EV Digest 6589
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Horrifying trailer towing experience
by "David Sharpe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Curtis stuff
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) EVLN(Fort McMurrays council opted against hybrid bus)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Quick rundown on FAQ questions
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Horrifying trailer towing experience
by Finn John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) EVLN(London gets third EV recharging point)-long
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) EVLN(It's a Jeep spliced with a pickup spliced with a golf cart)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) EVLN(Pres Visits Ford's Kansas City hybrid Plant)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: We Blow Things Up, So You Don't Have To...2007
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Mike's Pinto Project
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: ARGGG, destroying expensive lifepo4 cells. :( Need a "button"
fuse.
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Better Data Logging Options?
by Edward Kellogg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Better Data Logging Options?
by Edward Kellogg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: ***DHSPAM*** Re: We Blow Things Up, So You Don't Have To...2007
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Quick rundown on FAQ questions
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: Quick rundown on FAQ questions
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Mike's Pinto Project
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
This morning I had my EV (converted Diahatsu) on a tandem (2 axles) trailer
being towed by my Peugeot 406 Diesel. I was on my way to a country fair whose
them was Human powered vehicles. Anyway the trailer got into uncontrollable
oscillations at speeds past 40 mph and jacknifed. Luckily no one was hurt but
the Peugeot was not so lucky and had a bent rear right axle and damaged panels.
The EV stayed on the trailer and was not damaged. In fact I drove it home from
the accident to get another veh to tow the trailer home. The Peug went off on a
tilt bed for repairs. I estimate that the trailer & EV weighed 2 tonnes. The
towing vehicle about 1.5 tonnes. In retrospect I shouldnt have done this trip.
I think my weight balances were not right. Probably should have been towing
with a 2 ton or more vehicle. I bring this to your attention so others can
learn by my mistake. David
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 10:06 PM 23/03/07 -0700, Mike Golub wrote:
Logi offered to put the 1204 in the recycle aluminum
pile, that's worth 50 cents/lb.
"Worth" being a debatable term...
I'm currently own two logi upgraded 1209b's
One is in the truck 72-120v/ 450amp model.
And another is setting on the shelf 120-144v/750amp.
I plan on upgrading soon. So I could crack the case
and see what's in there. I would lose my warranty but
I think they are going out of the rebuild business.
They are currently not rebuilding the 1209/1221s and
are just going to put new innards when they're
mass-produced new controllers show up.
I canunderstand them not rebuilding controllers beyond a certain age, as
the value of the replacement parts makes it not profitable. For those of us
hobbyists it still makes sense. I for one would be interested to know what
Logisystems used when they put other than standard MOSFets in there, and if
they upgraded the drivers as well.
Might be easier to start getting cores. Have you ever
just called/contacted the local golf courses, and see
what they got laying around?
Most golfers here don't ride, and many that do are using mobility scooters
rather than golf carts, so the number of repairs being done won't be many.
It may be worth the asking, though.
Do you have to worry about heating for your EV?
Australian design rules require "effective demisting" so I've replaced the
heater core with ceramic elements. Winter here is frosts rather than snow
on the ground, snow is in the high country for 3 to 6 weeks each winter.
Are the logic boards...simple just one trace on each
side?
"simple" is tracks only one side, as they are really easy to follow. Curtis
use double-sided so it is not so easy to follow where the tracks go under
the chips - but the chips are so cheap if I need to follow a track and
can't work it out I'll just snip the chip off, clean out the holes, trace
the tracks and bung a new chip in. Complex is multi-layer boards that are a
pain to repair even when you have the drawings.
They got some machine in school that fixes
traces, but I am not sure what it does.
It is probably more for restoring plated-through holes, rather than the tracks.
I'll keep you posted, and thanks for the update.
More updates will follow as I get more into things. I hope to upgrade 1204
and 1205 controllers to 60 or 72V for my own things. If I can find enough
controllers I may even try "slave" connecting a pair for double the amps -
put them in one box and connect over the drive signal so that one control
board is working, the other control board just picks up the drive signal
and drives its power stage. I can see propogation delays being an issue
there. Anyone tried that?
Regards
[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Fort McMurrays council opted against hybrid bus)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
www.fortmcmurraytoday.com/Local News/294782.html
Hybrid buses too costly
By LARISSA LIEPINS Today staff Monday March 19, 2007
Fort McMurrays aging transit system is getting three new
diesel-powered buses, for a total cost of $1.2 million.
In approving the purchase last week, regional council opted
against getting one regular bus and one electric hybrid bus
instead.
