EV Digest 6561
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: I have been running experiments with high cap NiMH in parallel with
AGM Lead Acid
by Frank John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) battery posts
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: flybo EV
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: flybo EV
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Power boost concepts
by Frank John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Lee's BMS?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Altairnano Ultimatum
by Sam Maynard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Xenon Headlamp and LED Tail Lamp Conversions
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Xenon Headlamp and LED Tail Lamp Conversions (long, sorry)
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Xenon Headlamp and LED Tail Lamp Conversions (long, sorry)
by Tony Hwang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Bob Schneveis' Walking Electric Chariot
by "bortel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Transistor springs / clamps
by Patrick Donnelly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Transistor springs / clamps
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Altairnano Ultimatum
by "Jessie Lubke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: dc/dc
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Ni-Cad AA batteries reading 0 volts
by "Tim Gamber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: flybo EV
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Altairnano Ultimatum
by Frank John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I've been thinking about this too, it's the same scenario as using ultracaps to
provide surge current then recharging at a lower rate. How do you
preferentially draw one system or the other down? A "smart" control could do
the job I suppose but I'd be surprised if anything like that is easily
available.
----- Original Message ----
From: "Paschke, Stephen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 2:46:38 PM
Subject: RE: I have been running experiments with high cap NiMH in parallel
with AGM Lead Acid
I would think that you would want the sub-pack voltages to be close to
the same at any given point.
E.G. the Lead pack would sag to value X volts at y amps. The nicad or
whatever pack would sag to approximately X volts at z amps. With y+z =
total amps being drawn at any given point in time.
This would probably be very difficult.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I can't find what I am looking for in the archives. I see I have a choice
between an "S" post, or a high or low "L". I believe I have the high "L"
now.
I'm not running over 400 amps. Will the "S" post work, or should I have an
"L", and if "L", should it be the high "L"?
I'm looking at the Interstate 8 volt batteries, which match what I have now.
Dave
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A direct link to the ebay item is
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&viewitem=&item=170091508575#
The ebay page states:
Battery: 12V 200Ah*6 lead-acid
Six 200ah 12V batteries? GEM uses either wet or gel Group 27 size
batteries that are typically about 100ah 12V.
The ebay page states:
Charger: 72V 25A
Image on the ebay page:
http://i5.ebayimg.com/05/i/000/92/4e/ca5c_12.JPG
has an external charger sitting in the rear
The ebay page states:
Battery type: lead-acid maintenance battery
Weight of battery: 850 lbs
Battery life: recharging X 500
Six batteries weighing 850lbs means each battery would weigh about
142 lbs.
A web search let me find expensive 200ah 12V group 27 PbSO4
batteries (wet and gel):
http://www.ecovantageenergy.com/catalog/items/item1931.htm
http://www.ecovantageenergy.com/catalog/items/item1933.htm
80 mile range with a 10 hour full recharge?
I think the nEV has more like a 40 mile range at a constant 25 mph
if you drained the pack beyond the health discharge point (killed
the pack), or a 30 mile range at a constant (non-stop) 25 mph that
discharges the pack to point that ages the pack less.
A web search let me find the Flybo web site
http://www.flybo.cn/xf/product_new.asp?id=323
Product Number: Type: XFD-6000ZK
Specs: Dimension (L*W*H):2608*1515*1526mm
Ground clearance: 110mm
Wheelbase: 1800mm
Max speed: 55 km/h (can be restricted below 40 km/h for EEC
certificate)
Wheel type (front/rear): 155-80R12 77T / 155-80R12 77T
Brake distance:¡Ü6m
Net weight: 940kg (we are trying to slow down the weight to fit the
request of EEC now)
Seating capacity: 2 persons
Turning radius: ¡Ü4.6m
Grade ability: 13¡ã
Power: 48V DC 3KW
Electric system: 12V DC
Battery: 12V 200Ah*6 lead-acid
Charger: 72V 25A
Controller: 72V
Charging time: ¡Ü10h
Distance per charge: ¡Ý130km
Speed control: pedal control/automatic
Drive type: rear wheel drive
Steering system: rack-and-pinion steering gear
Parking brake: hand/rear-wheel brake
Battery type: lead-acid maintenance battery
Weight of battery: 384kg
Battery life: recharging for 500 times
Container capacity: 5 units per 40¡¯container
-
IMHO: Looks like another Chinese DC SMART Car rip-off on ebay with
false specifications with no U.S.A source for service, parts, etc.
