EV Digest 6323
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Converting a 1974 Plymouth to Electric for 1/4 mile competition
by "BadFishRacing" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Age Old AC vs DC
by "Matthew Drobnak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) super skinny/hard tires .. thin tyres in the 69 psi
by "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Optimum speed
by "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Garden tractor question or DC/AC yet again
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: EEstor
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Introduction, Advice Sought
by Jonathan Jekir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Sunnyvale Caltrain Station EV Charging?
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Charging while driving [JGS-EV]
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: super skinny/hard tires .. thin tyres in the 69 psi
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
11) Xantrex Choice Model Redux
by "Brian M. Sutin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Xantrex Link-10 with RS-232 Discontinued
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Yuasa 160-6 EN Gel Batteries
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
14) Re: Yuasa 160-6 EN Gel Batteries
by "Chris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) FW: Hello, I'm new
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: Converting a 1974 Plymouth to Electric for 1/4 mile competition
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Timing BLDC Motor
by "Dale Ulan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Converting a 1974 Plymouth to Electric for 1/4 mile competition
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Battery Beach Burnout/6th EVer Special Update
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
20) Re: Conversion costs never change?
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) The 72 Volt question
by "Mark Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: The 72 Volt question
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Jack at poormansev.com has done a nice job on a budget '64 Chevelle with
powerglide.
I'm sure he can help.
Darin Gilbert
BadFishRacing
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Dymaxion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 7:02 PM
Subject: Re: Converting a 1974 Plymouth to Electric for 1/4 mile competition
Here is a great article about how a hotrod magazine got a V8 Plymouth down
to 2400 lbs:
<http://www.hotrod.com/howto/113_0310_weight_reduction/index.html>
----- Original Message ----
From: "OverRev Racing, Inc." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Electric Vehicle Club <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 12:19:17 PM
Subject: Converting a 1974 Plymouth to Electric for 1/4 mile competition
Hey Fellow EVr's,
I need some help. I've been a drag racing fanatic for
years. I'm looking for direction to build my car, to
convert my bare 74 Plymouth A-Body car to electric
power for 1/4 mile racing purposes.
I have no clue where to start sourcing parts for this,
but my blueprint consists of an assembly that sits in
the engine bay and drives a factory automatic
transmission (GM or Chrysler), using battery power
from two groups of batteries--one set located in the
engine compartment and another set located in the
trunk. My belief is that this will allow for more even
distribution of the weight. The rear interior is also
available for battery space.
The car is a rolling chassis and has been soda/sand
stripped and sealed--car looks like a restoration thus
far. I don't have a target speed but I'm guessing the
higher the voltage the better. the car is manual
brakes and steering, has heavy duty components and is
not yet rear-geared--so I can dial a custom ratio
needed for the RPM's that are produced.
I won't be street driving the car--so no worries
there.
Where do I get a motor?
What type of wiring schematic will be needed?
should I be planning to buy Optima's and how many (I
already get them at Wholesale in bulk)
What type of charging will the car require? I have 220
in my garage.
Any information for such a project would be helpful
Thanks,
Chuck
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Well that's very encouraging data. :-)
Where'd you find that on EVSource? (I browsed quickly)
I was told that if I went with 360V (3 * 120 pack of NiMH that were offered,
* 36 Ah) the regenerative abilities of the AC90 would not work much, if at
all. At 336V I would be fine, however.
I'm not sure what I want to do. I would have liked Altairnano batteries
(better then the NiMH in price and performance!) but obviously we have to
wait on that.
Anyone hear anything about A123 producing a EV-friendly battery pack that we
can buy?
Otherwise I may start buying components and wait it out. If that DC motor
will produce torque for more then 2800 RPMs, then I may go with that. With
hopefully 331V (13.8V) * 88 Ah, I should have plenty of power to move me for
many more miles then I could have hoped. :-)
With A123.... :: shrug :: I have no idea.
NiMH...expensive, but I can get it now.
Man, why can't good stuff be available today?
