EV Digest 6446
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Scrapping noise
by Peter Eckhoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Ovonic's NiMH battery info needed
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
3) RE: EV digest 6424
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: First post
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Solar commuters, musings
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: White Zombie 11s??no 10s
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
7) Re: Solar commuters, musings
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: converting auto to manual trans
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: NiMH Batteries (was Re: Introductions)
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: A Zilla 1K can produce 320 kilowatts, so this is doable.
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: NiMH Batteries (was Re: Introductions)
by Ian Hooper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Scrapping noise
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: White Zombie 11s??no 10s
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: EVLN(UAE wants 10k French Dassault EVs)
by "James Allgood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: NiMH Batteries (was Re: Introductions)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Scrapping noise
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: NiMH Batteries (was Re: Introductions)
by "Dmitri" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) NiMh looking for the Ovonics (Cobasys) charge profile and temperature
compensation data
by Paul Wallace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) It's official, the Saft STM5-180 nicad has been discontinued
by Paul Wallace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: NiMh looking for the Ovonics (Cobasys) charge profile and temperature
compensation data
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) LEV Conference, Taipei Cycle Show March 20-23
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Youtube e-cycle how to
by "James Allgood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hello All,
We have a TEAA member who hit a bad bump. The motor mount on his Geo
metro shifted down a couple of inches. The motor - adapter plate -
transmission connection looks solid but there is a scrapping noise
coming from the car. We put the car on a hoist and examined the brushes
but we could not see anything apparent.
He does not want to drive it for fear of doing more damage (if the noise
indicates damage is being done).
Has anyone "been there"?
I am looking for someone with a sound recorder so I can put this up on
our web site.
Peter
cc Buddy Toler
Don Crohan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor
Take a look at page 34 is the Ovonics brochure
_http://avt.inl.gov/pdf/fsev/sce_rpt/s10_nimh_report.pdf_
(http://avt.inl.gov/pdf/fsev/sce_rpt/s10_nimh_report.pdf)
Says 16.0 volts Max charging 1.509 volts per cell would be 16.599. I also
notice for maximum life they recommend temperature 45 C. On page 29 the DSTC
shows quite a drop when going over temperature 25 C
I have watched the voltage during charging in the factory NiMH truck. The
BMS will not let them go over 1.47 Volts per cell. The 26 batteries 420 volts
right at 1.4685
Don
In a message dated 2/19/2007 3:05:27 AM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Noel P. Luneau wrote:
> Hi Victor,
>
> Did you ever figure out a charging profile for the Ovonics?
Noel,
Yes, I know how to do it, but it may be tricky to set up
with NLG4 unless you can track Ah in and out and can accurately
measure voltage and temperatures. Basically you
have to charge at 20A until thermo-compensated 1.509 VPC is reached,
then drop it to 10A, then to 5A and finally finish off at 5A for
1 hour.
That last top-off step is not necessary to do on every cycle,
only once in a while depending on how the battery is used.If at any of
these steps SOC reach 115% you stop.
If the temp reach 50'C you start cooling, and if reach 60'C stop
charging and wait until it drops at least to 50'C.
Max voltage on charge has negative temp dependency. You compensate
by -0.024T (T in deg Celsius) for 11 cell battery, T being hottest
battery in the string.
Ovonic wants you to measure voltage to +/-0.5V accuracy, but 1% is
really acceptable. Not sure what NLG4 offers.
I have set up my BRUSA NLG513-WA + BCM200 Ah counter in my Honda ACRX
to do about this all, (except I don't have active cooling and start off
with about 10A) and as time permits will upload correct profile to the
NLG5 profiles library page on my web site. I has to deviate from this
profile though because my batteries aren't new and do not possess 85Ah
as rated, so tracking Ah is not helping in my case. I just charge until
they are full and the criteria is their temp rise, I stop when dT/dt
exceeds programmed value. I think I set it to 1'C per minute threshold.
Good luck,
Victor
> I have my Force apart and am looking at reprogramming the BC3300
> (NLG412) charger and the ACM325 motor controller. I may be able to
> accomplish this as there is a working Force near me, but was wondering
> if you had any suggestions.
