EV Digest 6393
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Hub Motors, was Re: Porsche invented the hub -mounted electric motor
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Hydrogen Electric Racing?
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Crimping Tool Choice
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Supercapacitor modules
by "Andrew Kane" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Busses, trains and Automobiles WAS Re: Hub Motors, was Re: Porsche
invented the hub -mounted electric motor
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) NO ATTACHMENTS or html please
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Crimping Tool Choice
by "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: EVLN(Lotus' 644hp E-SUV, 350mi range, 155mph top speed)
by "Ian Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: [EV] Cleaner by the Dozen
by Frank John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: 3-wheeler driving experiences / traction principles
by Tom Parker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: EVLN(Lotus' 644hp E-SUV, 350mi range, 155mph top speed)
by "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: RE" Crimper
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: RE" Crimper
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: RE
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Hydrogen Electric Racing?
by DM3 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: wiring size
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: wiring size
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: wiring size
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
HI- I also watched the show, I thought I heard the narrator say 250 mph??
The hyd-foolcell gocart didn't impress me much either. Several years ago
NEDRA discontinued go cart classes for safety reasons. But before that,
on lead acid batt. only: 144v.-102.71mph, 1/4ml.
72v.-57.96 mph, 1/8ml.
48v.-52.51mph, 1/8ml.
Father Time-
Vice Pres. NEDRA
> [Original Message]
> From: Death to All Spammers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Date: 2/7/2007 9:53:34 PM
> Subject: Hub Motors, was Re: Porsche invented the hub -mounted electric
motor
>
> Speaking of which, I just watched FutureCar on Discover channel where
> the creator of the Eliica points out one of the 8 100hp hub motors -
> wild looking car!
>
> > I will try later this week.
> >
> > Cor van de Water wrote:
> > > The list does not allow attachments.
>
> > > Subject: Porsche invented the hub -mounted electric motor for his
> > > Porsche - Lohner Chaise exhibited in 1900 at the paris world's fair
> > >
> > >
> > > He set several speed records with his hybrid and raced it
> regualry. He
> > > also sold a variant of the hybrid to the firedepartments of the day.
> > >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 8:30 PM
Subject: Re: Hydrogen Electric Racing?
> Here is an article on Autobolg Green on this new organization:
>
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/01/11/hydrogen-electric-racing-federation-begins-competition-in-2009-w/
> Here is a particular line that rather ticked me off: "I'm confident that
we
> will look back on this historic day and see it for the truly momentous
event
> that it was -- the day when the Future of Racing was born." This was in
> reference to vehicles powered by electric motors. The quote is from Peter
M.
> DeLorenzo, President and CEO of the Hydrogen Electric Racing Federation. I
> am going to try and find contact information for him and give him a piece
of
> my mind. This will obviously be a sport for multi millionaires as the
> current price of hydrogen fuel cells is in the millions and non of them
put
> out the power levels you would need to do any serious racing. I certainly
> won't be holding my breath.
>
> Roderick Wilde
> But if they run, I'll bet some battery electrics could beat them, while
they are Fueling around "Filling" up Fool Sells vehicles you could slam a
fresh, juicy pack aboard the E racer. Cliff Raswhaler? Got yur ears on. You
could Kokan the hell out of the fool sells!Or for my probably against SOME
silly rule, to string double catenery, like SF's Trakless trollies, around
the trak. 600 volts, too. You could go like hell, only stopping for pottie
breaks!It certainly would be less infrastructure than ya need to supply
enough hydrogen!
My two trolley poles worth
Bob>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It is difficult to add to what Bill Dube' has said on this subject. I think
you covered all the bases plus Bill.
I say "What is wrong with trying to match FAA standards?"
Repeatable results are certainly much easier with the right tools.
If you have a good feel for it, a hammer crimper does a great job. Done alot
of 'em on 6 ga. and 4 ga.
Difficult to impossible to do in anything resembling a tight space though.
You gotta do it on a hard, accessable surface.
I have done many hundreds of crimps on 1/0, 2/0, and 4/0 for road-going and
drag racing EVs, including Gone Postal, White Zombie, FT's drag bikes and
recliner racer, and others.
(RE systems too, needs to be "time proof")
Have always used this tool by Quick Cable - HexCrimp-
http://www.evparts.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=&product_id=1870
http://www.quickcable.com/66.html
No solder, no noalox, just clean metal, I always wire brush (battery
terminal brush) the inside of the brand new terminal (also use Quick Cable
tinned copper terminals/lugs whenever possible, -got gold?-). Always
double-crimp about 1/8 to 3/16 of an inch apart. Always make sure the
stripped wire/cable bottoms in the terminal. Always heat-shrink with high
quality materials.
