EV Digest 6552
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: 640hp Mini (BMW) converted by PML and partners .. UK
by david woolard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Question about optimal gear ratio and where to get
gearboxes
by Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: 640hp Mini (BMW) converted by PML and partners .. UK
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Non-Hydraulic Brakes
by Mark Brueggemann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Killacycle comes to the Wayland Invitational III
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: 640hp Mini (BMW) converted by PML and partners .. UK
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Custom windshield
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) hub motors and PML
by "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: 640hp Mini (BMW) converted by PML and partners .. UK
by david woolard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: EV space suit (was BugE again)
by "Kip C. Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Question about optimal gear ratio and where to get gearboxes
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: EV digest 6549
by Pascal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Killacycle comes to the Wayland Invitational III
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Killacycle comes to the Wayland Invitational III
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: State by State EV Incentives and Regulations?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
16) seimen's vdo with ebw
by "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Custom windshield
by "mike young" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) hub motors, controllers from the makers of Yobyke
by "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Motor Mania Calendar (mostly OT, except for the Electric Motor part)
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: seimen's vdo with ebw .. err .. ewb !
by "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: State by State EV Incentives and Regulations?
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Converting a 2000 Subaru outback?
by "Mitch Patenaude" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: 640hp Mini (BMW) converted by PML and partners .. UK
by Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: seimen's vdo with ebw
by david woolard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Converting a 2000 Subaru outback?
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Custom windshield
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Question about optimal gear ratio and where to get gearboxes
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: EV space suit (was BugE again)
by Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
--- Kaido Kert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Just a related question. why are the "mechanical"
> brakes considered an
> absolute necessity ? ( by mechanical, i think most
> people mean normal
> hydraulically operated disc brakes )
Dave here: Good point, I had just assumed these were
a no-no but i've had a look at the Yurpeen regulations
and surprisingly electric brakes would meet the
requirements and be legal for road use.
> i mean, shorting the wires of async or brushless dc
> electric motor is
> pretty reliable way to force the emergency brakes
> on, only way to make
> the wheels turn again would be melting the copper or
> motor falling
> apart.
Their wheel motors have a built in brake resistor, and
a mechanical hand/park brake option. So things aren't
quite as bad as first thought - the overall increase
in unsprung weight is minimal as the mechanical brakes
are not legally required.
Cheers
Dave W
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--- Begin Message ---
Chain or toothed belt drives are the simplest. A car transmission
works pretty good too.
The motor is not what needs protection. You need some sort of
compliant member in the drive line to protect the transmission. When
the car goes over potholes and RR tracks, the torque spikes going
back through the drive line can be enormous. The fatigue life of the
gears (or chain, and bearings...) is set by the size of the peak
loads. Without a torsion spring or a slipping clutch, the torque
peaks climb to huge values as they bounce, undamped, back and forth
through the drive line.
The transmission won't last very long without a clutch or
the springs in the center of the clutch.
Bill Dube'
At 03:27 AM 3/14/2007, you wrote:
I hear the number 10:1 thrown around, and it's also used in custom
gearboxes for the AC24, and MES DEA motors.
I'm wondering, given a motor torque/rpm curve, how would one
calculate the optimal gear ratio? Efficiency, acceleration, top
speed, etc, would all have to be balanced. I'm not sure where to
begin. Also, where does one get a custom gearbox/diff made? I did
some googling and couldn't find anything except custom racing
transmissions which I don't need. I need just a one ratio gearbox.
Would a torque limiter, or something that allows slip, be needed to
protect the motor?
- Tony
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Dave,
Would you please tell me (us) where to find the specifications and price for
these wheel motors? I have looked and looked. Found the web site and a few
articles. Nothing over a few KW.
Thanks,
Jeff
david woolard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
In support of PML I have to say that their BLDC wheel
motors do seem to be quite sophisticated. They also do
sell their motors to individuals, unlike a few other
EV technology companies.
The PML mini is certainly over-hyped but the wheels
were artificially spaced out during the car shows to
"emphasise" the wheel motors, again probably down to
the marketing dept. In normal use (although with no
mech. brakes, there is no normal use) they would be in
their usual inset position.
