EV Digest 6592
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) EVLN(SCAQMD ordering 30 more phEVs)-long
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: You Write so WE don't have to, WAS Blow Things Up,
So You Don't Have To...2007
by Colin Frame <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) EVLN(Cleanova II used in Fiat Doblo EV conversions)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) EVLN(Students aiming at industry-ready EV in 2 years)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) EVLN(Ed Begley interview promotes EVs)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) EVLN(GM may never build the Volt phEV)-long
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) EVLN(100mi+ commute Nevadans want Titus' hybrid incentive$)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) EVLN(Hyundai plans Avante Hybrid sales in 2009)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) How about detailed battery FAQs?
by "Deanne Mott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Battery Dilemma
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: ***DHSPAM*** Re: We Blow Things Up, So You Don't Have To...2007
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Horrifying trailer towing experience
by "bortel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: How about detailed battery FAQs?
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Newbie melts a battery terminal
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(SCAQMD ordering 30 more phEVs)-long
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.cleantechblog.com/2007/03/aqmd-orders-30-more-phev.html
AQMD Orders 30 more PHEV By John Addison (3/19/07)
South Coast Air Quality Management
District (AQMD) is ordering 30 more plug-in hybrid electric
vehicles (PHEV) that are likely to achieve over 100 mpg. Ten will
be Toyota (TM) Priuses converted to PHEV by Hymotion using A123
5kWh lithium nanophosphate polymer batteries. 20 will be Ford (F)
Escapes converted to PHEV by Quantum (QTWW) using Advanced
Lithium Power batteries.
Total investment in the 30 vehicles and charging stations will be
$3,777,843. AQMD will contribute most of the money. The vehicles
will be placed with cities and commercial fleets that will pay
the normal price of the hybrid vehicles. The recent contract
award gives AQMD participants the opportunity to make additional
purchases of the awarded vehicles. The winning vendors will also
participate in cost sharing.
If you drive 10,000 miles per year, then you average about 27
miles per day. 80% of the time, a U.S. driver does not exceed 50
vehicle miles in one day. Since most U.S. households have two
vehicles, millions could have one be an electric vehicle with a
range of greater than 50 miles. The gasoline powered vehicle
could take care of the occasional distance trips. Yet, families
and friends resist the idea of sharing cars. Many also insist
that each car be ready to go hundreds of miles on a moments
notice.
Southern California is home to thousands of battery electric
vehicles (BEV). Most are specialized utility vehicles limited in
range and in speeds of 25 mph. New EVs with greater range and
freeway speeds are coming from companies like Phoenix Motorcars
and Tesla Motors.
The plug-in hybrid electric vehicle (PHEV) may be ideal for
people who like the green benefits of running on electricity, but
require extended range. PHEVs can potentially handle most trips
in electric-only mode. The Priuses ordered by AQMD only run in
electric mode at least than 35 miles per hour. PHEVs can be
plugged into garage outlets for evening recharging. PHEVs can
plug into other charging stations, although there is a lack of
industry standards.
AQMD has been achieving over 100 mpg in its test of a Toyota
Priuses modified to be a PHEV using Valence batteries. AQMD has
also seen success with two PHEV DaimlerChrysler Sprinter Vans.
One uses NiMH batteries. The other Saft li-ion batteries. Five
more PHEV Sprinter Vans are planned for carrying passengers.
Major Southern California electric utilities and the City of
Santa Monica have also been early owners of PHEVs.
The idea of plugging-in is not new. We are in the habit of
recharging our mobile phone every night. Soon, we may also be
recharging our vehicle every night. Hymotion is planning on
making PHEV conversion kits available to consumers later in 2007.
Hymotion is targeting a price of $9,500 installed for the Prius.
PHEV enthusiasts are likely to convert. Since the conversions
normally void Toyota and Ford factory warranties, many consumers
will wait for the OEMs to make their own offerings. Fleet
conversion kits are now offered. Green Car Congress Article
PHEV awards are being made in increasing quantities. These
financial awards and the successful implementation of the
vehicles will encourage major automotive OEMs to start selling
their own PHEVs. Toyota and GM have formally announced PHEV
development. GM owns about 15% of Quantum, which in turn owns
19.9% of Advanced Lithium Power. No OEM has committed to a
specific timeframe for PHEV commercial sales. Mitsubishi will
start selling a commercial EV in 2010 in Japan; target price is
under $20,000.
This article is copyright John Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with permission to excerpt, reproduce and publish. This
article appears in full at the Clean Fleet Report.
http://www.cleanfleetreport.com
===
http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20070319006194&newsLang=en
March 19, 2007 04:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time
South Coast AQMD Awards Hymotion, A123Systems and AeroVironment
Contract to Supply the State of California with Plug-In Hybrid
Electric Fleet Vehicles
Contract will Provide First Nanophosphate Lithium-Ion Batteries
to Power +150MPG PHEVs for the State of California
WATERTOWN, Mass.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Hymotion and A123Systems today
announced that the South Coast Air Quality Management District
(AQMD) has awarded the companies a contract to provide 10
converted plug-in hybrid electric passenger vehicles (PHEVs). The
South Coast AQMD PHEV program will evaluate and help identify a
recommended PHEV-conversion method for the state of California.