In the end, you simply cant justify the hybrid bus when we can
get two (regular) buses for the same price, said Mayor Melissa
Blake, who drives a hybrid vehicle.
Even though the electric hybrid models can increase fuel economy
by 35 per cent and would reduce emissions, they cost $605,500
apiece, versus $396,500 per regular bus.
But Coun. Carolyn Slade said buying the hybrid model would save
money in the long run.
It costs lots more to purchase the hybrid, but there are
long-term efficiencies for the 20 to 30 years we keep it on the
road, Slade argued.
Going with the hybrid bus would require additional training for
drivers, plus specialized equipment to diagnose and repair the
units. All this would cost the municipality extra, reads a report
to council.
In 2003, the municipality entered into an agreement with
Manitoba-based New Flyer Industries Ltd. to buy 10 public transit
buses over a 10-year period.
The money for the new buses will come out of a provincial grant
for municipal transit, said infrastructure superintendent Darcy
Elder.
The municipality currently owns 24 buses and leases nine more.
While their average age is 14 years, three are 33 years old.
The age of our fleet has been plaguing us, Blake said.
Maybe more new buses will increase ridership, added Coun. Phil
Meagher.
© 2007 Fort McMurray Today
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
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. EV List Editor & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
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Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast
with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut.
http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey all
I sat down and listed a bunch of groups and sub-groups
which I'll write on. Just thought I'd run this by you
for input. I feel I'll be able to cover a lot of
topics and questions meeting most peoples needs. Let
me know if there's something that could be added. I
got quite a mouthful to write as it is here so I'm
hoping it'll be enough to get started and worthy of
your attention.
As follows:
Motor selection:
Shafts
Brushes
Size (does matter)
Voltages
Motor types
Scrap yard finds (diamonds in the rough)
Using a forklift Motor:
pre-buy basics
Disassembly
Cleaning
Reassembly
Bench testing
Buying new:
My advice
Brush timing:
What is it?
When to advance
How to advance
Bearing replacement tips:
Tools
Procedure
How to remove a fan
Commutator care:
Turning
Undercutting
Problems
Brush seating
Patina care
Motor maintenance:
General care
Duty load
You need help bad issues
Breaking in a motor:
Preflight test
What next
Using more than one motor:
Pros and cons
Motor damages: Racer vs. Daily driver:
How different uses affect the motor
Types of damages
Protecting your motor:
What not to do
Advanced Mods for cavemen:
You want to what?
Motor terminology:
What did I just say?
Okay thats 13 subjects, crap I need 1 more, hehe.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for earth-friendly autos?
Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.
http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This can be a really hairy situation, especially with a towing vehicle that
outweighs its load. Glad you're OK and your voiture is repairable. I've seen a
couple of loads go like this, the vehicle being towing usually ends up being
whipped back and forth like a dog's chew toy.
Anyway, it's caused by too much weight aft of the axle. It's the same dynamic
that causes taildragger airplanes to be prone to ground looping -- the center
of gravity wants to be toward the front of the vehicle rather than the back. To
avoid it, make sure you've got one or two hundred pounds of tongue weight and
you should be OK, even with a lighter-weight tow vehicle. If you can't get the
car far enough forward on the trailer to do that, you just end up making the
whole trip at 30 mph ...
Lots of you guys already know this, I know, but for anybody who doesn't, it's
good to know!
--Finn
----- Original Message ----
From: David Sharpe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 10:14:12 PM
Subject: Horrifying trailer towing experience
This morning I had my EV (converted Diahatsu) on a tandem (2 axles) trailer
being towed by my Peugeot 406 Diesel. I was on my way to a country fair whose
them was Human powered vehicles. Anyway the trailer got into uncontrollable
oscillations at speeds past 40 mph and jacknifed. Luckily no one was hurt but
the Peugeot was not so lucky and had a bent rear right axle and damaged panels.
The EV stayed on the trailer and was not damaged. In fact I drove it home from
the accident to get another veh to tow the trailer home. The Peug went off on a
tilt bed for repairs. I estimate that the trailer & EV weighed 2 tonnes. The
towing vehicle about 1.5 tonnes. In retrospect I shouldnt have done this trip.
I think my weight balances were not right. Probably should have been towing
with a 2 ton or more vehicle. I bring this to your attention so others can
learn by my mistake. David
____________________________________________________________________________________
Finding fabulous fares is fun.
Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel
bargains.
http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(London gets third EV recharging point)-long
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.24dash.com/environment/18206.htm
London gets third electric vehicle recharging point
Back to Environment by Pam Caulfield 21/03/2007
[
http://www.24dash.com/_images/news/18206/m_NewRide.jpg
Tina Pancha and Nick Child at the third NewRide station Relevant
News]
UK's only free on-street charging points for electric vehicles
NewRide is extending its network of recharging points for
electric vehicles, by installing a third public recharging
facility.
A Clear Zones initiative, funded by Transport for London, Camden
Council's NewRide is aimed at encouraging the people who live and
work in the borough to use electric vehicles for their commuting
and leisure journeys.
NewRide is unveiling its third multiple vehicle recharging
facility that is publicly accessible for use by anyone with an
electric vehicle.
The recharging point which goes live today has been installed at
152 Royal College Street, Camden Town, London, utilising the
premises of Electrip who also stock electric bikes and scooters.
This is the third NewRide public electric vehicle recharging
station to be installed by NewRide in London, whilst the UK's
first two NewRide electric charging stations are already live in
Drury Lane and Saffron Hill.
The third station can already charge scooters and bikes but will
also soon be able to recharge cars. NewRide will also be
upgrading its first two stations with electric car recharging
points within the month.
Tina Pancha, Transport Planner for Camden said, "We are aiming to
achieve a network of five NewRide electric recharging stations in
the next few months and we are delighted to have now installed
our third.
"We have also taken on board supporter's requirements for
electric cars which will be incorporated into this latest station
whilst upgrading our first two stations in Drury Lane and Saffron
Hill which currently charge electric scooters and bikes."
Nick Child, Managing Director of Park & Charge said: "NewRide's
recharging facilities are for use by anyone with an electric
vehicle, subject to purchasing a permit and space allowing. By
installing the recharging infrastructure, NewRide is aiming to
remove one of the main barriers to using electric vehicles, that
of recharging them."
"NewRide's electric charging stations allow users of electrically
powered vehicles to store them in a safe and secure location
whilst recharging them. In this way, the daily range of these
vehicles can be at least doubled."
The NewRide electric charging system uses smart technology that
recognises the voltage requirements of any battery-powered
vehicle, ensuring a safe and efficient powering-up process. Most
electric bikes and electric scooters can take a full recharge in
less than seven hours.
By encouraging people to consider alternatives to petrol
transport, Camden's NewRide is seeking to improve the quality of
local life by reducing carbon and other harmful emissions
associated with the internal combustion engine, whilst reducing
the impact of noise and congestion.
Nick Child continued: "The NewRide programme embraces the latest
generation of zero-emission electric cycles, moped scooters and
electric cars. These rechargeable battery-powered machines are
ideal for zipping around town and a wholly practical alternative
to the conventional car."
Tina Pancha added: "In addition to the ease and convenience of
electric vehicles, lower running costs and exemption to
congestion charges, NewRide is seeking to encourage their use to
help reduce emissions, congestion and noise. Research has shown
that most petrol scooters in the city are used for journeys of
eight miles or less. With expensive parking and congestion
charging there really hasn't been a better time for a project
like NewRide."
===
[Map
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=l&hl=en&q=152+College+Street+Camden+Town&layer=&ie=UTF8&near=London+NW1+0TA+UK&z=17&ll=51.543466,-0.13719&spn=0.004951,0.006427&om=1
]
www.newride.org.uk/web/dealer_network
ELECTRIP c/o C & M Cars & Ecobikes
[Tel: 020 7267 4000, Mobile: 079 7109 5661]
152 College Street Camden Town London NW1 0TA
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Website: [ http://electrip.co.uk ]
===
UK EV Charge Points
http://www.est.org.uk/fleet/refuellingmap/
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
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. EV List Editor & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
: MEPIS Linux & WiFi powered :
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Never miss an email again!
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--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(It's a Jeep spliced with a pickup spliced with a golf cart)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.mndaily.com/articles/2007/03/21/71190
It's a car, it's a cart, it's tech support riding to the rescue
By Kevin Behr March 21, 2007
It looks like an unholy mishmash of vehicles: a Jeep spliced with
a pickup truck spliced with a golf cart.
But whatever it looks like, it's buzzing around campus solving
technology problems for professors and teaching assistants.
The Office of Classroom Management has been responding to
emergency technology problems for the past six years, but in 2006
it acquired the "golf cart on steroids," said Larry Gilbertson,
technical services coordinator for the office.
The maroon monstrosity has working headlights, windshield wipers,
seatbelts and a maximum speed of about 25 mph, Gilbertson said.
