EV Digest 6370
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Controller problem
by Jennifer Herzberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Distilled water sources. Was: Re: Reviving flooded batteries
by "Matt Kenigson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: 8D verses 6 Volt batteries
by "Dave Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: my battery fire
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: 8D verses 6 Volt batteries
by "Matt Kenigson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Battery Washing, was: Re: my battery fire
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: my battery fire
by "Matt Kenigson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: 8D verses 6 Volt batteries
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: my battery fire
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Battery Beach, OJ, and Swamp Buggies
by "james s" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: 8D verses 6 Volt batteries
by xx xx <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: electrovaya BEV SUV
by "james s" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: 8D verses 6 Volt batteries
by xx xx <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: EVLN(Lotus' 644hp E-SUV, 350mi range, 155mph top speed)
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Distilled water sources. Was: Re: Reviving flooded batteries
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Jessie James should build electric motorcycles
by dale henderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Battery Beach, OJ, and Swamp Buggies
by "Mike Harvey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) EVLN(Peugeot Dauphin E-tricycle, 186mi range, 90mph top speed)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Debating purchasing an EV
by "George J. Jones, Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: 8D verses 6 Volt batteries
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: 8D verses 6 Volt batteries
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: Where did the RAV4 go?
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Distilled water sources.
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
David Roden wrote:
On 21 Jan 2007 at 13:17, Jennifer Herzberg wrote:
I seem to have a problem with my 93 Brusa Model AC300E 144 volt DC
to150 volt AC controller. The Acgtx20 motor barely rotates
backwards. I have 2 in my Solectria Force GT, the other controller
makes either motor spin well. I pulled it apart and theres nothing
obvious.
I'm no expert, but I think this is what happens when you reverse two of the
3-phase connections to the motor - it runs backwards. I'd guess that you
might have a failed phase in the inverter. It could also be a problem with
the circuitry that reads the feedback from the motor speed sensor.
thanks for the input David and Cor. I changed the way the
conections were made between the motor and controller, wala I be movin
with more than leisurely acceleration
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think they're just plain crazy about water around here. Yes, I only buy
distilled water (when I buy it -- it was getting expensive) and I usually
buy the store brand. I just checked with Publix (one of the local chains
here) and they've got distilled water today on sale (why??) for $0.79, so I
guess I'm on crack. I remember spending over $12 on distilled water on one
trip to the store but then again that was the time I discovered the water
had gone below the plates, so I'm guessing it was seven or eight gallons
worth. I suppose it's just that when I was having to put five plus gallons
in every couple of weeks it felt like a lot to spend. I've now adjusted the
K&W and it seems to be gassing a lot less. Chalk it up to newb mistakes.
Plus, the "steam distilled" water they sell at Publix and Harris-Teeter over
here isn't labeled that way. It's labeled "Drinking Water" and it says it's
steam-distilled and purified in little print on the bottom of the fancy
label. H-T has it for $1.49/gal. today. I have a Wal-Mart nearby, though,
so despite the fact that I despise shopping there, at least they can't
import the water from China economically.
Matt
On 1/31/07, Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
"Purified" water is very questionable, it is not the same as distilled.
99% pure is not impressive at all. Some tap water is near that. That's
still 1% mineral content! Also, these results are not well specified
and not really guaranteed over the life of the product in the field.
Something's wrong if your distilled water is $2.50/gal. Should be like
$0.59. It doesn't come in a lot of pricey brand names, distilled is not
marketable like "spring water".
Note that "bottled water" (Sparkletts) and "spring water" are not
distilled and should not be put in a battery.
Danny
Matt Kenigson wrote:
> I might go that route. With distilled water as much as $2.50 per
> gallon in
> our grocery stores over here, I've been using (please don't flame me)
> water
> from our fridge's built-in water purifier. I figured it probably
doesn't
> get all the minerals out, but it probably comes pretty close. Is this a
> really bad idea?
>
> I'll look at the Sears water purifier (what makes it different from my
> fridge's built-in?) and see if I can't find anything online for water
> distillation.
>
> Matt
>
> On 1/31/07, Doc Kennedy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>
>> FYI,
>>
>> A Sears water purifier which sells, on sale as low as $50 and $100
>> normally
>> can make
>> 99% pure, demineralized water at a rate of 2-4 gallons a day for a few
>> cents
>> of electricity
>> per gallon. It pays for itself in convenience good water for your EV
and
>> yourself.
