EV Digest 6411
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Chain Noise Re: Personal Electric Transport
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Calgary electric trains, Give me a BRAKE!
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: EVAutoX.com Launched to Serve EV AutoCross Enthusiasts
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Soneil Chargers
by "Markus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: EVAutoX.com Launched to Serve EV AutoCross Enthusiasts
by "Shawn Waggoner, FLEAA" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Heaven forbid but if a Rav4 EV was totaled?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: EVAutoX.com Launched to Serve EV AutoCross Enthusiasts
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Chain Noise Re: Personal Electric Transport
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: EVAutoX.com Launched to Serve EV AutoCross Enthusiasts
by "Shawn Waggoner, FLEAA" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Soneil Chargers
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) re: Vector
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Vacuum pump running constantly
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Fabulous New Energy Source for EVs!
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Chain Noise Re: Personal Electric Transport
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Fabulous New Energy Source for EVs!
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: Speaking of Hybrids
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Vector chargers
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hi EVerybody;
The Dumbing of America, part.....fillin the dotted line! Gees! Ya make
something a bit nicer(quieter) and you end up with this!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kip C. Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 10:02 AM
Subject: Chain Noise Re: Personal Electric Transport
> After driving a hybrid vehicle for 6 months, I'd suggest that a little
noise
> when you travel is a good thing. Allot of people with GOOD hearing use
> their ears for vehicular clues when walking across streets and parking
lots.
But NOT the EYES they were built with, @#$%^!!!
And RR crossings! A million db. blast usually wakes them up!
> I lost count of how meany people we caught off guard when our ICE was
> dormant. The blind don't even have a chance.
Many fine ICE mobiles are dead silent, too. Amazing engineering, I would
say?
a Tap, not a blast of the horn?
> I would not be surprised if a noise making device of low volume becomes
> mandatory on hybrids and electrics in the future.
> On locomotives we use a bell, when you are gunna move a lokie, you reach
for the 'Bell" knob. As the Lokie driver you can't see all your corners.an
electronic' Ding Ding" NOT those godamn , obnoxious back up alarms like
trux. They should be banned from the planet!
My two DB worth
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Gamber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 12:14 AM
Subject: Calgary electric trains
> Some C trains broke down today and caused huge delays for other trains.
Does
> anyone know why this happens when it gets cold out? We have two C train
> models with a AC motor and a DC motor. Today it was -20C.
Hi Tim, an' EVerybody;
Well! Hell! No Wonder! That's COLD! Trains air brake systems don't like
cold weather. A little moisture goes a long way!Brake valves and pneumatic-
electric controls freeeze up, effectively killing the train. Train brakes
are nature's most perfect fail SAFE systems. You are dead in your trax, til
the brake issue is fixed! Rather that than a guided missle runaway, with
several hundred tons of real steel.Other trains worked fine, no doubt. You
have to take a live train, tie it onto a frozen one, cut the brakes out
manually, and WALK it out of the way. With great care as you must not let it
get away! See above. You try to shove it out of the way,siding, or better
yet, to a heated shop. Crew aboard ready on the handbrakes IF anything goes
aray. Multiply this by several frozen trains= FUN morning! Boy can THIS
crap up a mourning Rush Hour!
Ac and DC the motors love cold weather, its the Other Stuff that can
ruin your commute in sub human weather. I can hear the Miami Tri-Rail Folks,
an' fans, laffing here<g>!Of course A/C issues plague those guyz in July!
In training
Bob
_________________________________________________________________
> Free Alerts : Be smart - let your information find you !
> http://alerts.live.com/Alerts/Default.aspx
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.411 / Virus Database: 268.17.37/682 - Release Date: 2/12/07
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chip and EVlisters.
You might want to contact Tim Suddard at AUTO-X magazine.
They are in Daytona Beach Florida.
I was one of the very early advertisers in this magazine when I was building
timing systems back in the mid to late 80s.
Maybe it's time EV AutoCross gets some national exposure.
Feel free to use my name I am sure he remebers.
I would not mind doing a Ev Cross, but folks to can't be at the same time as
the drag races!!
Rich Rudman
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Manzanita Micro
360-297-7383,
Cell 360-620-6266
Production shop 360-297-1660
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chip Gribben" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 10:35 PM
Subject: Re: EVAutoX.com Launched to Serve EV AutoCross Enthusiasts
> This is great stuff.
>
> What Shawn and Mike are doing couldn't happen at a better time. The
> EV Challenge, which has been held in the Carolinas for several years
> now, has been in limbo since it's organizer, Ralph Goodwin passed on
> last year. Ralph had done a great job with the EV Challenge which
> brought in up to 20 or more vehicles racing per year and major
> sponsorship from the local utility there.
