EV Digest 6469
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) EVLN(Bush: "EVs that don't have to look like golf carts")
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: I like this drag bike better than Killacycle
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) EVLN(Ebay sells unuseable hybrid carpool stickers)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Fully sprung 'direct drive' (was: Regenerative suspension)
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) EVLN(Toyota developing nextgen hybrid li-ion batteries)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) EVLN(Bush looks at Phoenix Motorcar EV)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) EVLN(TH!NK seeking Euro and U.S. markets)-long
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) EVLN(200 China nEVs for Los Angeles-based Miles Automotive)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Bush checks out Phoenix SUT.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: I like this drag bike better than Killacycle
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: FW: I like this drag bike better than Killacycle
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Solutions, Re: Fixing Mark's S-10 EV
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Fully sprung 'direct drive' (was: Regenerative suspension)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Switched SCR controller, Was: Contactor Controller
by "Chris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Chassi - Pack isolation
by "Ted Sanders" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: "electric" emblem
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: EVLN(Ebay sells unuseable hybrid carpool stickers)
by JS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: air conditioning, what do you guys do?
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Switched SCR controller, Was: Contactor Controller
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Solutions, Re: Fixing Mark's S-10 EV
by Frank John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: EV bashing, RE: T-105 Sitcker Shock
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Bush: "EVs that don't have to look like golf carts")
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.centredaily.com/128/story/23449.html
Posted on Fri, Feb. 23, 2007
President Bush checks out battery-powered autos
By From asap - The Associated Press
[
http://media.centredaily.com/smedia/2007/02/23/14/340-BUSH.sff.standalone.prod_affiliate.42.jpg
Charles Dharapak
President Bush speaks to reporters on the South Lawn of the White
House in Washington Friday, Feb. 23, 2007, after watching a
demonstration of alternative fuel automobiles. At left is a
plug-in hybrid vehicle using a lithium power battery by A123
Systems, and at right is a fully electric vehicle by Phoenix
Motorcars.]
[
http://media.centredaily.com/smedia/2007/02/23/13/350-BUSH.sff.standalone.prod_affiliate.42.jpg
President Bush, center, listens to Dave Vieau, president and
chief executive officer of A123 Systems, right, as he is shown a
plug-in hybrid vehicle utilizing a lithium power battery during a
demonstration of alternative fuel automobiles, Friday, Feb. 23,
2007, on the South Lawn of the White House in Washington.]
WASHINGTON -- A hybrid car is energizing President Bush.
Bush peered under the hood of an all-electric sport utility truck
parked at the White House Friday to stress that his goal of
reducing gasoline use by 20 percent over the next decade is
realistic.
"I firmly believe that the goal I laid out - that Americans will
use 20 percent less gasoline over the next 10 years - is going to
be achieved, and here's living proof of how we're going to get
there," Bush said on the South Lawn after examining the SUV and a
car that had a battery tucked in its trunk.
Bush's energy proposals, made in his State of the Union address
last month, include ramping up the production of alternative
fuels such as ethanol made from new, non-corn feedstocks. The
proposal calls on Congress to require the annual use of 35
billion gallons of ethanol and other alternative fuels such as
biodiesel by 2017, a fivefold increase over current
requirements.
White House aides said the sharp increase in alternative fuels
and technological changes, including the use of more gas-electric
hybrid cars, will cut projected gasoline demand by 20 percent
over the next decade.
MAKE AND MODEL
The hybrid car that Bush inspected had a high-power lithium-ion
battery made by A123 Systems of Watertown, Mass. It can power the
car for about 40 miles and recharge in five hours. The white
truck, made by Phoenix Motorcars Inc. of Ontario, Calif., has a
range of 130 miles and can be recharged in about 10 minutes with
a rapid-charging unit or trickle-charged overnight with its
onboard charger.
Copyright 2007 The Centre Daily Times All Rights Reserved
===
http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=sci_tech&id=5062639
Bush Checks Out Hybrid Cars WASHINGTON (AP) - February 23, 2007 -
[...]
"We're going to be driving our cars using all kinds of different
fuels other than gasoline, and using batteries that will be able
to be recharged in vehicles that don't have to look like golf
carts," Bush said after meeting with business leaders and
scientists who believe there is a market for automobiles that use
high-tech batteries.
The hybrid car that Bush inspected had a high-power lithium-ion
battery made by A123 Systems of Watertown, Mass. It can power the
car for about 40 miles and recharge in five hours. The white
truck, made by Phoenix Motorcars Inc. of Ontario, Calif., has a
range of 130 miles and can be recharged in about 10 minutes with
a rapid-charging unit or trickle-charged overnight with its
onboard charger.