A nice pre-owned conversion EV costs less, goes highway speeds, and
goes farther. A used GEM nEV costs less, and has support.
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
____________________________________________________________________________________
8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time
with the Yahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.
http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#news
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A direct link to the ebay item is
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&viewitem=&item=170091508575#
The ebay page states:
Battery: 12V 200Ah*6 lead-acid
Six 200ah 12V batteries? GEM uses either wet or gel Group 27 size
batteries that are typically about 100ah 12V.
The ebay page states:
Charger: 72V 25A
Image on the ebay page:
http://i5.ebayimg.com/05/i/000/92/4e/ca5c_12.JPG
has an external charger sitting in the rear
The ebay page states:
Battery type: lead-acid maintenance battery
Weight of battery: 850 lbs
Battery life: recharging X 500
Six batteries weighing 850lbs means each battery would weigh about
142 lbs.
A web search let me find expensive 200ah 12V group 27 PbSO4
batteries (wet and gel):
http://www.ecovantageenergy.com/catalog/items/item1931.htm
http://www.ecovantageenergy.com/catalog/items/item1933.htm
80 mile range with a 10 hour full recharge?
I think the nEV has more like a 40 mile range at a constant 25 mph
if you drained the pack beyond the health discharge point (killed
the pack), or a 30 mile range at a constant (non-stop) 25 mph that
discharges the pack to point that ages the pack less.
A web search let me find the Flybo web site
http://www.flybo.cn/xf/product_new.asp?id=323
Product Number: Type: XFD-6000ZK
Specs: Dimension (L*W*H):2608*1515*1526mm
Ground clearance: 110mm
Wheelbase: 1800mm
Max speed: 55 km/h (can be restricted below 40 km/h for EEC
certificate)
Wheel type (front/rear): 155-80R12 77T / 155-80R12 77T
Brake distance:¡Ü6m
Net weight: 940kg (we are trying to slow down the weight to fit the
request of EEC now)
Seating capacity: 2 persons
Turning radius: ¡Ü4.6m
Grade ability: 13¡ã
Power: 48V DC 3KW
Electric system: 12V DC
Battery: 12V 200Ah*6 lead-acid
Charger: 72V 25A
Controller: 72V
Charging time: ¡Ü10h
Distance per charge: ¡Ý130km
Speed control: pedal control/automatic
Drive type: rear wheel drive
Steering system: rack-and-pinion steering gear
Parking brake: hand/rear-wheel brake
Battery type: lead-acid maintenance battery
Weight of battery: 384kg
Battery life: recharging for 500 times
Container capacity: 5 units per 40¡¯container
-
IMHO: Looks like another Chinese DC SMART Car rip-off on ebay with
false specifications with no U.S.A source for service, parts, etc.
A nice pre-owned conversion EV costs less, goes highway speeds, and
goes farther. A used GEM nEV costs less, and has support.
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
____________________________________________________________________________________
No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go
with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/mail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
One way I've considered is to use two contactors, sort of like a passing gear.
Hit a button and the main contactor disconnects the primary energy source and
the other one engages. If you used ultracaps for acceleration you could slowly
recharge them from a small DC-DC converter which would limit Peukert a bit.
Not sure if it's worthwhile and kind of a cludgy work-around but it'd be fun to
try it out.
----- Original Message ----
From: dale henderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 1:47:32 PM
Subject: Power boost concepts
The follow is an attempt to clearly some concepts floating around in my head
and if they work it might help the EV community. Hence those many many of you,
who have more knowledge of these things than I, please [nicely] correct my
thoughts when they wander.
Can I hook up a separate power source directly to the motor? If I already
have a battery pack going to a controller and then the controller going to the
motor can I have separate battery pack/controller hooked up to the motor as
well? I assume the answer is yes if the voltage is the same and the total amps
are in an acceptable level for the motor. One concern is energy back flow. If
both controllers are producing power to the motor at the same time could they
send some or all of those amps into the other controller instead? If so can
that be easily prevented? Furthermore, what about engine breaking and regen?
Can the motor [when breaking] allow one controller [provided it is a regen
controller] to provide energy back to the batteries while the other controller
does nothing?
Why consider this? The secondary controller can be used when the vehicle
needs a little more power to accelerate from a stop light or merge in traffic,
etc… which allows the primary batteries to avoid some amp draw spikes which
will increase run time and battery life. Further, the secondary can be
composed of different technologies than the primary pack. There has been some
interest on this list about finding ways to splice in other battery
technologies [NiCad, lithium, etc..] and I would like to use ultracapacitors
charged by solar. Since a secondary power source could be charged when not in
use.
