EV Digest 6388
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) BBB and 6th Pictures
by "Shawn Waggoner, FLEAA" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: NiCD battery sag vs. temps
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: When a controller fails... question
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: 3-wheeler driving experiences
by Jake Oshins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Toyota 1967 2000 GT
by "Dave Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Surplus Center Prestolite motor
by Martin K <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Crimping Tool Choice
by MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: NiCD battery sag vs. temps
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Looking for small transaxle source
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Crimping Tool Choice
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re, Barb Boxer
by Sharon G Alexander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Crimping Tool Choice
by Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: would charging single cells like this be ok to keep cells in balance?
by Tony Hwang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Re, Barb Boxer
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Surplus Center Prestolite motor
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Disconnects
by Steve Condie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: When a controller fails... question
by Mark Fowler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Surplus Center Prestolite motor
by Martin K <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: BBB and 6th Pictures
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: [EV] Re: When a controller fails... question
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) A123 Cells
by "Tim Gamber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: NiCD battery sag vs. temps
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: When a controller fails... question
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Crimping Tool Choice
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) RE: When a controller fails... question
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Crimping Tool Choice
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Series Hybrids eff, Re: EV digest 6372
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Chaz Haba & Hybrid Technologies still not in prison
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Everyone,
Thanks to Andrew Roddy, Mike & Tracy Harvey, James Sullivan and my wife
Christina, we have lots of pictures from the BBB and 6th EVer conference.
There are 2 new photo albums up on the FLEAA website with the pictures. If
you browse to www.floridaeaa.org then "Photo Gallery" > "Event Gallery"
you'll see the pictures. I have separated the EVer pics from the BBB ones.
Here are the direct links:
EVer Conf
http://floridaeaa.org/modules/xcgal/thumbnails.php?album=11
BBB07
http://floridaeaa.org/modules/xcgal/thumbnails.php?album=10
Enjoy!
Shawn Waggoner
FLEAA
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Chris and All,
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: NiCD battery sag vs. temps
Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2007 00:21:06 -0500
>I just got back from a 4kw run on the truck. Should have
>been about 50-60% range normally but at the end I was
>pulling a max of 50 amps at 1.0 vpc (252 cell BB600 pack,
>30ah capacity, 300v nominal, 250v low voltage limit on the
>controller). Really close to the wire to be honest.
>
>Battery pack temp was about outside temp at the start which
>is zero degrees F. Cold. However I thought NiCDs could
>handle the cold better than flooded. Well, AGMs at least.
>Anyone else have any experience with their NiCD packs at
>zero degree temps? How does range and power capacity hold
>up over time?
I think you are having cold problems in your
tranny, diff fluid, bearing grease and tires, all of which
increase a fair amount of drag in the cold. Switch these to
Redline or other synthetic lubes. And I'd bet the heater was
on, while not much, it adds up. Or you can put on diff,
tranny heaters, warming them before starting jusy like
preheating your interior.
For instance when cold, my diesel Rabbit is very
hard to shift until the tranny fluid warms up. If I drove it
more, I'd switch it but getting 50 mpg on part used veg oil,
I wouldn't save much. Most of my Ev's use belts or chains so
don't have that problem. Only 1 diff in the bunch.
>
>Now that I think about it I noticed it sagging down into
>the 280's at 150a at the start of the drive. Which was a
>bit odd. Or maybe a 30ah pack is a bit too small for a
>truck that wants to pull up to 200a peaks and 70-100a
>cruise.
They will work about wherever YT's or Orbitals will
except max racing except the Ni-cads will work in much, much
lower temps.
I have a 96vdc set of BB600's I'll use for racing.
Jerry Dycus
>
>Chris
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Paul G. wrote:
> With what you have proposed runaway is not possible if your
> foot is off the throttle
Not necessarily true. It is entirely possible for the potbox
microswitch to become misadjusted or to fail on long before the
controller fails, such that the contactor is not opening with each
throttle release (unbeknownst to the operator). Or, the runaway might
be due to a defective throttle linkage such that releasing the pedal
doesn't reduce the throttle command or allow the microswitch to drop out
the contactor.