Cheers
DaveW
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--- Begin Message ---
> > Just a related question. why are the "mechanical"
> > brakes considered an
> > absolute necessity ? ( by mechanical, i think most
> > people mean normal
> > hydraulically operated disc brakes )
Not regenerative, but electronically controlled:
<http://www.siemensvdo.com/press/releases/chassisandcarbody/2006/SV-200611-001-e.htm>
Mark "EV Basher" Brueggemann
Albuquerque, NM
S-10 EV
Mark K5LXP
Albuquerque, NM
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
The NEDRA sanctioned 'Wayland Invitational III' is scheduled for a two
day run this year, July 13-14, Friday and Saturday, at Portland
International Raceway (PIR). This is going to be one great EVent! As the
title suggests, I 'invite' other electric drag racers to come help me
beat up a few gas cars :-), but of course, everyone's automatically invited.
I 'did' make a personal call though, to Bill Dube' and gave he and his
crew the invite...they accepted! This July folks in the Pacific NW will
be treated to the world's quickest accelerating street legal electric
sedan 'and' the world's quickest accelerating electric
motorcycle....both at the track together!
With the April issue of Hot Rod magazine featuring Bill's bike, and the
May issue of Car and Driver right around the corner featuring Rod Wilde
and his Gone Postal, Father Time and his drag bike, Otmar and his 914
Porsche, and their own Ted West with White Zombie, there's enough press
circulating to get folks pumped up about seeing some seriously fast EVs
at the track! I can hardly wait to watch stunned race fans salivate over
an electric vehicle scorching down the track in 8 seconds!
In addition to Bill's machine, there's going to be other really quick
EVs, plus lots of street EVs on display as well. The traditional
'Electric Breakfast' will happen on Saturday, which includes the EV show
& shine EVent at the Village Inn restaurant.
I will also make sure to have press coverage before and after this EVent
as well, so its likely that articles will follow.
2007 marks the 10 year anniversary of NEDRA, and I'm pulling out all the
stops for this EVent! If anyone wants to have a fun two day vacation,
this is one you might want to book a flight into Portland for. It's
starting to feel like 1997 all over again!
Gotta go...I've got more phone calls to make.
See Ya.....John Wayland
PS: Jim, tell your mama you're booked that weekend!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill,
You must have missed the "Specifications" listing an "Energy re-circulator -
1400Amp continuous IGBT.....". That would do, right?
Jeff
Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
A little bit of simple arithmetic pegs the BS meter. If there were
zero voltage sag and 100% electrical efficiency, all the listed power
sources in the car, batteries, ultracaps, and APU don't add up to 640 HP.
Bill D.
At 01:12 AM 3/13/2007, you wrote:
>http://www.worldcarfans.com/news.cfm/newsID/2060724.006/page/2/country/ecf/lang/eng/mini/pml-builds-640hp-electric-mini
>
>amazing specs .. and with a 4 yr effort concentrated on producing
>only two converted
>bmw mini's it looks like very serious research
>
>i dunno if any of us can suggest improvements in any areas which
>they have already
>covered .. ultra-caps, 250cc engine-generator(20kw), 160hp hub motors in EACH
>wheel to give a total of 640hp .. 0 to 100 in under 5 seconds ..
>with almost complete
>recovery of energy by braking ONLY in regenerative mode .. 1000
>times per second
>sensing of hub motor in tyre and compensatory increase/decrease of
>energy to other
>tyres .. touch screen input based displays .. and a heavy enough car
>(crash safety)
>
>..peekay
---------------------------------
Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A little off-topic, but does anyone have a good source for someone that
can make a custom windshield, and what that might cost?
Jack
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
i guess it is only fair to acknowledge that PML is a
proper company which has evolved from printed pancake
motors to hub motors .. being an english company, they
would not be exisiting if they didn't make what they claim
they DO have a wide variety of motors .. round long bodied
and hub types too
----- Original Message -----
From: "david woolard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 5:41 PM
Subject: Re: 640hp Mini (BMW) converted by PML and partners .. UK
> In support of PML I have to say that their BLDC wheel
> motors do seem to be quite sophisticated. They also do
> sell their motors to individuals, unlike a few other
> EV technology companies.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Would you please tell me (us) where to find the
> specifications and price for these wheel motors? I
> have looked and looked. Found the web site and a
> few articles. Nothing over a few KW.