If this basic idea can be done, my follow up questions will surround the best
way to implement the concept primary how to compute the power [amps per time]
from the capacitors.
Albuquerque, NM
http://geocities.com/hendersonmotorcycles/blog.html
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1000
http://geocities.com/solarcookingman
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tom Ward wrote:
It may be possible to save some fabrication time and possbily money by
replacing the relay board and part of the control board with something
like this:-
http://cubloc.com/product/03_02.php
or this
http://cubloc.com/product/04_01cb280iobd.php
Very interesting. You could probably build something quite similar to my
Balancer with their products. However, I don't see anything oriented for
high DC voltages; you may still have to "roll your own".
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Below is pasted plain text of my last communication to Altairnano, which
was in response to a phone call from their last rep that I was "hot
potatoed" to. In that conversation Bob Goebel stated he was assigned
to defend my "attack" on his boss, Al Gotcher, and used the excuse that
their was no paperwork, for which I had vouched. He also said they had
independent test results, but has failed to date to send me those
sources or results.
So, the facts are:
1. Roy Graham and Veselin Manev of Altairnano made a verbal agreement to
send me a test pack at the October 2006 Solar conference in San Jose,
CA. Roy stated that they could make a pack available for a road test
in January of 2007. They requested I send test pack requirements.
Altairnano investor/Physicist Richard Morse was present as witness.
2. I forwarded the requested technical requirements, and sample test
data using an old set of hawkers as "placeholders" (for emulating the
conditions the batteries would be subjected to), to Veselin Manev, and
didn't hear back.
3. Roy Graham left the company to become an "Alternative Energy
Consultant".
4. I followed through, and Al Gotcher, the new CEO, called me in late
January 2007. He offered that they might be able to provide a 90
Amp-hr 12V cell to test, and I replied that that was inadequate for the
proposed road test per the requirements I had sent them (absolute
minimum 24V, but if they wanted valuable results, 48V). He said he
would talk to his "guys" and see what he could do.
5. I sent the ultimatum (which Bob Goebel called an "attack directed at
my boss"), posted earlier on this list, and enter Bob Goebel to bring
you up to date.
So, while this may not be legal proof that they are a fraud, feel free
to spread the facts.
The purpose of this test was to provide positive press for a legitimate
energy storage developer. Using my 20 mi/Kw-hr scoot, a GPS, and
battery/controller data acquisition, I can prove a given set of
batteries endured certain real road conditions (Pack Amps, Pack Volts,
Motor Amps, Diode Temperature, etc,) while I travelled a given distance
at a given speed and acceleration profile. Unlike racing, this is a
real world, practical application test. I would expect a company with
real technology would invite such a test, and follow through on it,
especially if I am willing to maintain confidentiality of results until
their approval and release of it, thereby eliminating any question of
the credibility of the results.
-Sam
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Agreements and Data
From: Sam Maynard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, March 09, 2007 4:28 pm
To: Bob Goebel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Dear Bob: Thanks for your follow-through regarding independent
testing of the Altairnano batteries. If you have links to true,
independent, objective test results of your Nano-Titanate cells, please
reply with links to that data and I will forward that information to
concerned entities (to remain confidential) that have been anticipating
test results from myself. As it is apparent that you have only
partial information regarding the history of the testing agreement
conversation between Altairnano and myself, I will briefly recap for
you. First, I have represented myself to Altairnano as an individual
with a background in R&D and test Engineering. "Electrikeel" is a
domain name I have reserved for the work I perform in the Marine
Electrical and Navigation Electronics industry, and currently use for
email communication. At the Solar 2006 conference in San Jose (October
2006), Roy Graham, Veselin Manev, and Altairnano Investor/Physicist
Richard Morse were present when I presented a Newspaper article to them
publicizing a round-trip Port Townsend to Seattle, WA trip on a custom
electric vehicle I had designed and built. That is when a verbal
agreement was made to perform road testing on a prototype Altairnano
pack to be conducted in January of 2007. The test purpose was to
subject the batteries to real road travel operating conditions and
measure their performance, while using GPS data to prove the vehicle
travelled from point "A" to Point "B". Since that conference I have
vouched for the opportunity to sign necessary paperwork and perform the
testing. I have also provided battery pack test parameters and sample
test data, but Altairnano's response has been at best fragmented to
date, which is why we have no paperwork. Although I will continue to
avail myself if Altairnano is serious about a publicized "road test", I
am not going to continue to push for it, as there is nothing in it for
me other than a first-hand account of the performance of your
batteries. From what I can gather, the Li-Phosphate technology has
superior energy density performance and competitve performance
characteristics in all other important areas pertinent to Electric
Vehicle applications, and I can get my hands on those cells in 2
business days. I remain in the support of the development of legitimate
technologies that make a contribution to environmentally responsible
energy use, and wish Altairnano the best of luck in making that
contribution.