-Matt
On 1/19/07, Paul G. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On Jan 15, 2007, at 7:16 PM, Matthew Drobnak wrote:
> Average TQ over powerband (all of data, not just "useful part")
>
> ICE: 221.08
> AC90: 193.09
> 2 AC55: 188
> 2 9" 2k: 327.5
> 1 11" 1k: 195.2 <-- From 72V #s * 5 - I think it's off a bit
> 1 11" 2k: 292.8 ^^^ See above - 1.5 * above #s
At high amps the torque a series motor produces generally increases
almost linearly with amps. I would expect^ an 11" and Z2k to have
around 550 ft/lb. of torque and that this would be constant from 0 rpm
up to wherever the controller came out of current limit (this point
will rise as the voltage increases, I'd guess to around 5000 rpm with a
336 volt pack.)
^ abusing data from <http://www.evsource.com>
Paul
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
George Orwell, "1984"
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.milburn.us/docs/27_instr-08.jpg
shows that tyre pressure was to be 69 psi
pic shows tyres which are rather thin
tyres in my ICE need 26 to 30 psi only ..
maybe thin and high pressure tyres will help
reduce tyre resistance .. and with much improved
suspension systems in place, the shocks will not
get to the people
..peekay
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> The electric cars in early part of last century had rolling drag closer to
> train rails. Super skinny tires hard tires that did not hold air. We do
have
> far better roads today though.
>
> Don
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All new Yahoo! Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and ease
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--- Begin Message ---
THIS is reality .. i guess theory has its limits .. for each ev there would
be an optimum speed resulting from its design (which results in its own
drag)
with the latest microchip based monitoring this will be easy to determine
while the ev is rolling
there will also be the wind speed when it is very breezy .. and direction of
wind vis a vis direction of ev will matter
..peekay
----- Original Message -----
From: "JS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> I have observed that my conversion (1981 Jet Electrica - Ford Escort)
> seems to draw less
> current in 2nd gear at about 35-38 mph.
>
> I assume that speed will give me the greatest range.
>
> John in Sylmar, CA
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--- Begin Message ---
About 8 years ago I converted a hydrostatic garden tractor. It had a
300-amp
aircraft generator for its motor. It's a shunt wound machine. I used two
contactors and a resistor in the way Lee describes. The tractor performed
well
for about two years until the transmission failed and I abandoned the
project.
The motor produced enough torque to easily spin the wheels on dry pavement.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 10:02 AM
Subject: Re: Garden tractor question or DC/AC yet again
Ken Albright wrote:
I'm wanting to build a garden tractor for various jobs around my place.
One of its jobs will be to provide a roving AC power supply, thus
requiring an inverter. Many of the donors I'm finding have a
hydrostatic transmission, which would seem to need only a contactor,
not a controller.
You'd want a little more than just a single contactor. It would be very
hard on the contactor to switch directly from "off" to full pack voltage.
As a minimum, use two contactors and a resistor. Energize the first
contactor, and it starts the motor with the resistor in series. Energize
the second contactor, and it shorts the resistor for full speed.
With the hydrostatic transmission, you'd want to use a PM or shunt motor,
which naturally runs at a more-or-less constant speed. A series motor
would tend to over-speed at light load, and slow down too much under a
heavy load.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Paul,
For a DC motor controller, the same holds as I sketched for AC,
though it looks surprisingly the same - in fact, it looks
surprisingly like a Zilla, with two differences, no make that 3:
1. Internal induction to avoid the motor ever seeing 3500V spikes,
if the output is set to limit to (for example) 600V then the
inductor will see the 0 to 3500V switching voltage from the
transistors and smoothen that out to a DC voltage between 0
and 600V or whatever other voltage was chosen as limit.
2. Voltage range will require a new extra-extra high voltage
version to withstand the 0 to 3500V switching, this will make
for a more expensive controller in small quantity, as these
transistors are not cheap - yet.
3. Luckily the current can be a lot lower, although it will be
a major challenge to get the same 600kW out of a Zilla, as
it still takes 1000A at 600V to produce that amount of power.
Contrary to the situation today, the capacitor voltage sag
will not reduce the output power, where today 336V of batteries
sag to below 200V and restrict power below 400kW, even if the
capacitor would sag from 3500 to 2500 or even 1000V, the output
can still supply 600V at 1000A to the motor. More bang for
the buck, though likely more bucks necessary for this bang.