I've posted the data sheets that i've got at:
http://tinyurl.com/yuegvs .
I can't give you any first hand info on price but,
second hand, I remember reading on this list a while
back that a 5kw wheel motor was £1500 ($2900) and the
apropriate controller was £2500 ($4800). So I hate to
think what their higher power systems cost.
Cheers
DaveW
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--- Begin Message ---
Some auto manufacturers are now offering 'cooling seat' options. Perhaps
EV'ers could replicate the effect with a mess of peltiers stuck to the back
of a seat.
Then again, except for extreme heat, just having a ventilated back and fans
blowing could make a huge dent in comfort.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 7:43 PM
Subject: EV space suit (was BugE again)
With one key distinction: weather protection - sort of.
Here's a stupid question - sort of. :-)
Somewhere I saw a photo of one of the NASA astronauts all suited up in his
space suit, complete with the portable battery operated air conditioner
'suitcase' that they carry. He was riding a motorcycle. :-)
Since then, I've always wondered why someone hasn't built a terrestrial
version of a space suit that provides environmental protection, air
conditioning, communications, and even a drink and a light snack :-)
Yes, they are heavy and it takes power to run them. But, if you're riding
a motorcycle, you're sitting down and right on the power source. Same is
true for driving a car -- instead of air-conditioning the whole car, just
air condition the driver.
Think of it as a deluxe version of a nomex "cold suit" that race car
drivers use, with little tubes circulating water from an ice chest.
Couldn't this get the power consumption needed to make the driver
comfortable a lot lower?
--
Lee Hart
--
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7:19 PM
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--- Begin Message ---
Hello Tony,
I first start out with this formula when designing any prime mover system:
RPM x Tire Circumference
RPM = --------------------------
Overall Gear Ratio x 1056
To find the tire circumference, mark a reference point on the floor and tire
and rotate the tire until the tire mark is touching the floor and measure
between the marks.
The overall gear ratio is the transmission gear in the selected gear you are
in times the differential gear ratio.
For example, my 1st gear ratio is 3.5:1 and the differential ratio is
5.57:1, so the overall ratio in 1st gear is 3.5 x 5.57 = 19.495:1
My wheel circumference is 90 inches and maximum motor rpm is 6000 rpm, so:
6000 x 90
mph = ------------ = 26.23 mph in 1st gear
19.495 x 1056
I can accelerated to 25 mph moving 7000 lbs of weight at a normal
acceleration of any of vehicle in traffic and the maximum ampere will peak
to about 300 amps, then at cruse at 25 mph, the motor amperes comes back to
125 amps.
In second gear which is a 13.5:1 overall ratio, the motor amps goes to about
500 amps if I start out in this gear.
TCI Automotive makes up transmissions with any gear ratio you want, which I
am going to test out this year.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Hwang" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 4:27 AM
Subject: Question about optimal gear ratio and where to get gearboxes
> I hear the number 10:1 thrown around, and it's also used in custom
> gearboxes for the AC24, and MES DEA motors.
>
> I'm wondering, given a motor torque/rpm curve, how would one calculate the
> optimal gear ratio? Efficiency, acceleration, top speed, etc, would all
> have to be balanced. I'm not sure where to begin. Also, where does one get
> a custom gearbox/diff made? I did some googling and couldn't find anything
> except custom racing transmissions which I don't need. I need just a one
> ratio gearbox. Would a torque limiter, or something that allows slip, be
> needed to protect the motor?
>
> - Tony
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Jim,
I'm located in the Netherlands, since there is almost
nothing here for EV's I am 'forced' to use this list
and your experience :)
There is 1 company here in the Netherlands which sells
EV's (@ US$ 35,000.--) so that's way over my budget
Pascal
>Hey Pascal
>
>Where are you located??
