EV Digest 6602
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) WKTEC Director Chris Paine and Chelsea Sexton in Virginia April 11
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: ***DHSPAM*** Re: We Blow Things Up, So You Don't Have To...2007
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Mike's Pinto Project
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: how much 2/0 cable
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Mike's Pinto Project & Gear Ratios
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Hybrid question
by "James Allgood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Converting a mini classic
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Sacramento EV activity
by "Grigg. John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Sacramento EV activity
by "Grigg. John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Converting a mini classic
by Frank John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Li-Ion This and Li-Ion THAT
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Converting a mini classic
by DAVID BARWICK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: vacuum pump question
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Do batt "interconnect" cables see same current as "motor" cables?
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: [EV] Re: EV Funding.
by Eduardo Kaftanski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Cheap EV Alternatives
by "childreypa" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Mike's Pinto Project & Gear Ratios
by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Has anyone played around with the A123 Systems batteries
by "Dmitri" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Cheap EV Alternatives
by "Dmitri" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: Li-Ion This and Li-Ion THAT
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: [EV] Re: EV Funding.
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Anyone consider converting a Pinto
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Li-Ion This and Li-Ion THAT
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
"Who Killed the Electric Car?" Movie Director Chris Paine and former
EV1 Sales Specialist Chelsea Sexton will be at the Northern Virginia
Commumity College for a showing of "Who Killed the Electric Car?"
Date: April 11
Time: 7:30 pm.
Location: Waddell Theater, Northern Virginia Community College
Directions: 1000 Harry Byrd Highway, Sterling Virginia
Admission: Free
After a successful showing of the movie in 2006, Chris Paine and
Chelsea Sexton are on tour and will be on hand at the Northern
Virginia Community College to answer questions about the movie and
the EV1.
The event is sponsored by the Loudoun County Committe for a
Sustainable Society (LCCSS). Electric cars will be display from the
Electric Vehicle Association of Washington DC (EVA/DC). WKTEC T-
shirts will also be available for sale.
For more information visit http://www.lccss.org/wkec
The movie takes an in-depth look of how the EV1 came to be and who
was responsible for pulling the plug on the program and ultimately
crushing the car. The EV1s were driven under their own power to
trucks that hauled them to their untimely deaths.
Chip Gribben
EVA/DC
http://www.evadc.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Bob, Tim, all
> > > Tim Humphrey worte:
> > > Don't go anywhere John. I used to be here just
> > >for your posts too. However, lately I've
> > >found myself searching for Husted's as well.
> >
> > I too have been flagging both of these gentlemen's
> e-mails to pop up in
> red in my Inbox. Although, I think Jim would be
> more at home writing for
> something like a Prize Fighting Magazine. Now give
> it a little EV Racing
> twist and you have now a second good EV Commentator.
> ("Hi I'm Jim", "and
> I'm John from Car & Driver Test Reports", "and we
> both give this one a
> thumbs up.....")
>
> > This should get to PBS, the Motor Bros Arc an'
> Spark, no Click and Clack,
> anymore. "Don't drive like my Bro" and all that
> stuff. John should have a
> column in Car and Driver or Motor Trend, anyhow.
Last year John and I had the chance to sit in front of
a video for a few minutes together when Ted West was
in town (unrealated video guy was there). I felt it
was a classic Plasma boy, Motor dork free for all 8^)
I never did get to see it but it felt fun as John and
I took bites out of each other, LMAO! If I EVer get
my hands on a copy of that I'm make sure you can all
have a look.
Anyways it's nice to know that there are like minded
sickos out there who read my stuff 8^) Not that you
listen though 8^o
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
____________________________________________________________________________________
Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check.
Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.
http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/newmail_tools.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
MIKE WILLMON wrote:
My next concern is the strength of the assembly housing itself.
I see John's mentioned going to a built aluminum carrier (and maybe a whole
aluminum housing)
Mike, the new 'Strange' aluminum third member has arrived, though I
haven't picked it up yet. I am not going to an aluminum housing for the
rest of the axle setup though. I am very pleased with the Dutchman
Motorsports steel 'Street Strip' housing and have had no problems with
it at all. In addition to this new aluminum third member casting, a new
'Wilwood' drag raging disc brake conversion setup has also arrived.