Note that you can use about 97% of the capacity from the EEstor
before the voltage falls under the 600V limit to guarantee max
output - you can still use the remaining 3% but at ever lower
levels of output power due to the quickly falling voltage.
Not really a problem, I would say.
Also, fuel gauge is trivially simple.
Hope this clarifies,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Paul G.
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 3:54 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: EEstor
On Jan 18, 2007, at 2:09 PM, Roderick Wilde wrote:
> Maybe you would care to elaborate on the price of their least
> expensive motor and on the price and availability of a 3000 volt
> controller to control motor speed so we can all start gearing up for
> the future when these batteries come on the market very soon. Please
> also include information on their high voltage disconnects. We could
> use some of them right now for EV racing. A few hundred volts DC
> rating would be fine for the time being.
I think your are missing the point Rod. Caps are not batteries, the
voltage available falls as they discharge (and doesn't bounce back
unless you have regen.) If you want decent capacity you need to
discharge to 1/2 their charged voltage or lower. What is missing isn't
the motors, its the DC>DC converter (or DC>AC inverter) that will
provide a regulated output voltage (a Zilla controller is a buck
controller than can regulate output voltage - but its a few volts shy
of the input :-)
I suspect that the required converter, at EV power levels, will be
expensive. Lithium is not cheap either - the current price point target
of either of these hi-tech EV packs is out of my budget.
Paul "neon" G.
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
George Orwell, "1984"
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Generally two main types of donors are preferred: compacts and pickup
trucks. Compacts are trickier to work with because everything's quite
cramped and you have to fit lots of lead in, but it's quite common.
While pickups are big, they can easily carry the thousand-plus pounds
of lead for batteries. SUVs aren't as common because they're big, but
don't have the extra space and capacity for batteries.
Whatever you choose, I wish you the best of luck with your conversion.
Jonathan
On 19-Jan-07, at 1:35 PM, BC wrote:
I've been a member for quite a few months now. I'm dreaming that
when the
weather gets warmer I'll actually have time to work on a project.
In the
meantime if I find an EV near me for sale... well that would be a
bonus.
My first question is where I can get some "nearly hands on"
experience. I
live in Delaware. Does anyone know where I can find an EV group
close to
meet and physically see, touch, and feel an EV?
I've already gone the Biodiesel and WVO route, and although I enjoy
it an EV
just seems simpler. I am averaging less than 50 miles per day...
and on a
busy day I still seem to travel less than 60 miles. However I have
a need
to seat 3 people as I may be shuffling family here and there.
My current thinking is to convert a Blazer (might be hard to find
manual) a
Geo Tracker, Honda CRX, or similar. I figure a light SUV framed type
vehicle would be better in the long run than a sedan. But I really
want to
drive an EV because I don't understand all the hubbub about shifting.
Batteries will probably be 12V flooded. I'm thinking 144v, but who
knows.
Is shifting really different than an ICE? Is my car choice going
to be too
heavy for my needs? Is there a Philly or Baltimore EV Club?
TIA,
Bill
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Jennifer,
On my way back from work I was within a block from the station,
so I detoured and drove through the parking structure.
The EV charging spaces were empty, no standard plugs there
as far as I could see, but both in the corner where I entered
(from Evelyn) as well as in the corner with the exit (towards
the station) there was a duplex 5-15 outlet at about 6 ft height
(probably to avoid accidents with children).
I forgot to test if they were "on", but I presume that these
are used for cleaning/vending/maintenance so they are likely
powered. I did not see a person, so I do not know if there is
a way to ask for permission to charge.
Note that this parking is about 12 steps away from downtown
(Murphy street starts across Evelyn), which is both good and bad.
Good in that if the outlets are not powered, there are at least
8 restaurants and 12 shops within a block to ask if you could
plug in there while away (you will obviously come back and
may be buying something from them).
Bad is that you may want to make sure that your charger is
secured to your moped, so only a cord comes out (also secured to
the moped) to plug in, otherwise it is too easy to vandalize an
unattended charger sitting next to your moped in public parking.