>>
>> Doc Kennedy
>>
>>
>> On 1/31/07, TiM M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >
>> > Matt,
>> > Where are you buying your distilled water? I
>> > typically buy it in one gallon jugs at the local
>> > grocery store. If I can get the house brand on sale
>> > it's about .89/gallon. If I have to spring for the
>> > name brand stuff, Sparklets or some such, it's about
>> > $1.29 a gallon. Who knows, we pay more for gas out
>> > here in Southern California, so maybe they give us a
>> > break on the water. I go through about 2 gallons month
>> > on my 24 battery truck.
>> >
>> > TiM
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
____________________________________________________________________________________
>>
>> > Get your own web address.
>> > Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
>> > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you are referring to the 8D truck starting batteries, a few deep cycles
will kill them. However, at least one manufacturer (Concorde) has some 8D
sealed deep cycle batteries they're marketing to the RV crowd. I was looking
at them for my motorhome. The only disadvantage I see is cost (between $500
and $600 each, putting a 120 volt pack at $5000 to $6000, over twice the
cost of golf cart batteries). The ones I saw were 255 AH.
Dave
From: xx xx <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: 8D verses 6 Volt batteries
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 16:52:08 -0800 (PST)
I've been wondering what the general consensus is on
using 8D type batteries over 6 volts. Is an 8D
basically two 6 volts in one package? To my novice
mind the 8D has the advantage of needing half as many
connections, therefore half the potential interface
problems and half the cabling. Also I see the larger
battery as more robust, and less affected by
temperature change. My thinking is the larger mass
will change temperature more slowly.
On a related topic, does anyone have experience with
these Lifeline batteries?
http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/marinebatteries.php
This person seems to like them for his marine usage.
http://www.vonwentzel.net/Battery/01.Type/index.html
John
____________________________________________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
http://new.mail.yahoo.com
_________________________________________________________________
Turn searches into helpful donations. Make your search count.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You may be good for now. The plywood may become conductive as it may
absorbed the acid fumes over times. If you keep good separation, you should
be ok. A coat of that sink and tube epoxy on any porous material will acid
proof it. That's what I did with by fiberglass battery boxes.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Kenigson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 6:12 PM
Subject: Re: my battery fire
> >
> > If you using 6 volt batteries, then that is 120 volts or 150 charge
> > voltage
> > between these batteries. If its 12 volt batteries, then its 240 volts
> > or
> > 300 charger volts!!
> >
> > Also between 19 and 2, 18 and 3 and etc will have a high voltage between
> > the
> > batteries.
> >
> > In a battery circuit loop system like this, it is best to have a
> > insulator
> > between these two rolls of batteries or try to have a gap between them.
>
>
> I have 6 volt batteries and they have a piece of 1/4" plywood between
> them.
> They are laid out like this: (best viewed in courier or some other
> mono-spaced font)
>
> -----------------------
> || 5 | 4 | 3 | 2 | 1-||
> ---------------------
> || 6 |17 |18 |19 |20+||
> -----------------------
> ||7 |16|15|14|13||
> || | | x| | ||
> ------------------
> ||8 |9 |10|11|12||
> || | | | | ||
> ------------------
>
> Where all of the ---- and || segments are plywood. Battery #15 is my
> melted
> post battery, thus the x. So I guess that means I have 120V between
> batteries 1&20, 2&19, 3&18, and 4&17. I guess the worst might be battery
> #s
> 6&17 and 7&16, since they should have 11x6=66v and 9x6=54v between them,
> respectively, without any separator. Am I understanding this correctly?
> Or
> is it 1 inclusive, so it would be 72v and 60v between them. Either way,
> should I accelerate my plans to redo the battery box?
>
> I'll do the testing you mentioned to see how bad surface conductance is
> and
> clean them as soon as I figure out how to do it safely -- see other
> thread.
>
>
> Matt
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How about Rolls? My father in law swears by them. He uses them for marine
applications.
