EV Digest 6466
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: I like this drag bike better than Killacycle
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2) Re: self charging ev no preptuial motion
by "George J. Jones, Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: I like this drag bike better than Killacycle
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) air conditioning, what do you guys do?
by Tony Hwang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Contactor controllers
by Tom Gocze <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: air conditioning, what do you guys do?
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: contactor controllers (was RE: EV bashing, RE: T-105 Sitcker
Shock)
by Tom Ward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Contactor controllers
by Tom Ward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Solutions, Re: Fixing Mark's S-10 EV
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: GE EV-1 SCR Controller question
by Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Details, Re: contactor controllers
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: air conditioning, what do you guys do?
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Contactor controllers
by david woolard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: I like this drag bike better than Killacycle
by xx xx <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Trailing arm drives, Re: Fully sprung 'direct drive'
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: I like this drag bike better than Killacycle
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: I like this drag bike better than Killacycle
by "BadFishRacing" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Electric PT Cruiser Taxies
by "John O'Connor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: air conditioning, what do you guys do?
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: air conditioning, what do you guys do?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I had trouble seeing the motorcycle itself, not just the batteries.
That is one EV that people will stand up and notice!
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 2:31 AM
Subject: FW: I like this drag bike better than Killacycle
My buddy found this today.
Someone tell me its actually an electric bike.
I can't quite make out the batteries.
From: Shawn Fitzpatrick
Sent: Fri 2/23/2007 4:37 PM
To: Mike Willmon
Subject: I like this drag bike better than Killacycle
http://community.webshots.com/album/96409308RfIrlb
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Can you just post the correct link?
----- Original Message -----
From: "FRED JEANETTE MERTENS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "ev" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 8:21 PM
Subject: self charging ev no preptuial motion
a few days back we were talking about a practical ev that could run on
solar power etc and I chimed in with the self charging idea and listed a
post that others could not find . I tried my ref and got no results soooo
to try again nano institute of technology . com all one word hope this
one works better they have an interesting concept .
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Take your eyes off the girl and look at what is right in front of her, on
top of the frame - two bluetops as far as I can see on the last picture:
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1098315592026225321VNXWMN
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mike Willmon
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 11:31 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: FW: I like this drag bike better than Killacycle
My buddy found this today.
Someone tell me its actually an electric bike.
I can't quite make out the batteries.
From: Shawn Fitzpatrick
Sent: Fri 2/23/2007 4:37 PM
To: Mike Willmon
Subject: I like this drag bike better than Killacycle
http://community.webshots.com/album/96409308RfIrlb
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What do you guys do for AC? I'm thinking of getting a 1/2HP motor, running at,
I think, 1500RPM?
Would that be sufficient? I saw this auction on eBay, and this looks
interesting:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Masterflux-Sierra-13-Electric-Vehicle-AC-compressor-Kit_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6755QQihZ017QQitemZ270091839687QQrdZ1
- Tony
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There is also the option of eliminating some of the contactors with a
contactor/ big honking diode design. There are two links from the
Lucas book from the 70's listed on the Yahoo EV site.
These seem to work well. You would still need the starting resistor,
which is missing from these.
Tom
http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/oAzgRRghv9ZBgN_-
wQ5pdfAp7bWd5uYfUDM_YTZTUgywrDYTeUz7V-
E1DOL6AYUS0Q6xUEuCEmIlOCTAD_4ufIMEoQ/Page%201.jpeg
http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/oAzgRRghv9ZBgN_-
wQ5pdfAp7bWd5uYfUDM_YTZTUgywrDYTeUz7V-
E1DOL6AYUS0Q6xUEuCEmIlOCTAD_4ufIMEoQ/Page%201.jpeg
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 02:20 AM 24/02/07 -0800, Tony wrote:
What do you guys do for AC? I'm thinking of getting a 1/2HP motor, running
at, I think, 1500RPM?
Would that be sufficient? I saw this auction on eBay, and this looks
interesting:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Masterflux-Sierra-13-Electric-Vehicle-
G'day Tony
Most 'folks just get a 120 volt permanent magnet treadmill motor, and bang
the existing aircon compressor on the end or off one side with a belt, for
a lot less than $575 starting bid and bog stock standard auto aircon stuff
that any auto air mechanic knows his way around.
I'm guessing that the Ebay one is designed to be smaller and more efficient
than using a motor to drive a standard aircon, but a tad more expensive.
Hope this helps
Regards
[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Such a controller has ten SPST contactors (though it is more common to use
> three DPDT, and two SPST).