>
> Also, since Nancy Hazard resigned from the Tour de Sol last year the
> event has been in limbo. Ollie Perry who is a member of the Eastern
> Electric Vehicle Association in Pennsylvannia is organizing a
> substitute EVent planned for June 9 to fill the void left by the Tour
> de Sol.
>
> So there is a need for a group to come along start an AutoCross
> organization. The 2006 Battery Beach Burnout was a blast. Charles let
> me run his RAV-4 in it several times. And this past autocross at the
> 2007 Battery Beach Burnout was a success thanks to Shawn, Matt and
> Lowell and the gang from the Florida EAA.
>
> Mike Harvey and his wife Tracey are hard at work planning an
> Autocross for the upcoming NEDRA Power of DC in June to go with the
> NEDRA drag racing event June 3. Our preliminary plans are to run the
> Autocross Saturday June 2 and the NEDRA drag race June 3. This will
> take place in the Frederick-Hagerstown area of Maryland.
>
> So this is an exciting time for an organization to serve AutoCross
> Enthusiasts. I imagine we will continue to have both a NEDRA and
> EVAutoX event held at the same venue in years to come.
>
> I'm sure Shawn and Mike will be able to pull off some successful
> AutoCross EVents
>
> Chip Gribben
> NEDRA
> http://www.nedra.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Feb 12, 2007, at 12:31 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
>
> > From: "Shawn Waggoner, FLEAA" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Date: February 12, 2007 1:19:13 AM EST
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Subject: EVAutoX.com Launched to Serve EV AutoCross Enthusiasts
> >
> >
> > Hi Everyone,
> >
> > Following the huge success of the autocross event at the recent
> > Battery
> > Beach Burnout hosted by the Florida Electric Auto Association in
> > Jupiter,
> > Florida this past January, several enthusiasts have formed a special
> > interest group for EV Autocross Enthusiast everywhere.
> >
> > EVAutoX is a group of Electric Vehicle (EV) enthusiasts, racers, and
> > professionals dedicated to the promotion of Electric Vehicle Autocross
> > racing activities around the world.
> >
> > The mission of EVAutox is to provide a public forum via appropriate
> > media
> > for the collaboration required to successfully promote and manage safe
> > practices for EV Autocross. The objectives of EVAutox are to:
> >
> > - provide framework for the development of necessary documentation
> > and tools
> > that help promote Autocross in the EV community.
> > - establish and document related standards and practices for EV
> > Autocross
> > racing activities
> > - provide a framework for repeatable event hosting within the EV
> > community
> > - establish relationships with appropriate organizations who can help
> > further the promotion of EV Autocross in order to incorporate safety
> > guidelines and standards in additional Autocross venues outside of
> > the EV
> > community
> >
> > Our goal is to have interested people from around the community
> > discuss
> > issues in the forum and present these ideas in the WIKI as a
> > guideline for
> > the community at large.
> >
> > The website (http://www.EVAutoX.com) is open to everyone and
> > features News
> > about the world of EV Autocross, a User Forum to discuss topics
> > related to
> > EV Autocross and Collaboration Tools (Wiki) for the development of
> > documentation for public use in coordinating EV AutoXevents.
> >
> > The EVAutoX group and website are co-sponsored by Suncoast Electric
> > Vehicle
> > Outfitters (www.suncoast.net) and Harvey Coachworks and EV
> > (www.hevimotors.com)
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Shawn Waggoner,
> > Suncoast EV Outfitter/FLEAA
> >
> > Mike Harvey
> > Harvey Coachworks and EV
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I had a number of discussions a few years back with Sach Jain, one of the
leading Soneil charging algorithm developers. Most of Soneil's chargers have
a UIU algorithm that doesn't shut off but rather keeps the voltage at a
float level once batteries are fully charged. However, Mr. Jain regarded
the other chargers that "shut off" (such as the 1212) to be the better
algorithm as they pulse the battery (and the higher quality charger,
they also have an aluminum case instead of a plastic only case) .
They charge e.g. with the full 5A until the battery reaches a set voltage
(can be adjusted with a poti if the case is opened), then they switch to
this pulsing mode, shutting of whenever the battery reaches another set
voltage. The pulses become shorter and longer apart from each other the
fuller
the battery gets, eventually they are very infrequent. I am not sure what to
believe but I tend to think that leaving the battery on a float charge for
a long time is only wasting energy. I use both types of soneil chargers on
my elec-trak and (the 1212 is a pulsing, the 1214 has a constant float
voltage)
and I combine them with a simple kill-a-watt type meter that also has a
timer and
shuts off after a time that is set long enough to ensure the batteries were
fully
charged.
Markus
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Roden
> Sent: Dienstag, 13. Februar 2007 15:38
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Soneil Chargers
>
>
> On 13 Feb 2007 at 7:23, Darryl McMahon wrote:
>
> > I guess we could debate what "shutting off" means.
