EV Digest 6383
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Greasing connections
by Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Pot box issues - need a source for replacement resistive element for PB-6
by Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Wiring a momentary voltage doubler for a contactor - diode?
by Steve Condie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) BBB pictures
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Disconnects. Was: Battery Washing
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Wiring a momentary voltage doubler for a contactor - diode?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Disconnects. Was: Battery Washing
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: BBB pictures
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: BBB pictures, Traction wiring inside the car.
by Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Hub Motor Gear Ratio, was RE: EV digest 6380
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: BBB pictures
by "BadFishRacing" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) The Weather Channel Climate Code features Tesla
by JS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) New web site
by "Tom Carpenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Wiring a momentary voltage doubler for a contactor - diode?
by Steve Condie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Getting juice from a light pole
by "Matt Kenigson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Rules, Insurance, Liability, Protests (was: BBB pictures)
by Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Getting juice from a light pole
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Wiring a momentary voltage doubler for a contactor - diode?
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Getting juice from a light pole
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Interesting e-bay find - several lift truck motors
by Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Disconnects
by Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: New web site
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: BBB pictures, Traction wiring inside the car.
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Disconnects
by Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Getting juice from a light pole
by "Ted C." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Speaking of Hybrids
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I have been coating my connectors with a film of Noalox before making the
connections on battery connections, bulbs, and sometimes, crimped fittings. A
recent post recommended coating with grease only after making the connection.
My reasoning is that the metal to metal connection will go through the grease
and be prevented from oxidation by the grease surrounding the contact area. Am
I doing it wrong?
Thanx,
storm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Looks like I need a new resistive element for my PB-6. You used to be able to
get just the element from Cloud EV, but they are closed. Anyone know where I
can get a new element for the 5k Curtis PB-6? Everything else looks god, just
the pot seems flakey.
Other than that, the Festiva works just fine. I got it all hooked up in the
car. Everything was fine, but the controller kept going full power. So, I
swapped out the pot with an elemet that I had on hand. Worked fine, but I need
one that actually fits into the PB-6 form factor.
I don't see a reason to get a whole new PB-6 when I can just change out the
pot.
Steve
---------------------------------
Looking for earth-friendly autos?
Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
(Comments below)
Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Steve Condie wrote:
> I used the circuit you describe (less diodes) at first, but it has the
> problem that you need yet another switch to turn it off. I changed to this
> circuit instead (ASCII art warning!!):
>
>
> o------ +
> / U
> + / cont.
> - - - - S1 o coil
> | \ U
> 12V \ U
> | o+ U
> | / | U
> | / --- U
> - - - - S2 o cap U
> gnd --- U
> \ | U
> \ | U
> o---------
>
Sure; that will work, too. Just needs a more complicated switch.
>>>Actually both circuits require a DPDT switch; Cor's just uses one pole as an
>>>on-off instead of either-or, and requires another switch to turn it off.
You get reverse voltage on the capacitor after it has discharged but is
still in series with the 12v powering the coil.
>>>This is what I was trying to figure out. I don't know enough about
>>>electronics to understand why this would be the case - but I'll have to take
>>>it on faith at this point because I can't envision the electron flow that
>>>would cause that to happen.
Cor's circuit has one diode in series with the capacitor - D1 - and one in
parallel as well - D2. What you wrote before was: "Once the capacitor
discharges, a diode applies the 12v continuously to hold it in."? Is D1 doing
the work you described? Or is D2? I envisioned a diode in parallel from your
description and couldn't figure out how it would work. It seemed to me as
though it would double the current but not the voltage if wired in parallel.
(I think the rest of Cor's diodes and resistors are duplicated by what I
believe to be existing surge suppressors on my contactors.)
This circuit also tries to charge the capacitor "instantly" when the
switch is down. This is pretty hard on the switch's contacts.
>>>>I'm using a relay rated for 5 amps which seems to be handling the current
>>>>OK. And my experimental result that a 3300 uF capacitor is sufficient
>>>>corroborates the 1250 uF you calculated in your other post for an Albright.
>>>> (The contactors I'm working with are pretty big - rated 800 amps - with
>>>>correspondingly beefy coils.)