The AQMD has identified the use of alternative clean fuels as a
key air quality attainment strategy, and has sponsored plug-in
hybrid electric vehicle (PHEV) demonstrations for over six years
because of the potential for this technology to enable
zero-tailpipe emissions for portions of a typical driving cycle.
Similar to commercially available hybrid-electric vehicles
(HEVs), PHEVs utilize a battery pack and an electric motor in
concert with an internal combustion engine. PHEVs, however,
employ a larger battery pack which can be designed to extend the
electric portion of the driving cycle, providing improved fuel
economy, lower greenhouse gas emissions and reduced petroleum
dependence.
The Hymotion solution incorporates A123Systems batteries into a
highly advanced PHEV module that is lightweight, compact and
requires minimal modification to the stock vehicle. All necessary
components and safety features are integrated and contained
within the module, including: batteries, power electronics, crash
sensors, power electronics, charger, battery management system,
safety sensors and manual-electric interlock. Due to its plug and
play installation, the system does not require removal of the OEM
battery pack and can be installed in less than 2 hours.
"This exciting program will not only demonstrate the power of
todays technology, but pave the way for larger-scale
demonstrations of Plug-In Hybrid technology in Southern
California," said Ricardo Bazzarella, Founder and President of
Hymotion.
The awarded solution uses A123Systems' nanophosphate technology
that provides unprecedented specific power, safety and life - all
critical to the optimization and commercialization of PHEVs.
A123Systems' automotive class lithium ion technology renders the
solution durable and more safe than other chemistries. The system
is expected to get up to 220 miles per gallon in city driving and
cut carbon dioxide emissions in half. The solution also includes
power processing and rapid chargers provided by AeroVironment,
Inc.
"California has traditionally served as a leader to the rest of
the country in matters of air quality and renewable energy," said
David Vieau, President and CEO of A123Systems. "This award is
further validation of our efforts to date as we continue on our
path to providing smarter, more fuel-efficient and market-ready
options for organizations, agencies and individuals that are
concerned about fuel consumption and the environment."
As a leading developer and supplier of commercial fast charge
systems for electric vehicles and power processing equipment, we
are pleased to support the South Coast AQMDs plans for
demonstrating the potential of PHEV technology, said Tim Conver,
CEO of AeroVironment.
A123Systems and Hymotion are also working with NYSERDA on a
program that could put as many as 600 Plug-In Hybrids on the
roads of New York State. Additionally, A123Systems recently
announced that it is working with General Motors and Cobasys on
the Saturn Green Line Vue Plug-In Hybrid program, and that the
company is working with GE to develop systems for the hybrid bus
market. A123Systems recently received a $15 million development
contract for next generation HEV batteries from the U.S.
Department of Energy and the United States Advanced Battery
Consortium (USABC), an organization composed of DaimlerChrysler
Corporation, Ford Motor Company and General Motors Corporation.
[...]
Contacts fama PR Greg Wind, 617-758-4173 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
© Business Wire 2007
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
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. EV List Editor & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
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Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545367
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Same here! John's posts are the main reason I belong to this list. In
fact, I usually un-subsribe in the fall after John's last race, and
re-subscribe in the spring so I can follow his exploits in a new season
of racing (and other adventures). Keep it up John!
Colin Frame
Paul G. wrote:
On Mar 24, 2007, at 6:12 AM, Bob Rice wrote:
WE CARE! Don't think for a nanosecond that we arent listening! No,
honestly, guyz, don't ya scroll down to John's post and read it FIRST!
Yup, in fact John's posts are marked red by my e-mail filters before
being dropped in my EV inbox.
Paul G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Cleanova II used in Fiat Doblo EV conversions)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=120055
Cleanova System for Fiat Doblo Turns Little Car 100 Percent
Electric Date posted: 03-20-2007
PARIS Dassault-Heuliez of France has developed a system called
Cleanova II that turned a Fiat Doblo into a 100 percent electric
vehicle. The system combines an electric motor from the Quebec
company TM4 with lithium-ion batteries. The Doblo with this
system was displayed at the Geneva auto show earlier this month.
The Cleanova II system has also been tested on the Renault
Kangoo, notably by the French post office, and the company now
plans to put it into production. Vehicles equipped with the
Cleanova II system would cost somewhere around $10,000 extra,
according to a report by the French electric-vehicle organization
AVEM. Dassault-Heuliez says it projects production of about 1,000
electric-powered vehicles, which will be built by the Heuliez
factory in Deux-Sèvres, France 400 of which would be Doblos and
600 Kangoos. At least for the near future, however, the company
plans only to sell them to businesses and municipalities.