>
>Location can have an impact on available options for
>obtaining cores. James Massey for example has a
>tougher time finding them compared to someone living
>in the states. As just another example Dan (my shop
>neighbor) just told me a couple days ago that "our"
>local scrap yard just recieved a couple of
palletjacks
>which have6.7" motors in them. I just need to run
>over there and grab them up before he does, LMAO!
>Luckily he didn't have a wrench with him on his
visit,
>hehe. You can't go just once and call it good. you
>have to visit them frequently to get those diamonds
in
>the rough.
>hope this helps
>
>Cya
>
>Jim Husted
____________________________________________________________________________________
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--- Begin Message ---
Hey Wayland, Bill, all
What awesome news! Although I'm sure John's been
working his little fingers to the bone on this, I'd
like to think I had at least a small >< part in
helping to entice Killacycle out here to the west 8^)
In as much as I have enjoyed all the EV motors I've
built, there are those project that just stand out for
me. Being able to watch them run is an added bonus to
which I find few words can describe.
Anyway I can't wait! Hopefully this will help bring a
fun and large crowd out to help support NEDRA, PIR for
their friendly EV Power plugs, and all the dailies out
there to come show off their wares, as well as all
that the Wayland juice bar has to offer 8^)
If watching WZ and Killacycle racing down the same
track on the same day isn't enough, come on out and
meet the motor dork himself as I Mother Hen over my
motors being tortured 8^P I'll be sure to bring a
motor out for raffle so some lucky person can bring
home something more than the fun memories of a great
time with the crazy EVers that will invade PIR this
July.
As for my mother, I might just have to bring her
along, see if chasing John with a broom stick don't
help him understand why I listen to her, LMAO!
Anyway what an awesome email to read this morning!
Got to run
Cya all there
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
--- John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello to All,
>
> The NEDRA sanctioned 'Wayland Invitational III' is
> scheduled for a two
> day run this year, July 13-14, Friday and Saturday,
> at Portland
> International Raceway (PIR). This is going to be one
> great EVent! As the
> title suggests, I 'invite' other electric drag
> racers to come help me
> beat up a few gas cars :-), but of course,
> everyone's automatically invited.
>
> I 'did' make a personal call though, to Bill Dube'
> and gave he and his
> crew the invite...they accepted! This July folks in
> the Pacific NW will
> be treated to the world's quickest accelerating
> street legal electric
> sedan 'and' the world's quickest accelerating
> electric
> motorcycle....both at the track together!
>
> With the April issue of Hot Rod magazine featuring
> Bill's bike, and the
> May issue of Car and Driver right around the corner
> featuring Rod Wilde
> and his Gone Postal, Father Time and his drag bike,
> Otmar and his 914
> Porsche, and their own Ted West with White Zombie,
> there's enough press
> circulating to get folks pumped up about seeing some
> seriously fast EVs
> at the track! I can hardly wait to watch stunned
> race fans salivate over
> an electric vehicle scorching down the track in 8
> seconds!
>
> In addition to Bill's machine, there's going to be
> other really quick
> EVs, plus lots of street EVs on display as well. The
> traditional
> 'Electric Breakfast' will happen on Saturday, which
> includes the EV show
> & shine EVent at the Village Inn restaurant.
> I will also make sure to have press coverage before
> and after this EVent
> as well, so its likely that articles will follow.
>
> 2007 marks the 10 year anniversary of NEDRA, and I'm
> pulling out all the
> stops for this EVent! If anyone wants to have a fun
> two day vacation,
> this is one you might want to book a flight into
> Portland for. It's
> starting to feel like 1997 all over again!
>
> Gotta go...I've got more phone calls to make.
>
> See Ya.....John Wayland
>
> PS: Jim, tell your mama you're booked that weekend!
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
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--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Wayland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 9:11 AM
Subject: Killacycle comes to the Wayland Invitational III
> Hello to All,
>
> The NEDRA sanctioned 'Wayland Invitational III' is scheduled for a two
> day run this year, July 13-14, Friday and Saturday, at Portland
> International Raceway (PIR). This is going to be one great EVent!
