EV Digest 6470
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Regenerated Power
by "Patrick Andrews" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) 6V AGM regulator design
by Frank John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Switched SCR controller
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Regenerated Power
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: 6V AGM regulator design
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Factory S10 Needs Batteries
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: EV bashing, RE: T-105 Sitcker Shock
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Chassi - Pack isolation
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: [EV] Re: air conditioning, what do you guys do?
by Eduardo Kaftanski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Regenerated Power
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: [EV] Re: air conditioning, what do you guys do?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Factory S10 Needs Batteries
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Fully sprung 'direct drive' (was: Regenerative suspension)
by "Bruce" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: [EV] Re: air conditioning, what do you guys do?
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Solutions, Re: Fixing Mark's S-10 EV
by xx xx <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: [EV] Re: air conditioning, what do you guys do?
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: [EV] Re: air conditioning, what do you guys do?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Warp, ADC, rehash, was Battery amps in Uve's EV Calculator
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Cobasys / Chevron NiMH Patent
by Geopilot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Fully sprung 'direct drive' (was: Regenerative suspension)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) highly recommend new google patent search for old patent and electric
vehicle information!
by Geopilot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Chassis - Pack isolation
by Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Three pages of original Tesla electrical patents from the late 1800's
here!
by Geopilot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: EV bashing, RE: T-105 Sitcker Shock
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
How much power is regenerated from breaking? I am asking because if I were
to build a high voltage BMS I would need a high voltage DC/DC converter to
step the voltage down. Has anyone used an alternator or 12v generator for
their breaks / regenerated power.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
_________________________________________________________________
With tax season right around the corner, make sure to follow these few
simple tips.
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Taxes/PreparationTips/PreparationTips.aspx?icid=HMFebtagline
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've been thinking about design parameters for 6V AGM's. I figure if this
doesn't work out that Lee's original 12V design could be implemented in a "leap
frog" fashion, i.e. batteries 1&2 considered as one group, batteries 2&3
together, etc. (is this true?).
Assuming no bypassing is wanted below 6.5 vdc and a zener diode of appropriate
power can be found, is it true that a load (ex. small light bulb) of about 1.0
volts should be used? This should allow bypassing to start to occur after 6.5
volts yet limit total voltage to 7.5 volts.
I'd appreciate any comments, etc. Anyone ever done this before?
____________________________________________________________________________________
Cheap talk?
Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.
http://voice.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: Chris
> Seeing the mention of contactor controllers made me think about using
> other switching elements instead of contactors. Has anyone seen an SCR
> switched parallel-series switching controller?
The "rectactor" circuit uses two diodes and a single SPST contactor to build a
series/parallel circuit. The presence of the diodes means you can't turn it
completely off (it either provides X or 2X volts), and you can regen or charge
the batteries except in the 2X position.
You could use SCRs to replace the diodes; that would make it switchable (off,
X, or 2X volts). But to get the two SCRs to turn off, you'd have to momentarily
energize the contactor to the 2X state.
I've seen setups that used 4 SCRs to replace a forward/reverse contactor.
--
Lee Hart
>Using the four 24V pack example, I can see that switching up in 6
>stages can be done with 9 SCR's, 6 of them rated for full current and 3
>rated for a half of maximum current.
>
>Step 1 - one 24V pack
>Step 2 - two 24V packs in parallel
>Step 3 - three 24V packs in parallel
>Step 4 - four 24V packs in parallel
>Step 5 - two (24 x 2 in series) 48V packs in parallel
>Step 6 - four 24V packs in series
>
>Although it would be possible to introduce intermediate steps at higher
>voltages this would mean using an inline contactor to commutate all
>SCR's before reconfiguring them. This would mean a slight jolt as you
>accelerate , as the contactor momentarily kills power o the motor
>
>For smoother accelration without the same dropout jolt the steps above
>can be used
>
>The only way to turn off all SCR's would be to use a contactor rated
>for maximum current.
>
>If using a microcontroller to control the logic, accelerator pedal
>input can be detected from a pedal mounted potentiometer and to slow
>down the micro can drop the single contactor before reconfiguring the
>SCR's in the correct order for the new pedal postion, there would be
>very little jolt doing this because unlike ICE vehicles there's is no
>engine braking.