Just in case you get stuck and can't get your moped home - give
me a call and we can load the moped in my EV truck.
Alternative would be that you borrow my eBike, though I have no
lights on it yet - you need to travel by day or mount a light.
I need to build more LED lights, since this bike has a 24V
battery, I want to use that for the light, that's why it still
does not have a light yet.
Too many projects, too little time ;-)
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Cor van de Water
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 7:42 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Sunnyvale Caltrain Station EV Charging?
Jennifer,
Nema 5-15 outlets (the normal 3-pronged wall sockets) are often
available in many places, but not listed on EV Charger websites
because it takes too long to charge a car and parking is
usually not reserved at normal outlet locations, as they are
often placed for cleaning/vending purposes, not charging.
Can you make it both ways on a charge or is the distance too
far for your tired moped batteries?
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Grigg. John
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 4:01 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Sunnyvale Caltrain Station EV Charging?
Doesn't look like any standard three-prong household outlets are
there...
http://www.evchargernews.com/regions/94086_3.htm
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Rodriguez, Jennifer
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 3:48 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Sunnyvale Caltrain Station EV Charging?
Does anyone know if I can charge my electric moped (EVT 4000e) in the
parking garage there? It uses a standard three-prong household outlet.
I have to go to SF every day for a week and thought it would be nice to
ride my moped to the station instead of driving.
Thanks, Jenn
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--- Begin Message ---
Lee wrote:
>If you want to run an alternator without a battery, you need to add a
>BIG filter capacitor to smooth out these load variations. And, you'll
>want to add a big surge suppressor to prevent voltage surges if some
>large 12v load is suddenly disconnected.
One way to use only one component to take care of the filtering and
the surge suppression is..... to add a battery ;-).
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 11:21 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Charging while driving [JGS-EV]
Bill Dennis wrote:
> Dave, I'm asking because I want to compare the situation to running an
> alternator off the tailshaft of a traction motor. Just trying to
> understand why an alternator alone couldn't supply enough energy on
> average.
An alternator has no problem supplying power without a battery. The
problem is with its voltage regulator. They use the cheapest possible
regulator, which just *barely* works even with a battery.
Without a battery, the voltage is correct on average, but it bounces all
over the place as the load changes. It momentarily dips to just a few
volts if the load suddenly increases (like when you turn on the
headlights); the clock loses the time, the radio loses its presets, the
engine computer loses power and resets, etc. And when you remove a heavy
load, the voltage momentarily increases (called a "load dump"), which
can burn out light bulbs or wreck electronics.
If you want to run an alternator without a battery, you need to add a
BIG filter capacitor to smooth out these load variations. And, you'll
want to add a big surge suppressor to prevent voltage surges if some
large 12v load is suddenly disconnected.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I believe the first vehicles had hard rubber. This model is close to it at
60 plus pounds on skinny tire. My OEM electric vehicle is recommended to be
inflated to 50 pounds cold.
Don
In a message dated 1/19/2007 7:25:08 PM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
http://www.milburn.us/docs/27_instr-08.jpg
shows that tyre pressure was to be 69 psi
pic shows tyres which are rather thin
tyres in my ICE need 26 to 30 psi only ..
maybe thin and high pressure tyres will help
reduce tyre resistance .. and with much improved
suspension systems in place, the shocks will not
get to the people
..peekay
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> The electric cars in early part of last century had rolling drag closer to
> train rails. Super skinny tires hard tires that did not hold air. We do
have
> far better roads today though.
>
> Don
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I got a Link-10, opened it up, and got on the phone with Xantrex. The
spot to solder on the right-angle DB-9 is completely obvious. The alarm
wires are always run out on any recent Link-10. They have the alarm,
even if you didn't pay for it. The 1000A upgrade is in software, so if
you want that, you will have to find someone with a Choice model and
transfer the software over with an eprom burner. What isn't clear is
if the Link-10 genuinely hits a rail at 500A, or if it just can't
display a value that high. Since I don't need more range than 500A, I
will leave that curiosity to somene else to fathom.
Apparently various Choice models have had different DB-9 connectors.