>
> Note that you don't need expensive high-voltage contactors like the Kilovacs.
> With the above setup, most of the contactors never see more than 24v, or more
> than half the motor current; this allows the use of much cheaper golf cart
> contactors.
Good morning people of the list,
first of all what a delight it was to read about Jerry Dycus' Ewoody.
More power to Jerry. If everyone had Jerry's philospohy the roads would
be much safer, and the air cleaner,.... as it is I apply Mark
Brueggemann criteria of , "would I transport my children in it?", the
answer is "no" . Maybe with some testing Jerry can convince us. Good
luck Jerry.
secondly
can anybody recommend parts (and source of) for a contact controller for
the following voltage steps
48v + startup resistor
48V
84V
168V
216V
Cost is not as important to me as ease of fabrication. It doens't have
to last for ever either.
The contactors should be switchable via a chip such as atmel AVR i.e.
atemga128 http://docwiki.gumstix.org/Robostix
Also a rheostat suitable for controlling a 120V 10A field of a sepex
motor.
thirdly
The control of field and armature voltage I envisage for a sepex
contactor controller is something like below (to accelerate to max
speed).
1.
field full, engage 48V with resistor
2.keep checking rpm and current untill either
rpm=(48-Rarmature*50)/field strenght
or current < 50A
if current is less than 50A then weaken the field strength
3. remove resistor and apply full field
4.keep checking rpm and current untill either
rpm=(84-Rarmature*50)/full field strenght
or current < 50A
if current is less than 50A then weaken the field strength
5. switch to 84V and apply full field
6.keep checking rpm and current untill either
rpm=(168-Rarmature*50)/full field strength
or current < 50A
if current is less than 50A then weaken the field strength
7. switch to 168V and apply full field
8.keep checking rpm and current untill either
rpm=(216-Rarmature*50)/full field strength
or current < 50A
if current is less than 50A then weaken the field strength
9. switch to 216V and apply full field
10.keep checking current
if current is less than 50A then weaken the field strength
The 50A could be replaced with different numbers for more aggressive
acceleration.
The current check would simply use the formula
(V-rpm*filedstrength)/Rarmature
In the formulae above field strength is scaled to account for the motor
speed being measure in RPM instaed of rad/s.
Deceleration/regen would limit the current in a similar way to the
schema for acceleration outlined above.
Am I on the right track?
Please try and find the faults with this.
Lastly
My motor is currently run at a maximum of 168V nominal on the armature
with the field at 1.2A (6000RPM). As far as I can tell from my limited
knowledg of motors the motro coudl be run at 216V nominal on the
armature with the field at a higher current and stay at the same RPM and
avoid arcing at the brushes. Is this correct? Is there anything that
might be over stressed by putting more voltage across the armature.
thanks for any Help
Tom Ward
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--- Begin Message ---
On Sat, 2007-02-24 at 05:32 -0500, Tom Gocze wrote:
> There is also the option of eliminating some of the contactors with a
> contactor/ big honking diode design. There are two links from the
> Lucas book from the 70's listed on the Yahoo EV site.
> These seem to work well. You would still need the starting resistor,
> which is missing from these.
> Tom
>
>
> http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/oAzgRRghv9ZBgNwQ5pdfAp7bWd5uYfUDM_YTZTUgywrDYTeUz7V-E1DOL6AYUS0Q6xUEuCEmIlOCTAD_4ufIMEoQ/Page%201.jpeg
>
> http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/oAzgRRghv9ZBgN_-
> wQ5pdfAp7bWd5uYfUDM_YTZTUgywrDYTeUz7V-
> E1DOL6AYUS0Q6xUEuCEmIlOCTAD_4ufIMEoQ/Page%201.jpeg
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Mark and All,
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: Mark Brueggemann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Fixing Mark's S-10 EV
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 21:39:49 -0800 (PST)
>--- jerryd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>Hi Jerry;
>
>> I'd start by replacing the cab, front with an RX-7
>> front 1/2, saving about 500lbs, next replace the bed with
>> a composite aero one, saving about another 125 lbs.
>
>I agree with your weight estimates, but somehow I don't
>think an RX-7 would fit over what's already there.
Unless your weight included cargo, passengers, the
higher est of weight, 1100 lbs saving, has to be or where is
that 3,000 lbs it weighs without batts?
As far as it fitting, that's the point, being a
smaller aero drag, weight. You may need to use different
rims to bring the wheels inward some. And I have seen an
RX-7 body on a pickup chassis though an ICE.
An
>S-10 front clip/cab is a lot taller. It would be a
>difficult retrofit, if even possible.