Makes for low-resistance, permanent connections that reliably last for many
years.
Opinions will vary.
~~~~~~
Roy LeMeur
_________________________________________________________________
Turn searches into helpful donations. Make your search count.
http://click4thecause.live.com/search/charity/default.aspx?source=hmemtagline_donation&FORM=WLMTAG
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
No, you should not. Please. Even when you make a mistake, n00bs like me
learn from the resulting interchange.
On 2/7/07, Martin Klingensmith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I should stop trying to make capacitor calculations in emails.
--
Martin K
Phil Marino wrote:
>
> I'm not sure how you got from coulombs to watts, but here's another way:
>
> Two of these in series would give you a 31.5F, 250V capacitor. ( two
> capacitors in series have half the value of each of the original
> capacitors)
>
> The energy stored in a capacitor is 1/2 x C x V x V
>
> So, the energy at 250V is 1/2 x 31.5 x 250 x 250 = 980,000 Joules.
> The energy at 200V = 1/2 x 31.5 x 200 x 200 = 630,000 J
> The difference ( energy you get out by dropping it from 250V to 200V)
> = 350,000 J
>
> A joule is a watt-second.
>
> So, if you draw it down in 1/2 second, you would be drawing 700,000
> watts, or 0.7 Megawatts ( about 1000 HP).
> It might be hard ( and not all that useful) to use all that energy in
> 1/2 second.
>
> If you draw it down over a minute, you would get 5.800 watts, or about
> 8 HP.
>
> Phil
>
>
>> If you drag it down to 200v over 1/2 second, you would be drawing
12,600
>> watts or 16 HP.
>> This could help a LiIon pack, I'd assume. It's not cheap though.
>>
>> I THINK my math is right..
>>
>> --
>> Martin Klingensmith
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Laugh, share and connect with Windows Live Messenger
>
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>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 12:52 AM
Subject: Hub Motors, was Re: Porsche invented the hub -mounted electric
motor
> Speaking of which, I just watched FutureCar on Discover channel where
> the creator of the Eliica points out one of the 8 100hp hub motors -
> wild looking car!
>
> > I will try later this week.
> >
> > Cor van de Water wrote:
> > > The list does not allow attachments.
>
> > > Subject: Porsche invented the hub -mounted electric motor for his
> > > Porsche - Lohner Chaise exhibited in 1900 at the paris world's fair
> > >
> > >
> > > He set several speed records with his hybrid and raced it
> regualry. He
> > > also sold a variant of the hybrid to the firedepartments of the day.
> > >Hi EVerybody;
> Also, Transit outfits like New Jersey's Public Service had gas/ electric
buses,back in the twenties and thirties, that could operate as trackless
trollies where there was overhead, or light up their gas engine to go
wireless. Being ice electric, as Diseasel Locomotives are still today, they
elininated the gear shifting stuff and were smooth runners.
Somebody mentioned to help clean up CA's air, electrify the RR's Good
start. In only a few months you could lay perfected third rails, Long Island
RR has been third railin' for 100 years, along the key RR routes out of LA
an' SF. Run 'em out, of town, about 50 miles, equip the diseasels with 3rd
rail shoes. make them get out of town on clean electric power, lighting up
the Diseasel out in the desert somewhere.This has been going on for 50 years
on the New Haven RR in NY and CT. I actually SAW a FL-9 origional,last week,
on the Danbury shuttle, training back from BBB. Still grinding out the
miles, as one of the OLDEST Diesel Lokies in service, on the planet. They
were delivered in the mid fifties, held down the Blue ribbon NH jobs;
"Yankee Clipper"," Merchant's Limited." Saved time by blowing through New Ha
ven without the traditional Diesel to Electric and vice versa, time honored
tradition since 1914. They talked in 1915 of electrifying to Boston , it was
finished 6 years ago. We don't rush into things on the RR!Generous Electric
is making P-42's with the 3rd rail option. Drag out yur checkbook, how many
would you like?
Of course you would hafta upgrade a freight diseasel to run on third
rail; You have to pile in a DC controller. Hmmm? Otmar? He does the amps
needed for a Diseasel Zilla<g>!Just get the zillas volts up to 600? 2400
amps at that power will spin a lokie's wheels all ya want!But you DON't
want! You want the TORQUE!Or pull 20k tons of stuff for Wal*Mart, out of the
container terminal. I think Union Pathetic has some Rail Power(google Rail
Power) switchers, in LA. Basicly they are crammed with nice heavy Lead Acid
batteries. Here weight is your friend! A 100 hp Disesel genny to keep them
fresh, a plug in hybrid if you like?