These are specifically designed for drag racing, are extremely light
weight, and for a little Datsun 1200 are huge at 11.3 inches. Together,
these two changes should chop another 50-70 lbs. weight off the car, and
the having four wheel discs will certainly make the car haul itself down
from 110 mph quicker.
After Sunday's foray into flash-over motor volt limits, I've decided to
do another gear ratio change, too. More on this later.
John,
Aside from the cracks around your pinion shaft carrier, how did the chopped assembly housing from the '57 Ford hold up to the abuse?
Very well. I had no problems at all with the stock housing. The only
complaint, was that chopped as it came to me, it placed the third member
off to the passenger side too far. By the time the Dutchman would have
been finished modding the housing and its two axles, it was not a lot
more money to simply start over with the 'Street Strip' housing fitted
with the big bearings and the beefy 31 spline Dutchman axles over the
stock 28 spline ones.
See Ya......John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How are the batteries located in respect to each other?
If they are floodeds, then they are likely all in the same orientation
(caps pointing upward) so the only question is how many
are next to each other in each direction and what are their dimensions?
I have AGMs which lie on their side, so I decided to have them
alternatively facing, two batteries have their terminals pointing
towards each other and their bottoms outwards.
That makes for short cable runs, especially if you have two pairs on top
of each other like that - four batteries connect with 3 very short cables
and 1 longer cable going to the next cluster.
Often the battery layout is also a puzzle in "how to arrange them to get a
logical flow and short cabling?"
Paper and pencil helps.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 12:31 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: how much 2/0 cable
How much battery welding cable does the average 26 battery car take?
25 ft or 50 ft?
I already have the main runs from front of the car to back, (25 ft), but
have to remake 26 inter battery connectors.
Ben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike Willmon wrote:
Maybe someone that works for Northwest Handling Systems has some contacts up
this
way who will do axles??
I'll check with the guys and let you know.
So another question for the list. Since welded gears are not EVen allowed under
NHRA rules and spools are only allowed with aftermarket housings, whats the
strongest type of locking differential to get for drag racing? Detroit,
Auburn, ARB (are ARB Air
lockers EVen strong enough for racing?)?
I think they're all pretty strong. I love the Detroit Locker in White
Zombie. Not a lick of problems to report, and it simply goes about its
business. In a quiet EV, it's pretty cool because you can clearly hear
the locker ratcheting and clicking as the car turns, then when you line
up straight on the strip launch pad, it goes 'Ka-clunk!' as if to say,
"Yeah, I'm ready to help you paint twin blacks stripes." The Detroit has
taken all the power the Siamese 8 has twisted into it and has easily
handled the torque. I would highly recommend one.
I'm pretty sure the new Strange differential is going to be fitted with
a set of 3:70 gears. Two years ago, I chose 4:57 gears and they netted
the car with its best 60 ft. time of 1.59...but only once on a night
with extreme stickiness on the track (your shoes nearly stuck to the
pavement from all the Pro Stock rubber being laid down that night). The
more typical 60 ft. time was 1.62 - 1.66 depending on track conditions.
The 4:57 gears had the motor spinning precariously close to the safe rpm
limits though, at the trap speed of 106 mph. When I considered a ratio
change to prepare the car for a better top end speed with lower motor
rpm, I was worried about losing the incredible hole shot we had. The
choice was to go gradually in a step-by-step procedure, as in from a
4:57 to a 4:38 to a 4:11, or simply bypass the in-between step of 4:38
and going right to the 4:11. If going the two steps straight to the 4:11
indeed, ruined the hole shot while improving the top end, then 'finally'
all those yelling at me about a transmission, would have a point.
