EV Digest 6437
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Battery charger recommendation
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2) Re: EV digest 6436
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
3) Re: Looking for crimp dies for very small ring terminals
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: NiMH Batteries (was Re: Introductions)
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Looking for crimp dies for very small ring terminals
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: EV digest 6434
by "FRED JEANETTE MERTENS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: At what cd (drag coef) and roof size for a van would the drag of
the vehicle be less than the electricity generating rate of pv's on the
roof?
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: NiMH Batteries (was Re: Introductions)
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Looking for crimp dies for very small ring terminals
by "FRED JEANETTE MERTENS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Looking for crimp dies for very small ring terminals
by Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: EV digest 6434
by Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Looking for crimp dies for very small ring terminals
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: At what cd (drag coef) and roof size for a van would the drag
of the vehicle be less than the electricity generating rate of
pv's on the roof?
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: EV digest 6434
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Vexing issue w/ battery/controller.
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Long Skinny Van (was RE: EV digest 6430)
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Living in EV's, Re: EV digest 6436
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I've never had a Zivan so I'll let David speak to the differences. I use a dv /
dt charge algorithm on my DeltaQs. As the batteries get older the voltage
doesn't rise as high but the charger is just watching for the voltage to quit
rising so it works fine. Ok Roger I'm over simplifying ;) My original DeltaQ
had a selection of algorithms that could be selected. When I purchased my
second, they had come up with the USB interface that Roger mentioned so I had
it added to both chargers. It's pretty simple to load in a new one.
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 11:49 PM
Subject: RE: Battery charger recommendation
On 16 Feb 2007 at 22:41, David Hrivnak wrote:
> Do you mind me asking what advantages did you see in
> the Delta-Q over the Zivan chargers?
I'm not Steve, but I'm going to take a guess : reliability and usability.
Zivan chargers are infamous for frequent failures. Their charge algorithms
are also infamous for beating the life out of batteries.
A pity really as Zivans are very reasonably priced, lightweight, isolated
switchmode chargers.
If only Zivan had fitted higher quality components, and made it possible for
users to tweak the charge control themselves. Of course then the price
would have been higher.
Delta-Q chargers are reportedly of higher quality, though I think I recall
reading that they're produced by contract assembly plants in China.
Also, regrettably, the Delta-Q algorithm is not under user control. With
some chargers, when a battery in your pack goes south, you can just remove
it, adjust the charger's finish voltage, and keep driving for a while. Not
so with a Zivan or Delta-Q. Such changes require factory (or perhaps
dealer) intervention.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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On Feb 17, 2007, at 10:01 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
One more I thought of is the R. Q. Riley "Phoenix".
<http://rqriley.com/phx.html>
It's a camper van body that you build on an old VW microbus
chassis. Small and light for travelling, but it opens up when
parked to be roomy enough to live in. Though an old design, it
could be considerably upgraded with what we know today. For
instance, the roof could be solar cells, so you have several times
the area when parked and unfolded.
I think I've seen this one before, and it's a neat idea. A while back
I also came across something a bit more contemporary from an
Australian designer. The firm does a lot of compact ecological
housing and other buildings.
http://www.andrewmaynard.com.au/
Something like his BOB mobile home of the future looks promising.
It's just a concept, not an actual product yet.
http://www.andrewmaynard.com.au/BOB01.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Eric,
I have a crimping tool that has four built in dies, that crimps bare
terminal sizes 26-28, 22-26, 20-22, and 14-18. It does a tuck in crimp on
those bare split barrel terminals, where it rolls over the split into the
wire and then you crimp a insulation crimp which wraps over the wire
insulation.
It also works on solid barrel terminals too which makes a crimp the length
of the barrel as you see with professional type of wire crimps.
I got these about 20 years ago, and I think I got them from either Radio
Shack which I used them on some communication work or NAPA for crimping
those vehicle terminals that slide into those plastic box type connectors.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Poulsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 6:35 PM
Subject: Looking for crimp dies for very small ring terminals
> I have a bunch of 26/24 ga non-insulated ring terminals, but I have no
> bottoming die to crimp them with. I can get by using the 22/18ga crimp
> notch on a pair of cheap crimp/cut/strip tools, but it lacks
> repeatability.