"It's the same thing you plug your electric dryer into," said
Bryon Bliss, vice president of sales with Phoenix Motorcars.
"My wife, she gets out with our kids during the week and I swear
she could drive all week on this vehicle on one charge. She goes
to the grocery stores, go to the zoo with the kids and such, but
she doesn't go that far," he said.
(Copyright 2007 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)
Copyright ©2007 ABC Inc., WPVI-TV Philadelphia.
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check.
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--- Begin Message ---
Seems that WL might have better weight distribution. Lawrence Rhodes.....
> From: Shawn Fitzpatrick
> Sent: Fri 2/23/2007 4:37 PM
> To: Mike Willmon
> Subject: I like this drag bike better than Killacycle
>
>
> http://community.webshots.com/album/96409308RfIrlb
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Ebay sells unuseable hybrid carpool stickers)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/local/16760399.htm
Posted on Thu, Feb. 22, 2007email thisprint thisreprint or license
this
Want a carpool sticker you can't use?
By Leslie Griffy Mercury News
Who would spend $10,000 on a carpool sticker that's illegal to
use?
Nobody, apparently.
Less than a month after the Department of Motor Vehicles ran out
of the yellow key-shaped stickers that allow hybrid cars into the
carpool lane, one entrepreneur tried to sell a spare sticker set
on eBay.
The six-day online auction started at $10,000 and the seller, who
didn't respond to e-mails today seeking comment, didn't receive a
single bid.
Probably because the posting included this caveat:
``If you buy them, you can't use them.''
State law prevents the stickers from being transferred, because
DMV registers them to the car, not the driver.
According to the posting, the seller decided to sell the sticker
set -- they come in packs of four -- because she received two
sets and only has one hybrid car.
The green-friendly aren't the only people looking to make some
cash off the popular stickers. Also on eBay are look-alike
stickers marketed to fans of gas-gulping muscle cars, noting big
engine cars might not get special privileges but adding that
their owners prefer power over perks.
``Access denied,'' they read, ``California hasn't neutered me.''
Contact Leslie Griffy at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or (408)
920-5945.
===
http://search.ebay.com/carpool_W0QQfkrZ1QQfromZR8QQsatitleZQ22carpoolQ22QQsubmitsearchZSearch
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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The fish are biting.
Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.
http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php
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--- Begin Message ---
yeah I've seen the tango and watched the videos to show they won't tip
over. a cool car, but I don't like the idea of having to talk to your
passenger sitting behind you. And they ain't gonna narrow all the roads
to fit two abreast any time soon.
But you can narrow a car and still fit two seats abreast, a bench seat,
then you get comfy with your passenger.
Jack
Lee Hart wrote:
From: Jack Murray
http://www.digitalbiker.com/bugwing.htm
That is SO COOL! I've thought of narrowing a stock vehicle and
dismissed it too much work for little gain, but this bug really looks
good narrowed. No reason to make it 3-wheel though, could just
as much make it 4-wheel.
Yes, it looks great. Have you seen Rick Woodbury's Tango EV? It's a 2-seat
4-wheel car that's only 3 feet wide! You'd think it would be tipsy, but with
half a ton of lead ballast (the batteries) located at the bottom, it's more
stable than most cars.
Wouldn't it be fun to narrow a VW bug, and *keep* all 4 wheels? :-) The type of
suspension the old bugs had might make this unusually easy.
--
Lee Hart
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Toyota developing nextgen hybrid li-ion batteries)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/07_10/b4024075.htm
MARCH 5, 2007 THE CORPORATION
Online Extra: Toyota's Bid for a Better Battery
CEO Watanabe confirms that Toyota will develop new lithium-ion
batteries for its third-generation hybrids
It's easy to see why Toyota's image as an environmentally
friendly auto maker has gotten a bit scuffed up of late. The
Japanese carmaker's recent focus on bigger, faster autos has made
it an easy target for green groups.
At the North American International Auto Show in January, for
instance, Toyota (TM ) unveiled the all-new Tundra (see
BusinessWeek.com, 01/30/07, "First Drive: 2007 Toyota Tundra")
pickup, its biggest truck ever, and the FT-HS, a 400-horsepower
concept car that uses the company's hybrid system to help propel
it from 0-60 in four seconds. Small surprise, then, that
environmentalists were complaining that it was more about
performance for Toyota than ecology.
New versions of the Highlander and Sequoia sport-utility
vehicles, meanwhile, will also be bigger and heavier than their
predecessors. "That's not terribly green," says Kurt Sanger, an
analyst at Macquarie Securities in Tokyo. "Toyota's fuel economy
remains relatively good, but it's not getting better with the new
products" (see BusinessWeek.com, 2/7/07, "Going Young at Chicago
Auto Show").