History now shows the pro-transmission forces were as I figured, off
base, as the change to the 4:11 didn't affect the hole shot one bit! The
same 1.62-1.66 60 ft. times were being delivered...thank you, abundant
electric motor torque! The unfortunate thing, was that all through '06,
we never saw the top end improvement with the gear ratio change, but
that was more due to the second battery pack not being as strong as the
first one was and the car turned out to be battery limited that
restricted any improvement at th far end of the track. You could see it
in the power graphs we plotted...you could see the pack sagging down,
sometimes as low as 169 volts long before the end of the run.
Now, we have a very strong battery pack that's not even turned up yet.
Because of the pack's stiffer voltage under current, the motor is
getting BIGGER amps at the far end and raising the terminal voltage
across the motor, thus flash-over at higher rpms. Time again, for a
'taller' rear end ratio. I could go from the 4:11 to a 3:90, but
anticipating the kind of power we can get to over-come any kind of loss
out of the hole...remember, we can crank up the battery amps on launch
another 500 amps if we need to...I'm going with another two step move
and will go straight to the 3:70 gears. It's entirely possible this
might be too far and the 60 ft. time will suffer, but it's also possible
that a small loss there might pay big dividends in the 1/8th mile speed
and acceleration that will more than make up for any loss in 60 ft.
time. i guess we'll all have to wait and see :-) The taller legs this
ratio will give the car will keep the motor volts down to where at 110
mph or so it should still be at a low 150V-155V or so. Who knows, maybe
we'll see an 11.9 @ 110 mph next time we hit the track!
Stay tuned....
See Ya......John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The hybrids are actually faster from 0-15mph than most vehicles. It is above
that that their small ICEs start to lag with the falling torque of the the
electric motor. I got the Civic up to 126mph according to the GPS although
it takes a while to get there. On the freeway I get up to 65mph, set the
cruise control and chill one over from the slow lane. If your battery is
depleated it takes a little longer but unless you are on the hills it is not
too slow. I ran out of battery on the Grapevine outside of LA and just had
to take it in 4th at 45mph in the truck lanes.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 12:34 AM
Subject: RE: Hybrid question
Tim,
Keep up with traffic?
Any modern car can keep up with traffic.
I have a Classic Prius (the one with 'only' 12.8 sec 0-60)
and rarely put the pedal to the metal.
Someone who knows me well sat in the backseat (4 adults in the car)
when I turned onto the freeway, so he was expecting a s-l-o-w
acceleration to somewhere below speed limit and was positively
surprised when the Prius shot away and passed the limit
effortlessly in the carpool lane.
He is now re-considering his ideas of Hybrid vehicles and
the extra torque they give on take-off.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
----- Original Message ----
From: Tim Gamber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 7:02:49 PM
Subject: Hybrid question
Hi all one of my friends is planning on buying a hybrid and he seems to be
stuck between three choices.
The nissan altima hybrid
The toyota prius
and the honda civic hybrid
He just like anyone else wants a vehicle that has enough power to keep up
with traffic and gets good gas mileage and it must be a comfortable ride.
I
was just wondering if anyone had any thoughts?
_________________________________________________________________
http://local.live.com/?mkt=en-ca/?v=2&cid=A6D6BDB4586E357F!399
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This looks exactly like the UPG battery that I have in my truck.
When ordering an EV-sized amount (or for several EVs) it may be
worthwhile to contact the manufacturer and see if there is a
dealer in your area, if not - become a dealer and order direct.
UPG ships without cost for orders over $1500 in USA, not sure
where you are located.
Their website has changed recently, could only find a new
product catalog reference here, but their server is a bit
overwhelmed right now:
http://www.universalpowergroup.com/products/download.aspx
Hope this helps,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Justin Southam
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 2:19 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Converting a mini classic
Hi Tom, check this guy out,
"http://www.trademe.co.nz/Members/Listings.aspx?member=137282";. I see from
the website you're looking at an AC motor. Many AC conversions successfully
use gel cell batteries and Ross has them in many sizes from 7 to 110Ahrs. I
haven't bought anything from him yet but plan to soon. The car you see in
his profile is electric. It was for sale, not sure if it sold, i asked but
Ross didn't think it would be up to Wellington hills so i'm still looking.