>
> Does anyone know _definitively_ (please, no "this site / store has a
> whole bunch of die types" -- I've searched the sites already) where I
> can get a die set (ideal /paladin style) that will crimp ring terminals
> this small? Alternatively, does anyone know of a die that's not for
> uninsulated ring terminals, but will crimp them properly, or does anyone
> have any suggestions on how to do reliable repeatable crimps?
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The intent of the patent system is to encourage development of
technology not it's restriction.
Political pressure on a company abusiing the system can do wonders.
On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 3:48 pm, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
ANd what exactly do you think congress can do about it? THe whole
point
of Patent law is to protect the patent holder, they are allowed to do
just
about anything they want with the patent, including NOT building it.
This has been done numerous times in the past. SOmeone will patent
something that threatens a big company, so they buy the patent and sit
on
it.
It's called capitalism and its how our country works.
I'd love to see the lawsuit and the licensing agreement.
If it specifically restricts electric vehicles I'd like to send it to
some congress members and activists.
On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 2:24 pm, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
Right but has the EAA ever tried to enter into
discussions with Chevron over releasing the patent
rights?
They won't (they're an Oil company remember) In fact they sued (and
won)
Panasonic when Panasonic tried making EV size NiMH because it violated
their license with Cobasys which SPECIFICALLY states that they can NOT
make EV size batteries. In fact I believe the words Electric Vehicle
are
in the licensing agreement.
Mark
--- Robert Lemke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Because Chevron Oil now owns the patent rights for
NiMH batteries of the size of 10 a/hr and larger.
Bob
Mark Freidberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Why can't the EAA hire some fundraiser(s), rake in
the
cash, initialize an EV-size NIMH production
facility,
and sell to members at an affordable price? How hard
can it be?
Mark
--- Lee Hart wrote:
> Ian Hooper wrote:
> > Interesting about the Cobasys/Chevron
> relationship, why am I not
> > surprised!?
> >
> > There are a few Chinese manufacturers of large
> capacity NiMHs, e.g
> > http://nthaiyang.en.alibaba.com/. They are
pretty
> expensive though, I
> > got quoted US$153ea for 1.2V, 80Ah (600A peak
> discharge) cells, so it's
> > heading towards $20K for a ~10kWh pack! Ouch.
> >
> > The option I'm currently looking at are Sub-Cs,
> due to their high
> > discharge rate (>10C). Manufacturer direct,
> they're about US$1.50 each
> > for 1.2v 3.5Ah, I'll need about 2500 of them for
> 10kWh. So twice the
> > price of the best lead acid, but half the weight
> and hopefully longer
> > cycle life. Using that many individual cells
seems
> silly, but it has
> > been done before, e.g the Tesla Roadster, or
White
> Lightning
>
> Lots of people are trying to use hundreds to
> thousands of small cells
> to make an EV sized battery pack. There are lots
of
> problems! Frankly,
> I'm pessimistic -- NO ONE has any long-term
> experience yet. I think it
> works in the short term, but will prove
impractical
> in the long run (too
> expensive, too unreliable). But, time will tell!
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
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If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
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--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do
whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm crimping onto TO-220 leads (solid) -- would it work for that?
Radio Shack isn't what it was 20 years ago; a search of their website
doesn't show anything that would work that I haven't already tried. The
Napa website didn't have much, either.
Roland Wiench wrote:
Hello Eric,
I have a crimping tool that has four built in dies, that crimps bare
terminal sizes 26-28, 22-26, 20-22, and 14-18. It does a tuck in crimp on
those bare split barrel terminals, where it rolls over the split into the
wire and then you crimp a insulation crimp which wraps over the wire
insulation.
It also works on solid barrel terminals too which makes a crimp the length
of the barrel as you see with professional type of wire crimps.
