EV Digest 6601
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: More EV Media Coverage
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: gensets was charging while driving question
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: More EV Media Coverage
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: EV Funding.
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: ***DHSPAM*** Re: We Blow Things Up, So You Don't Have To...2007
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Has anyone played around with the A123 Systems batteries
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Hybrid question
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Hybrid question
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) ford think 72v battery charger
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) vacuum pump question
by Iron Mountain Films <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Do batt "interconnect" cables see same current as "motor" cab
les?
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Mike's Pinto Project
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Making PV panels
by Frank John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Converting a mini classic
by Justin Southam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Making PV panels
by "Mick Abraham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Converting a mini classic
by Tom Parker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Converting a mini classic
by Tom Parker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Motor on ebay & Rebuilder
by "Installerjack" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: vacuum pump question
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Converting a mini classic
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: Making PV panels
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to Mike and All,
Mike Harvey wrote:
Thought I'd share a short 2 1/2 minute video on my conversion that aired on the local
NBC station this past Friday. Very positive, and they even got <most> of the
facts right! Overall, goodness...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfmBoCK55As
Congrats on the great TV interview! Keep up the good work.
Nice plug for electric drag racing, too.
See Ya......John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Randii,
I don't think many here will see the Volt as bad.
Personally I think it is the best I could hope for from
the US car makers.
The "bad" is that their credibility is so low that
hardly anybody believes that they are actually working on
it to make it a product, that is why they need to go to
such extreme length as to be transparent as never before,
just to convince people that this one is for real.
Funny, isn't it - how an image problem can stick.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Randy Burleson
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 4:10 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: gensets was charging while driving question
> Absolutely, we are just trying to point out that (insert technological
> challenge of choice here) isn't as easy as many people think. If it
> was easy to build (insert technological challenge of choice here),
> then someone would already be doing it.
Amazing that society progressed beyond horses and buggies with this mindset.
Interesting that this logic gets used against low emissions gen sets but its
converse gets used against GM's development of the Volt.
This is the most oddly pessimistic group of intelligent people I've ever
known, placing intense scientific scrutiny on one side of an issue but
dreaming of utopic electric power on the other, with seemingly little
correlation between. Let's see EVs good, Volt bad, PHEVs good, DIY hybrid
bad... it dizzies me.
Here's the truth as I see it:
* identify YOUR goals
* take what you can from discussions to match YOUR goals
* build to YOUR goals
* share YOUR results relative to YOUR goals At every point, there will be
someone willing to advise you based on THEIR goals, but keep the focus on
YOUR goals and you just may find a success for YOUR needs.
If you start to mass market a product, then a wider scope may be necessary,
but not if you are doing it yourself for YOU.
Randii
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Mike;
Good Job! Aint U Tube wonderful, you can spread the EV word
worldwide.Got it bookmarked to show off to EVerybody!
Seeya
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Harvey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 9:43 PM
Subject: More EV Media Coverage
> Thought I'd share a short 2 1/2 minute video on my conversion that aired
on the local NBC station this past Friday. Very positive, and they even got
<most> of the facts right! Overall, goodness...
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfmBoCK55As
>
>
> Mike Harvey
> Harvey Coachworks and EV
> (877) 841-9730
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.413 / Virus Database: 268.18.18/733 - Release Date: 3/25/07
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eduardo Kaftanski" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 7:31 PM
Subject: EV Funding.
>
> I just published this in my EVblog today... I think you may like it :)
>
>
> I am a Chilean inventor?
>
> I applied and was selected to a competition called .10 dynamic
enterprises. that searches for ten innovative but low risk proyect to fund
them. I entered the program with a proyect called .Enabling the electric car
in Chile. and to my surprise, I already passed the first cut. In two weeks
I.ll be attending for two weeks to some seminars at the end of which I need
to present a more refined proyect to a panel of judges. If I pass that
selection, I will have to make a quick .elevator pitch. to an angel investor
and try to get selected.
>
> The prize for the ten selected? A line of financing of around $6.000.000
(around US$11000) to build a business plan and a working prototype and apply
to the next funding step.
>
> Ouch.
> Good Job, Edwardo!!! Are you the ONLY EV in Chile?No EAA Chapters, yet, I
guess.You could BE the EV movement there. Good Luck!!
Bob
> link: http://ev.nn.cl/?p=42
>
>
> --
> Eduardo K. | Roses are #FF0000
> http://www.carfun.cl | Violets are #0000FF
> http://ev.nn.cl | All my base Are belong to you
> |
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.413 / Virus Database: 268.18.18/733 - Release Date: 3/25/07
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "MIKE WILLMON" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 3:31 PM
Subject: RE: ***DHSPAM*** Re: We Blow Things Up, So You Don't Have To...2007
> > Tim Humphrey worte:
> >
> > Oh one more thing... John, I think you should consider doing some
> > freelance writing for the car magazines.