All the best with the mini conversion.
Cheers,
Justin
Newlands,
Wellington
>
>Finding batteries in New Zealand that don't cost an arm and a leg is my
>current problem. I'm tempted by lithium, as fitting enough lead
>batteries into the car will be difficult.
>
>
>
>--
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.17/732 - Release Date:
>24-03-07
16:36
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Welcome to Sac. I'm not aware of any EV activity here but maybe you
might get some responses from others that might be more in the know...
I just finished building an EV Truck but still working the bugs out.
You are welcome to come see it and maybe give me some pointers on some
issues I'm having...
John Grigg
916-874-9109
916-215-9503 Cell
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/723
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2007 8:40 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Sacramento EV activity
Hello Sacramento...
I checked the EAA website and found the Sacramento website is woefully
out
of date. Kinda like it hasn't been recharged lately...
I am working in the Sacramento area for the next couple of months and am
having EV withdrawel already. Are there any activities or meetings
planned?
I have nothing on the agenda yet for most weekends, how about anyone
needing an EV helping hand?
Reply off list if you like.
Jim
'93 Dodge TEVan
'88 Fiero ESE
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_____________________________________________________________________________
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ooops, replying to the list was an accident, sorry...
John Grigg
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Grigg. John
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 8:01 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Sacramento EV activity
Welcome to Sac. I'm not aware of any EV activity here but maybe you
might get some responses from others that might be more in the know...
I just finished building an EV Truck but still working the bugs out.
You are welcome to come see it and maybe give me some pointers on some
issues I'm having...
John Grigg
916-874-9109
916-215-9503 Cell
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/723
____________________________________________________________________________
COUNTY OF SACRAMENTO EMAIL DISCLAIMER:
This email and any attachments thereto may contain private, confidential, and
privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review,
copying, or distribution of this email (or any attachments thereto) by other
than the County of Sacramento or the intended recipient is strictly prohibited.
If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately
and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any
attachments thereto.
_____________________________________________________________________________
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.racecar-engineering.com/images/features/16_5_6/batterycharger.pdf
Is this the link?
----- Original Message ----
From: Tom Parker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 7:23:22 AM
Subject: Re: Converting a mini classic
On Mon, 2007-03-26 at 07:19 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> HI-
> Sometime over the winter there was a post about an electric race car being
> built in the UK. there was a link to an article in "Racecar Engineering":
> magazine. The drive system was twin motors set parallel with drive ends
> opposite each other. A housing on each end held the motors in place.
> Stub shafts similar to the ones I used on "Gone Postal" were located
> on each end mid way between the motors. These shafts were not
> mechanically connected to each other, but to opposite motors.
> With reduction drive between motors and stub shafts along with
> series/parallel switching, this unit replaces the motor and transaxle.
I was unable to find the link you're talking about, but I think I
understand. If you think only about 1 motor, you place it's drive end to
the far right, use a pully to drive a shaft next to it, transfering
power back to the left, to another pulley to a shaft supporting the
inner CV joint? The other motor fits into the mirror image gap but with
a longer belt somewhere?
= motor
- shaft
+ inner CV joint
| belt or chain
=======|
|======= |
|---- ----|
+ +
I've left out the connection between the shafts and the CV joints.
Such a contraption might fit, especially if it was at a shart angle, so
the front motor was quite high up. The front to back room is also quite
limited.
I really want regenerative braking, so I haven't considered clever
packing of two DC motors. It would be interesting to see some pictures
of how gone postal actually works, the pictures at suckamps.com show
some parts but don't give an idea about how it all fits together.
____________________________________________________________________________________
Don't pick lemons.
See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Geezzz,, I thought that with all the Band Width on Li-Ion
that Bill Dube's anouncement that they were going to actually offer FOR
SALE a little Cube-Like 12V Battery, made up of A123 cells, would have
set the EVDL ON FIRE.....
Bill Quotes...