What this means to you: The day is coming when affordable
electric cars are available to the general public and projects
like this are a start.
[image slideshow
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=120055#3
Cleanova II system makes the Fiat Doblo a 100 percent electric
car. The application will be tested in limited production on Fiat
Doblos and Renault Kangoos, with willing European cities and
private companies as the first clients. (Photo courtesy of
AVEM)]
© 1995-2007 Edmunds Inc.
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
: MEPIS Linux & WiFi powered :
____________________________________________________________________________________
Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Students aiming at industry-ready EV in 2 years)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.pddnet.com/scripts/ShowPR.asp?RID=20940&CommonCount=0
Building the Future Engineer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Last year at this time, I had the pleasure of participating in
the annual awards presentation for Dimension 3D Printing Groups
Extreme Redesign contest.
[...]
Before we start to think that getting students interested in
engineering requires only fun and games, some student programs
are a little more serious. The Vehicle Design Summit, started at
MIT, is a consortium of engineering students from around the
globe that has created four electric vehicles already and is now
aiming at creating an industry-ready electric vehicle within the
next two years. The ultimate goal of the student-led consortium
is to find alternative sustainable transportation technologies.
There are several engineering educational programs being
developed by several companies, far too many to mention in this
space. They are all designed to attract students to the
engineering field. What it means is that a significant portion of
the engineering community has taken notice of the importance of
building its future workforce. And, its having a little fun a
long the way.
Copyright 2007 Advantage Business Media
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
: MEPIS Linux & WiFi powered :
____________________________________________________________________________________
It's here! Your new message!
Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.
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--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Ed Begley interview promotes EVs)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.greenoptions.com/blog/2007/03/22/the_green_options_interview_ed_begley_jr
The Green Options Interview: Ed Begley, Jr.
Filed on Mar 22, 2007 at 7:45AM PST By Jeff McIntire-Strasburg
Ed Begley, Jr., in the Klamath Siskiyou region of California
For nearly forty years, actor and environmental activist Ed Begley,
Jr., has both talked the talk and walked the walk in advocating
for a healthier human relationship with the natural world. [...]
Despite success and fame, Ed still lives in a modest home in
Studio City, CA, that sports solar panels and an organic
vegetable garden. He often cooks with a solar oven, and makes
toast in the morning with a toaster powered by a stationary
bicycle. He's been known to show up for big Hollywood events on a
real bicycle.
I spoke with Ed by phone on March 15th. We talked while he was
driving his wife's Prius to the bottler of his cleaning products,
Begley's Best.
Green Options: Since you're in the middle of a trip for Begley's
Best, why don't we start there. Now, let me clarify: this isn't a
case of you simply licensing your name and image for a product,
right?
Ed Begley, Jr.: No, no, I have no employees, and I do it all
mysef. I'm driving to my bottler's in San Bernadino to drop off
some product, and pick some up. That's one of the wonderful
things about doing this on my own: shipping costs are so high
now, that it costs about $80 for me to ship, say, four cartons of
the product to a supermarket in Santa Barbara. And, of course,
they don't pay me for the shipping -- I have to do that myself.
If I drive it up myself, I spend about $7 in fuel at today's gas
prices. This way, I sell it at a competitive price, and the
customer's happy, the store's happy, and I'm happy! And, you get
some very personal time with people like the grocery buyer, the
store manager, and that means a lot.
The very first order I got was from a store called Lassen's
Market. Lassen's ordered one case of this product I sell. So, I
put the product in my electric car, and drove it the 35 miles to
their store. The guy who signed for it, a really nice guy, was a
little shocked to see me, but he signed for it, and I left. When
I got home from the trip, there was a message from my broker
asking "What did you just do?" I told him "I dropped the product
off. You said they ordered it, so I took it to them." He said,
"They just called, and were so amazed that you brought the
product to them that they want to order four more cases!" I told
him, "OK, whatever you say," and so I drove back again.
That's the way it's been; that personal touch helps a lot. I ship
every order myself that comes in over the internet. I don't
bottle it myself -- the bottling company does that, and puts it
in cases, but, after that, it's all me. And that works very
well.
GO: So this is truly a home-based business?
EB: Yes, it is!
[...]
GO: Great! I'll have to give that a try! Since you're driving in
your Prius, I'll go ahead and move on to vehicles. I know you've
been promoting the Phoenix Motorcars SUT, and have talked about
that to a number of other publications. Do you think electric
vehicles have finally reached the point where they can move into
the mass market?