I got these about 20 years ago, and I think I got them from either Radio
Shack which I used them on some communication work or NAPA for crimping
those vehicle terminals that slide into those plastic box type connectors.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Poulsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 6:35 PM
Subject: Looking for crimp dies for very small ring terminals
I have a bunch of 26/24 ga non-insulated ring terminals, but I have no
bottoming die to crimp them with. I can get by using the 22/18ga crimp
notch on a pair of cheap crimp/cut/strip tools, but it lacks
repeatability.
Does anyone know _definitively_ (please, no "this site / store has a
whole bunch of die types" -- I've searched the sites already) where I
can get a die set (ideal /paladin style) that will crimp ring terminals
this small? Alternatively, does anyone know of a die that's not for
uninsulated ring terminals, but will crimp them properly, or does anyone
have any suggestions on how to do reliable repeatable crimps?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
ok think out side the BOX why not that 1 ton trouck cut off the steel where u
can replace with alum. then get a fibreglass or composite trailer take the BOX
off it and put on the reworked frame now u have a large light 2 person vechicle
cut out the rear window and part of the roof then shape the roof *like* a 18
wheel truck cab over sleeper and u have a little more room put ur batteries
ubder the box between the frame to help the center of gravity now it is more
stable with more room and by rounding off the frount from left to right and
sloping it from the windshield back to the top of the trailer box it helps but
does not cure the frount drag . now extend the rework fram so that u can tapper
from the sides back in a semi tear drop shape and u have less drag and 3-4 ft
more room .now for weight reasons you will need to go to ac drive with
regenerative braking , use photovoltice film on the sides and top and u have
some solar power nova technologies @ http://pesn!
.com/radio/free_energy_now<http://pesn.com/radio/free_energy_now> they
have a project to use exist small scale power production ideas combining them
togather ,scaling them up into usable sizes to contribute power to an ev so
that more of the ev power comes from these smaller power producers!!!!! then
get a small wind turbine (1 kw) that you can easly put up take down so when you
get to a stopping place you can raise the generator into the wind when you stop
and take it down when you move ,, now you are inventing you own auto from
parts bits and pieces !! not a conversion but yet still converting what you
can find . you said that you have some artistic background so you will have to
make the design low into something that looks good . this should help you get
out of the box . csilver_ if this help I have some more brainstorming that I
am willing to do for you in the energy field that is not part of this forum
contact me directly if interested
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter VanDerWal<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 6:17 PM
Subject: Re: EV digest 6434
Ok then, let's start thinking outside the box.
Firsth thing you need to do is start thinking smaller. Pehaps something
like an Ford Escort station wagon. Fill the back up with camping gear
(tents etc.), Yeah it will take a bit longer to setup camp, but are you in
a hurry? Worse case you can fold down the rear seat and sleep in the
back.
Better yet, build a small vehicle, light weight with good enough storage.
Figure out the minimal amount of gear you need to take and make the
vehicle just big eough to carry that and as many batteries as you can
stuff in it.
Perhaps start with the frame from a late 80's 1 ton toyota pickup (these
were actually quite small. If you build a low profile, light weight body,
this will allow you to carry 1 ton of batteries.
That should get you 120-150 miles range as long as you don't drive to
fast. Farther if you drive at say 30 mph.
If you are recharging from solar, then you won't be able to drive that far
every day, parhaps once a week.
Or maybe go even smaller, and carry less gear. Think backpacking. Build
something like this:
http://www.blueskydsn.com/BugE_Concept.html<http://www.blueskydsn.com/BugE_Concept.html>
but a bit bigger so you can carry perhaps 10-12 bateries instead of only
4, and your dogs of course.
This is close to your budget too.
How athletic are you? Even a couch potato can produce 70-100 watts while
pedaling. Make a pedal powered generator and pedal it while writing or
possibly even while driving. The nice thing about this is you can produce
power even at night.
3 hours of pedaling should easily provide you with 200-300 watts, twice
that if you are in excellent shape. That's enough to charge about one
battery. At 120W solar panel can produce at least that much in a day if
you have good sunlight.
Your first question was why are EVs so small, the reason is it costs too
much to make them big. If you don't have a lot of money, think small.