>
> Perhaps. To me it means that when the battery is charged,
> the charger stops
> charging the battery entirely. It doesn't start again unless
> I invite it to
> do so. IMO, this seems like a fairly reasonable description
> of "off." ;-)
>
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EV List Administrator
>
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>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Rich,
Thanks for the info on the magazine, that's a great idea. I will be in
Daytona next month so maybe I can drop in on them as well.
I think Chip and Mike are going to try to hold an EVAutocross in June at the
Power of DC, much like we did at BBB. We try to hold the drag race at one
time and the autox the next day or at least well spaced out so people have
time to charge and change any settings on their cars. At the BBB we drag
race Friday night and run the autox the next afternoon. Having both at the
event really does help show off the capabilities of the EV, not only on the
drag strip, but on the course - power and handling. To watch some of the
EV's power down the track and then watch them run an autocross certainly
does change some people's views.
The participation and interest in EV autox has been great. It's a lot of fun
to not only enter but watch. Some folks, like some of the school teams, will
also have multiple drivers per car which adds to the fun. The grins keep
coming!
Shawn Waggoner
Florida EAA
561-543-9223
www.floridaeaa.org
-----Original Message-----
From: Rich Rudman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 11:35 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: EVAutoX.com Launched to Serve EV AutoCross Enthusiasts
Chip and EVlisters.
You might want to contact Tim Suddard at AUTO-X magazine.
They are in Daytona Beach Florida.
I was one of the very early advertisers in this magazine when I was building
timing systems back in the mid to late 80s.
Maybe it's time EV AutoCross gets some national exposure.
Feel free to use my name I am sure he remebers.
I would not mind doing a Ev Cross, but folks to can't be at the same time as
the drag races!!
Rich Rudman
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Manzanita Micro
360-297-7383,
Cell 360-620-6266
Production shop 360-297-1660
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chip Gribben" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 10:35 PM
Subject: Re: EVAutoX.com Launched to Serve EV AutoCross Enthusiasts
> This is great stuff.
>
> What Shawn and Mike are doing couldn't happen at a better time. The
> EV Challenge, which has been held in the Carolinas for several years
> now, has been in limbo since it's organizer, Ralph Goodwin passed on
> last year. Ralph had done a great job with the EV Challenge which
> brought in up to 20 or more vehicles racing per year and major
> sponsorship from the local utility there.
>
> Also, since Nancy Hazard resigned from the Tour de Sol last year the
> event has been in limbo. Ollie Perry who is a member of the Eastern
> Electric Vehicle Association in Pennsylvannia is organizing a
> substitute EVent planned for June 9 to fill the void left by the Tour
> de Sol.
>
> So there is a need for a group to come along start an AutoCross
> organization. The 2006 Battery Beach Burnout was a blast. Charles let
> me run his RAV-4 in it several times. And this past autocross at the
> 2007 Battery Beach Burnout was a success thanks to Shawn, Matt and
> Lowell and the gang from the Florida EAA.
>
> Mike Harvey and his wife Tracey are hard at work planning an
> Autocross for the upcoming NEDRA Power of DC in June to go with the
> NEDRA drag racing event June 3. Our preliminary plans are to run the
> Autocross Saturday June 2 and the NEDRA drag race June 3. This will
> take place in the Frederick-Hagerstown area of Maryland.
>
> So this is an exciting time for an organization to serve AutoCross
> Enthusiasts. I imagine we will continue to have both a NEDRA and
> EVAutoX event held at the same venue in years to come.
>
> I'm sure Shawn and Mike will be able to pull off some successful
> AutoCross EVents
>
> Chip Gribben
> NEDRA
> http://www.nedra.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Feb 12, 2007, at 12:31 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
>
> > From: "Shawn Waggoner, FLEAA" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Date: February 12, 2007 1:19:13 AM EST
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Subject: EVAutoX.com Launched to Serve EV AutoCross Enthusiasts
> >
> >
> > Hi Everyone,
> >
> > Following the huge success of the autocross event at the recent
> > Battery
> > Beach Burnout hosted by the Florida Electric Auto Association in
> > Jupiter,
> > Florida this past January, several enthusiasts have formed a special
> > interest group for EV Autocross Enthusiast everywhere.
> >
> > EVAutoX is a group of Electric Vehicle (EV) enthusiasts, racers, and
> > professionals dedicated to the promotion of Electric Vehicle Autocross
> > racing activities around the world.
> >
> > The mission of EVAutox is to provide a public forum via appropriate
> > media
> > for the collaboration required to successfully promote and manage safe
> > practices for EV Autocross. The objectives of EVAutox are to:
> >
> > - provide framework for the development of necessary documentation
> > and tools
> > that help promote Autocross in the EV community.