>
> Hey, I like this !!
> "This is John Wayland reporting from Car & Driver....Stay Charged" he he
> You could build up by posting past commentary and then pick up with a
> regular column on the status of electric racing :-)
>
>
> > Tim Humphrey worte:
> >
> > Don't go anywhere John. I used to be here just for your posts too.
However,
> > lately I've found myself searching for Husted's as well.
>
> I too have been flagging both of these gentlemen's e-mails to pop up in
red in my Inbox. Although, I think Jim would be more at home writing for
something like a Prize Fighting Magazine. Now give it a little EV Racing
twist and you have now a second good EV Commentator. ("Hi I'm Jim", "and
I'm John from Car & Driver Test Reports", "and we both give this one a
thumbs up.....")
> This should get to PBS, the Motor Bros Arc an' Spark, no Click and Clack,
anymore. "Don't drive like my Bro" and all that stuff. John should have a
column in Car and Driver or Motor Trend, anyhow.
> I think the bright sunlight reflecting off the still falling snow is
starting to fry my brain :-O
> Ha Ha! Almost all our snow is gone! Raining tonite should flush the last
of it away!>
Bob, in Corrupticut
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The "drawback" of 15A per cell only comes to bear if you race it.
Since the cells are usually some 2.3Ah or thereabouts, the 15A
discharge limit means a discharge time in single-digit minutes.
In other words, most everyone will need to have at least 20 to 40
strings parallel to get the current draw they need AND to get
the capacity up to a decent range as well.
I don't think that 15A per cell is a big drawback for most everyone.
Price is.
Work to string 3,000+ cells together is too.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ian Hooper
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 10:48 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Has anyone played around with the A123 Systems batteries
Anyone know what sort of price these Sanyo or Panasonic 18650s are in EV
quantities (e.g a few thousand)?
And/or recommend any good suppliers for them?
On 27/03/2007, at 3:16 AM, Patrick Andrews wrote:
> list,
>
> I spoke with a sales rep from a123 and he was unable to give me a
> price break on 10,000 cells. It is a better choice to go with a Sanyo
> or Panasonic 18650 or prismatic cell. Much more cost effective and
> would provide same capacity. the drawback is the 15A max draw per
> cell.
>
>
>> From: "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Reply-To: [email protected]
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: RE: Has anyone played around with the A123 Systems batteries
>> Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 17:07:08 +0000
>>
>> I can see you have a custom bike so you would not want to use a
>> standard Yellow Dewalt battery pack on this bike, but in general
>> won't leaving the pack in it's original configuration work? Then you
>> could also use the Dewalt charger, and you could still use the
>> batteries on your drill. Is there something about the way the pack
>> comes from Dewalt that limits it from being used in scooter/ ebike
>> type applications as is? It should be easy enough to construct a
>> connector like the one on the end of the drill to snap the battery
>> into.
>>
>> damon
>>
>>
>>> From: Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> Reply-To: [email protected]
>>> To: [email protected]
>>> Subject: Has anyone played around with the A123 Systems batteries
>>> Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 20:24:50 -0500
>>>
>>> I've been using the DeWalt pack for a 36-volt Carbon Fiber bike I
>>> recently built.
>>>
>>> http://www.scootercommuter.com/photos/kestrel_gf_side_640.jpg
>>>
>>> But I found two things that may be of help to charge the A123 M1s.
>>>
>>> In my quest to find a charger I found a kit with detailed
>>> instructions including lots of pics on how to safely disassemble the
>>> DeWalt pack and wire in a harness to charge the batteries with a
>>> NiCd Charger. NiCd chargers work well since they start out at a
>>> Constant Current rate which is what the Lithiums prefer.
>>>
>>> Here is the link . . .
>>>
>>> http://www.tppacks.com/documents/10-Cell%20a123%20M1%20Battery%
>>> 20Construction%20Kit%20Instructions.pdf
>>>
>>> If this link doesn't work Google "10-Cell A123 M1 Battery Pack
>>> Construction Kit Instructions"
>>>
>>> Now here is some more good news.
>>>
>>> I also found a charger, called the Xtrema, that will charge a 10-
>>> pack of A123 M1 from the DeWalt pack. The charger is made
>>> specifically for the M1s and will allow you to select the cell
>>> count first so you can select anywhere from 1 to 10 cells with this
>>> charger. Input voltage is 12-volts. These chargers were designed
>>> for the R/C crowd which uses their car's 12-volt batteries to power
>>> their chargers on-site.