" Well, we finally built a half-way-decent-looking prototype.
http://www.killacycle.dreamhosters.com/photos/index.php?album=12-volt-racing-battery
So a few paralell strings of these puppies would work.
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Frank
No this is not the link However could i ask your advise .I have for a long
time wished for an electric car and now am faced with time on hand to make it
happen. I am in a built up area and rarely travel above 45 mph my average
journeys are about 21 miles round trip a day i have a lumina apv 1990 which i
use for shopping and school runs having six girls in school the kerb weight of
this lumina is 3500 lbs could i convert this van to an Ev and still have the
seating arrangement and if so what specifications on components would you
recommend .i am a complete novice and do not know anything yet on Ev your help
or pointer would be greatly appreciated . Am i asking to much as i have
forwarded this to several persons to receive a blank
Yours sincerely DAVE
Frank John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
http://www.racecar-engineering.com/images/features/16_5_6/batterycharger.pdf
Is this the link?
----- Original Message ----
From: Tom Parker
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 7:23:22 AM
Subject: Re: Converting a mini classic
On Mon, 2007-03-26 at 07:19 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> HI-
> Sometime over the winter there was a post about an electric race car being
> built in the UK. there was a link to an article in "Racecar Engineering":
> magazine. The drive system was twin motors set parallel with drive ends
> opposite each other. A housing on each end held the motors in place.
> Stub shafts similar to the ones I used on "Gone Postal" were located
> on each end mid way between the motors. These shafts were not
> mechanically connected to each other, but to opposite motors.
> With reduction drive between motors and stub shafts along with
> series/parallel switching, this unit replaces the motor and transaxle.
I was unable to find the link you're talking about, but I think I
understand. If you think only about 1 motor, you place it's drive end to
the far right, use a pully to drive a shaft next to it, transfering
power back to the left, to another pulley to a shaft supporting the
inner CV joint? The other motor fits into the mirror image gap but with
a longer belt somewhere?
= motor
- shaft
+ inner CV joint
| belt or chain
=======|
|======= |
|---- ----|
+ +
I've left out the connection between the shafts and the CV joints.
Such a contraption might fit, especially if it was at a shart angle, so
the front motor was quite high up. The front to back room is also quite
limited.
I really want regenerative braking, so I haven't considered clever
packing of two DC motors. It would be interesting to see some pictures
of how gone postal actually works, the pictures at suckamps.com show
some parts but don't give an idea about how it all fits together.
____________________________________________________________________________________
Don't pick lemons.
See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: Iron Mountain Films
> On my civic EV, I have been popping the 10 amp fuse on
> my zivan DC to DC converter. When it kicks on...
When the *vacuum pump* kicks on?
> ...it reads about an amp surge on ammeter (link 10) on
> the high voltage 136 side.
The Link-10 shows you the average current, but not the peak. It won't show you
how high the peak current gets, which is probably what is blowing your fuse.
You could change to a slow-blow type of fuse. You could also change to a
circuit breaker; they normally trip much slower than a fuse, too (and would be
easy to reset).
> It was suggested that I run the pump continuously at a lower
> speed. Would I use a resistor and if so what type and rating?
A resistor will work, but is not a very effective solution. The resistor gets
hot and wastes energy, and the pump won't work nearly as well at reduced speed.
A better method is to add the resistor only when starting the pump. There are a
number of ways to do this. The easiest is to use a special resistor called an
"inrush limiter". These have high resistance when cold (and so limit the peak
starting current of the motor), and then as they heat up, their resistance
falls to a negligible value (so they don't affect motor performance). The
challenge here will be to find one of an appropriate size to match your pump --
these devices are usually built for less than 10 amps of running current.
Another alternative is to use a fixed resistor and a relay to short it out once
the motor is up to speed. This will be simpler to build yourself and get
working "right the first time". For example, a 1 ohm resistor will limit the
peak current to 12 amps. An automotive relay with a 12v coil can be wired
across the motor, with its normally-open contacts wired to short out the
resistor. When you first apply power, the resistor limits the current to 12
amps peak. As the motor starts and speeds up, its voltage rises and the voltage
drop across the resistor falls. When the motor voltage (and relay coil voltage)
reaches about 6 volts, the relay pulls in and shorts the resistor. Now the
motor has full running voltage, and the resistor no longer gets hot or wastes
power.