Likewise, the normal failure mode for a contactor is to weld closed; the
operator will not notice a welded contactor nearly as soon as one that
fails to close since the vehicle will continue to operate just fine.
Should the contactor have welded at some prior time, then neither
releasing the throttle nor turning off the ignition will kill the
runaway (even if KSI is thus switched off, since it won't help if the
controller logic is no longer in control).
There is nothing like a manual breaker or remote Anderson disconnect
under immediate control of your right hand to give peace of mind ;^>
> Remember that KSI is pack voltage and most contactor coils
> are run from the vehicle 12v system (the systems should be
> kept electrically isolated from each other.)
KSI isn't actually (or needn't anyway) be pack voltage. From the Curtis
manual:
"The controller KSI is used to turn the controller on and off. KSI is
turned on by connecting it to battery B+. Any positive voltage greater
than about 8 volts will turn on the controller, but usually the full
vehicle battery voltage is used."
Curtis goes on to state that whatever is used to switch the KSI input
needs to be rated for at least 30mA at whatever voltage level is used.
If one wanted to switch KSI and the main contactor with the potbox
microswitch, while keeping the 12V and traction systems isolated, one
simply needs to use an appropriately rated relay to switch the pack
voltage to the KSI input. This is the recommendation Curtis illustrates
in the 1231C typical installtion wiring diagram (since it keeps high
traction voltages out of the passenger compartment).
The 12V coil of this control relay can be powered from the same 12V
house supply that powers the contactor coil (I suggest it is a good idea
to use the original vehicle's ignition circuit so that KSI and the main
contactor can both be dropped out by turning off the ignition should
releasing the throttle not have the desired result).
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
After driving a Corbin Sparrow for a couple of years, I can tell you about
that, though I'm not sure how much my experience generalizes to other 2f1r
vehicles.
The biggest problem with the Sparrow is traction. It's just too easy to break
the back wheel loose if the terrain is at all slippery. Here in Seattle,
pavement is wet all the time and I have to avoid using much throttle or the
back end fishtails.
I'd also like to echo the comments others made about potholes. It's nearly
impossible to miss them with three wheels, as there's no way to straddle the
holes. The short wheelbase makes them even more jarring when you hit them, too.
I also had another scary experience that's worth mentioning. I did a panic
stop once when traffic piled up in front of me on the highway. I stopped so
fast that the rear wheel lifted up, or at least lightened its load enough that
it lost traction. One of my front wheels gripped better than the other and the
whole Sparrow spun 60-degrees in an instant. Again, this probably has more to
do with having a short wheelbase, but that's pretty common in trike designs.
- Jake Oshins
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Osmo S.
Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 9:53 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: 3-wheeler driving experiences
I´d like hear comments from those who have driven a 3-wheeler: how
does it differ from ordinary 4-wheeler experience? I´m interested
especially in a 2f1r. For example, I´d imagine the fact that there
are three wheel tracks or lines(?) instead of two may be a downside
sometimes - in winter conditions when the two main tracks are melted
but there is ice or snow in the middle of them. Or driving on a bumpy
road when you have three tracks to "keep in mind"?
thanks,
Osmo
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The article said only 343 were built from 1967 thru 1970. If you could find
one, grab it. Should be quite valuable.
From: Tony Hwang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Toyota 1967 2000 GT
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 12:48:15 -0800 (PST)
That car is one of the most aerodynamic ones according to this list, very
low cda:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_coefficient
Also very expensive, and a collector's car. You DO NOT want to be
converting it into an EV, at least I wouldn't! :)
- Tony
Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
http://www.japanesenostalgiccar.com/article.cgi?section=profiles&article=toyota2000gt&atitle=1967%20Toyota%202000GT
With Jaguar like styling I'm suprised it didn't take off. I couldn't find
the specs but I'm sure there aren't many around to convert. The early 240
z
would be a better candidate. The main page has many older Japanese cars.
Good place for ideas for conversions. Lawrence Rhodes...