>>>
>>> http://www.thextrema.com/
>>>
>>> I don' mind the inconvenience of charging from a car battery if it
>>> works to charge these cells.
>>>
>>> But check out the link. This is probably the best way to go. And at
>>> $189.00 it's not a bad price. You can download the manual first to
>>> see what's involved. There is also USB and RS-232 ports and cables
>>> available so you can monitor the charge on your pc.
>>>
>>> I plan to order one and try it out with the 20 cells I have here.
>>> Charge 10 at a time. Ultimately I'd like to have two of these
>>> chargers since the goal was to run my twin 10-cell packs in
>>> parallel.
>>>
>>> Hopefully this will help.
>>>
>>> As far as cells. Jay at GoWheels rigged up a 10-pack for me and
>>> since this set is brand new I'm hoping the Extrema charger will do
>>> the trick.
>>>
>>> I also think Jay's guy are also in the process of putting a 30-
>>> something volt system together.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Chip Gribben
>>> ScooterWerks
>>> http://www.scooterwerks.com
>>>
>>> NEDRA
>>> http://www.nedra.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mar 25, 2007, at 6:15 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
>>>
>>>> From: "Mick Abraham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>> Date: March 25, 2007 11:49:33 AM EST
>>>> To: <[email protected]>
>>>> Subject: RE: Has anyone played around with the A123 Systems
>>>> batteries?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
>>>> 'I noticed the other day that you can buy a "developer's kit" from
>>>> A123 Systems:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.a123systems.com/html/products/buyKit.html
>>>>
>>>> I realize they are a bit pricey ($129 for a 6 cell kit)..."
>>>>
>>>> Mick says: I echo Kert Kaido's suggestion to observe what the radio
>>>> controlled hobbyists have been doing with these small cells.
>>>> Much as with
>>>> the EV crowd, these people expect a lot from their batteries. I
>>>> learn a lot
>>>> from both camps.
>>>>
>>>> Some of the radio guys have been buying the DeWalt lithium ion
>>>> cordless
>>>> battery packs then cutting them open just to get the 10 A123 cells
>>>> inside.
>>>> This might be cheaper per cell than the $129 developer kit, but
>>>> you'd have
>>>> to butcher up a nice pre-assembled package. Instructions on how to
>>>> do that are even posted with pictures.
>>>>
>>>> Mick Abraham
>>>> www.abrahamsolar.com
>>>
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
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>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> The average US Credit Score is 675. The cost to see yours: $0 by
> Experian. http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?
> sc=660600&bcd=EMAILFOOTERAVERAGE
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Wooops,
It was Mike who mis-quoted the Prius take-off time.
The Prius styling qualification was James'
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Cor van de Water
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 10:27 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Hybrid question
James,
Your quoted Prius 0 to 60 time is the Classic (2001-2003) time.
The 2004 - 2007 Prius does 0-60 in 10 sec.
See:
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=43877
http://john1701a.com/prius/prius-specs.htm
BTW,
"puke on wheels"?
Apparently it is a matter of taste how you classify this car, as I (and many
others) absolutely love it's styling.
Now take the Navigator or any other coffin on wheels, that's a whole nother
story...
Hope you enjoy your Hybrid just as much as my wife enjoys ours (my vehicle
of choice is the EV)
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of James Allgood
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 8:45 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Hybrid question
I have a Civic and it was a tough descision, but here are the +/- of both of
them.
Prius
Hatchback is so useful.
Looks like puke on wheels.
Centralized instrument cluster takes getting used to.
Bluetooth integration.
It is more expensive and there was a waiting list.
If the battery pack goes out you are dead in the water.
Only has an automatic transmission.
It is a Toyota.
Civic
Looks like a real car
Instruments are where they are supposed to be.
No learning curve.
If the battery pack dies, it still drives.
Back seat does not fold down.
Smaller size (wheelbase) is better for parking downtown.
Manual transmission so you can have better contol over RPMs and economy.
Price was better.
It is a Honda.
Four years since I bought the Civic and no complaints. There was a rattle in
the A pillar but they fixed it. I only use it to drive up the hill to the
dog park and back, up to 24% grade for 5 miles, and I average 38 mpg. I
drove to Salt Lake City from San Francisco and averaged 55 mpg.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Harvey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 8:12 PM
Subject: Re: Hybrid question
>I haven't seen the Altima but my parents have two ICE Altimas and they
>are nicely built nice looking and roomier than the Prius or civic. But
>if you look at fuel economy, you are certainly paying for the added
>pickup. Best all-around for both performance and fuel economy looks
>like the Civic based
>on the numbers I could gather. Granted, the numbers came from various
>sources I could whip up quickly but cant be too far off to tell the story.
