EV Digest 6441
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Cobasys / Chevron NiMH Patent
by "Bruce" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) EVLN(Electric Car and other naughty words)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Commutator Controller
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: EVLN(Hankster Picks Up 1st ACP Scion XB EV)
by "Bruce" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: At what cd (drag coef) and roof size for a van would the drag
of the vehicle be less than the electricity generating rate of pv's
on the roof?
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) 450 HP in 60 little Orange Boxes!
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: NiMH Batteries (was Re: Introductions)
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: A Zilla 1K can produce 320 kilowatts, so this is doable.
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Cobasys / Chevron NiMH Patent
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Ovonic's NiMH battery info needed
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Thunder-Sky LiIon Batteries
by "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Ovonic's NiMH battery info needed
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Cobasys / Chevron NiMH Patent
by Frank John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: 450 HP in 60 little Orange Boxes!
by Frank John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: EVLN(PowerGenix next-gen NiZn to replace NiCd & NiMH batteries)
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: EV conversion questions
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Vexing issue w/ battery/controller.
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Motor Current Gauge, Was: A Zilla 1K can produce 320 kilowatts, so
this is doable.
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
The patent says, quote: "A sealed prismatic metal hydride battery greater
than 10 Ah in size".
I'm assuming prismatic means rectangular like the cells in a golf car
battery. What about using non prismatic cells which I assume would be the
cylindrical cells. This is clearly not covered by their patent. After all,
Orbitals and Optimas use cylindrical cells don't they? They can't be that
bad.
The Prius uses prismatic 6.5 AH cells. Bigger would undoubtedly be better,
but 10 AH is the limit without infringing on the Chevron owned patent.
What about super F sized cylindrical NiMH cells? 41.4mm diameter X 89.1mm
tall. About a pound each and about 20AH capacity. What is the availability
of these cells? Are any larger than super F sized cylindrical NiMH cells
made?
Maybe this could reduce the number of cells in the pack from a few thousand
to several hundred...
Bruce
Ian Hooper wrote:
> Well I'm willing to be a guinea pig and give this few-thousand-NiMHs
> idea a go! Hopefully in a couple of years I'll be in a position to
> say whether or not it was a good idea.. ;)
Bruce wrote:
> United States Patent 5,558,950
> Ovshinsky, et al. September 24, 1996
> Optimized cell pack for large sealed nickel-metal hydride batteries
> A sealed prismatic metal hydride battery greater than 10 Ah in size
> comprising a battery case of high thermal conductivity; and at least
> one bundle of metal hydride electrodes of high thermal conductivity
> in thermal contact with said battery case.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Electric Car and other naughty words)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/1111
Happy Birthday Kyoto!! »
Scrotum, Vagina, Electric Car, and other naughty words
Published by Josh Tulkin February 18th, 2007 in Side Notes,
Government, Youth Leaders, Political Participation, Humor, Clean
Cars
Sometimes the naughtiest words are the most important ones to
say. The New York Times reports that a controversy has exploded
because the newest winner of the prestigious Newberry Award
(think Oprah Book Club of Childrens lit) uses a really naughty
word in its first page
[...]
It got me thinking about how words play an intrinsic role in
visions and social movements. In a recent discussion with a
friend from Energy Justice Network, we discussed peoples
discomfort with the term Electric Car. Ill admit, I still
cringe at the mention of it in public. Not because I dont
believe in the idea of an electric car, but because it still has
the ring of a far-left hippy idea that most of the public will
dismiss. Which is probably true, right now. But should that
stop us from using it? Or encourage us?
[...]
So what are our naughty words in the climate movement? Electric
car? Conservation? Kyoto? Sacrifice? In the interest of making
our issue accessible, we often skirt these more challenging
solutions, opting for conservation, efficiency, wind power and
other feel-good terms. And for good reason - we need to make this
complex issue (and its laundry list of causes) accessible to the
public.
But lets not go too far. We are the the Youth Climate Movement,
right? We are the edge, the vision, the future. And we need to
speak that way. A few years ago, the Plug in Hybrid sounded
like fantasy - now its common place. But Kyoto has remained on
the naught list. Where is it on NRDCs website. Where is it on my
website?
Truth be told, we are falling behind in our messaging and our
vision. The country and congress have caught on, and they are
ready for a plan while we are still trying to sugar coat our
message. We need to articulate our vision in our own words, with
confidence. It may take some time to catch on. Think of climate
neutrality or 80% by 2050?. We can change the language of this
debate. We need to give our leaders something to look forward to,
something to grab on to. A trip to the moon. An electric car.