Why?
Why does the old height matter except to increase
drag? You are completely replacing it with a matching
composite aero bed in my version. All you need to do is
match the wheelwells to the front wheels, lower the steering
wheel and let the rest fall where it does. And as I said
above, it's been done already.
I'm not sure if you notice how you shoot everything
down people are suggesting, many times with spurious
arguements that have litle bearing on the problem?
The idea of an RX-7
>pickup conjurs an interesting image, I'll grant you
>that.
Looks are important along with it's 25% lower
weight, aero drag, leading to a 37% or so range improvement
is hard to ignore if one is complaining on the high cost of
batteries. The question is do you want to solve your problem
or keep complaining?
You asked for solutions, here several are. As they
say, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him
drink!
>
>
>> Your EV weighs 4600 lb - 1600 lbs batteries weighs
>> 3000 lbs.
>
>It did with T-125's. About 4150 with T105's. I think
>your original weight estimate is closer to being correct.
The body/chassis/bed still weighs 3000 lbs and the
savings is still 1100lbs at least.
>
>This might be a grand idea if you're building from the
>ground up, but this is a running vehicle.
Keeping it the same and expecting it to get better is
not reality.
Seems you'd
>be better off scrapping the S-10 and building an RX-7
>EV with the parts, no?
No, your need was a pick up so that's what my
solution was.
Though I don't understand why many don't have eff
small EV's or even ICE cars and use a trailer for large
loads. I'll carry 1500lbs of almost anything with a trailer
behind the Freedom EV. Even the underpowered Ewoody towed
600 lbs in it's trailer. Look for solutions, not problems.
I understand where you're coming
>from and pretty much agree with your assesments, but
>I think it would be a lot more work to retro an RX-7
>body onto an S-10 frame then just make a lighter, better
>aero EV out of the RX-7 to begin with.
Considering what you gain in a more practical EV and
lower battery, EV drive costs it's easily worth it. Mostly
the problems are electrical which as a Ham you should be
able to handle. I love your dual meter design!! Now take
that same innovation spirt to the rest of your EV.
I hear the early RX-7 is too light to carry much
battery weight but that's good if you have a heavier chassis
to put it on as you do. Maybe when Li-ions become cheap it
will make a good long range EV as light, fairly aero.
Another solution would be to convert an old Datsun,
PUP, Luv, ect pickups that start out with gas stuff under
2,000lbs so probably strips to 12-1400lbs. They are great
weight carriers, outcarrying American pick ups of twice the
weight. I use to work in a rock, sand supply company then
and the quickly became obvious.
>
>
>> to be honest, pick ups are not known for safety either.
>
>Lots safer than wood and epoxy trikes, methinks.
See what I mean about shooting things down?
I've addressed the safety issues in the Freedom EV
where it's probably as safe as an S-10 or a compact car.
Even the Ewoody totaled a compact car that rearended it at a
25 mph closing speed, I was doing 40 mph. I walked away
unhurt though pissed. But lightyrs safer than a MC you think
alright to drive.
>
>Something I should mention is I'm kind of a stickler on
>the safety aspect of EV's. I would probably never do
>as you propose, even if it was mechanically possible
>because you're severely compromising the crash integrity
>of the vehicle. I suppose a roll cage is an option,
>but not terribly practical in a daily driver. I know
>you're a big fan of lightweight ultra efficient EV's,
>but I don't see them as practical transportation.
Let's see, you drive a MC and think the Freedom EV
is not safe? It's that kind of thinking that got you into
your expensive EV mess.
Meanwhile I get 100 mile range with 1/2 your
battery pack, EV drive at around $.04/mile for batts,
electricity in a I'd bet as safe all round EV.
The Freedom EV has a very strong rollcage built
into the skin similar to the Corvette's transverse composite
single leaf springs, large crush spaces as it's the size of
a compact car, ect, that with 4 point seat belts should give
excellent safety.
The
>common sense check I use is, is this vehicle something
>I would entrust the lives of my son or daughter to?
>It's one thing if you want to assume that risk personally
>(as I do riding a motorcycle) but I wouldn't endorse
>building ultralights as a transportation solution.
If I was building an ultralight the Freedom EV
would weigh 1/2 what it does. That extra weight, size is for
safety systems. It's only ultralight compared to the ineff,
overweight junk they sell, you converted.
It's
>bad enough on the roads as it is, and in a homebrew you
>don't stand a chance in the event of even a minor
>collision.
That's your opinion. Others know better that they
can be done right.
