EV Digest 6389
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Older 6000lb Clark Fork Lift for free on Craigslist (watsonvi
lle)
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Getting juice from a light pole
by "Andrew Kane" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: HYBRID TECHNOLOGIES INC. (NASD OTCBB: HYBT): UNITED STATES PRESIDENT
GEORGE W. BUSH, ACKNOWLEDGES HYBRID'S NYC TAXI PROJECT AT STATE OF ECONOMY
SPEECH IN NEW YORK
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: HYBRID TECHNOLOGIES INC. (NASD OTCBB: HYBT): UNITED STATES PRESIDENT
GEORGE
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Solectria BRLS-240H Control Schematic
by "Emmerick, Craig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Crimping Tool Choice
by Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: A123 Cells
by Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: NiCD battery sag vs. temps
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Series Hybrids eff, Re: EV digest 6372
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: NiCD battery sag vs. temps
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: 3-wheeler driving experiences / traction principles
by "Osmo S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Crimping Tool Choice
by EVSource <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) re:Crimping Tool Choice
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) A123 Cells
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Battery Eff, tests Re: Series Hybrids eff, Re: EV digest 6372
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) re:Crimping Tool Choice
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Surplus Center Prestolite motor
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: 3-wheeler driving experiences / traction principles
by "Kip C. Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) LPI Magne Charge Manual (reciever-side) and/or parts $$ -- needed (Large
Paddle Inductive)
by "Steve Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Crimping Tool Choice
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Series Hybrids eff, Re: EV digest 6372
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Series Hybrids eff, Re: EV digest 6372
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Surplus Center Prestolite motor
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: 3-wheeler driving experiences / traction principles
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Surplus Center Prestolite motor
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Series Hybrids eff, Re: EV digest 6372
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) RE: Crimping Tool Choice
by "Pestka, Dennis J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: 3-wheeler driving experiences / traction principles
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: 3-wheeler driving experiences / traction principles
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I am sure they fail all over the US/world, but you just need to
find a way to tap into that supply. Craigslist is actually used
in many cities and has a dedicated "free classifieds" section.
Happy hunting,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Mike Harvey
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 2:35 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Older 6000lb Clark Fork Lift for free on Craigslist
(watsonville)
You SFers have all the fun.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 4:57 PM
Subject: Older 6000lb Clark Fork Lift for free on Craigslist (watsonville)
> Found free Clark 6000lbs forklift on Craigslist:
> (San Francisco Bay area)
> Cor.
>
> http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/zip/274423364.html
> Older 6000lb Clark Fork Lift (watsonville)
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Reply to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Date: 2007-02-06, 12:25PM PST
>
> I have an Older Clark Fork Lift, Needs engine repair.
> If you need one, come pick it up.
> Located in Salinas.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If it was as cheap as electricity, maybe they would.
I spend nearly $100/week on fuel for my job, and I get paid mileage.
I'm still taking a bath on it.
On 2/5/07, Randy Burleson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I wish my company would pay for my fuel!
> I was planning on metering it and paying for the juice.
Cool. I'm hoping EVs can make it without subsidies!
Randii (who still wishes his company would pay for his fuel!)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, Feb 06, 2007 at 07:57:09AM -0800, Megan Collins wrote:
> HYBRID TECHNOLOGIES INC. (NASD OTCBB: HYBT): UNITED STATES PRESIDENT GEORGE
> W. BUSH, ACKNOWLEDGES HYBRID'S NYC TAXI PROJECT AT STATE OF ECONOMY SPEECH
> IN NEW YORK
>
<..snip..>
> ... are honored to note that as part of
> President George W. Bush's State of The Economy speech ... Hybrid's
> lithiumion taxi project was mentioned ...
>
> President George W. Bush said: "Imagine what these technologies will mean
> for somebody living in New York. The fuel in your car is going to come from
> a corn field in Iowa or perhaps switchgrass out of Texas. Hybrid electric
> taxi cabs will be running on new generation lithium ion batteries. The
> financial pages will be filled with new stock symbols for dynamic American
> companies in the growing field of alternative fuels."