VAGINA!
But seriously. Lets say those naughty words and make them
normal. Run outside and scream Electric Car at the top of your
lungs. Say it earnestly. Scream it with passion. Say it as if
its the most normal thing in the world. And maybe, just maybe,
it will be.
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a PS3 game guru.
Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.
http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roger Stockton wrote:
Lee Hart wrote:
While I agree with the three choices, it seems that you are assuming
that the only PWM controller option is to use a series controller.
Perhaps the list of options needs to be extended:
b) replace it with a Curtis or other sep-ex motor controller
I thought of that; but we haven't been able to find any sepex
controllers for a 108v system. They existed in the past, but no one
seems to be building them now.
Changing the system voltage has other complications; it requires
changing the battery boxes, charger and instrumentation as well.
Essentially, starting all over with new wiring.
The Soleq hardware is very well made. I'm sure it would be fixable, if
someone only had the schematics and service information. But so far, it
hasn't surfaced.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Does anyone know which company this is that takes hybrid cars and converts
them to all-electric?
It seems like the Prius would make a great all-electric conversion, but I've
never heard of it being done.
____________________________________________________________________________
______
EVangel wrote:
>Tom Hanks is a big fan of electric cars...
> He also owns a
> hybrid and has invested in a company that takes hybrid cars
> and converts them to all-electric.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well keep in mind that the solar racers use rather "extreme"
construction. They are far from being practical vehicles in terms of
seating room, cargo capacity, durability, and safety.
Last time I remember looking at this, for a conversion on an existing
vehicle design and putting solar cells on the roof wasn't even like 10:1
for charge time to run time. Don't recall the exact ratio but IIRC it
was actually far worse than that. Then you have to deal with the fact
that a lot of the time you don't have good sun exposure due to
obstructions and sun angle and there's only so many sunlight hours in
the day.
You can look on eBay or Harbor Freight or whatever to see what the
finished size of some common panel types is versus the wattage. A 50W
(0.067 hp) panel is pretty huge!
It looked like it would be hard to get any additional range with solar,
simply because they wouldn't make enough electricity to offset the
additional drag losses they come with. As far as getting a practical
car going at 70mph, don't see that happening.
Danny
GWMobile wrote:
The solar racers are limited in size by the competition rules.
Not because they are the best size to reach 70 mph.
How much energy does it take to make the ultra vane or the other one
everyone is talking about to go 65 or 70 mph?
That will give us the watt requirement. Then we can compute the area
needed for the solar cells to extend the length.
On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 9:50 pm, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
Far to long to be able to legally drive it on the road.
All else being equal a longer vehicle has more drag than a shorter
vehicle, you you can't just make it longer without adding drag.
By the time you equal out the drag at 70 mph, you'd end up being longer
than a semi pulling three trailers.
Even the solar race cars can't manage 70 mph on just the energy from the
panels.
Let's have some fun.
At what cd (drag coef) and roof size for a van would the drag of the
vehicle be less than the electricity generating rate of pv's on the
roof?
In other words how long and aerodynamic would an van have to be before
it could crusie at say 70 mph endlessly on pv's on its roof in normal
unclouded daylight in say southern california latitude?
What is the cd of say a voyager van or another slick van?
How much would it have to be stretched to get enough roof for enough
photovoltaics (non titling so assume 30 degree sun angle.) To run all
day on a highway under the sun.
We can assume 10% pv efficiency right? Someone else here will know how
many watts it would take a typical van to run at 65 mph.
How efficient is the motor?
Let 's assume it is running in no battery mode so it's pv straight to
motor and there is no battery conversion loss.
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do
whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
We have a new slogan at Plasma Boy Racing....11's in 07!
I'm happy to report that Dick Brown (www.aerobatteries.com) pulled
through again for us this year and working with our sponsor Enersys, our
new 40% more powerful batteries have arrived! This year White Zombie
will again, be running on Hawker power, but instead of the 30 - 24.5 lb.
26 ahr Aerobatteries models we used last year, we will be using 60 of
the smaller Genesis model 16 ahr batteries. Yes, these are nearly the
same battery we ran with from '98 through '02, back when White Zombie
had 28 of them making up an ultra-light 378 lb. 336V battery pack.