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
---------------------------------
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
All,
I was looking at the pictures from the Battery Beach Burnout event on the
NEDRA.com website and noticed a couple of things (thanks Chip for putting
these up)...
BB
I'm wondering if these cars were drag raced under NEDRA, with the traction
pack wiring and SB-350 disconnect in the vehicle?
http://ntensedsign.com/bbb/pages/PICT0014_JPG.htm
http://ntensedsign.com/bbb/pages/PICT0017_JPG.htm
Nice use of the handy man's secret weapon, duct tape!
http://ntensedsign.com/bbb/pages/PICT0025_JPG.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John and All,
Having had one bad shock through the chest, while wearing gloves I remove
three interconnects to make 48 volt blocks, then I can safely work on the
pack without gloves. This is just a suggestion if you want to save money
and have fewer connections...
BB
>From: Rich Long <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2007 08:15:04 -0500
>
>On Sat, 2007-02-03 at 20:06 -0500, John O'Connor wrote:
>> I was planning on splitting my 144 v pack (roughly) in half and have
>> not had much luck finding a single pole (is that what it is called
>> when there os only one conductor?) anderson connector (or the
>> equivalent).
>
>
>Sometimes you can take those big Anderson connectors and cut them down
>the middle with a hacksaw and use each side separately.
>
>Rich
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
>>
>> o------ +
>> / U
>> + / cont.
>> - - - - S1 o coil
>> | \ U
>> 12V \ U
>> | o+ U
>> | / | U
>> | / --- U
>> - - - - S2 o cap U
>> gnd --- U
>> \ | U
>> \ | U
>> o---------
>>
>> You get reverse voltage on the capacitor after it has discharged but
>> is still in series with the 12v powering the coil.
From: Steve Condie
> This is what I was trying to figure out... I can't envision the electron flow
> that would cause that to happen.
When both switches are "up" (contactor on), current flows from +12v, through
the upper contact of S1, the contactor coil, *backwards* through the capacitor,
and back to GND. You have DC flowing in a capacitor. A perfect capacitor
wouldn't let such a current flow for long; it would charge up in the reverse
direction and then block. But an electrolytic is a partial short circuit in the
reverse direction. DC current *will* flow. This DC current also un-forms the
capacitor, wrecking it.
> Cor's circuit has one diode in series with the capacitor - D1 - and one in
> parallel as well - D2. What you wrote before was: "Once the capacitor
> discharges, a diode applies the 12v continuously to hold it in."? Is D1
> doing the work you described? Or is D2?
D1 carries the current when C is discharging. It stops carrying current when C
runs out of charge. D2 then takes over, and carries the contactor current. Cor
used 2 diodes so C won't see the -0.6v across D2.
> I think the rest of Cor's diodes and resistors are duplicated by what I
> believe to be existing surge suppressors on my contactors.
Yes; they are just insurance, in case you don't already have them. With
*nothing* across the contactor coil, its inductive kick on turn-off can be 100v
or more.
>> This circuit also tries to charge the capacitor "instantly" when the
>> switch is down. This is pretty hard on the switch's contacts.
> I'm using a relay rated for 5 amps which seems to be handling the
> current OK.
Watch the contacts when you switch to charge the capacitor -- you will see them
arcing. The internal resistance of the capacitor is very low, like 0.1 ohms. If
you switch it straight to the 12v battery, you could have a 120 amp surge! It
only lasts microseconds, but will still damage the contacts. So, you put some
kind of resistance in series to limit this current surge.
> And my experimental result that a 3300 uF capacitor is sufficient
> corroborates the 1250 uF you calculated in your other post for an
> Albright. The contactors I'm working with are pretty big - rated
> 800 amps - with correspondingly beefy coils.
An ohmmeter would tell you the coil resistance. That's what matters here.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins"
>Having had one bad shock through the chest, while wearing gloves I remove
>three interconnects to make 48 volt blocks, then I can safely work on the
>pack without gloves. This is just a suggestion if you want to save money
>and have fewer connections...
... and fewer shocks!
