EV Digest 6412
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Why I was looking for the 12 V / 5 A "isolated" charger for AGMs
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: A/C Motor voltage?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Speaking of Hybrids
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Looking for a message in the archive and I can't find it
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Soneil Chargers
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Vacuum pump running constantly
by "Deanne Mott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Heaven forbid but if a Rav4 EV was totaled?
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) HV 3Ph AC to get round 9Ah NiMH limit?
by "brougham Baker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Fabulous New Energy Source for EVs!
by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Fabulous New Energy Source for EVs!
by "Doug McKee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Left Coast Conversions
by Marvin Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Vector chargers
by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: HV 3Ph AC to get round 9Ah NiMH limit?
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Fabulous New Energy Source for EVs!
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: White Zombie History
by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Fabulous New Energy Source for EVs!
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Chain Noise Re: Personal Electric Transport
by Matthew Milliron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Fabulous New Energy Source for EVs!
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Soneil Chargers
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: EVAutoX.com Launched to Serve EV AutoCross Enthusiasts
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: Fabulous New Energy Source for EVs!
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Fw: Advanced Automotive Battery and Ultracapacitor Industry Report
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: Soneil Chargers
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Fabulous New Energy Source for EVs!
by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Steve Powers wrote:
I use the BC-20 to get to around 102v and then individually charge
them with a 2 A trickle charge to get to 104.8 V. It takes way too
long, and I can only do 1 at a time.
I thought about putting Lee's shunt regulators on them and turning
up the BC-20 a little. Will that really protect them from overcharge?
I suggest setting the BC-20 for an end-of-charge voltage of about
2.5v/cell. For a 96v pack of AGMs, that's about 120v.
PS: You said you had Deka batteries; are you *sure* they are AGMs? I
think they also make gel cells. You do *not* want to charge gels this high!
Add my zener lamp regulators across each battery.
Add a timer to turn off the BC-20 after a set time. I like the
Intermatic mechanical timers that you can set for 0-12 hours with a
knob; they count down and turn off ($15-$20).
Next time you charge, watch the lamps on the regulators. When the first
one comes on, set the timer to only run another hour or so. If the pack
is out of balance, you'll probably find that after an hour, only a few
lamps are on.
Do the same thing for the next few charge cycles. Each time, you'll find
that more lamps will be on after that final 1 hour of charging, as the
batteries get pushed closer to balance. After a while, the last lamp
should just be starting to light at the end.
If you have a fairly consistent driving cycle (say 10 amphours/day),
you'll find you can set the timer for a specific time (like 5 hours)
right at the beginning, and will automatically get that 1 hour extra
charging time after the regulators light up.
If your cycle isn't that consistent, you'll have to figure out by trial
and error how much charge time to select for each depth of discharge.
You can automate this process by adding a light sensor and high/low
relay as shown in the other email I sent.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike G. wrote:
a contact at the motor controllers design facility... mentioned
to use an 80 volt controller with a lower voltage motor to help
with the bemf issues.
80 volt AC motor controllers are now being built for fork lifts and the
like. They might work for an on-the-road EV. I think someone was trying
one; does anyone recall who it was?
If I use a 36 volt A/C motor on an 80 volt invertor do you think I
could damage the motor? Also: How will the torque output of the
motor be affected with the different voltage?
As for DC motors, the nameplate rating of an AC motor is just one
suggested operating point. There are many other operating points that
can work just as well, or even better.
For an AC motor, frequency determines its speed. If the nameplate rating
is 3600 rpm at 60 Hz, then it runs equally well at 3000 rpm at 50 Hz,
7200 rpm at 120 Hz, etc.
Voltage is closely tied to frequency. The nameplate tells you the
maximum voltage you can apply *at that frequency* (though there is a
10-20% safety factor to allow for high line voltage). But this maximum
voltage goes up or down with frequency. If the motor is rated 120 vac at
60 Hz, then it is 100 vac at 50 Hz, 240 vac at 120 Hz, etc.
The current is defined by the wire size, and is independent of voltage,
frequency and rpm (except that if there is an internal cooling fan, you
can run a little more current at high rpm than at low rpm). Suppose the
motor has an external cooling fan; if the nameplate says "36 vac, 100
amps, 60 Hz", then you can apply 72vac and load it until it draws 100
amps, and it will still run fine, no hotter than it would have at 36v.