Matt
On 1/31/07, Dave Davidson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
If you are referring to the 8D truck starting batteries, a few deep cycles
will kill them. However, at least one manufacturer (Concorde) has some 8D
sealed deep cycle batteries they're marketing to the RV crowd. I was
looking
at them for my motorhome. The only disadvantage I see is cost (between
$500
and $600 each, putting a 120 volt pack at $5000 to $6000, over twice the
cost of golf cart batteries). The ones I saw were 255 AH.
Dave
>From: xx xx <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: 8D verses 6 Volt batteries
>Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 16:52:08 -0800 (PST)
>
>I've been wondering what the general consensus is on
>using 8D type batteries over 6 volts. Is an 8D
>basically two 6 volts in one package? To my novice
>mind the 8D has the advantage of needing half as many
>connections, therefore half the potential interface
>problems and half the cabling. Also I see the larger
>battery as more robust, and less affected by
>temperature change. My thinking is the larger mass
>will change temperature more slowly.
>
>On a related topic, does anyone have experience with
>these Lifeline batteries?
>http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/marinebatteries.php
>This person seems to like them for his marine usage.
>http://www.vonwentzel.net/Battery/01.Type/index.html
>
>John
>
>
>
>____________________________________________________________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
>http://new.mail.yahoo.com
>
_________________________________________________________________
Turn searches into helpful donations. Make your search count.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Matt,
For the last 31 years, I been using Whitaker Battery Cleaner Spray. It a
clear cleaner that does not leave any white residue. I just flood the
entire tops with this cleaner, which also is a protective.
I just wipe off the excess with paper towels. To get under all the links
and tight areas, I wrap a folded paper towel around a wood paint stick for
these areas.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Kenigson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 5:52 PM
Subject: Battery Washing, was: Re: my battery fire
> Great advice, thank you!
>
> I've actually been apprehensive about cleaning my batteries because I
> don't
> know how to do it safely. They're actually in pretty bad shape (lots of
> sticky residue on tops) but I have been cleaning the posts every so often
> with baking soda and water. Some posts get messy pretty fast, though.
>
> So, is it safe to just use a wet rag to wash off the tops of the
> batteries?
> Maybe using a solution of baking soda in the water? How careful do I have
> to be around the posts? I'm guessing I should wear rubber gloves (and
> rubber boots) and do it outside, but it's pretty cold these days. Do I
> need
> to get some heavy-duty rubber gloves to do this? Is there some type of
> fabric/sponge/material that's best for this type of maintenance?
>
> Matt
>
> On 1/31/07, Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Matt Kenigson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 12:27 PM
> > Subject: Re: my battery fire
> >
> >
> > > Roland,
> > >
> > > Perhaps I misunderstand your post, but should I be concerned about my
> > > setup? In my pack, battery #1 and battery #20, which go in and out
> > > from
> > > the
> > > pack, are right next to each other.
> > >
> > > Matt
> > >
> > If you using 6 volt batteries, then that is 120 volts or 150 charge
> > voltage
> > between these batteries. If its 12 volt batteries, then its 240 volts
> > or
> > 300 charger volts!!
> >
> > Also between 19 and 2, 18 and 3 and etc will have a high voltage between
> > the
> > batteries.
> >
> > In a battery circuit loop system like this, it is best to have a
> > insulator
> > between these two rolls of batteries or try to have a gap between them.
> >
> > Take a volt meter reading of any one of the batteries to the battery
> > case
> > to
> > see how much voltage tracking you have. Between battery #1 and #20 you
> > may
> > find as you hold one test lead on one post and move the other along the
> > top
> > of the battery case, you may find that voltage may increase from 0 to
> > over
> > 60 volts when you get to the edge of the battery.
> >
> > This means there is voltage conducting from battery 1 to battery 20 or
> > between any two pair of batteries.
> >
> > If I notice this tracking between my two batteries that have a 72 volt
> > difference, then its time to clean them.
> >
> > Roland
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sink and Tube Epoxy? Maybe something like DAP Weldwood?
Matt
On 1/31/07, Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
You may be good for now. The plywood may become conductive as it may
absorbed the acid fumes over times. If you keep good separation, you
should
be ok. A coat of that sink and tube epoxy on any porous material will acid
proof it. That's what I did with by fiberglass battery boxes.
Roland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dave Davidson wrote:
> The only disadvantage I see is cost (between $500
> and $600 each, putting a 120 volt pack at $5000 to $6000,
> over twice the cost of golf cart batteries).