Hahaha!
This is great.
The companies name is "Hybrid Technologies", and the president says:
"Hybrid electric taxi cabs will be running on new generation lithium ion
batteries."
So Hybrid Technologies says: "Look! The president mentioned us specifically!"
The problem is that Hybrid Technologies does not make hybrids.
I wonder how many people will be duped by this?
<..snip..>
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED--- *
* This post contains a forbidden message format *
* (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) *
* Lists at sjsu.edu only accept PLAIN TEXT *
* If your postings display this message your mail program *
* is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> So Hybrid Technologies says: "Look! The president mentioned us
specifically!"
> The problem is that Hybrid Technologies does not make hybrids.
>
> I wonder how many people will be duped by this?
>
>
Ahh, but they *are* working on a "Prop-less Wind Powered Generator" in
partnership with Capstone.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Dale
Please, please, please send me the pdf of yours. This will help me out
of a couple of woes.
Thank you
Regards
Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dale Ulan
Sent: 06 February 2007 03:16 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Solectria BRLS-240H Control Schematic
I had to repair a couple of these. There's hardly any information
available, and above all, no schematics. I traced it out and made a PDF
file of it. I needed to do an alignment and some switching speed
adjustments after replacing all of the power devices. If anyone needs
them, email me and I can email it to you.
-Dale
Volkswagen of South Africa (Pty) Ltd. (Reg No. 1946/023458/07)
Managing Director: D Powels
Directors: M Glendinning (Sales & Marketing), S Mund* (Finance), S Macozoma, BK
Smith (Human Resources), N Maliza (Corporate and Government Affairs)
German*
DISCLAIMER : Volkswagen of South Africa (Pty) Ltd
Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender.
No liability shall attach whatsoever to VWSA from this communication except
where
the sender is acting on specific authority of VWSA, such authority being public
record and acknowledged by VWSA by nature of the employee's functions.
This document may in no way be photocopied, printed, scanned or electronically
duplicated for any purposes other than that for which it was originally
intended.
If you are not the intended recipient of this communication, please discard
this message and notify VWSA immediately at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 07:47 PM 2/6/2007, you wrote:
At 05:00 PM 2/6/2007, you wrote:
Check the archives for "crimping" to get a full discussion X3 or X5.
If you can weld, here is my suggestion:
http://www.haritech.com/crimp.htm
Folks have successfully used the hammer crimpers, but they are not ideal.]
However, we have sold them to Boeing, so I guess they must be ok.
They most certainly would not be using them for an airplane.
The FAA would have their head on a pike for using a hammer crimper.
Probably for a fork lift or a car battery.
bill dube'
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
They won't really deal with you for just a few
hundred cells. You must buy thousands of cells from them to get a discount.
Also, if you have a product in mind, they will
want to be well assured that you have an adequate
BMS designed and ready to go. No BMS = no cells.
Bill Dube'
At 08:03 PM 2/6/2007, you wrote:
Hi all
I was wanting to know if you ordered a couple
hundred cells from A123 if you could get a
discount. On their website it just says if you
order 2 or more developer kits (6 cells each)
they are $110 as oposed to $129 for 1 kit.
And it would be great if anyone could tell me
about any other good li-ion manufacturers.
_________________________________________________________________
Dont waste time standing in linetry shopping
online. Visit Sympatico / MSN Shopping today! http://shopping.sympatico.msn.ca
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 6 Feb 2007 at 0:21, Chris Zach wrote:
> I just got back from a 4kw run on the truck.
I suspect you mean 4kWH (kiloWatt HOURS), not 4kW (kiloWatts). Kilowatts
are not a measure of energy, but of power. And 4 kW isn't very much power;
it wouldn't get you going very fast. ;-)
> Another issue is that I have the Dolphin's floor set to 1.0vpc, which is
> "empty" when the cells are at rest.