>
>Having seen the specs for an SW200 contactor, with a 40mV drop per
>100Amps, the SCR's seem to have about the same loss under heavy loads,
>they don't click and they're cheap and plentiful, and they remove the
>lossy starting resistor and give a smoother power takeup at low speeds.
>
>Does anyone know if this has been done already ?
>
>Chris
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Patrick,
It depends HOW regen is done.
Apart from a few exceptions, I have only seen regen on AC drivetrains, where
it is built-into the controller and the programming of the controller can
limit max voltage to the pack and max current.
I think the Zapi DC controller is the exception that gives DC regen, but
there have been problems with this in the past, controllers blowing from the
regen, so I think it is not very often used, though you may hear from a few
using it successfully today.
Other approaches are regen into the aux battery, but this is not what you
are concerned about and there are a few home-built variants of DC systems
that have regen.
In theory, regen current can be as high as drive current to provide the same
acceleration (but in opposite direction), so if you have 200A max battery
current drain, then you can also see max 200A battery current charging
during a hard stop.
I have limited my max brake current to about 90A to avoid hitting the max
voltage or excessive gassing batteries.
Lower voltage systems typically have higher currents, so you may want to
look into the low voltage AC system's specs, I think the motor is called
AC-45 and has a controller going with it and also Victor (metricmind.com)
has several AC systems that will give regen capability as built-in feature.
Hope this helps,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Patrick Andrews
Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 5:09 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Regenerated Power
How much power is regenerated from breaking? I am asking because if I were
to build a high voltage BMS I would need a high voltage DC/DC converter to
step the voltage down. Has anyone used an alternator or 12v generator for
their breaks / regenerated power.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
_________________________________________________________________
With tax season right around the corner, make sure to follow these few
simple tips.
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Taxes/PreparationTips/PreparationTips.a
spx?icid=HMFebtagline
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: Frank John
> I've been thinking about design parameters for 6V AGM's. I figure if this
> doesn't > work out that Lee's original 12V design could be implemented
> in a "leap frog" fashion, i.e. batteries 1&2 considered as one group,
> batteries 2&3 together, etc.
You could, but there's no need to do it that way. I already posted a version of
my zener-lamp regulator with two #PR2 lamps (to double the current it can
bypass). Each lamp has a 6.2v or 6.8v 5w zener diode in series with it (one in
each of the two ring terminals).
--
Lee Hart
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm posting this on behalf of a man named Dan. Please respond
directly to him at [EMAIL PROTECTED] He has a '97 GM S10 with no
charger and no batteries or battery trays, but otherwise in very good
shape. He wants to get it going. If there is anyone on the list
with firsthand familiarity with these vehicles that could help him
out, please contact him.
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Feb 24, 2007, at 5:07 PM, David Roden wrote:
3. If crashworthiness is of little concern in your priorities, many EV
avenues are open to you.
Like <http://evalbum.com/125.html> or <http://www.evfun.com>.
Sorry, I couldn't resist David! I think I may be *safer* as a
pedestrian, but wouldn't have nearly so much fun (and I don't like to
walk 10 miles one way :-) None of those pictures show it but it lacks
seat belts too (1964, not required.) I'm not sure they would help much
anyway.
If it would quite raining I would drive it now (already have driven it
once this year.) I keep reminding myself that summer is coming...
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Ted,
Three things could cause a conduction of battery voltage to a chassis.
First is that the batteries them self are conducting across the plastic tops
of the batteries to a conductive material holding them in place. Even if
the material is a non-conductive, you can get a conductive path on these
materials.
To test this out, put one lead on a battery post and slide the other one on
the battery top away from that post. It is common to see a voltage change
as you get further away from a post.
If you have removable battery caps, put each lead next to each battery cap
and you may see a voltage.
No matter how hard you clean the tops of the batteries, there may always be
some minute amount of conduction.
The second way you can have a conductive path to the chassis is the built up
brush dust inside the motor. Take a ohm meter ready of any one of the motor
terminals to the chassis with one motor lead disconnected. When I install a
new motor, I normally check the motor terminals to motor frame, to give me a
base line for a reference for future testing. Normally a new motor may read
or 20 meg ohms.