_________________________________________________________________
FREE online classifieds from Windows Live Expo buy and sell with people
you know
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwex0010000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://expo.live.com?s_cid=Hotmail_tagline_12/06
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I realize Roderick talked about this motor previously:
<http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=10-1899-A>
Would it be possible to mount a bearing on the front of the motor? And
by "possible" I mean "little to no machining"
Or is it completely missing the front motor cap?
--
Martin K
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is there any difference in performance between the crimping tools you
"hammer" and the more expensive hand type like the ones sold at
Spectro Wire? Does one give you a better connection or more reliable
one? This is for 2/0 cable building.
Thanks,
Mark
www.electricyaris.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jerryd wrote:
> I think you are having cold problems in your
> tranny, diff fluid, bearing grease and tires, all of which
> increase a fair amount of drag in the cold.
This would certainly contribute to the shorter than anticipated range
(more Wh/mi required to move the vehicle when cold), but would not
explain away the greater voltge sag Chris observed at the same current
draw as when warm (i.e. same load, greater voltage drop with the cold
pack).
The answer is that while NiCds do not suffer as greatly as lead acid in
the cold, they are not completely immune to the cold. This combined
with the extra energy required, as Jerry points out, will reduce the
useful range in the cold. But, take consolation in knowing that you
would have seen a [much] greater reduction than this with lead acid ;^>
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There is a golfcart wrecking yard in the central valley near Stockton. That
might be a good source. There were some very small carts made. Here are a
couple more url's.
http://www.parts4carts.com/about.html Alabama
http://www.golfcarttrader.com/ Central Texas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: " Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 11:47 AM
Subject: Looking for small transaxle source
> Does anyone know of an affordable source for small transaxles, like the
> ones used in Lawn/Garden tractors?
>
> Doesn't mater if they are new or used as long as they are in good
> condition and all have the same or substantially similar mounting points.
>
> Thanks, Pete.
>
>
> --
> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
> wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
> legalistic signature is void.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A good bolt cutter type hand crimping tool can give you consistantly good
crimps with less effort than a hammer tool. However, a hammer crimper can
get the job done, it just takes a bit more work and practice. Either one is
capable of making a bad crimp if you are not careful.
If you are only going to make a set of battery cables one time in your life
than the $200+ for a nice set of crimpers is probably a bit excessive. If
you are going to be consistently tweaking your design or experimenting with
batteries than the nice crimpers are great to have handy. I'm lucky in that
I have a set of the nice crimpers close that I can borrow whenever needed.
damon
From: MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Crimping Tool Choice
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 16:43:31 -0800
Is there any difference in performance between the crimping tools you
"hammer" and the more expensive hand type like the ones sold at Spectro
Wire? Does one give you a better connection or more reliable one? This is
for 2/0 cable building.
Thanks,
Mark
www.electricyaris.com
_________________________________________________________________
Search for grocery stores. Find gratitude. Turn a simple search into
something more.
http://click4thecause.live.com/search/charity/default.aspx?source=hmemtagline_gratitude&FORM=WLMTAG
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike, you got it right, couldn't have said it better. Just another verse of
the Potomac Two-step.
Sharon1248
"I have a radical idea. How about the left, right, and everyone in the
middle take partisan politics out of the real issues that affect the
world and this country's national security. Man that would be refreshing.
If you want to differentiate yourselves and drive real change, show us
you care more about the issues than you do your party line."
Falling on deaf ears Im sure. But hey, they asked for it.
Regards, Mike"
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Check the archives for "crimping" to get a full discussion X3 or X5.
If you can weld, here is my suggestion:
http://www.haritech.com/crimp.htm
Folks have successfully used the hammer crimpers, but they are not ideal.
Bill Dube'
At 05:43 PM 2/6/2007, you wrote:
Is there any difference in performance between the crimping tools you
"hammer" and the more expensive hand type like the ones sold at
Spectro Wire? Does one give you a better connection or more reliable
one? This is for 2/0 cable building.