Hi John an' EVerybody;
I'm probably rightly assuming that this will be the "Woodburn" EVent of
years past, or what it has 'morphed into?? Great! Hafta plan to leave a
month earlier to get to the races on time.I'll do my Prius Pilgrimage, to
PDX.
Seeya There?
Bob..........anybody ELSE?
As the
> title suggests, I 'invite' other electric drag racers to come help me
> beat up a few gas cars :-), but of course, everyone's automatically
invited.
>
> I 'did' make a personal call though, to Bill Dube' and gave he and his
> crew the invite...they accepted! This July folks in the Pacific NW will
> be treated to the world's quickest accelerating street legal electric
> sedan 'and' the world's quickest accelerating electric
> motorcycle....both at the track together!
>
> With the April issue of Hot Rod magazine featuring Bill's bike, and the
> May issue of Car and Driver right around the corner featuring Rod Wilde
> and his Gone Postal, Father Time and his drag bike, Otmar and his 914
> Porsche, and their own Ted West with White Zombie, there's enough press
> circulating to get folks pumped up about seeing some seriously fast EVs
> at the track! I can hardly wait to watch stunned race fans salivate over
> an electric vehicle scorching down the track in 8 seconds!
>
> In addition to Bill's machine, there's going to be other really quick
> EVs, plus lots of street EVs on display as well. The traditional
> 'Electric Breakfast' will happen on Saturday, which includes the EV show
> & shine EVent at the Village Inn restaurant.
> I will also make sure to have press coverage before and after this EVent
> as well, so its likely that articles will follow.
>
> 2007 marks the 10 year anniversary of NEDRA, and I'm pulling out all the
> stops for this EVent! If anyone wants to have a fun two day vacation,
> this is one you might want to book a flight into Portland for. It's
> starting to feel like 1997 all over again!
>
> Gotta go...I've got more phone calls to make.
>
> See Ya.....John Wayland
>
> PS: Jim, tell your mama you're booked that weekend!
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.413 / Virus Database: 268.18.9/719 - Release Date: 3/12/07
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roland> It is best to down load each State income tax credit forms,
Roland> which should list the any type of credits for alternative type
Roland> of energy.
Sounds like a good task to tackle in a distributed fashion, one or two
people per state... ;-)
--
Skip Montanaro - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.webfast.com/~skip/
"The hippies and the hipsters did some great stuff in the sixties,
but the geeks pulled their weight too." -- Billy Bragg
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tLQ2-yKT4Y
shows siemens is putting its bets on hub motors .. but
mechanical brakes (no regen) .. AND a lot of other
hi-tech ideas
same thing as bruce's link to :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tLQ2-yKT4Y
..peekay
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--- Begin Message ---
probably any glass shop
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Murray" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 11:11 AM
Subject: Custom windshield
A little off-topic, but does anyone have a good source for someone that
can make a custom windshield, and what that might cost?
Jack
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
the makers of YoBykes are basically from a very different
background .. they used to make induction furnaces .. and
have hundreds of successful installations which melt scrap
and cast ingots, castings etc
they have a strong background on the very very high amps
and frequencies needed for very high capacity induction
furnaces (upto 10 tons per charge .. and the current MELTS
the stuff !)
these guys are making hub motors for their ebikes .. inhouse ..
they experimented with buses too .. but put it off for now ..
they will be coming out with cars in the near future ..
i guess their hub motors and controllers will be very rugged
and cheap too .. dunno about chinese competition though :-((
..peekay
i was in talks with them for taking their dealership .. and was
surprised to find that they are selling cheaper .. and that they
were selling with either NiCad or Li-Ion battery !
----- Original Message -----
From: "david woolard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 7:53 PM
Subject: Re: 640hp Mini (BMW) converted by PML and partners .. UK
>
> --- Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Would you please tell me (us) where to find the
> > specifications and price for these wheel motors? I
> > have looked and looked. Found the web site and a
> > few articles. Nothing over a few KW.
>
> I've posted the data sheets that i've got at:
> http://tinyurl.com/yuegvs .
>
> I can't give you any first hand info on price but,
> second hand, I remember reading on this list a while
> back that a 5kw wheel motor was £1500 ($2900) and the
> apropriate controller was £2500 ($4800). So I hate to
> think what their higher power systems cost.