> Cool, this is very helpful. I'm now looking to figure out how to
> either find or build a vehicle with the greatest ratio between weight
> and volume (lightest weight but biggest size) while keeping it
> structurally sound and road worthy. This is both an environmental and
> a utilitarian endeavor for me, as well as freedom; it's not about
> showing off anything or trying to make the neighbors jealous, but
> given my visual background in art and design, I will make sure it's
> aesthetically pleasing when I get done with it; I'm just not willing
> to pay what it costs to buy something ready-made.
>
>
> On Feb 17, 2007, at 3:50 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
>
>> This means that you would need 57.5/.6 or 96 of these batteries. They
>> weigh 70 pounds apiece, so that's 6720 pounds of batteries. The
>> Sprinter can't carry that much weight!
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Feb 17, 2007, at 11:52 AM, Steve Condie wrote:
Well, there are a lot of erroneous assumptions in this analysis, as
I'm sure regulars here will have spotted.
Corrections gratefully accepted.
Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: OK, let's see if I've got
these calculations down correctly.
So to get an idea of how many watts are required to move a given
vehicle, look at the hp requirement to move the vehicle and multiply by
746.
<Steve wrote> Uh - no. This is true in theory, but not in practice.
The standard engine 2005 Dodge Sprinter has a 154 hp engine, .
Therefore, an EV version of the Sprinter that has the same performance
as the gas version would need a powerplant that can produce 115
kilowatts.
Not really. ICE's are "peaky". An electric motor can achieve
"the same performance" in practice with a lower rating, because
of greater torque and a flatter power curve.
That's true. I was thinking mainly of "top speed", not the total
performance envelope of the car. I did not choose my words well.
My understanding is that ICE horsepower is measured at the peak output
of the motor, and electric motor horsepower is measured at the
continuous runtime output, but they're the same horsepowers, both equal
to 746 watts.
Well, I don't know where "the Sprinter's top speed" came from,
but maintaining speed at 65 or 70 mph will take less than 115Kw
- probably less than half that much.
The Sprinter's top speed is the maximum velocity it can achieve. Not
that hard to understand, I hope :) The idea is that the Sprinter will
reach its top speed (whatever it is) with its ICE powerplant at 154 hp
running flat-out. This should be the same speed as can be reached by a
Sprinter with an electric drive producing 115 Kw.
Practical experience (the late Red Beastie -
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/037.html ) has shown that freeway
speed in an unaerodynamic vehicle can be maintained for an hour
with less than half that weight in batteries.
You're talking about freeway speed, not the top speed of the Sprinter,
which is what I'm talking about.
Now if we back away from "top speed" as the design point to "acceptable
performance", everything gets better. But I don't have the experience
to come up with better numbers.
Next time I'll try to make sure I do a better job explaining that this
is a "worst case" scenario instead of something reasonable.
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
http://www.gdunge.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I remember that court ruling. I haven't looked at the patent though.
(I used to have kodak instant slides. They were great!)
On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 5:22 pm, Lee Hart wrote:
From: GWMobile
This argument that info is hidden is common but it simply isn't true.
Patents must be defended therefore they are as explicit as possible
while being as broad as possible - not mutually exclusive.
I'll give you an example. Edwin Land of Polaroid was a genius at
writing patents. The patent for the SX70 instant film meticulously
listed every ingredient, plus a lot that weren't necessary. It listed
the amounts of each ingredient, but as ranges; 2-5% of this, 10-30% of
that, etc. It listed the processing steps needed, but in a "one or more
of the following..." manner.
Eastman Kodak spent years trying to make film from the instructions in
that patent. They eventually gave up, and invented their own version of
instant film. When it came out, Polaroid sued them for patent
infringement. After many expensive court battles, Polaroid won. They
were able to convince the judge that buried among the millions of
permutations of the descriptions in that patent, the method Kodak used
could be inferred. Kodak had to pay damages, and recalled and destroyed
millions of dollars worth of their instant camera products.