Are you sure about that? I've been using that voltage >under load< as the
"empty" point. It may not matter, though; once the charge is gone, voltage
falls off the cliff, and 0.8v won't happen much beyond 1.0v.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 5 Feb 2007 at 20:16, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> For charge efficiency I normally figure an average of 11V on discharge and
> 13.8V on charge with 100% coulometric. That gets us around 80%.
>From 20% SOC to 80% SOC, the battery heats up very little and doesn't gas.
So where is the other 20% going?
I suspect that the voltage difference is immaterial (or at least negligable)
for purposes of calculating charge efficiency between 20% and 80% SOC. I
could be wrong, but my understanding is that energy out is very close to
energy in >in this charge range<.
Of course, once you exceed 80% SOC, much more of the energy goes into
gassing and heating.
Perhaps someone familiar with electrochemistry can explain what's really
going on here.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Chris and All,
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: NiCD battery sag vs. temps
Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2007 22:04:27 -0500
>Thank you Jerry. I am noticing a lot more power being
>pulled per mile, somewhere around 400-500 watt/hrs per
>mile. Normal should be around 300 or so.
Winter kind of does that. It's why Prius mileage
along with all cars drops in the cold. A main reason besides
weight I eliminated gears/tranny's in my EV.
I didn't mean to say ni-cads have no cold
effects, just much, much better than lead like Roger said.
>
>Another issue is that I have the Dolphin's floor set to
>1.0vpc, which is "empty" when the cells are at rest.
>Technically they should be able to be loaded down to .8
>volts, which would translate to a 200 volt floor, not 250
>volts. So maybe I will turn the floor down and see what
>happens.
I'm going with David here as ni-cads hold their
voltage well until 90% discharged when it starts falling of
a cliff. This might start earlier in colder weather whic has
been rather extreme lately. Luckily I'm in Fla so much of
this is academic to me with ni-cads.
>
>I do however think they are somewhat lower in capacity,
>which is odd since I use BB's in the Elec-trak and it
>doesn't show much of a range drop. Then again I am running
>three strings in the Trac with the snowblower, and am only
>pulling 150a total unless I am eating snowbanks in which
>case it's more like 200-250. But that's on three strings,
>not one.
You might have a bad cell or 2 in the lot. I'd
charge them up completely, equalized, discharge them to 90%,
then check to see which ones drop of the cliff first and
mark them as you gently discharge them more is how I check
for bad cells. Mine were 27+ yrs old when I got my smaller
versions so I had to sort the good ones from the bad. A pain
but they were free ;^D
Many said these BB600's put out 40 amphrs.
Most of your problem seems to be added cold drag
with some cold effects on the batts.
I'd be surprised if in the manual it doesn't have
cold specs. There is a good manual I believe for them on the
BB600 list depending which brand you have.
Stay warm and switch those fluids for lower cold
drag!! So use GM auto tranny fluid in theirs though I'd
stick to Redline and other known good by EVers syn lubes.
Jerry Dycus
>
>Chris
>
>
>jerryd wrote:
>> Hi Chris and All,
>>
>> ----- Original Message Follows -----
>> From: Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>> Subject: NiCD battery sag vs. temps
>> Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2007 00:21:06 -0500
>>
>>> I just got back from a 4kw run on the truck. Should have
>>> been about 50-60% range normally but at the end I was
>>> pulling a max of 50 amps at 1.0 vpc (252 cell BB600 pack
>>> , 30ah capacity, 300v nominal, 250v low voltage limit on
>>> the controller). Really close to the wire to be honest.
>>>
>>> Battery pack temp was about outside temp at the start
>>> which is zero degrees F. Cold. However I thought NiCDs
>>> could handle the cold better than flooded. Well, AGMs at
>>> least. Anyone else have any experience with their NiCD
>>> packs at zero degree temps? How does range and power
>>> capacity hold up over time?