Before they had been abused and super-heated to extreme hand-burning
levels, we could pull 750 amps from them with very few failures. Even
800 amps was doable for less than 10 seconds. Yeah, we did blow quite a
few of them up as the years were added on, but again, they only began to
fail after substantial abuse. Details for those interested, can be found
at the Plasma Boy web page...just click on the 'White Zombie History'
button and scroll to '1998 Early Version'.
There have been some changes made to these already terrific little
batteries over the years, the first and most obvious is that today they
are no longer labeled 'Hawker' since being bought out by Enersys. They
are now an Enersys 'Genesis 16 XE'. The Hawker electro-chemist at
Enersys I've been in close contact with, tells me the already beefy
inner-cell straps inside these tough bricks of power were thickened up
some more (yeah!) and their plate grid redesigned for even more
aggressive high current power delivery. Though still spec'ed out at 13.5
lbs. each, we weighed the new batteries on some pretty accurate scales
and they come in at 14 lbs. plus some change, so it seems that a bit
more lead is indeed, packed inside! Oh yeah, they're no longer black
like they used to be, and are that nice Hawker Odyssey orange color with
contrasting black labels.
So why are we going to run 60 of these smaller batteries over the 30
larger ones that produced that quick 12.151 @ 106.25 mph? The answer is
simple...A LOT MORE POWER!!! The Hawker guy says this battery is their
#1 most powerful battery in terms of power density, lb. for lb., than
any other battery in their line up. The 2nd most powerful is their
little 13 ahr, 10 lb. model, and the 3rd most powerful is the 26 ahr
models we have been using since '05. He and I had good discussions and
he confirmed that my observations of the earlier Hawker Genesis 16 EP
batteries we used to run years ago, were correct. Back then, when warmed
up they would sag to 6.9 volts at 750 amps current draw...this, out of a
13.5 lb. package. More recently, in early 2005 (check out the White
Zombie History page) when thanks to Dick Brown Hawker sponsorship
returned to the Plasma Boy team, I had my pick of any version I wanted.
A double string of the 16 ahr models was considered. However, the sheer
numbers of batteries, all the inter-connecting bus bars, plus the 70-90
lbs. of extra battery weight they would add, helped steer me away from
them. I really didn't fully understand the big difference in power
density these batteries had over their larger, heavier brothers, and I
chose 30 of the larger 26 ahr, 24.5 lb. models instead. Hey, it worked
out pretty good....low 12s aren't anything to be ashamed of :-)
Of course, we've learned a lot since then. Try as hard we did, with the
26 ahr models we just could not get any more power from the pack and
those 11's remained out of reach. Curves plotted from the Zilla's
Hairball told the story over and over...huge battery pack voltage sag
under load, especially after 4-5 seconds as the lead inner-cell straps
inside each battery heated up and became near-molten resistors. Last
year, those resistors became fuses as we began blowing batteries, too.
At 1000 amps (yeah, I know that's an awful lot to ask of a 24.5 lb. lead
acid battery) the batteries would initially only sag to about 8 volts
each (about 240V) and the power on launch and through most of the 1/8th
mile was fantastic, but after that as the inner-cell straps would go
near molten, the pack dropped to 180 volts (just 6V per battery), and
the car's acceleration would flatten out. Again, the Hairball curves
showed what was happening, and melted inner-cell straps don't lie. We
were clearly battery limited....time for a change. To be fair, the 26
ahr Aerobatteries performed above our expectations since they were rated
for 950 amps for 5 seconds, and certainly not designed to do 1000 amps
for 12 seconds! However, Hawker's electro-chemist agrees with me, that
the longer runs of lead strapping inside the 26 ahr batteries we had
been using the past two years were creating higher resistance under the
extreme currents we were drawing, and he again, told me about the stubby
thick inner cell straps and the more aggressive grid design on the
newest 16 ahr models.
The switch to 60 of these new, smaller Enersys 16 XE batteries is very
exciting, because the math looks very encouraging. One 26 ahr battery
weighs about 24 lbs. and sags to 6V @ 1000 amps, for 6 kw of power. Two
of the new little 16 XEs represent 28 lbs. but only sag to about 7
volts @ 750 amps each...that's 7V @ 1500 amps for 10.5 kw of power! That
works out to be a 50% power increase, so the claim of a 40% power
increase seems very believable. At 500 amps draw, each 16 XE might only
sag to 8 volts or so. Stay with me everyone....our best ET of 12.151 @
106 mph was done with the battery current limited to 1000 amps and the
pack sagged down to 180V, 180 kw of power for the last 3-4 seconds of
that run. Now...a new double string of the 16 XEs might fall to 8V per
battery at 500 amps near the end of a run for a pack sag of 240V @ 1000
amps....240 kw of power! That's a 35% power increase doing my
conservative seat-of-the-pants analysis. Sooooo...it seems if Tim and I
take it easy when we first go out with the car and leave the current
limit set at 1000 amps (even though we can now go as high as 1500 amps)
we'll still have an extra 80 hp to play with at the far end of the
track! We're thinking the car might bust into the high 11's without even
turning the screws up! Cranking up the juice eventually, to the full
1500 amps with warmed-up batteries, should only initially sag the pack
to about 7.5V per battery right off the line for a pinch more than 450
'battery' hp at launch! After that, the pack will get closer to 7V per
battery for the duration of the run. Like I said...11's in 07!
