volt parts, and I thing by keeping the
transmission we should be able to get decent performance. Two 450amp
Alltrax controllers and two 72+ volt packs of BB600's in an S10 or similar
size truck is what I am considering. As far as coupling the motors, if I do
it, I will send them off to Bend Or to have them siamesed.
damon
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Lower price (and available) configurations
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 09:33:30 -0800
At 09:27 AM 1/20/2007, Tim Gamber wrote:
Sounds a little complicated to me especially the multiple controller idea
now that i know.
Except in this case the multiple controller setup is done the easy way.
It is not multiple controllers on a single motor. Each controller has it's
own motor, so there is nothing special about the setup.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
_________________________________________________________________
Search for grocery stores. Find gratitude. Turn a simple search into
something more.
http://click4thecause.live.com/search/charity/default.aspx?source=hmemtagline_gratitude&FORM=WLMTAG
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi, Chuck,
The first thing you should probably do is go to the website www.nedra.com
and check the rules and category descriptions to help determine what class
you will want to be racing in, and also get a copy of the 2007 NHRA drag
racing rules. I don't know how heavy your car is. In the past I converted
a Datsun 280Z for the SC/D class. That car is in the record listing under
the name "The Silver Bullet". This information might give you a weight
comparison with your car. I would like to see someone build another
electric drag car retaining the automatic transmission. Rod Wilde did so a
few years ago with success. Although it adds a little bit of weight, it
gives you the advantage of being able to change gear ratios under way and
also provides a reversing function, which is now a requirement of NEDRA and
NHRA.
If you choose to remove the transmission, you will need to reverse your
motor(s) electrically or add some sort of mechanical reversing system. It
would be interesting to see how a race-prepared two speed power glide, with
possibly a 1000 rpm stall converter and 2000 to 2500 rpm lock-up, would
perform. I know I will get argument from other electric drag racers on
this because the highest torque in a series wound DC motor is available at
just over zero rpm. So, by not connecting to the drive until 1000 rpm,
some of the torque curve will be lost; but I believe this can be balanced
by the amount of elapsed time required to spin up the electric motor.
Also, this allows the hydraulic system to function without any modification.
In a high voltage vehicle, I would not advise using a contactor-controller.
When I say high voltage, I mean probably something over 200 or 240 volts.
The reason for this controller restriction is that good electronic
controllers (Z2K) are programmable for both battery pack voltage and
amperage draw and for motor voltage and amperage draw.
Contactor-controllers are not programmable in this way. Most series wound
electric motors will not handle more than 170 or 180 volts. Moreover, it
is difficult to stage at the starting line with a contactor-controller and
no clutch. A low-power controller can be used to manoeuver and stage the
vehicle and then launch on a bypass contactor-controller. When bypassing
the controller, and going directly from the battery pack to the motor, for
an instant the motor will see the pack voltage; but that voltage
immediately sags to as little as 50% of its resting voltage. For that
short period of time, the motor probably will not overheat or flash over.
Talking to several different drag racers is a very good idea. There are
almost as many ways to build an electric drag car as there are people
building them. Budget will also have a lot to do with how you proceed on
this project. The large variety of racing classes available to the NEDRA
racer allows a person to race on whichever level works with his/her budget.
So go to the NEDRA website, become a member, build a car, and have fun!
- Don "Father Time" Crabtree, Vice Pres. of NEDRA
> [Original Message]
> From: OverRev Racing, Inc. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Electric Vehicle Club <[email protected]>
> Date: 1/19/2007 12:22:24 PM
> Subject: Converting a 1974 Plymouth to Electric for 1/4 mile competition
>
> Hey Fellow EVr's,
>
> I need some help. I've been a drag racing fanatic for
> years. I'm looking for direction to build my car, to
> convert my bare 74 Plymouth A-Body car to electric
> power for 1/4 mile racing purposes.
>
> I have no clue where to start sourcing parts for this,
> but my blueprint consists of an assembly that sits in
> the engine bay and drives a factory automatic
> transmission (GM or Chrysler), using battery power
> from two groups of batteries--one set located in the
> engine compartment and another set located in the
> trunk. My belief is that this will allow for more even
> distribution of the weight. The rear interior is also
> available for battery space.
>
> The car is a rolling chassis and has been soda/sand
> stripped and sealed--car looks like a restoration thus
> far. I don't have a target speed but I'm guessing the
> higher the voltage the better. the car is manual
> brakes and steering, has heavy duty components and is
> not yet rear-geared--so I can dial a custom ratio
> needed for the RPM's that are produced.
> I won't be street driving the car--so no worries
> there.
>
> Where do I get a motor?
> What type of wiring schematic will be needed?
> should I be planning to buy Optima's and how many (I
> already get them at Wholesale in bulk)
>
> What type of charging will the car require? I have 220
> in my garage.
>
> Any information for such a project would be helpful
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chuck
>
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