>Most of the numbers below are from Car and Driver...
>
> 2007 Nissan Altima Hybrid
> Curb weight: 3564 lb.
> Zero to 60 mph: 7.4 sec
> Zero to 100 mph: 20.7 sec
> Fuel Economy (city/hwy): 36/42 mpg.
>
> 2004-2007 Toyota Prius Hybrid
> Curb Weight 2932 lb.
> Zero to 60 mph: 12.7 sec.
> Zero to 100 mph: 39.6 sec.
> Fuel Economy (city/hwy): 60/51 mpg.
>
> 2007 Honda Civic Hybrid
> Curb Weight 2875 lbs.
> Zero to 60 mph: 7.99
> Zero to 100 mph: N/A (0-90 in 18.17 secs) Fuel Economy (city/hwy):
> 48/47 mpg.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 10:24 PM
> Subject: Re: Hybrid question
>
>
>>I know two Prius owners and both are very happy and routinely get over
>>50 mpg. If I recall the Pris is a little larger and gets better
>>mileage than
>>the civic.
>>
>>
>> via Treo
>> David Hrivnak
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>
>> From: "Tim Gamber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Subj: Hybrid question
>> Date: Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:04 pm
>> Size: 506 bytes
>> To: [email protected]
>>
>> Hi all one of my friends is planning on buying a hybrid and he seems
>> to be stuck between three choices.
>>
>> The nissan altima hybrid
>> The toyota prius
>> and the honda civic hybrid
>>
>> He just like anyone else wants a vehicle that has enough power to
>> keep up with traffic and gets good gas mileage and it must be a
comfortable ride.
>> I
>> was just wondering if anyone had any thoughts?
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> http://local.live.com/?mkt=en-ca/?v=2&cid=A6D6BDB4586E357F!399
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tim,
Keep up with traffic?
Any modern car can keep up with traffic.
I have a Classic Prius (the one with 'only' 12.8 sec 0-60)
and rarely put the pedal to the metal.
Someone who knows me well sat in the backseat (4 adults in the car)
when I turned onto the freeway, so he was expecting a s-l-o-w
acceleration to somewhere below speed limit and was positively
surprised when the Prius shot away and passed the limit
effortlessly in the carpool lane.
He is now re-considering his ideas of Hybrid vehicles and
the extra torque they give on take-off.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
----- Original Message ----
From: Tim Gamber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 7:02:49 PM
Subject: Hybrid question
Hi all one of my friends is planning on buying a hybrid and he seems to be
stuck between three choices.
The nissan altima hybrid
The toyota prius
and the honda civic hybrid
He just like anyone else wants a vehicle that has enough power to keep up
with traffic and gets good gas mileage and it must be a comfortable ride. I
was just wondering if anyone had any thoughts?
_________________________________________________________________
http://local.live.com/?mkt=en-ca/?v=2&cid=A6D6BDB4586E357F!399
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello
I recently purchased a ford think 72v battery charger.
It has 6 wires coming out. Anyone know which is which
wire?
Is it ok just to plug it in, and then look for
voltages across the lines?
____________________________________________________________________________________
8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time
with the Yahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.
http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#news
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On my civic EV, I have been popping the 10 amp fuse on
my zivan DC to DC converter. When it kicks on it
reads about an amp surge on ammeter (link 10) on the
high voltage 136 side.
The theory is that it is spiking when it goes on thus
blowing the fuse. It was suggested that I run the
pump continuously at a lower speed.
Would I use a resistor and if so what type and rating?
I am assuming the pump is running somewhere around 10
amps at 13 volts.
Could it be the vacuum switch or the pump itself. all
accesories full on don't pull more than about 5.2 amps
on the high side.
Thanks for any help with this
Mike Malmberg
92 honda civic EV
electric bike
and soon electric/human recumbent
____________________________________________________________________________________
Get your own web address.
Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Since you seem to say that the power will be barely enough to
move the vehicle, it is expected that the controller will be
"full on" all the time and the battery current will be
(almost) identical to motor current.
However, you can reduce throttle and not drive 'WOT' so the
controller switches the motor current, which will reduce the
battery current.
Also during start and shifting, the controller can regulate
the motor voltage to a lower level than battery voltage
which will make motor current higher than battery current.
So, if you have good and bad cables, then the best should
be used to connect controller to motor, the others to
hook up the batteries.