>>
>> I think you are having cold problems in your
>> tranny, diff fluid, bearing grease and tires, all of
>> which increase a fair amount of drag in the cold. Switch
>> these to Redline or other synthetic lubes. And I'd bet
>> the heater was on, while not much, it adds up. Or you can
>> put on diff, tranny heaters, warming them before starting
>> jusy like preheating your interior.
>> For instance when cold, my diesel Rabbit is very
>> hard to shift until the tranny fluid warms up. If I drove
>> it more, I'd switch it but getting 50 mpg on part used
>> veg oil, I wouldn't save much. Most of my Ev's use belts
>> or chains so don't have that problem. Only 1 diff in the
>> bunch.
>>
>>> Now that I think about it I noticed it sagging down into
>>> the 280's at 150a at the start of the drive. Which was a
>>> bit odd. Or maybe a 30ah pack is a bit too small for a
>>> truck that wants to pull up to 200a peaks and 70-100a
>>> cruise.
>>
>> They will work about wherever YT's or Orbitals
>> will except max racing except the Ni-cads will work in
>> much, much lower temps.
>> I have a 96vdc set of BB600's I'll use for
>> racing.
>> Jerry Dycus
>>> Chris
>>>
>>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thank you Jerry, 2xTom, Jake for interesting responds. I´m trying to
decide if benefits of a 3-wheeler are greater than drawbacks:
+simplicity
+costs
+distinctive looks
-handling peculiarities
-distinctive looks
More?
Of course, as Jerry points out, some 3-wheelers are better designed
than others.
Jake Oshins kirjoitti 7.2.2007 kello 2.14:
The biggest problem with the Sparrow is traction.
A basic question: how does the size of the traction area affect on
traction? Does wide tire have more traction than a narrow one, or two
tires vs one?
terveisin,
Osmo
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>
> They most certainly would not be using them for an airplane.
> The FAA would have their head on a pike for using a hammer crimper.
> Probably for a fork lift or a car battery.
>
> bill dube'
There's always the Bill Dube crimpers:
http://www.haritech.com/crimp.htm
I took a shot at it a couple years ago:
http://www.evsource.com/conversion/electronics/cabling/crimpers/crimpers.php
They seemed to work pretty good.
I've since graduated to a commercial option. I'm stocking the hex crimpers in
the EVS store now. As an added bonus, they can be purchased to use, and
returned for full price when you're done. Info here:
http://www.evsource.com/tls_cabling_tools.php
-Ryan
--
- EV Source <http://www.evsource.com> -
Professional grade electric vehicle parts and resources
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I went to ebay and got one of those burndy y35 hydraulic units.
like 140082564416 or 160081493027
Best choice I ever made. With 26 batteries in two locations, breakers
and disconnects, I had over 60 crimps to do. The heavy duty connectors
for the 2/0 cable have orange stripes on them that the orange die
perfectly fits between.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am interested in knowing the answer to this myself. For my
experiments, I am just gonna buy some dewalt battery packs off of e-bay,
the dc9360 has 10 cells in it and I have seen them go "new" for about
$100. Even going to lowes and buying one at 167 is $16per cell which is
cheaper than their developer pack.
I was also thinking it might be cool to use the packs directly on a
scooter since they have charge managment and speed control in the pack.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi David and All,
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Series Hybrids eff, Re: EV digest 6372
Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 04:30:18 -0500
>On 5 Feb 2007 at 20:16, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>
>> For charge efficiency I normally figure an average of 11V
>> on discharge and 13.8V on charge with 100% coulometric.
>That gets us around 80%.
>
>>From 20% SOC to 80% SOC, the battery heats up very little
>and doesn't gas. So where is the other 20% going?