Thanks,
Mark
www.electricyaris.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Lee,
Yes, I mean a-a are connected, and b-b, but not c-c. What if I connected c-c
also, and still used the four chargers on each cell? I assume one charger per
parallel group of 2 cells would work, so would two chargers charge at
twice the current?
Thanks for the help!
- Tony
----- Original Message ----
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, February 6, 2007 9:25:20 AM
Subject: Re: would charging single cells like this be ok to keep cells in
balance?
Tony Hwang wrote:
> If you have a 2S2P pack, where the cells are connected like this:
>
> a---(cell 1)++++c-----(cell 2)++++b
>
> a---(cell 1)++++c-----(cell 2)++++b
>
> where a and b are connected together, but not c, can you still
> charge each cell seperately with a single cell charger simultaneously?
> (say, using four chargers that are not grounded).
Do you mean that a-a are connected, b-b are connected, but c-c are not
connected?
If so; yes, you can charge them with four individual chargers with
isolated outputs. The strings will interact, however. Let me re-number
your illustration:
a---(cell 1)++++c-----(cell 2)++++b
| |
a---(cell 3)++++c-----(cell 4)++++b
If you charge just (say) cell 1, this raises its voltage. You will also
be DIS-charging cell 2, and charging cells 3 and 4 in series. With those
connections between a-a and b-b, they interact. So, you will have
trouble if one of your four chargers fails or is set to a different
voltage than the rest.
> I'm asking because this seems like a cheap and simple, brute force
> way to balance charge the pack. Thanks!
It works if all the chargers are the same and working. The problems come
when one of them malfunctions. What kind of charger would you use that
is simple, cheap *and* reliable?
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I know that some people embrace EVs for environmental reasons and while it
has some potential to cause controversy, I don't want to inhibit that kind of
discussion - as long as it's civil.
However, any time you quote a politician, you risk stepping off the dock. You
can pretty much guarantee that partisan politics is going to enter the picture.
The second post in this thread is a perfect example - an immediate lurch
away from the main topic, which was already questionable. Thank goodness
the follow up, while off topic, at least begged for nonpartisanship.
Folks, please, LEAVE THE POLITICS AT THE DOOR. All it does is cause
flame wars - and to no avail, because nobody changes his mind! You're
welcome to carry on in private email, but on the list, let's end this thread
NOW, before it gets nasty.
Thanks.
David Roden
EV List Administrator
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Martin
I don't recognize that exact motor but I'm betting
that the end you don't see pictured is the bearingless
end. From what I can see from the pic that DE plate
looks thinner than you might even be able to machine
anyway (probably being a thin walled cast plate).
>From what I gather from your email I'd stay away from
this one and keep your eyes out for a dual bearinged
motor.
Now I'm not saying it can't be machined but it would
take some time and effort. Even for me, the price is
okay but, I'd have to pop a new shaft into it and
machine the DE plate. A lot of the time it's easier
for me to just replace the old one with one that has
what I need as is, rather than the time to machine the
old one, and then of course the cost of a bearing. So
by the time you rob Peter to pay Paul there might be a
better choice to be found. Be patient and you'll be
pleased with what you get, rush to buy and it'll sit
in the garage for the next decade, lmao 8^P.
Is there a particular reason you are looking at this
motor? What project are you looking to use it in?
Anyway that's my take, Hope it helps.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
--- Martin K <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I realize Roderick talked about this motor
> previously:
>
<http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=10-1899-A>
>
> Would it be possible to mount a bearing on the front
> of the motor? And
> by "possible" I mean "little to no machining"
> Or is it completely missing the front motor cap?
> --
> Martin K
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection.
Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta.
http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/features_spam.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So... is there a rule of thumb for contact gap distances required at different
voltages and currents?
I've always wondered how the Czonkas could handle the high currents they're
rated for in such a small and lightweight package.
Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Rich Rudman wrote:
> All good ideas, just keep in mind that you can't relay on the disconnect
> handle to shut down a Big short or a controller run a way. the contacts are
> too close and will flash over at anything above about 96 volts.
>
> But for a safety disconnect or service shut down EXelent!