Note that the horsepower changes as you change voltage and frequency.
Torque is proportional to current. Speed is proportional to frequency.
100 amps at 72v and 120 Hz produces *twice* the horsepower, because you
have the same torque at double the speed.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
thomas ward wrote [lots more good advice]:
Thanks again, Thomas. I'm interested in trying your idea to use a
composite tube and epoxy to connect the cut ends of the axles. If it
works, it could be a better solution than new custom axles ($300+ each)
or the machining required to put new splines on the cut end (the
opposite end's CV joint doesn't come off; which complicates things).
Here's my EE's naive take on this ME problem.
A composite torque tube would be wound like a toilet paper tube; with
fibers at a 45 deg. angle, 2 or more layers spiraling in opposite
directions.
The adhesive to attach it to the steel would be challenging. The steel
shaft would "wind up" under torque, so the composite tube would need to
have the same torque stiffness, or the adhesive joint between them would
"peel away" from one end to the other.
It would probably be easier to use a steel tube, since it could be more
easily matched to the stiffness of the existing steel axle.
I don't know what we'd use for the adhesive between the two. I imagine
the auto industry has inspired dozens of candidates, but adhesives are
not my specialty.
So, my thought is to do some testing. Buy some 3/8" long extensions for
a socket wrench; they should be hardened similar to the axle. Measure
their stress-strain (what torque for what deflection) to failure. Cut
one, weld it, and test again. Cut one, glue it with a steel tube, and
test again. Also try brazing it with a steel tube, and epoxying it with
a composite fiberglass tube. See what the results are!
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve Powers wrote:
I am looking for the message that Lee wrote describing his battery
shunts. Can someone re-post it?
Not sure which one you need. I've written (too) many on the subject. I
realize how hard the archives are to search. Here's the most complete
post I wrote on them. Note that it is for an 8v battery: a 12v version
uses one #PR2, one 1N5341B and one 1N5342B zener.
Lee Hart wrote on 2/26/03:
Here is a design I have been playing with for about a year. I have two
working systems installed, and while not as aggressive as a full-blown
BMS, it does most of the job and at very low cost.
Battery regulators
------------------
Here is the wiring diagram of the battery regulators (view with a fixed
width font):
Battery -
5/16" 6 gauge
ring terminal
______________
| \ __ \
_______________|/|__\ / \ |
Battery + | |\| / \__/ |
5/16" 6 gauge ____|__ | __|____ |_____/________/
ring terminal / | |_|_| | \
______________ \____|__| |__|____/ zener diode
/ __ / | | | | | 1N5338B
| / \ /__|/|_____________|_____| 5.1v 5w
| \__/ \ |\|
\________\_____| 2 lamps in parallel
each #PR2
zener diode 2.38v 0.5a
1N5338B
5.1v 5w
Parts list (per battery):
2 - heavy duty copper 5/16" ring terminal, 6 gauge wire (Waytek 36472)
2 - zener diode 1N5338B 5.1v 5watt (Allied 568-7257)
2 - PR2 flashlight bulb, 2.38v 0.5a (Mouser 606-PR2)
1. Drill a 1/16" hole in each ring terminal.
2. Poke the zener's lead wire thru the hole, and position the body
of the zener inside ring terminal where the wire normally goes.
Note that the zener's cathode goes to the positive ring terminal,
and the anode goes to the negative ring terminal.
3. Solder the zener's lead to the ring terminal.
4. Solder a short (~6") piece of wire to the remaining lead of each
zener. Use red for the +battery terminal, black for the -battery
terminal.
5. Put a short piece of heat shrink tubing over the exposed wire and
lead of the zener.
6. Fill the space around the zener and ring terminal with a thermally
conductive filler (like epoxy and metal dust).