--
"Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the one who is
doing it." -- Chinese proverb
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Phil Marino wrote:
From: Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Do batt "interconnect" cables see same current as
"motor" cables?
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 14:39:21 -0700
Sounds like you're essentially asking "is motor current the same as
battery current?"
Answer being "Depends, but usually no: Motor current is generally
higher"
I may be wrong, but my impression from his post was that he wasn't
going to use a controller at all - just hook the batteries and the
motor all in series. If that's the plam, then all the cables will see
the same current.
That's where the "depends" comes into play. In that case, then: It's a
series circuit: all current is equal.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Good Job, Edwardo!!! Are you the ONLY EV in Chile?No EAA Chapters, yet, I
> guess.You could BE the EV movement there. Good Luck!!
there is no EV movement as in 'converting normal cars' and there is only 4
other converted EVs in the country, all in universities and all done with
research funds.
there is however an EV racing crowd that every year have a 'formula-e'
race. rules are strict: budget is US$2000 and they have to build everithing
except the motor. they are not allowed a commercially avaliable controller,
so most are contactor controlled.
--
Eduardo K. |
http://www.carfun.cl | I'm white and nerdy
http://ev.nn.cl | Weird Al
|
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey,
Is there any alternative to an expensive new setup. In other words, if I
just wanted to get something to work, and since its my first go at it,
didn't want to pile a ton of money into it, are there any motors or
parts that I can experiment with? Maybe a used system or parts
interchange? But something with still enough power to get down the road.
This would be for an early Datsun Z. How about an industrial ac motor?
Can I use a bunch of 12v batteries with low Ah's to get the higher
current, even if I loose a lot of range?
Thanks
Paul
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> John Wayland wrote:
> Who knows, maybe we'll see an 11.9
> @ 110 mph next time we hit the track!
I have no doubt you'll hit it real soon. Pending the outcome of repairs
when's the next time you'll be able to hit the track?
> John Wayland wrote:
> I'm pretty sure the new Strange differential is going to be fitted with
> a set of 3:70 gears.
Are you just getting the differential housing from Strange? Will you reuse the
same Detroit locker?
Dropping 60 lbs is a lot. No doubt that will help. Not to mention losing
the rotational mass of the brake drums aughtta help the hole shot.
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Be careful spending a lot of money on 18650s. They have limited calendar and
cycle life, compared to A123. The price is $3 - $4 in large quantities.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Hooper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 1:47 AM
Subject: Re: Has anyone played around with the A123 Systems batteries
Anyone know what sort of price these Sanyo or Panasonic 18650s are in EV
quantities (e.g a few thousand)?
And/or recommend any good suppliers for them?
On 27/03/2007, at 3:16 AM, Patrick Andrews wrote:
list,
I spoke with a sales rep from a123 and he was unable to give me a
price break on 10,000 cells. It is a better choice to go with a Sanyo or
Panasonic 18650 or prismatic cell. Much more cost effective and would
provide same capacity. the drawback is the 15A max draw per cell.
From: "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Has anyone played around with the A123 Systems batteries
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 17:07:08 +0000
I can see you have a custom bike so you would not want to use a
standard Yellow Dewalt battery pack on this bike, but in general won't
leaving the pack in it's original configuration work? Then you could
also use the Dewalt charger, and you could still use the batteries on
your drill. Is there something about the way the pack comes from
Dewalt that limits it from being used in scooter/ ebike type
applications as is? It should be easy enough to construct a connector
like the one on the end of the drill to snap the battery into.
damon
From: Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Has anyone played around with the A123 Systems batteries
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 20:24:50 -0500
I've been using the DeWalt pack for a 36-volt Carbon Fiber bike I
recently built.
http://www.scootercommuter.com/photos/kestrel_gf_side_640.jpg
But I found two things that may be of help to charge the A123 M1s.