--
Stupidity is when you keep doing the same things and expect the results to
change -- Albert Einstein
--
Lee Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Dave, I had not looked at the pictures until now but I will immediately
forward this to the NEDRA board. Concerning the third picture which is a go
cart from what I can tell. Go carts are not legal in NHRA or NEDRA racing.
They did have auto cross races at BBB so it could have been entered there. I
am aware that some NHRA member tracks have allowed go carts to run down the
track. The problem arises in the case of an accident. The NHRA insurance
therefore would not apply. If a track owner wishes to stick his neck out it
is his to do so with. NEDRA does not have deep pockets so we follow NHRA
safety guidelines.
Roderick Wilde
NEDRA Board Member
----- Original Message -----
From: "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 1:18 PM
Subject: BBB pictures
All,
I was looking at the pictures from the Battery Beach Burnout event on the
NEDRA.com website and noticed a couple of things (thanks Chip for putting
these up)...
BB
I'm wondering if these cars were drag raced under NEDRA, with the traction
pack wiring and SB-350 disconnect in the vehicle?
http://ntensedsign.com/bbb/pages/PICT0014_JPG.htm
http://ntensedsign.com/bbb/pages/PICT0017_JPG.htm
Nice use of the handy man's secret weapon, duct tape!
http://ntensedsign.com/bbb/pages/PICT0025_JPG.htm
--
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.411 / Virus Database: 268.17.24/668 - Release Date: 2/4/2007
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lots of cars showed up to the rally and show 'n shine, but only a few
vehicles raced on the strip. If the picture was taken in daylight,
then it is likely from the show 'n shine, not the drag strip.
I was busy helping with Orange Juice, so I didn't get to look closely
at the other vehicles at the drag strip. Of the drag race vehicles I
did look at, the only one that seemed like it might have exposed
traction wiring in the driver's compartment was the solar-powered
three-wheeled vehicle. I'm not sure what its voltage was, however.
Of course, I had no role whatsoever in the technical inspection of
any of the drag racing vehicles.
I should note that it is a common problem to have traction wiring
inside the driver's compartment. The safety hazard is similar to
running a fuel line through the passenger compartment. It is too easy
to damage the wiring with boots, cargo, etc. and if there is a short,
the resulting plasma, copper snot, and smoke can injure the driver
and also cause the driver to lose control of the car.
You can always find "something" wrong with any vehicle during tech
inspection if you look closely enough and you _want_ to find
something "wrong." When you inspect the car, and you find something,
like exposed traction wiring, you ask yourself, "Is this going to
cause an accident during this event?" Often, if the problem is minor,
(and there is only one problem,) you will tell the owner about the
problem and say, "You need to get this corrected before you race again."
If the hazard is severe, you tell the person to fix it
before the car can race. I remember several years ago, I failed a
dragster because it had no chain guard. The drive chain was just a
few inches from the driver's neck. The crew ran to the hardware
store, bought a chunk of aluminum angle, and bolted it in place. I
then passed the car. The first run down the track, the chain broke
and dented the new chain guard quite noticeably. I saved the driver's
life by making them fix the car before it ran. Funny, they never did
thank me.... :-)
Bill Dube'
At 02:18 PM 2/4/2007, you wrote:
All,
I was looking at the pictures from the Battery Beach Burnout event on the
NEDRA.com website and noticed a couple of things (thanks Chip for putting
these up)...
BB
I'm wondering if these cars were drag raced under NEDRA, with the traction
pack wiring and SB-350 disconnect in the vehicle?
http://ntensedsign.com/bbb/pages/PICT0014_JPG.htm
http://ntensedsign.com/bbb/pages/PICT0017_JPG.htm
Nice use of the handy man's secret weapon, duct tape!
http://ntensedsign.com/bbb/pages/PICT0025_JPG.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Can you reduce the diameter of the wheel it is in? That would have the
same effect.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David,
If you look real close on the rear of the scooter, you can see that her name
is 'Hillbilly Delux'. An example of what a trashed free scooter, some spare
parts, and $2.99 can do.
Darin
BadFishRacing
----- Original Message -----
From: "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 4:18 PM
Subject: BBB pictures
All,
I was looking at the pictures from the Battery Beach Burnout event on the
NEDRA.com website and noticed a couple of things (thanks Chip for putting
these up)...