--
Lee Hart
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
try looking up t&b stake-on pliers kline tools also has a crimper that works
very well . I cannot remember if t&b is owned by cooper group tools or not
sorry
----- Original Message -----
From: Eric Poulsen<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 11:03 PM
Subject: Re: Looking for crimp dies for very small ring terminals
I'm crimping onto TO-220 leads (solid) -- would it work for that?
Radio Shack isn't what it was 20 years ago; a search of their website
doesn't show anything that would work that I haven't already tried. The
Napa website didn't have much, either.
Roland Wiench wrote:
> Hello Eric,
>
> I have a crimping tool that has four built in dies, that crimps bare
> terminal sizes 26-28, 22-26, 20-22, and 14-18. It does a tuck in crimp on
> those bare split barrel terminals, where it rolls over the split into the
> wire and then you crimp a insulation crimp which wraps over the wire
> insulation.
>
>
>
> It also works on solid barrel terminals too which makes a crimp the length
> of the barrel as you see with professional type of wire crimps.
>
> I got these about 20 years ago, and I think I got them from either Radio
> Shack which I used them on some communication work or NAPA for crimping
> those vehicle terminals that slide into those plastic box type connectors.
>
> Roland
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Eric Poulsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
> To: <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
> Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 6:35 PM
> Subject: Looking for crimp dies for very small ring terminals
>
>
>
>> I have a bunch of 26/24 ga non-insulated ring terminals, but I have no
>> bottoming die to crimp them with. I can get by using the 22/18ga crimp
>> notch on a pair of cheap crimp/cut/strip tools, but it lacks
>> repeatability.
>>
>> Does anyone know _definitively_ (please, no "this site / store has a
>> whole bunch of die types" -- I've searched the sites already) where I
>> can get a die set (ideal /paladin style) that will crimp ring terminals
>> this small? Alternatively, does anyone know of a die that's not for
>> uninsulated ring terminals, but will crimp them properly, or does anyone
>> have any suggestions on how to do reliable repeatable crimps?
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.waytekwire.com/
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
---------------------------------------------------
See the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
Check the EVDL Archives: http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive
Check out the EV FAQ: www.evparts.com/faq
Check out the EV Photo Album: www.evalbum.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Roland Wiench
Sent: February 17, 2007 8:39 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Looking for crimp dies for very small ring terminals
Hello Eric,
I have a crimping tool that has four built in dies, that crimps bare
terminal sizes 26-28, 22-26, 20-22, and 14-18. It does a tuck in crimp on
those bare split barrel terminals, where it rolls over the split into the
wire and then you crimp a insulation crimp which wraps over the wire
insulation.
It also works on solid barrel terminals too which makes a crimp the length
of the barrel as you see with professional type of wire crimps.
I got these about 20 years ago, and I think I got them from either Radio
Shack which I used them on some communication work or NAPA for crimping
those vehicle terminals that slide into those plastic box type connectors.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Poulsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 6:35 PM
Subject: Looking for crimp dies for very small ring terminals
> I have a bunch of 26/24 ga non-insulated ring terminals, but I have no
> bottoming die to crimp them with. I can get by using the 22/18ga crimp
> notch on a pair of cheap crimp/cut/strip tools, but it lacks
> repeatability.
>
> Does anyone know _definitively_ (please, no "this site / store has a
> whole bunch of die types" -- I've searched the sites already) where I
> can get a die set (ideal /paladin style) that will crimp ring terminals
> this small? Alternatively, does anyone know of a die that's not for
> uninsulated ring terminals, but will crimp them properly, or does anyone
> have any suggestions on how to do reliable repeatable crimps?
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Use aerospace materials. Check out http://www.teklam.com/ - lightweight
aluminum or composite honeycomb panels. Great for a cabin for a motor home.
You can even build a frame out of it - check out the chassis pictures of the
mosler http://www.moslerauto.com/
Little pricey though $500-1000 per sheet.