EB: I think so -- yes I do. I think because of advances in the
battery technologies, electric vehicles are at a place where more
people can use them. They're not for everybody; they're not even
for all of my trips! If I've got to go to Santa Barbara, I don't
drive my electric car; I drive my wife's Prius like I'm doing
now. Now, with the greater range on this new truck, I might be
able to do that. But for short trips, and for driving around LA,
I'm going to take the electric car. Both it and the Prius are
great vehicles. We're fortunate enough to be a two-car family, so
we have the ability to trade cars -- that works out pretty nice!
GO: What do you think about other EVs or hybrids either in
production, or being released as concepts? I'm thinking
particularly of the Tesla Roadster, which has received a lot of
press, or the Chevy Volt, GMs new concept? Do you have any
thoughts on those?
EB: I think those other cars hold a lot of promise. I haven't had
a chance to drive the Volt, of course, but I can't wait to see it
and test drive it.
There are so many tools in our toolbox to clean up our air and
lessen our dependence on Middle Eastern oil. Electric cars are
one thing, hybrid cars are one thing, and natural gas cars are
another. Biodiesel is very exciting. You know, my friend Daryl
Hannah has been driving a biodiesel car for a while. It's very
exciting to see what Daryl, Willie Nelson, and others are doing
to promote that technology. It's got great potential to power a
lot of our trips in this country in a very clean manner. So, I'm
very much in favor of biodiesel, too.
GO: Of course, the major automakers have taken some heat for not
embracing some of these cleaner car technologies more quickly. Do
you think the established auto makers are getting it that there's
a demand for these cars, and a need for them?
EB: I hope so. I really hope so. I like to buy American cars:
that's why I drove a GM EV1, and why I drove a Ford Contour
natural gas car for years. I like to buy American -- I think
that's the way to go. Unfortunately, they don't offer anything
like the RAV4 electric vehicle that I drive every day. They don't
offer anything like my wife's Toyota Prius that I'm driving to
San Bernadino and back. When we bought the Prius, they finally
came out with the Ford Escape. I have friends that have one, and
who've driven both cars, and say the Prius is the better vehicle.
That's a shame. I wish that weren't the case.
[...]
Some Rights Reserved Green Options LLC
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
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. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
: MEPIS Linux & WiFi powered :
____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss an email again!
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EVLN(GM may never build the Volt phEV)-long
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070323/AUTO01/703230356/1148
GM tries to unplug Volt hype Sharon Terlep / The Detroit News
Friday, March 23, 2007
[image - Jeffrey Sauger / General Motors
GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz introduces the Chevrolet Volt concept
at Detroit's North American International Auto Show. The Volt
has attracted much attention since its unveiling in January.]
General Motors Corp. seized the world's attention in January when
it unveiled plans to build the Chevy Volt -- a plug-in hybrid car
touted not so much as a mode of transportation but as part of a
solution to the nation's energy crisis.
The Volt grabbed headlines, lit up online chat boards and
dominated the buzz at the auto show in Detroit.
There's just one problem: The Volt may never get built.
Production depends on advances in battery technology that could
be years away. The uncertainty led to intense debate within GM
over whether it was wise to show the Volt in Detroit. And now
that the world's waiting for GM to deliver what could be the
biggest environmental breakthrough so far this century, company
officials are actively trying to temper expectations.
The enormity of GM's challenge was evident last week when it
called journalists to a backgrounder to explain the technological
hurdles facing the Volt project -- and reiterate that it can't
guarantee the futuristic car will ever hit the road.
"The pressure is intense," Nick Zielinski, the Volt's chief
engineer, said at the event, which attracted more than 100
reporters. "We came out with this idea and now people are saying,
'OK, where is this car. We want it now.' "
The auto industry has disappointed before when it comes to green
technology.
DaimlerChrysler AG promised a production fuel-cell vehicle by
2004, but couldn't deliver despite spending $1 billion on the
technology. And little came of a $1.5 billion taxpayer-funded
effort, called the Partnership for a New Generation of Vehicles,
to build an 80-miles-per-gallon car. Last year, Ford Motor Co.
took an image beating when it backed away from a pledge to put
250,000 hybrids on the road by 2010.
Still, GM's Volt gamble could pay off big for an automaker trying
to transform its behind-the-times image. A vehicle loaded with
cutting-edge green technology would position GM as an
environmental leader and help it compete against foreign rivals
that dominate the growing market for Earth-friendly cars and
trucks.
The concept Volt is designed with an electric drivetrain and an
internal combustion engine that recharges the vehicle's batteries
while on the road.
While the range of plug-in cars has typically been no more than
20 to 30 miles on battery power alone, the Volt would have a
range of 40 miles, GM says, and drivers wouldn't have to stop
every time it needs a charge.
There's just one obstacle.
"All of this is irrelevant until they get a battery pack
invented," said Joseph Phillippi of AutoTrends Consulting in
Short Hills, N.J. "For a long time, they were out there knocking
the idea of a plug-in hybrid. Now they're on board, but,
theoretically, GM is still learning."
Remember GM's EV1?