>
> However, what I don't have is a BTMS for the Ovonics that will drive the
> customm air cooled fans that I will have to assemble and manage the
> charging profile. I was wondering what you use/suggest for these touchy
> batteries.
>
> Does anyone else have any suggestions as to what to use for a BTMS?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Noel L
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Noel P. Luneau
> Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 5:53 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Ovonic's NiMH battery info needed
>
> Hi Victor,
>
> When I contacted Zivan USA they said they have a charging profile for
> Ovonics. I'm hoping to have 15 of my 30 13.2v's in my Force.
>
> Solectria must have the charging profile as they used them in the Force
> for awhile. There is a document on the Internet when two Forces, EV15
> and EVHQ were tested. No charging profiles but interesting reading.
>
> I'll let you know if I can get the charger and controller reprogrammed.
>
> Noel
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Victor Tikhonov"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: 10/5/05 5:39:04 PM
> To: "[email protected]"<[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: Ovonic's NiMH battery info needed
>
> Roger,
>
> Better than nothing, but still not a thing about charging profile.
> I know more details about charging, but would love to see original
> Ovonic's info.
>
> Roger Stockton wrote:
>
>>
> http://www.cobasys.com/pdf/transportation/Series9500/Series_9500_Brochur
>> e.html
>>
>> The 13.2V module consists of 11 of these 9500-series cells strapped
>> together and connected in series. The Cobasys series 9500 12V battery
>> consists of 10 cells strapped together and connected in series.
>>
>> They are different, but the individual cells that make them up appear
>> identical and should have the same charge requirements. What little
>> charge information Cobasys appears to provide can be found in the
>> brochure for the 9500 series that targets stationary applications:
>>
>>
> <http://www.cobasys.com/pdf/stationary/Series9500/ST_Series_9500_Brochur
>> e.html>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Roger.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Joe,
I was not aware of the extended capabilities of the PFC model chargers, my
apologies for generalizing them with other switcher type power supplies.
This is good news for whoever want to run them on solar or wind power.
Cor.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Joe Smalley
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 10:30 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: EV digest 6424
I want to clear up some misconceptions:
1. Just because a power supply is PFC does not mean it will not play well
with solar panels. Many fixed voltage and current power supplies have a
'negative resistance startup characteristic' that solar panels do not like.
The PFC chargers do not behave that way. You can adjust the PFC chargers to
behave like that, but it is not their nature to behave that way.
2. The Manzanita PFC charger power control circuits have three modes of
operation:
a) Constant resistance. This applies to Non buck enhanced modes when the
input voltage is under 180 VAC. As the input voltage rises, the current
rises proportionally. It is not negative resistive. Solar panels have no
problem with this property.
b) Constant power. This applies to Non buck enhanced modes when the
input voltage is over 180 VAC. As the input voltage rises, the current falls
inversely proportional to the voltage. It is a negative resistive
characteristic. Solar panels do not like this kind of load when operating
near their limit. They will play well when not near their limit. This mode
can be controlled when the machine is built by installing different
programming resistors.
c) Constant current. This applies to buck enhanced models at all
voltages. Solar panels work well with this mode but the buck enhanced models
that have been sold do not work from DC. The new buck enhanced models coming
out in a few months will work in this mode from DC. These are being
developed to be used in plug in hybrid kits.
3. The PFC chargers can be programmed through the external control port to
do power point tracking. Yes, it requires some interfacing and software
work. I'm currently doing it on an old MSDOS computer. Any computer with a
programming language and talks to an RS232 port can be used.
4. The buck enhancement feature can be turned off by moving one jumper on
the control board.
5. The Manzanita PFC machines charge fast for two reasons: PFC and
efficiency. The PFC allows the charger to pull more watts from a fixed AC
voltage and breaker size because the charger generates very little harmonic
and phase distortion that reflects back to the source causing the breaker to
open prematurely. The efficiency is above 90% therefore over 90% of the
energy from the source is delivered to the battery rather than generating
heat inside the charger.
6. Smart charging algorithms are good but the price of the hardware and
software development will nearly double the price of the chargers.
7. Isolation is good, but it nearly doubles the cost, size and weight of the
chargers.