LI-ION IN THE STREETS Yet Toyota should soon be giving the
environmental lobby something to cheer about. In an interview
with BusinessWeek on Feb. 16, Chief Executive Katsuaki Watanabe
confirmed that Toyota's third-generation hybrid cars, due out in
late 2008 or early 2009, will use lithium-ion batteries. Lighter
and more powerful than the current nickel metal hydride packs,
the new batteries will help make for more fuel-efficient hybrids.
"We will change the battery from nickel hydride to the lithium
battery," the CEO said during a rare one-on-one interview at the
company's headquarters in Toyota City. Toyota officials say it's
the first time Watanabe had confirmed the change of cells (see
BusinessWeek.com, 2/22/07, "Talking with Toyota's Top Man").
While widely expected, some had wondered whether Toyota's li-ions
would be available in time for its new hybrid system. Watanabe,
who occasionally visits the site where the batteries are being
developed, has no doubts: "We can develop the battery in time,"
he says.
It's not just the batteries that will be better. The rest of
Toyota's next-generation hybrid systems will also be a big step
up from what's on the road today. "We are now aiming at reducing,
by half, both size and cost of the third-generation hybrid
system," saysWatanabe. That should go some way to bringing the
price of hybrids closer to regular gasoline cars.
MORE HYBRID MODELS
On performance, Toyota is more circumspect. Watanabe says the
company isn't ready to reveal data on the extent to which
performance and fuel efficiency will improve. Analysts suspect
Toyota will lean more towards bettering the latter. "There will
be a greater benefit for consumers who are really serious about
fuel efficiency," says Koichi Sugimoto, an analyst at Merrill
Lynch (MER ) in Tokyo. He reckons fuel economy could increase by
20% to 30%.
If that proves correct, it should assuage the green lobby, which
has complained that Toyota's hybridslike the Lexus RX 400h (see
BusinessWeek.com, 3/8/06, "Hybrid Heaven in a Lexus ") and Toyota
Highlander SUVsdon't have much better fuel economy than the
gasoline-only versions.
Longer term, Watanabe reiterates that he believes hybrid sales
could reach 1 million a year by the early part of next decade. At
the Detroit show, Toyota North America chief Jim Press told
reporters the company is looking to boost hybrid sales by 50% in
2007, to between 250,000 and 300,000.
To ramp up sales, Toyota will increase the number of hybrids on
the market. Reports in Japan suggest the company plans to offer a
hybrid version of any model that sells more than 100,000 units a
year (see BusinessWeek.com, 4/3/06, "Toyota Winning the Hybrid
Race"). "We're considering what sort of hybrid system can be
applied to many types of hybrid vehicles," says Watanabe. But for
hybrid sales to reach seven figures "we will probably have to
double the number of models with a hybrid system installed."
Applying hybrid systems to diesel and other alternative fuels is
also under consideration.
SAFETY MATTERS
If Toyota can achieve its goal of rolling out li-ion powered
hybrids in double-quick time, it will widen its lead over other
many auto makers. To catch up, the Big Three U.S. carmakers have
asked Washington to subsidize advanced battery research to the
tune of $500 million, spread over five years. General Motors (GM
), meanwhile, has asked Johnson Controls-Saft Advanced Power
Solutions, a joint venture between automotive-systems
manufacturer Johnson Controls (JCI ) and Paris-based Saft, and
Cobasys, a joint venture between Chevron (CVX ) and Energy
Conversion Devices (ENER ), to develop li-ions.
Still, Toyota should be wary of rushing. For one thing, its
li-ions will need to be durable in order to win over buyers. "You
don't want a hybrid car, which you already pay more for up front,
where you have to replace the battery after a few years," says
Macquarie's Sanger.
Then there's the safety issue. Last year, Sony (SNE ) took a $430
million charge after li-ion powered laptops caught fire (see
BusinessWeek.com, 9/20/06, "Battery Woes Spark Few Concerns Among
Auto Makers"). In cars, where the risks are greater, avoiding
fires is even more important. "We're making sure that the problem
can be avoided." says Watanabe. "These difficulties must be
reflected in the design."
By Ian Rowley Copyright 2000- 2007 by The McGraw-Hill Companies
Inc. All rights reserved.
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Get your own web address.
Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL
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--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Bush looks at Phoenix Motorcar EV)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.marketwire.com/mw/release_html_b1?release_id=219304
Phoenix Motorcars' CEO Discusses Alternative Fuel With President
Bush
ONTARIO, CA -- (MARKET WIRE) -- 02/23/2007 -- Daniel J. Elliott,
CEO of Phoenix Motorcars, met with President George W. Bush this
past Friday to discuss the future of alternative fuel and its
impact on improving environmental and energy performance. The
one-hour meeting included a small group of alternative fuel
entrepreneurs and scientists.
Elliott was among a select group of alternative fuel specialists
who had a one-on-one meeting with the President to discuss
Phoenix Motorcars' role in the electric vehicle industry.
Following the meeting, President Bush had the opportunity to get
an up-close look at Phoenix's sport utility truck and four other
alternative fuel vehicles to evaluate overall performance.
"It was a pleasure meeting with the President and having the
opportunity to speak on behalf of the electric vehicle industry,"
says Elliott. "Shifting to alternative fuel is a viable and
crucial solution to protect America's economy and ecosystem,
which in turn has global implications."
President Bush recently proposed a mandatory alternative fuels
standard during a January 23, 2007 State of the Union Address
asking Congress, scientists, farmers, industry leaders and
entrepreneurs to increase the supply of alternative fuels and
reduce gasoline usage in the United States by 20 percent in the
next 10 years. The "Twenty in Ten" plan will also require the
Federal Government to increase its energy efficiency, reduce
greenhouse gas emissions and to purchase environmentally sound
products.
"I am pleased to see the Federal Government is investing in
energy security," added Elliott. "Innovative research and
technological advancements in alternative fuel will only improve
our infrastructure."
Elliott oversees Phoenix Motorcars, a California-based
manufacturing company specializing in all-electric,
zero-emission, freeway-speed vehicles. The privately held company
currently targets the fleet market with its sport utility truck
model. A limited number of their sport utility trucks will be
available to consumers in 2007 with an expanded consumer launch
scheduled for 2008. Phoenix Motorcars will also introduce a sport
utility vehicle model in late 2007.
Elliott's alternative fuel background consists of over 16 years
of industry experience, including the development of low-speed
and high-speed electric performance vehicles. Elliott has also
worked in both project management and business development on
several alternative fuels projects including methanol, hydrogen
ICE, fuel cells and hybrids.
ABOUT PHOENIX MOTORCARS, INC.
Phoenix Motorcars Inc., a privately held company headquartered in
Ontario, Calif., has been an industry leader in the development
of battery-electric, freeway-speed vehicles since 2001. The
mission of Phoenix Motorcars is to manufacture zero-emission
vehicles including Sport Utility Trucks and Sport Utility
Vehicles to reduce the toxic emissions from the largest
contributor to air pollution, personal automobiles. Phoenix
Motorcars has strategic alliances with UQM Technologies, Inc. ,
Altair Nanotechnologies, Inc. and Boshart Engineering. For
additional information, visit www.phoenixmotorcars.com.
Agency Contact: Bonnie McCracken E-mail: Email Contact Phone:
(909) 625-2225 x11
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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Be a PS3 game guru.
Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.
http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121
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--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(TH!NK seeking Euro and U.S. markets)-long
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17299748/
Utility eyes power grid to boost electric cars
Idea would have owners charge at night, then sell excess power
during day Reuters Updated: 12:55 p.m. PT Feb 23, 2007
[
http://msnbcmedia1.msn.com/j/getty/73392697bs005_alt_car.rp420x400.jpg
Brendan Smialowski / Getty Images WASHINGTON - FEBRUARY 23: Dan
Elliott (R), President and CEO of Phoenix Motorcars Inc., listens
to Dave Vieau (2R), President and CEO of A123 Systems, speak U.S.
President George W Bush (3R) about his company's battery to
retrofit hybrid cars as plug-ins on the South Lawn of the White
House February 23, 2007 in Washington, DC. President Bush was
shown an all electric truck from Phoenix Motorcars and a hybrid
car retrofitted with a plug-in battery from A123 Systems by the
company's CEOs.]
[ http://msnbcmedia2.msn.com/j/afp/was769060.rp420x400.jpg
MANDEL NGAN / AFP/Getty Images US President George W. Bush
speaks while standing infront of an all-electric pickup by
Phoenix Motorcars during a demonstration of alternative fuel
vehicles 23 February 2007 on the South Lawn of the White House in
Washington, DC.]
SAN FRANCISCO - California's biggest utility, Pacific Gas &
Electric Co., is considering a plan to charge fleets of
battery-powered cars overnight with wind energy and let consumers
sell back some of the stored electricity during the day.