BB
Nice use of the handy man's secret weapon, duct tape!
http://ntensedsign.com/bbb/pages/PICT0025_JPG.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just finished watching the Climate Code listing their top 10
stories of 2006. Tesla was number 8 (if I remember correctly).
http://climate.weather.com/ontv/climateCode_thisWeek.html?cm_ven=one_deg_cc&cm_ite=one_deg_header&from=one_deg_header
This show repeats next Saturday 2 or 3 times. The preceding
half-hour is also worth watching.
John in Sylmar, CA
PV EV
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have been working on my new web site for my EV. If interested here it is.
http://webpages.charter.net/ki8as/index.html
Tom
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<realization slowly dawning>
Thank you again, Lee, for your patient and tireless help. I alway feel like I
should be sending someone a tuition check after one of these sets of posts. So
I need a diode in parallel with the capacitor to bypass it after it's
discharged, so it doesn't have to carry current "backwards". A second one in
series with the cap to ward off the errant .6 volts wouldn't hurt either, but
probably isn't critical. And I should put a precharge resistor of some kind in
the "off" circuit to protect my switch contacts when the contactor is switched
off.
I checked the coil's ohms and they're around 30 or so so your calculation for
the capacitor explains why the 3300 uF one worked, although the trial and error
was fun.
Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Lee Hart wrote:
>>
>> o------ +
>> / U
>> + / cont.
>> - - - - S1 o coil
>> | \ U
>> 12V \ U
>> | o+ U
>> | / | U
>> | / --- U
>> - - - - S2 o cap U
>> gnd --- U
>> \ | U
>> \ | U
>> o---------
>>
>> You get reverse voltage on the capacitor after it has discharged but
>> is still in series with the 12v powering the coil.
From: Steve Condie
> This is what I was trying to figure out... I can't envision the electron flow
> that would cause that to happen.
When both switches are "up" (contactor on), current flows from +12v, through
the upper contact of S1, the contactor coil, *backwards* through the capacitor,
and back to GND. You have DC flowing in a capacitor. A perfect capacitor
wouldn't let such a current flow for long; it would charge up in the reverse
direction and then block. But an electrolytic is a partial short circuit in the
reverse direction. DC current *will* flow. This DC current also un-forms the
capacitor, wrecking it.
> Cor's circuit has one diode in series with the capacitor - D1 - and one in
> parallel as well - D2. What you wrote before was: "Once the capacitor
> discharges, a diode applies the 12v continuously to hold it in."? Is D1
> doing the work you described? Or is D2?
D1 carries the current when C is discharging. It stops carrying current when C
runs out of charge. D2 then takes over, and carries the contactor current. Cor
used 2 diodes so C won't see the -0.6v across D2.
> I think the rest of Cor's diodes and resistors are duplicated by what I
> believe to be existing surge suppressors on my contactors.
Yes; they are just insurance, in case you don't already have them. With
*nothing* across the contactor coil, its inductive kick on turn-off can be 100v
or more.
>> This circuit also tries to charge the capacitor "instantly" when the
>> switch is down. This is pretty hard on the switch's contacts.
> I'm using a relay rated for 5 amps which seems to be handling the
> current OK.
Watch the contacts when you switch to charge the capacitor -- you will see them
arcing. The internal resistance of the capacitor is very low, like 0.1 ohms. If
you switch it straight to the 12v battery, you could have a 120 amp surge! It
only lasts microseconds, but will still damage the contacts. So, you put some
kind of resistance in series to limit this current surge.
> And my experimental result that a 3300 uF capacitor is sufficient
> corroborates the 1250 uF you calculated in your other post for an
> Albright. The contactors I'm working with are pretty big - rated
> 800 amps - with correspondingly beefy coils.
An ohmmeter would tell you the coil resistance. That's what matters here.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
---------------------------------
Have a burning question? Go to Yahoo! Answers and get answers from real people
who know.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Howdy,
I work at one of those modern marble, steel, and glass office
buildings that have gotten popular of late. It was built with
absolutely no external outlets. I talked to the building manager and
asked if there was any way I could pay to have an outlet installed on
one of the dozens of light poles that can be found in the parking area
surrounding the building. He said they might be able to get something
like that approved but he doesn't know if it's technically feasable.