Then why did the compact car get totaled by the
Ewoody and it only cost $40 to get back on the road?? And
the Freedom EV is at least 4x's stronger safety wise.
Does it hurt when SUV's rollover in single car
accidents or pickups crashing when they spin out? It happens
almost every day here in Fla usually with deaths.. Is that
safe? Rollover is almost impossible in the Freedom EV and
handling is as good as it gets of ANY vehicle, much, much
better than a pick up.
Safety takes many forms and weight can hurt as
well as help. I use most parts for several reasons to give
better performance without excess weight. It's what a good
designer, engineer should do. KIS
And, I don't think it does a lot for the image
>of EV's when the public sees you riding around in a
>science project.
Assuming your talking the Ewoody it doesn't seem
to faze people as they love it and want it despite it being
funky or maybe because of it.
Why the Freedom EV is taking so long is to get it
looking professional, doing it right.
Just my opinion though (as if everyone
>hasn't heard enough of mine already).
Again you try to shoot things down by bringing in
spurious subjects. I assume you would do things right if you
did the mod to your EV.
To paraphrase John Lennon, 'There are no problems,
only solutions'.
Thanks though for showing so well why lighter, more
eff EV's are so much better, cost effective vs the lead
mines most conversions make. Many times less is more and in
EV's that's truely the case. EV's can take on ICE's in cost
effectiveness and beat the pants off them if one works at it
with an open mind.
KIS,
Jerry Dycus
>
>Mark Brueggemann
>Albuquerque, NM
>S-10 EV
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> NiMH batteries). My GE EV-1 has 96v series/48v parallel
> modes. Here's my question. In 96 mode, the power fluctuates
> after a couple of minutes, just dropping out when giving the
> controller a lot of volts---3/4 throttle. Power is restored
> and operates normally when I switch to 48v parallel mode.
> Could it be that the Controller is getting too much voltage
> when in series mode, and drops out for that reason? I've
> checked all the connections, and can't find anything loose.
Check your pack voltage when in 96V mode and the powre fluctuates. My
suspicion is that you may have a weak cell(s) and they are having
trouble keeping up with the high peak current that the EV-1 controller
is trying to demand of them.
Varying the thtottle position does not vary the voltage that the
controller is subjected to; that is the controller sees full pack
voltage when your foot is off the throttle and sees about the same
voltage (a bit to a lot less due to battery sag and IR drop in the
wiring) at full throttle. So, the problem is not/cannot be too much
voltage when stepping on the throttle.
Dropping the pack to 48V parallel mode does two things: for a given
motor speed, the peak current demanded by the controller is less, and
it
is divided between two strings of batteries so each sees only half (in
theory) the demanded current.
If one of the strings has one or more bad cells, it may supply little
of
the load current, but now it is out of the way so that "good" string
can
supply the required current. With all the cells in series, one or more
weak/dead cells will limit the performance more noticably.
Cheers,
Roger.
I don't think this is the issue. It could be, but not in this case.
I've had countless of these EV-1's in 5 different cars.
My experience is two fold. Yes, they can go full power when you don't expect
it (which if the safety is working means no power). Three different situations
I have seen.
1. In testing the 92 Festiva, I was only using a 12 V batt. On the 1H3 card
24-48 V, no problem. It works fine. When using the 24 - 84 V 5H9 card, it
does what Roger is saying, even on 24 V. There is not enough voltage due to
sag. The thing goes low, the signals get messed up, and you get full power and
or trip the PMT. In the 93 Festiva, I had the same problem. If I ran the pack
very low, even with my 96 V pack, it could flip out the controller. Step on
the accelerator hard with a weak pack and you will get a very unpleasant
surprise.
2. If the pot box is "flakey" and at any time you get a brief short across
the pot input. You better hold on for dear life. If it gives "0" to the EV-1,
there is no telling what will happen. But, in all cases, you aren't going to
be happy. I've seen it just plain fault out. Other times, I have seen it go
full power.
3. Wet, damp conditions. The EV-1 is an open chasis unit. Be careful.
Moisture is not your friend. On last Thursday, I tried to drive the 93 Festiva
and it was a little damp. It probably doesn't help that I have no grill and
the controller is right behind the big opening. Well, I got < 1/4 mile. Hit
the acc just briefly (which engages the start sw). FULL POWER!!! Happend 2x.
I took the car home and said, well, I guess I'll be taking that one out. By
the way, the car is "ripping fast" when it goes full power, even in 2nd gear.
Seriously, hold on for your life. That tells me that if I had the 1A bypass
working correctly, I would have one very fast car.