The "classroom emergency response vehicle" is fully electric,
making it environmentally friendly and cost-effective, he said.
The battery can be fully charged for just 75 cents and lasts for
about 55 miles of driving, Gilbertson said.
A vehicle like this would typically only be able to run on
sidewalks, but a new law passed last year makes it and other
"neighborhood electric vehicles" street legal.
The law gives the vehicle access to every classroom on the
Minneapolis and St. Paul campuses within seven minutes of being
contacted, Gilbertson said.
[Ali Haupt
http://www.mndaily.com/daily/2007/03/21/p1cartroidB.jpg
The classroom emergency response vehicle was acquired
last year by the Office of Classroom Management. The vehicle is
fully electronic and responds to technology emergencies around
the University.]
"On such a sprawling campus, it's a huge advantage," he said. "A
lot of buildings are much more accessible on sidewalks than
roadways."
Rick Peifer, assistant to the director of the biology program,
said his department has been in close contact with the Office of
Classroom Management for years and actually suggested the office
get golf carts to access campus sidewalks.
"That was one of the biggest problems they had: They had to jump
into a truck, wait for traffic, find a place to park and then
come in and see us," he said.
"I've noticed this past term that the response time has been much
better," Peifer said.
Frederick Asher, an art history professor, said he calls the
office fairly frequently for problems with projectors or
microphones.
"I appreciate the response," he said. "It's very helpful."
Every general purpose classroom has a phone with the number for
the office on it, Gilbertson said. Professors and teaching
assistants can call the office for any problem there may be with
the classroom. If it's a technology problem holding up the
teaching process, the vehicle is dispatched to take care of it,
he said.
Gilbertson said he first read about neighborhood electric
vehicles in the newspaper and then saw one on display at the
State Fair. He said he thought they were interesting and could
benefit the University, so he pursued the idea.
After speaking with a company that makes electric vehicles, the
University had one built for its specific needs.
The vehicle ended up costing about $23,000, which came from the
Office of Classroom Management's operating expenses, Gilbertson
said. It was a little more expensive because Gilbertson said he
needed a topper in the back to protect equipment and an
enclosed cab to save drivers from freezing conditions in
Minnesota winters.
[...]
© Copyright 2007 The Minnesota Daily
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
: MEPIS Linux & WiFi powered :
____________________________________________________________________________________
Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Pres Visits Ford's Kansas City hybrid Plant)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.autospectator.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=8651
[
http://www.autospectator.com/uploads/Ford/Other/Pres_Bush_Ford.jpg
]
Ford Corporate - President Bush Visits Ford's Kansas City Plant:
Home of Full-Hybrid SUVs and E85 Trucks 2007/3/21
* President Bush tours Kansas City Assembly Plants hybrid
assembly line to view production of Escape Hybrid and Mariner
Hybrid.
* President Bush thanks Kansas City Assembly Plant employees for
helping to deliver energy security by building hybrids and E85
vehicles.
* KCAP employees hear President Bush explain how American
technology and innovation will lead to energy security.
President Bush (R) toured Ford's Kansas City Assembly plant today
where America's first SUV hybrid electric vehicles [...] are
built. Ford President and CEO Alan Mulally (2nd from
L),US Congressman Sam Graves (Rep. Kansas L) and Derrick Kuzak
Group vice president, Global Product Development, The Americas
explained how Ford is developing an integrated, balanced solution
for energy security and climate change.
KANSAS CITY, Mo., March 20, 2007 Ford Motor Company today
hosted President George W. Bush at the companys Kansas City
Assembly Plant where the President thanked employees for being
part of the solution to the countrys energy issues by building
hybrid [...] vehicles.
The President toured the hybrid assembly line and addressed more
than 300 employees about the role American technology and
innovation will play in delivering energy security to the
country.
Technology changes the way we have lived our lives and technology
is going to change the way we drive our cars, said the
President. You're making a new kind of automobile that is
literally a part of changing America for the better. Alan
Mulally, president and CEO, Ford Motor Company, welcomed
President Bush to the plant and thanked him for coming to see
first-hand how Ford is delivering advanced technology vehicles to
address climate change and energy security.
Ford stands ready to work with the Administration and Congress to
reduce our nations dependence on foreign oil, Mulally said. At
Kansas City Assembly, we are doing some exciting things. In
addition to producing the nations first hybrid electric SUV [...]
[...]