>
>I suspect that the voltage difference is immaterial (or at
>least negligable) for purposes of calculating charge
>efficiency between 20% and 80% SOC. I could be wrong, but
>my understanding is that energy out is very close to
>energy in >in this charge range<.
What's happening is a chemical reaction which is done
by power in regardless of voltage, amps, pretty much equals
power out, even if it's at a different voltage, amps. Just
saying you take the same amps out as in at different
voltages is self fullfilling.
Otherwise the battery temp must change or where does
the energy go Peter says is wasted? Of course I'm talking
about 20% to 80% charging SoC.
As I've said before, most of the charge is still in
cold or high current discharges, just you can't pull it out
as fast except a little that is lost from resistance.
Could those who have done fast charging tell us their
results? Madman? Or maybe someone could do tests or find the
old ones? Anyone want to take a stab at it?
How would one do such a test without doing it 10+
times to average out?
Would just measuring temp increase rate work? One
would probably need an E meter to measure in, out. I could
do that but I don't have an E meter.
Did my all composite trailing arm rear suspension
yesterday. Hopefully it will come out of the mold without
destroying the mold. Nothing but fire can probably destroy
the arm ;^D.
Thanks,
Jerry Dycus
>
>Of course, once you exceed 80% SOC, much more of the energy
>goes into gassing and heating.
>
>Perhaps someone familiar with electrochemistry can explain
>what's really going on here.
>
>
>David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
>EV List Administrator
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Jeff,
Way back in the 60's we paid about $500.00 for the set that came in a case.
Today, this type of crimper is over $2000.00 and is normally use for bench
work. We now have a lighter type one hand operation that the lineman
prefer.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 6:33 AM
Subject: re:Crimping Tool Choice
> I went to ebay and got one of those burndy y35 hydraulic units.
>
> like 140082564416 or 160081493027
>
> Best choice I ever made. With 26 batteries in two locations, breakers
> and disconnects, I had over 60 crimps to do. The heavy duty connectors
> for the 2/0 cable have orange stripes on them that the orange die
> perfectly fits between.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Martin
Those sized motors do in fact make a very fun kart. I
went back and had another look at that motor and
noticed it's listed as a shunt motor which is another
knock against it for what you're looking to do.
To bad it isn't a better suited motor as the price is
pretty good. Even with a free core the costs of a
shaft, bearings, brushes, and possible brush ring
would keep me from being able to compete with it price
wise.
Anyway hope this helps. Sorry it's not a better
report.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
--- Martin K <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Jim,
> Some friends and I are building an electric go-kart.
> I would like a
> series motor to get some serious starting torque and
> durability. Right
> now we have a large MagMotor.
> This Prestolite motor would give tremendous power
> for a go-kart, IMO.
> Thanks for the response.
> --
> Martin
>
> Jim Husted wrote:
> > Hey Martin
> >
> > I don't recognize that exact motor but I'm betting
> > that the end you don't see pictured is the
> bearingless
> > end. From what I can see from the pic that DE
> plate
> > looks thinner than you might even be able to
> machine
> > anyway (probably being a thin walled cast plate).
> > >From what I gather from your email I'd stay away
> from
> > this one and keep your eyes out for a dual
> bearinged
> > motor.
> >
> > Now I'm not saying it can't be machined but it
> would
> > take some time and effort. Even for me, the price
> is
> > okay but, I'd have to pop a new shaft into it and
> > machine the DE plate. A lot of the time it's
> easier
> > for me to just replace the old one with one that
> has
> > what I need as is, rather than the time to machine
> the
> > old one, and then of course the cost of a bearing.
> So
> > by the time you rob Peter to pay Paul there might
> be a
> > better choice to be found. Be patient and you'll
> be
> > pleased with what you get, rush to buy and it'll
> sit
> > in the garage for the next decade, lmao 8^P.
> > Is there a particular reason you are looking at
> this
> > motor? What project are you looking to use it in?
> > Anyway that's my take, Hope it helps.