>
> Cheers
> DaveW
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> What kind of emailer are you? Find out today - get a free analysis of your
email personality. Take the quiz at the Yahoo! Mail Championship.
> http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=44106/*http://mail.yahoo.net/uk
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.10/720 - Release Date: 3/12/2007
7:19 PM
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi Jim, James(Tecnik) and Mike, Hell! EVerybody ELSE too;
Great thread, don't read it while drinking anything<g>! A suggestion or
two for the "Motor" calander; Jim and James, a split pix cuz they are apart
a bit in distances. Maybe with their motors in the fore ground?Gotta have
Zombie's Siamese motor Pin-up pix in the July pix?A Siamese Warp 9" inch ,
IF it is built yet? Any month. One of those million HP Hub motors, they have
been talking(Torque-ing) about on here.Oh! And a few towed-in-first-gear
dead motors, before and after Jim works his magic?
Dive in, guyz! Other reveiling pix? This could be a Fun thing?
Seeya
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Willmon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 4:02 AM
Subject: RE: Motor Mania Calendar (mostly OT, except for the Electric Motor
part)
> First for the record, "I" never mentioned your wife.
>
> Second the same goes for me when reading your posts. I just about bruised
a rib reading the posts about your evil twin with the
> Darth Vader voice, Internet Motor School and John stuffing his donut hole
with Krispy Creams. You should have taken a whole box
> and told him to charge John for suckering you like that ;-) My wife took
it as a special moment actually seeing me crying.
>
> And third now that you mention it I didn't see any electric motors in
those pics either. It must have been the subliminal message
> at the bottom that said "Electric Motor Service". You know, if your
calendar actually had pictures of motors you wouldn't even
> have to add the words at the bottom. With all these guys earning their own
lumps and owing you pictures you shouldn't have to do
> any extra work when you get them. Maybe just comb the archives and
include one of your gut busting quips on each months feature.
> Maybe change the Calendar title to Motor Madness by Jim "aren't you guys
glad I got all of my evil out when I was young" Husted.
> Or Motor Stuffing by Jim "shoulda grabbed a whole box of those Krispy
Creams" Husted ;-P
>
> BTW, so this thread bears some semblance to its title (and assuming David
reads this far without busting me first), we ordered our
> TWarp9 and WarP9 pair last Friday for the Pinto. If George at NetGain is
reading maybe he could let us know when the TWarP9's come
> off the line. If I divert the shipment your way could we talk you into a
comm banding on the pair? You can EVen take pictures as
> long as you don't label them in your calendar as "The Evil Twins". I'll
also need to get your input on where to set the Redline
> on these two beasties with and without banding. I promise I'll put the
RPM sensor on right away. Don't need these guys showing
> up on no Hall of Flame Calendar :-O Especially if you're going to sell it
and make money ;-)
>
> Mike,
> Anchorage, Ak.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Behalf Of Jim Husted
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 4:13 PM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: Re: Motor Mania Calendar (mostly OT, except for the Electric
> > Motor part)
> >
> >
> >
> > Hey Mike
> >
> > First off I have to make this quick before the wife
> > gets home cause she says I can't talk to you no more
> > cause you called her ugly! LMAO!
> >
> > Second, I've got to learn to not be drinking anything
> > when I read your posts, ROF.
> >
> > Third, I knew what you meant, but there wasn't a motor
> > in that calender, not that I saw anyway 8^o
> >
> > oops there's David gotta run, hey I didn't start this
> > thread, get Mike, I thought I sent this private, LMAO
> >
> > Had fun
> > Cya
> > Jim Husted
> > Hi-Torque Electric
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
____________________________________________________________________________
________
> > Finding fabulous fares is fun.
> > Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight
and hotel bargains.