As time goes on, this could decrease to 30 to 50 k which means its time to
clean the motor. The path of the surface of the commentator to the motor
face may be short. If the face of the commentator does not have any motor
insulation on it, there is a very short conductive path to the motor shaft.
I had arcing from the face of the commentator to the shaft which was cause
by the brush dust and it increase greatly when the charger was on. To
prevent this, I install two contactors or a disconnect between the batteries
and the controller, to prevent the higher charger voltage on this circuit.
Remember, when you plug your AC power into a chassis mount receptacle, the
receptacle may be a self ground type. So now you can greatly cause a circuit
path through the batteries, the negative goes directly to the motor and
across a conductive path of the brush dust.
Now when you remove the charger, this conductive path now has be establish
in a low ohm value. Normally the battery negative is mostly ground through
this path to chassis which may hold your conductive or even non-conductive
battery rack or enclosure.
I use to have aluminum battery boxes which I had the full charging voltage
from any one of the battery terminals to the EV chassis. I change the
battery boxes to epoxy cover fiberglass which is also was space about 4
inches from any metal.
I now get 0.01 or less volts from any battery terminal while charging. My on
board battery charger is double insulated from the EV chassis by placing it
a epoxy fiberglass container which is also foam and nylon insulated from the
chassis. Only the battery charger case is AC ground. The AC input plug and
connector is a isolated type. When the battery contactors are connected to
the motor controller, I get a surge to 0.14 volts and it then it bleeds off
0.1 volt, which was always normal for me.
Connect up all the circuits and charger to the batteries with the battery
charger off. Read the voltage from the selected battery terminals to
chassis. Then start removing each circuit from the battery and test again
and do so until the batteries are completely disconnected from everything.
If you still do have this voltage potential from the battery to chassis,
then one or more batteries have a conductive path, that can even run over
the surface of a non-conductive path.
Again, no matter how hard you clean them, you may only reduce this
conductance, but never to 0.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted Sanders" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 3:34 PM
Subject: Chassi - Pack isolation
>
> My apologies for such a long post!! I felt that it was needed to explain
> the situation.
>
>
> In late October I replaced the batteries in my EV with 18 US 2000
> batteries
> for a pack voltage of 108. I have numbered my batteries from 1 the
> negative
> post of which connects to the negative terminal of the system and number
> 18
> positive post connecting to the positive terminal of the system. On
> December 28 I added two more US 2000 batteries to increase the pack to 120
> volts. At this point battery number 1 was on the negative end of the pack
> and battery number 20 was at the positive end of the pack. I also changed
> the DC/DC converter to accommodate the extra voltage. I installed a
> regular
> electrical box to make the connection between the pack and the DC/DC
> converter. Prior to this the chassis and pack voltage was isolated except
> when the charger was connected to the 120 volt AC source. When the
> charger
> was connected to the AC source the chassis voltage was midway between the
> charger output. I did not check to see if this was still true until mid
> February.
>
> On February l3 I decided to check to see if the chassis and the pack were
> isolated. To my surprise I discovered that there was a potential exiting
> between the pack and the chassis.
>
> I had not driven the car for 13 days and the pack voltage was 126.8. The
> negative terminal of the pack was 66.3 volts negative in relation to the
> chassis. The positive terminal of the pack was 12.2 volts positive in
> relation to the chassis. The potential spread was 78.5 volts. The
> potential switched polarity in battery number 17. The negative post of
> battery number 17 was 2.1 volts negative in relation to the chassis and
> the
> positive post was 1.6 volts positive in relation to the chassis. I
> completely disconnected the charger from the pack. The wires which
> connect
> the charger were disconnected in the trunk of the car so they still run
> below the body to the pack connections under the hood. This did not make
> any difference. I unplugged the DC/DC from the pack. This did not make
> difference. The 120 volt socket was still connected to the pack. I
> removed
> the plug and found that it was taped with electrical tape where the wires
> from the pack were connected. Also the wires were protected where they
> entered the box.
>
> Thirteen days later I checked these measurements again. The car had not
> been driven. The total pack voltage was 125.8. The negative terminal of
> the pack was 64.6 volts negative in relation to the chassis. The positive
> terminal of the pack was 4.0 volts positive in relation to the chassis.