I'm not quite sure what you mean, Rich. Do you mean an Anderson with a
handle? If so, the contact spacing when you pull them apart is over 1/2"
each, or 1" for the two contacts, even before the halves unmate. That
will break a lot more than 96vdc.
Or, did you mean they aren't built to break high *current*? Here I
agree. They will arc a lot if the contacts are slowly pulled apart,
which causes a lot of contact damage. They could even weld if you pull
them apart slowly.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
---------------------------------
Need Mail bonding?
Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you want to register an EV in Australia, it must have a physical
cut-out (i.e. breaker, not contactor) within reach of the driver.
No, that doesn't mean HV wiring in the passenger cabin - they don't like
that either - it means something like a Big Red Button (tm) with a
physical cable to the breaker in the engine bay.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Darin - at - metrompg.com
Sent: Monday, 5 February 2007 6:33 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: When a controller fails... question
Thanks, Cor.
Sometimes I've got to ask these blindingly obvious questions just to be
sure ;-).
> If you have a way to disengage the battery input, this would be a good
> time to active it. (for example a pull-cord on a breaker or a
> knife-switch or even the throttle-microswitch which is in the
> contactor's coil circuit
This was in fact the motivation for asking.
The plan is to activate the pack negative contactor through the ignition
key circuit, and pack positive contactor with the throttle microswitch.
Now I guess it's time to also plan a physical disconnect.
Related: the Curtis has a "Key Switch Input" (KSI) that turns on/off the
controller logic. If/when the controller fails, will removing the
voltage from KSI shut down a runaway controller?
IE is there any benefit (or drawback) to connecting KSI to the throttle
microswitch so it's effectively OFF each time the go pedal is released?
Darin
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jim,
Some friends and I are building an electric go-kart. I would like a
series motor to get some serious starting torque and durability. Right
now we have a large MagMotor.
This Prestolite motor would give tremendous power for a go-kart, IMO.
Thanks for the response.
--
Martin
Jim Husted wrote:
Hey Martin
I don't recognize that exact motor but I'm betting
that the end you don't see pictured is the bearingless
end. From what I can see from the pic that DE plate
looks thinner than you might even be able to machine
anyway (probably being a thin walled cast plate).
>From what I gather from your email I'd stay away from
this one and keep your eyes out for a dual bearinged
motor.
Now I'm not saying it can't be machined but it would
take some time and effort. Even for me, the price is
okay but, I'd have to pop a new shaft into it and
machine the DE plate. A lot of the time it's easier
for me to just replace the old one with one that has
what I need as is, rather than the time to machine the
old one, and then of course the cost of a bearing. So
by the time you rob Peter to pay Paul there might be a
better choice to be found. Be patient and you'll be
pleased with what you get, rush to buy and it'll sit
in the garage for the next decade, lmao 8^P.
Is there a particular reason you are looking at this
motor? What project are you looking to use it in?
Anyway that's my take, Hope it helps.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Shawn, all
Now that's a heap of pictures lol. Sounds like you
all had a great time. Got to see some familure faces
and some new ones (some prettier than others!)(yeah
you know who you are)
I also got my first look at what you guys did with
those copper palm trees. I'm thnking I have to get
you guys to mount more of my copper work lmao.
Anyway it's really cool to be able to check out the
east coast EV'ers, but of course us West coasters are
gonna have to show you boys up now 8^ P
I know for fact that Wayland's got a trick or two up
his sleeve, 60 of them as a matter of fact, hehe,
ooops!
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
--- "Shawn Waggoner, FLEAA" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Hey Everyone,
>
> Thanks to Andrew Roddy, Mike & Tracy Harvey, James
> Sullivan and my wife
> Christina, we have lots of pictures from the BBB and
> 6th EVer conference.
> There are 2 new photo albums up on the FLEAA website
> with the pictures. If
> you browse to www.floridaeaa.org then "Photo
> Gallery" > "Event Gallery"
> you'll see the pictures. I have separated the EVer
> pics from the BBB ones.
>
> Here are the direct links:
>
> EVer Conf
>
http://floridaeaa.org/modules/xcgal/thumbnails.php?album=11
>
> BBB07
>
http://floridaeaa.org/modules/xcgal/thumbnails.php?album=10
>
>
> Enjoy!