7. Solder two PR2 flashlight bulbs together, center contact to center
contact.
8. Solder the wire from the +battery terminal to the outside contact
of both lamps.
9. Solder the wire from the -battery terminal to the center contact
of both lamps.
10. Put a piece of heat shrink tubing over the center of the lamp
assembly, fill it with silicone rubber, and shrink it in place.
The ring terminal at each end (and battery terminal to which it is
mounted) serves as the heatsink for the zeners. The resulting assembly
should be waterproof and have no exposed connections in the middle.
These regulators are set up for an 8v battery. They should draw
essentially no current below 10v, 0.25amp at 10.25v, and 1 amp at 10.5v
and above. You can change the zener or add a series diode to adjust the
voltage to some other level if desired.
When a battery voltage exceeds 10.25v, the lamps light up. If you have a
closed battery box (and you should for safety), a light sensitive device
inside the box can detect when the first regulator lights.
Charge Current Limiter
----------------------
One simple way to force a charger to limit its output current is to put
some resistance in series with its output. A light bulb is a good way to
do this, because it acts like a crude constant-current source. The
current only changes about 2:1 for a 10:1 change in voltage. For
example, an ordinary 120vac 150w light bulb draws 150w / 120v = 1.25
amps at 120v, and about half this or 0.625 amps at 12v.
Wiring diagram:
lamp
120v 150w
__
__/ \__
| \__/ |
| |
charger+__________|___||/__|__________battery+
COM1 /|| NC1
______
hot________| |
| |____
120 | | _| relay
vac | | _| 120vac
| |____| coil
neutral____| |
|______|
children's "night light"
(turns light on in darkness)
Parts list:
1 - 120v 150 watt light bulb and socket
(choose wattage for desired limiting current)
1 - relay, SPDT contacts to match charger max amps and volts,
120vac coil (for example, Potter & Brumfield T92 series, DPDT
30a 240vac contacts, 120vac coil, Mouser 655-T92P11A22-120, $10.50)
1 - children's night light with photocell that turns it off when it
senses light. Replace its lamp with the relay coil
Locate the night light inside the battery box where its photocell gets
exposed to light from any of the battery sensors. When no light is
detected, the relay coil is off, so its normally-closed contacts short
the light bulb and the charger delivers full power to the batteries.
When the first battery regulator lights, it pulls in the relay, which
opens the contacts and puts the light bulb in series with the charger,
limiting its current.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Darryl McMahon wrote:
my Kill-a-Watt P3 says the 12 chargers combined on my 914 are
drawing 0 (zero) watts for many minutes at a time, once the batteries
are charged.
What does it show for KWH (kilowatt hours used), accumulated over (say)
24 hours? This should capture the total amount of energy being put into
a fully charged pack.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was pretty sure I'd seen the car on your website :-)
When we get some decent weather here we'll debug and post what we find.
Thanks for all the help!
On 2/13/07, Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
We recognize the car from the photos. It was built with one of our
Voltsrabbit Kits, and lived in Santa Cruz for a while. In the
original kit, there is a check valve between the vacuum pump and the
reservoir. The pump is a Thomas pump. We haven't had any reports of
problems with the pumps themselves. The way I would troubleshoot the
system is start by placing a vacuum gauge at the output side of the
brass tee between the reservoir and the factory power brake
unit. Start it up and see if it will hold vacuum. If that holds,
reconnect the power brake unit, and put the vacuum gauge on the tee
that feeds the fresh air vent vacuum motor. Start the pump and see
if that holds vacuum. If it holds vacuum, try a hand pump vacuum
pump connected to the fresh air hose and pull a vacuum with the hand
held pump. There could be a leak somewhere in the fresh air vacuum
system.
It's an old car, the plastic and rubber in the fresh air control
system might have deteriorated. The factory service manual should
show you routing of vacuum lines and location of components in the system.
Mike Brown
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 09:59 AM 13/02/07 -0800, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
Could a stock RAV4 be converted to a Factory EV status by pulling all the EV
parts off a totaled Rav 4ev????? Has anyone done this? .....