> The
> potential spread was 68.6 volts. However, now the switch in polarity
> occurred in battery number 19. The negative post of battery 19 is 0.6
> volts
> negative in relation to the chassis and the positive post is 1.5 volts
> positive in relation to the chassis.
>
> Since the total voltage of the pack has dropped only 1 volt in 13 days it
> does not seem that this situation is causing a drain on the pack. All of
> the cable have extra protection where they pass through metal.
>
> I am looking for suggestions as to what has happened to cause a potential
> between the pack and the chassis except when the charger is connected to
> the
> AC source.
>
>
> "Beano" 1981 Escort EV
> Ted Sanders
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Mortgage rates as low as 4.625% - Refinance $150,000 loan for $579 a
> month.
> Intro*Terms
> https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&search=mortgage_text_links_88_h27f6&disc=y&vers=743&s=4056&p=5117
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>
> The following is the results of the tests at no loads.
>
> Bat No Load No Load No Load Load Generator
> Size Volts Amps Rpm* Rpm**
>
> 90 98 5 7000 5700
> 84 89.6 4.8 6600 5077
> 78 83.2 4.5 6200 4670
> 72 76.7 4.3 5700 4385
> 66 70.5 4.2 5320 4090
> 60 63.7 4 4830 3715
> 54 57.5 3.7 4250 3270
> 48 51.2 3.5 3880 2985
> 42 44.5 3.3 3278 2521
> 36 37.8 3.2 2787 2143
> 30 31.8 3.1 2305 1773
> 24 25.4 3 1807 1390
> 18 18.9 2.8 1308 1013
> 12 12.6 2.5 825 634
>
Roland,
Can you please measure stall amps at 12 and 48 volts for one of those motors?
I need to start one of these motors with a big load already attached and want
to size the fuse and relay.
Thanks.
--
Eduardo K. |
http://www.carfun.cl | Freedom's just another word
http://e.nn.cl | for nothing left to lose.
http://ev.nn.cl |
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Patrick,
I do use the alternator which also provides the power to the electric power
steering, the vacuum pump, and A/C to provide a mechanical REGEM. I use a
GMC diesel engine accessory aluminum mounting plate that normally mounts to
the engine, but I have it mounted about 8 inches in front of the motor on
four donut engine type mounts.
The pilot shaft of the motor is double gang cog belt to a electric clutch I
made from a A/C clutch (a lot of machine work to install a large shaft on
the A/C pump shaft that is mounted on double faces bearings) which then
drives all the accessories units.
I used a micro switch on the accelerator control that is use to activated
the clutch (on) when I let up on the accelerator or turns it off when I
press the accelerator. I use a 15 second time delay so multiple pressing
the accelerator does not short cycle the electric clutch.
When I press the accelerator, three electric motors come on line that is
driven by the battery pack to drive these accessories drives unit.
I normally use the mechanical regen system in the winter time, which will
slow or maintain a down hill speed or use to slow the EV to a stop without
breaking.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Andrews" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 6:08 PM
Subject: Regenerated Power
> How much power is regenerated from breaking? I am asking because if I were
> to build a high voltage BMS I would need a high voltage DC/DC converter to
> step the voltage down. Has anyone used an alternator or 12v generator for
> their breaks / regenerated power.
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> With tax season right around the corner, make sure to follow these few
> simple tips.
> http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Taxes/PreparationTips/PreparationTips.aspx?icid=HMFebtagline
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Eduardo,
I will start testing these motor at these voltages Sunday. I did one test
at 60 volts at 7 amps turning a 15 volt load generator at 25 amps.
I have to adjust my load banks for a higher ampere. The maximum ampere I
can pull on these motors will be 22 amps at 2.75 peak hp. This will be about
44 amps for two motors. The estimate ampere at 48 volts should be about 22
amps, but I will find these out when I do these test.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eduardo Kaftanski" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 7:13 PM
Subject: Re: [EV] Re: air conditioning, what do you guys do?
> >
> > The following is the results of the tests at no loads.