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Altairnano Ultimatum
From: "Jessie Lubke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, March 16, 2007 12:05 pm
To: [email protected]
I assume you haven't received the test pack?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I can only speak for the US side of these issues, but here it goes.
With real HID's, here at least, I know the only way to completely legally
retrofit a non-factory car with them is only possible if the vehicle originally
had the option and you obtain all the components to retrofit them in to a
vehicle. The HID burners put out a huge amount of lumens (I think it's 3200 per
35watt hid!) and technically any halogen housing won't have the correct optics
to put the light down on the road properly.
That said, it's close enough so long as the retrofit burners have the correct
base which puts the light source at the same spot the filament of the halogen
bulb is. I had them in my Honda Insight, and it was well worth the expense. I
have friends to have cars with factory HID's and they got just as many "hey I
think your brights are on so I'm flashing my brights at you" blips from other
drivers as I did with my retrofitted ones so I can't imagine they were more
annoying than the factory hid's. With the Insight the one H4 bulb did both high
and low beams so I gave up the high beam when I did the retrofit, but they were
not needed. I did a lot of night time driving on the Interstate without any
street lights and they were great for it.
I believe on the other side of the pond they require head lamp washers for
HID's as well so this is something else to consider. The police around here
aren't bad, I never had any problems with them, but your law enforcement may
differ so if you do a drop in retrofit don't throw your halogen bulbs away.
As for the led lights, technically not legal either, but you can probably get
away with them. I've heard good things about these guys:
http://www.superbrightleds.com/
Their drop in replacement bulbs have led's which point straight out and also
ones which point sideways to put light in the housing. I tried some el-cheapo
led bulbs before a long time ago and they only pointed the straight out so no
light filled the housings and after looking at them promptly returned them
because I knew it wasn't going to be safe.
OEM led solutions are usually an array of led's inside the housing pointing
out, which works well. If you really want to get crazy you can find someone who
bakes head and tail lights apart, make your own custom bread board led arrays
and put the housings back together.
Rick
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi,
I was wondering if any EV'ers out there have had any experiences with
converting their halogen headlamps to Xenon and replacing incandescent
tail/stop light bulbs with LED ones?
I appreciate the cost is significant - £100 for a bi-Xenon (ie includes
main
and dipped beam facility) kit instead of a few pounds for a halogen
bulb and
£4 or so for an LED 'bulb' as opposed to about 50p for an incandescent
one.
However, the Xenon lamps only use about half the power that a halogen
one
uses (35W Vs 65W), the light is much easier to see in, they are
considerably
more powerful and last about 10 times as long (apparently). Much the
same
can be said for the LED tail lights.
Any thoughts?
MW
---------------------------------
We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
(and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Alan Brinkman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> A vehicle where you change out the bulbs for LED bulbs needs the flasher
> looked at. Some of the
> flashers need a load to work properly.
I'm working on making my own replacements and this is one issue I haven't
solved. If anyone knows
of a low load relay for signal lights, could you post the info?
> Clear LED lights are very expensive currently. I wanted to add some for
> lighting for the
> trailer to make the battery last longer when camping. I was quoted over $100
> for a large round
> back up style LED lamp like the diesel trucks use. I will use fluorescent
> for the trailer
> interior.
I've been buying my LEDs off of eBay. Commonly you'll find auctions for 20 to
50 for about $15 to
$20, including shipping. They all seem to come out of Hong Kong, and they do
come by slow boat.
There are a lot of colors and brightnesses available. I've stayed away from the
Luxeon for now,
too expensive. I'm waiting for some 10mm 60k mcd LEDs that I'm going to use for
amber running
lights. I also have some 135k mcd white LEDs on order. I need to experiment
with how many I need
to use to equal the original bulb. I'm also going to experiment with using
white light versus
colored LEDs. Red for stop lights, amber for running/turn signal.