The other disadvantage is that an 8D weighs about 2x (or more, 162lbs
for the Concorde Lifeline 8D deep cycle referred to by the original
poster). This makes them considerable more difficult to manhandle
into/out of the vehicle than 60-odd pound GC batteries.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
No, its Sink and Tub epoxy coating. You can get it at Home Depot. It is a
two part mix, for coating old porcelain sinks. Great for coating fiberglass
which makes it a hard gloss finish.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Kenigson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 6:47 PM
Subject: Re: my battery fire
> Sink and Tube Epoxy? Maybe something like DAP Weldwood?
>
> Matt
>
> On 1/31/07, Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > You may be good for now. The plywood may become conductive as it may
> > absorbed the acid fumes over times. If you keep good separation, you
> > should
> > be ok. A coat of that sink and tube epoxy on any porous material will
> > acid
> > proof it. That's what I did with by fiberglass battery boxes.
> >
> > Roland
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Another Thanks to everyone involved with BBB, had a great time!! The
Autocross the second day definitely adds to the enjoyment and shows how EVs
excel in another auto sport. Hope to see you all again at the Power of DC.
Some sad news on the guy who crashed his Harley he did not make it.
James
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
No I was referring to the 8D deep cycle batteries.
Some are listed at more than twice the life cycle of a
T-105.
--- Dave Davidson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If you are referring to the 8D truck starting
> batteries, a few deep cycles
> will kill them. However, at least one manufacturer
> (Concorde) has some 8D
> sealed deep cycle batteries they're marketing to the
> RV crowd. I was looking
> at them for my motorhome. The only disadvantage I
> see is cost (between $500
> and $600 each, putting a 120 volt pack at $5000 to
> $6000, over twice the
> cost of golf cart batteries). The ones I saw were
> 255 AH.
>
> Dave
>
>
> >From: xx xx <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [email protected]
> >To: [email protected]
> >Subject: 8D verses 6 Volt batteries
> >Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 16:52:08 -0800 (PST)
> >
> >I've been wondering what the general consensus is
> on
> >using 8D type batteries over 6 volts. Is an 8D
> >basically two 6 volts in one package? To my novice
> >mind the 8D has the advantage of needing half as
> many
> >connections, therefore half the potential interface
> >problems and half the cabling. Also I see the
> larger
> >battery as more robust, and less affected by
> >temperature change. My thinking is the larger mass
> >will change temperature more slowly.
> >
> >On a related topic, does anyone have experience
> with
> >these Lifeline batteries?
>
>http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/marinebatteries.php
> >This person seems to like them for his marine
> usage.
>
>http://www.vonwentzel.net/Battery/01.Type/index.html
> >
> >John
> >
> >
> >
>
>____________________________________________________________________________________
> >Do you Yahoo!?
> >Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail
> beta.
> >http://new.mail.yahoo.com
> >
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
> Turn searches into helpful donations. Make your
> search count.
>
http://click4thecause.live.com/search/charity/default.aspx?source=hmemtagline_donation&FORM=WLMTAG
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
(and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/265
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry Tony as far as I know the Maya-100 is and was the only one. I think
Electrovaya has now built a Mini Copper into an EV and is trying to get into
the European market. This is all the info I could get out of someone in the
Toronto EAA chapter that has dealings with Electrovaya.
James
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
On 1/30/07, Tony Hwang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
http://www.electrovaya.com/av/ZEV_video.mpg
You guys might have seen this already, but it's the first time I've seen
it, and it looks really cool! Anyone have any ideas as to the
cost/availability of this car?
- Tony
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It'd be a good workout ;^) Plus with sealed AGM's I
don't think I'd be taking them in and out more than
once in their lifetime.
John
--- Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The other disadvantage is that an 8D weighs about 2x
> (or more, 162lbs
> for the Concorde Lifeline 8D deep cycle referred to
> by the original
> poster). This makes them considerable more
> difficult to manhandle
> into/out of the vehicle than 60-odd pound GC
> batteries.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know.