The new pack would have added about 90 lbs. weight to the car, but
careful attention to detail and lots of planning have cut that down
considerably. This past week and weekend's efforts, along with Marko's
metal shop expertise have produced all new battery compartments for the
car. The previous rear seat area compartment weighed 34 lbs....the new
one? Just 14 lbs.! The rear sunken trunk area tray with hold-downs
weighed about 16 lbs....the new one? Just under 5 lbs.! We've trimmed
more than 30 lbs. just in the battery compartments' redesign, and we're
still not done with the weight reductions. How'd we do it? Instead of
3/16 thick aluminum and a basic box with thick pedestal mounts and such,
we used thin sheet aluminum with lots of bends, creases, gussets, and
supports. We also cut out material where we could and used lighter
weight material in general. I'm still considering an aluminum Ford 9
inch casting that will trim up to 45 lbs. weight off that heavy rear
end. It's entirely possible to get the car to weigh less than the
previous version, even with 840 lbs. of hi pro lead in the car.
I'll be adding new photos to the web page soon. OK, I'll sit back now
and take the feedback from everyone. Am I nuts, or are we on the right
track? Will we fail to hit the 11s, or will White Zombie be required to
be fully caged when it hits an 11.5 this year when we dial-up the full
1500 amps?
One more thing....White Zombie will be a 'highlighted' car at the
upcoming Portland Roadster Show and will be displayed at the entrance
into the main arena of the show. This is quite an honor and a step
forward for EV acceptance in the hot rod world. The show promoters are
encouraging us to set up and loop videos of White Zombie taking out
classic muscle cars and hot rice burner imports. We are happy to accept
their request! Any local geek types with a big flat screen and computer
setup wanna lend us a hand? New Enersys and 'Genesis XE' stickers will
be affixed by show time, mirrors will let show-goers see the battery
packs, and NEDRA promo material will be on display and ready to hand
out. Should be a fun weekend. March 2nd, 3rd, and 4th.
See Ya......John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Then I have been miss-informed (or just remembered it wrong ) in my time
on this list. 1 nimh is easy to charge. Flooded nicads are great. But i
thought there was a negative dv/dt to detect on nimh So what do i have
to do to manage a series parallel stack of nimh? The board I am
designing may only need a software change to accomadate the different
chemistries.
On lithium-ion, as far as I know I can treat them just like AGMs
constant current to voltage cutoff, constant voltage until current drops
to below .2C (or coulumb counting says I am done) and do my best to keep
the temperature even accross the cells.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Oops, I shouldn't try to be funny. The point is that the statement "A
Zilla 1K can produce 320 kilowatts", by itself, is a little misleading
to the noobs. It doesn't mention the other half of the equation. The
motor. What is normally available, an generally accepted is that 170V
is the upper voltage limit for an advanced (commutator timing,not brand
name) series wound motor, which is the only type the Zilla can be used with.
In order to take advantage of that peak, the whole system must be able
to do it. batteries,cables,controller,fuses,contactors,and motor(s)
(clutch tranny,rearend...). My vehicle suffers accelerating from a
light, 1st gear is too low, and second needs a little more torque A
second or larger motor would help it a lot.
Who needs it? While 200hp is fine in my grand am, the Z car at 4050lbs
needs a little more to restore that cars sporty feel; to be what people
expect that car to be.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well the 17 yr old ones are expiring which means some nimh ARE
producable.
On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 10:11 pm, FRED JEANETTE MERTENS wrote:
GUYS THE BAD NEWS IS THAT OVONICS HAS 360 PATENTS ALL ON NIMH
BATTERIES READ IT ON THE EV WORLD WEB PAGE A FEW MO. BACK.