> >
> > Bat No Load No Load No Load Load Generator
> > Size Volts Amps Rpm* Rpm**
> >
> > 90 98 5 7000 5700
> > 84 89.6 4.8 6600 5077
> > 78 83.2 4.5 6200 4670
> > 72 76.7 4.3 5700 4385
> > 66 70.5 4.2 5320 4090
> > 60 63.7 4 4830 3715
> > 54 57.5 3.7 4250 3270
> > 48 51.2 3.5 3880 2985
> > 42 44.5 3.3 3278 2521
> > 36 37.8 3.2 2787 2143
> > 30 31.8 3.1 2305 1773
> > 24 25.4 3 1807 1390
> > 18 18.9 2.8 1308 1013
> > 12 12.6 2.5 825 634
> >
>
> Roland,
>
> Can you please measure stall amps at 12 and 48 volts for one of those
> motors?
>
> I need to start one of these motors with a big load already attached and
> want
> to size the fuse and relay.
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> Eduardo K. |
> http://www.carfun.cl | Freedom's just another word
> http://e.nn.cl | for nothing left to lose.
> http://ev.nn.cl |
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.evbones.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I wonder if it is really legal for Tangos to drive two abreast?
After all, isn't this reserved for motorcycles? I realize that some
motorcycles may be wider than a Tango but the Tango is registered as a car
isn't it?
Bruce
Lee Hart wrote:
> With the Tango being as narrow as a motorcycle, they can drive two
abreast.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
These are permanent magnet motors, with 4 magnets
epoxied to the motor housing. I'm not sure what the
magnet material is (I'll check some prints), but keep
in mind that doing a stall test for too long may demag
the stator magnets (or at least weaken the magnetic
field, which will make them less efficient in normal
operation).
Rod
--- Eduardo Kaftanski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > The following is the results of the tests at no
> loads.
> >
> > Bat No Load No Load No Load
> Load Generator
> > Size Volts Amps Rpm*
> Rpm**
> >
> > 90 98 5 7000
> 5700
> > 84 89.6 4.8 6600
> 5077
> > 78 83.2 4.5 6200
> 4670
> > 72 76.7 4.3 5700
> 4385
> > 66 70.5 4.2 5320
> 4090
> > 60 63.7 4 4830
> 3715
> > 54 57.5 3.7 4250
> 3270
> > 48 51.2 3.5 3880
> 2985
> > 42 44.5 3.3 3278
> 2521
> > 36 37.8 3.2 2787
> 2143
> > 30 31.8 3.1 2305
> 1773
> > 24 25.4 3 1807
> 1390
> > 18 18.9 2.8 1308
> 1013
> > 12 12.6 2.5 825
> 634
> >
>
> Roland,
>
> Can you please measure stall amps at 12 and 48 volts
> for one of those motors?
>
> I need to start one of these motors with a big load
> already attached and want
> to size the fuse and relay.
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> Eduardo K. |
> http://www.carfun.cl | Freedom's just another word
> http://e.nn.cl | for nothing left to lose.
> http://ev.nn.cl |
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is the vehicle that I was thinking of as well.
The aero back and wheel inserts shouldn't be that hard
or expensive to make out of foam board and epoxy, and
an aero shaped nose cone one the front might also be
beneficial.
John
--- Frank John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Phil Knox's truck is very inspiring:
>
> http://www.evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=870
>
> Why not work with what you've got?
>
>
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> Never miss an email again!
> Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail
> arrives.
> http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection.
Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta.
http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/features_spam.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Keep in mind that the nameplate rating for these
motors assumes you have a fan attached to the rotor
shaft. These fans are similar to those used in large
forklift DC motors. These are just small stamped fans
that are pressed on the rotor shaft and are just
smaller than the diameter of the motor, but it's
amazing how much cooling is created even with a small
amount of air flow. Without airflow and heavy loads
the motor will heat up and the stator magnets have
decreased field strength, which will lower motor
efficiency.
Since Roland has very little invested with these
motors, burning one up in the name of science would
not be a big expense!.
Have fun and let me know what your results are (a nice
spreadsheet with volts, amps, torque etc would be
nice). With this data we can all benefit in knowing
what they'll actually do in an EV application.
Thanks,
Rod
--- Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello Eduardo,
>
> I will start testing these motor at these voltages
> Sunday. I did one test
> at 60 volts at 7 amps turning a 15 volt load
> generator at 25 amps.