> > Cya
> > Jim Husted
> > Hi-Torque Electric
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check.
Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.
http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/newmail_tools.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Weight distribution is the most important factor, as even a 4 wheeled car
can lift it's rear wheels under hard braking. I had a car that would
routinely life the inside rear wheel any time I turned under hard braking,
but if you really want to see what I mean, search for 'autotest mini' on
Google Videos (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dU966ADlVIg). And wait for
the ending. ;)
The easiest ways to fix the weight distribution factor are to make the
wheelbase longer (which adds weight), or better yet, lower it as much as
possible. No doubt the high seating position in the Sparrow contributes to
it's hard braking instability. Lacking a second rear wheel in itself is
not a problem when this issue is properly handled.
- Kip
----- Original Message -----
From: "Osmo S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 11:55 PM
Subject: Re: 3-wheeler driving experiences / traction principles
A basic question: how does the size of the traction area affect on
traction? Does wide tire have more traction than a narrow one, or two
tires vs one?
terveisin,
Osmo
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Does anyone have an original manual for the LPI (Large Paddle Inductive)
Mange Charge unit IN THE CAR (USelectricar or S10E). I have the manual for
the Paddle side (external charger), but not the receiver-side (under the
front license plate) and need to find one.
Thanks,
Steve
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
PS: I am also looking for CAR-SIDE Magne Charge PARTS or complete systems
to play with, if someone has one that they are not using and would like to
sell same.
Thanks.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark,
One consideration is that you cannot use a hammer crimper "in vehicle"
since it needs to be sitting somewhere solid. With a hand crimper such
as the one from evparts.com or that Bill Dube describes, you can install
lugs on cables in the vehicle.
Ralph
MARK DUTKO writes:
>
> Is there any difference in performance between the crimping tools you
> "hammer" and the more expensive hand type like the ones sold at
> Spectro Wire? Does one give you a better connection or more reliable
> one? This is for 2/0 cable building.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> www.electricyaris.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
jerryd wrote:
From: Danny Miller
I think you must be looking at the coulombmetric efficiency
-- amp-hrs in vs. amp-hrs out.
Agreed; lead-acid batteries are almost 100% efficient on an amphour
in/out basis, as long as you stay between 20% and 80% SOC.
The actual energy efficiency depends on voltage. If you charge
a 12V battery at 14.4V for 5 amp-hrs then drain the 5 amp-hrs
at a 75 amp rate, it may return those 5 amp-hrs at 12.6V.
That's 87.5% efficient.
You have the right idea, but the details are a bit off. 14.4v is above
the gassing threshold, so the battery is close to 100% SOC, and will be
losing energy to gassing.
If the battery was instead at 50% SOC, then it would only rise to about
13v while charging. Under load, it falls to 12.5v. The coulombmetric
efficiency is essentially 100%, so the overall efficiency is about
12.5v/13v = 96%.
The voltage difference between charging and discharging is due to the
internal resistance of the battery. In the above example, charging and
discharging at 75a produced a 0.5v difference -- +0.25v on charge,
-0.25v on discharge. So, this battery's internal resistance is R =
0.25v/75a = 0.0033 ohms (which happens to be the internal resistance of
an Optima or Hawker AGM).
Note that these calculations are only approximate. There are lots of
details that affect things (such as, the internal resistance is not
really linear, it changes with state of charge and temperature, and
there is hysteresis between charge and discharge).
Jerry Dycus wrote:
I don't think that is true as it would heat up instead
of cooling. I also think you will get out the 98-99% power
you put in as tests have shown, at least in the 15-80%
charge range we were talking about.
If heat is a useful "output", then you could count it. For instance, if
the batteries are cold, the heat "lost" to internal resistance warms
them up, which increases their capacity by more than the energy used to
heat them. But for this to work, the battery has to be well insulated.
While you would discharge at a lower voltage, you could
discharge longer or at a higher amperage.