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
---------------------------------------------------
See the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
Check the EVDL Archives: http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive
Check out the EV FAQ: www.evparts.com/faq
Check out the EV Photo Album: www.evalbum.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of FRED JEANETTE MERTENS
Sent: February 17, 2007 9:12 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: EV digest 6434
ok think out side the BOX why not that 1 ton trouck cut off the steel
where u can replace with alum. then get a fibreglass or composite trailer
take the BOX off it and put on the reworked frame now u have a large light 2
person vechicle cut out the rear window and part of the roof then shape
the roof *like* a 18 wheel truck cab over sleeper and u have a little more
room put ur batteries ubder the box between the frame to help the center of
gravity now it is more stable with more room and by rounding off the frount
from left to right and sloping it from the windshield back to the top of the
trailer box it helps but does not cure the frount drag . now extend the
rework fram so that u can tapper from the sides back in a semi tear drop
shape and u have less drag and 3-4 ft more room .now for weight reasons you
will need to go to ac drive with regenerative braking , use photovoltice
film on the sides and top and u have some solar power nova technologies @
http://pesn!
.com/radio/free_energy_now<http://pesn.com/radio/free_energy_now> they
have a project to use exist small scale power production ideas combining
them togather ,scaling them up into usable sizes to contribute power to an
ev so that more of the ev power comes from these smaller power
producers!!!!! then get a small wind turbine (1 kw) that you can easly put
up take down so when you get to a stopping place you can raise the generator
into the wind when you stop and take it down when you move ,, now you are
inventing you own auto from parts bits and pieces !! not a conversion but
yet still converting what you can find . you said that you have some
artistic background so you will have to make the design low into something
that looks good . this should help you get out of the box . csilver_ if
this help I have some more brainstorming that I am willing to do for you in
the energy field that is not part of this forum contact me directly if
interested
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter VanDerWal<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 6:17 PM
Subject: Re: EV digest 6434
Ok then, let's start thinking outside the box.
Firsth thing you need to do is start thinking smaller. Pehaps something
like an Ford Escort station wagon. Fill the back up with camping gear
(tents etc.), Yeah it will take a bit longer to setup camp, but are you in
a hurry? Worse case you can fold down the rear seat and sleep in the
back.
Better yet, build a small vehicle, light weight with good enough storage.
Figure out the minimal amount of gear you need to take and make the
vehicle just big eough to carry that and as many batteries as you can
stuff in it.
Perhaps start with the frame from a late 80's 1 ton toyota pickup (these
were actually quite small. If you build a low profile, light weight body,
this will allow you to carry 1 ton of batteries.
That should get you 120-150 miles range as long as you don't drive to
fast. Farther if you drive at say 30 mph.
If you are recharging from solar, then you won't be able to drive that far
every day, parhaps once a week.
Or maybe go even smaller, and carry less gear. Think backpacking. Build
something like this:
http://www.blueskydsn.com/BugE_Concept.html<http://www.blueskydsn.com/BugE_C
oncept.html>
but a bit bigger so you can carry perhaps 10-12 bateries instead of only
4, and your dogs of course.
This is close to your budget too.
How athletic are you? Even a couch potato can produce 70-100 watts while
pedaling. Make a pedal powered generator and pedal it while writing or
possibly even while driving. The nice thing about this is you can produce
power even at night.
3 hours of pedaling should easily provide you with 200-300 watts, twice
that if you are in excellent shape. That's enough to charge about one
battery. At 120W solar panel can produce at least that much in a day if
you have good sunlight.
Your first question was why are EVs so small, the reason is it costs too
much to make them big. If you don't have a lot of money, think small.
> Cool, this is very helpful. I'm now looking to figure out how to
> either find or build a vehicle with the greatest ratio between weight
> and volume (lightest weight but biggest size) while keeping it
> structurally sound and road worthy. This is both an environmental and
> a utilitarian endeavor for me, as well as freedom; it's not about
> showing off anything or trying to make the neighbors jealous, but
> given my visual background in art and design, I will make sure it's
> aesthetically pleasing when I get done with it; I'm just not willing
> to pay what it costs to buy something ready-made.
>
>
> On Feb 17, 2007, at 3:50 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
>
>> This means that you would need 57.5/.6 or 96 of these batteries. They
>> weigh 70 pounds apiece, so that's 6720 pounds of batteries. The
>> Sprinter can't carry that much weight!