> > - establish and document related standards and practices for EV
> > Autocross
> > racing activities
> > - provide a framework for repeatable event hosting within the EV
> > community
> > - establish relationships with appropriate organizations who can help
> > further the promotion of EV Autocross in order to incorporate safety
> > guidelines and standards in additional Autocross venues outside of
> > the EV
> > community
> >
> > Our goal is to have interested people from around the community
> > discuss
> > issues in the forum and present these ideas in the WIKI as a
> > guideline for
> > the community at large.
> >
> > The website (http://www.EVAutoX.com) is open to everyone and
> > features News
> > about the world of EV Autocross, a User Forum to discuss topics
> > related to
> > EV Autocross and Collaboration Tools (Wiki) for the development of
> > documentation for public use in coordinating EV AutoXevents.
> >
> > The EVAutoX group and website are co-sponsored by Suncoast Electric
> > Vehicle
> > Outfitters (www.suncoast.net) and Harvey Coachworks and EV
> > (www.hevimotors.com)
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Shawn Waggoner,
> > Suncoast EV Outfitter/FLEAA
> >
> > Mike Harvey
> > Harvey Coachworks and EV
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Could a stock RAV4 be converted to a Factory EV status by pulling all the EV
parts off a totaled Rav 4ev????? Has anyone done this? Lawrence Rhodes.....
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Grins are the important part!!
Goldie is basicly Auto-X ready.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shawn Waggoner, FLEAA" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 9:06 AM
Subject: RE: EVAutoX.com Launched to Serve EV AutoCross Enthusiasts
> Hey Rich,
>
> Thanks for the info on the magazine, that's a great idea. I will be in
> Daytona next month so maybe I can drop in on them as well.
>
> I think Chip and Mike are going to try to hold an EVAutocross in June at
the
> Power of DC, much like we did at BBB. We try to hold the drag race at one
> time and the autox the next day or at least well spaced out so people have
> time to charge and change any settings on their cars. At the BBB we drag
> race Friday night and run the autox the next afternoon. Having both at the
> event really does help show off the capabilities of the EV, not only on
the
> drag strip, but on the course - power and handling. To watch some of the
> EV's power down the track and then watch them run an autocross certainly
> does change some people's views.
>
> The participation and interest in EV autox has been great. It's a lot of
fun
> to not only enter but watch. Some folks, like some of the school teams,
will
> also have multiple drivers per car which adds to the fun. The grins keep
> coming!
>
> Shawn Waggoner
> Florida EAA
> 561-543-9223
> www.floridaeaa.org
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rich Rudman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 11:35 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: EVAutoX.com Launched to Serve EV AutoCross Enthusiasts
>
> Chip and EVlisters.
>
> You might want to contact Tim Suddard at AUTO-X magazine.
> They are in Daytona Beach Florida.
>
> I was one of the very early advertisers in this magazine when I was
building
> timing systems back in the mid to late 80s.
>
> Maybe it's time EV AutoCross gets some national exposure.
>
> Feel free to use my name I am sure he remebers.
>
> I would not mind doing a Ev Cross, but folks to can't be at the same time
as
> the drag races!!
>
> Rich Rudman
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Manzanita Micro
> 360-297-7383,
> Cell 360-620-6266
> Production shop 360-297-1660
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chip Gribben" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 10:35 PM
> Subject: Re: EVAutoX.com Launched to Serve EV AutoCross Enthusiasts
>
>
> > This is great stuff.
> >
> > What Shawn and Mike are doing couldn't happen at a better time. The
> > EV Challenge, which has been held in the Carolinas for several years
> > now, has been in limbo since it's organizer, Ralph Goodwin passed on
> > last year. Ralph had done a great job with the EV Challenge which
> > brought in up to 20 or more vehicles racing per year and major
> > sponsorship from the local utility there.
> >
> > Also, since Nancy Hazard resigned from the Tour de Sol last year the
> > event has been in limbo. Ollie Perry who is a member of the Eastern
> > Electric Vehicle Association in Pennsylvannia is organizing a
> > substitute EVent planned for June 9 to fill the void left by the Tour
> > de Sol.
> >
> > So there is a need for a group to come along start an AutoCross
> > organization. The 2006 Battery Beach Burnout was a blast. Charles let
> > me run his RAV-4 in it several times. And this past autocross at the
> > 2007 Battery Beach Burnout was a success thanks to Shawn, Matt and
> > Lowell and the gang from the Florida EAA.
> >
> > Mike Harvey and his wife Tracey are hard at work planning an
> > Autocross for the upcoming NEDRA Power of DC in June to go with the
> > NEDRA drag racing event June 3. Our preliminary plans are to run the
> > Autocross Saturday June 2 and the NEDRA drag race June 3. This will
> > take place in the Frederick-Hagerstown area of Maryland.
> >
> > So this is an exciting time for an organization to serve AutoCross
> > Enthusiasts. I imagine we will continue to have both a NEDRA and
> > EVAutoX event held at the same venue in years to come.