A good start, Training wheels for the RR biz<g>! Sorry, just sorta
slipped out.There is nothing as good as an electric for trains. Loved my
AEM-7's HHP-8's and Acelas, and 50 year old GG-1's You could MOVE stuff
FAST!Passengers and freight.Sorta like electric cars, once you have driven,
you don't wanna go back to ICE power!Was nice of Amtrak to lend me their
electric best for years, and they EVen PAID me!Drive the electric to the
electric, best way to go.Home to Penn Station, or South Station. Of course
the voltages varied<g>!
Flowing with the Current
Bob
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.411 / Virus Database: 268.17.29/673 - Release Date: 2/6/07
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 7 Feb 2007 at 13:56, GWMobile wrote:
> More photos atached.
A reminder that attachments are not accepted by the EVDL. The listserver
will strip them from your message before sending it out.
In fact, sending attachments to the list is a discourtesy to the rest of the
list. This is because at times messages with stripped attachments or html
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If you'd like to show the list a picture, upload it to a web site or to one
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If you have a binary (data) file to share, you may upload it to a file
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may email it to me and I'll post it on evdl.org for you. You can find my
private email address at the bottom of this page :
http://www.evdl.org/help/
Thanks for your understanding.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
one guy from UK did display such a crimper for all kinds
of crimping jobs .. in an industrial expo here about 3 or 4
years ago
..peekay
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pestka, Dennis J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electro Automotive" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 10:34 PM
Subject: RE: Crimping Tool Choice
> Has anyone ever rigged up a hammer crimper with a cheap hydraulic bottle
> jack?
> Seems like a cheap way to make a more reliable type of crimper.
>
> Dennis
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Electro Automotive [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 8:47 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: Crimping Tool Choice
>
> At 05:00 PM 2/6/2007, you wrote:
> >Check the archives for "crimping" to get a full discussion X3 or X5.
> >
> >If you can weld, here is my suggestion:
> >http://www.haritech.com/crimp.htm
> >
> >Folks have successfully used the hammer crimpers, but they are not
> >ideal.]
>
> However, we have sold them to Boeing, so I guess they must be ok.
>
> Shari Prange
> Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
> http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Electric Car Conversion
> Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.29/673 - Release Date: 2/6/2007
5:52 PM
>
>
___________________________________________________________
All new Yahoo! Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and ease
of use." - PC Magazine
http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
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--- Begin Message ---
I saw the ZAP booth at NADA and talked to the engineer from Lotus, as well
as Steve Schneider (CEO).
The car on display was beautiful. It had a 2+2+2 seating configuration,
which I cannot recall ever seeing in a car this size. Very cool (for my
family).
The car on display DID have huge disc brakes, so it clearly wasn't a working
prototype, at least in the manner they insist it will be built (4 hub
motors). The motor on display at the booth was a PML Flightlink water
cooled DC motor, weighing ~65lbs according to the engineer. They must have
amazing specs if it will have enough power to get what looked like 19"
wheels up to 60mph in 4 seconds and still hit 155mph top speed. I have
photos which I hope I can pull part numbers from.
Nobody would comment on batteries, controllers, or anything else about the
drive train. I'm sure all the skepticism is warranted, but I'm still
hopeful. Maybe ZAP is dreaming, but this is the car I would build if I were
dreaming, too.
- ian
-----Original Message-----
From: Roderick Wilde [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 9:18 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: EVLN(Lotus' 644hp E-SUV, 350mi range, 155mph top speed)
Here is a start for your search. Go to: http://nl.newsbank.com Then go to
search and type in Zap. The articles start about the fourth one down. I
would be willing to bet that Zap has generated more press releases than even
Chaz Haba or Joseph Lastrella. That isn't the only paper they generate. Who
knows, they may even come out with electric toilet tissue eventually. You
may find this report of interest. The litigation section toward the bottom
was of interest. http://www.secinfo.com/d1znFa.v1n4.htm
Roderick Wilde
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 1:56 PM
Subject: Re: EVLN(Lotus' 644hp E-SUV, 350mi range, 155mph top speed)
OK, what is it with ZAP and its business practices then ?
I realize this is a public forum etc, but i did search the archives
here and i didnt find anything that would explain these comments...
Care to provide a link to some reading material for newer members ? Or
just some key words to google on ?