G'day Lawrence
AFAIK, the RAV4 EV is a 2 wheel-drive vehicle, on a different sub-assembly
(chassis/floor pan) than the normal RAV4, so it probably wouldn't be a
bolt-in fit, and may be a major task.
Regards
[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm new to this, and haven't seen/found any mention of this elsewhere so I
guess I must be missing something.
I've seen the 9Ah artificial limit on NiMH cells and have read that they
don't like being paralleled at all. So I was thinking, high volt system like
about 360v (300 cell string) At 9Ah cells would give a 3240kWh pack, not a
lot really but how about if the inverter was split so you could have one
string per phase. Is this possible? Is it easy to mod the inverter? This
would give a fairly useable pack of 9720kWh.
I've found some 9Ah Sanyo D size Cells that will do High discharge rates
(their pdf has graphs for over 5C discharge rate). They only have a 100% DoD
chart that doesn't drop till 500 cycles but no charts for lower DoD. A 3
string pack of 300 cells per string would weigh 160 kg for unpacked cells.
Each cell is 34mm in diameter and 59.3mm tall- for 900 cells I make this 0.2
cu ft in size (that seems far too small.
I haven't been able to get a good price though- one small volume supplier
I've found would want £10,728 (~21k USD) so a moot point really.
Brougham
"I'm sick and tired of hearing that 'health and safety' is stopping people
doing worthwhile and enjoyable things. If you're using health and safety to
stop everyday activities, get a life and let others get on with theirs."
Bill Callaghan (Health and Safety Commission chair)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't know where you can get prefabulated amulite anymore. And spurving
bearings are not cheap either. :-(
----- Original Message -----
From: Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 10:49 am
Subject: Fabulous New Energy Source for EVs!
To: [email protected]
> Wow! This is fantastic! Go to Google videos and search for
> "retro
> encabulator". It's a 2 minute video. Man, we have GOT to have
> these
> for our cars! Let's get together a group buy!
>
> Shari Prange
> Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-
> 1989http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since
> 1979
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think the guy from Rockwell deserves an Oscar for delivering that with
a straight face.
Wait a minute.... Isn't he the same guy who announced the new Chevy Volt
for GM?
Doug
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yeah, Gadget's still working on it. Something about a scorned woman with
passwords and account numbers...
(shudder)
It might be on: www.evnut.com
This is Darell Dickey's site, and it has lots of EV info.
Marv
Culver City
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
These look like the ones they sell at Walmart. Since I dropped my pack to 120V
flooded (from 192V AGM) my Vicor DC-DC won't work down to the sag voltage of
the floodeds. For now I am using my Guest 6 amp charger as a DC-DC but its not
quite up to running both headlights and the heater fan. I looked at these
units at Wal-Mart but caught something that concerned me about using it as a
DC-DC. The charge algorithm seemd reasonable for single battery usage but it
appears whenever you apply power you actually have to push a button (or
combination) to make it start charging. This wouldn't do for my dc-dc as I
would have to pop the hood to activate it every time I turned on the truck.
Otherwise I would like to buy one just to see how it charges.
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 4:14 am
Subject: Vector chargers
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
> A friend asked me what I thought of vector chargers, and I need a new
> charger for manually chargeing 1 AGM at a go. I thought I would
> get the
> lists opinion.
>
> like these
> http://www.battery-rechargeable-charger.com/auto-vector-car-
> battery-charger-products.html
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is an interesting idea, though the beauty of feeding a 3-phase inverter
from a single DC source is that
it draws a constant current, even while delivering 3 AC currents, because
the phases are matched.
If you feed each phase separately, you will see a fluctuation in the DC
current and larger fluctuations
in the capacitors for each phase separately than you see with the phases
combined.
one cell is approximately 1/10 ft x 1/10 ft x 1/5 ft so for 900 cells you
get 900 x 1/500 cu ft is about 2 cu ft.
For bulk sales, you should look for bulk prices.
Since NiMH will require a BMS, it should not be a large step to parallel the
strings and make sure the BMS controls the current sharing between the
strings by selectively shutdown or a smart control of the loading
and measuring Ah for each string, then switch or regulate strings to stay
balanced.