As was mentioned in an earlier post, I probably won't save a lot of energy, but
I'm having fun.
Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You want want to check out Cree XR-E lights or Seoul P4 lights, very bright,
twice as bright as Luxeon but same current draw:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=147393
- Tony
----- Original Message ----
From: Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 1:43:53 PM
Subject: RE: Xenon Headlamp and LED Tail Lamp Conversions (long, sorry)
--- Alan Brinkman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> A vehicle where you change out the bulbs for LED bulbs needs the flasher
> looked at. Some of the
> flashers need a load to work properly.
I'm working on making my own replacements and this is one issue I haven't
solved. If anyone knows
of a low load relay for signal lights, could you post the info?
> Clear LED lights are very expensive currently. I wanted to add some for
> lighting for the
> trailer to make the battery last longer when camping. I was quoted over $100
> for a large round
> back up style LED lamp like the diesel trucks use. I will use fluorescent
> for the trailer
> interior.
I've been buying my LEDs off of eBay. Commonly you'll find auctions for 20 to
50 for about $15 to
$20, including shipping. They all seem to come out of Hong Kong, and they do
come by slow boat.
There are a lot of colors and brightnesses available. I've stayed away from the
Luxeon for now,
too expensive. I'm waiting for some 10mm 60k mcd LEDs that I'm going to use for
amber running
lights. I also have some 135k mcd white LEDs on order. I need to experiment
with how many I need
to use to equal the original bulb. I'm also going to experiment with using
white light versus
colored LEDs. Red for stop lights, amber for running/turn signal.
As was mentioned in an earlier post, I probably won't save a lot of energy, but
I'm having fun.
Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't think it's powered. If you look close you can see a couple of guys
walking inside pushing really hard.
Dan
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Damn, how do you see out the windshield? I don't suppose drag racing is in
this beastie's future. I wonder how many Wh/Mi this thing gets...the
Animaris Rhinoceros that is :-O
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Jim Husted
> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 5:33 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Bob Schneveis' Walking Electric Chariot
>
>
> Hey Rod
>
> Just like I said the first time I saw it, I want one!
> I could have fun with that sucker on Halloween 8^) It popped this
> video up for me after that one which would even be better for scaring
> the kiddies, check this one, it could be an EV. How'd like to crunch
> through traffic on this, LMAO
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCsltP8TnOU&NR
>
> Anyway thanks for the link, just shows ya how many ways there is to
> skin that 'ol EV cat 8^)
>
> Cya
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How about if your heatsink was an extrusion with the cross section of
a letter "P"? Then you could bolt through easily without worrying
about exotic leakage solutions.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you make your own cooling block (and drill the holes that go through)
then you can first determine where you want your screws,
then do the drilling.
Alternative, make the bottom or the lid thick enough to take the entire
thread without bottoming.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Patrick Donnelly
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 2:06 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Transistor springs / clamps
How about if your heatsink was an extrusion with the cross section of a
letter "P"? Then you could bolt through easily without worrying about exotic
leakage solutions.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Wow, Sam, this is a big bummer. I was really trying to keep the faith in
Altair despite their suspicious behavior. Thanks for the footwork you've
done - I'd certainly rather know the truth than sustain false hope.
What do you think they've been using in those Phoenix cars? Phoenix
representatives claim that their vehicles run on Altairnano's fancy
batteries.
jessielectric
On 3/16/07, Sam Maynard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Below is pasted plain text of my last communication to Altairnano, which
was in response to a phone call from their last rep that I was "hot
potatoed" to. In that conversation Bob Goebel stated he was assigned
to defend my "attack" on his boss, Al Gotcher, and used the excuse that
their was no paperwork, for which I had vouched. He also said they had
independent test results, but has failed to date to send me those
sources or results.
So, the facts are:
1. Roy Graham and Veselin Manev of Altairnano made a verbal agreement to
send me a test pack at the October 2006 Solar conference in San Jose,
CA. Roy stated that they could make a pack available for a road test
in January of 2007. They requested I send test pack requirements.
Altairnano investor/Physicist Richard Morse was present as witness.
2. I forwarded the requested technical requirements, and sample test
data using an old set of hawkers as "placeholders" (for emulating the
conditions the batteries would be subjected to), to Veselin Manev, and
didn't hear back.
3. Roy Graham left the company to become an "Alternative Energy
Consultant".