-kert
On 1/31/07, Roderick Wilde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> This is all extremely bizarre beyond words. I had always thought of Lotus
> as
> a reputable business building quality products. Sometimes you are viewed
> by
> the world with the company you keep. If anyone has some thoughts on the
> subject you can always write to Lotus Engineering at
> http://www.grouplotus.com/contact/general_enquiry.php?section=17 Maybe
> they
> are just extremely ignorant and need to be educated or maybe they have a
> new
> policy of not caring what people think of their business practices.
>
> Roderick Wilde
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 12:28 PM
> Subject: Re: EVLN(Lotus' 644hp E-SUV, 350mi range, 155mph top speed)
>
>
> There is more detailed report on CNET:
> http://news.com.com/2100-11389_3-6154854.html
> The important bits:
> to be on sale by the end of 2008
> 350 miles range
> 155mph
> 10-min recharge capability
> cost target: $60 000
> CNET reporter dropped in a link to Altair ..
>
> If this was for real, i'd buy it. Thats basically the specs for a
> dream car PLUS its a Lotus
> The pricetag would be justified.
>
> /kert
>
> On 1/31/07, Roderick Wilde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Here is a six letter word for you: Touché!
> >
> > Roderick Wilde
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 10:37 AM
> > Subject: Re: EVLN(Lotus' 644hp E-SUV, 350mi range, 155mph top speed)
> >
> >
> > > On 30 Jan 2007 at 20:23, bruce parmenter wrote:
> > >
> > >> ... all-electric SUV ... codeveloped by Lotus and ZAP ...
> > >
> > > Let me guess. This news release came from Zap, not Lotus.
> > >
> > > [Uncovers eyes.] Was I right? Did I win? ;-)
> > >
> > > Perhaps I'm just a cynic. But it seems to me that Zap and the late,
> > > unlamented BAT have more in common than a 3-letter name.
> > >
> > > David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> > > EV List Administrator
> > >
> > > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> > > Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
> > > or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> > > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> > > Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
> > > To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
> > > the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> > > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > > Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.17.17/661 - Release Date:
> > > 1/30/2007
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.17.17/661 - Release Date:
> > 1/30/2007
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.17.17/661 - Release Date: 1/30/2007
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.17.17/661 - Release Date: 1/30/2007
>
>
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.17.17/661 - Release Date: 1/30/2007
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.17.17/661 - Release Date: 1/30/2007
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message ----
From: Eduardo Kaftanski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Wednesday, February 7, 2007 6:57:18 PM
Subject: Re: [EV] Cleaner by the Dozen
"...CO2 is the new real enemy and Diesels emit less than
gas vehicles if they get better mileage."
True but standard emission standards can't be thrown by the wayside. Diesel is
more energy dense which is why it returns better mileage on a per-gallon basis.
--
Eduardo K. | Some say it's forgive and forget.
http://www.carfun.cl | I say forget about forgiving just accept.
http://e.nn.cl | And get the hell out of town.
http://ev.nn.cl | Minnie Driver, Grosse Point Blank
____________________________________________________________________________________
Bored stiff? Loosen up...
Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.
http://games.yahoo.com/games/front
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, 2007-02-07 at 06:45 -0800, Kip C. Anderson wrote:
> Weight distribution is the most important factor, as even a 4 wheeled car
> can lift it's rear wheels under hard braking. I had a car that would
> routinely life the inside rear wheel any time I turned under hard braking,
> but if you really want to see what I mean, search for 'autotest mini' on
> Google Videos (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dU966ADlVIg). And wait for
> the ending. ;)
An ICE mini will lift the inside wheel in corners with no brakes at all,
at slow speeds too if the road profile is "interesting" enough.
I'm building an electric mini, and while I have no doubt I'll never lift
a boot full of batteries even with slicks, I hope to do well in
motorkahna. This is a front wheel drive car if anyone hasn't seen one
before.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
PML Flightlink, eh ?
Ok this might be the best clue here ..
PML DID demo a 4WD Mini with claimed > 640 bhp a while ago.
http://www.pmlflightlink.com/archive/news_mini.html
So maybe ZAP just did two plus two, took different numbers from
different EV-related technologies ( PML inwheel motors, Altair/A123
fast-charge batteries, Tesla price range ) and came up with a dream
car that they _would like_ to build, if they'd get all this integrated
into one working package.
/kert
On 2/8/07, Ian Ward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I saw the ZAP booth at NADA and talked to the engineer from Lotus, as well
as Steve Schneider (CEO).