He said that in order to reduce conduction losses and use less
expensive wiring, the power to the poles is delivered at a high
voltage. I don't recall the exact voltage he said, but I think it may
have been around 480 volts. I have no idea what the amperage is.
I suppose I really need to find out the precise specs. I was hoping,
though, to be able to do a little research into transformers and get a
general idea of what the cost and physical dimensions might be before
engaging the building management in a more serious discussion about
the project. Plus, I'd like to find out if it's possible to do
something like this in a way that I could possibly take with me if I
change jobs sometime in the future.
If I can just get 5A for eight hours while I'm in the building, it
will give me the ability to go out for lunch and raise my range by
50%. To me, that's a slam-dunk.
Anyway, can you guys (and gals) give me any pointers on where to start
looking and what kinds of options I might have. Obviously, it would
help if I had precise specs but anything you can do to help me prepare
for the conversation would be really appreciated. Thanks!
Matt
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The insurance and liability works a lot differently than most people think.
>>>> Insurance: <<<<<
First, when you pay your participant's fee at an NHRA track, you are
automatically covered by $15,000 of supplementary medical insurance.
If it is an NHRA sanctioned event, and you are an NHRA member, that
goes up to a total of $500,000. (They pay if you are injured while
driving, regardless of the cause or what you were driving.) Thus, you
would be very wise to pay the $64 NHRA membership fee if you are driving.
http://store.nhra.com/product.asp?3=9
>>>> Liability: <<<<<<<
If you read the liability waiver you signed to get on the track, you
will discover that you are basically "on your own" and will have a
very tough time getting any money from anyone should you be injured.
These folks have spent years fine-tuning these liability waivers and
they are darn close to air-tight.
If your vehicle is in violation of the NHRA rules, you have no hope
of collecting anything from anyone if that violation is what caused
the accident. The inspector is not required to completely inspect
your vehicle or find every violation. It is your responsibility to
comply with the rules.
If, somehow, following the rules is what caused the accident, this is
an entirely different kettle of fish. The sanctioning body is exposed
to liability in this case. If the sanctioning body were to say, "Roll
bars are not allowed" for example, and you were injured because you
didn't have a roll bar, this opens the liability door widely.
>>>>> Protests: <<<<<<<<
In the NHRA, protests are limited to the span of the event. If one of
the competitors sees something wrong with another person's vehicle,
they can call it to the official's attention during the event. The
officials may then opt to re-inspect and perhaps disqualify the
vehicle. Once the event is over, however, the protest period is over.
The results stands as they are.
If you think about it, this is the only sane way to do it. Otherwise,
it would be an endless and hopeless stream of protests that the
officials could no longer confirm or over-rule. The track inspector
has made the call and the event is now over. Just like an umpire, the
call is the final word when the game is over. It only makes sense.
Indeed, it is important to note safety issues so that folks can be
aware of the problems and correct them for the next event (so they
won't be disqualified then.) No doubt, everyone will be looking more
carefully during the next event for these issues raised after the
event is over.
>>> Exhibition Class <<<
You can run darn near anything down the drag strip in the
"Exhibition Class". There are some very general rules, but it is
pretty much up to the track official's discretion as to whether to
let you on the track or not. This is how EVs were allowed to drag
race before NEDRA came on the scene. This is how snowmobiles started
drag racing before they were an official NHRA class.
Someday, I'd like to build an electric snowmobile to drag
race. Since there is no present class for electric snowmobiles, it
would race as an exhibition vehicle.
Bill Dube'
At 03:06 PM 2/4/2007, you wrote:
Hi Dave, I had not looked at the pictures until now but I will
immediately forward this to the NEDRA board. Concerning the third
picture which is a go cart from what I can tell. Go carts are not
legal in NHRA or NEDRA racing. They did have auto cross races at BBB
so it could have been entered there. I am aware that some NHRA
member tracks have allowed go carts to run down the track. The
problem arises in the case of an accident. The NHRA insurance
therefore would not apply. If a track owner wishes to stick his neck
out it is his to do so with. NEDRA does not have deep pockets so we
follow NHRA safety guidelines.