4. I followed through, and Al Gotcher, the new CEO, called me in late
January 2007. He offered that they might be able to provide a 90
Amp-hr 12V cell to test, and I replied that that was inadequate for the
proposed road test per the requirements I had sent them (absolute
minimum 24V, but if they wanted valuable results, 48V). He said he
would talk to his "guys" and see what he could do.
5. I sent the ultimatum (which Bob Goebel called an "attack directed at
my boss"), posted earlier on this list, and enter Bob Goebel to bring
you up to date.
So, while this may not be legal proof that they are a fraud, feel free
to spread the facts.
The purpose of this test was to provide positive press for a legitimate
energy storage developer. Using my 20 mi/Kw-hr scoot, a GPS, and
battery/controller data acquisition, I can prove a given set of
batteries endured certain real road conditions (Pack Amps, Pack Volts,
Motor Amps, Diode Temperature, etc,) while I travelled a given distance
at a given speed and acceleration profile. Unlike racing, this is a
real world, practical application test. I would expect a company with
real technology would invite such a test, and follow through on it,
especially if I am willing to maintain confidentiality of results until
their approval and release of it, thereby eliminating any question of
the credibility of the results.
-Sam
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Agreements and Data
From: Sam Maynard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, March 09, 2007 4:28 pm
To: Bob Goebel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Dear Bob: Thanks for your follow-through regarding independent
testing of the Altairnano batteries. If you have links to true,
independent, objective test results of your Nano-Titanate cells, please
reply with links to that data and I will forward that information to
concerned entities (to remain confidential) that have been anticipating
test results from myself. As it is apparent that you have only
partial information regarding the history of the testing agreement
conversation between Altairnano and myself, I will briefly recap for
you. First, I have represented myself to Altairnano as an individual
with a background in R&D and test Engineering. "Electrikeel" is a
domain name I have reserved for the work I perform in the Marine
Electrical and Navigation Electronics industry, and currently use for
email communication. At the Solar 2006 conference in San Jose (October
2006), Roy Graham, Veselin Manev, and Altairnano Investor/Physicist
Richard Morse were present when I presented a Newspaper article to them
publicizing a round-trip Port Townsend to Seattle, WA trip on a custom
electric vehicle I had designed and built. That is when a verbal
agreement was made to perform road testing on a prototype Altairnano
pack to be conducted in January of 2007. The test purpose was to
subject the batteries to real road travel operating conditions and
measure their performance, while using GPS data to prove the vehicle
travelled from point "A" to Point "B". Since that conference I have
vouched for the opportunity to sign necessary paperwork and perform the
testing. I have also provided battery pack test parameters and sample
test data, but Altairnano's response has been at best fragmented to
date, which is why we have no paperwork. Although I will continue to
avail myself if Altairnano is serious about a publicized "road test", I
am not going to continue to push for it, as there is nothing in it for
me other than a first-hand account of the performance of your
batteries. From what I can gather, the Li-Phosphate technology has
superior energy density performance and competitve performance
characteristics in all other important areas pertinent to Electric
Vehicle applications, and I can get my hands on those cells in 2
business days. I remain in the support of the development of legitimate
technologies that make a contribution to environmentally responsible
energy use, and wish Altairnano the best of luck in making that
contribution.
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Altairnano Ultimatum
From: "Jessie Lubke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, March 16, 2007 12:05 pm
To: [email protected]
I assume you haven't received the test pack?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Use a Curtis controller and an inductor?
Why do you start with 48V in the first place if you need 36V?
Just build a 36V pack may be a better option....
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of dale henderson
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 10:17 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: dc/dc
does any one know where to get a dc/dc converter that can handle around 150
amp cont and 500 amp peak from a 48 volt source converting to 36 volt?
Albuquerque, NM
http://geocities.com/hendersonmotorcycles/blog.html
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1000
http://geocities.com/solarcookingman
---------------------------------
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Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just found a few Ni-cad AA batteries tucked away in a drawer today and
decided to test them. They all read 0 volts, are these batteries toast? I
haven't tried charging them yet and I don't thinlk they are that old. Can
they be revived? If so why does this happen?
_________________________________________________________________
Win a trip for four to a concert anywhere in the world!
http://www.mobilelivetour.ca/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Agree that this is yet another DaimlerChrysler Smart - copy that will
disappear within weeks from starting to market their product in the US.
The specs seem pretty accurate though.
200Ah 72V gives 14.4 kWh which is very respectable.