> >
> > I'm sure Shawn and Mike will be able to pull off some successful
> > AutoCross EVents
> >
> > Chip Gribben
> > NEDRA
> > http://www.nedra.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Feb 12, 2007, at 12:31 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
> >
> > > From: "Shawn Waggoner, FLEAA" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Date: February 12, 2007 1:19:13 AM EST
> > > To: <[email protected]>
> > > Subject: EVAutoX.com Launched to Serve EV AutoCross Enthusiasts
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Everyone,
> > >
> > > Following the huge success of the autocross event at the recent
> > > Battery
> > > Beach Burnout hosted by the Florida Electric Auto Association in
> > > Jupiter,
> > > Florida this past January, several enthusiasts have formed a special
> > > interest group for EV Autocross Enthusiast everywhere.
> > >
> > > EVAutoX is a group of Electric Vehicle (EV) enthusiasts, racers, and
> > > professionals dedicated to the promotion of Electric Vehicle Autocross
> > > racing activities around the world.
> > >
> > > The mission of EVAutox is to provide a public forum via appropriate
> > > media
> > > for the collaboration required to successfully promote and manage safe
> > > practices for EV Autocross. The objectives of EVAutox are to:
> > >
> > > - provide framework for the development of necessary documentation
> > > and tools
> > > that help promote Autocross in the EV community.
> > > - establish and document related standards and practices for EV
> > > Autocross
> > > racing activities
> > > - provide a framework for repeatable event hosting within the EV
> > > community
> > > - establish relationships with appropriate organizations who can help
> > > further the promotion of EV Autocross in order to incorporate safety
> > > guidelines and standards in additional Autocross venues outside of
> > > the EV
> > > community
> > >
> > > Our goal is to have interested people from around the community
> > > discuss
> > > issues in the forum and present these ideas in the WIKI as a
> > > guideline for
> > > the community at large.
> > >
> > > The website (http://www.EVAutoX.com) is open to everyone and
> > > features News
> > > about the world of EV Autocross, a User Forum to discuss topics
> > > related to
> > > EV Autocross and Collaboration Tools (Wiki) for the development of
> > > documentation for public use in coordinating EV AutoXevents.
> > >
> > > The EVAutoX group and website are co-sponsored by Suncoast Electric
> > > Vehicle
> > > Outfitters (www.suncoast.net) and Harvey Coachworks and EV
> > > (www.hevimotors.com)
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Shawn Waggoner,
> > > Suncoast EV Outfitter/FLEAA
> > >
> > > Mike Harvey
> > > Harvey Coachworks and EV
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't agree that that EVs or hybrids need to make more noise.
Modern cars are too quiet for anyone to depend on hearing alone
to avoid car-pedestrian impacts. A car idling or going downhill can't
be heard over traffic noise or wind noise or an iPod. Walkers
and drivers need to make eye contact before proceeding.
One of the nicer things about an EV is the lack of engine noise. It
would be a shame to spoil that by deliberately adding a noise maker.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kip C. Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 7:02 AM
Subject: Chain Noise Re: Personal Electric Transport
After driving a hybrid vehicle for 6 months, I'd suggest that a little
noise when you travel is a good thing. Allot of people with GOOD hearing
use their ears for vehicular clues when walking across streets and parking
lots. I lost count of how meany people we caught off guard when our ICE
was dormant. The blind don't even have a chance.
I would not be surprised if a noise making device of low volume becomes
mandatory on hybrids and electrics in the future.
- Kip
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
FYI, it looks like Auto-X Magazine has been changed to Grassroots
Motorsports magazine, still in the Daytona area (Ormond) and your buddy Tim
is still there. Here is their website: http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/
Shawn Waggoner
Florida EAA
-----Original Message-----
From: Rich Rudman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 1:11 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: EVAutoX.com Launched to Serve EV AutoCross Enthusiasts
The Grins are the important part!!
Goldie is basicly Auto-X ready.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shawn Waggoner, FLEAA" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 9:06 AM
Subject: RE: EVAutoX.com Launched to Serve EV AutoCross Enthusiasts
> Hey Rich,
>
> Thanks for the info on the magazine, that's a great idea. I will be in
> Daytona next month so maybe I can drop in on them as well.
>
> I think Chip and Mike are going to try to hold an EVAutocross in June at
the
> Power of DC, much like we did at BBB. We try to hold the drag race at one
> time and the autox the next day or at least well spaced out so people have
> time to charge and change any settings on their cars. At the BBB we drag
> race Friday night and run the autox the next afternoon. Having both at the
> event really does help show off the capabilities of the EV, not only on
the
> drag strip, but on the course - power and handling. To watch some of the
> EV's power down the track and then watch them run an autocross certainly
> does change some people's views.