Ask your question on www.Answers.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here is a start for your search. Go to: http://nl.newsbank.com Then go to
search and type in Zap. The articles start about the fourth one down. I
would be willing to bet that Zap has generated more press releases than even
Chaz Haba or Joseph Lastrella. That isn't the only paper they generate. Who
knows, they may even come out with electric toilet tissue eventually. You
may find this report of interest. The litigation section toward the bottom
was of interest. http://www.secinfo.com/d1znFa.v1n4.htm
Roderick Wilde
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 1:56 PM
Subject: Re: EVLN(Lotus' 644hp E-SUV, 350mi range, 155mph top speed)
OK, what is it with ZAP and its business practices then ?
I realize this is a public forum etc, but i did search the archives
here and i didnt find anything that would explain these comments...
Care to provide a link to some reading material for newer members ? Or
just some key words to google on ?
-kert
On 1/31/07, Roderick Wilde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
This is all extremely bizarre beyond words. I had always thought of Lotus
as
a reputable business building quality products. Sometimes you are viewed
by
the world with the company you keep. If anyone has some thoughts on the
subject you can always write to Lotus Engineering at
http://www.grouplotus.com/contact/general_enquiry.php?section=17 Maybe
they
are just extremely ignorant and need to be educated or maybe they have a
new
policy of not caring what people think of their business practices.
Roderick Wilde
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 12:28 PM
Subject: Re: EVLN(Lotus' 644hp E-SUV, 350mi range, 155mph top speed)
There is more detailed report on CNET:
http://news.com.com/2100-11389_3-6154854.html
The important bits:
to be on sale by the end of 2008
350 miles range
155mph
10-min recharge capability
cost target: $60 000
CNET reporter dropped in a link to Altair ..
If this was for real, i'd buy it. Thats basically the specs for a
dream car PLUS its a Lotus
The pricetag would be justified.
/kert
On 1/31/07, Roderick Wilde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Here is a six letter word for you: Touché!
>
> Roderick Wilde
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 10:37 AM
> Subject: Re: EVLN(Lotus' 644hp E-SUV, 350mi range, 155mph top speed)
>
>
> > On 30 Jan 2007 at 20:23, bruce parmenter wrote:
> >
> >> ... all-electric SUV ... codeveloped by Lotus and ZAP ...
> >
> > Let me guess. This news release came from Zap, not Lotus.
> >
> > [Uncovers eyes.] Was I right? Did I win? ;-)
> >
> > Perhaps I'm just a cynic. But it seems to me that Zap and the late,
> > unlamented BAT have more in common than a 3-letter name.
> >
> > David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> > EV List Administrator
> >
> > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> > Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
> > or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> > Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
> > To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
> > the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
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> >
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>
>
>
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Matt,
IMHO:
I strongly encourage all to only use distilled water to water your
wet-cell batteries. Do not water that is labeled for batteries,
etc. The price of distilled water is cheap, the price of batteries
are not.
In my past, I purposely tried various trials to prove what works
and what does not. Circa 1992 I watered my second new pack using
water labeled for batteries created using a de-ionization process.
The pack life and performance was less than a new pack watered with
distilled water. Do not trust any water coming from a vending
machine. Nor should you use any water labeled drinking water.
There is just too much variance of labeling of what is clean enough
water for batteries. I have found if the water is labeled
'distilled water' then you have a very good probability of buying
good water for your wet-cell pack.
I was buying 'distilled water' in gallon plastic jugs for $.80 a
gallon at my local KMART. Recently my local store stopped carrying
it. A search for other 'distilled water' sources, let me find it at
my local grocery store for $1/gallon, or $.80/gallon at my local
Walmart.
Gallon jugs of 'distilled water' works best for me as they are easy
to store and retrieve for my monthly watering. When I water I use a
dedicated garden sprayer with the spray tip removed so it now
squirts.
[
http://shop.com.edgesuite.net/ccimg.catalogcity.com/220000/225500/225560/products/9144273.jpg
~about $10]
With the wet-cell battery caps off, a couple of pumps of the
sprayer, and I can finish my watering of 66 cells in about 15
minutes.
Always water your pack after you have fully charged your wet-cell
pack.
When I charge at less than 10 amps off a 110VAC outlet over night,
I will use less than 1 gallon of distilled water each month. When I
do fast charging everyday like off an AVCON (208VAC 40amp) source
or more (faster), I can use more water (almost 2 gallons).