----- Original Message -----
From: Lee Hart<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 7:53 PM
Subject: Re: Cobasys / Chevron NiMH Patent
From: GWMobile
>So how did those 1990 nimh batteries perform?
Not very good, actually. High internal resistance, and large
variations between cells. But... they did have twice the amphour
capacity at low rates as nicads. The label says:
Harding Energy Systems
Grand Haven, MI 49417 USA
(616)847-0989
Rechargeable Nickel-Hydride Battery
AA size -- 1.2 volts -- Capacity 1000mah
Charge 16 hours at 100ma
No memory -- Non-toxic -- High Capacity
I originally had four; two have survived to this day. I just did a
quick test and they still measure 1.244v and 1.252v open circuit, and
deliver 245ma and 325ma short circuit (pretty amazing for a 17 year old
cell)!
> If you have had ovonics since 1990 then I have good news for the
group.
> Drumrolll... That version of the nimh batteries is out of patent
because the
> 17 yrs is up.
Right. It *has* to be! but, would anyone would want to make them with
this same formula? Probably not.
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
leeahart_at_earthlink.net
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Noel P. Luneau wrote:
Hi Victor,
Did you ever figure out a charging profile for the Ovonics?
Noel,
Yes, I know how to do it, but it may be tricky to set up
with NLG4 unless you can track Ah in and out and can accurately
measure voltage and temperatures. Basically you
have to charge at 20A until thermo-compensated 1.509 VPC is reached,
then drop it to 10A, then to 5A and finally finish off at 5A for
1 hour.
That last top-off step is not necessary to do on every cycle,
only once in a while depending on how the battery is used.If at any of
these steps SOC reach 115% you stop.
If the temp reach 50'C you start cooling, and if reach 60'C stop
charging and wait until it drops at least to 50'C.
Max voltage on charge has negative temp dependency. You compensate
by -0.024T (T in deg Celsius) for 11 cell battery, T being hottest
battery in the string.
Ovonic wants you to measure voltage to +/-0.5V accuracy, but 1% is
really acceptable. Not sure what NLG4 offers.
I have set up my BRUSA NLG513-WA + BCM200 Ah counter in my Honda ACRX
to do about this all, (except I don't have active cooling and start off
with about 10A) and as time permits will upload correct profile to the
NLG5 profiles library page on my web site. I has to deviate from this
profile though because my batteries aren't new and do not possess 85Ah
as rated, so tracking Ah is not helping in my case. I just charge until
they are full and the criteria is their temp rise, I stop when dT/dt
exceeds programmed value. I think I set it to 1'C per minute threshold.
Good luck,
Victor
I have my Force apart and am looking at reprogramming the BC3300
(NLG412) charger and the ACM325 motor controller. I may be able to
accomplish this as there is a working Force near me, but was wondering
if you had any suggestions.
However, what I don't have is a BTMS for the Ovonics that will drive the
customm air cooled fans that I will have to assemble and manage the
charging profile. I was wondering what you use/suggest for these touchy
batteries.
Does anyone else have any suggestions as to what to use for a BTMS?
Thanks,
Noel L
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Noel P. Luneau
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 5:53 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Ovonic's NiMH battery info needed
Hi Victor,
When I contacted Zivan USA they said they have a charging profile for
Ovonics. I'm hoping to have 15 of my 30 13.2v's in my Force.
Solectria must have the charging profile as they used them in the Force
for awhile. There is a document on the Internet when two Forces, EV15
and EVHQ were tested. No charging profiles but interesting reading.
I'll let you know if I can get the charger and controller reprogrammed.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: "Victor Tikhonov"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 10/5/05 5:39:04 PM
To: "[email protected]"<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Ovonic's NiMH battery info needed
Roger,
Better than nothing, but still not a thing about charging profile.
I know more details about charging, but would love to see original
Ovonic's info.
Roger Stockton wrote:
http://www.cobasys.com/pdf/transportation/Series9500/Series_9500_Brochur
e.html
The 13.2V module consists of 11 of these 9500-series cells strapped
together and connected in series. The Cobasys series 9500 12V battery
consists of 10 cells strapped together and connected in series.
They are different, but the individual cells that make them up appear
identical and should have the same charge requirements. What little
charge information Cobasys appears to provide can be found in the
brochure for the 9500 series that targets stationary applications:
<http://www.cobasys.com/pdf/stationary/Series9500/ST_Series_9500_Brochur
e.html>
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How is that project coming along ?
Im calculating this 11.5kwh pack, at $680 per kwh
If it lasts, its not a bad deal
/kert
On 2/18/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I got the batteries from everspring in HK, the guys name is Keith Lau.