>
> I have to adjust my load banks for a higher ampere.
> The maximum ampere I
> can pull on these motors will be 22 amps at 2.75
> peak hp. This will be about
> 44 amps for two motors. The estimate ampere at 48
> volts should be about 22
> amps, but I will find these out when I do these
> test.
>
> Roland
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Eduardo Kaftanski" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 7:13 PM
> Subject: Re: [EV] Re: air conditioning, what do you
> guys do?
>
>
> > >
> > > The following is the results of the tests at no
> loads.
> > >
> > > Bat No Load No Load No Load
> Load Generator
> > > Size Volts Amps Rpm*
> Rpm**
> > >
> > > 90 98 5 7000
> 5700
> > > 84 89.6 4.8 6600
> 5077
> > > 78 83.2 4.5 6200
> 4670
> > > 72 76.7 4.3 5700
> 4385
> > > 66 70.5 4.2 5320
> 4090
> > > 60 63.7 4 4830
> 3715
> > > 54 57.5 3.7 4250
> 3270
> > > 48 51.2 3.5 3880
> 2985
> > > 42 44.5 3.3 3278
> 2521
> > > 36 37.8 3.2 2787
> 2143
> > > 30 31.8 3.1 2305
> 1773
> > > 24 25.4 3 1807
> 1390
> > > 18 18.9 2.8 1308
> 1013
> > > 12 12.6 2.5 825
> 634
> > >
> >
> > Roland,
> >
> > Can you please measure stall amps at 12 and 48
> volts for one of those
> > motors?
> >
> > I need to start one of these motors with a big
> load already attached and
> > want
> > to size the fuse and relay.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > --
> > Eduardo K. |
> > http://www.carfun.cl | Freedom's just another
> word
> > http://e.nn.cl | for nothing left to lose.
> > http://ev.nn.cl |
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Hower,
The maximum load I will pull on these motors is the name plate load of 22
amps for a very short time, a sec or two which is the peak 2.75 hp at a 60
to 12 volt volt input to determine how many motors or number of accessories
I can run with these.
I will preferred to operated these motors at 1/2 the name plate ampere at a
lower rpm and input voltage.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rod Hower" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 8:40 PM
Subject: Re: [EV] Re: air conditioning, what do you guys do?
> These are permanent magnet motors, with 4 magnets
> epoxied to the motor housing. I'm not sure what the
> magnet material is (I'll check some prints), but keep
> in mind that doing a stall test for too long may demag
> the stator magnets (or at least weaken the magnetic
> field, which will make them less efficient in normal
> operation).
> Rod
> --- Eduardo Kaftanski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > >
> > > The following is the results of the tests at no
> > loads.
> > >
> > > Bat No Load No Load No Load
> > Load Generator
> > > Size Volts Amps Rpm*
> > Rpm**
> > >
> > > 90 98 5 7000
> > 5700
> > > 84 89.6 4.8 6600
> > 5077
> > > 78 83.2 4.5 6200
> > 4670
> > > 72 76.7 4.3 5700
> > 4385
> > > 66 70.5 4.2 5320
> > 4090
> > > 60 63.7 4 4830
> > 3715
> > > 54 57.5 3.7 4250
> > 3270
> > > 48 51.2 3.5 3880
> > 2985
> > > 42 44.5 3.3 3278
> > 2521
> > > 36 37.8 3.2 2787
> > 2143
> > > 30 31.8 3.1 2305
> > 1773
> > > 24 25.4 3 1807
> > 1390
> > > 18 18.9 2.8 1308
> > 1013
> > > 12 12.6 2.5 825
> > 634
> > >
> >
> > Roland,
> >
> > Can you please measure stall amps at 12 and 48 volts
> > for one of those motors?
> >
> > I need to start one of these motors with a big load
> > already attached and want
> > to size the fuse and relay.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > --
> > Eduardo K. |
> > http://www.carfun.cl | Freedom's just another word
> > http://e.nn.cl | for nothing left to lose.
> > http://ev.nn.cl |
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My dual motor in back would actually keep the differential, feeding it
kindof like a boat drive.
I have done a lot of mold designs where the core needs to spin multiple
times so I have some ideas that go beyond the modding of existing castings.