Cor.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of brougham Baker
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 12:44 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: HV 3Ph AC to get round 9Ah NiMH limit?
I'm new to this, and haven't seen/found any mention of this elsewhere so I
guess I must be missing something.
I've seen the 9Ah artificial limit on NiMH cells and have read that they
don't like being paralleled at all. So I was thinking, high volt system like
about 360v (300 cell string) At 9Ah cells would give a 3240kWh pack, not a
lot really but how about if the inverter was split so you could have one
string per phase. Is this possible? Is it easy to mod the inverter? This
would give a fairly useable pack of 9720kWh.
I've found some 9Ah Sanyo D size Cells that will do High discharge rates
(their pdf has graphs for over 5C discharge rate). They only have a 100% DoD
chart that doesn't drop till 500 cycles but no charts for lower DoD. A 3
string pack of 300 cells per string would weigh 160 kg for unpacked cells.
Each cell is 34mm in diameter and 59.3mm tall- for 900 cells I make this 0.2
cu ft in size (that seems far too small.
I haven't been able to get a good price though- one small volume supplier
I've found would want £10,728 (~21k USD) so a moot point really.
Brougham
"I'm sick and tired of hearing that 'health and safety' is stopping people
doing worthwhile and enjoyable things. If you're using health and safety to
stop everyday activities, get a life and let others get on with theirs."
Bill Callaghan (Health and Safety Commission chair)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I like the casing material spec of the GE turbo version. Real organic. ;-)
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of MIKE WILLMON
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 1:03 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Fabulous New Energy Source for EVs!
I don't know where you can get prefabulated amulite anymore. And spurving
bearings are not cheap either. :-(
----- Original Message -----
From: Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 10:49 am
Subject: Fabulous New Energy Source for EVs!
To: [email protected]
> Wow! This is fantastic! Go to Google videos and search for "retro
> encabulator". It's a 2 minute video. Man, we have GOT to have these
> for our cars! Let's get together a group buy!
>
> Shari Prange
> Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-
> 1989http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Electric Car
> Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since
> 1979
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I saw this a couple days ago and thought it was just something I missed. I
didn't realize it was a new addition. Very nice. Tracking the weight changes
over the years is interesting.
A question though for John....did the initial 9" housing you used out of the
'57 Ford come with the smaller axle bearings 1.378" I.D., 2.8246" O.D or the
larger 1.5312" I.D., 3.1496" O.D bearings. I'm presuming you had 31 spline
axles. But if you happened to be running the 28 spline axles was it difficult
to shorten them?
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pestka, Dennis J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 4:53 am
Subject: White Zombie History
To: EV Discussion Group <[email protected]>
> Just looked at the new "White Zombie History" link on John Waylands
> Website.
> Fantastic !
> Thanks for all the time spent to put "that" together.
> Really helps you appreciate all the time and engineering that went
> intogetting to where you are today.
>
> Great Job !
>
> Dennis
> Elsberry, MO
>
>
> http://www.plasmaboyracing.com/reviews.php
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Saw this clip more than a YEAR or more ago... Hope no one ran out to
buy Rockwell stock...because of it...
(Attention all Newbaees... Warning this video is a spoof, a joke, a gag,
a yarn, a piece of well crafted techno- humor, probably for one of
Rockwells Board of Director Meetings, or some other such meeting. )
Funny how such things have a way of coming back and making yet another
Turn round the Inter-Net....
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 11:49:18 -0800, you wrote:
>I drove into a parking lot where two women just stepped outside, talking to
>each other. I followed them at 10 ft distance for several car lengths before
>one of them noticed something and looked behind her, then was very surprised
>to see a car and apologized for walking in my path (which they had
>already done for some time). I was just enjoying the 'grin' of the electric
>mode of my hybrid.
Just did this with a Subaru Outback at the mall. It wasn't the
electric car being quiet. It was the pedestrians lack of awareness or
in this town just plain not paying attention. People these days don't
seem to know that in a car vs. ped accident, the car wins! ok, ok, I
will get off of my soapbox.