The Volt isn't GM's first foray into electric cars. In the 1990s,
the automaker spent $1 billion on its EV1 electric car program,
which ended when GM demanded the return of its leased vehicles.
The decision drew the ire of environmental groups and EV1 drivers
and spawned the unflattering "Who Killed the Electric Car?"
documentary.
GM chairman and CEO Rick Wagoner has called killing the EV1 his
biggest mistake. For evidence he was right look no further than
Japan's Toyota Motor Corp. The maker of the popular Prius hybrid
has capitalized on its green image just as more Americans are
embracing environmentalism.
With the Volt, GM has a shot at redemption.
"It's a breakthrough of immense magnitude -- potentially one of
the two or three most significant game changers that we've seen
in a long time," said David Cole, chairman of the Center for
Automotive Research in Ann Arbor.
When the time came to unveil plans for the Volt, GM wanted to
make a bold statement.
Wagoner began dropping hints about GM's plans in November at the
Los Angeles Auto Show, where he listed developing alternative
energy sources as one of GM's top priorities. When it debuted in
January in Detroit, the Volt generated glowing praise for its
striking appearance and the technology behind it.
Shortly after the show, GM launched a "Vote for Volt" Web site,
which asks visitors if they think GM should build the Volt and if
they would consider buying one. Nearly 440,000 people had cast
votes as of Thursday.
With all the attention, though, has come intense and sometimes
scathing scrutiny.
Some dismiss the move as a publicity stunt by a company
struggling to stay relevant. Others question whether GM was being
realistic in pinning its hopes on the uncertain science of
battery technology. Still others say GM's Asian rivals are likely
to beat it to the punch.
"GM has more of a recent history of failure than of being at the
cutting edge," said Bruce Vanden Bergh, a Michigan State
University advertising professor.
GM faces a credibility challenge with the American public, Vanden
Bergh said.
If the Volt flops, it could do irreparable damage to the
company's reputation.
"They'd better make it work," he said, "or they're going to look
stupid."
Rival questions strategy
At least one GM rival questions the automaker's strategy.
Nancy Gioia, Ford's director of sustainable mobility technologies
and hybrids, said while it is important to showcase innovative
research, there is little value in committing to a technology
that still generates more questions than it answers and may not
even be commercially viable.
That's why Ford's plug-in hybrid was displayed in a corner of its
Detroit auto show pavilion, rather than center stage, where GM
showcased the Volt.
"If we say we're going to do something," she said. "You're going
to see it."
Even GM insiders debated the wisdom of rolling out the Volt
without the battery technology needed to power it and some early
concerns have been realized. On Capitol Hill, for example, there
is a general lack of understanding about how a concept vehicle
becomes a production model, Zielinski said. As a result, GM's
credibility is in question in some corners.
To deal with skeptics, GM has made public an unprecedented amount
of information about a vehicle still in development.
GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz said this week that GM's strategy is to
let people know about any problems early so they don't feel duped
should the Volt not succeed, a risk he estimates to be about 10
percent.
"Having said that," he wrote in an e-mail, "I am growingly
convinced that we will pull it off."
No matter what GM's strategy, the automaker is bound to take
heat, said Cole of the Center for Automotive Research.
"There are a lot of anti-GM skeptics," he said. "It's the penalty
that comes with being No. 1."
Detroit News staff writers Bryce G. Hoffman and Christine Tierney
contributed to this report. You can reach Sharon Terlep at
(313)223-4686 or [EMAIL PROTECTED]
© Copyright 2007 The Detroit News. All rights reserved.
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Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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. EV List Editor & AFV newswires
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EVLN(100mi+ commute Nevadans want Titus' hybrid incentive$)
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http://www.klas-tv.com/Global/story.asp?S=6267545
Jonathan Humbert [EMAIL PROTECTED] Legislative Reporter
State Senator Looks to Make Buying Hybrid Car Easier
March 22, 2007 03:47 PM PDT
Shopping for a new car is always stressful, but one state senator
wants to make that experience easier and cheaper.
Mike McClure is like a lot of Nevadans. He has a long commute.
"It's 104 miles a day for me roundtrip," said McClure. And this
former marine sergeant is downright militant about rising gas
prices.
"It's about time to think about an alternate way," he said. So
McClure's leaning toward buying a new car and keeping his options
open. "But you know, if I can get something better, that may be a
possibility. That's why I'm kind of looking."
McClure's looking into getting a hybrid car. With a combined
gas/electric engine, his drive along the mountain roads to Tahoe
could be more fuel efficient and cheaper. But there's a catch.
Now normal gas powered cars are going to run a little bit
cheaper. But advanced technology means an advanced price tag.
Senator Dina Titus wants to give hybrid owners an extra incentive
that'll make a normal hard sell into a very easy sell.
"It takes away the registration fee, the tag fee, the title fee,"
said Titus.