Preferably the worst of them is in view/touching range,
so you can verify if it is starting signs of trouble,
so you can back off the throttle.
Hope this helps,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Phil Marino
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 6:04 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Do batt "interconnect" cables see same current as "motor"
cables?
>From: Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: Do batt "interconnect" cables see same current as "motor"
>cables?
>Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 14:39:21 -0700
>
>Sounds like you're essentially asking "is motor current the same as
>battery current?"
>
>Answer being "Depends, but usually no: Motor current is generally higher"
I may be wrong, but my impression from his post was that he wasn't going to
use a controller at all - just hook the batteries and the motor all in
series. If that's the plam, then all the cables will see the same current.
Phil
>
>Darin - at - metrompg.com wrote:
>>Let's say someone was contemplating hooking up a temporary 36v string
>>of 6v floodies to move a car a short distance (a few blocks) over
>>mostly level ground at low speed, and didn't yet have a proper set of
>>battery & motor cables made up.
>>
>>Let's say he does however have in his junk pile enough mismatched
>>cables of various gauges and lengths to connect everything together.
>>
>>So the question is: do the cables in the middle of a string see less
>>juice than the ones on the ends (the motor cables)? IE, is there any
>>logic in putting the "less robust" cables in the middle of the string?
>>
>>Pardon the basic electrical theory questions... :)
>>
>>Darin
>>
>>
>
_________________________________________________________________
5.5%* 30 year fixed mortgage rate. Good credit refinance. Up to 5 free
quotes - *Terms
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Didn't see this last post go through the list. I think someone jammed my
e-mail limit on the server by sending me a 6MB file.
Wasn't you Mike, I had already cleared that one :-)
Anyway so this isn't a waste of bandwidth and still on subj: topic, I just got
done shaving the spring perches and shock mounts
off the 9" axle housing. Can anyone tell me if if $85 a pair to shorten and
respline a set of axles is a good deal. Sounds good
enough to me but if there is a cheaper place I'd sure entertain the info. (Its
gonna cost me more than that for shipping both
ways anyway.) No one in Anchorage will do it. Maybe someone that works for
Northwest Handling Systems has some contacts up this
way who will do axles??
The axle housing from the Bronco is 60.25" outside of housing flange to flange.
The Pinto's existing housing is 51.75". So I'll
be cutting 4.25" off each side and each axle. As with all the Ford rears I've
seen the center of the housing and pinion shaft are
offset. However the axles are exactly the same length. So I need to get
measurements from the stock rear on the Pinto to get the
drive shaft alignment right for the 9". With my luck it won't be as easy as
taking exactly 4.25" off each side. The 6.75" axle
housing thats under it right now just looks funny, and puny too. Kinda like
something that I'd expect to find under a Dautsun or
something :-O
Fortunately enough the axle shafts are not tapered in from the splines. That
means I can have it shortened by any amount. :-) In
fact 4" in from the end they actually get larger from 1.29" O.D. to 1.35" O.D.
and another 4" in they go up to 1.45"" O.D.
Hitting the 1.45" area would make them too short. But I wonder if anyone knows
what O.D. a shaft is for 35 spline count? If I
could have 35 splines cut onto the 1.35" portion I'd be in hog heaven :-)
So another question for the list. Since welded gears are not EVen allowed under
NHRA rules and spools are only allowed with
aftermarket housings, whats the strongest type of locking differential to get
for drag racing? Detroit, Auburn, ARB (are ARB Air
lockers EVen strong enough for racing?)?
Just some things I'll be pondering tonight in my sleep. Since my inbox got
jammed I don't know if Jim decided to spew all his
motor spec data on me. I figure however, if he was sending me to Rich for some
dummy load testing that he's speaking from
experience and has been there before ;-P
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Willmon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 7:00 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Mike's Pinto Project
Not so sure about that :-O How would you like you're babies sent off to be
used as a dummy load? Oh I forgot you send them to
Wayland anyway, so thats about the same thing ;-) I'm assuming they don't call
Rich the Madman for nuthin'.
I'd just be happy with the manufacturer numbers, if'n they had 'em.
Doh!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Jim Husted
> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 4:33 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Mike's Pinto Project
>
>
> Hey Mike
>
> Well I could see if Rudman would let me send up your
> bling'ed out motors for a little Madman playing.
> I bet he could pump 360 volts and stall it for ya if
> you'd like 8^o Second thought I could send them up
> before I go through them 8^P Hey Madman, Mike here
> wants data! you still got that loadtester and more
> volts than Zues?
>
> You "still" needing that data Mike?
> LMAO!