Finally, adjusting it wrong, c/a too high, max current too high, etc. Using
too high of a voltage (I am using 96 V on an 84 V controller). I just don't
know.
Either way, the PMT should trip. That is a "safe failure", but it still
leaves you in the middle of traffic with a "stalled out EV" until you can get
it restarted very quickly. The 007 by the way, literally destroyed the main
SCR when it went full power, even though the PMT did trip. I guess just not
fast enough. That was on 120 V.
Just my thoughts and experience.
Again, I can not state enough. Have safety's in place. Don't remove the
clutch on any DC system (my personal opinion). You are just asking for this to
happen, and someday it will! Have several disconnects. Use the safety
features of the controller - PMT trip. And don't use stuff as it wasn't
intended.
Sometimes it just makes sense to get the good stuff, i.e. Zilla 1k. No
matter how much it costs, it's less than rebuilding your EV when you go out of
control and crash into a pole or barrier wall. This by the way hasn't happened
to me in a long time. I have a clutch and safety's in place. But, in 1998, I
did hit a barrier wall when my DC car went full power, and I couldn't get it
off. Roasted the motor and controller and messed up the front some. That was
the last time I drove that one. It pays to be safe. Ever since, I don't take
chances with my EV's. Safety first.
Steve
---------------------------------
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Lee and All,
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>From: Jack Murray
>>I've been thinking of giving this a try, I got in the new
>>$64 kilovac contactor, looks good, at that price you can
>>use three or four of them, and use the micro to turn them
>>on/off. The question is how much noise do they make, and
>how fast will they wear out using them this way?
>
>Contactors built for EV service are usually rated for
>100,000 operations at rated load, and 1,000,000 operations
>at light load. This is many years of daily driving.
>
>They typically make a distinct "click" when they pull in,
>and "clunk" when they drop out. You'll hear it if they are
>mounted in the open, or as something that acts as a
>sounding board; but they're pretty quiet in an electrical
>box (and you shouldn't be leaving them out in the open
>anyway, due to the shock hazard).
>
>>It will definitely require having a battery balancing
>>charger because the lower voltage bats in the pack are
>>going to drain a lot more than the higher voltage bats.
>
>Contactor controllers normally wire the batteries in series
>and parallel combinations, so you always have all of them
>carrying an equal part of the load. This also means *less*
>battery management is needed (at least with lead-acid),
>because when they are in parallel they automatically tend
>to equalize the charge between them.
>
>A typical setup might have eight 12v batteries, which can
>be wired as:
>
> - 4 groups of 2 in series, for 24v
> - 2 groups of 4 in series, for 48v
> - all eight in series, for 96v
>
>Such a controller would have 5 steps:
>
>1. off
>2. 24v with starting resistor in series (to start motor
>without a jerk) 3. 24v direct to motor
>4. 48v to motor
>5. 96v to motor
I like a slightly different version. Using a 96vdc
pack and field weakening,
1. off
2. parallel 48vdc with resistor or 2 resistors steps
3. 48vdc straight
4. 48vdc FW or 2 FW steps
5. 96vdc straight
6. 96vdc FW or 2 FW
For the 6 speed version takes 3 spst for
series/parallel, 1 resistor shorting spst, one FW spst for 5
contactors. Or 7 contactors for the 9 speed version.
As Tom mentioned , 2 S/P contactors can be replaced
by big honkin diodes.
If 2 motors are used, they can be S/P too.
I like FW because it allows steps inbetween the S/P
jump and increases power, rpm at full speed from a lower
voltage pack.
On a 100 amp rated motor to make FW I use a
contactor to short a 12gge solid copper wire 1' long across
the field terminals for about 50% FW. This, once your top
speed is reached without it, gives what feels like a passing
gear. It also allows to use gear more without sacrificing
top speed. Most EV motor can do 6,000 rpm safely. It even
makes it easier on them to gear more.
In the Ewoody when I had to drop to 36vdc the speed
also dropped to 45mpg instead of 60 mph on 48vdc. So I used
the 1' of 12gge to FW it, giving me the 60 mph top speed
again.
Since there is more gearing, the current draw for
acceleration is less, important on direct drive especially
lowering the stress on the GC batts.
A 1/4 FW would give another 2 speeds for just 1 more
contactor.
I also like to have one big honkin contactor very
overated for emergency cut off though a good ciruit breaker
would do that. Also the S/P contactors can do that but I
like a backup.