For more information regarding Fords products, visit
www.fordvehicles.com Source: Ford Motor Company
Copyright © 2004 AutoSpectator.com
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
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'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
: MEPIS Linux & WiFi powered :
____________________________________________________________________________________
Get your own web address.
Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rod;
There is a lot of interest on my part, but a severe lack of time to post
much of significance.
In my half hour of reading posts at night, I am lucky to post back on more
than one thread. Many times, I post nothing back because I use the entire
time to read leaving no time to respond.
Many times, I will get a call from Madman wanting an opinion on something
that was posted. He usually takes my input before he starts typing on that
subject. Because I read so much, I am usually up to speed on the racing
threads of interest to him.
I usually don't post directly to Wayland because he is charting new
territory that is beyond my experience. I learn from his posts and have
offered little recent input to him directly. My personal response to most of
his posts is 'Fascinating. Tell me more'.
John;
I have been a fan of you and the White Zombie for years.
I love to read the detailed play by play after the events.
I especially like the post event tear down, autopsy, and re-creation of
events leading up to a failure.
As an engineer, I love the slogan, "we blow things up, so you don't have
to." I have always known that it is far cheaper and more intelligent to
learn what works (and sometimes breaks) for others than to try doing it all
myself.
Keep up the good job you are doing by going fast and telling the stories.
Lots of people design stuff that should go fast. You are the one who
actually builds things that do what you claim. Your stories are the biggest
attraction that has kept me reading the EV list daily over the last eleven
years.
Thanks, John. You make it worth staying subscribed.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 7:59 PM
Subject: Re: We Blow Things Up, So You Don't Have To...2007
> Hi Mike, Thanks for responding. I have noticed over a period of time that
> there does not seem to be a lot of responses to items of this nature. I do
> not really know if people on the List do not really care about pressing
the
> envelope of EV performance or not. I am not sure if it is apathy or
> something else. John is by far the best orator on these adventures and
this
> subject and yet to see so little response seems to me to indicate little
> interest. This actually may be the case now days. Several years back there
> seemed to be quite a bit more interest in pushing the envelope of EV
> development but hey, times change and we are now living in a world of
> apathy. Note: purely my own opinions from my own observations. I am sure
it
> is not everywhere. I just happen to live in the US. It is not my fault
where
> I was born. For people born elsewhere please speak up on your opinions of
EV
> performance.
>
> Roderick Wilde
> "Suck Amps EV Racing"
> www.suckamps.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "MIKE WILLMON" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 2:59 PM
> Subject: Re: We Blow Things Up, So You Don't Have To...2007
>
>
> > Hey John,
> >
> > Any chance the camera crew provided you with any clips to tease us
with??
> > Or are they holding footage for their full length feature film about a
guy
> > in a Plasmaboy suit??
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Date: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 10:41 pm
> > Subject: We Blow Things Up, So You Don't Have To...2007
> > To: [email protected]
> >
> >> Hello to All,
> >>
> >> about the time I was maneuvering the big Isuzu service truck in
> >> place,
> >> Greg and his band of energetic camera toting high school video
> >> students
> >> arrived to help secure the area.
> >>
> >>
> >> It's all caught on 4 cameras, including a car-cam securely
> >> strapped into
> >> the Zombie's passenger seat (check it out at the 'Photos' page).
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.17/730 - Release Date:
3/22/2007
> > 7:44 AM
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to Mike and All,
It's been a bit lonely without lots of other electric street cars to
play with :-) I miss Maniac Mazda.
Mike Willmon wrote:
Pinto is in progress. Have the Z2K in hand, newly released TransWarP9 AND
WarP9 on order ala Ryan Bohm and George Hamstra, Ford
heavywall 9" housing and 31 spline axles getting ready for the chopper, trying to
peg the rear gearing so I can order a Curie 9"
Race Case ready to install and kick some ICE.
Wow, this is soooo exciting to read about! I've seen Mike's work in
person, so I can guarantee this will be a high quality job.
I'm betting this Pinto project will be quick and fast! I can hardly wait
to read about Mike's drag racing outings as he toasts classic muscle
cars. If he can get sponsorship on Alaskan freight up north for White
Zombie and or other EVs from the lower states, he can count on me
attending a midnight sun run! Mike's Pinto project is one that all EVers
should be excited about, because as they say, racing improves the breed.
Way to go, Mike. Please, keep posting about this as often as you can.
See Ya.....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Alternative is to place a high voltage FET in each string and
measure current. Too high and the FET is opened to cut the
string off from a short circuit or overload.
It can recover automatically by itself or you can have an
external control take care of it - your choice.