In addition to reducing oil consumption and greenhouse gas
emissions from standard cars, the plan could help stoke
production of plug-in hybrid electric vehicles and give power
managers more energy capacity on the grid for hot summer
afternoons, speakers said at a "clean technology" investment
conference in San Francisco this week.
The utility, a subsidiary of PG&E Corp., "could recharge car
batteries through electric outlets during the off-peak overnight
hours and recharge the grid from the batteries during critical
peak demand periods," said Hal LaFlash, director of energy policy
and planning at PG&E.
In California, wind power is the biggest renewable source, with
more than 2,500 megawatts. Some 4,600 megawatts of wind are
projected to be added to meet the state's goal for renewable
supplies, LaFlash said.
Minneapolis-based Xcel Energy also is studying smart-grid
technologies and recharging hybrid electric vehicles and feeding
excess power back to the grid.
A six-month study in Colorado found that electric cars may reduce
the overall cost of owning a car, and with new grid technology,
cut harmful vehicle emissions by up to 50 percent.
5-6 years away?
More studies will include plug-in electric vehicle field tests,
and examine management of battery charging along with the
availability of renewable energy, Xcel said.
A power grid-to-car-batteries hookup, however, is probably at
least five to six years away, Felix Kramer, founder of CalCars,
said at the cleantech conference.
CalCars is a nonprofit group which has built about 20 plug-ins
since 2004 by outfitting the Toyota Prius with new lithium-ion
batteries.
Improving battery technologies to boost energy density at lower
weight and cost is a hurdle, but progress on lithium ion battery
packs could help develop a bigger market for plug-in cars, Kramer
said.
Drivers also may have to downsize their vehicle choices. Some
electric cars are likely to be small and aimed at urban dwellers
who do most of their motoring in or near cities, speakers at the
conference said.
Jan-Olaf Willums, chairman of Norway's TH!NK Electric Car Co., is
betting he will find a market in Europe and the United States for
his two-seater "city" car. The company previously had ties to
Ford Motor Co.
The company raised $25 million in February and aims to double the
funding amount by May, he said. It expects to begin production in
Norway in September, with marketing focused first in Europe and
then the United States.
Smarter meters would be key
PG&E's LaFlash said new "smart grid" technologies such as
high-tech meters that measure electricity use via remote control
and give customers timing and pricing options could help drivers
charge their batteries at home or parking lots and also get a
bill credit for putting excess electricity back on the grid.
Utilities and grid managers would limit the amount of energy
uploaded from batteries, he said. Metering and billing systems
would be equipped to match a car to an account.
More than 20 states have adopted measures ordering electric
utilities to add more renewable cleaner energies such as wind,
solar, geothermal and biomass to their energy supplies.
In addition to cars, connections could be made from homes and
office buildings to a smart grid, storing energy at off-peak and
delivering more capacity to the grid at peak periods, LaFlash
said.
Copyright 2007 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved.
© 2007 MSNBC.com
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Any questions? Get answers on any topic at www.Answers.yahoo.com. Try it now.
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--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(200 China nEVs for Los Angeles-based Miles Automotive)
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http://www.bizjournals.com/baltimore/stories/2007/02/19/daily41.html?from_rss=1
>From China to Baltimore, electric cars motor through port
Baltimore Business Journal - 2:47 PM EST Friday, February 23,
2007 by Stephanie Wentworth Staff
The Port of Baltimore added electric cars to its list of
environmental imports Thursday.
About 200 electric cars entered the country from China through
the Port of Baltimore. The port is the only location on the East
Coast to receive the cars, according to the Maryland Port
Administration [ http://marylandports.com ] . Last December
India-based Suzlon Energy/AS began importing turbines and
machinery used to create wind-generated energy in Pennsylvania.
"As environmental stewards of Maryland waterways, it is important
that we continue to seek out this type of cargo and do our part
to make our environment clean and safe," MPA Executive Director
Brooks Royster said in a news release.
Tianjin Qingyuan Electric Vehicle Co. [ http://www.qyev.com ]
manufactured the five-door hatchbacks that rolled off ships in
Baltimore earlier this week. The cars will be distributed to
dealerships and customers in the East and Midwest. The shipment
was arranged by Los Angeles-based Miles Automotive
[ http://milesautomotive.com ] who used Wallenius Wilhelmsen
Logistics, an international shipper.
The cars' maximum speed is 25 miles per hour. After charging for
five to eight hours the cars can travel 60 to 70 miles. They are
popular on college campuses, retirement communities and military
bases, according to officials. The cars are also permitted on
Maryland roads.
© American City Business Journals Inc. All rights reserved.
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Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for earth-friendly autos?
Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.
http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070223/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_hybrid_cars
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I for one can certainly confirm the standing up part. LR>..........