Sizing the starting resistor/s is very important to
get right for smooth starts. GC's use a resistor board,
about $15, with 3 on them that by paralleling, you can use
to about a 2,000 lb EV or using 2 of them for higher EV
weights. Or make your own from SS wire, bar. They can be
used for FW too.
.
>
>Such a controller has ten SPST contactors (though it is
>more common to use three DPDT, and two SPST).
>
>Note that you don't need expensive high-voltage contactors
>like the Kilovacs. With the above setup, most of the
>contactors never see more than 24v, or more than half the
>motor current; this allows the use of much cheaper golf
>cart contactors. --
That depends on you cont current draw as I found out
on the Ewoody. The GC ones can handle about 60 amps only
cont and the Ewoody drew 100-150 amps which popped them
regularly including one time full on!! Thus I now use 3
failsafes, s/p contactor neutral, big contactor, fuse or CB
to keep my pants clean. This also mean that if you carry a
couple spares, you don't have to send the E controller off
to be repaired with the downtime, cost that entails. Even if
you have an EC, a simple CC can get you home with just a few
more parts. FW works with most EC's too.
Luckily I could replace them in just a few minutes, a
great quality of CC ;^D
I replaced them with 100 amp Curtis SW80's bought
surplus for the same price GC contactors were and never had
another contactor problem.
And of course a handy person could make a manual CC
at a much lower cost with some contacts, copper bars and
springs as most the early EV's used.
CC are about 800-1200 amp peak power so blow most e
controllers away power wise at a much lower cost.
There are many ways to cut EV costs if one keeps an
open mind and not infected with gagetitis.
Same with battery chargers but that's another story.
KIS
Jerry Dycus
>Lee Hart
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I cut a sunroof in the top of my car
(www.sunroofdoctor.html) and use convection, but I'm
not in an area with high humidity.
peace,
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
____________________________________________________________________________________
Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Tom, could you repost those links through tinyurl
please? I can't get those long strings to work, and
i'm quite interested in seeing them. I'm sure my
webmail is sneaking in extra dashes somewhere.
http://tinyurl.com/
Cheers
DaveW
___________________________________________________________
Copy addresses and emails from any email account to Yahoo! Mail - quick, easy
and free. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/trueswitch2.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
All I see is pink! ;^p Actually in some other shots
it looks as if there are different batteries:
http://image03.webshots.com/3/0/97/18/96409718qGhCOB_ph.jpg?track_pagetag=/page/photo/rides/motorcycles&track_action=/ViewActions/FullSize
--- Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Take your eyes off the girl and look at what is
> right in front of her, on
> top of the frame - two bluetops as far as I can see
> on the last picture:
>
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1098315592026225321VNXWMN
>
>
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private:
> http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD#
> 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Second Life:
>
www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Mike Willmon
> Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 11:31 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: FW: I like this drag bike better than
> Killacycle
>
> My buddy found this today.
> Someone tell me its actually an electric bike.
> I can't quite make out the batteries.
>
> From: Shawn Fitzpatrick
> Sent: Fri 2/23/2007 4:37 PM
> To: Mike Willmon
> Subject: I like this drag bike better than
> Killacycle
>
>
> http://community.webshots.com/album/96409308RfIrlb
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Want to start your own business?
Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Don and All,
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Fully sprung 'direct drive' (was: Regenerative
suspension)
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 22:23:37 -0800
>HI-
>why not replace the swing arm pivot with the motor it's
>self. press into the arm.a custom double end shaft with
>long enough bearing surfaces to hold two bearings on each
>end of the motor. then attach the swing arm to the outer
>bearings. FT.
Corbin has a patent on that but the problems the
Sparrow has and added friction makes it not that good. Myers
has a better replacement though costly.
On the Ewoody I used a spring tension adjuster on a
chain but that isn't a good solution either though worked
with some hassle.
Best is just putting your motor shaft inline with the
swing arm pivot. Gates Polychains are suppose to be set up
loose as it uses centrifical? force to tighten it as per
Gates instructions. If set tight it will bust the motor,
axle shafts, bearing, ect as the Sparrow people have found
out, not having any adjustments. I'll adjust at the motor
mount.
In order to put the motor shaft inline with the
pivot, you need to lower the motor below the body some if
you want a low pivot point. I'll make a compromise with my
6.7" motor/s 2" below the body and the pivot point 1.75"
above the body bottom with skid guards in front of, under
the motor/s in case it bottoms out on a curb, ect. Or put
an ilder pully on the pivot which can be part of a double
reduction to make the wheel sprocket smaller, less costly,
heavy at the cost of a little eff due to 2 belts/chains if
you have adjustments at the wheel axle.