FETs are bi-directional, so regen would be allowed.
Fuses are cheaper though - you can get away with one DC fuse per string.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tony Hwang
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 10:29 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: ARGGG, destroying expensive lifepo4 cells. :( Need a "button"
fuse.
Hmmmm, good ideas but how would regen work with a diode? Each string would
need to provide maybe 9 amps, and there would be 30 strings. I need a max
discharge rate of about 280 amps.
----- Original Message ----
From: Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 9:45:17 PM
Subject: RE: ARGGG, destroying expensive lifepo4 cells. :( Need a "button"
fuse.
Tony,
What about making series strings and tying the strings together with a fuse
in each (plus a diode?) If you use a second set of diodes for charging, then
you have completely isolated any problems in a shorted cell while you can
still charge and discharge through all strings.
The voltage difference between the charge and discharge points will tell you
if there is a string not playing nice, normally it should only be the
voltage drop of two diodes.
How much current does each string need to deliver?
Tesla Motors' Roadster has about 60 parallel strings if I take the nr of
cells (6000+) and divide that by the voltage that I expect they are running
(300+) so they probably have some 100 cells in series, though their BMS may
break it down in smaller sections.
Each string in the Roadster is probably capable of delivering around 10A.
(6000 x 3.4V x 10A = 200kW)
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tony Hwang
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 3:09 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: ARGGG, destroying expensive lifepo4 cells. :( Need a "button" fuse.
Hi all,
Does anyone know if there exists a "button" fuse, where each contact of the
fuse is opposite of each other? Sort of like a coin lithium cell? The reason
why I'm searching for them is to protect cells in parallel from a failed
cell.
So, I'm trying to see if lithium iron phosphate 18650 cells can be used in
parallel/series in a 4S5P pack.
I bought 21 cells from www.batteryspace.com, and fiddled with them. I
accidentally shorted two of them! They got hot and dumped full power for
about 10 seconds or so. Drats, one was ruined (fails in a shorted state),
the other, seemed ruined (very very low voltage, like .3 volts) but after a
day, it charged up fine. Cool, I thought. So at least I still have 20 "good"
cells. I mark the ruined but revived cell.
I wired up a 4S5P pack using lifepo4 cells from www.batteryspace.com. I put
it through a charge/discharge cycle on my charger, it works fine! Then I
charge it again, and notice it comes up as 9V only. ACK! So it turns out
that the "ruined but revived cell" failed short again, and it took out the
other 4 cells in parallel with it! Now I'm left with 15 cells, and 6 ruined
cells, at almost $7 apiece, this experiment is getting expensive. :(
I'm thinking it might be wise to wire up a fuse with each cell, but the
logistics of wiring that up seems daunting. Is there any fuse that is like a
button cell, that I can just put on the "+" end of each 18650? I've googled
and all I've found were SMT fuses, which are too small. I've thought of
maybe using glass fuses, but the glass would probably crack inside the pack.
- Tony
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Another good one for beginners is the Parallax basic stamp, and it
can be read with labview. It can do a minimal bit of datalogging itself.
Ed Kellogg
e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Chat… eckellogg138 (AIM)
eckellogg3838 (AIM)
Skype eckellogg
ICQ 243051412
Veni, Vidi, volo in domum redire
On Mar 22, 2007, at 6:02 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I would much rather buy everything for an ev all in one piece and
be done with it. But since I don't have the $60,000 or more
required for the cars that are made to my liking, I'm going to have
to hack something together and accept that it won't be as nice in
many ways.
Here are examples of some of the boards I will most likely be
deciding between when I get going. Most likely in combination with
an old ibook as the brains, taking off the original screen and
using a smaller touch screen for the display and input.
http://www.arduino.cc/
$32
http://store.makezine.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=MKCONTRLLR
$150
I'm sure you can make some sort of simple circuit to keep the large
voltages away from these devices, and they are cheap! They plug in
via USB either for programming or for bringing their data in to the
computer and have quite a few inputs and outputs. They can be
stand-alone (no computer) if you figure out a way to use them that
way, like with dials or LEDs as output. These would need to have
software written for them, as well as some sort of relay circuit
for each high-powered line that you want to monitor.
I will most likely be using the combination of Max/MSP/Jitter for
this, but you would only need Max. You can buy Max by itself for
$250. You can create anything you want with data-related
interfaces that you could think of with that program, probably
quite similar capabilities to LabView. http://www.cycling74.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'll say this again — You can buy it through amazon.com
http://www.amazon.com/LabVIEW-8-Student-book-only/dp/0132390256/
ref=pd_bbs_sr_4/105-1363604-7773233?
ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1174368420&sr=8-4
You do not need to be a student — you just can't use it for any
professional or commercial work.
And this comes with a book that explains the basics of Labview
programming, although you won't write a single line of code.
And as for hardware (I know this post began as a question about e-
meters, but), for those without e-meters, you can try this:
http://sine.ni.com/nips/cds/view/p/lang/en/nid/201630
And totally off the topic, but neat anyway:
http://www.ni.com/academic/mindstorms/
Ed Kellogg
e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Chat… eckellogg138 (AIM)
eckellogg3838 (AIM)
Skype eckellogg
ICQ 243051412
Si fractum non sit, noli id reficer.
On Mar 22, 2007, at 3:42 PM, Roger Stockton wrote:
John Fisher wrote:
LabView does have a free student edition:
http://www.ni.com/academic/edu_lic.htm
Err... Almost free. You appear to need to purchase an academic site
licence before you have the option of providing free copies to
students.
An individual student can purchase a student version for $80-100. The
rest of us who don't qualify are looking at $1200 :(
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to Joe and All,
Joe Smalley wrote:
As an engineer, I love the slogan, "we blow things up, so you don't have
to." Keep up the good job you are doing by going fast and telling the stories.
Lots of people design stuff that should go fast. Your stories are the biggest
attraction that has kept me reading the EV list daily over the last eleven
years. Thanks, John. You make it worth staying subscribed.
This was a great way to end my late night Friday, reading the above
before hitting the sack!
I must confess, lately I've asked myself why I bother to take as much
time as I do to create the posts I come up with, only to sometimes not
have a single response on the EVDL. It 'was' making me wonder, like Rod
said, if there's any interest anymore.
The above did wonders for me, thanks Joe! I guess I'll go ahead and
finish my post that's almost all done and 'was' destined to the trash
bin, about the recent Roadster Show, and get it to the EVDL, now that I
know there's still a few out there that still care.
See Ya......John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
G'day Jim, All
At 11:44 PM 23/03/07 -0700, Jim wrote:
Hey all
I sat down and listed a bunch of groups and sub-groups
which I'll write on. Just thought I'd run this by you
for input. I feel I'll be able to cover a lot of
topics and questions meeting most peoples needs. Let
me know if there's something that could be added. I
got quite a mouthful to write as it is here so I'm
hoping it'll be enough to get started and worthy of
your attention.
As follows:
Motor selection:
Shafts
Brushes
== Commutators (numbers of segments and width)
== Adjustable brush gear (slots and holes)
== Fans, vents and cooling
Size (does matter)
Voltages
Motor types
== Connection (number of terminals)
Scrap yard finds (diamonds in the rough)
Using a forklift Motor:
pre-buy basics
== Measurements and other signs that may inicate problems
Disassembly
Cleaning
Reassembly
Bench testing
Buying new:
My advice
Brush timing:
What is it?
When to advance
How to advance
Bearing replacement tips:
Tools
Procedure
How to remove a fan
Commutator care:
Turning
Undercutting
Problems
Brush seating
Patina care
Motor maintenance:
General care
== Brush replacement, re-seating
Duty load
You need help bad issues
Breaking in a motor:
Preflight test
What next
Using more than one motor:
Pro's and con's
Motor damages: Racer vs. Daily driver:
How different uses affect the motor
Types of damages
Protecting your motor:
What not to do
Advanced Mod's for cavemen:
You want to what?
Motor terminology:
What did I just say?
Okay thats 13 subjects, crap I need 1 more, hehe.
Cya
Jim Husted
Enough more, Jim?
Regards
[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
here's one more
14. Where to send (or not send) your motor when you screw it up..... or want
some bling-bling....
;-P
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Jim Husted
> Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 9:44 PM
> To: EVDL
> Subject: Quick rundown on FAQ questions
>
>
> Hey all
>
> I sat down and listed a bunch of groups and sub-groups
> which I'll write on. Just thought I'd run this by you
> for input. I feel I'll be able to cover a lot of
> topics and questions meeting most peoples needs. Let
> me know if there's something that could be added. I
> got quite a mouthful to write as it is here so I'm
> hoping it'll be enough to get started and worthy of
> your attention.
> As follows:
>
> Motor selection:
> Shafts
> Brushes
> Size (does matter)
> Voltages
> Motor types
> Scrap yard finds (diamonds in the rough)
>
> Using a forklift Motor:
> pre-buy basics
> Disassembly
> Cleaning
> Reassembly
> Bench testing
>
> Buying new:
> My advice
>
> Brush timing:
> What is it?