>
> Just a thought ;^)
>
> Cya
> Jim
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee I've made some panels using regular (rigid) cells. I had to use a pencil
eraser in the connection areas to remove some of the anti-glare stuff they put
on in order to solder. Rosin-core 40Tin/60Lead solder worked for me. I used
several strands from some AWG 16 or 18 wire (can't remember exactly but based
on how much current each would carry) to interconnect. These cells are brittle
and really transmit heat quickly. There is ribbon connecting stuff available
like the OEM's use (ebay?).
My application was a hybrid solar panel using reflectors to concentrate more
light on each cell, then taking that heat away via liquid cooling (to preheat
domestic hot water). Typical applications require cooling and I've always
wondered how the solar cars handle that situation. FWIW, I used RTV as an
electrically-insulating/heat-conducting medium but not sure how this would work
in a mobile application.
Richard Komp has a book ("Practical Photovoltaics") that I used as inspiration;
he's also built quite a few hybrid PV panels. He uses clear RTV to encapsulate
the cells but I used tempered glass.
----- Original Message ----
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 10:15:51 PM
Subject: Making PV panels
This is a bit off-topic, but some of you may have worked on solar raycers, so
I'll ask.
I bought some surplus PV cells, and would like to build a PV panel that
conforms to the car's body. What I envision is soldering flat metal strips to
the cells to interconnect them, laying them on a glass panel, and encapsulating
them with something that is clear, waterproof, and UV resistant. But I'm having
problems.
- The cells are amazingly difficult to solder to. What type of solder
and flux is needed?
- What do you use to encapsulate the cells?
- Are there any "tricks of the trade" that are needed to ensure that
they don't break or quickly turn into junk?
--
"Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the one who is
doing it." -- Chinese proverb
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377
____________________________________________________________________________________
Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Tom, check this guy out,
"http://www.trademe.co.nz/Members/Listings.aspx?member=137282";. I see from
the website you're looking at an AC motor. Many AC conversions successfully
use gel cell batteries and Ross has them in many sizes from 7 to 110Ahrs. I
haven't bought anything from him yet but plan to soon. The car you see in
his profile is electric. It was for sale, not sure if it sold, i asked but
Ross didn't think it would be up to Wellington hills so i'm still looking.
All the best with the mini conversion.
Cheers,
Justin
Newlands,
Wellington
>
>Finding batteries in New Zealand that don't cost an arm and a leg is my
>current problem. I'm tempted by lithium, as fitting enough lead
>batteries into the car will be difficult.
>
>
>
>--
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.17/732 - Release Date: 24-03-07
16:36
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart asked about "build(ing) a PV panel that conforms to the car's
body." He wondered about soldering and encapsulation issues. Others have
offered good info on the soldering issues, but here's some encapsulant info.
Mick says: Commercial glass PV modules typically use an encapsulant called
"EVA". I think that stands for ethylene vinyl acetate or something similar.
This resembles the plastic component of a laminated glass car windshield,
but I doubt if it can be acquired in a 10 ounce tube to fit a caulking gun.
Life being what it is, doing EVA right probably requires costly
infrastructure.
The "lite" PV modules with no glass begin with an opaque substrate for the
back of the module. The soldered up cell assembly lays on that with the
cells looking up, then clear goop is applied over that to pot the assembly
and provide the front surface. This construction method is usually more
prone to degradation over time compared to a glass faced module, but it's
also lighter in weight and may be easier to build at home.
The potting material for the "lite" method is urethane based, and is similar
to the clear plastic used for the Ford "blue oval" vehicle badge and other
car emblems. Emphasis on "similar" because I think a slightly different
formulation is used for compatibility with the solar cell assembly. I'm not
sure where one would acquire that material or how it is applied.
I have a client in PA who has some Solarex brand "lite" PV modules he would
like to sell. These are 30 watt rated each with a voltage @ peak power
around 17 volts. They measure about 24" X 20" each and have flying wire
leads hanging from each unit. Solarex brand is no more since the BP merger,
and these modules are discontinued. However they are still a top brand with
quality fabrication and a great reputation.
This type module would make a nice trickle charger for an on-board 12v
battery (remember to add overcurrent protection & a charge regulator). My
client has 6 to sell, and I think they are never installed although now
several years old. I've advised the client to try to get about $4/watt for
them and he's preparing to put them up on Ebay.
Interested EVDL members who wish to speak with my PA client before these
units go up on auction may contact me off list. As Mr. Hart is discovering,
there's a lot involved in going from raw PV cells to a complete PV module,
especially when one factors in the need for reliability in the tough outdoor
environment. Complete modules from top fabricators are often similar $/watt
to the prices for raw cells, strange as that may seem.