This small car at low speeds must be able to do better than 200Wh/mi,
possibly 150Wh/mi at even lower speeds, so at 200Wh/mi its battery ("to
death" - that's how marketing works) can supply 14.4/0.2 = 72 miles.
(Probably closer to 50 miles at speed, due to Peukert and you don't want to
go over 35 miles regularly to keep your batteries healthy. At low speed it
would not surprise me to see this sucker go over 120 miles distance before
the batteries die.
UPG has a 200Ah variant, almost twice the size of my 110Ah AGM batteries.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of bruce parmenter
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 12:53 PM
To: evlist
Subject: Re: flybo EV
A direct link to the ebay item is
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&viewitem=&item=1700
91508575#
The ebay page states:
Battery: 12V 200Ah*6 lead-acid
Six 200ah 12V batteries? GEM uses either wet or gel Group 27 size batteries
that are typically about 100ah 12V.
The ebay page states:
Charger: 72V 25A
Image on the ebay page:
http://i5.ebayimg.com/05/i/000/92/4e/ca5c_12.JPG
has an external charger sitting in the rear
The ebay page states:
Battery type: lead-acid maintenance battery Weight of battery: 850 lbs
Battery life: recharging X 500
Six batteries weighing 850lbs means each battery would weigh about
142 lbs.
A web search let me find expensive 200ah 12V group 27 PbSO4 batteries (wet
and gel):
http://www.ecovantageenergy.com/catalog/items/item1931.htm
http://www.ecovantageenergy.com/catalog/items/item1933.htm
80 mile range with a 10 hour full recharge?
I think the nEV has more like a 40 mile range at a constant 25 mph if you
drained the pack beyond the health discharge point (killed the pack), or a
30 mile range at a constant (non-stop) 25 mph that discharges the pack to
point that ages the pack less.
A web search let me find the Flybo web site
http://www.flybo.cn/xf/product_new.asp?id=323
Product Number: Type: XFD-6000ZK
Specs: Dimension (L*W*H):2608*1515*1526mm
Ground clearance: 110mm
Wheelbase: 1800mm
Max speed: 55 km/h (can be restricted below 40 km/h for EEC
certificate)
Wheel type (front/rear): 155-80R12 77T / 155-80R12 77T Brake distance:¡Ü6m
Net weight: 940kg (we are trying to slow down the weight to fit the request
of EEC now) Seating capacity: 2 persons Turning radius: ¡Ü4.6m Grade
ability: 13¡ã
Power: 48V DC 3KW
Electric system: 12V DC
Battery: 12V 200Ah*6 lead-acid
Charger: 72V 25A
Controller: 72V
Charging time: ¡Ü10h
Distance per charge: ¡Ý130km
Speed control: pedal control/automatic
Drive type: rear wheel drive
Steering system: rack-and-pinion steering gear Parking brake:
hand/rear-wheel brake Battery type: lead-acid maintenance battery Weight of
battery: 384kg Battery life: recharging for 500 times Container capacity: 5
units per 40¡¯container
-
IMHO: Looks like another Chinese DC SMART Car rip-off on ebay with
false specifications with no U.S.A source for service, parts, etc.
A nice pre-owned conversion EV costs less, goes highway speeds, and
goes farther. A used GEM nEV costs less, and has support.
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
____________________________________________________________________________
________
8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time
with the Yahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.
http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#news
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Please don't take this the wrong way, but they're probably busy trying to build
a new business with developing technology while coordinating everything that
needs to be done in order to fulfill existing contracts while trying to provide
a return for their shareholders. I would guess that helping out EV hobbyists
isn't their first priority, regardless of any agreements or understandings that
may have been made.
----- Original Message ----
From: Jessie Lubke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 5:35:57 PM
Subject: Re: Altairnano Ultimatum
Wow, Sam, this is a big bummer. I was really trying to keep the faith in
Altair despite their suspicious behavior. Thanks for the footwork you've
done - I'd certainly rather know the truth than sustain false hope.
What do you think they've been using in those Phoenix cars? Phoenix
representatives claim that their vehicles run on Altairnano's fancy
batteries.
jessielectric
On 3/16/07, Sam Maynard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Below is pasted plain text of my last communication to Altairnano, which
> was in response to a phone call from their last rep that I was "hot
> potatoed" to. In that conversation Bob Goebel stated he was assigned
> to defend my "attack" on his boss, Al Gotcher, and used the excuse that
> their was no paperwork, for which I had vouched. He also said they had
> independent test results, but has failed to date to send me those
> sources or results.