>
> The participation and interest in EV autox has been great. It's a lot of
fun
> to not only enter but watch. Some folks, like some of the school teams,
will
> also have multiple drivers per car which adds to the fun. The grins keep
> coming!
>
> Shawn Waggoner
> Florida EAA
> 561-543-9223
> www.floridaeaa.org
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rich Rudman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 11:35 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: EVAutoX.com Launched to Serve EV AutoCross Enthusiasts
>
> Chip and EVlisters.
>
> You might want to contact Tim Suddard at AUTO-X magazine.
> They are in Daytona Beach Florida.
>
> I was one of the very early advertisers in this magazine when I was
building
> timing systems back in the mid to late 80s.
>
> Maybe it's time EV AutoCross gets some national exposure.
>
> Feel free to use my name I am sure he remebers.
>
> I would not mind doing a Ev Cross, but folks to can't be at the same time
as
> the drag races!!
>
> Rich Rudman
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Manzanita Micro
> 360-297-7383,
> Cell 360-620-6266
> Production shop 360-297-1660
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chip Gribben" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 10:35 PM
> Subject: Re: EVAutoX.com Launched to Serve EV AutoCross Enthusiasts
>
>
> > This is great stuff.
> >
> > What Shawn and Mike are doing couldn't happen at a better time. The
> > EV Challenge, which has been held in the Carolinas for several years
> > now, has been in limbo since it's organizer, Ralph Goodwin passed on
> > last year. Ralph had done a great job with the EV Challenge which
> > brought in up to 20 or more vehicles racing per year and major
> > sponsorship from the local utility there.
> >
> > Also, since Nancy Hazard resigned from the Tour de Sol last year the
> > event has been in limbo. Ollie Perry who is a member of the Eastern
> > Electric Vehicle Association in Pennsylvannia is organizing a
> > substitute EVent planned for June 9 to fill the void left by the Tour
> > de Sol.
> >
> > So there is a need for a group to come along start an AutoCross
> > organization. The 2006 Battery Beach Burnout was a blast. Charles let
> > me run his RAV-4 in it several times. And this past autocross at the
> > 2007 Battery Beach Burnout was a success thanks to Shawn, Matt and
> > Lowell and the gang from the Florida EAA.
> >
> > Mike Harvey and his wife Tracey are hard at work planning an
> > Autocross for the upcoming NEDRA Power of DC in June to go with the
> > NEDRA drag racing event June 3. Our preliminary plans are to run the
> > Autocross Saturday June 2 and the NEDRA drag race June 3. This will
> > take place in the Frederick-Hagerstown area of Maryland.
> >
> > So this is an exciting time for an organization to serve AutoCross
> > Enthusiasts. I imagine we will continue to have both a NEDRA and
> > EVAutoX event held at the same venue in years to come.
> >
> > I'm sure Shawn and Mike will be able to pull off some successful
> > AutoCross EVents
> >
> > Chip Gribben
> > NEDRA
> > http://www.nedra.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Feb 12, 2007, at 12:31 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
> >
> > > From: "Shawn Waggoner, FLEAA" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Date: February 12, 2007 1:19:13 AM EST
> > > To: <[email protected]>
> > > Subject: EVAutoX.com Launched to Serve EV AutoCross Enthusiasts
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Everyone,
> > >
> > > Following the huge success of the autocross event at the recent
> > > Battery
> > > Beach Burnout hosted by the Florida Electric Auto Association in
> > > Jupiter,
> > > Florida this past January, several enthusiasts have formed a special
> > > interest group for EV Autocross Enthusiast everywhere.
> > >
> > > EVAutoX is a group of Electric Vehicle (EV) enthusiasts, racers, and
> > > professionals dedicated to the promotion of Electric Vehicle Autocross
> > > racing activities around the world.
> > >
> > > The mission of EVAutox is to provide a public forum via appropriate
> > > media
> > > for the collaboration required to successfully promote and manage safe
> > > practices for EV Autocross. The objectives of EVAutox are to:
> > >
> > > - provide framework for the development of necessary documentation
> > > and tools
> > > that help promote Autocross in the EV community.
> > > - establish and document related standards and practices for EV
> > > Autocross
> > > racing activities
> > > - provide a framework for repeatable event hosting within the EV
> > > community
> > > - establish relationships with appropriate organizations who can help
> > > further the promotion of EV Autocross in order to incorporate safety
> > > guidelines and standards in additional Autocross venues outside of
> > > the EV
> > > community
> > >
> > > Our goal is to have interested people from around the community
> > > discuss
> > > issues in the forum and present these ideas in the WIKI as a
> > > guideline for
> > > the community at large.
> > >
> > > The website (http://www.EVAutoX.com) is open to everyone and
> > > features News
> > > about the world of EV Autocross, a User Forum to discuss topics
> > > related to
> > > EV Autocross and Collaboration Tools (Wiki) for the development of
> > > documentation for public use in coordinating EV AutoXevents.