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > I had trouble seeing the motorcycle itself, not just the batteries.
> > That is one EV that people will stand up and notice!
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--- Begin Message ---
Seems the weight distribution is just about perfect. LR.....
> Now... That IS a sight! ... just beautiful.. Thou looks quite simple.
> But I think that just makes it even more beautiful.
>
> batts seemed to be installed guite high place from ground. Where the gas
> tank has been. Balance can't be good...
>
> Optima Bluetops ?? In the picture 13/13...
>
> -Jukka
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G'day Jerry, and All
At 06:59 AM 24/02/07 -0500, Jerry wrote:
<snip>
An
>S-10 front clip/cab is a lot taller. It would be a
>difficult retrofit, if even possible.
Why?
Why does the old height matter except to increase
drag? You are completely replacing it with a matching
composite aero bed in my version. All you need to do is
match the wheelwells to the front wheels, lower the steering
wheel and let the rest fall where it does. And as I said
above, it's been done already.
Can you give some examples (links to on-line information), as I've often
thought about how a pickup chassis with an aerodynamic car body should make
for a high load carrying capacity, low drag EV. However, when I look at how
they are made, the car body would have to be sitting on top of the chassis
(as the truck body does) so would need to have a lot of lower bodywork made
to cover the chassis and suspension and would end up not greatly lower in
overall height to the trucks' original height (maybe 10 to 15%). Of course,
if your donor truck has a low chassis and a tall body to start with, then
it may not be so bad, but otherwise you may end up looking like a 4X4,
along with having that high frontal area still.
<snip> Looks are important along with it's 25% lower
weight, aero drag,
Would you get that much lower aero drag with the RX-7 body perched on top
of the truck chassis? If the floor of the passenger compartment is like
most 'sports cars' the floor is thin and low (relative to the height of the
front suspension/etc) so putting it on top of the truck chassis will leave
a big space between the top of the truck tyre and the wheel opening to add
drag.
Seems you'd
>be better off scrapping the S-10 and building an RX-7
>EV with the parts, no?
No, your need was a pick up so that's what my
solution was.
So build a new chassis and back for the RX-7 to be a pickup? There used to
be a pickup kicking around here (that I never got a close look at) that was
some kind of sports car in the front, and a 6' pickup bed in the back. Each
time I saw it I wanted to have a close look, and never did. Rumour had it
that it was a jap. imported car where they had brought in the entire front
to get the loom, etc and the purchaser had built the back locally.
Might be possible to just build an upper body to a suitable donor as a
pickup (a bunch of Holden Gemini station wagons' were made into pickups
here about 10 years ago) as long as the load carrying capacities are
modest? I guess the only real solution is a custom chassis - but that
prices out of most EV hobbyists' reach. Might as well fo to Tesla and pay
them to make a pickup for you!
Interested in all opinions, but especially any examples, as I have a Datsun
dual-cab rolling chassis sitting out at a friends' farm that I got some
years ago to do pretty much what is being talked about (a Nissan Skyline
station wagon body onto the chassis).
Regards
[Technik] James
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From: Jack Murray
> Yeah I've seen the Tango and watched the videos to show they won't
> tip over. A cool car, but I don't like the idea of having to talk to your
> passenger sitting behind you. And they ain't gonna narrow all the roads
> to fit two abreast any time soon.
The Tango is produced by *Commuter* Cars Inc. so their intentions are clear.
Most people commute alone. But the Tango has a back seat, just in case you need
to carry a passenger. That strikes me as a big advantage over the Sparrow or
the "Gold Bug". If you sectioned a VW Bug, you could still have a back seat.
Commuter Cars doesn't expect anyone to narrow the roads. But "lane splitting"
is legal in many states for motorcycles. With the Tango being as narrow as a
motorcycle, they can drive two abreast. With its smaller size, you can also
park 4 Tangos in the same space as a normal car. Does *that* ever give urban
planners something to think about!
--
Lee Hart
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Seeing the mention of contactor controllers made me think about using
other switching elements instead of contactors.
Has anyone seen an SCR switched parallel-series switching controller ?
Using the four 24V pack example, I can see that switching up in 6
stages can be done with 9 SCR's, 6 of them rated for full current and 3
rated for a half of maximum current.
Step 1 - one 24V pack
Step 2 - two 24V packs in parallel
Step 3 - three 24V packs in parallel
Step 4 - four 24V packs in parallel
Step 5 - two (24 x 2 in series) 48V packs in parallel
Step 6 - four 24V packs in series
Although it would be possible to introduce intermediate steps at higher
voltages this would mean using an inline contactor to commutate all
SCR's before reconfiguring them. This would mean a slight jolt as you
accelerate , as the contactor momentarily kills power o the motor
For smoother accelration without the same dropout jolt the steps above
can be used
The only way to turn off all SCR's would be to use a contactor rated
for maximum current.