The car on display was beautiful. It had a 2+2+2 seating configuration,
which I cannot recall ever seeing in a car this size. Very cool (for my
family).
The car on display DID have huge disc brakes, so it clearly wasn't a working
prototype, at least in the manner they insist it will be built (4 hub
motors). The motor on display at the booth was a PML Flightlink water
cooled DC motor, weighing ~65lbs according to the engineer. They must have
amazing specs if it will have enough power to get what looked like 19"
wheels up to 60mph in 4 seconds and still hit 155mph top speed. I have
photos which I hope I can pull part numbers from.
Nobody would comment on batteries, controllers, or anything else about the
drive train. I'm sure all the skepticism is warranted, but I'm still
hopeful. Maybe ZAP is dreaming, but this is the car I would build if I were
dreaming, too.
- ian
-----Original Message-----
From: Roderick Wilde [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 9:18 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: EVLN(Lotus' 644hp E-SUV, 350mi range, 155mph top speed)
Here is a start for your search. Go to: http://nl.newsbank.com Then go to
search and type in Zap. The articles start about the fourth one down. I
would be willing to bet that Zap has generated more press releases than even
Chaz Haba or Joseph Lastrella. That isn't the only paper they generate. Who
knows, they may even come out with electric toilet tissue eventually. You
may find this report of interest. The litigation section toward the bottom
was of interest. http://www.secinfo.com/d1znFa.v1n4.htm
Roderick Wilde
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 1:56 PM
Subject: Re: EVLN(Lotus' 644hp E-SUV, 350mi range, 155mph top speed)
OK, what is it with ZAP and its business practices then ?
I realize this is a public forum etc, but i did search the archives
here and i didnt find anything that would explain these comments...
Care to provide a link to some reading material for newer members ? Or
just some key words to google on ?
-kert
On 1/31/07, Roderick Wilde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> This is all extremely bizarre beyond words. I had always thought of Lotus
> as
> a reputable business building quality products. Sometimes you are viewed
> by
> the world with the company you keep. If anyone has some thoughts on the
> subject you can always write to Lotus Engineering at
> http://www.grouplotus.com/contact/general_enquiry.php?section=17 Maybe
> they
> are just extremely ignorant and need to be educated or maybe they have a
> new
> policy of not caring what people think of their business practices.
>
> Roderick Wilde
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 12:28 PM
> Subject: Re: EVLN(Lotus' 644hp E-SUV, 350mi range, 155mph top speed)
>
>
> There is more detailed report on CNET:
> http://news.com.com/2100-11389_3-6154854.html
> The important bits:
> to be on sale by the end of 2008
> 350 miles range
> 155mph
> 10-min recharge capability
> cost target: $60 000
> CNET reporter dropped in a link to Altair ..
>
> If this was for real, i'd buy it. Thats basically the specs for a
> dream car PLUS its a Lotus
> The pricetag would be justified.
>
> /kert
>
> On 1/31/07, Roderick Wilde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Here is a six letter word for you: Touché!
> >
> > Roderick Wilde
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 10:37 AM
> > Subject: Re: EVLN(Lotus' 644hp E-SUV, 350mi range, 155mph top speed)
> >
> >
> > > On 30 Jan 2007 at 20:23, bruce parmenter wrote:
> > >
> > >> ... all-electric SUV ... codeveloped by Lotus and ZAP ...
> > >
> > > Let me guess. This news release came from Zap, not Lotus.
> > >
> > > [Uncovers eyes.] Was I right? Did I win? ;-)
> > >
> > > Perhaps I'm just a cynic. But it seems to me that Zap and the late,
> > > unlamented BAT have more in common than a 3-letter name.
> > >
> > > David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> > > EV List Administrator
> > >
> > > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> > > Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
> > > or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> > > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> > > Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
> > > To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
> > > the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> > > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > > Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.17.17/661 - Release Date:
> > > 1/30/2007
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.17.17/661 - Release Date:
> > 1/30/2007
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.17.17/661 - Release Date: 1/30/2007
>
>
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>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.17.17/661 - Release Date: 1/30/2007
>
>
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.17.17/661 - Release Date: 1/30/2007
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.17.17/661 - Release Date: 1/30/2007
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I got the burdy crimper because the dies close all the way then release,
a preset amount every time. Because I could easily do a cable end that
is in the vehicle like the anderson connectors and because just thinking
about the shear number of connections to be made with the hammer crimper
made my shoulder hurt :-) . I thought about the giant bolt cutter style
they sell at the connector store but the size and the needed force made
me shy away. They wanted so much for them that ebaying a used burdy was
more attractive. I also thought i might want to make up 4/0 connections
later or do more EV's for family and friends.