Some screwed into the case for support, some snapped in, some were
conmpletely plastic, some not. Either way, anyone doing the upgrade
will have to Dremel a DB9-shaped hole in the case for the connector.
Brian
Alfa Romeo Electric Conversion
http://www.skewray.com/alfa
--
Brian M. Sutin, Ph.D. Space System Engineering and Optical Design
Skewray Research/316 W Green St/Claremont CA 91711 USA/(909) 621-3122
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Garret Maki wrote:
Thanks Lee
Now I just need to figure out how to get into the case, and what
components. I have an RS-232 model and one without, but what I really
want is one with the alarm output so I've no idea how to find out what
components are needed. I've done surface-mount mods before so I'm ok
with a few parts that way.
Does anyone have a schematic or know what the mod is to add the alarm
function? I want to us it to shut off my charger for my current BB600
Nicad motorcycle project.
It's a little bitty surface mount MOSFET, but I don't know the number.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
They look like UPS batteries. Yuasa does not show any information that would
make it a good choice for EV use.
Don
In a message dated 1/19/2007 10:09:29 AM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Hello, does anyone have any experience of these cells, or any similar gel
cells.
They're 6V rated at
160AHr 10Hr to 1.85vpc
129AHr 3Hr to 1.8vpc
105AHr 1Hr to 1.75vpc
63 Wh/L
26 Wh/Kg
35Kg
max discharge 960A
S.C. current 1500Amps
305x210x236mm
More details here _http://www.yuasa-battery.co.uk/industrial/enandenl.html_
(http://www.yuasa-battery.co.uk/industrial/enandenl.html)
What I would like to know is if anyone has any experience of them, or could
someone perhaps suggest how they would hold up in an EV with a 40-80A
nominal
demand, and short peaks of 300Amps
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Don. They're being sold for a very low price, adn I've had
contact from someone who has EV'd them and has given them some good
feedback. I can't afford much for the batteries and the scrap value
is always there.
I'm waiting to here from the seller, if they have enough, but I'm
thinking they will do for now to get me on the road and give me time
to arrange (ie save up for) better replacements.
Best Regards
Chris
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>
> They look like UPS batteries. Yuasa does not show any information
that would
> make it a good choice for EV use.
>
> Don
>
> In a message dated 1/19/2007 10:09:29 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> Hello, does anyone have any experience of these cells, or any
similar gel
> cells.
> They're 6V rated at
> 160AHr 10Hr to 1.85vpc
> 129AHr 3Hr to 1.8vpc
> 105AHr 1Hr to 1.75vpc
>
> 63 Wh/L
> 26 Wh/Kg
>
> 35Kg
>
> max discharge 960A
> S.C. current 1500Amps
>
> 305x210x236mm
>
> More details here _http://www.yuasa-
battery.co.uk/industrial/enandenl.html_
> (http://www.yuasa-battery.co.uk/industrial/enandenl.html)
>
> What I would like to know is if anyone has any experience of them,
or could
>
> someone perhaps suggest how they would hold up in an EV with a 40-
80A
> nominal
> demand, and short peaks of 300Amps
>
> Chris
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Anthony,
Welcome to the list. This list will give you the most information volume wise
you will probably see on the web. And it is mostly
in real time, and very interactive. There are some who use older equipment and
some who have limited connectivity resources so
this format has the ability to hit just about EVeryone who wants in. I have no
doubt that EVen in ths format you will benefit
more than any of the other "traditional" forums. Those forums as they have
been saying on this list for many years, have come and
gone. Take a look back through the recent round on this discussion with subj:
Re: BBS? But regardless of what you take out of
that discussion I'm sure you will not be disappointed with this format. It has
its shortcomings but I can tell you that in my
short time here it has been nothing short of amazing the content that is passed
through.
Enjoy, and welcome.
Mike Willmon
Anchorage, Ak.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Anthony Nguyen
> Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 9:00 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Hello, I'm new
>
>
> Hello everyone,
> I just joined to ev-listserv, in hopes of learning a few things before
> attempting to build my own vehicle.
> So I'll be lurking around, and might even post something if I feel the
> need.