8. No, I'm not the owner.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder [EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 12:20 PM
Subject: RE: EV digest 6424
> Hi Crystal,
>
> This is a PFC charger, so it won't play nice with your solar panels, if
you
> try plugging the charger directly into the panels. But it is one of the
best
> chargers for grid plug-in. The owner is on this list and will likely
respond
> to you, though he is extremely busy developing and shipping these units so
> it may take a bit of time.
> Cor.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 11:56 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: EV digest 6424
>
> The site doesn't seem to tell me what this does exactly. It's a charger,
> yes, but what good does it do me if I have to plug it into an AC outlet
> anyway? I'm not sure I understand the purpose of this and how it works and
> how it will afford me a greater range. Does it speed up the time required
to
> fully re-juice the batteries? Is it like the equivalent to using a
> cigarette-lighter adapter for your cell phone (1-2 hours charging rather
> than 5-6)? The website is spartan at best, and the information it provides
> is limited in scope (at least for someone who has never done this before).
>
>
>
> On Feb 16, 2007, at 1:18 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
>
> > From: Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Date: February 16, 2007 1:18:42 PM CST
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: RE: First post
> >
> >
> > Crystal, never under estimate the power of google.
> >
> > http://www.manzanitamicro.com/
> >
> >
> > Also read the archives on yahoo (link below), lots of people use these
> > chargers (including me). All your questions will be answered with a
> > little searching and reading.
> >
> >
> > Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 2/16/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
convert is something like a Dodge Sprinter (the short body 118"
version, which is about the length of a mini-van, but I need to get
the high roof version, which measures 73" or 6 ft standing room from
floor to ceiling),
You can (or could) buy a ready made EV Sprinter van:
http://tinyurl.com/yvnbv7
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Lee, Bruce and All,
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Solar commuters, musings
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 22:27:28 -0500 (EST)
>From: jerryd
>> The solar commuter is an interesting problem...
>> a simple tricycle with just a solar roof can work well,
>> getting probably 15-25 mile/day...
>> Or one can have a much more aero, faster vehicle
>> run on batteries and use folding panels that can be
>> orientated to the sun while parked, what it does most of
>> the time... There is no reason one couldn't build a
>sail/EV hybrid...
>
>That's the spirit!
There really are many different ways, those were
just the first off the top of my head. Though to be honest.
I'd never build one unless it was for a contest as I see it
better to design an eff EV run from plug in batteries for
much less cost, more flexability, night, inclement weather.
>
>I tried to write the rules to encourage creativity; so
>people would try *many* different approaches. Jerry's come
>up with three almost immediately. I'm sure there are more.
>Who knows *what* kind of vehicle would turn out the be the
>best commuter? Anything from a hydrogen car to a horse! :-)
That's pushing it Lee ;^D
Horses went out when their feed, care, exhaust costs
went above what it took to run an EV's which in the
1880's-1910's went to electric trucks, trolley car costs in
the big cities.
>-- Lee Hart
From: Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>http://www.xlr8sun.com may have beat you to the punch
That's Larry who helped start the Fla EAA who was
at the BBB with his solarcar. I've helped him some over the
yrs and there talked with him on improving his aero. But
his car is large and not very practical though with
improvements, it could work for some people. I just have a
thing about driving such a low vehicle full time.
Don't remember it's top speed, other details
though but it moved well.
Jerry Dycus
Interesting! Yes, that's the sort of imaginative vehicle I
would like to see instead
of the sun raycers.
--
Lee Hart
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 2/19/07 6:09:25 PM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< Dennis, I am sure you are aware that the horsepower inside a battery is
not
the same as the horsepower out of your flywheel end or the horsepower where
the rubber meets the road. There are losses to be considered. I was using
real world figures for what the car has actually done and then used a figure
of a 40% increase in power. There is a guy named Dennis that I quote quite
frequently who made the famous statement. "The truth is in the time slip :-)
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com >>
Hi Rod and all.When the Current Eliminator set the 8,801 record she had 28
6.5ah tmf batteries capable of producing about 9hp each for 10 seconds (1.1sec
of this time was the Burnout).At that point the CE weighed 1025lbs with
me.Dialing the 8.801 into the HP equation on the Speedworld you will find that
I was
making 297 rear wheel hp and 351 flywheel hp.while only having 252 battery hp.