I looked at the dieless crimpers and the reason I chose against them may
be silly but I wanted the heatshrink to make a good seal around the
connector and the 360 degree burndy die makes a smooth crimp. The
dieless ones make a heck of a dimple and look like they distort the
shape more which can translate into the alignment of the post connection
part.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What is the name of the crimper? A burdy? Where can those be found?
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jeff Shanab
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 8:06
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: RE" Crimper
I got the burdy crimper because the dies close all the way then release,
a preset amount every time. Because I could easily do a cable end that
is in the vehicle like the anderson connectors and because just thinking
about the shear number of connections to be made with the hammer crimper
made my shoulder hurt :-) . I thought about the giant bolt cutter style
they sell at the connector store but the size and the needed force made
me shy away. They wanted so much for them that ebaying a used burdy was
more attractive. I also thought i might want to make up 4/0 connections
later or do more EV's for family and friends.
I looked at the dieless crimpers and the reason I chose against them may
be silly but I wanted the heatshrink to make a good seal around the
connector and the 360 degree burndy die makes a smooth crimp. The
dieless ones make a heck of a dimple and look like they distort the
shape more which can translate into the alignment of the post connection
part.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: "Dewey, Jody
>What is the name of the crimper? A burdy? Where can those be found?
Burndy.
From: Jeff Shanab
> I got the burdy crimper because the dies close all the way then release,
> a preset amount every time.
Yes; that's why you get more consistent results. These crimpers have a ratchet
that lets you close the handles, but not open them again until you have closed
them the "right" amount.
Regarding the strength to operate them; mine have handles 2 feet long. That's
one heck of a lot of leverage. I don't think it takes more than 20-30 lbs on
the handles to crimp even 2/0. It's about twice this for 4/0, but I rarely need
anything this heavy.
If I'm doing a bunch of crimps, I usually put one handle in the bench vice, so
I only need to pull on the one free handle. This frees up the other hand to
hold the wire and terminal in position.
> I wanted the heatshrink to make a good seal around the connector and
> the 360 degree burndy die makes a smooth crimp.
I usually use the thick-walled heatshrink that has hot glue inside it. The glue
melts when you shrink it, forming a much better seal over irregular surfaces.
--
Lee Hart
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I agree, you can read what Jimmy had to say and post a reply at EVworld:
http://www.evworld.com/view.cfm?page=news&newsid=13908&url=
mario
> > From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Hydrogen Electric Racing?
> Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 17:30:49 -0800
>
> Here is an article on Autobolg Green on this new organization:
>
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/01/11/hydrogen-electric-racing-federation-begins-competition-in-2009-w/
>
> Here is a particular line that rather ticked me off: "I'm confident that
> we
> will look back on this historic day and see it for the truly momentous
> event
> that it was -- the day when the Future of Racing was born." This was in
> reference to vehicles powered by electric motors. The quote is from
> Peter M.
> DeLorenzo, President and CEO of the Hydrogen Electric Racing Federation.
> I
> am going to try and find contact information for him and give him a
> piece of
> my mind. This will obviously be a sport for multi millionaires as the
> current price of hydrogen fuel cells is in the millions and non of them
> put
> out the power levels you would need to do any serious racing. I
> certainly
> won't be holding my breath.
>
> Roderick Wilde
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<shakes head>
Roland, at 200 amps a 2/0 cable drops about 0.5V regardless of pack
voltage. You'll see the same voltage drop at 120V or 240V when carrying
200 amps.
Of course the cable size has NOTHING to do with battery sag which is what
you are describing.
Battery sag is related to the batteries and has nothing to do with what
size cables you use or how many connections there are, all that matters is
how much current you pull, the particulars of your battery (some batteries
sag less than others), and how well charged it is.
> I said the total run of 50 feet circuit length, which includes the 2/0
> cables, cable lugs, batteries, battery links, contactors, shunts and
> controller. In my EV this is about 3 percent voltage drop in a EV 50 foot
> circuit which includes the battery links.
>
> I am running 50 feet of circuit length of which the voltage reads 192
> volts
> at no load, and at exactly 200 amp load, my battery voltage reads about
> 186
> volts which is about 3 percent volt drop of the applied voltage. I read
> this ampere and voltage with four industrial meters and also the E-meter,
> and they read all the same.
>
> Roland
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 11:26 PM
> Subject: Re: wiring size
>
>
>> I think something is wrong with your math.