> Just out of curiousity, why don't we have a more traditional internet forum?
>
> -Anthony
>
>
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Maybe save the weight of the tranny since DC motors will give you more torque
than you'll know what to do with. Dual 9's maybe
~800 - 900 ft-lbs. Direct drive a hell for stout rear end with gearing for at
least your anticipated top speed at the end of the
1/4 mile and electrically switch the motors from series to parallel for an
"electric" 2 speed that'll complete a shift in ~ 0.2 to
0.3 seconds.
Consider as a baseline:
Two WarP 9" motors for $3400/pair
http://www.evsource.com/tls_warp9.php
Zilla 2K 2000 Amp controller $4950
http://www.evsource.com/tls_controllers.php
400V 50 Amp Charger $2500
http://www.evsource.com/tls_pfc50.php
29 Hawker Oddyssey PC1200 high performance AGM batteries ~$2900
http://www.odysseyfactory.com/specs.htm
Built Ford 9" Rear-End from Currie or Dutchman ~$2000
Total of major components sought for sponsorship $15,750
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of OverRev Racing, Inc.
> Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 11:19 AM
> To: Electric Vehicle Club
> Subject: Converting a 1974 Plymouth to Electric for 1/4 mile competition
>
>
> Hey Fellow EVr's,
>
> I need some help. I've been a drag racing fanatic for
> years. I'm looking for direction to build my car, to
> convert my bare 74 Plymouth A-Body car to electric
> power for 1/4 mile racing purposes.
>
> I have no clue where to start sourcing parts for this,
> but my blueprint consists of an assembly that sits in
> the engine bay and drives a factory automatic
> transmission (GM or Chrysler), using battery power
> from two groups of batteries--one set located in the
> engine compartment and another set located in the
> trunk. My belief is that this will allow for more even
> distribution of the weight. The rear interior is also
> available for battery space.
>
> The car is a rolling chassis and has been soda/sand
> stripped and sealed--car looks like a restoration thus
> far. I don't have a target speed but I'm guessing the
> higher the voltage the better. the car is manual
> brakes and steering, has heavy duty components and is
> not yet rear-geared--so I can dial a custom ratio
> needed for the RPM's that are produced.
> I won't be street driving the car--so no worries
> there.
>
> Where do I get a motor?
> What type of wiring schematic will be needed?
> should I be planning to buy Optima's and how many (I
> already get them at Wholesale in bulk)
>
> What type of charging will the car require? I have 220
> in my garage.
>
> Any information for such a project would be helpful
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chuck
>
>
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I just got my second Solectria BRLS-16 BLDC motor and controller working
(the MOSFETs and MOSFET drivers in the controller were all blown up so I
rebuilt the controller using three dual-pack 600V 300A IGBT's), and I'm
wondering how people time BLDC's with hall effect feedback. Do you time it
to match the commutation with the back-EMF (symmetrical?), or do you advance
it slightly, or put it on a dyno and tune for highest torque? Any of those
methods except the first are direction-specific, so I'd assume that you need
to pick the primary direction and tune that way. This controller does not
phase-advance with RPM, unfortunately. I think I'd prefer slightly more
mid-range torque and sacrifice a small amount of zero-RPM torque, if that
makes a difference. Also, is anyone out there running these motors? They
seem pretty rare (pun not intended). Thanks!
-Dale
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On 1/20/07, Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Maybe save the weight of the tranny since DC motors will give you more torque
than you'll know
what to do with. Dual 9's maybe ~800 - 900 ft-lbs. Direct drive a hell for
stout rear end with gearing
for at least your anticipated top speed at the end of the 1/4 mile and
electrically switch the motors
from series to parallel for an "electric" 2 speed that'll complete a shift in ~
0.2 to 0.3 seconds.
Or keep the transmission and just use a contactor controller. Has
anyone ever tried that? Must be a lot kinder to the final drive.
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Shawn and all,
We can't wait to bring the OJ2 to South Florida. We are up here in the
snow staying warm by working feverishly putting the car back together.
