EV Digest 6616
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: May C&D Article on White Zombi
by "Andrew Kane" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Quick PFC20 question
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Motor recommendations
by Ian Hooper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Fwd: Anyone want to climb Mt. Washington?
by Frank John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: The winds of change seem about the same
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
6) Re: Arc Flash & Ark Blast Warning !!!!!
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Killacycle friday race update
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) EEStor Super Caps (& ZENN) in local Austin press
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
9) to climb Mt. Washington .. limits of EV
by "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Making way too much out of welding small cells together
by Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: EV converter in North Carolina
by Peter Eckhoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Killacycle friday race update
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Flippin' Good Fun... A cationary tale
by nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: May C&D Article on White Zombie
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Motor recommendations
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Arc Flash & Ark Blast Warning !!!!!
by "George Swartz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: May C&D Article on White Zombie
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Flippin' Good Fun... A cationary tale
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Killing my batteries! HELP!
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
20) Re: Flippin' Good Fun... A cationary tale
by nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Drag Times & Car and Driver
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Flippin' Good Fun... A cationary tale
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Motor recommendations
by "james s" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Killing my batteries! HELP!
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Heck Jim, I live just outside Seattle and haven't found a copy yet 8`(
On 3/30/07, Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hey Paul
--- "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> You know, a closed mouth gather no feet! Please
> don't quit talking
> though, I'm always looking for a chance to feed you
> feet LMAO.
>
> More seriously, we need your wisdom too :-)
That's pretty funny 8^P I think from now on though
I'll be keeping to posting about motor pics as I'm
pretty sure I'm safe there 8^) I'm usually really
good at those finding Waldo books to <sigh>
No need to worry, I'm not going anywhere no matter how
big a fool I might make myself look sometime in the
future (I have done much better than this before)8^o
I'm surprised I didn't see more "how many motor guys
does it take to find Tim" jokes though, hehe
The funny thing is I've had it up on the computer the
whole time showing EVeryone I know!
I mean come on this is a pretty neat thing for me, not
every day I've had my name in something this big.
Then again it doesn't take much to get me excited!
Anyway still no copies in Redmond 8^( I guess it
serves me right for living in the boonies.
Hey John you get copies yet in Portland? Buy me fifty
copys and I'll square up with you on it, at least save
some for me 8^) Stores we'll be telling me sorry no
Redmond deliveries due to a Wayland delivery, hehehe.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
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On 3/31/07, Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I am being irrational just because I am arguing the other side of the
coin..... Most folks with GFCI and GFI devices on thier EVs.. are. Well
kinda strange to me. Most are wired in a way to make them useless. And most
folks ignore them if they get in the way. So what's the use????
There is nothing worse that standing around while somebody has to go reset a
GFI or figure out why the little charger won't play games....
That's a good point, and it's the dilemma you have with a non-isolated
charger in the typical conversion.
So to sum up, as you've said, people are tempted to leave the chassis
floating to prevent "nuisance trips", i.e. the inevitable small
leakage currents from the pack to the chassis while charging.
The problems with this:
You've got AC mains in a metal enclosure (the car) and it's not
grounded. So if the cable between the charger and the car's charge
port gets damaged, or the charge port fills up with water or anything
like that, the metalwork will go live. Unlikely perhaps, but far from
impossible, and it depends a lot on the installation.
Or more likely on the DC side - what happens when the leakage suddenly
gets to a dangerous level, without you noticing. For example, water
gets into the battery box, or splashed on to the HV wiring at the
contactor or controller (which is rarely waterproofed) while you're
driving. Or there's carbon dust build up in the motor. Or there's a
short to the case in your controller or DC-DC converter.
Now there's enough for a sizable shock if you're unlucky, or at least
a tingle, which is still bad news.
Perhaps the GFCI can protect you in either of the above cases
(although you might still get a "surprise" before it trips), but now
you're relying on a single protective device which might not be
fitted, might be broken, or might not work correctly with the
rectified fault current.
So yes, it takes a couple of things to go wrong before someone's life
is in danger, but both of them seem like pretty likely events from my
own experience, far more likely than any safety problems *caused* by
grounding it.
The point is not to trash my product but learn from my hands on experiece at
surviving.
Nobody is trashing your product. I think it's a good charger, but
you've got to be aware of the expenses of saving money - with a
non-isolated charger people have got a bigger design job and more
maintenance on their hands if they want a car that's safe enough to go
out in public *and* won't nuisance trip occasionally, OR accept that
the setup has a safety issue and gamble that nobody gets bitten.
Taking the risk without understanding it (i.e. not grounding the
chassis just because someone said not to) is a big mistake.