45 x 80Ah cells (with interconnects) cost me about AUD$10K including import
duties and transportation. Its the best deal I have seen for large format LiIon
cells. The cells are 3.2V nominal and require a BMS.
So far, after a few test drives the pack is performing very well. Time will tell
if they live up to the forecast cycles.
Website http://www.everspring.net/product-battery.htm
I will put up more info and pics on my website in the next few weeks once I have
finished making all the BMS modules.
Regards, Rod Dilkes
www.dilkesmotors.com
>-----Original Message-----
>I have just installed 45 ThunderSky TS-LFP80AHA batteries in my car and taken
it
>for a couple of test runs.
>These batteries are GREAT!!!
>Half the weight and at least 1.5 x the range of my old lead pack. Much less
>voltage sag under acceleration also.
>I am never gonna tow lead again... not ever!
>Just a matter of finishing installing and fine tuning the BMS.
>Regards, Rod Dilkes
>www.dilkesmotors.com
Do you have a spec or a link for the batteries? What kind of BMS are you going
to use?
Frank T.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
...
Ovonic wants you to measure voltage to +/-0.5V accuracy, but 1% is
really acceptable.
Sorry, typo on my part. This line should read:
Ovonic wants you to measure voltage to +/-0.5% accuracy, but 1% is
> really acceptable.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My only concern with nickel batteries is that they seem to be inefficient.
They have great energy density but take ~twice the grid electricity to recharge
compared with PbA. Widespread electrification of transportation probably won't
happen with these batteries.
____________________________________________________________________________________
Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545367
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Congratulations - it all sounds very exciting. I wish I could see this car in
person. More power AND lighter weight?! You guys will have a blast!
____________________________________________________________________________________
Cheap talk?
Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.
http://voice.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Looking at their web site,
http://www.powergenix.com/service.htm
A C cell size with 1.7Ah and 9C discharge (15A) has
200 Cycles listed as the charge life. Hopefully they
can improve this aspect of the battery.
Rod
--- bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> EVLN(PowerGenix next-gen NiZn to replace NiCd & NiMH
> batteries)
> [The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public
> EV
> informational purposes. Contact publication for
> reprint rights.]
> --- {EVangel}
> http://sys-con.com/read/338702.htm
> PowerGenix Selects Manufacturing Partner to Produce
> Sealed
> Rechargeable Nickel-Zinc Batteries
>
> High Volume Forecast for the Evolution of Thomas
> Edison's Work
> Prompts Action By: PR Newswire Feb. 16, 2007
> 09:24 PM
>
> SAN DIEGO, Feb. 16 /PRNewswire/ -- PowerGenix, Inc.,
> a leading
> developer of high-rate discharge, sealed
> rechargeable nickel-zinc
> (NiZn) batteries, announced today that in order to
> prepare for
> its ramp-up phase, it has entered into an agreement
> with Hunan
> Corun Hi-Tech Co. Ltd, for high volume production
> and Asian
> distribution of its innovative NiZn batteries. Maybe
> Thomas
> Edison was right after all. Mr. Edison's work on the
> invention of
> the Galvanic battery incorporated nickel & zinc. And
> now, after
> other elements such as Nickel Cadmium (proven to be
> toxic),
> Nickel Metal Hydride (expensive), Lithium Ion
> (unstable) et al,
> Nickel Zinc is proving to be safe and effective for
> many high
> power applications in addition to being the
> friendliest to the
> environment.
>
> "Nickel Zinc has always been the holy grail of
> chemical
> composition," stated Joseph A. Carcone, Vice
> President of
> PowerGenix. "The limiting factor has always been
> reliability and
> cycle life, which PowerGenix has solved. First, the
> PowerGenix
> 'secret sauce' electrolyte is a deterrent, as is
> their separator
> material and the sealed cylindrical spirally wound
> design. In
> fact, we own many patents on the solution," added
> Mr. Carcone.
>
> "Because of the fervent response we've already
> experienced to our
> new nickel-zinc batteries, particularly from a
> sampling of the
> most demanding users of nickel-cadmium batteries, it
> became very
> clear that we needed to select a manufacturing
> partner that could
> respond to the unique demands of the cordless power
> tool market.
> This made the selection of our manufacturing partner
> a critical
> decision," stated PowerGenix's chief executive
> officer Dan
> Squiller. "As we ramp our production, Corun's
> technical
> expertise, innovative manufacturing techniques, and
> commitment to
> nickel-zinc chemistry will help ensure we meet the
> existing and
> evolving needs of the marketplace.