>
> Shawn Waggoner
> FLEAA
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Music Unlimited
Access over 1 million songs.
http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Eduardo Kaftanski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Starting on a hill with the left foot on the brake and right
> on the gas is doable, right?
> Eduardo K. |
not so much on the EVDL :)
Lock
Toronto
human-electric hybrid
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all
I was wanting to know if you ordered a couple hundred cells from A123 if you
could get a discount. On their website it just says if you order 2 or more
developer kits (6 cells each) they are $110 as oposed to $129 for 1 kit.
And it would be great if anyone could tell me about any other good li-ion
manufacturers.
_________________________________________________________________
Dont waste time standing in linetry shopping online. Visit Sympatico / MSN
Shopping today! http://shopping.sympatico.msn.ca
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thank you Jerry. I am noticing a lot more power being pulled per mile,
somewhere around 400-500 watt/hrs per mile. Normal should be around 300
or so.
Another issue is that I have the Dolphin's floor set to 1.0vpc, which is
"empty" when the cells are at rest. Technically they should be able to
be loaded down to .8 volts, which would translate to a 200 volt floor,
not 250 volts. So maybe I will turn the floor down and see what happens.
I do however think they are somewhat lower in capacity, which is odd
since I use BB's in the Elec-trak and it doesn't show much of a range
drop. Then again I am running three strings in the Trac with the
snowblower, and am only pulling 150a total unless I am eating snowbanks
in which case it's more like 200-250. But that's on three strings, not one.
Chris
jerryd wrote:
Hi Chris and All,
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: NiCD battery sag vs. temps
Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2007 00:21:06 -0500
I just got back from a 4kw run on the truck. Should have
been about 50-60% range normally but at the end I was
pulling a max of 50 amps at 1.0 vpc (252 cell BB600 pack,
30ah capacity, 300v nominal, 250v low voltage limit on the
controller). Really close to the wire to be honest.
Battery pack temp was about outside temp at the start which
is zero degrees F. Cold. However I thought NiCDs could
handle the cold better than flooded. Well, AGMs at least.
Anyone else have any experience with their NiCD packs at
zero degree temps? How does range and power capacity hold
up over time?
I think you are having cold problems in your
tranny, diff fluid, bearing grease and tires, all of which
increase a fair amount of drag in the cold. Switch these to
Redline or other synthetic lubes. And I'd bet the heater was
on, while not much, it adds up. Or you can put on diff,
tranny heaters, warming them before starting jusy like
preheating your interior.
For instance when cold, my diesel Rabbit is very
hard to shift until the tranny fluid warms up. If I drove it
more, I'd switch it but getting 50 mpg on part used veg oil,
I wouldn't save much. Most of my Ev's use belts or chains so
don't have that problem. Only 1 diff in the bunch.
Now that I think about it I noticed it sagging down into
the 280's at 150a at the start of the drive. Which was a
bit odd. Or maybe a 30ah pack is a bit too small for a
truck that wants to pull up to 200a peaks and 70-100a
cruise.
They will work about wherever YT's or Orbitals will
except max racing except the Ni-cads will work in much, much
lower temps.
I have a 96vdc set of BB600's I'll use for racing.
Jerry Dycus
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Feb 5, 2007, at 6:09 PM, Roger Stockton wrote:
There is nothing like a manual breaker or remote Anderson disconnect
under immediate control of your right hand to give peace of mind ;^>
Wow, this EVer was proposing 2 separately switched contactors for a
proper "belt and suspenders" approach to EV safety and now you suggest
that THAT is not enough? (3 backup layers if he is including a clutch -
but I suppose the clutch cable could break right then too :-)
Yes, anything mechanical can fail (and will, given enough time.) Darin
is proposing a backup contactor. I'm not sure why I would trust an
Anderson or breaker any more than a second contactor (provided all of
the above are used within their ratings.)
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Crimping cable terminals for a EV, you do not need the multi-die ratchet
type. You can use a Dieless crimper that is just size for the that one size
of cable lug.