We should have it sitting on it's wheels by nightfall. Thanks again to
Bill Dube and his team member Derek for making this happen. This was
not the path we planned to travel to BB but a last minute save by Bill
and A123. My original plan had our new full sized dragster "Juiced Up"
at the race next week but as they say &*%$ happens. It's current
state has the dual siamese 9 inchers at Jim Husted's shop, 2 of the 4
Zillas still on Otmars bench, it's many battery cells still in
Singapore and it's rather empty chassis up on the wall. Power of DC in
June looks like a reality for "Juiced Up" but there was just no way to
make BB. So we pulled the old OJ2 off the wall, decided to fit her
with 8 new Lemco's, a brand new 2K Zilla, and 120 Dewalt 36 Volt tool
batteries. When it got to crunch time the Dewalt deal fizzled. Plan B
was to buy the cells direct from A123 and weld them up for the race.
That requires $16K for the cells, thousands of spot welds, many hrs,
and a $20K welder. Just too much to do in the remaining time and too
much cash for one night of racing. Plan C was 60 pcs of Deka 14's
fresh from the factory. Proven performance and lots of power but too
much weight for the 8 Lemco's to shove down the track in the single
digits. So in the end it is Plan D (for Dube) that is going to add
some excitement to our trip to Jupiter next week. That's the story.
Hope to see you all there.
Shawn Lawless
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [email protected]; [email protected]
Sent: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 11:06 PM
Subject: Battery Beach Burnout/6th EVer Special Update
Hi Everyone!
Well, the race and conference planning is fast under way and coming
together
great. So far we have people from the US, Canada and Mexico all
planning on
attending. We have several media crews planning on being to film the
events,
race teams and EV'ers from all over the US and the registrations keep
rolling in every day. Based on the number of registered people, calls
and
emails, this looks like it could be one of the biggest EV races ever.
Speaking of racing, the FLEAA is honored to be the ones to announce a
very
special car that will be racing at the BBB. Thanks to the hard work of
Bill
Dube and his sponsor A123, Shawn Lawless will be racing the recently
upgraded Orange Juice Dragster with the A123 battery pack out of
KillaCycle
for the weekend! If you are not familiar with Orange Juice in its
current
configuration, it is a shorten rail dragster, with 8 Zilla powered LEMCO
motors, now energized by the famous A123 cells from KillaCycle. The
whole
dragster with motors, controller and batteries is weighing in less than
1000lbs. Shawn and his team will certainly be putting on a great show!
We
can't wait to see what kind of times he can post.thanks to Bill Dube and
A123 for supporting Shawn's Orange Juice.
The rest of the drag strip line is looking very impressive as well.
Besides
Orange Juice, Darin Gilbert of Bad Fish Racing, Matt Graham's Joule
Injected, ProEV's Electric Imp, Miramar's Porsche 944, Brian Hall with
Thunderstruck EV and numerous others will all be out there. There is
also
local rumor of a new S-10 with a Warp 13 and a Z2K racing! We will have
close to 30 EV's competing in the competitions throughout the weekend.
The
road rally is looking great with numerous long range vehicles taking the
line-up. More rumors of a Valence powered car from GA are surfacing as
well.
Saturday afternoon will bring us the first ever East Coast Scootercross
and
the much anticipated autocross later that day. We will see if ProEV and
their Electric Imp can hold their title from last year. To add to the
fun,
we have invited a local road racer to bring his super-charged Acura NSX
to
go head-to-head with the EVs.
So after the 2 hard days of racing and action, we will be winding down
to a
much deserved award ceremony and award banquet dinner Saturday night.
There
will be plenty of time to socialize and relax before the conference on
Sunday. Sunday's conference promises to yield a lot of great
information and
discussions.
The FLEAA will be providing a continental style breakfast of bagels,
doughnuts and fruit with coffee Saturday morning at FAU while all the
prep
work is under way. There is a group breakfast being planned like were
held
at the 5th EVer for Sunday morning.
There is a lot of hard work being put in by numerous people to bring
this
all together, but I would like to take a moment and thank our sponsors,
who
without we would not be holding such a grand event:
Headlining the event this year is Vectrix, joined by AC Propulsion, Palm
Beach Toyota, Suncoast EV Outfitters (SEVO), Alltrax Controllers, Hawker
AeroBatteries, Coastal Tire and Auto, ThunderStruck Motors, KTA
Services,
and Hi-Torque Electric.