1) make a new end that rotates on the 9" diameter, cables and all.
or
2) use a rack and pinion. You heard me! We mount the brush rigging on a
pair of bearings The shaft between these is the pinion. Through a reamed
cross-hole in this new motor end is a rack. as we push the rack in and
out the brush rigging rotates on the bearing
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have searched the patent record for nickel metal hydride batteries.
The earliest nickel battery patent i have found is through google new
and EXCELLENT patent search (they search much further back than the
uspatent office now and they offer easy digital images of patents
without registration like freepatentsonline.
1978
http://www.google.com/patents?vid=USPAT4214043&id=JIQ7AAAAEBAJ&dq=4214043
a 1088 filed patent is of a sealed nickel battery
http://www.google.com/patents?vid=USPAT4935318&id=YLwhAAAAEBAJ&pg=RA2-PA3&dq=nickel+metal+hydride+battery#PRA3-PA2-IA1,M1
the search nickel metal hydride battery
produces 5 pages of results.
http://www.google.com/patents?q=nickel+metal+hydride+battery&btnG=Search+Patents
I traced the ealriest patent to one it referenced which was number 4214043
GWMobile wrote:
It sertainly is a nickel metal hydride battery patent.
So at the VERY LEAST the nickel metal hydride use will expire in 7yrs or
less.
However if you look at the patents it refers to you may find early
nickel metal hydride patents which means the nickel metal hydride part
would expire sooner.
This patent seems to deal mostly with the thermal conductive case for a
large battery and not the nickle metal hydride which means there is
probably an earlier one.
On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 10:36 am, Bruce wrote:
I did a little searching to find the patent owned by Cobasys / Chevron
which
covers NiMH batteries for electric vehicles.
Is this the one?
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=5558950.PN.&OS=PN/5558950&RS=PN/5558950
or
http://snipurl.com/1am15
United States Patent 5,558,950
Ovshinsky, et al. September 24, 1996
Optimized cell pack for large sealed nickel-metal hydride batteries
A sealed prismatic metal hydride battery greater than 10 Ah in size
comprising a battery case of high thermal conductivity; and at least
one bundle of metal hydride electrodes of high thermal conductivity
in thermal contact with said battery case.
If this is it, and patents expire in 17 years, it will expire on Sept 24,
2013 which is less than 7 years from now.
Bruce
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: Bruce
>I wonder if it is really legal for Tangos to drive two abreast?
Hopefully Rick Woodbury is monitoring the EV list, and will provide a
definitive answer. But it is my understanding that the way the laws are
written, lane-splitting is already legal, even for the Tango.
--
Lee Hart
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Google has done it!
they now have a text searchable patent database all the way back to 1776!
those of you using the us patent office site know their text search only
goes back to about 1970 something.
now finally we can text search old electric car patents for revealing
and good ideas!
Be aware that because the old patents were digitized and converted to
text via optical character recognition that sometimes words are mangled.
Go to the "advanced patent search" items and limit your searches by
early dates for some really fascinating patents!
such as this one for the electric battery in patents ranging from 1776
to 1852!
http://www.google.com/patents?num=100&q=electric+battery&btnG=Search+Patents&as_drrb_is=b&as_minm_is=1&as_miny_is=1776&as_maxm_is=1&as_maxy_is=1852
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Get a 5 watt 120 volt light bulb. (Like a night light.)
Connect clip leads to it. Connect it between the chassis and the
positive end of the battery pack. If it doesn't light up, repeat the
ground fault test you did before. Connect it between the chassis the
negative end and repeat. The bulb should pull the ground fault to the
end of the pack. If it does this, and it doesn't light up, you have
an acid spray "current leak."
The acid spray is leaking enough current to cause a minor
ground fault. Wash the tops of the batteries with Windex and rinse
with plain water and that should make your "phantom" ground fault go
away, at least for awhile.
If you can't get enough current though the ground fault to
light a 5 watt bulb dimly, you probably can't get enough current to
kill you. You can get enough to scare you quite well and perhaps you
will injure yourself jumping away, however.
Bill Dube'
At 03:34 PM 2/24/2007, you wrote:
My apologies for such a long post!! I felt that it was needed to
explain the situation.