I'll be using a composite polychain sprocket I've
made on the wheel to cut weight, cost, though steel at the
primary to cut wear..
In lightweight vehicles, unspung weight is a big
factor and why I don't put the motor on the swingarm, even
close to the pivot point despite it's appeal.
As for as power raising the chassis, it's hard to
avoid but I didn't find it at all objectionable and
probably unavoidable. It's due to the lever from the axle to
the ground twisting the trailing arm up rather than the
chain torque effect though its probably semantics.
In my rear end crash by the compact car, when the car
hit the rear wheel because of the angle the pivot was, it
forced the Ewoody to rise in the rear, forcing the car under
it instead of running thru it and probably saved my butt
from serious injury as designed. So design the rear wheel
into your crash system, it's tire is designed to take a
beating.
Did I mention the trailing are was built from
wood/epoxy and survived the hit and getting caught under the
car? Only needing a couple of alum pivot brackets to use
again. Show just how strong wood/epoxy can be ;^D
I never had braking forcing the front down probably
because my CG is so low at 12" so litle weight above the
roll center to transfer. Which is good because the front was
only 4" off the ground due to battery weight!!
Michael, give me a call sometime, would be great to
talk to you again. E mail first so I know when to be there.
Jerry Dycus
813-671-3059
>
>
>> [Original Message]
>> From: Michael Perry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: <[email protected]>
>> Date: 2/23/2007 9:25:00 PM
>> Subject: Re: Fully sprung 'direct drive' (was:
>>Regenerative suspension)
>> How do you avoid squat? That's one of the considerations
>on most MC's. Even
>> using drive shafts, bikes do squat under power. It's even
>> worse when full power is reversed... something 2 wheel
>>MC's don't encounter.
>> As you say, hub motors don't have this problem, since the
>thrust is against
>> the center shaft. What you get there, even with bicycle
>sized rigs, is that
>> the forks must be strong enough to withstand the torque.
>> A bike with standard forks may not be strong enough to
>withstand even the small force of
>> accelerating a bicycle. The hub may actually spread the
>> fork and escape. (Nothing so much fun as having a front
>> hub motor escape, leaving your with front forks digging
>> into the pavement at 25MPH!) ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
>> <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007
>> 8:58 PM Subject: Fully sprung 'direct drive' (was:
>>Regenerative suspension)
>>
>> > Actually that is to be avoided at all costs. You must
>> > maintain balanced forces or the power will effect the
>> > suspension and make it almost undriveable.
>> >
>> > Even on moutain bikes with rear suspension, pains are
>> > taken to make sure the tension on tha chain doesn't
>> > cause a squat or a hiking of the suspension.
>>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What motorcycle? ;)
> I had trouble seeing the motorcycle itself, not just the batteries.
> That is one EV that people will stand up and notice!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 2:31 AM
> Subject: FW: I like this drag bike better than Killacycle
>
> My buddy found this today.
> Someone tell me its actually an electric bike.
> I can't quite make out the batteries.
>
> From: Shawn Fitzpatrick
> Sent: Fri 2/23/2007 4:37 PM
> To: Mike Willmon
> Subject: I like this drag bike better than Killacycle
>
>
> http://community.webshots.com/album/96409308RfIrlb
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
> security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
> across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This bike belonged to Raymond Knight. He may have been on the list before,
but I haven't heard anything from him in a while. I've met Raymond, and
discussed getting some heads up racing together. He's in Brantford ON.
The bike you see is Whispering Lightning. It had the NEDRA MT/J record for
a while. That was retaken by Brian Hall a few years ago.
Well, I won't spoil it all for you. This bike is retired. A new and
improved one is under contstruction.
Check out more details at http://www.svapowerproducts.com/html/index.html
Darin
BadFishRacing
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Willmon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 2:31 AM
Subject: FW: I like this drag bike better than Killacycle
My buddy found this today.
Someone tell me its actually an electric bike.
I can't quite make out the batteries.
From: Shawn Fitzpatrick
Sent: Fri 2/23/2007 4:37 PM
To: Mike Willmon
Subject: I like this drag bike better than Killacycle
http://community.webshots.com/album/96409308RfIrlb
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.412 / Virus Database: 268.18.3/698 - Release Date: 2/23/2007
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Friends from my old California neighborhood pointed out that their
local transportation management association will start running 2 EV
taxies.
Supposedly made by Hybrid Technologies, Inc. in North Carolina.
max speed of 80 MPH with a range of 120 miles with a lithium-ion pack.