With your BC_20 set correctly, and an occasional overcharge to
balance your pack and finish your charge, I suspect you will use
less than 1 gallon of water per month.
By the way, the monthly watering is the time you also should clean
the tops of your pack with a mild windows cleaner (like the blue
Windex stuff) before you remove the caps, and after you replace the
caps.
The cleaner is a mild base solution that mildly neutralizes acid
spray that comes from the slight over charge of balancing your
pack.
Also, every three waterings, I check my terminal connections. With
the pack circuit open (I pull my red-knob that breaks the circuit),
I use a couple of 1/2 inch wrenches to make sure the cables are
tightly fastened. Take care not to short the wrenches on battery
terminals (you will let the smoke out!).
Good Luck.
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
____________________________________________________________________________________
No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
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--- Begin Message ---
i sent jessie james and that other bike show emails last year requesting they
make an electric bike, neither returned my email
as to custom motorcycles is the law now that you can build more than one
bike, but can only own one at a time?
lyle sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
The emmission standards had tightened of the last 2
years restricting many once allowed engine styles to
be reduced to just a few. Of the ones available, they
are not of the aircooled variety, but require
radiators. In addition, restrictions have tightened
to only allow to own one custom motorcycle IN YOUR
LIFE TIME. This doesnt include the increased
restrictions against custom painters. Many in the
motorcycle community feel that this is a direct attack
on their lifestyle, personal freedom to own property,
and against small business owners in their specialty
field.
--- Chip Gribben wrote:
> Just saw Jessie James of West Coast Choppers was
> fined $275,000 by
> the CARB for violating emission regulations on his
> customer's
> motorcycles. It was like 50 custom bikes he made
> that were in
> violation. Ouch.
>
> Think of the electric motorcycles you could build
> for $275,000.
>
> Chip
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
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--- Begin Message ---
That's a shame. I had the pleasure of meeting him on the tech line. He was a
very nice gentleman.
----- Original Message -----
From: "james s" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 9:54 PM
Subject: Re: Battery Beach, OJ, and Swamp Buggies
Another Thanks to everyone involved with BBB, had a great time!! The
Autocross the second day definitely adds to the enjoyment and shows how
EVs
excel in another auto sport. Hope to see you all again at the Power of
DC.
Some sad news on the guy who crashed his Harley he did not make it.
James
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Peugeot Dauphin E-tricycle, 186mi range, 90mph top speed)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://blog.scifi.com/tech/archives/2007/01/30/peugeot_dauphin.html
POSTED Tuesday, January 30, 2007
Peugeot Dauphin: Electric vehicle concept is fast and efficient
This little Peugeot Dauphin might look like a harmless toy
tricycle, but it's a sophisticated concept for a full-fledged
electric vehicle by Portuguese designer Ricardo Baiao. It doesn't
make those horsey sound effects like that Girasole electric car
we showed you yesterday, but it certainly surpasses it in
distance, going 186 miles on a six-hour charge compared to the
Girasole's mere 75-mile range.
The Dauphin gets its smoothly rounded looks thanks to its highly
advanced carbon-fiber and epoxy-resin materials. This is a
wirelessly connected vehicle, too, communicating effortlessly
with your home PC so you can call up maps and directions, viewing
them on the vehicleâs heads-up display.
It's no slouch when it comes to performance, either. Pushing the
techno-tryke up to 90 mph are electric motors embedded in each
rear wheel, and once you get home, you charge the vehicle up
again by simply parking it over the Peugeot Dock/Recharging
station. It's all so effortless your only problem will be
convincing your neighbors that it's not a UFO.
Feast your eyes on more pictures of the Dauphin after the jump.
Charlie White © 2007, SCI FI. All rights reserved.
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
____________________________________________________________________________________
Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection.
Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jay,
FYI, Is anyone interested in an E-max Standard for parts or repair? Located In
Gainsville FL
http://tinyurl.com/2j3xqu
Gman
> From:
> Date: 2007/01/31 Wed AM 10:19:29 EST
> To:
> Subject: Re: Re: Debating purchasing an EV
>
> >
> > From: Jay Paroline
> >
> > As to the suggestion to look up other EVers in FL, so far I haven't
> > had any luck finding any in or near my area (Gainesville), but I will
> > keep looking!