In my quest to find a charger I found a kit with detailed
instructions including lots of pics on how to safely disassemble the
DeWalt pack and wire in a harness to charge the batteries with a NiCd
Charger. NiCd chargers work well since they start out at a Constant
Current rate which is what the Lithiums prefer.
Here is the link . . .
http://www.tppacks.com/documents/10-Cell%20a123%20M1%20Battery%
20Construction%20Kit%20Instructions.pdf
If this link doesn't work Google "10-Cell A123 M1 Battery Pack
Construction Kit Instructions"
Now here is some more good news.
I also found a charger, called the Xtrema, that will charge a 10- pack
of A123 M1 from the DeWalt pack. The charger is made specifically for
the M1s and will allow you to select the cell count first so you can
select anywhere from 1 to 10 cells with this charger. Input voltage
is 12-volts. These chargers were designed for the R/C crowd which
uses their car's 12-volt batteries to power their chargers on-site.
http://www.thextrema.com/
I don' mind the inconvenience of charging from a car battery if it
works to charge these cells.
But check out the link. This is probably the best way to go. And at
$189.00 it's not a bad price. You can download the manual first to
see what's involved. There is also USB and RS-232 ports and cables
available so you can monitor the charge on your pc.
I plan to order one and try it out with the 20 cells I have here.
Charge 10 at a time. Ultimately I'd like to have two of these
chargers since the goal was to run my twin 10-cell packs in parallel.
Hopefully this will help.
As far as cells. Jay at GoWheels rigged up a 10-pack for me and since
this set is brand new I'm hoping the Extrema charger will do the
trick.
I also think Jay's guy are also in the process of putting a 30-
something volt system together.
Chip Gribben
ScooterWerks
http://www.scooterwerks.com
NEDRA
http://www.nedra.com
On Mar 25, 2007, at 6:15 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
From: "Mick Abraham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: March 25, 2007 11:49:33 AM EST
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Has anyone played around with the A123 Systems
batteries?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
'I noticed the other day that you can buy a "developer's kit" from
A123 Systems:
http://www.a123systems.com/html/products/buyKit.html
I realize they are a bit pricey ($129 for a 6 cell kit)..."
Mick says: I echo Kert Kaido's suggestion to observe what the radio
controlled hobbyists have been doing with these small cells. Much as
with
the EV crowd, these people expect a lot from their batteries. I
learn a lot
from both camps.
Some of the radio guys have been buying the DeWalt lithium ion
cordless
battery packs then cutting them open just to get the 10 A123 cells
inside.
This might be cheaper per cell than the $129 developer kit, but
you'd have
to butcher up a nice pre-assembled package. Instructions on how to
do that
are even posted with pictures.
Mick Abraham
www.abrahamsolar.com
_________________________________________________________________
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The average US Credit Score is 675. The cost to see yours: $0 by
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sc=660600&bcd=EMAILFOOTERAVERAGE
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A used forklift motor perhaps
----- Original Message -----
From: "childreypa" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 12:46 PM
Subject: Cheap EV Alternatives
Hey,
Is there any alternative to an expensive new setup. In other words, if I
just wanted to get something to work, and since its my first go at it,
didn't want to pile a ton of money into it, are there any motors or
parts that I can experiment with? Maybe a used system or parts
interchange? But something with still enough power to get down the road.
This would be for an early Datsun Z. How about an industrial ac motor?
Can I use a bunch of 12v batteries with low Ah's to get the higher
current, even if I loose a lot of range?
Thanks
Paul
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill's batteries are targeted as starting batteries for racers...
According to the info that Bill gave us there is a more suitable one on the
way for EVs. My guess would be that the BMS included with these is not
ready to play in an EV sized pack. Also there is no pricing information
other than a statement that they will be much more expensive than lead
acid...
I think most of us realize that unless we are working with ebikes and
scooters the cost of any lithium solution is more than our budgets allow.