I used one size from our shop that is only for 2/0 size bare lugs. My whole
EV power cable is 2/0 from the battery lines to the contactors, to the
controller and to the motor.
There are two types of these crimpers, one for insul crimps connectors and
one for bare connectors. I also use a insul crimp for wire terminals 18 to
10 which is majority of the control wiring. It provides a double crimp, one
over the strip wire and one over the wire insulation
We use these in our overhead line work. The lineman does not have to switch
any dies, just use correct size crimper which may only need for a complete
line job.
You could also purchase a single die head, that looks just like the head on
a bolt cutters and adapt it to a bolt cutter, and it will do a good job in
crimping if you use the very large bolt cutters that is need for leverage.
Crimpers have a offset design in the hinge point where some guys can crimp
with only one hand.
We use a overhead line crimpers which is from the Reliable Tool Co.
www.reliable-equip.com/catalog.html.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "MARK DUTKO" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 5:43 PM
Subject: Crimping Tool Choice
> Is there any difference in performance between the crimping tools you
> "hammer" and the more expensive hand type like the ones sold at
> Spectro Wire? Does one give you a better connection or more reliable
> one? This is for 2/0 cable building.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> www.electricyaris.com
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Paul G. wrote:
> Wow, this EVer was proposing 2 separately switched contactors
> for a proper "belt and suspenders" approach to EV safety and
> now you suggest that THAT is not enough?
;^>
My own EV has a pair of Kilovacs between the battery and controller, one
of which can be dropped out by the controller should it detect a fault,
and both of which can be dropped out manually by turning off the
ignition. The controller managed contactor is also opened (by the
controller) each time the throttle is released. I also have a Heinemann
(sp?) breaker directly under the hand brake lever in easy reach of my
right hand; I specifically located so that I can operate the breaker
toggle directly, without any pull or push cable arrangement. And an
operable clutch, as an absolute last resort since I'd hate to add a
$1500 motor to the repair bill unecessaarily ;^>
> I'm not sure why I would trust an Anderson or breaker any
> more than a second contactor (provided all of the above are
> used within their ratings.)
The reason I would trust a breaker above all of the others is that it is
not switched on/off every time the vehicle is used (possibly multiple
times a day, or when a contactor opens each time the throttle releases
many times each trip). An Anderson disconnect also shares this
advantage, but since it is not intended/rated for use as a disconnect
device, I have more confidence in an appropriately rated breaker.
I don't have the option with my Kilovacs, but someone using contactors
such as Albrights could equip them with the optional microswitches that
allow detection/confirmation that the armature has in fact opened or
closed as intended. If I had this option, I would at a minimum use
these switches to light an idiot light confirming that all contactors
are open when the keyswitch is turned on, but before it is turned to the
run (or start) position.
My concern is that people don't always use these devices within their
ratings, either because they've obtained surplus parts and don't know
the ratings, or they are unknowingly exceeding their ratings (e.g.
hammering a contactor because the precharge resistor was not installed),
or simply because they are using a part outside of its ratings
deliberately. If the switch fails open, the car won't move and they
will notice and fix it immediately, but if it fails closed (the more
likely case), the car will work just fine and it might go unnoticed for
weeks or months. One day, the throttle sticks or the controller fails
and they discover the hard way that the contactor isn't opening...
OK, with two contactors, it is a lot less likely that both will fail,
but still not impossible. Let's say one closes with the keyswitch and
the other closes on a subsequent condition. If the second welds, then
from then on the first one may get hit with whatever surge killed the
first one, and it too might fail closed after some time. Again, the
problem is that even with 2 contactors, unless you provide a means of
detecting that a contactor has failed to open, any failure will go
unnoticed until *all* have failed (and, only then when some situation
arises where you *need* them to open).
All that said, I missed that Darin was suggesting the use of two
contactors and was suggesting that I would feel much better with a
manual disconnect means at hand in addition to switching KSI and having
a main contactor.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 05:00 PM 2/6/2007, you wrote:
Check the archives for "crimping" to get a full discussion X3 or X5.