Here is a link to their newsletter announcing the cars.
http://www.stli.com/newsletter/create/NNTMA.asp?issue_id=324
I'll have to take a ride when we go back for a visit.
John
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Most 'folks just get a 120 volt permanent magnet
> treadmill motor,
I have new treadmill motors, $20 plus $10 shipping
(US).
Let me know if you need more info.
Rod
--- James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 02:20 AM 24/02/07 -0800, Tony wrote:
> >What do you guys do for AC? I'm thinking of getting
> a 1/2HP motor, running
> >at, I think, 1500RPM?
> >
> >Would that be sufficient? I saw this auction on
> eBay, and this looks
> >interesting:
> >
>
>http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Masterflux-Sierra-13-Electric-Vehicle-
>
> G'day Tony
>
> Most 'folks just get a 120 volt permanent magnet
> treadmill motor, and bang
> the existing aircon compressor on the end or off one
> side with a belt, for
> a lot less than $575 starting bid and bog stock
> standard auto aircon stuff
> that any auto air mechanic knows his way around.
>
> I'm guessing that the Ebay one is designed to be
> smaller and more efficient
> than using a motor to drive a standard aircon, but a
> tad more expensive.
>
> Hope this helps
>
> Regards
>
> [Technik] James
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am just testing these treadmill motors on my test bench to see what loads
they can pull, rpm limits, voltage input and ampere.
The maximum rated voltage is 130 volts at 2.75 hp peak.
They are rated at 100 volts at 1.75 hp continuous at 8000 rpm.
Maximum rated amperes is 22 amps.
The 8000 rpm is too fast for running a load generator which makes the belts
hot.
The following is the results of the tests at no loads.
Bat No Load No Load No Load Load Generator
Size Volts Amps Rpm* Rpm**
90 98 5 7000 5700
84 89.6 4.8 6600 5077
78 83.2 4.5 6200 4670
72 76.7 4.3 5700 4385
66 70.5 4.2 5320 4090
60 63.7 4 4830 3715
54 57.5 3.7 4250 3270
48 51.2 3.5 3880 2985
42 44.5 3.3 3278 2521
36 37.8 3.2 2787 2143
30 31.8 3.1 2305 1773
24 25.4 3 1807 1390
18 18.9 2.8 1308 1013
12 12.6 2.5 825 634
* The drive pulley on the thread mill motors or 2.5 inch diameter while the
load generator ** is 3.25 inch in diameter.
A air conditional compressor has about 5 inch diameter, so the this is about
2 to 1 ratio so the compressor would be 1/2 the rpm of the
drive motors.
These thread mill motors have a weak front bearing holder plate which is
made out of a thin sheet metal. The bearing and shaft will move in the
direction the belt is pulling it, making the rotor scrapping against the
field magnets.
Knowing this in advance, I install a 1/4 inch aluminum plate that is tight
fitting over the front face plate and another one behind it over the motor.
Use a U-Mount motor mount so you can bolt these aluminum plates to it. I
made these plates large enough, so I can use it to mount to a adjustable
accessory frame.
You have to pull the armature out anyway to have it key for a pulley to
match the belt for your compressor or any other unit you want to drive.
I am going to run a pair of these motors gang together for a 3.50 hp.
I only tested out the gang motors at 48 volts which draw 7 amps running a
14.8 v generator at about 25 amps.
I plan to use a voltage of 36 to 42 volts to these motors off my 180 volt
battery pack. Now is to find a DC-DC converter circuit for this.
A voltage divider does not work good on motors, because the motor voltage
keep changing with the load.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Massey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 3:36 AM
Subject: Re: air conditioning, what do you guys do?
> At 02:20 AM 24/02/07 -0800, Tony wrote:
> >What do you guys do for AC? I'm thinking of getting a 1/2HP motor,
> >running
> >at, I think, 1500RPM?
> >
> >Would that be sufficient? I saw this auction on eBay, and this looks
> >interesting:
> >
> >http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Masterflux-Sierra-13-Electric-Vehicle-
>
> G'day Tony
>
> Most 'folks just get a 120 volt permanent magnet treadmill motor, and bang
> the existing aircon compressor on the end or off one side with a belt, for
> a lot less than $575 starting bid and bog stock standard auto aircon stuff
> that any auto air mechanic knows his way around.
>
> I'm guessing that the Ebay one is designed to be smaller and more
> efficient
> than using a motor to drive a standard aircon, but a tad more expensive.
>
> Hope this helps
>
> Regards
>
> [Technik] James
>
>
--- End Message ---