Roderick Wilde
NEDRA Board Member
----- Original Message ----- From: "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 1:18 PM
Subject: BBB pictures
All,
I was looking at the pictures from the Battery Beach Burnout event on the
NEDRA.com website and noticed a couple of things (thanks Chip for putting
these up)...
BB
I'm wondering if these cars were drag raced under NEDRA, with the traction
pack wiring and SB-350 disconnect in the vehicle?
http://ntensedsign.com/bbb/pages/PICT0014_JPG.htm
http://ntensedsign.com/bbb/pages/PICT0017_JPG.htm
Nice use of the handy man's secret weapon, duct tape!
http://ntensedsign.com/bbb/pages/PICT0025_JPG.htm
--
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.411 / Virus Database: 268.17.24/668 - Release Date: 2/4/2007
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: Matt Kenigson
> I talked to the building manager and asked if there was any way
> I could pay to have an outlet installed on one of the dozens of light
> poles that can be found in the parking area surrounding the building.
> He said they might be able to get something like that approved but
> he doesn't know if it's technically feasable.
This is easy from a purely electrical viewpoint. Parking lot lighting is often
277/480v 3-phase, with equal groups of lights on each phase to balance the
load. 277/480 means there is 277vac from any of the 3 phase wires to neutral,
and 480vac between any two phase wires.
All you need them to do is install a standard receptacle in a little box with a
weatherproof cover (and maybe a lock, if they imagine anyone would want to fool
with it or steal power). The smallest standard connector is 15 amps, which
should be more than enough. It could a blade type or twist-lock. These are not
common on household appliances, so it is extremely unlikely that any normal
person will have anything that could plug into it anyway.
For your EV, you need a 277vac or 480vac stepdown transformer. Again, these are
common electrical items.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here is my variation of this circuit. I don't know if its any better or
worse that what others have provided, it is what popped into my head
reading this thread before Cor posted his version of Lee's circuit
(that is likely somewhere in my EV list archives - but I wanted to
think it out first.)
off on
+12v o----+------o\ o----------+---+
| SW1 \ | |
| o < | coil
| | R2 < |_ 24v
| +-+-+ < _|
| | | | _|
| --- --- --- _|
on o C1 --- /_\ D1 D2 /_\ |
| | | |
SW1 /o-----+---+ +---|
/ |
off o-^^^-+ |
R1 | |
GND o-----------+-------------------+
SW1 is a DPDT (Double Pole Double Throw) switch, relay, or whatever
suits the builder.
C1 is around 1500uF or more (thanx Lee for running the numbers) I
suppose a non-polarized electrolytic cap should be used due to a slight
reverse polarity (about 0.7 volts) on it when the contactor is on.
R1 is included to limit the inrush current when charging the cap (off
position.)
R2 and D2 are a snubber for the contactor, not strictly required but
its a lot easier on the switch.
Paul "neon" G.
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
George Orwell, "1984"
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Matt,
In are parking lot at work, I use a Square D Type SK Transformer Disconnect
that was install on the pole. We have 480/277 3 phase 4 wire going to each
street light, but with 277 volt drop to each light.
The enclosure contain any size transformer you spec that may be have a 277
or 480 volt primary and a 120 volt secondary. If you want to pull all of 20
amps on a 120 VAC receptacle, then you will need a 3000 va or 3kva
transformer or 1.5kva for 10 amp.
This enclosure must be a Nema Type 12 which is weather proof. You have to
spec a Door Mounted GFIC receptacle and a optional locking switch. It will
come with 600 volt primary fuses and optional 250 volt secondary fuses.
The part No. for the 3kva is SK3000A2D1 for 20 amps.
or a SK1500A2D1 for 10 amps
or a SK750A2D1 for 5 amps
All these will cost about $1000.00 to $1500.00.
To install the box on the pole, use two pole galvanize band clamps that have
tabs for mounting two length of Kindorf channel. The Nema 12 box has
mounting taps, top and bottom, where you fasten the box with four locking
insert nuts.