R. M. Milliron
Jimmy: ...But...Sir? That's a really lame name, Sir.
Boss: We can't all be cool in life Jimmy. Some of
us have to be Subaru drivers.
www.Sheldoncomics.com/strips/sd070128.png
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
PS: This second reference to some PDF files from
Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 11:59:14 -0800
To: [email protected]
Here is a GE datasheet of one particular instance of the Turbo version:
http://www.floobydust.com/turbo-encabulator/ge_turbo-encabulator.pdf
LOCKED UP MY COMPUTER !!! any one else experence that ??
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Correct.
It does not address the issue of chargers left on a battery to "tend" it
when left alone or on a light load for some time, which can discharge it in
weeks/months and where you want it to automatically come on to top it up.
Typical application is in cars/motorcycles that have a lot of phantom loads
from their computers, transceivers, security and entry systems that all use
a little bit, but can draw down a battery in a shorter period than some go
on vacation....
When the charger can be dialed in to maintain a MAX 13.7V then I would not
be too worried to leave them on,
although Lee's zener regs will push the battery back down to 13V with the
usual 6.2 and 6.8V zeners.
In general, simple regs and independent chargers do not play well, better
hook the regs to the charger to tell what to do, if the charger has control
inputs.
Note that my AGMs tend to sit at 13.2V a day after charging them completely
and even after driving 2 miles still are above 13V resting voltage. That's
why I will make my regs come on at 13.7V and bypass 1/2 A as soon as they
are above this voltage by using a power FET + current limiter i.s.o. zener
and lamp.
Regards,
Cor.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of David Roden
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 6:38 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Soneil Chargers
On 13 Feb 2007 at 7:23, Darryl McMahon wrote:
> I guess we could debate what "shutting off" means.
Perhaps. To me it means that when the battery is charged, the charger stops
charging the battery entirely. It doesn't start again unless I invite it to
do so. IMO, this seems like a fairly reasonable description of "off." ;-)
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi Rich,
Thanks for the info. What Mike and I are planning to do for the Power
of DC is hold the AutoCross on Saturday June 2 and the drag race
Sunday June 3.
So spreading the charging across two days shouldn't be too much of an
issue for the competitors.
We have the drag strip reserved for the Mason Dixon Dragway in
Maryland as in years past. Its just nailing down a venue for the
AutoCross but Mike and his wife Tracey are looking into that.
We'll probably look into doing a ScooterCross as well just like Shawn
did at the BBB. So the 2 wheelers can have some fun as well.
I agree with Shawn that having both types of events really shows the
EVs capabilities and running in the AutoCross is pretty fun as well.
A few years ago when the Custom Van movement was popular we used to
race our vans on a slalom course set up on an old airport runway at
the annual Van-In meet. Because we were pretty much racing air-
brushed shoeboxes and sometimes under the influence of a few
Budweisers it wasn't unusual for a van to flip. The goal at the time
was not so much to beat the clock as it was to get your van through
the course in one piece without flipping it.
Chip Gribben
NEDRA
http://www.nedra.com
On Feb 13, 2007, at 3:26 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
From: "Shawn Waggoner, FLEAA" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: February 13, 2007 12:06:56 PM EST
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: EVAutoX.com Launched to Serve EV AutoCross Enthusiasts
Hey Rich,
Thanks for the info on the magazine, that's a great idea. I will be in
Daytona next month so maybe I can drop in on them as well.
I think Chip and Mike are going to try to hold an EVAutocross in
June at the
Power of DC, much like we did at BBB. We try to hold the drag race
at one
time and the autox the next day or at least well spaced out so
people have
time to charge and change any settings on their cars. At the BBB we
drag
race Friday night and run the autox the next afternoon. Having both
at the
event really does help show off the capabilities of the EV, not
only on the
drag strip, but on the course - power and handling. To watch some
of the
EV's power down the track and then watch them run an autocross
certainly
does change some people's views.