If using a microcontroller to control the logic, accelerator pedal
input can be detected from a pedal mounted potentiometer and to slow
down the micro can drop the single contactor before reconfiguring the
SCR's in the correct order for the new pedal postion, there would be
very little jolt doing this because unlike ICE vehicles there's is no
engine braking.
Having seen the specs for an SW200 contactor, with a 40mV drop per
100Amps, the SCR's seem to have about the same loss under heavy loads,
they don't click and they're cheap and plentiful, and they remove the
lossy starting resistor and give a smoother power takeup at low speeds.
Does anyone know if this has been done already ?
Chris
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Thanks for the info. The batteries look very clean. I will clean them and
see if that takes care of the problem.
Beano -- 1981 Ford Escort EV
Ted Sanders
From: Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: Chassi - Pack isolation
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 14:48:01 -0800
Hi Ted,
Thanks for the well documented post.
My first impression is that you use flooded batteries, which must gas
during
charging to mix the electrolyte.
This gas also releases tiny droplets which settle on the top of each
battery
and cause it to become slightly conductive.
Clean the tops of all batteries and most likely everything is back to
normal.
Success,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
_________________________________________________________________
Find a local pizza place, movie theater, and more
.then map the best route!
http://maps.live.com/?icid=hmtag1&FORM=MGAC01
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It's not hard to draw up a neato emblem in Solidworks 3D and have a 3D
company print one out for you.
The result is a hard plastic not unlike nylon though I've noticed if I
scrape hard with my fingernail I can shave off a thin part of the
surface bit by bit.
It could be painted or you could use it as a mold prototype and make a
silicone mold around it so a harder material could be cast into that
exact shape.
Danny
Don Cameron wrote:
Hi all,
I am looking for whoever got the "electric" car emblem manufactured. I want
to make some of my own (for a completely different product), and want to
find a manufacturer.
thanks
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
---------------------------------------------------
See the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
Check the EVDL Archives: http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive
Check out the EV FAQ: www.evparts.com/faq
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--- Begin Message ---
bruce parmenter wrote:
Want a carpool sticker you can't use?
By Leslie Griffy Mercury News
Who would spend $10,000 on a carpool sticker that's illegal to
use?
Nobody, apparently.
. . . .
State law prevents the stickers from being transferred, because
DMV registers them to the car, not the driver.
----------------------------------------------
The white California HOV sticker for my EV came with a certificate and
instructions
to keep it in the vehicle.
John PV EV in Sylmar, CA
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By my calcs you need something closer to 2-4 HP here.
Car A/C needs a LOT of power. It takes a fantastically high amount of
cooling capacity for a metal box with glass windows in the sun, esp one
that has been left in a parking lot and is already 130F inside. It is
much larger than your typical single-room window A/C unit you might use
for a bedroom.
Danny
James Massey wrote:
At 02:20 AM 24/02/07 -0800, Tony wrote:
What do you guys do for AC? I'm thinking of getting a 1/2HP motor,
running at, I think, 1500RPM?
Would that be sufficient? I saw this auction on eBay, and this looks
interesting:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Masterflux-Sierra-13-Electric-Vehicle-
G'day Tony
Most 'folks just get a 120 volt permanent magnet treadmill motor, and
bang the existing aircon compressor on the end or off one side with a
belt, for a lot less than $575 starting bid and bog stock standard
auto aircon stuff that any auto air mechanic knows his way around.
I'm guessing that the Ebay one is designed to be smaller and more
efficient than using a motor to drive a standard aircon, but a tad
more expensive.
Hope this helps
Regards
[Technik] James
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Chris,
You will ALWAYS have to kill power for an instant, using a contactor or
something like that (IGBT, FET) as the SCR cannot be extinguished once it
has been fired and you don't want to have two SCRs opened across any
battery.
So, you will always need to kill current, re-apply the contactor and then
fire the SCRs for the new voltage combination.
BTW, you never want to have less than your entire pack engaged, so there is
no point in 1 or more packs in parallel - you always put all your pack
sections in parallel at lower voltages, else some will get beaten up and
others unused. Not a good way to make a decent range. Spreading the current
over as many as possible strings gives you the lowest current in each, so
the longest life and range.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Chris
Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 4:05 PM
To: James Massey
Subject: Switched SCR controller, Was: Contactor Controller
Seeing the mention of contactor controllers made me think about using other
switching elements instead of contactors.