The truth is in the timeslip,But where in the CEs case? D. Berube
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Present claims on website for those interested.
SPECIFICATIONS NOW
Length: 13 feet, 10 inches
Width: 4 feet, 4 inches
Height: 3 feet, 6 inches
Weight: 450 lbs.
PERFORMANCE NOW
25 MPH (NIGHT): 150 Miles
35 MPH (FULL SUN): Unlimited Mileage
60 MPH (FULL SUN): 90 Miles
TOP SPEED: 70 MPH
Vehicle takes 38 feet to stop from a speed of 25 MPH
--- jerryd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi Lee, Bruce and All,
>
> ----- Original Message Follows -----
> From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Solar commuters, musings
> Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 22:27:28 -0500 (EST)
>
> >From: jerryd
> >> The solar commuter is an interesting
> problem...
> >> a simple tricycle with just a solar roof can work
> well,
> >> getting probably 15-25 mile/day...
> >> Or one can have a much more aero, faster
> vehicle
> >> run on batteries and use folding panels that can
> be
> >> orientated to the sun while parked, what it does
> most of
> >> the time... There is no reason one couldn't
> build a
> >sail/EV hybrid...
> >
> >That's the spirit!
>
> There really are many different ways,
> those were
> just the first off the top of my head. Though to be
> honest.
> I'd never build one unless it was for a contest as I
> see it
> better to design an eff EV run from plug in
> batteries for
> much less cost, more flexability, night, inclement
> weather.
>
> >
> >I tried to write the rules to encourage creativity;
> so
> >people would try *many* different approaches.
> Jerry's come
> >up with three almost immediately. I'm sure there
> are more.
> >Who knows *what* kind of vehicle would turn out the
> be the
> >best commuter? Anything from a hydrogen car to a
> horse! :-)
>
> That's pushing it Lee ;^D
> Horses went out when their feed, care, exhaust
> costs
> went above what it took to run an EV's which in the
> 1880's-1910's went to electric trucks, trolley car
> costs in
> the big cities.
>
> >-- Lee Hart
>
>
> From: Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >http://www.xlr8sun.com may have beat you to the
> punch
>
> That's Larry who helped start the Fla EAA
> who was
> at the BBB with his solarcar. I've helped him some
> over the
> yrs and there talked with him on improving his aero.
> But
> his car is large and not very practical though with
> improvements, it could work for some people. I just
> have a
> thing about driving such a low vehicle full time.
> Don't remember it's top speed, other
> details
> though but it moved well.
>
> Jerry Dycus
>
>
> Interesting! Yes, that's the sort of imaginative
> vehicle I
> would like to see instead
> of the sun raycers.
> --
> Lee Hart
>
>
>
>
>
> >
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Music Unlimited
Access over 1 million songs.
http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Its not hard. All you will need to do is find a NV3500 5 speed
transmission for a 4wd. You will also need the crossmember from a 5
speed S10 and the clutch tower. By clutch tower I mean the frame member
under the dash that has the linkage for the clutch pedal. If you find a
stick shift 4 cyl S10 you can get everything you need from it. They are
usually in the trading papers for about 800 bucks or so. I would
recommend you get a new clutch master cylinder and slave cylinder though
- you can obtain the complete assembly pre-bled and ready to bolt in
from www.LMCtrucks.com for about $190. If you want to know how to find
the transmission in your area, go to www.car-part.com and search for the
transmission for any S10 from 1990 to 1996, 4wd, manual with integrated
bellhousing. That will get you the NV3500.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 12:55
To: [email protected]
Subject: converting auto to manual trans
What's it like to convert an auto trans S10 to a manual trans S10?
2. what if it is a 4x4. that's even harder, right?,
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So.. if I was making a module with 200 cells in it (10 in series and 20
in parallel) I would want to have 20 strings of 10 in parallel then be
able to turn on and off those strings to effect balancing. In addition,
within each string I would need voltage bypass to prevent overvoltageing
cells in series.
This seems to work more toward cells of the pack ah and not massivly
paralleled small cells.
I was under the impression the Li-Ion play nicer in parallel. That a
module of 144 which is 6 series blocks of 24 parallel would only need
bypass style regulation on the 6 blocks and would be ok in parallel.