> >
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Matt Kenigson
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 5:44 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: 8D verses 6 Volt batteries
How about Rolls? My father in law swears by them. He uses them for marine
applications.
Matt
On 1/31/07, Dave Davidson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> If you are referring to the 8D truck starting batteries, a few deep cycles
> will kill them. However, at least one manufacturer (Concorde) has some 8D
> sealed deep cycle batteries they're marketing to the RV crowd. I was
> looking
> at them for my motorhome. The only disadvantage I see is cost (between
> $500
> and $600 each, putting a 120 volt pack at $5000 to $6000, over twice the
> cost of golf cart batteries). The ones I saw were 255 AH.
>
> Dave
>
>
> >From: xx xx <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [email protected]
> >To: [email protected]
> >Subject: 8D verses 6 Volt batteries
> >Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 16:52:08 -0800 (PST)
> >
> >I've been wondering what the general consensus is on
> >using 8D type batteries over 6 volts. Is an 8D
> >basically two 6 volts in one package? To my novice
> >mind the 8D has the advantage of needing half as many
> >connections, therefore half the potential interface
> >problems and half the cabling. Also I see the larger
> >battery as more robust, and less affected by
> >temperature change. My thinking is the larger mass
> >will change temperature more slowly.
> >
> >On a related topic, does anyone have experience with
> >these Lifeline batteries?
> >http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/marinebatteries.php
> >This person seems to like them for his marine usage.
> >http://www.vonwentzel.net/Battery/01.Type/index.html
> >
> >John
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
_________
> >Do you Yahoo!?
> >Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
> >http://new.mail.yahoo.com
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Turn searches into helpful donations. Make your search count.
>
>
http://click4thecause.live.com/search/charity/default.aspx?source=hmemtaglin
e_donation&FORM=WLMTAG
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi John,
If you look for alternatives - Universal Power Group has a UB-8D
AGM battery specified at 12V 250Ah and suggested retail is $530
but the price for a $2500 order is $264 each ($2640 for 10, with
free shipping) at dealer pricing.
Indeed they are heavier than you can lift yourself, so you need
an engine hoist or something like that.
Personally I prefer to stay with the 71 lbs of the UB121100 as
a max weight that you can wrestle out of a battery box single-
handedly, these are 12V 110Ah.
That means either higher system voltage or parallel strings
to maintain the same energy.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Dave Davidson
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 5:35 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: 8D verses 6 Volt batteries
If you are referring to the 8D truck starting batteries, a few deep cycles
will kill them. However, at least one manufacturer (Concorde) has some 8D
sealed deep cycle batteries they're marketing to the RV crowd. I was looking
at them for my motorhome. The only disadvantage I see is cost (between $500
and $600 each, putting a 120 volt pack at $5000 to $6000, over twice the
cost of golf cart batteries). The ones I saw were 255 AH.
Dave
>From: xx xx <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: 8D verses 6 Volt batteries
>Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2007 16:52:08 -0800 (PST)
>
>I've been wondering what the general consensus is on
>using 8D type batteries over 6 volts. Is an 8D
>basically two 6 volts in one package? To my novice
>mind the 8D has the advantage of needing half as many
>connections, therefore half the potential interface
>problems and half the cabling. Also I see the larger
>battery as more robust, and less affected by
>temperature change. My thinking is the larger mass
>will change temperature more slowly.
>
>On a related topic, does anyone have experience with
>these Lifeline batteries?
>http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/marinebatteries.php
>This person seems to like them for his marine usage.
>http://www.vonwentzel.net/Battery/01.Type/index.html
>
>John
>
>
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
_________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
>http://new.mail.yahoo.com
>
_________________________________________________________________
Turn searches into helpful donations. Make your search count.
http://click4thecause.live.com/search/charity/default.aspx?source=hmemtaglin
e_donation&FORM=WLMTAG
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chris,
You mean the one in Menlo Park, CA, listing 300070153039?
That is around the corner from here!
The ad says: The seller ended this listing early because the item is no
longer available for sale.
This usually means that he has sold it locally.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Christopher Zach
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 4:28 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Where did the RAV4 go?
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> Yes. The if I come to your house with cash option. Lawrence
Which is why some auctions say "this can be terminated due to local
sale". If you don't have that, you should not end the auction early.