> > http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.413 / Virus Database: 268.18.9/719 - Release Date: 3/12/07
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
that shoud be ewb (electric wedge brake)
and bruce's article shd be :
http://www.siemensvdo.com/press/releases/chassisandcarbody/2006/SV-200611-00
1-e.htm
..peekay
----- Original Message -----
From: "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 8:37 PM
Subject: seimen's vdo with ebw
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tLQ2-yKT4Y
>
> shows siemens is putting its bets on hub motors .. but
> mechanical brakes (no regen) .. AND a lot of other
> hi-tech ideas
>
> same thing as bruce's link to :
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tLQ2-yKT4Y
>
> ..peekay
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> Try the all-new Yahoo! Mail. "The New Version is radically easier to
use" - The Wall Street Journal
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>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.10/720 - Release Date: 3/12/2007
7:19 PM
>
>
___________________________________________________________
To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo!
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--- Begin Message ---
Go here
http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/progs/ddown_matrx.cgi
Then leave everything as "all" except the fuel category, it will generate a
listing for all states incentives and if they have regulations to allow NEV's
on public roads as well.
Rick
---------------------------------
Don't pick lemons.
See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm toying with the idea of converting a 2000 Subaru outback to an EV.
I've seen idle chatter in the archives about taking a wrx or impreza
and removing the ICE, transmission, and center diff and using 2
electric motors to drive the remaining two diffs.
What are people's general thoughts on this approach? does it translate
well to the heavier outback?
What are the +/- of losing the transmission (It seems obvious that if
you lose the tranny, that you have to have a motor controller capable
of driving the motors in reverse, but I don't know if that means you
need a significantly more expensive controller)
-- Mitch
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If the energy sources can't provide the 640 HP, it can't come out of
the wheels to the road.
I have no clue what an "energy recirculator" is. Perhaps it utilizes
the principle of "marsal plane capacitive diractance" mentioned in
the "Retro Encabulator" informational video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtuqjFf7-N4
Bill Dube'
At 08:07 AM 3/14/2007, you wrote:
Bill,
You must have missed the "Specifications" listing an "Energy
re-circulator - 1400Amp continuous IGBT.....". That would do, right?
Jeff
Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
A little bit of simple arithmetic pegs the BS meter. If there were
zero voltage sag and 100% electrical efficiency, all the listed power
sources in the car, batteries, ultracaps, and APU don't add up to 640 HP.
Bill D.
At 01:12 AM 3/13/2007, you wrote:
>http://www.worldcarfans.com/news.cfm/newsID/2060724.006/page/2/coun
try/ecf/lang/eng/mini/pml-builds-640hp-electric-mini
>
>amazing specs .. and with a 4 yr effort concentrated on producing
>only two converted
>bmw mini's it looks like very serious research
>
>i dunno if any of us can suggest improvements in any areas which
>they have already
>covered .. ultra-caps, 250cc engine-generator(20kw), 160hp hub
motors in EACH
>wheel to give a total of 640hp .. 0 to 100 in under 5 seconds ..
>with almost complete
>recovery of energy by braking ONLY in regenerative mode .. 1000
>times per second
>sensing of hub motor in tyre and compensatory increase/decrease of
>energy to other
>tyres .. touch screen input based displays .. and a heavy enough car
>(crash safety)
>
>..peekay
---------------------------------
Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- peekay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tLQ2-yKT4Y
>
> shows siemens is putting its bets on hub motors ..
> but
> mechanical brakes (no regen) .. AND a lot of other
> hi-tech ideas
Like the sliding pillar suspension they show in the
video? Not really what I would put in the 'advanced'
category! That'll make for some nice lively rolling
and sliding action as soon as it tries to go round a
corner.
Cheers
DaveW
___________________________________________________________
Inbox full of unwanted email? Get leading protection and 1GB storage with All
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> What are people's general thoughts on this approach? does it translate
> well to the heavier outback?
If you are not going to use a transmission, then you need to use larger
(or more) motors and more powerfull (or dual) controllers.
You have to run the reduction ratio low enough that you won't over-rev the
motor(s) at your maximum design road speed. This means that the motor(s)
have to produce a trmendous amount of torque in order to have acceptable
hill climbing ability and acceleration.
The above is doubly true when doing a heavy conversion. I.e. you'll
possibly need even LARGER motors and more powerful controllers.