Charging/discharging at lower rates improves efficiency, by reducing the
voltage drop across the internal resistance. You can't usually do much
about discharge current; but you can charge slower to reduce charging
losses. Don't go *too* far in this direction though -- you need a high
enough current to actually reach full charge.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> If the battery was instead at 50% SOC, then it would only rise to about
> 13v while charging. Under load, it falls to 12.5v. The coulombmetric
> efficiency is essentially 100%, so the overall efficiency is about
> 12.5v/13v = 96%.
Perhaps I'm missing something since I haven't tried this (keeping the
battery at 50% SOC), but how are you coming up with 12.5V? Every time
I've drained a battery to 50% SOC it's voltage is much lower (like around
11-11.5 for a 12V batt), especially under load. In fact the resting
voltage of a 50%SOC 12V battery isn;t even 12.5V.
Hmm, I found an article by home power with some charts in it. According
to them, at the C/5 rate a 12V lead-acid battery at 50% SOC requires 13.4V
to charge (C/5) and produces 11.5V on discharge.
Their charts only go to C/5, but I'm pretty sure the numbers will change a
bit a 1C (like higher charge voltage and lower discharge)
http://www.homepower.com/files/battvoltandsoc.pdf
Remember, we were talking about using the batteries in a hybrid
application, that pretty much means 1C or higher charge/discharge rates.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Martin,
This MKF type Prestolite motor had a wire wound armature with soldered comm
connections, if memory serves me. Probably not a good choice for the money and
work needed for drive bearing. For the same money you should be able to get a
modern golf cart motor with brazed comm. You'd have the same issue with the
bearing and shaft, but once that was done, a much more durable motor. Too bad
someone hasn't developed a kit to convert the golf cart motor to a two bearing,
shaft out design. With these guys souping up golf carts there are a lot of OE
motors around.
Jeff
Martin K <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I realize Roderick talked about this motor previously:
Would it be possible to mount a bearing on the front of the motor? And
by "possible" I mean "little to no machining"
Or is it completely missing the front motor cap?
--
Martin K
---------------------------------
We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
(and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> A basic question: how does the size of the traction area affect on
> traction? Does wide tire have more traction than a narrow one, or two
> tires vs one?
In normal applications, the width of the tire makes very little
difference. If everything else remains the same; with a larger contact
patch you have the vehicles weight spread out over a larger area. You end
up with less pressure per square inch, but more inches.
This helps a bit on dry sticking surfaces, but hurts on wet or snow
covered surfaces - you stay on top unstead of cutting through.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Jim, perhaps you have a used 6 or 7 inch motor you could offer these
guys a deal on?
If not, there is always eBay.
> Hey Martin
>
> Those sized motors do in fact make a very fun kart. I
> went back and had another look at that motor and
> noticed it's listed as a shunt motor which is another
> knock against it for what you're looking to do.
> To bad it isn't a better suited motor as the price is
> pretty good. Even with a free core the costs of a
> shaft, bearings, brushes, and possible brush ring
> would keep me from being able to compete with it price
> wise.
> Anyway hope this helps. Sorry it's not a better
> report.
> Cya
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
>
>
> --- Martin K <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Jim,
>> Some friends and I are building an electric go-kart.
>> I would like a
>> series motor to get some serious starting torque and
>> durability. Right
>> now we have a large MagMotor.
>> This Prestolite motor would give tremendous power
>> for a go-kart, IMO.
>> Thanks for the response.
>> --
>> Martin
>>
>> Jim Husted wrote:
>> > Hey Martin
>> >
>> > I don't recognize that exact motor but I'm betting
>> > that the end you don't see pictured is the
>> bearingless
>> > end. From what I can see from the pic that DE
>> plate
>> > looks thinner than you might even be able to
>> machine
>> > anyway (probably being a thin walled cast plate).
>> > >From what I gather from your email I'd stay away
>> from
>> > this one and keep your eyes out for a dual
>> bearinged
>> > motor.