Still, it is very encouraging to see them getting closer.
damon
From: Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List RCVR <[email protected]>
Subject: Li-Ion This and Li-Ion THAT
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 08:56:31 -0700
Geezzz,, I thought that with all the Band Width on Li-Ion
that Bill Dube's anouncement that they were going to actually offer FOR
SALE a little Cube-Like 12V Battery, made up of A123 cells, would have
set the EVDL ON FIRE.....
Bill Quotes...
" Well, we finally built a half-way-decent-looking prototype.
http://www.killacycle.dreamhosters.com/photos/index.php?album=12-volt-racing-battery
So a few paralell strings of these puppies would work.
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
_________________________________________________________________
i'm making a difference. Make every IM count for the cause of your choice.
Join Now.
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0080000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=hmtagline
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eduardo Kaftanski" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 11:36 AM
Subject: Re: [EV] Re: EV Funding.
> > Good Job, Edwardo!!! Are you the ONLY EV in Chile?No EAA Chapters, yet,
I
> > guess.You could BE the EV movement there. Good Luck!!
>
> there is no EV movement as in 'converting normal cars' and there is only 4
> other converted EVs in the country, all in universities and all done with
> research funds.
>
> there is however an EV racing crowd that every year have a 'formula-e'
> race. rules are strict: budget is US$2000 and they have to build
everithing
> except the motor. they are not allowed a commercially avaliable
controller,
> so most are contactor controlled.
> Hi Edwardo;
Wow! That's a novel approach, a tough budget. Batteries must eat up
THAT 2k budget pretty quick? Contacter controllers work fine, have been for
over 100 years. I started with a 3 speed Parsallel-Series parallel-and full
series setup in a 65 Corvair about 35 years ago. That controller survived to
go in my Rabbit 7 years ago and gave good service til I went with a Rapter.
I liked it so much I called it A Rapture!Smooth, good power, but for God's
sake don't get it WET! It wasn't made for places with weather, snow, rain,
100 degree humidy!
What do ya pay for a gallon of gas in Chile? THAT makes a big difference,
too. If gas were 23 sence a gal in USA there wouldn't be much interest in
Electrics.
Would be fun to go to the Electric Races in Chile!Would be a fun NEDRA
EVent in our winters?
Seeya
Bob
>
> --
> Eduardo K. |
> http://www.carfun.cl | I'm white and nerdy
> http://ev.nn.cl | Weird Al
> |
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.413 / Virus Database: 268.18.18/733 - Release Date: 3/25/07
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm a little late commenting on this thread. Was the 1980 model as
prone to explosion as the mid-70's models? Am I the only one who thinks
it's hilarious to make a Pinto safer by converting it?
Mike Willmon wrote:
Found a 1980 Pinto in town with a perfect body and blown engine for $100. Curb
weight 2556# minus the typical stuff of 712# equals
an 1844# glider. Its probably got the 6-3/4" rear end so I could probably easily
swap it for an 8". If I look at pictures right
there should be lots of battery room under the back seat and in place of that
explosive gas tank behind the axle. Anyone got any
comments on the Pinto as a conversion? Do they handle OK, is the steering
dependable (aren't they rack & pinion)? I never drove
one. Any chance of fitting dual motors under the hood with direct drive to the
rear-end?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For sure but at 20$/cell (little margin for paying business fees) there is
not a lot of people to pay such...
Calendar life is a problem with 18650 but at 300$/Kw, now i accept 5 years
life until 1/2C :^)
Cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait du volant, quel carburant choisiriez-vous
?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven Lough" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List RCVR" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 5:56 PM
Subject: Li-Ion This and Li-Ion THAT
Geezzz,, I thought that with all the Band Width on Li-Ion
that Bill Dube's anouncement that they were going to actually offer FOR
SALE a little Cube-Like 12V Battery, made up of A123 cells, would have
set the EVDL ON FIRE.....
Bill Quotes...
" Well, we finally built a half-way-decent-looking prototype.
http://www.killacycle.dreamhosters.com/photos/index.php?album=12-volt-racing-battery
So a few paralell strings of these puppies would work.
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