> > >
> > > The EVAutoX group and website are co-sponsored by Suncoast Electric
> > > Vehicle
> > > Outfitters (www.suncoast.net) and Harvey Coachworks and EV
> > > (www.hevimotors.com)
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Shawn Waggoner,
> > > Suncoast EV Outfitter/FLEAA
> > >
> > > Mike Harvey
> > > Harvey Coachworks and EV
> >
>
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On 13 Feb 2007 at 17:33, Markus wrote:
> They charge e.g. with the full 5A until the battery reaches a set voltage
> (can be adjusted with a poti if the case is opened), then they switch to
> this pulsing mode, shutting of whenever the battery reaches another set
> voltage.
Actually, this is very similar to the charge control used in cheap Cliplight
"blinky" chargers. It sounds like the Soneil performs the finish charging the
same way as the cheap chargers - cycling on and off for hours, the on pulses
growing ever shorter. The Cliplight chargers I own even have a trimpot inside
to adjust the finish voltage, just as you describe for the Soneil chargers.
Peak finish current can be pretty high with this strategy, but average current
seems to be reasonable. I don't know that there's anything actually >wrong<
with this algorithm, though it doesn't seem to be what the best chargers use.
The difference between the two may be that Cliplight has no real constant
current stage; its current is essentially limited by the resistance of its
wiring.
At least I >hope< the Soneil charger has some kind of "real" current
regulation.
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I noticed that WalMart carries Black and Decker chargers, which are really
Vector, as they own Vector. Everyting identical, I believe, but the name.
Dave
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We recognize the car from the photos. It was built with one of our
Voltsrabbit Kits, and lived in Santa Cruz for a while. In the
original kit, there is a check valve between the vacuum pump and the
reservoir. The pump is a Thomas pump. We haven't had any reports of
problems with the pumps themselves. The way I would troubleshoot the
system is start by placing a vacuum gauge at the output side of the
brass tee between the reservoir and the factory power brake
unit. Start it up and see if it will hold vacuum. If that holds,
reconnect the power brake unit, and put the vacuum gauge on the tee
that feeds the fresh air vent vacuum motor. Start the pump and see
if that holds vacuum. If it holds vacuum, try a hand pump vacuum
pump connected to the fresh air hose and pull a vacuum with the hand
held pump. There could be a leak somewhere in the fresh air vacuum system.
It's an old car, the plastic and rubber in the fresh air control
system might have deteriorated. The factory service manual should
show you routing of vacuum lines and location of components in the system.
Mike Brown
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
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Wow! This is fantastic! Go to Google videos and search for "retro
encabulator". It's a 2 minute video. Man, we have GOT to have these
for our cars! Let's get together a group buy!
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
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Basically it depends whether YOU want to be aware of it and act accordingly
when pedestrians don't notice you. When I had my Prius just a couple weeks,
I drove into a parking lot where two women just stepped outside, talking to
each other. I followed them at 10 ft distance for several car lengths before
one of them noticed something and looked behind her, then was very surprised
to see a car and apologized for walking in my path (which they had
already done for some time). I was just enjoying the 'grin' of the electric
mode of my hybrid.
Nevertheless, it is a concern that a blind pedestrian can stepp off the curb
without knowing you are there, but it should not be a concern as long as YOU
are paying attention, because the blind must signal before crossing.
The fact that blind (and other pedestrians) must duck back on the curb has
another reason, it is true that they are helped by motor sound, especially
when someone is closing in fast with increasing revs and blasting by them
while they are waiting at the intersection.... (If you think about who is
wrong, you know the cause of this problem, but it does not help to be in the
right when you are dead and pedestrians lose the battle every time.)
Back to the noise issue - tires make noise, but not much at low speed.
Motors, gears, diff, sometimes the controller - they all make noise, but not
much at low speed. I think that the concern is mainly the surprise of the EV
sneaking up on you, then it is that the danger is so large. People don't
like surprises in traffic. But blind are accustomed to surprises and foreign
objects in their way, they need to discover them and that's why they wave a
cane around. They may hit a car if they don't hear it, but a much bigger
problem is the people who
stop at the _second_ line in a crosswalk of an intersection, so the blind
must choose between walking into the traffic in the intersection, squeezing
by the car with the risk of it pulling up accidentally or moving around,
behind the car. I have heard of blind who continue to wave their cane (and
bang the car) until it moves out of their right of way. This shows how
aggressive they need to become to even get their lawful place on the street,
let alone whether people will stop in time when they wave their cane to
cross the street.
Cor.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom Shay
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 10:20 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Chain Noise Re: Personal Electric Transport
I don't agree that that EVs or hybrids need to make more noise.