>> >
>> > Now I'm not saying it can't be machined but it
>> would
>> > take some time and effort. Even for me, the price
>> is
>> > okay but, I'd have to pop a new shaft into it and
>> > machine the DE plate. A lot of the time it's
>> easier
>> > for me to just replace the old one with one that
>> has
>> > what I need as is, rather than the time to machine
>> the
>> > old one, and then of course the cost of a bearing.
>> So
>> > by the time you rob Peter to pay Paul there might
>> be a
>> > better choice to be found. Be patient and you'll
>> be
>> > pleased with what you get, rush to buy and it'll
>> sit
>> > in the garage for the next decade, lmao 8^P.
>> > Is there a particular reason you are looking at
>> this
>> > motor? What project are you looking to use it in?
>> > Anyway that's my take, Hope it helps.
>> > Cya
>> > Jim Husted
>> > Hi-Torque Electric
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check.
> Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.
> http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/newmail_tools.html
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> On 5 Feb 2007 at 20:16, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>
>> For charge efficiency I normally figure an average of 11V on discharge
>> and
>> 13.8V on charge with 100% coulometric. That gets us around 80%.
>
>>From 20% SOC to 80% SOC, the battery heats up very little and doesn't
>> gas.
> So where is the other 20% going?
I didn't write that last part, someone else must have.
Batteries used in this manner (hybrid) actually heat up quite a bit. I
remember reading a report a few years back done by Optima (I think)
talking about the amount of cooling a hybrid PbA pack requires. I seem to
recall that it was a fair bit of active cooling required and they STILL
ran the pack at around 120 degrees case temperature (higher temps
increased efficiency, if you don't mind the loss in life span)
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Has anyone ever rigged up a hammer crimper with a cheap hydraulic bottle
jack?
Seems like a cheap way to make a more reliable type of crimper.
Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Electro Automotive [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 8:47 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Crimping Tool Choice
At 05:00 PM 2/6/2007, you wrote:
>Check the archives for "crimping" to get a full discussion X3 or X5.
>
>If you can weld, here is my suggestion:
>http://www.haritech.com/crimp.htm
>
>Folks have successfully used the hammer crimpers, but they are not
>ideal.]
However, we have sold them to Boeing, so I guess they must be ok.
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Electric Car Conversion
Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Osmo S. wrote:
Thank you Jerry, 2xTom, Jake for interesting responds. I´m trying to
decide if benefits of a 3-wheeler are greater than drawbacks:
+simplicity
+costs
+distinctive looks
-handling peculiarities
-distinctive looks
More?
Look at R. Buckminster Fuller's "Dymaxion Car" for a fascinating example
of a 3-wheeler. Be sure to read his patent on it -- there is a lot of
good teaching in there about handling and stability.
Fundamentally, you need low CG (center of gravity), about in the center
of the triangle formed by the wheel's contact patches. The rollover
stability will be defined by the angle between the outside contact patch
and the CG. This leads to having 2/3 the weight on the 2-wheel axle.
For traction, you want the 2-wheel axle to have the driven wheels. The
Sparrow didn't, and so had traction problems.
If you steer with the one wheel, then you have low steering force
because of the low weight on that wheel. This effect is exaggerated
during hard braking (with one rear wheel) or during hard acceleration
(with one front wheel).
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 7 Feb 2007 at 9:55, Osmo S. wrote:
> I´m trying to
> decide if benefits of a 3-wheeler are greater than drawbacks:
IMO, the main advantage of trikes accrues to manfacturers, not to EV
hobbyists.
That is : a small manufacturer can actually build them and offer them for
sale in the US. Defining them as a motorcycle allows them to bypass the
crushingly expensive FMVSS (safety) regulations.
Of course that means that, as the buyer, you get a vehicle that some would
no doubt call (at least relatively) unsafe, but you can't have everything. ;-
)
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