>
> So, the facts are:
>
> 1. Roy Graham and Veselin Manev of Altairnano made a verbal agreement to
> send me a test pack at the October 2006 Solar conference in San Jose,
> CA. Roy stated that they could make a pack available for a road test
> in January of 2007. They requested I send test pack requirements.
> Altairnano investor/Physicist Richard Morse was present as witness.
>
> 2. I forwarded the requested technical requirements, and sample test
> data using an old set of hawkers as "placeholders" (for emulating the
> conditions the batteries would be subjected to), to Veselin Manev, and
> didn't hear back.
>
> 3. Roy Graham left the company to become an "Alternative Energy
> Consultant".
>
> 4. I followed through, and Al Gotcher, the new CEO, called me in late
> January 2007. He offered that they might be able to provide a 90
> Amp-hr 12V cell to test, and I replied that that was inadequate for the
> proposed road test per the requirements I had sent them (absolute
> minimum 24V, but if they wanted valuable results, 48V). He said he
> would talk to his "guys" and see what he could do.
>
> 5. I sent the ultimatum (which Bob Goebel called an "attack directed at
> my boss"), posted earlier on this list, and enter Bob Goebel to bring
> you up to date.
>
> So, while this may not be legal proof that they are a fraud, feel free
> to spread the facts.
>
> The purpose of this test was to provide positive press for a legitimate
> energy storage developer. Using my 20 mi/Kw-hr scoot, a GPS, and
> battery/controller data acquisition, I can prove a given set of
> batteries endured certain real road conditions (Pack Amps, Pack Volts,
> Motor Amps, Diode Temperature, etc,) while I travelled a given distance
> at a given speed and acceleration profile. Unlike racing, this is a
> real world, practical application test. I would expect a company with
> real technology would invite such a test, and follow through on it,
> especially if I am willing to maintain confidentiality of results until
> their approval and release of it, thereby eliminating any question of
> the credibility of the results.
>
> -Sam
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Agreements and Data
> From: Sam Maynard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Fri, March 09, 2007 4:28 pm
> To: Bob Goebel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> Dear Bob: Thanks for your follow-through regarding independent
> testing of the Altairnano batteries. If you have links to true,
> independent, objective test results of your Nano-Titanate cells, please
> reply with links to that data and I will forward that information to
> concerned entities (to remain confidential) that have been anticipating
> test results from myself. As it is apparent that you have only
> partial information regarding the history of the testing agreement
> conversation between Altairnano and myself, I will briefly recap for
> you. First, I have represented myself to Altairnano as an individual
> with a background in R&D and test Engineering. "Electrikeel" is a
> domain name I have reserved for the work I perform in the Marine
> Electrical and Navigation Electronics industry, and currently use for
> email communication. At the Solar 2006 conference in San Jose (October
> 2006), Roy Graham, Veselin Manev, and Altairnano Investor/Physicist
> Richard Morse were present when I presented a Newspaper article to them
> publicizing a round-trip Port Townsend to Seattle, WA trip on a custom
> electric vehicle I had designed and built. That is when a verbal
> agreement was made to perform road testing on a prototype Altairnano
> pack to be conducted in January of 2007. The test purpose was to
> subject the batteries to real road travel operating conditions and
> measure their performance, while using GPS data to prove the vehicle
> travelled from point "A" to Point "B". Since that conference I have
> vouched for the opportunity to sign necessary paperwork and perform the
> testing. I have also provided battery pack test parameters and sample
> test data, but Altairnano's response has been at best fragmented to
> date, which is why we have no paperwork. Although I will continue to
> avail myself if Altairnano is serious about a publicized "road test", I
> am not going to continue to push for it, as there is nothing in it for
> me other than a first-hand account of the performance of your
> batteries. From what I can gather, the Li-Phosphate technology has
> superior energy density performance and competitve performance
> characteristics in all other important areas pertinent to Electric
> Vehicle applications, and I can get my hands on those cells in 2
> business days. I remain in the support of the development of legitimate
> technologies that make a contribution to environmentally responsible
> energy use, and wish Altairnano the best of luck in making that
> contribution.
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: Altairnano Ultimatum
> From: "Jessie Lubke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Fri, March 16, 2007 12:05 pm
> To: [email protected]
>
> I assume you haven't received the test pack?
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
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in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.
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--- End Message ---