This regulation does have to be more accurate. Is this impression wrong?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
neon said "That is more like the reasonable motor limit for an ADC 8
inch motor with advanced timing"...
Well I have a 9" warp DC rebuilt by Jim husted. I would like to push it
a little harder, what should my zilla settings be?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I believe if you use (big) diodes on each series string, it prevents
the parallel strings from pumping juice into a lower voltage string
due to a shorted cell (which otherwise causes bad things to happen).
But, then you can't charge them without (for example) using relays to
reverse the diodes while charging. It all seems too ungainly to me.
How about this, just run a few thousand cells all in series, then
build a monster of a switchmode DC-DC converter to drop the the 3000V
4Ah source to 150V, 80Ah equivalent. I'm sort of joking because it's
really impractical, but in theory it'd work ;)
Bah, I think I'm just going to rob a bank and go for lithiums!
-Ian
On 20/02/2007, at 10:16 PM, Jeff Shanab wrote:
So.. if I was making a module with 200 cells in it (10 in series
and 20
in parallel) I would want to have 20 strings of 10 in parallel then be
able to turn on and off those strings to effect balancing. In
addition,
within each string I would need voltage bypass to prevent
overvoltageing
cells in series.
This seems to work more toward cells of the pack ah and not massivly
paralleled small cells.
I was under the impression the Li-Ion play nicer in parallel. That a
module of 144 which is 6 series blocks of 24 parallel would only need
bypass style regulation on the 6 blocks and would be ok in parallel.
This regulation does have to be more accurate. Is this impression
wrong?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hell Peter,
The following info is from my master mechanic:
Has the whole motor drop or shifted down in the front or rear?
Is the motor and transmission still in a parallel line with the drive line
and differential?
If motor shifted down, then your drive line angle was reduced. Also when
you replace the engine with the motor, did you maintain the same drive line
angle between the transmission yoke and differential and maintain the
clearance that the drive line yoke slides in and out in the transmission.
If you did not have enough clearance, than the yoke bottom out when the car
bounce down hard. This also causes the needle bearings in the drive line
yoke not to rotate and flatten out which could cause the noise.
In installing a motor and transmission, the same distance of the
transmission to the differential should be maintain. There should be about
1 inch clearance +- .25 in. of the transmission yoke to the transmission
case when the car is on grade.
When the a car is jack up, the yoke will slide out some of the transmission
and will not notice the on grade clearance at this time which may be too
close.
Also if you drive shaft is too much in line with the transmission and
differential (less than 1%), the needle bearings in the yoke may not rotate
as much and cause them to wear flat.
Every time the differential goes up and down while maintaining a angle of 2
percent or more, than the needle bearings rotate. If they do not rotated,
this could cause the noise.
Test:
1. Put the transmission in neutral and run the motor.
a. If no noise, then it's not in the motor.
2. Turn off the motor and measure the amount of clearance that the
output transmission yoke has with the transmission. Bounce the car
up and down and see if the transmission yoke bottom out or there
less than .25 inch clearance.
a. If it bottoms out or clearance is not at least 1/2 inch then
this could cause you noise.
3. Raise the car on a lift or jack stands and tie down the car. You
should see the the drive line slide out of transmission. This
yoke clearance at this time, should be about 3/4 to 1 inch.
4. Run the motor in each gear to see if you still have the noise.
a. If you do not have the noise, then it's because the
differential has drop down enough to slide the yoke out of
the transmission.
b. If you still have the noise, then it could be in the
transmission or a needle bearing in the drive line yokes not
rotating.
5. Stop the motor and remove the drive line and install a transmission
plastic plug in the transmission so the oil does not leak out. Run
the motor and transmission and if:
a. There is no noise, then its in the drive line or may be in
differential. (There is a crush washer that could have
flatten when you hit a hard bump)
b. If there is still a noise, than its in the transmission.
To maintain the correct motor and transmission alignment with the drive line
and differential at the correct offset angle while both the transmission and
differential are in a parallel axles with each other, it is best to take all
these measurements while the car had its engine in it, while it's on grade
and off grade.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Eckhoff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Don Crohan"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 1:27 AM
Subject: Scrapping noise
> Hello All,
>
> We have a TEAA member who hit a bad bump. The motor mount on his Geo
> metro shifted down a couple of inches. The motor - adapter plate -
> transmission connection looks solid but there is a scrapping noise
> coming from the car. We put the car on a hoist and examined the brushes
> but we could not see anything apparent.