Most commercial modules are rigid, including the Solarex Lite modules that
my PA client has to sell. To get an assembly that conforms to a car body one
may in fact have to "roll your own". Some commercial PV modules will curve
and are sometimes seen in marine applications. These flexible units are made
with a totally different PV process--no rigid cells--and they are physically
about half as efficient in terms of watts per square foot, compared to the
crystalline cells that Mr. Hart is experimenting with.
Mick Abraham
www.abrahamsolar.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Mon, 2007-03-26 at 07:19 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> HI-
> Sometime over the winter there was a post about an electric race car being
> built in the UK. there was a link to an article in "Racecar Engineering":
> magazine. The drive system was twin motors set parallel with drive ends
> opposite each other. A housing on each end held the motors in place.
> Stub shafts similar to the ones I used on "Gone Postal" were located
> on each end mid way between the motors. These shafts were not
> mechanically connected to each other, but to opposite motors.
> With reduction drive between motors and stub shafts along with
> series/parallel switching, this unit replaces the motor and transaxle.
I was unable to find the link you're talking about, but I think I
understand. If you think only about 1 motor, you place it's drive end to
the far right, use a pully to drive a shaft next to it, transfering
power back to the left, to another pulley to a shaft supporting the
inner CV joint? The other motor fits into the mirror image gap but with
a longer belt somewhere?
= motor
- shaft
+ inner CV joint
| belt or chain
=======|
|======= |
|---- ----|
+ +
I've left out the connection between the shafts and the CV joints.
Such a contraption might fit, especially if it was at a shart angle, so
the front motor was quite high up. The front to back room is also quite
limited.
I really want regenerative braking, so I haven't considered clever
packing of two DC motors. It would be interesting to see some pictures
of how gone postal actually works, the pictures at suckamps.com show
some parts but don't give an idea about how it all fits together.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, 2007-03-27 at 21:18 +1200, Justin Southam wrote:
> Hi Tom, check this guy out,
> "http://www.trademe.co.nz/Members/Listings.aspx?member=137282";. I see from
> the website you're looking at an AC motor. Many AC conversions successfully
> use gel cell batteries and Ross has them in many sizes from 7 to 110Ahrs. I
> haven't bought anything from him yet but plan to soon. The car you see in
> his profile is electric. It was for sale, not sure if it sold, i asked but
> Ross didn't think it would be up to Wellington hills so i'm still looking.
> All the best with the mini conversion.
I have seen this car, but I've never met Ross. His batteries look
promising. Has anyone had any experiance with Sunnyway batteries?
This one looks to be fairly close to my weight and capacity requirements
http://www.sunnyway-battery.com/Pro_Img/20061314544897857.pdf
I'll get in touch with Ross and see what he thinks.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
320096741305 (ebay item number)
In my search for a motor for a 66 Jawa motorcycle that I am converting, I
stumbled upon a 13" Hyster dual shaft motor.
A man and his son has a rebuild shop and has motors everywhere. I did find
a nice one for my Jawa.
They are in VA. and might be a good place for some of you east coasters.
Elmer has been in the rebuild business for many years and I am just doing
the listing for him.
Elmer says this Hyster motor is comparable to the Drexel Motor I am using in
the Chevelle.
The Drexel Motor in the Chevelle consistently pulls 2000 amps (Motor and
Battery) when launching for the 1/8 mile runs.
I have never felt this motor warm as of yet.
The Drexel in my Chevelle has dual fields and this Hyster has single fields.
Elmer also has enough parts to build several Drexel's, but one is reserved
for the Chevelle. :)
So check out this motor and let Elmer and son Richard see what they might
be able to help you with.
Jack
www.poormansev.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Iron Mountain Films wrote:
Could it be the vacuum switch or the pump itself. all
accesories full on don't pull more than about 5.2 amps
on the high side.
5 amps at 136V is 680 watts of load (more than 50amps at 12v). Thats a
lot for a DC/DC, most of which are rated around 300watts. If your 12v
battery is not capable of making up the additional 380 watts and the
Zivan tries to go beyond its ratings the fuse may blow. (Most DC/DC's
are protected against this, maybe the Zivan is different)
We also saw issues with two Zilla's and and two DCP/Alltrax DC/DC. The
DC/DCs kept blowing input fuses, then eventually self destructed. The
same problem did not occur with a Raptor controller. Some odd
interaction between the two.