>>
>> The voltage drop should be constant at a give current and length, not a
>> percentage of applied voltage.
>>
>> 1/0 cable has about 0.096 ohms resistance per thousand feet, or 0.0048
>> ohms for 50 feet. By my calculations, that works out to ~0.8 volts at
>> 170
>> amps and ~0.9 V at 195 amps.
>>
>> I don't have a clue how you came up with 10 volts of drop at 195 amps,
>> but
>> that would make a nice space heater (almost 2,000 watts) ;-)
>>
>> > Hello Tim,
>> >
>> > The amperage rating of the conductor depends on many factors. The
>> type
>> > of
>> > conductor, temperature rating of the insulation, running it in a close
>> > compartment and the circuit length.
>> >
>> > The circuit length is the total circuit loop length, not just the
>> length
>> > of
>> > run between two points. In my EV, I have a total run of 25 feet of
>> > conductor including all the battery lines, to the controller and to
>> the
>> > motor. The circuit length is 50 feet.
>> >
>> > 1/0 copper stranded bare wire run in air is good for 175 amps
>> continuous
>> > for
>> > a 3 percent voltage drop.
>> >
>> > A 1/0 copper stranded wire that has a insulation rating of 90 degrees
>> C
>> > or
>> > 194 degrees F is good for 170 amps continuous with a 3 percent voltage
>> > drop.
>> >
>> > A 2/0 copper stranded wire with a insulation rating of 90 degrees C is
>> > good
>> > for 195 amps continuous at 3 percent VD.
>> >
>> > The above distances are at 100 feet circuit length, so the voltage
>> drop
>> > will
>> > be proportional to the length. At 50 feet circuit length it will be
>> > about
>> > 1.5 percent voltage drop.
>> >
>> > At 72 volts, it will drop to about 62 volts under a 195 amp load for a
>> > 50
>> > foot circuit length. As you increase the ampere, the voltage will
>> drop
>> > proportional.
>> >
>> > It would be best to use 2/0 multi strand copper wire with a voltage
>> > rating
>> > of 300 volts for any voltages under 250 volts and 600 volt rating for
>> > voltages over 300 volts.
>> >
>> > Roland
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Tim Gamber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> > To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
>> > Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 8:32 PM
>> > Subject: wiring size
>> >
>> >
>> >> is 1/0 wiring big enough to take 450 amps for short bursts and
>> 100-200
>> >> amps
>> >> continuous at 72 volts?
>> >>
>> >> _________________________________________________________________
>> >> http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=43.658648~-79.383962&style=r&lvl=15&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=3702663&cid=7ABE80D1746919B4!1329
>> >> >From January 26 to February 8, 2007
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
>> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever
>> I
>> wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
>> legalistic signature is void.
>>
>>
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I use 2 guage wiring on my motorcycle and it carries this many amps no
problem, but because it is a motorcycle the overall length of the circuit is
fairly short, probably around 10 feet.
damon
From: "Tim Gamber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: wiring size
Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 20:32:42 -0700
is 1/0 wiring big enough to take 450 amps for short bursts and 100-200 amps
continuous at 72 volts?
_________________________________________________________________
http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=43.658648~-79.383962&style=r&lvl=15&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=3702663&cid=7ABE80D1746919B4!1329
From January 26 to February 8, 2007
_________________________________________________________________
Search for grocery stores. Find gratitude. Turn a simple search into
something more.
http://click4thecause.live.com/search/charity/default.aspx?source=hmemtagline_gratitude&FORM=WLMTAG
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We change out a feeder on a building that had 50 feet of No. Awg 6 wire from
the transformer, which was connected to about 100 feet of No. Awg. 10 to a
power outlet. They had a 250 feet of No.12 AWG multi stranded copper wire
plug into this power out that ran to a 18 amp load. They could not
understand why the voltage only read 90 volts!
There was too much voltage drop for the size of the conductors running 300
feet for that load. We replace the largest ones we can get in the existing
conduit, so the voltage drop was now to about 115 volt.
Therefore the size of conductor made a difference at the same load of 18
amps at the same voltage.
If you apply the same voltage and ampere to different size conductors, the
smaller conductor will have more voltage drop. Every electrical work knows
this.
I think the problem we have, is that you said, changing the ampere and
distance at the same voltage results in a voltage drop which is true, while
I say the ampere and distance is constant, but a reducing the wire size
increases the voltage drop which is also true.
As electrical workers, we install many different length of conductors on a
20 amp circuit. So we mainly think of the length of the circuit for that
size wire. The preferred maximum run length of a No. 12 wire is 50 feet.