>
> He does not want to drive it for fear of doing more damage (if the noise
> indicates damage is being done).
>
> Has anyone "been there"?
>
> I am looking for someone with a sound recorder so I can put this up on
> our web site.
>
> Peter
>
> cc Buddy Toler
> Don Crohan
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think I am following you here Dennis. You are saying you like to use the
Speedworld calculator but you are also saying that it is not reliable for
calculations on electric cars. Thus you are restating that the truth is in
the time slip and not the calculator. I totally agree!
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 4:33 AM
Subject: Re: White Zombie 11s??no 10s
In a message dated 2/19/07 6:09:25 PM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< Dennis, I am sure you are aware that the horsepower inside a battery is
not
the same as the horsepower out of your flywheel end or the horsepower
where
the rubber meets the road. There are losses to be considered. I was using
real world figures for what the car has actually done and then used a
figure
of a 40% increase in power. There is a guy named Dennis that I quote quite
frequently who made the famous statement. "The truth is in the time slip
:-)
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com >>
Hi Rod and all.When the Current Eliminator set the 8,801 record she had 28
6.5ah tmf batteries capable of producing about 9hp each for 10 seconds
(1.1sec
of this time was the Burnout).At that point the CE weighed 1025lbs with
me.Dialing the 8.801 into the HP equation on the Speedworld you will find
that I was
making 297 rear wheel hp and 351 flywheel hp.while only having 252 battery
hp.
The truth is in the timeslip,But where in the CEs case? D. Berube
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Interesting. I was in Dubai and Abu Dhabi for Christmas and even with a weak
dollar, the government subsidized gas was less than a dollar per gallon.
----- Original Message -----
From: "bruce parmenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "evlist" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 8:07 PM
Subject: EVLN(UAE wants 10k French Dassault EVs)
EVLN(UAE wants 10k French Dassault EVs)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Special_Events/10105544.html
Published: 20/02/2007 12:00 AM (UAE)
Baynuna holds negotiations with Mubadala to supply electric cars
By Mohammad Ezz Al Deen, Staff Reporter
Abu Dhabi: Abu Dhabi-based Baynuna Group is negotiating with
Mubadala Development, the capital's investment company, to supply
advanced electric cars for civilian or military usage, Baynuna's
chairman said.
Khalid Abdullah Al Bu Ainnain, Chairman of Baynuna, told Gulf
News in an interview that the group has signed a deal with a
French company to export 10,000 electric cars.
"We are cooperating with the giant French group Dassault to
produce an electric car which can operate on clean power with a
speed of 160 km/h," he said.
He said that the technology used in these cars is also used in
the aviation industry.
He gave no details about the value of the deal or the investment
in the joint project.
Al Bu Ainnain, the former chief of the UAE Air Force, said that
Baynuna will produce the engine, battery and air conditioning,
and the French company will produce the rest of the car.
"This low fuel consumption car could be used as taxis, public
transport vehicles and government cars," said Al Bu Ainnain.
"This technology can fit with any regular car, and most of the
car's systems can be converted to this electric car," he added.
"The car can be driven 8 years free of maintenance, and it needs
just 1.5 litres of gasoline to go 100 km," he said.
© Al Nisr Publishing LLC 2007. All rights reserved.
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
____________________________________________________________________________________
Get your own web address.
Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
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From: Jeff Shanab
> I was under the impression the Li-Ion play nicer in parallel...
> Is this impression wrong?
People are attracted to the idea of using large numbers of small cells to build
a high capacity battery pack. It seems easy. The problem is that there is
almost zero real-world experience, so it is a high-risk approach. Maybe it
works --maybe it doesn't.
There are three main problem areas. 1) How do you make thousands of
interconnections cheaply and reliably enough? 2) How do you insure that all
cells share the load, without over-charging or over-discharging? 3) What
happens when there is a failure; if something goes wrong?
I think an analogy might help. Suppose you need a very strong chain:
1. It could be made from a few big strong links. It is easy to make, easy
to predict its load capacity, and easy to see what happens if the weakest
link fails.