In late October I replaced the batteries in my EV with 18 US 2000
batteries for a pack voltage of 108. I have numbered my batteries
from 1 the negative post of which connects to the negative terminal
of the system and number 18 positive post connecting to the positive
terminal of the system. On December 28 I added two more US 2000
batteries to increase the pack to 120 volts. At this point battery
number 1 was on the negative end of the pack and battery number 20
was at the positive end of the pack. I also changed the DC/DC
converter to accommodate the extra voltage. I installed a regular
electrical box to make the connection between the pack and the DC/DC
converter. Prior to this the chassis and pack voltage was isolated
except when the charger was connected to the 120 volt AC
source. When the charger was connected to the AC source the
chassis voltage was midway between the charger output. I did not
check to see if this was still true until mid February.
On February l3 I decided to check to see if the chassis and the pack
were isolated. To my surprise I discovered that there was a
potential exiting between the pack and the chassis.
I had not driven the car for 13 days and the pack voltage was
126.8. The negative terminal of the pack was 66.3 volts negative in
relation to the chassis. The positive terminal of the pack was 12.2
volts positive in relation to the chassis. The potential spread was
78.5 volts. The potential switched polarity in battery number
17. The negative post of battery number 17 was 2.1 volts negative
in relation to the chassis and the positive post was 1.6 volts
positive in relation to the chassis. I completely disconnected the
charger from the pack. The wires which connect the charger were
disconnected in the trunk of the car so they still run below the
body to the pack connections under the hood. This did not make any
difference. I unplugged the DC/DC from the pack. This did not make
difference. The 120 volt socket was still connected to the pack. I
removed the plug and found that it was taped with electrical tape
where the wires from the pack were connected. Also the wires were
protected where they entered the box.
Thirteen days later I checked these measurements again. The car had
not been driven. The total pack voltage was 125.8. The negative
terminal of the pack was 64.6 volts negative in relation to the
chassis. The positive terminal of the pack was 4.0 volts positive
in relation to the chassis. The potential spread was 68.6
volts. However, now the switch in polarity occurred in battery
number 19. The negative post of battery 19 is 0.6 volts negative in
relation to the chassis and the positive post is 1.5 volts positive
in relation to the chassis.
Since the total voltage of the pack has dropped only 1 volt in 13
days it does not seem that this situation is causing a drain on the
pack. All of the cable have extra protection where they pass through metal.
I am looking for suggestions as to what has happened to cause a
potential between the pack and the chassis except when the charger
is connected to the AC source.
"Beano" 1981 Escort EV
Ted Sanders
_________________________________________________________________
Mortgage rates as low as 4.625% - Refinance $150,000 loan for $579 a
month. Intro*Terms
https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&search=mortgage_text_links_88_h27f6&disc=y&vers=743&s=4056&p=5117
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Three pages of original Tesla electrical patents from the late 1800's here!
http://www.google.com/patents?num=100&q=tesla&btnG=Search+Patents&as_drrb_is=b&as_minm_is=1&as_miny_is=1776&as_maxm_is=1&as_maxy_is=1934
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
nice! that's the kind of lightweight bare-bones vehicle possible,
nothing exotic or difficult really. give it a hinged plexiglas canopy
and you won't get wet. If I may make a suggestion, the taillights really
give it an old look, make some some that follow the rear outlines like
the crude attached photo.
jack
Paul G. wrote:
On Feb 24, 2007, at 5:07 PM, David Roden wrote:
3. If crashworthiness is of little concern in your priorities, many EV
avenues are open to you.
Like <http://evalbum.com/125.html> or <http://www.evfun.com>.
Sorry, I couldn't resist David! I think I may be *safer* as a
pedestrian, but wouldn't have nearly so much fun (and I don't like to
walk 10 miles one way :-) None of those pictures show it but it lacks
seat belts too (1964, not required.) I'm not sure they would help much
anyway.
If it would quite raining I would drive it now (already have driven it
once this year.) I keep reminding myself that summer is coming...
Paul "neon" G.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED--- *
* This post contains a forbidden message format *
* (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) *
* Lists at sjsu.edu only accept PLAIN TEXT *
* If your postings display this message your mail program *
* is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
--- End Message ---