We would also like to thank NEDRA for sanctioning the drag race at the
Battery Beach Burnout.
It is going to be a fantastic event and not one to be missed. It's not
too
late to plan on being here. Registration for the events and race is
free,
however, the FLEAA does ask that if you are going to attend and are
planning
on being there to please take a moment to register at the website:
http://floridaeaa.org/modules/liaise/?form_id=6 This will allow us to
have
your pit pass (name tag) pre-printed and ready for you when you arrive.
Thanks everyone, we look forward to seeing in a little over a week here
is
sunny south Florida!
Shawn M. Waggoner
FLEAA
www.floridaeaa.org
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Jeff Shanab wrote:
> I think looking for reduced cost in EV conversions is possible but
> not in the DC EV conversions. Though once the economy way to convert,
> I fear that it doesn't lend itself to that next step of mass
> production for economies of scale.
Then why are almost all golf carts, forklifts, and other
commercially successful EVs using DC systems and lead-acid batteries?
Great point!, I wonder if maybe it is because the requirements for
golfcarts and forklifts are a better match to lead acid/dc combinations.
Speed,mileage,weight, etc. Or as I think Lee has pointed out before,
Tradition and "thats the way it has been done" often are the biggest
reasons.
I realize now I said "EV conversions" but was talking EV Mass Production.
> Perhaps it will work this way...
> <dreammode>
> The price on lithium-ion or lithium polymer drops to the point
> where
> 8K gets you a 25KWh pack that weights 500lbs
> New methods of construction in cars get you a 4 door glider that
> weighs 1000lbs
> Higher voltage and lower current motors and controllers means
> lighter motors, lighter wires.
> Standardization of interfaces allows many manufacturers to make
> compatible components, makeing them a commodity.
>
> Now 25Kwh may actually get you 150mile range.
> </dreammode>
Yes! A paradigm shift. Start over with a blank sheet of paper. And I
think it can be done! This is the reason I took on the Sunrise project!
I wish you all the best on it and can't wait, I wish I could help. I do
have a quick question about the sunrise: How does a drivetrain and
suspension get mounted? I have been thinking of building a hallow shaft
AC motor integrated with a reduction gearbox and transaxle (with park)
made from standard automatic transmission parts. Since thes are made
aftermarket, I wouldn't depend on GM(for example ) for my parts. Kinda
like the development of the lenco racing transmissions or the hewlend
transaxles. If I could find out the envelope to build my transaxle too
and some mounting points, maybe I could design to that.
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I am needing to do some testing and Zilla 1Ks are not going to be available
for some time. My question for those of you with some experience with
different voltage levels is if a 72Volt Alltrax controller would run my Warp
9 motor on a 2900 pound car at something approximating city driving speeds
of 35Mph max?
This would be something I could do to iron out many issues, move the car
around, etc., until I can get the larger unit. There are many things that
will need fabrication yet, like the serpentine belt drive, etc, so I am not
in a major rush, just want to make some progress.
So what is the consensus?
Mark Ward
95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
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When my last pack of batteries was dieing, so I didn't care about running
them down, I would often drive with the pack voltage falling to 80V or so.
This would eventually get me up to about 45mp in a vehicle about the same
weight as yours.
So I'd guess that a 72V controller (that could deliver at least 400 amps)
would be able to get you up to at least 35 mph. Might take a while
though.
> I am needing to do some testing and Zilla 1Ks are not going to be
> available
> for some time. My question for those of you with some experience with
> different voltage levels is if a 72Volt Alltrax controller would run my
> Warp
> 9 motor on a 2900 pound car at something approximating city driving speeds
> of 35Mph max?
>
> This would be something I could do to iron out many issues, move the car
> around, etc., until I can get the larger unit. There are many things
> that
> will need fabrication yet, like the serpentine belt drive, etc, so I am
> not
> in a major rush, just want to make some progress.
>
> So what is the consensus?
>
> Mark Ward
> 95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
> www.saabrina.blogspot.com
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
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