2. It could be a longer chain made with smaller links, with several strands
in parallel. If the links and chains are identical, it should be just as
strong
as #1 (for equal weights, etc).
But if the links aren't identical, then the chains aren't quite equal in
length. Ganging them all on the same hooks is liable to put *all* the load on
one chain, with the others being a bit loose. Carelessly done, this is no
stronger than any one chain; the tight one takes all the load until it breaks,
then the second tightest one takes all the load until it breaks, etc.
So, you need some way to equalize the load in every chain. For chains, there
are mechanical yokes to do this so they all share the load. This is like
putting diodes or separate controllers in each string of cells.
Or, you could make a special chain with multiple links at each point. Like a
bicycle chain that has two links between each pin, or a "silent" chain for a
camshaft that has a dozen or more links between each pin -- you get a single
chain that is really composed of many very small links that all share the load
equally. This is like a pack with many small cells in parallel, which are then
connected in series. It works well if the cells are identical; but badly if
there are differences between them.
Or, you could weave together many small strands in a complex pattern, the way
rope is made. The weave makes them share the load. This is like a pack with a
complex battery management system monitoring each cell, and regulating its
charging and discharging. Such a system is capable of providing the highest
possible strength; but at the cost of complexity and difficulty to build.
My concern is that too many people underestimate the difficulties of #2. They
just connect a bunch of cells in series/parallel and hope for the best. Well, I
wish them luck and hope for the best. But my own experience is that the are
differences between even brand-new cells, and these differences get bigger as
they age. I worry that a crude series/parallel pack will work great for a year;
but then will die (perhaps spectacularly) as things go wrong.
--
Lee Hart
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On 20 Feb 2007 at 3:27, Peter Eckhoff wrote:
> there is a scrapping noise
> coming from the car.
Well, he should tell the kids to quit scrapping. ;-)
Sorry, I couldn't resist. I knew you really meant "scraping" (with one P).
I don't understand what you mean by "the motor mount ... shifted down a
couple of inches." That could mean a lot of different things. Could you be
more specific?
Which motor mount? One of the mounts on the body structure that was
formerly attached to the ICE, or the mounting to the motor itself? What kind
of motor mount does it use, clamshell, face, or some other type?
What kind of motor does it have? Who supplied the adapter? Have you
contacted the supplier?
Does the motor make this noise when run with the transmission in neutral, or
only in gear? Does it change speed with the motor speed, or with road
speed? Is it affected by going over bumps? If you jack up the front end and
run the motor with the car in gear, do you still hear it?
How intense is the noise? Is it a scary grinding sound, or just a bit of a
rustle? Could it be just a warped or bent brake rotor?
My first inclination is to wonder if it's a CV joint or axle shaft that's been
displaced and is rubbing against a part of the underbody, or is otherwise
interfering with something.
Sorry to pop all these questions your way, but in all honesty, these kinds of
problems are relatively easy for you (or the owner) to diagnose by just
crawling under the car and listening. It's much more difficult for us to try
long
distance diagnosis when we can't see or hear the problem.
Once you know the source of the noise, then maybe we can help more.
David Roden
EVDL Administrator
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Why not just get the new Thundersky LFP lithium cells? They will most likely
be cheaper and easier than paralleling lots of NiMH cells, as long as the
cells do perform as claimed.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Hooper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 10:06 AM
Subject: Re: NiMH Batteries (was Re: Introductions)
I believe if you use (big) diodes on each series string, it prevents the
parallel strings from pumping juice into a lower voltage string due to a
shorted cell (which otherwise causes bad things to happen). But, then you
can't charge them without (for example) using relays to reverse the diodes
while charging. It all seems too ungainly to me.
How about this, just run a few thousand cells all in series, then build a
monster of a switchmode DC-DC converter to drop the the 3000V 4Ah source
to 150V, 80Ah equivalent. I'm sort of joking because it's really
impractical, but in theory it'd work ;)
Bah, I think I'm just going to rob a bank and go for lithiums!
-Ian
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I'm thinking of changing to NiMh, but I'm stopped right now because I
haven't been able to find the charge profile and any charging
temperature compensation data for the Ovonics cells.