At and after 50 feet we use a No. 10 wire on a 20 amp circuit, even though
the No. 10 wire is rated for 30 amps. A No. 8 wire is run for a maximum of
40 feet for a 40 amp circuit and so on.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 8:59 AM
Subject: Re: wiring size
> <shakes head>
> Roland, at 200 amps a 2/0 cable drops about 0.5V regardless of pack
> voltage. You'll see the same voltage drop at 120V or 240V when carrying
> 200 amps.
>
> Of course the cable size has NOTHING to do with battery sag which is what
> you are describing.
> Battery sag is related to the batteries and has nothing to do with what
> size cables you use or how many connections there are, all that matters is
> how much current you pull, the particulars of your battery (some batteries
> sag less than others), and how well charged it is.
>
> > I said the total run of 50 feet circuit length, which includes the 2/0
> > cables, cable lugs, batteries, battery links, contactors, shunts and
> > controller. In my EV this is about 3 percent voltage drop in a EV 50
> > foot
> > circuit which includes the battery links.
> >
> > I am running 50 feet of circuit length of which the voltage reads 192
> > volts
> > at no load, and at exactly 200 amp load, my battery voltage reads about
> > 186
> > volts which is about 3 percent volt drop of the applied voltage. I read
> > this ampere and voltage with four industrial meters and also the
> > E-meter,
> > and they read all the same.
> >
> > Roland
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 11:26 PM
> > Subject: Re: wiring size
> >
> >
> >> I think something is wrong with your math.
> >>
> >> The voltage drop should be constant at a give current and length, not a
> >> percentage of applied voltage.
> >>
> >> 1/0 cable has about 0.096 ohms resistance per thousand feet, or 0.0048
> >> ohms for 50 feet. By my calculations, that works out to ~0.8 volts at
> >> 170
> >> amps and ~0.9 V at 195 amps.
> >>
> >> I don't have a clue how you came up with 10 volts of drop at 195 amps,
> >> but
> >> that would make a nice space heater (almost 2,000 watts) ;-)
> >>
> >> > Hello Tim,
> >> >
> >> > The amperage rating of the conductor depends on many factors. The
> >> type
> >> > of
> >> > conductor, temperature rating of the insulation, running it in a
> >> > close
> >> > compartment and the circuit length.
> >> >
> >> > The circuit length is the total circuit loop length, not just the
> >> length
> >> > of
> >> > run between two points. In my EV, I have a total run of 25 feet of
> >> > conductor including all the battery lines, to the controller and to
> >> the
> >> > motor. The circuit length is 50 feet.
> >> >
> >> > 1/0 copper stranded bare wire run in air is good for 175 amps
> >> continuous
> >> > for
> >> > a 3 percent voltage drop.
> >> >
> >> > A 1/0 copper stranded wire that has a insulation rating of 90 degrees
> >> C
> >> > or
> >> > 194 degrees F is good for 170 amps continuous with a 3 percent
> >> > voltage
> >> > drop.
> >> >
> >> > A 2/0 copper stranded wire with a insulation rating of 90 degrees C
> >> > is
> >> > good
> >> > for 195 amps continuous at 3 percent VD.
> >> >
> >> > The above distances are at 100 feet circuit length, so the voltage
> >> drop
> >> > will
> >> > be proportional to the length. At 50 feet circuit length it will be
> >> > about
> >> > 1.5 percent voltage drop.
> >> >
> >> > At 72 volts, it will drop to about 62 volts under a 195 amp load for
> >> > a
> >> > 50
> >> > foot circuit length. As you increase the ampere, the voltage will
> >> drop
> >> > proportional.
> >> >
> >> > It would be best to use 2/0 multi strand copper wire with a voltage
> >> > rating
> >> > of 300 volts for any voltages under 250 volts and 600 volt rating for
> >> > voltages over 300 volts.
> >> >
> >> > Roland
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: "Tim Gamber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> > To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> >> > Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 8:32 PM
> >> > Subject: wiring size
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> is 1/0 wiring big enough to take 450 amps for short bursts and
> >> 100-200
> >> >> amps
> >> >> continuous at 72 volts?
> >> >>
> >> >> _________________________________________________________________
> >> >> http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=43.658648~-79.383962&style=r&lvl=15&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=3702663&cid=7ABE80D1746919B4!1329
> >> >> >From January 26 to February 8, 2007
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
> >> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do
> >> whatever
> >> I
> >> wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
> >> legalistic signature is void.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
> wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
> legalistic signature is void.
>
>
--- End Message ---