>
> All of this was taken into account with the
> selection of Corun as
> the ideal manufacturing partner that possessed the
> right balance
> of technical innovation, reputation for quality
> products, concern
> for the environment and the capability of quickly
> scaling to the
> anticipated demand." After a thorough search for the
> right
> manufacturing company that not only had the
> necessary production
> capacity but also possessed mature manufacturing
> processes and
> controls, we chose Corun. They represent everything
> we're looking
> for in a manufacturing partner," commented Mr.
> Squiller.
>
> About Hunan Corun: HUNAN CORUN HI-TECH CO.,LTD was
> founded on
> June 8, 2001, located at ChaoYang Hi-Tech Park,
> YiYang, Hunan -
> China, and has a plant space of 45000 square meters
> and a daily
> production capacity of 800,000 cells.
>
> Corun is focused on product quality and
> environmental protection
> to the point that their company tenet is to "avoid
> waste, save
> resources and protect the earth." At the beginning
> of 2002, Corun
> set out to build environmental management system
> ISO14001, and in
> April 2004 received the authentication of their
> environmental
> management system. They are certified by UL, CE,
> ISO9001: 2000,
> IS014001: 1996, RBRC, etc. They are well suited to
> transition
> PowerGenix's rechargeable NiZn batteries from
> prototype
> production in San Diego into high volume production
> for worldwide
> distribution.
>
> "PowerGenix's innovative nickel-zinc battery
> chemistry is a
> revolutionary step in achieving long life cycle and
> high specific
> energy. We're excited that we were chosen to produce
> such a
> groundbreaking and environmentally-friendly
> technology," stated
> Mr. Chen Zhen Bing, General Manager of Corun.
> "Because we are a
> leading producer of nickel-metal hydride batteries,
> we have the
> right equipment, quality processes and personnel to
> produce the
> PowerGenix cells, and we are well prepared for
> PowerGenix's
> ramp-up phase."
>
> PowerGenix has developed and patented a
> next-generation NiZn
> sealed rechargeable battery technology especially
> suited as a
> replacement in high power NiCd and NiMH
> applications.
>
> PowerGenix's initial products will target high rate
> discharge
> applications such as cordless power tools as well as
> military
> applications; with longer term plans to enter other
> markets,
> including the emerging Light Electric Vehicle (HEV)
> and selected
> consumer product segments. The company's battery
> technology
> offers key strategic advantages including high
> performance, low
> cost and safety -- all without the toxic
> environmental impact
> associated with today's commonly used rechargeable
> nickel-cadmium
> batteries. With this strategic agreement now in
> place, PowerGenix
> has greatly enhanced its production capabilities and
> is well
> positioned to meet the high volume demand of the
> rechargeable
> battery industry.
>
> About PowerGenix: Founded in 2000 and located in San
> Diego,
> Calif., PowerGenix has developed and patented a
> high-energy
> density, high-cycle life and low-cost NiZn battery
> that is
> specifically designed to utilize existing NiCd
> manufacturing
> processes, techniques and equipment, thereby
> significantly
> reducing time-to-market and eliminating costly
> equipment design
> steps. With its patented rechargeable NiZn battery
> technology,
> PowerGenix is pursuing applications to replace
> existing NiCd and
> NiMH batteries in the multi-billion dollar
> rechargeable battery
> market.
> [...]
> PowerGenix, Inc. CONTACT: Terry Vitiello of Quantum
> Communications, +1-760-754-3220, ext. 11,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED], for PowerGenix, Inc.
> © 2007 SYS-CON Media Inc.
> -
>
=== message truncated ===
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Welcome to the list, Andrew.
A friend of mine, Leo Galcher, in So. Cal., has
done the 1970 Bimmer, and I think it was a 2002 as
well. You'd be wise to talk with him as he actually
transferred every component from one chassis to
another. Apparently BMW had changed model years that
year, which made for some awkward/unreliable
components that were hard to find replacements for.
Victor is a contributor to the list. Lots of
people like his components, though AC is slightly more
expensive both in the controller, and also in the
batteries needed to get the voltage to where your
performance will be decent, and also for the battery
management system, assuming you'd be using AGM lead
acid technology.
Mike Brown basically wrote the bible "Convert It"
that gets most of us started in this venture. He
supports his products well.
EV Parts is another supplier, but I don't think
that they stock AC at this point, if that's your
thing.