> When to advance
> How to advance
>
> Bearing replacement tips:
> Tools
> Procedure
> How to remove a fan
>
> Commutator care:
> Turning
> Undercutting
> Problems
> Brush seating
> Patina care
>
> Motor maintenance:
> General care
> Duty load
> You need help bad issues
>
> Breaking in a motor:
> Preflight test
> What next
>
> Using more than one motor:
> Pros and cons
>
> Motor damages: Racer vs. Daily driver:
> How different uses affect the motor
> Types of damages
>
> Protecting your motor:
> What not to do
>
> Advanced Mods for cavemen:
> You want to what?
>
> Motor terminology:
> What did I just say?
>
> Okay thats 13 subjects, crap I need 1 more, hehe.
>
> Cya
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Looking for earth-friendly autos?
> Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.
> http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John,
Thanks for the kind words. You really are a nice guy, I don't care what Jim
LMAO Husted says about you. te he. By the way he
told me to tell you he's not talking to you 8^P
You know I haven't yet seen your work in person but I do thank you for the HUGE
amount of history you've thrown up on your site
about WZ and the reports you post here. I know they take you a lot of time to
put together succinctly. Pics and commentary go a
long way to keeping me from blowing things up, because you've already done it
for me :-)
But before I get too far in reporting about the Pinto let me say my buddy Hank
Buettner is going in on the expense and labor with
me. Hank has joined our Alaska EVA Group but I don't think he's yet on this
list. He's into it for the build experience and is
the type that may do it for business or education of others. (So Hank if your
reading go ahead and pipe in) Otherwise just know
that when I say "I'm" doing something it really means "We" have been doing
something.
That said there's still a lot of things I need to figure out and I guess now is
as good a time as any to open discussion in hopes
some of you old time motor heads can save me beating my head against the wall.
As Jim says about "lessons they don't teach you in
books".
The big thing right now for me is to figure out the rear gear ratio that I
should start with. To do that I really need to peg the
safe RPM limit for the WarP9's. I know its probably in the archives but could
anyone remember the outcome of the discussions
about where that red line is on the WarP9 RPM limit. (no Jim I know its not the
big round thing between the end caps, I know thats
called the housing ;-) I remember Jeff's that apparently crossed over that line
though and I'd care not to duplicate the effort.
And hopefully this new 1.370" splined shaft out of the TWarp9 will take the
strain of both motors. No, I'd rather find something
new to break ;-P No I wanna break a ford 9" hardend pinion shaft or a 31 (or
35) spline race axle. Then we'll know the EV parts
are working and that we're hooking power to the pavement. For now the current
thinking is a 3.21 with 22 inch tires for 115mph @
5638rpm OR 3.42 with 22 inch tires for 110mph @ 5746rpm.
Dare I venture above 6Krpm on the 9"? How about with some extra kevlar straps
around the Arm? If I can safely run the rpm to
6500 I'd without a doubt run a 3.73 gear, but not as far as a 4.11. I'm
tending more toward the idea that a higher top end speed
for the last 1/3rd of the track is where you are really covering distance fast.
As long as the jack rabbit starts are not
compromised too much. Maybe you long timer drag racers could set me straight.
Jim you ain't a drag racer are you? 'cause you
got other things to keep me straight on ;-P
I'll let it go for now. I do want to do some discussion about holding an EVent
up north. I'll definitely pull something together
IF we get the Pinto running and IFF it doesn't take all the time I have. I
know some folks in the transport business and am going
to work on a one time good deal to haul some number of cars up this way. (One
way would be cheaper - and that would leave enough
EV's here so I won't get lonely at the track :-O If it doesn't pan out though,
then at least haul the Pinto to PIR. Maybe take her
on a Ferry ride down the Inside Passage. Thats a cheap poor man's 3-day cruise
through some of the most beautiful parts of Alaska
if anyone is interested. Do they let pinto's run lose on the grass at PIR?
More later.
Mike
Anchorage, Ak.
> John Wayland wrote:
> It's been a bit lonely without lots of other electric street cars to
> play with :-) I miss Maniac Mazda.
> Mike Willmon wrote:
> >Pinto is in progress.
> John Wayland wrote:
> Wow, this is soooo exciting to read about! I've seen Mike's work in
> person, so I can guarantee this will be a high quality job.
>
--- End Message ---