Titus feels drivers would be more inclined to buy a hybrid if
they didn't have to go to the DMV to pay for plates, a title, and
registration. It's her goal to bring a greener Nevada into
focus.
"Well, we have a very independent spirit in Nevada, and we like
to drive. We have wide open spaces. But I think that independent
spirit can be channeled towards kind of scientific technology as
well," said Titus.
Back at the dealership, the test drive went well, and Mike
McClure seems closer to making a decision that'll help his
pocketbook and the environment.
"And I think once we can figure out a car that's going to be able
to run on battery all day long, I think we're really going to go
a long ways," said McClure.
For years, we've heard about long waiting lists for hybrids.
Dealers tell us though that those lists have shrunk and you'll
likely be able to get the car you want the same day.
© Copyright 2000 - 2007 WorldNow and KLAS. All Rights Reserved.
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
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. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
: MEPIS Linux & WiFi powered :
____________________________________________________________________________________
Need Mail bonding?
Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396546091
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Hyundai plans Avante Hybrid sales in 2009)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200703/200703230026.html
Hyundai Gives a Tour of its Hybrid Research Center
([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Lee Ki-sang, the head of the hybrid vehicle team at Hyundai
Motor¡¯s Namyang Technology Research Center, is confident about
the future of Korea¡¯s hybrid car. ¡°We can develop a hybrid car
that is way better than Honda¡¯s by 2009,¡± he says. ¡°Korea has
battery manufacturers included in the world¡¯s top 10 and boasts
the most advanced electronics technology. Because we are working
with such companies, I am confident that we¡¯ll make a great
achievement.¡±
Hybrid cars are energy-efficient, environmentally-friendly cars
that combine an on-board rechargeable battery and a
gasoline-powered engine. Japanese car makers such as Honda and
Toyota dominate over 90 percent of the global hybrid market,
while Hyundai is only at a stage where it is test-producing some
vehicles for government use.
[ /Courtesy of Hyundai Motor
http://english.chosun.com/media/photo/news/200703/200703230026_01.jpg
Researchers at Hyundai Motor¡¯s Namyang Technology Research
Center test components that will be used in its hybrid cars.]
¡ß Getting ready to compete with Japan
The Namyang Technology Research Center is where all the work on
Hyundai's hybrid vehicles is taking place. Concerned about
security, Hyundai has never shown the center to the public
before. Entering the lab, one can see some 100 researchers
working at their computers or various testing devices in an open
space of around 1,000 sq.m. The core component of a hybrid car is
the hybrid control unit (HCU) that controls all vehicle systems
including the engine, power and brake systems. Some researchers
were testing the HCU with high-tech devices with three or four
computer monitors. Others were testing Japanese and Korean
vehicles in a workshop.
Hyundai plans to produce 3,390 hybrid cars for the government by
2008 and start commercial sales from 2009 with its Avante Hybrid,
which is one of the models being tested at the workshop. The
Avante Hybrid will be Hyundai's flagship in the category, which
it plans to sell both at home and in the U.S. where it will
compete with the Honda Civic Hybrid.
¡ß Technology Works, Now Hyundai Must Lower Hybrid Prices
Although Hyundai Motor started its hybrid project in 1997, it
didn't take the idea seriously because the company thought the
vehicles would be quickly replaced by hydrogen fuel-cell cars.
But favorable sales of Japanese hybrids in the U.S. and movements
in North America and Europe to tighten regulations on carbon
dioxide emissions prompted the company to change its mind.
Having already supplied Click Hybrid vehicles to the government
in 2004, Hyundai has proved that its technology is as good as
Japan¡¯s. The problem is the price tag. ¡°The biggest obstacle we
have in developing hybrids is not technology but cost,¡± Lee
says. ¡°We still can¡¯t procure parts like motors, inverters and
batteries as cheaply as the Japanese car makers.¡±
As a result, Hyundai wants all its core components to be
Korean-made by 2009. ¡°It¡¯s not easy to develop car batteries
that can endure high temperatures and absorb a strong impact,¡± a
team member says. ¡°But we¡¯ll do our best to produce hybrid cars
with Korean-made components, so that we can enhance our
competitiveness.¡±
Copyright (c) 2007 The Chosun Ilbo & Digital Chosun Ilbo All
rights reserved.
===
http://wikicars.org/en/Hyundai_Elantra
The Hyundai Elantra (sold in South Korea as the Avante) is a
compact car from Hyundai of South Korea
[image
http://wikicars.org/images/en/thumb/3/3a/800px-Hyundai_Elantra_silver_vr.jpg/400px-800px-Hyundai_Elantra_silver_vr.jpg
]
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
: MEPIS Linux & WiFi powered :
____________________________________________________________________________________
Don't pick lemons.