> What are the +/- of losing the transmission (It seems obvious that if
> you lose the tranny, that you have to have a motor controller capable
> of driving the motors in reverse, but I don't know if that means you
> need a significantly more expensive controller)
Actually, if you are using AC motors, most of their controllers include
reverse anyway. If you are using series wound DC motors, then what you
need is a set of reversing contactors (the controller doesn't care which
direction the motor is going). Reversing contactors change the way the
motor is wired in order to get it to run in reverse. Reversing contactors
are fairly expensive, IIRC around $300-$400.
Some motor controllers (Trex?) include the ability to coordinate/control
reversing contactors, but it isn't strictly required.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Custom windshields? I'm guessing that would be VERY expensive. You might
consider spending some time in a well stocked junk yard and finding out if
some vehicle out there has a windshield close enough to what you want.
Then order a new one.
You might be able to have an existing windshield trimmed down.
> A little off-topic, but does anyone have a good source for someone that
> can make a custom windshield, and what that might cost?
> Jack
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you are going to use a single reduction ratio, you can NOT get an
optimum ratio for everything.
There are basically two things that destroy motors, too much current or
too high an RPM.
If you pick a ratio that is optimized for low speed acceleration, then you
either won't be able to reach your top speed or you will destroy your
motor in the attempt.
So what you do is pick a ratio that allows you to just reach your top
design speed, without over-revving the motor, and go with that one. If
that ratio requires to much torque from your motor/controller, then you
need to buy a bigger motor/controller. If that is not acceptable, then
you'll need to live with higher ratio reduction (more torque at the
wheels) and a lower top speed. If neither of these options are
acceptable, then you'll need to go with a multispeed transmission. And if
that's not acceptable, then you'll probably need to find a new hobby ;-)
> I hear the number 10:1 thrown around, and it's also used in custom
> gearboxes for the AC24, and MES DEA motors.
>
> I'm wondering, given a motor torque/rpm curve, how would one calculate the
> optimal gear ratio? Efficiency, acceleration, top speed, etc, would all
> have to be balanced. I'm not sure where to begin. Also, where does one get
> a custom gearbox/diff made? I did some googling and couldn't find anything
> except custom racing transmissions which I don't need. I need just a one
> ratio gearbox. Would a torque limiter, or something that allows slip, be
> needed to protect the motor?
>
> - Tony
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have used a mesh backed seat in my EV during the hot
texas summer. It made a huge difference in my confort
compared to the regular vinyl or even cloth covered
seats. With those I was a puddle in just 11 miles.
With a mesh backed seat with a blower I was hot but
wasn't soaked in fact I was hardly perspiring at all.
It did work a little better with ice packs while
they'd last.
--- "Kip C. Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Some auto manufacturers are now offering 'cooling
> seat' options. Perhaps
> EV'ers could replicate the effect with a mess of
> peltiers stuck to the back
> of a seat.
>
> Then again, except for extreme heat, just having a
> ventilated back and fans
> blowing could make a huge dent in comfort.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 7:43 PM
> Subject: EV space suit (was BugE again)
>
>
> >> With one key distinction: weather protection -
> sort of.
> >
> > Here's a stupid question - sort of. :-)
> >
> > Somewhere I saw a photo of one of the NASA
> astronauts all suited up in his
> > space suit, complete with the portable battery
> operated air conditioner
> > 'suitcase' that they carry. He was riding a
> motorcycle. :-)
> >
> > Since then, I've always wondered why someone
> hasn't built a terrestrial
> > version of a space suit that provides
> environmental protection, air
> > conditioning, communications, and even a drink and
> a light snack :-)
> >
> > Yes, they are heavy and it takes power to run
> them. But, if you're riding
> > a motorcycle, you're sitting down and right on the
> power source. Same is
> > true for driving a car -- instead of
> air-conditioning the whole car, just
> > air condition the driver.
> >
> > Think of it as a deluxe version of a nomex "cold
> suit" that race car
> > drivers use, with little tubes circulating water
> from an ice chest.
> >
> > Couldn't this get the power consumption needed to
> make the driver
> > comfortable a lot lower?
> > --
> > Lee Hart
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.10/720 -
> Release Date: 3/12/2007
> > 7:19 PM
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