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don,
Thanks, already checked it out. Nothing smaller than 22ga. That's the
problem there are _tons_ of 22ga and larger crimpers. They don't work.
I even have the D-sub pin crimp dies for 26 & 24 ga. These simply jam,
as they're not made for ring terminals.
I'm not sure why they even bother to sell the 26/24 terminals, if
_nobody_ makes a crimper for it. What's the point?
Don Cameron wrote:
http://www.waytekwire.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> The Sprinter's top speed is the maximum velocity it can achieve. Not
> that hard to understand, I hope :) The idea is that the Sprinter will
> reach its top speed (whatever it is) with its ICE powerplant at 154 hp
> running flat-out.
I'm afraid that isn't neccessarily true either.
The maximum HP and ICE can develope occures at one particular RPM.
It is quite likely (probable even) that the vehicle will NOT be geared so
that it reaches it's top speed at this RPM.
More likely the vehicle will be geared at a point where it reachs top
speed at a point where the ICE runs out of torque at some point below it's
max power RPM, or it runs out of RPM at some point below it's max HP
torque point.
Either way it's unlikely that it will occure at precisely the right RPM
and torque to hit Max HP.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
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--- Begin Message ---
> ok think out side the BOX why not that 1 ton trouck cut off the steel
> where u can replace with alum. then get a fibreglass or composite trailer
> take the BOX off it and put on the reworked frame now u have a large light
> 2 person vechicle
First of all you won't save much weight that way, a few hundred pounds max
(The sprinter weights about 5,000 lbs)
Secondly the weight isn't the major problem, at least not at freeway
speeds, it's the size and aerodynamic drag.\
cut out the rear window and part of the roof then
> shape the roof *like* a 18 wheel truck cab over sleeper and u have a
> little more room put ur batteries ubder the box between the frame to help
> the center of gravity now it is more stable with more room and by
> rounding off the frount from left to right and sloping it from the
> windshield back to the top of the trailer box it helps but does not cure
> the frount drag . now extend the rework fram so that u can tapper from the
> sides back in a semi tear drop shape and u have less drag and 3-4 ft more
> room .
It's still going to be to way to big to go 150 miles on a charge. Even if
you put a ton of batteries on it, which will just about max out it's
weight once you add the camper components, etc.
> now for weight reasons you will need to go to ac drive with
> regenerative braking , use photovoltice film on the sides and top and u
> have some solar power nova technologies @ http://pesn!
> .com/radio/free_energy_now<http://pesn.com/radio/free_energy_now>
I get a 404 error from that link, but judging by the site, it's probably a
scam.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Bob Bath wrote:
>
> > After I've put about 6-9 mi. on the pack, (2-3
> kWh
> > or so), I get some huge battery voltage sags. I
> mean
> > from 146V down to 89V or so. It's just a few
> seconds,
> > maybe 5 at the most, so I'm not entirely fearful
> for
> > destroying the pack, but I've never seen this
> before!
>
> You wrote not that long ago about odd E-Meter
> readings since installing
> the DCP1200, and as I recall you tracked it down to
> interference from
> the traction wiring with the higher current
> controller. Is a new
> problem, or the same one? Are you sure? ;^>
>
> > If I let the car rest an hour, the problem
> disappears!
Definitely the same issue, but not as bad. The
question is whether turning down the Imax made a
difference, or re-routing the wire made the
difference...
>
> Disappears as in you can now put a further 6-9mi of
> similar driving on
> the pack without the sag reappearing?
This was apparently incorrect. Shouldn't have posted
that part.
> >
> > - I've turned down the current max control on the
> > Raptor, as I only need 600A. Am I not turned down
> > enough, and the effects of high current draws on
> the
> > motor are causing this? That would seem to me to
> > affect motor amps, which I don't monitor, not
> battery
> > amps, though... Should I turn the max current to
> full?
>
> The DCP current limit only sets battery current, not
> motor loop current.
> So, you've got the battery side limited to 600A, but
> the DCP1200 will
> still happily push more current through your motor
> whenever the present
> motor operating point (speed, load) allows.