See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is related to my previous post about melting a battery terminal and
also the post on expanded motor FAQs. As a newbie, I would love to see the
same done for battery care that Jim is doing for motors. Even before my
meltdown, I've experienced alot of anxiety over care and feeding of
batteries - determined not to be a typical newbie that kills her first
pack! Reading the current FAQs are a good start, but for example we have
4. Don't overcharge
5. Don't undercharge
For me, I do not know how to simultaneously achieve both goals without more
details, as someone with no BMS, no e-meter, and a K&W BC20 charger.
Eventually I will likely upgrade and add those things - but before spending
the $$ I want to get to know better how my car works and then research my
options. Another example from the list I read alot is "Keep the amperage
down" - how many amps are we talking about and for how long? I realize
there are lots of parameters and variables for batteries, and this would be
a huge job for someone to undertake, but IMHO batteries are by far the
biggest problem for newbies like me and probably the main reason why people
give up on their EVs.
Another useful thing might be a collection of stories: "How I Killed my
first pack", and then "What I did to Not Kill my second pack". Maybe
another entry in the evalbum?
thanks - De
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Delimma, Do I send in all 20 batteries to exide for analysis or live
with the reduced capacity and inevitable demise.
backstory:
I have reduced capacity on my exide orbital pack and the distributer
replaced under warranty the 4 that failed obviously.
Since then I have been commutting to work and it actually makes the 12
or 14 miles(6 or 7 oneway). But at around 8miles (half way home) a few
began to drop below 10.5 ( te reg led comes on) during acceleration and
I have to go lighter and lighter on the acceleration to keep the pack
voltage above 240 (24 batteries).
When I wait an hour and measure voltage it indicates at least 30%
capacity remains but if I use a 250 A load 1/2 the batteries show a
solid 10.3V and the other half drop to 6V and I abort the test. Fully
charged, they all can belch out 15sec of 250 without dropping below 11.
(limit of my tester)
I didn't want to replace 1/2 the pack so I asked what the distributer
could do on pro-rate perhaps, This is month 17 of the 18month free
replacement warranty.
The factory said to send them on for analysis. Some of this will be
destructive analysis, I am sure.
Any one delt with this before? If I send them in I am without my EV for
weeks, and am assured I will be buying a new pack, either pro-rated or
not, or 1/2 replaced and half purchased. Anyones guess.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
OMG! I just figured if we all responded you would be deluged with stuff.
Rest assured I read your stories and even forward them or print them out
sometimes to show to friends at work. How's that for rude, redistributed
without your express consent ;-) You are an inspiration, a pioneer, and
for some of us, a hero!. When i go to the battery place and they want
to know more, they get your web address. Same with Kragens and all
those people at work who see my "gasnomr" plate and make the mistake of
asking.
Thanks for all your efforts and for shareing your adventures. Race On.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I tow vehicles and other stuff on a 18' tandem axle trailer regularly as
part of my business. The loads are usually much heavier than the Chevy Astro
van that I use to tow with. Because of needing to have 60% of the weight in
front of the axle center line for stability, this results in a tongue weight
that is usually well over 500lbs. Since the Astro's rear suspension won't
hold up that much weight, I use an Equalizer (load leveling) hitch. This
combination has worked well for many thousands of miles of towing all over
the U.S. and Canada(the 2000 Astro has close to 190k miles on it now). So,
if you want to tow heavy loads with a light vehicle, this is a setup that
works.
Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: Finn John [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 11:49 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Horrifying trailer towing experience
This can be a really hairy situation, especially with a towing vehicle that
outweighs its load. Glad you're OK and your voiture is repairable. I've seen
a couple of loads go like this, the vehicle being towing usually ends up
being whipped back and forth like a dog's chew toy.
Anyway, it's caused by too much weight aft of the axle. It's the same
dynamic that causes taildragger airplanes to be prone to ground looping --
the center of gravity wants to be toward the front of the vehicle rather
than the back. To avoid it, make sure you've got one or two hundred pounds
of tongue weight and you should be OK, even with a lighter-weight tow
vehicle. If you can't get the car far enough forward on the trailer to do
that, you just end up making the whole trip at 30 mph ...
Lots of you guys already know this, I know, but for anybody who doesn't,
it's good to know!
--Finn
----- Original Message ----
From: David Sharpe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 10:14:12 PM
Subject: Horrifying trailer towing experience
This morning I had my EV (converted Diahatsu) on a tandem (2 axles) trailer
being towed by my Peugeot 406 Diesel. I was on my way to a country fair
whose them was Human powered vehicles. Anyway the trailer got into
uncontrollable oscillations at speeds past 40 mph and jacknifed. Luckily no
one was hurt but the Peugeot was not so lucky and had a bent rear right axle
and damaged panels. The EV stayed on the trailer and was not damaged. In
fact I drove it home from the accident to get another veh to tow the trailer
home. The Peug went off on a tilt bed for repairs. I estimate that the
trailer & EV weighed 2 tonnes. The towing vehicle about 1.5 tonnes. In
retrospect I shouldnt have done this trip. I think my weight balances were
not right. Probably should have been towing with a 2 ton or more vehicle. I
bring this to your attention so others can learn by my mistake. David
____________________________________________________________________________
________
Finding fabulous fares is fun.
Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and
hotel bargains.
http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've experienced alot of anxiety over care
> and feeding of
> batteries - determined not to be a typical newbie
> that kills her first
> pack! Reading the current FAQs are a good start,
> but for example we have
>
> 4. Don't overcharge
> 5. Don't undercharge
>
> For me, I do not know how to simultaneously achieve
> both goals without more
> details, as someone with no BMS, no e-meter, and a
> K&W BC20 charger.
Ouch. That explains a lot.
An e-meter (selected to "amps") will tell you that
your pack is pushing the current lower; ie, that you
are almost "full". That way, you know to unplug.
If using floodies, you don't need a BMS.
> Eventually I will likely upgrade and add those
> things - but before spending
> the $$
Respectfully: wrong attitude. (I've learned).
Upgrade, and you'll save money in the long run by
getting more time out of your pack.
E-meter is $500 with power supply, prescaler, etc.
A PFC type of charger will set you back $1000-1600,
but will be worth the faster charge time.
I want to get to know better how my car works
> and then research my
> options. Another example from the list I read alot
> is "Keep the amperage
> down" - how many amps are we talking about and for
> how long?
Think of your motor as a big transformer. It is most
efficient at around 3K RPMs or so. If you send it to
3rd at 45 mph, you lose your torque up a hill. So you
send more battery current. Instead, take the hill at
45. Most of my hills are done in 10-15 sec., but the
motor can do it for longer. The point is, are you
ready to be passed at 45 in a 55 zone for the sake of
saving your battery terminals?
I realize
> there are lots of parameters and variables for
> batteries, and this would be
> a huge job for someone to undertake, but IMHO
> batteries are by far the
> biggest problem for newbies like me
Even us veterans!
and probably the
> main reason why people
> give up on their EVs.
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
____________________________________________________________________________________
Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check.
Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.
http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/newmail_tools.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Fred,
Used a Inch Pounds torque wrench. Battery terminals range in torque from 50
to 105 inch pounds. Go to the
www.trojanbattery.com/Tech-Support/BatteryMaintenance.aspx for what torque
value is use for your batteries.
In using a torque wrench in a battery compartment, slip on some pipe foam
insulation over the handle and tape it on so you do not short between two
battery terminals.
It is best to torque the battery terminals when first installing them.
Drive the EV five miles and re-torque again. You will find that you will
loss about 5 inch lbs on the first 5 miles. Then recheck again at 10 miles,
if you only loss about 1 inch lb, then check again at 50 miles.
If the battery terminals start to maintain about a steady torque of 1 inch
lb per 100 miles, than you can calculated when you will have to check them
again.
The problem with lead post, is that the battery clamp shrinks the post and
some may even pucker or mushroom out the top. I solve this problem by using
a plated brass battery clamp plus use a stainless steel washer on the
battery top stud and install a SS lock washer and nut to put down ward
pressure on the battery clamp.
After about four years of initial installation, I still maintain a 75 inch
pounds of torque on my Trojan T-145's.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "FRED JEANETTE MERTENS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2007 7:50 AM
Subject: Re: Newbie melts a battery terminal
> make sure to check all your battery terminal connection for being tight
> does trojan suggest a torque wrenck ? if so what ft # ?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Deanne Mott<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
> Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 12:30 PM
> Subject: Newbie melts a battery terminal
>
>
> Went to water my batteries this morning, and found a real mess:
>
>
> http://www4.ncsu.edu/~dmott/MeltedBattery2.jpg<http://www4.ncsu.edu/~dmott/MeltedBattery2.jpg>
>
>
> http://www4.ncsu.edu/~dmott/MeltedBattery1.jpg<http://www4.ncsu.edu/~dmott/MeltedBattery1.jpg>
>
> Car details:
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1020<http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1020>
>
> Batteries are Trojan T125's, I believe about 7-8 months old. I've been
> driving it about 3 months. This battery actually reads 6.47V measured
> from
> the terminals of its adjacent batteries, but I know that's at best an
> intermittant situation. The car has been running fine, in fact I was
> just
> feeling like I was getting the hang of things. And a *serious* bummer
> to be
> off the road in prime convertible weather :-( Here's a start on the
> many
> questions I have:
>
> 1. How do I safely clean up this mess of lead?
> 2. Is this battery toast, or can/should it be repaired?
> 3. How could this have happened?
> 4. How can I prevent it from happening again?
> 5. Could any of the other batteries be damaged by this incident?
> 6. Could this have started a fire inside the battery box?
>
> thanks very much - De
>
>
--- End Message ---