Modern cars are too quiet for anyone to depend on hearing alone to avoid
car-pedestrian impacts. A car idling or going downhill can't be heard over
traffic noise or wind noise or an iPod. Walkers and drivers need to make
eye contact before proceeding.
One of the nicer things about an EV is the lack of engine noise. It would
be a shame to spoil that by deliberately adding a noise maker.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kip C. Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 7:02 AM
Subject: Chain Noise Re: Personal Electric Transport
> After driving a hybrid vehicle for 6 months, I'd suggest that a little
> noise when you travel is a good thing. Allot of people with GOOD hearing
> use their ears for vehicular clues when walking across streets and parking
> lots. I lost count of how meany people we caught off guard when our ICE
> was dormant. The blind don't even have a chance.
>
> I would not be surprised if a noise making device of low volume becomes
> mandatory on hybrids and electrics in the future.
>
> - Kip
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Here is a GE datasheet of one particular instance of the Turbo version:
http://www.floobydust.com/turbo-encabulator/ge_turbo-encabulator.pdf
Why wait until end of March to post these things?
Cor.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Electro Automotive
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 9:44 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Fabulous New Energy Source for EVs!
Wow! This is fantastic! Go to Google videos and search for "retro
encabulator". It's a 2 minute video. Man, we have GOT to have these for
our cars! Let's get together a group buy!
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Electric Car Conversion Kits *
Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
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I'll assume you mean 2 * 10^8 = 200,000,000 revs.
Since a wheel diameter is usually about two feet,
this would mean 250,000 miles in 9 years.
Not very likely with an EV, unless you have either
fast recharge or a very long range, as you need to
drive 76 miles every single day to make this distance
and never go on vacation break.
Note that for most trips, at least half the time
you are standing still or moving very slow due to
traffic lights, stop signs or just simple traffic
conditions.
I agree that wear and tear (shocks, vibration,
acceleration, regen braking) can be hard on
axles - my first car was known for occasionally
losing a driveshaft due to the rubber block
wearing out that held the spline.
Cor.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of thomas ward
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 12:14 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Speaking of Hybrids
Lee,
Have you considered epoxy bonding the tubular axles to the sleeved joints
Roland was talking about (or even
brazing) rather than welding?
1000rpm is nearly 2e8 cycles after 9 years at 1 hour per day.
Doesn't take a huge stress to cause fatigue cracks with this number of
cycles, especially if the weld has defects, which is likely.
Also I guess you will want to design to minimum weight which tends to mean
high stress, high stress and 2e8 cycles next to a weld is likely to crack.
High stress and 2e8 cycles next to a bonded or brazed connection is much
less likely to crack.
--- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> From: Roland Wiench
> >Hello Lee,
> >
> >Some pipes have a internal weld bead and they may
> not slide on tight. I was
> >just at my machine shop and pick up a seamless
> tubing that many of these
> >shops stock. These tubes should be able to fit you
> shafts like a glove.
> >They are normally size about 0.002 over or under
> for a good fit.
>
> Thanks, Roland. I'm expecting we'll have to machine the outside of the
> axles to be perfectly round. The tubing will be thick walled; probably
> something like 1/4". Given the way these things usually go, we'll
> probably have to accept a tube that's too small and machine it out to
> match whatever the axles require.
>
> The fun comes in welding them together so it won't break at the welds.
> A 9" motor, Zilla controller, and 5.14:1 rear end will be able to make
> some serious torque! We may need to depend on skinny tires to spin so
> it won't break something. Present plan is to use 24" dia. 14" wheels
> from the Toyota Prius (175/65R14, Bridgestone Potenza RE92, extra load
> rating, low rolling resistance).
> --
> Lee Hart
>
>
___________________________________________________________
The all-new Yahoo! Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from
your Internet provider. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
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I have a few of them, they're probably better for flooded or gel batteries.
They seem to bring the sg of my flooded batteries back up to the correct
levels, but they definitely won't recharge the Odyssey battery I tried charging
with it. It simply doesn't raise the voltage enough to finish charge it. After
a "full" charge with the vector the voltage was only at 12.6 volts so I had to
manually finish the charge with my special jumper cables and PFC30 in my
Saturn. I still don't know how the charger somehow magically decided what kind
of battery you have hooked to it. The display does show you how many amps the
charger is flowing however, which is nice.
I do see they did change the clamp design finally. The ones they had before
were short and had a heck of a lot of tension on them and of the two chargers I
had only one of the four clamps is still intact, the other three fractured at
exactly the same point.
One other selling point is they will automatically turn themselves back on so
you can leave one hooked up to a battery in storage and they will turn back on
as needed.
Rick
A friend asked me what I thought of vector chargers, and I need a new
charger for manually chargeing 1 AGM at a go. I thought I would get the
lists opinion.
like these
http://www.battery-rechargeable-charger.com/auto-vector-car-battery-charger-products.html
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