>
> You may still have some EMI issues if you've got any
> E-Meter wiring
> running near the controller or the motor loop
> wiring.
>
These last two sentences were most helpful.
Apparently this pot may not be linear taper, and I
just may not have it backed off as much as I think I
do. Or, as you say, it could be routing still
Stay tuned!
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
____________________________________________________________________________________
Want to start your own business?
Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You could do like Otmar http://www.evcl.com/vw/index.html and splice two vans
together to give you more "waterline". And to
decrease the drag coefficient you could taper the whole thing towards the back
and use the front part for camping quarters and the
rear for stowage. Something this long could really be made aero-dynamic.
> csilver_ wrote:
>
> OK, this information helps. Thanks. So, the narrower the width of the
> vehicle, the better the aerodynamics, so 6' wide vehicle does better
> than a 9' wide vehicle. Does this mean that the overall length of the
> vehicle isn't as important? Should I be looking for something skinny
> and long rather than wide and short?
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Crystal and All,
I forgot about the VW chassis as a starting
point which is your best bet because it's light, strong, low
and flat and easily stretched. This will give you a very
good range if you build a light, aero body on it while
keeping your EV drive costs low. They are very good weight
carriers too.
It's front cab or just the front 3' could be
retained to save the time, hassle of building all that
electrical, steering, ect, maybe an aero cube van style .
Doors can be retained or use one aft like many MH's.
Most important is having a very comfortable
place to sit and a pair of reclining captain chairs in front
that swivel aft for living. Then you just need a good fold
out couch/bed that with the chairs gives you space for 5
people to visit and sit. Now add to that a galley space,
head/shower space as having a shower is a major time saver,
comfort item. Then off the rear a foldout room for longer
stays in 1 place. I wouldn't fold out sidways as it takes
too much problems building and adds much weight. Much better
to have a clean aero shape also to keep drag down.
You really only need standing headroom for
cooking and maybe showering though that can easily be done
sitting down so maybe just have a pop top for that area. So
you can be real comfortable within a low drag body.
While the cored FG panels are excellent they
are only good for flat areas and pricy. Better would using
plywood or making your own easy to do FG non cored panels,
both of which can be bent into a nice aero curve over just a
couple frames will make your body very easy, light to build
giving good range.
Don't try the foam then FG it technic as it
takes hugh amounts of time to finish well. I use Formica on
a to 4 sheets of ply to lay up FG panels on to the size you
need leaving an excellent finish, saving much time.
Insulating foam inside covered by paneling, paint, ect helps
greatly when cold, heat and help stop condensation.
Done this way your EV drive, battery pack can
be modest with good performance still getting 50-70 mile
range on lead GC batts and if a good scrounger, can do it
$5-10k for the whole vehicle. It also means you can use a
much smaller generator, less fuel to extend your range when
needed.
I'd just use enough solar panels for your
personal power needs as they won't give you any real range
improvement at a great cost that could be better used in
other places. A windgen you can set up when parked though
could really help putting out much more at a lower price.
You should be able to do this in 6 months.
Jerry Dycus
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: EV digest 6436
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2007 22:32:51 -0600
>On Feb 17, 2007, at 10:01 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion
>List wrote:
>
>> One more I thought of is the R. Q. Riley "Phoenix".
>>
>> <http://rqriley.com/phx.html>
>>
>> It's a camper van body that you build on an old VW
>> microbus chassis. Small and light for travelling, but
>> it opens up when parked to be roomy enough to live in.
>> Though an old design, it could be considerably upgraded
>> with what we know today. For instance, the roof could
>> be solar cells, so you have several times the area when
>parked and unfolded.
>
>I think I've seen this one before, and it's a neat idea. A
>while back I also came across something a bit more
>contemporary from an Australian designer. The firm does a
>lot of compact ecological housing and other buildings.
>
>http://www.andrewmaynard.com.au/
>
>Something like his BOB mobile home of the future looks
>promising. It's just a concept, not an actual product
>yet.
>
>http://www.andrewmaynard.com.au/BOB01.html
>
--- End Message ---