Best to you,
--- Andrew Goodman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am newbe to your list.
>
> I have been considering doing a EV conversion, using
> a
> 1970 BMW 2002, a neat little car that I own.
>
> I am looking at a direct drive AC conversions, and
> it
> seems the only suppliers of (affordable) motors and
> controllers out there are MetricMind
> http://www.metricmind.com/ and ElectroAutomotive
> http://www.electroauto.com/index.html.
>
> Has anyone out there done an AC conversion?
>
> With parts from these places?
>
> Has anyone dealt with these companies?
>
> Are there other suppliers that I should look into?
>
> Thanks in advance for the advice.
> Andy
>
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> It's here! Your new message!
> Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.
> http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
____________________________________________________________________________________
Get your own web address.
Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Still getting it, though my max battery current pull
appears to be down to 220A right now.
Again, it's only happening after 30 min., or 2kWh of
driving.
I'm thinking there is something in the controller that
is heat-dependent that is limiting my voltage.
Seeing as I've used all of these connectors for 7K
miles over the last 3 years, I'm not going with the
'poor crimp/loose wire' explanation. Also, that would
be a problem that I see on startup, not 1/2 way
through my trips.
Sounds like I'd best go back to the manufacturer...
--- Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Bob Bath wrote:
>
> > These last two sentences were most helpful.
> > Apparently this pot may not be linear taper, and I
> > just may not have it backed off as much as I think
> I
> > do. Or, as you say, it could be routing still
>
> It should be pretty easy to verify since you have an
> E-Meter watching
> the battery side current. Just crank the current
> limit down
> ridiculously far and then see what the peak current
> reading is that you
> can get on the E-Meter. If the vehicle performance
> is unacceptable then
> turn up the adjustment a bit and repeat until you
> are just able to 'peg'
> the E-Meter at between 500-511A indicated. At this
> point, your battery
> side current should be very similar to what it was
> with the prior
> DCP600, so if the voltage problem persists I'd start
> by looking at
> E-Meter wiring near the controller or motor loop
> wiring.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Roger.
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a PS3 game guru.
Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.
http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you have a Zilla, there is all ready a motor amp shunt inside the Zilla
that is between the controller and the motor. You can run the motor amp
display on a tachometer which I do. You have to program the Zilla for AMP
ON TACH mode. The manual shows you how to do it.
I use a separate speed rotation counter that can count revolutions per
minute and then converts it to RPM digital display that I got from
www.surplussales.com for $10.00. They have about 5000 of these in stock.
You can use a magnet, magnetic switch, reed switch any device that will
count one pulse per revolution.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 11:12 PM
Subject: RE: Motor Current Gauge, Was: A Zilla 1K can produce 320 kilowatts,
so this is doable.
> There is only one place it can go: between controller and motor, as the
> motor is normally directly connected to the controller with 2 short thick
> cables. The shunt goes in one of the two cable runs.
> Cor.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Bruce
> Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 10:01 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Motor Current Gauge, Was: A Zilla 1K can produce 320 kilowatts,
> so
> this is doable.
>
> How exactly do you measure the motor current? Do you use a 2nd shunt?
> Where in the circuit is it placed?
>
> Bruce
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 8:26 PM
> Subject: Re: A Zilla 1K can produce 320 kilowatts, so this is doable.
>
>
> > In a Zilla, the motor volts and amps may not be the same as the battery
> > volts and amps at certain loads and rpm of the motor.
> >
> > For example:
> >
> > My EV at 30 mph at 2000 rpm, the motor amps is 200 while the motor volts
> is
> > 60 volts while the battery amperes reads 75 amps at 172 volts on a 180
> volt
> > pack in a gear ratio of 5.57:1
> >
> > As the speed and rpm gets higher in the same gear ratio, the motor volts
> is
> > over 200 volts and the ampere is over 350 amps at 80 mph at 6000 rpm
> > while
> > the battery voltage reads as low as 100 volts at a battery ampere of 650
> > amps.
> >
> > The most important gage I have is the motor ampere gage, which is a
> > large
> > one right in front next to the tach. If you are not using a motor amp
> > gage
> > and thinking that the battery amps is the same amperes as the motor amp,
> you
> > could be pulling 300 to 400 amps on your motor while you think you are
> only
> > pulling 100 amps on the motor using the battery amp meter.
> >
> > Your motor amp meter should be red line for the continuous running
> > amperes
> > that your motor is spec for.
> >
> > Roland
>
>
--- End Message ---