The participation and interest in EV autox has been great. It's a
lot of fun
to not only enter but watch. Some folks, like some of the school
teams, will
also have multiple drivers per car which adds to the fun. The grins
keep
coming!
Shawn Waggoner
Florida EAA
561-543-9223
www.floridaeaa.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hmm,
Size is only 77kB
so I think the problem is that it apparently requires Acrobat 7.0
The doc is referenced in a description about this magnificent (cough)
invention,
I presume any patents have already lapsed, because it is from 1962, so the
oil companies will not hold us back to manufacture this crap, errr craft.
http://www.floobydust.com/turbo-encabulator/
Cor.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Steven Lough
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 2:51 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List RCVR
Subject: Fabulous New Energy Source for EVs!
PS: This second reference to some PDF files from Cor van de Water
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 11:59:14 -0800
To: [email protected]
Here is a GE datasheet of one particular instance of the Turbo version:
http://www.floobydust.com/turbo-encabulator/ge_turbo-encabulator.pdf
LOCKED UP MY COMPUTER !!! any one else experence that ??
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 19:16:10 -0500 (EST)
>From: Advanced Automotive Batteries <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> Dear Mr. Hawkins,
>
>Please find below the latest press release from Advanced Automotive Batteries, announcing our new Advanced Automotive Battery and Ultracapacitor Industry Report, to be published in April 2007.
>
>The Report is based on recent onsite interviews with leading technologists and business development executives from 35 key-player companies in the industry. It includesin addition to general technology and industry assessmentsdetailed analyses and forecasts for individual car and battery companies.
>
>Please feel free to contact me with enquiries about the Report.
>
>With kind regards,
>
>Carol Chambers
> Director Business Development
> Advanced Automotive Batteries
> Tel (530) 692 0140
> <http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=h74dn7bab.0.7txen7bab.tm5swxbab.13915&ts=S0227&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.advancedautobat.com%2F2007Report%2Findex.html>www.advancedautobat.com/2007Report/in dex.html
>
>
>PRESS RELEASE
>
> Hybrid Electric Vehicle battery market charged for rapid growth - but which battery?
>
> The market for advanced Hybrid Electric Vehicle (HEV) batteries will double from approximately $600 million this year to $1.2 billion by 2009 and is expected to top $2.0 billion by 2012, according to a new study, "The 2007 Advanced Automotive Battery Industry Report", to be published in April 2007.
>
> Hybrid Electric Vehicles (HEVs) combine an internal combustion engine with an electric motor and a battery in various arrangements. They are now finding commercial acceptance as an effective means of raising fuel efficiency without sacrificing vehicle performance, thus combating global warming, pollution, and dependence on the supply of fossil fuels. A key to identifying the type of HEV that will continue to expand the market is the availability of an affordable, long-life battery. In this regard the study concludes that in the foreseeable future, the HEV market will predominantly continue to consist of charged-on-board designs. Plug-in hybrids, which are charged from an electrical outlet, are unlikely to gain notable market share, in spite of wide publicity about them in the pressdue to the lack of a suitable and affordable battery for this architecture.
>
> The study analyzes the battery requirements set by all major automakers for HEVs. Nickel Metal Hydride (NiMH) is the incumbent technology for these applications due to its proven longevity under heavy usage. However, it has performance limitations at high and low temperatures, and at the OEM cost of $500 to $2,000 per HEV battery pack NiMH batteries are barely affordable to the automakers. Li-ion batteriespopular in portable equipment communication devices ranging from cell phones to laptop computersare under intense development and testing by all major automakers for their potential promise in HEV applications. The study finds that recent reliability problems with Li-ion batteries in portable devices are delaying the entry of this higher- power battery chemistry into the HEV market. However, following extensive system verification tests, Li-ion batteries are still expected to enter the market in 2009, achieve a market penetration rate of 15% by 2012, and grow thereafter.