Has anyone seen an SCR switched parallel-series switching controller ?
Using the four 24V pack example, I can see that switching up in 6 stages can
be done with 9 SCR's, 6 of them rated for full current and 3 rated for a
half of maximum current.
Step 1 - one 24V pack
Step 2 - two 24V packs in parallel
Step 3 - three 24V packs in parallel
Step 4 - four 24V packs in parallel
Step 5 - two (24 x 2 in series) 48V packs in parallel Step 6 - four 24V
packs in series
Although it would be possible to introduce intermediate steps at higher
voltages this would mean using an inline contactor to commutate all SCR's
before reconfiguring them. This would mean a slight jolt as you accelerate ,
as the contactor momentarily kills power o the motor
For smoother accelration without the same dropout jolt the steps above can
be used
The only way to turn off all SCR's would be to use a contactor rated for
maximum current.
If using a microcontroller to control the logic, accelerator pedal input can
be detected from a pedal mounted potentiometer and to slow down the micro
can drop the single contactor before reconfiguring the SCR's in the correct
order for the new pedal postion, there would be very little jolt doing this
because unlike ICE vehicles there's is no engine braking.
Having seen the specs for an SW200 contactor, with a 40mV drop per 100Amps,
the SCR's seem to have about the same loss under heavy loads, they don't
click and they're cheap and plentiful, and they remove the lossy starting
resistor and give a smoother power takeup at low speeds.
Does anyone know if this has been done already ?
Chris
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Phil Knox's truck is very inspiring:
http://www.evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=870
Why not work with what you've got?
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On 23 Feb 2007 at 12:08, Mark Brueggemann wrote:
> The primary reason I'm driving a "lead pig" is I stand a
> chance of surviving an encounter with another vehicle.
Actually, this may or may not be a better situation for a couple of reasons.
I'm going to try to word this carefully, as I don't want to start another
war over "are SUVs really safer." Such discussions have happened here
before, and they tend to veer away from EVs and into emotionally charged
regions that I prefer to avoid.
Vehicles have changed a lot since the days when automakers generally ignored
crash safety. Not only legislation but customers now demand a good safety
record, so modern vehicles are usually designed to be as crashworthy as
possible.
Trucks and truck-based SUVs were relatively late in joining the crash safety
trend, based on their relatively slow adoption of the energy-absorbing
strategies used in monocoque sedans. This may be because the popular >view<
of crashworthiness is that vehicle bulk contributes to safety in a manner
disproportionate to its >actual< contribution. Thus there may have been
less public demand for the application of energy-absorbing strategies to
trucks.
Trucks ordinarily have bodies mounted on rigid frames. These frames usually
transmit appreciably more of the crash energy to the passengers than does
the collapsable front and rear / rigid passenger cage monocoque construction
of passenger cars, raising the risk of injury. Although crash injury
statistics have their limitations, and one can always cite anecdotal
exceptions, the numbers do suggest that this analysis has some validity.
Second, when we modify any vehicle to make it an EV, the change in weight
distribution and alteration to the vehicle structure can affect its ability
to absorb crash energy. Fitting batteries under the chassis is intuitively
a favored approach and probably helps to reduce rollover potential.
However, in a collision, an EV conversion's batteries may still behave in a
manner that's unpredictable to those of us who aren't MEs and don't have
access to supercomputers and appropriate (expensive) design software.
Thus, a converted truck may have two strikes against it as far as collision
safety is concerned. A well designed, purpose-built small EV >may< indeed
be safer than a converted small to medium sized ICE truck.
Trouble is, it's just about impossible to tell how successful a purpose
built small EV is in incorporating crashworthiness, if it's of a design that
it isn't required to be tested against US and/or EU standards. One example
of such a PBEV would be a typical 3-wheeler. These designs are governed by
motorcycle safety standards, so the designers don't have to comply with
automotive safety requirements. I may have missed one or more, but I don't
know of any developers working on 3-wheel EVs which intend to test them
against the crashworthiness standards for 4-wheel passenger cars. Indeed, a
principal reason for using the 3-wheel design is to >avoid< the expense of
those tests.
The upshot of this is :
1. If crashworthiness is your overriding concern, DON'T CONVERT, period.
Drive an ICE that's highly rated for crashworthiness and has an excellent
safety record. This information may be found on several websites.
2. If crashworthiness is a moderate concern for you, convert an ICE that's
highly rated for crashworthiness. Do your best to make sure the weight
distribution isn't changed, the batteries are well restrained, and the
vehicle structure is minimally altered.
3. If crashworthiness is of little concern in your priorities, many EV
avenues are open to you.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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