Any list member have a reference for this data?
thanks,
Paul Wallace
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I didn't see anyone else report this. I just got email from the support
person in Valdosta with two items of interest. The first is that Lou
Magnarella is no longer at Saft. The second is that the STM5-180
batteries have been discontinued. Lou had warned me that they might
discontinue them soon. I guess now is soon.
I've asked for the details on recycling the batteries when I take mine
out of service.
Paul Wallace
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Paul,
I just replied to EVDL to Don and Noel with this exact info.
Victor
Paul Wallace wrote:
I'm thinking of changing to NiMh, but I'm stopped right now because I
haven't been able to find the charge profile and any charging
temperature compensation data for the Ovonics cells.
Any list member have a reference for this data?
thanks,
Paul Wallace
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Seems like I've been spammed, but as spam goes, this ain't too bad:
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 14:34:30 +0100
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Light Electric Vehicles - The Latest Trends
Light Electric Vehicles - The Latest Trends 20.02.2007 / ID 12905
Contents
LEV Conference just before Taipei Cycle Show
Program Overview & Highlights
More Information
LEV Conference just before Taipei Cycle Show
The LEV Conference and Meetings 2007 will be held in Hsinchu, Taiwan,
from March 20-23, 2007 just before Taipei Cycle Show. The event agenda
represents an update of the latest technological developments,
standardization, market trends and international legislation. Top
speakers from around the globe will report on their fields of
expertise.
This year, you should definitely travel to Taiwan a couple of days
before Taipei Cycle Show starts on March 24th. Why? Because the Light
Electric Vehicle Conference, which is part of the official show
program, takes place just before the show. The conference organizers
ExtraEnergy (Germany) and ITRI Industrial Technology Research Institute
(Taiwan) agreed with show manager TAITRA to hold the conference on
separate days from the show and not at the same time as in previous
years. This allows key representatives from the bicycle industry to
attend the LEV Conference without missing important business during the
show. The headquarter of ITRI in Hsinchu offers an excellent facility
for the 4-day event including speeches, discussions, display of
exhibits and test ride opportunities.
Hsinchu is convenient to reach from CKS Airport Taipei. Accommodations
are pre-registered for conference guests.
Program Overview & Highlights
20 March 2007: EnergyBus
The industry meets to to learn about and discuss the further
developlment of the EnergyBus. The standardized communication protocol
with an own plug system is expected to truly improve the functionality
and serviceability of LEV's. The protocol, the plug system
specification and the functionality of this open system will be
explained.
21 March 2007: Battery Safety
Representatives of leading manufacturers will provide an update of
battery technology available today and an outlook to future energy
storage devices. Learn all about correct battery shipment and testing
as well as liability of LEV manufacturers and distributors a key
decision point after prominent battery fires in the past.
22 March 2007: Technology
The most innovative motor, transmission sensor, power electronics, and
chip manufacturers will explain about their findings and achieved
improvements as well as future strategies. ExtraEnergy will present an
update on the 2006/07 test results.
23 March 2007: Global Market and Legislation
No other legislation will influence the future LEV design as much as
the Chinese one. This day will be a very interesting discussion
platform between representatives of the Chinese government, the
international trade audience, Bernhard Ensink of the ECF, and
legislation experts of the TUV. Overviews of the EU and US markets are
also on the agenda.
More Information
More Information about the LEV Conference
location, accommodation, Sponsoring options
(PDF download, 4.3MB)
Conference Program
(PDF download, 184 kB)
Application Form
(PDF download, 72KB)
Sponsoring Information and Application
(PDF download, 368KB)
Latest updates at www.LEVConference.org
ExtraEnergy e.V Koskauerstrasse 98 Tanna 07922
Tel: +49-36646-270 94 Fax: +49-36646-270 95 Mail:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Registry of Organizations VR 325 Country court Lobenstein/Thüringen
German VAT Id-Nr: DE238680849
President: Hannes Neupert Vice President: Johannes Dörndorfer and
Frieder Herb
Edtitor: Susanne Bruesch, SB Communications Design: Patrick Knappick
__________________________________________________
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Great video. Short but informative.
http://www.helmethairblog.com/tips-and-tricks/how-to-eliminate-emissions-on-
your-motorcycle/
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