>
> The study also discusses the plans of the major automakers and their battery suppliers for the commercialization of HEVs and HEV batteries. Toyota, Honda, and Ford, are leading the commercialization of HEVs, but most other major automakers expect to offer Hybrid Electric Vehicles in commercial volume by 2010. Two Japanese battery producers, Panasonic EV Energy and Sanyo, share over 90% of the HEV battery market (currently essentially all NiMH). Both companies are also developing Li-ion battery products for this market where over a dozen additional battery makers from Japan, Korea, and the U.S. are intending to compete. Market leader Panasonic EV Energy, a joint venture between Toyota and Panasonic Batteries, will continue to enjoy over 60% market share for at least three more years while the other developers are establishing their production capabilities.
>
> The 2007 Advanced Automotive Battery Industry Report also points out that several automotive tier- one electrical system suppliers, including European giants Robert Bosch and Continental, U.S.-based Delphi and Cobasys, and Japanese giants Hitachi and Denso are working on integrating battery modules into a total energy-storage system, an area where the average battery manufacturer lacks experience.
>
> To produce this study, Dr. Anderman, President of Advanced Automotive Batteries, a consulting firm that carries out technology and market assessments and organizes an annual industry conference, conducted over 35 site interviews with key players in the industry, including all major automakers, automotive system suppliers, and battery producers on three continents.
>
> For more information and to purchase the report, contact Advanced Automotive Batteries at (530) 692- 0140, or visit the AAB website, <http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?t=h74dn7bab.0.4sp4fybab.tm5swxbab.13915&ts=S0227&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.advancedautobat.com> www.advancedautobat.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David and All,
As I've posted before, I use 16 of the 1212SR models as "modular" chargers
in the RX-7. The reason that these have the same algorithm as the
Cliplight, is because the Soneil engineer that was mentioned in another
post came from Cliplight, as I recall. Also, the voltage is controlled by a
resistor, not a pot, as I recall. They start out humping five amps into the
battery until 14.4 volts, then pulse from 13.8 to 14.4, so the two color
LED starts out orange, then blinks green until full (solid green), making
them "blinky" chargers like the Cliplight. Along with my FrankenLesters for
bulk charging, these chargers are the sliced bread for EV'ers that want to
use AGM's and can't afford a Madman's charger and regs!
BB
>From: "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 13:05:11 -0500
>
>On 13 Feb 2007 at 17:33, Markus wrote:
>
>> They charge e.g. with the full 5A until the battery reaches a set voltage
>> (can be adjusted with a poti if the case is opened), then they switch to
>> this pulsing mode, shutting of whenever the battery reaches another set
>> voltage.
>
>Actually, this is very similar to the charge control used in cheap Cliplight
>"blinky" chargers. It sounds like the Soneil performs the finish charging
>the
>same way as the cheap chargers - cycling on and off for hours, the on pulses
>growing ever shorter. The Cliplight chargers I own even have a trimpot
>inside
>to adjust the finish voltage, just as you describe for the Soneil chargers.
>
>Peak finish current can be pretty high with this strategy, but average
>current
>seems to be reasonable. I don't know that there's anything actually >wrong<
>with this algorithm, though it doesn't seem to be what the best chargers
>use.
>
>The difference between the two may be that Cliplight has no real constant
>current stage; its current is essentially limited by the resistance of its
>wiring.
>At least I >hope< the Soneil charger has some kind of "real" current
>regulation.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Kinda like Big Auto and EV's, eh?
----- Original Message -----
From: Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 1:47 pm
Subject: Fabulous New Energy Source for EVs!
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List RCVR <[email protected]>
> Saw this clip more than a YEAR or more ago... Hope no one ran
> out to
> buy Rockwell stock...because of it...
>
> (Attention all Newbaees... Warning this video is a spoof, a joke,
> a gag,
> a yarn, a piece of well crafted techno- humor, probably for one of
> Rockwells Board of Director Meetings, or some other such meeting. )
>
> Funny how such things have a way of coming back and making yet
> another
> Turn round the Inter-Net....
> --
> Steven S. Lough, Pres.
> Seattle EV Association
> 6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
> Seattle, WA 98115-7230
> Day: 206 850-8535
> Eve: 206 524-1351
> e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> web: http://www.seattleeva.org
>
>
--- End Message ---