If the feed is from the underground, then there should be a access cover at
the base. The Nema 12 box, has knockout at the bottom, so you need to
install length of water tite conduit to just above the access cover. Hole
saw into the pole and install LB (cast conduit elbow with cover) to a 7/8
inch hole you hole saw above the access cover.
Install a conduit nipple with two locknuts and a bushing. You will be able
to reach in threw the access cover to install a locknut and bushing on the
nipple in the inside.
If the feeders come in overhead, then you must install a watertight conduit
hub on the top of the box and run water tight conduit with water tight
conduit couplers and box connectors or use galvanized rigid conduit. On the
top about 8 inches below the conductors, you install a weather head.
The wires you install must be 600 volt rated, type THW or THWN copper
stranded. Rated at the main feeder ampere. Normally this may be 50 amps,
so this must be at least a No. 6 AWG wire.
If the parking lot street lights are a lease type from a power company, than
you have to contact the power company and a electrical shop for installing.
Sometimes because it may not be meter, they will allow you to purchase all
the items, and make up the service. Then the power company will help you
hang the top portion of the mast while they connect it out.
The latter is what I had to do and had to install a meter base above the
power box.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Kenigson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 4:33 PM
Subject: Getting juice from a light pole
> Howdy,
>
> I work at one of those modern marble, steel, and glass office
> buildings that have gotten popular of late. It was built with
> absolutely no external outlets. I talked to the building manager and
> asked if there was any way I could pay to have an outlet installed on
> one of the dozens of light poles that can be found in the parking area
> surrounding the building. He said they might be able to get something
> like that approved but he doesn't know if it's technically feasable.
>
> He said that in order to reduce conduction losses and use less
> expensive wiring, the power to the poles is delivered at a high
> voltage. I don't recall the exact voltage he said, but I think it may
> have been around 480 volts. I have no idea what the amperage is.
>
> I suppose I really need to find out the precise specs. I was hoping,
> though, to be able to do a little research into transformers and get a
> general idea of what the cost and physical dimensions might be before
> engaging the building management in a more serious discussion about
> the project. Plus, I'd like to find out if it's possible to do
> something like this in a way that I could possibly take with me if I
> change jobs sometime in the future.
>
> If I can just get 5A for eight hours while I'm in the building, it
> will give me the ability to go out for lunch and raise my range by
> 50%. To me, that's a slam-dunk.
>
> Anyway, can you guys (and gals) give me any pointers on where to start
> looking and what kinds of options I might have. Obviously, it would
> help if I had precise specs but anything you can do to help me prepare
> for the conversation would be really appreciated. Thanks!
>
> Matt
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In 85679, Matt Kensington asked about disconnects. The pictures from the BBB
show a number of instances of the Anderson plugs being used,. See
http://ntensedsign.com/bbb/pages/PICT0014_JPG.htm for an example. Judging by
the number of occurrences, someone must be marketing a mount and handle for the
Andersons.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 06:05 PM 4/02/07 -0500, you wrote:
I have been working on my new web site for my EV. If interested here it is.
http://webpages.charter.net/ki8as/index.html
Tom
G'day Tom
(Yeah, next question) just wondering how you are cooling your Curtis?
Nice web site so far, BTW.
Regards
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Solar 3 wheeler was 48 volts as described by the
website www.xlr8sun.com. A light weight production
vehicle no less. I looked it up as I thought it was
interesting. While 48 volts is not too bad it should
be covered.
Anyone want to fess up who owns the +rev it was
picture 23. I have some personal questions regarding
the frame and suspension system. Who ever can contact
me directly.
--- Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
-Snip-
Of the drag race vehicles I did look at, the only one
that seemed like it might have exposed traction wiring
in the driver's compartment was the solar-powered
three-wheeled vehicle. I'm not sure what its voltage
was, however.
-Snip-
____________________________________________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
http://new.mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Installing a big Anderson connector between the pack and the rest of
the vehicle is a terrific idea. I highly recommend it. If you install
one of those lever style handles to make it easy to take apart and
re-connect, that is even better. If you put some sort of cable or
linkage that allows you to disconnect the pack from the driver's
seat, that is even better yet.