Mark Farver
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I would suggest you check into using an IRS differential instead of the
transmission, place the motor either directly to the diff input and
point it up (hey if it sticks up a bit out of the hood consider this the
equivalent of an ICE hood scoop :) or if there is room to place it
lengthwise do that with it on top and a chain/belt drive to the diff input.
Jack
Tom Parker wrote:
On Mon, 2007-03-26 at 07:19 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
HI-
Sometime over the winter there was a post about an electric race car being
built in the UK. there was a link to an article in "Racecar Engineering":
magazine. The drive system was twin motors set parallel with drive ends
opposite each other. A housing on each end held the motors in place.
Stub shafts similar to the ones I used on "Gone Postal" were located
on each end mid way between the motors. These shafts were not
mechanically connected to each other, but to opposite motors.
With reduction drive between motors and stub shafts along with
series/parallel switching, this unit replaces the motor and transaxle.
I was unable to find the link you're talking about, but I think I
understand. If you think only about 1 motor, you place it's drive end to
the far right, use a pully to drive a shaft next to it, transfering
power back to the left, to another pulley to a shaft supporting the
inner CV joint? The other motor fits into the mirror image gap but with
a longer belt somewhere?
= motor
- shaft
+ inner CV joint
| belt or chain
=======|
|======= |
|---- ----|
+ +
I've left out the connection between the shafts and the CV joints.
Such a contraption might fit, especially if it was at a shart angle, so
the front motor was quite high up. The front to back room is also quite
limited.
I really want regenerative braking, so I haven't considered clever
packing of two DC motors. It would be interesting to see some pictures
of how gone postal actually works, the pictures at suckamps.com show
some parts but don't give an idea about how it all fits together.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
you may wnt to investigate www.solaraenergy.com. They are building flexible
solar panels that can bend and be walked upon. If I ever convert my Avalanche
to a hybrid then I would love a few of these on my back cover.
via Treo
David Hrivnak
-----Original Message-----
From: "Mick Abraham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subj: RE: Making PV panels
Date: Tue Mar 27, 2007 6:49 am
Size: 3K
To: <[email protected]>
Lee Hart asked about "build(ing) a PV panel that conforms to the car's
body." He wondered about soldering and encapsulation issues. Others have
offered good info on the soldering issues, but here's some encapsulant info.
Mick says: Commercial glass PV modules typically use an encapsulant called
"EVA". I think that stands for ethylene vinyl acetate or something similar.
This resembles the plastic component of a laminated glass car windshield,
but I doubt if it can be acquired in a 10 ounce tube to fit a caulking gun.
Life being what it is, doing EVA right probably requires costly
infrastructure.
The "lite" PV modules with no glass begin with an opaque substrate for the
back of the module. The soldered up cell assembly lays on that with the
cells looking up, then clear goop is applied over that to pot the assembly
and provide the front surface. This construction method is usually more
prone to degradation over time compared to a glass faced module, but it's
also lighter in weight and may be easier to build at home.
The potting material for the "lite" method is urethane based, and is similar
to the clear plastic used for the Ford "blue oval" vehicle badge and other
car emblems. Emphasis on "similar" because I think a slightly different
formulation is used for compatibility with the solar cell assembly. I'm not
sure where one would acquire that material or how it is applied.
I have a client in PA who has some Solarex brand "lite" PV modules he would
like to sell. These are 30 watt rated each with a voltage @ peak power
around 17 volts. They measure about 24" X 20" each and have flying wire
leads hanging from each unit. Solarex brand is no more since the BP merger,
and these modules are discontinued. However they are still a top brand with
quality fabrication and a great reputation.
This type module would make a nice trickle charger for an on-board 12v
battery (remember to add overcurrent protection & a charge regulator). My
client has 6 to sell, and I think they are never installed although now
several years old. I've advised the client to try to get about $4/watt for
them and he's preparing to put them up on Ebay.
Interested EVDL members who wish to speak with my PA client before these
units go up on auction may contact me off list. As Mr. Hart is discovering,
there's a lot involved in going from raw PV cells to a complete PV module,
especially when one factors in the need for reliability in the tough outdoor
environment. Complete modules from top fabricators are often similar $/watt
to the prices for raw cells, strange as that may seem.
Most commercial modules are rigid, including the Solarex Lite modules that
my PA client has to sell. To get an assembly that conforms to a car body one
may in fact have to "roll your own". Some commercial PV modules will curve
and are sometimes seen in marine applications. These flexible units are made
with a totally different PV process--no rigid cells--and they are physically
about half as efficient in terms of watts per square foot, compared to the
crystalline cells that Mr. Hart is experimenting with.
Mick Abraham
www.abrahamsolar.com
--- End Message ---