Otherwise it's a "de facto" reserve bid and not fair to people bidding.
Was that what happened? If so they took advantage of E-Bay.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 06:29 PM 31/01/07 -0600, Matt wrote:
I might go that route. With distilled water as much as $2.50 per gallon in
our grocery stores over here, I've been using (please don't flame me) water
from our fridge's built-in water purifier. I figured it probably doesn't
get all the minerals out, but it probably comes pretty close. Is this a
really bad idea?
I'll look at the Sears water purifier (what makes it different from my
fridge's built-in?) and see if I can't find anything online for water
distillation.
G'day Matt, and All
If your 'fridge has a built-in purifier, it may be just draining into a
collector the condensate that a 'normal' fridge drains down the back and
into a dish on top of the motor to evaporate away. Since the water in a
fridge gets there by condensing onto the chiller plate, that is distilled.
What happens after it is condensed may not keep it that way!
I made a still since we needed to supply our customers with high-quality
distilled water for bench-top steam sterilizers. I know it is high purity,
since I've had it analysed. Several times.
How to make a still for distilled water (continuous flow):
Get a good TIG welder (a person that is - beer seems to be very effective
as payment to metal fabrication people) if you are not so competent yourself.
To make the condenser, get a piece of 4" stainless steel pipe about 10 or
12 inches long, a bit of 1.5" tube and a length (6 meters here - about 20
feet) of 1/4" stainless tubing. Cut the tubing in half, and wind each half
into something like a spring (a lathe is good to do this with - grab a
piece of 3" bar and run the lathe slowly to wind the 'spring').
The 1 1/2" tube is welded sticking sideways close to one end of the 4" pipe
- it needs to stick out a couple of inches. Put one half of the 1/4" tube
in the upper part, with an inch or two sticking out part way down. The
other end needs to have about 8" sticking out. Try and get the coil
positioned fairly central to the 4" tube, and not blocking the 1 1/2" too
much. Put a flat lid on this end (top).
Now put the other coil in the 4" pipe, below the first one, with a few
inches sticking out each end. Make a stainless cone for the bottom & weld
it on.
The boiling chamber can be a small electric 'jug' - a kettle with sides
that taper out the higher they get that has no switch off system. An 800
watt 'jug' will give about 1 litre an hour. In order to stop the boiling
water from 'spitting' into the condensate, a baffle is needed - I cut two
discs of stainless and drilled four 3/4" holes in each, then bolted them
together about 1/2" apart so the holes didn't line up. A 1/4" hole through
both plates is needed. Cut a 1 1/2" hole in the side of the jug, close to
the top. This is for the condenser port. Cut another disc for a lid, with a
1/4" hole in it. Drill a hole in the side of the jug about 3/4" above the
bottom, and another about 1/4" above that - they are the outflow and
overflow, respectively - put about 2" of 1/4" tube sticking out of each,
curved down at the ends.
The long tube out of the condenser goes through the boiling chamber lid and
the baffles, ending up just above the bottom of the 'jug'. High temperature
silicon sealer attaches the lid and seals around the steam outlet - leave
an inch or so space between the condenser and the 'jug'.
Wrap the 'jug' in rockwool, fibreglass insulation, etc, to make it as
efficient as possible.
To the upper condenser tube, supply water through a small tap, turned on so
that the water flow once the boiler is filled comes out the outflow at
about 5 to 10 drips per second. This rate is needed to prevent mud build-up
in the chamber - your rate may vary. Turn the water off and switch power on
to the 'jug' - once it is boiling nicely, turn the condenser water back on
- after a few seconds you'll get drip-drip-drip... congratulations,
distilled water! but after a minute oops - there is steam coming out the
bottom of the condenser - this is what the second coil is for - add cooling
water here until the steam stops.
The outflow of the boiling chamber is at 100 celcius, so be careful with
it! the amount of water coming out here is not taking energy away from
distilled water production as the make-up water from the condenser is
entering at the same temperature. The second cooler overflow should be warm
or hot, but not boiling, the condensate will be warm as it comes out.
Throw away or drink the first few gallons of condensate - there will be
trace metals from the stainless steel that are not good for a battery -
there is not much there, but you'll soon have more distilled water than you
know what to do with, you can be generous with it.
Hope this helps
Regards
[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