If you can weld, here is my suggestion:
http://www.haritech.com/crimp.htm
Folks have successfully used the hammer crimpers, but they are not ideal.]
However, we have sold them to Boeing, so I guess they must be ok.
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Danny and All,
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Series Hybrids eff, Re: EV digest 6372
Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2007 12:29:37 -0600
>I think you must be looking at the coulombmetric
>efficiency- amp-hrs in vs amp-hrs out.
>
>The actual energy efficiency also depends on voltage. If
>you charge a 12V battery at 14.4V for 5 amp-hrs then drain
>the 5 amp-hrs at a 75 amp rate, it may return those 5
>amp-hrs at 12.6V. That's 87.5% efficient.
I don't think that is true as it would heat up instead
of cooling. I also think you will get out the 98-99% power
you put in as tests have shown, at least in the 15-80%
charge range we were talking about.
While you would discharge at a lower voltage, you
could discharge longer or at a higher amperage.
It's been a while since I seen the tests, I think
they were from AC Propulsion and Hackleman in the early EV
races where he fast charged.
Note that
>charging at higher rates requires slightly higher voltages
>and draining at higher rates returns at a lower voltage.
That doesn't mean it's not giving almost the same
wthrs. You need the higher voltage to force the higher
amps. But wthrs in is almost wthrs out.
>At the high amps used to accelerate a car, typically that
>voltage sag will be significant.
Again when you do this, the power isn't gone except
some to resistance, you just need to let it rest so the
charge can get to the plate's surface as the surface charge
has been depleted from the high amp draws. When cold, the
wthrs are still there, they just take longer to get out
because the chemical reactions are slower.
The charge rate will not
>be as intense since it only needs to make up the average
>current consumed, but it's still going to be somewhat on
>the high side.
Little is going into the battery when driving as most
goes directly to the controller/motor. Only when slow or
stopped will the battery charge current be high. In my case
80 amps from the generator, 55mph worth.
So even if what you say about fast charging eff was
true, it doesn't happen often.
Jerry Dycus
>
>Danny
>
>jerryd wrote:
>
>> Just not true Peter. Lead batts being used in the
>>20-80% charged range as they must for this to work well
>>are very eff, in the 95-99% range in fast charging, per
>>AC Propulsion, Hackleman.
>> They even cool during this which probably means they
>>are turning some heat into charge!! It's only after they
>>get above about 80% charged does their eff drop but still
>>no where like what you say, still in the 90% range with a
>>good finish charge profile. One wouldn't go into the 80%
>>above charged range until home, charged from the grid for
>>the highest eff. But then you couldn't claim series
>>hybrids are less eff so you conviently leave that out.
>>
>>
>>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For those of you who know who Chaz Haba is you will find the following
either very funny or very sickening. My friend came in tonight and showed me
a 15 page full color brochure titled: "Stockmarket Investor Insight". The
entire brochure is an advertisement for his company Hybrid Technologies but
boy what a slick, or maybe slimy is a better adjective for this
advertisement. If you didn't know better you would be sold or should I say
snowed. For those who are in the EV movement who are not yet familiar with
this infamous individual I would highly advise you to do a bit of background
research. You can start here. Please read the following:
http://www.newsalert.com/discussions/msgReader.asp?siteId=mktwp&parentId=2&forumId=27&boardId=70134&msgId=7,
http://www.marketwatch.com/discussions/msgReader.asp?siteId=mktw&parentId=2&forumId=12&boardId=73519&msgId=54
I was also one of the people that informed Jay Leno of the BS press
releases Chaz was putting out saying that Jay purchased a car from his
company. I made a single call to my frind who has Jay's home phone number
and the BS was gone from the site rather quickly. Please pass on all of this
information to all of your gullable friends. I actually hope you do not have
any. Most people on this list can tell BS and hype from reality. The very
sad thing is, is that people like this damage the credibility of EVs.
Roderick Wilde
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.411 / Virus Database: 268.17.28/672 - Release Date: 2/6/2007
--- End Message ---