When you are working on the car, it is really helpful to be able to
easily "pull the plug" on the traction pack so all the rest of the
wiring is guaranteed to be dead.
Bill Dube'
At 06:46 PM 2/4/2007, you wrote:
In 85679, Matt Kensington asked about disconnects. The pictures from
the BBB show a number of instances of the Anderson plugs being
used,. See http://ntensedsign.com/bbb/pages/PICT0014_JPG.htm for an
example. Judging by the number of occurrences, someone must be
marketing a mount and handle for the Andersons.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Before you getting parts, You might want to check on how the lights come on.
Most parking light setups I've seen have a single contactor in the
electrical room that turn on all the lights at once. This contactor would be
controlled by ether a timer or an electronic eye to sense if it's light out.
Basically during the day when the lights are not needed there would be no
power to the lights in the parking lot.
Though this may not be a problem for you if you have a night job.
Ted
Olympia, WA
N47 02.743 W122 53.772
What this power is I cannot say; all I know is that it exists and it becomes
available only when a man is in that state of mind in which he knows exactly
what he wants and is fully determined not to quit until he finds it. -
Alexander Graham Bell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Kenigson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 3:33 PM
Subject: Getting juice from a light pole
Howdy,
I work at one of those modern marble, steel, and glass office
buildings that have gotten popular of late. It was built with
absolutely no external outlets. I talked to the building manager and
asked if there was any way I could pay to have an outlet installed on
one of the dozens of light poles that can be found in the parking area
surrounding the building. He said they might be able to get something
like that approved but he doesn't know if it's technically feasable.
He said that in order to reduce conduction losses and use less
expensive wiring, the power to the poles is delivered at a high
voltage. I don't recall the exact voltage he said, but I think it may
have been around 480 volts. I have no idea what the amperage is.
I suppose I really need to find out the precise specs. I was hoping,
though, to be able to do a little research into transformers and get a
general idea of what the cost and physical dimensions might be before
engaging the building management in a more serious discussion about
the project. Plus, I'd like to find out if it's possible to do
something like this in a way that I could possibly take with me if I
change jobs sometime in the future.
If I can just get 5A for eight hours while I'm in the building, it
will give me the ability to go out for lunch and raise my range by
50%. To me, that's a slam-dunk.
Anyway, can you guys (and gals) give me any pointers on where to start
looking and what kinds of options I might have. Obviously, it would
help if I had precise specs but anything you can do to help me prepare
for the conversation would be really appreciated. Thanks!
Matt
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I believe the sprockets are aligned correctly. I did notice when they
were off a little it made a lot more noise, but with it straight it
still makes way too much noise. I don't quite understand how it makes
so much noise, a motorcycle with a chain does not make this kind of
noise. Basically the noise seems to come from the sides of the chain
slapping onto the sprocket at the drive end. I thought maybe the chain
was too tight, loosened it and still same noise.
What I think I might try next is using a nylon sprocket on the motor.
I don't know if it can handle the torque or not, but at $21 it is an
inexpensive option to try.
Jack
Frank John wrote:
Jack, how well are the sprockets aligned? Also if you use an o-ring chain it
should be a bit quieter.
----- Original Message ----
From: Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, February 3, 2007 8:37:57 PM
Subject: Speaking of Hybrids
I think a good way to do a plug-in hybrid is to take a FWD car, and add
an electric motor to drive the rear wheels.
Then you can use the electric motor around town, and use the gas motor
on the freeway.
I've been building just such a car, I've converted one rear wheel into a
driven wheel powered by an electric motor.
However, I'm having trouble and could use some suggestions. I
originally used a 1" wide belt drive to power the wheel, but the belt would
slip when enough torque was applied to move the car.
So I've changed it to use a chain drive. The problem now is the chain
makes a huge amount of noise! more noise than ICE does.
Has anyone else done a chain or belt drive setup? Are there chain
drives that are not so noisy? Or belts that can handle a lot of torque.
A 3" wide belt?
I'm considering trying the snowmobile CVT setup, but its a little
expensive for this project.
Thanks,
Jack
____________________________________________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
http://new.mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