Iso will cost about %40, and I doubt that I can stuff 9600 watts from a 1/2
a cubic foot box with Iso. That would be a real challenge. Water cooled
is just about the only option, With spiffy heatsinks and such. Heck doing
that single stage is hard enough.
Like I said last year, I await that one with interest. I can show you
the design of the 3.6kW, water cooled isolated charger in my OEM EV,
if you want.
So.. are we going to let this thread die??? or are we going to gain
something from it?
I hope it's been illuminating to some :)
Evan
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Hi all,
I've been planning to use a Warp9 in my MX5/Miata conversion, but now
that the time to actually buy the motor approaches I thought I should
run this selection by the experts..
OK, so I'll be running a 160V nominal LFP lithium battery pack rated
at up to 900 amps short term, and am building a controller rated to
around 1000 (battery) amps continuous. Given the opportunity, would a
single Warp9 ever draw this much current? If not, anyone recommend
alternatives?
Thanks for any advice :)
-Ian
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi Dave,
I worry about the descent also. One method is to descend slowly. Taking twice
as long to descend as you normally would gives twice the time for brake
cooling. I agree that it's a difficult quandary and I'm trying to think about
some type of quick-and-dirty regen seup for my small motorcycle conversion.
I've wondered about using the plug-braking feature on the Curtis controller but
have not researched it.
The website says the road is 7.6 miles long (I estimated 8 miles last spring)
and the elevation difference is about 4500' (bottom to top). You can convert
ft-lb. to kwhr to estimate battery capacity required to overcome elevation
change. This method is loaded with assumptions, but it's better than nothing.
(?)
Just being around the bottom of the hill will be fun too.
Frank
----- Original Message ----
From: Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 1:40:00 PM
Subject: Fwd: Anyone want to climb Mt. Washington?
--- Frank John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I encourage everyone in the northeast to try to make it to this event. It's
> a great chance to
> generate some good EV publicity. For those who've never been, the Auto Road
> is 8 miles long and
> the elevation change is about 4500'. Very challenging (to say the least) and
> if you can't
> regenerate, you better have good brakes! The summit is above the tree line
> and offers
> outstanding views on clear days. It looks like there will be an exhibition
> and space for
> vendors. I'll keep the List updated as I learn
>
This sounds very interesting, and it's in my backyard (sorta.) I'm usually in
the White Mountains
at least once a year to go backpacking. And I've climbed Washington at least a
dozen times (and
driven up at least 3 times.)
But I'm a little concerned about driving an EV up that hill. I haven't
calculated how much battery
capacity I would need to drive the seven (?) or so miles to the top. And I
wouldn't think of doing
it without some additional motor cooling. But my concern is coming down. I have
a DC controller
with no regen. In a regular car, you always want to use a low gear to ease the
burden on the
brakes. I'll have practially new brakes on my car, but I still don't like going
down that hill
with just brakes. Does anyone have any secret method to use on a long downhill?
How about leaving the car in reverse and ever so lightly feathering the gas?
Just enough to resist
the motor spinning in the opposite direction of rotation? Or is that just a
good way to buy new
parts?
Maybe I'll attend, but leave it parked at the bottom.
Dave Cover
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I, too, have noticed that PR from many sources seems to be re-shaping public
opinion wrt hybrids. I'm not sure what the attitude adjustment is supposed to
accomplish, but there is definitely a change in the air.
I also want to thank Bruce for the work he does on this list. I appreciate how
much work goes into sifting through all the junk out there to keep us up to
date. But, Bruce, why do you type "POST" in all caps?
Thanks again
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 2:51 AM
Subject: RE: Arc Flash & Ark Blast Warning !!!!!
> While I won't deny the fact that you had a very scary experience
> and I hope you and your EV are unharmed, the problem you are
> describing occurs with electrical installations that are a wee
> bit heftier than our average EV's battery pack.
>
> We really need to create an all-out short circuit to make a
> current of 2,000 or maybe even 3,000 flow, the problems with
> the deadly arc-blast occur on lines that are over 480V and
> several tens of kA, as outlined in Ferraz-Shawmut papers at
>
http://www.ferrazshawmut.com/arcflash/getting_help/articles_whitepapers.cfm
>
> So, yes - batteries can kill and plasma's can certainly occur.
> Getting electrocuted and getting (hot) acid on you are certainly
> one of the less desirable side-effects of wrenching on EVs.
> But they usually are preventable.
> Use enough isolation and common sense when working around HV;
> use a mid-pack fuse to prevent plasma's, even though this is
> more to protect the batteries and equipment than to avoid
> arc blasts, because the ones we make are really babies....
> Hi EVerybody;
Yeah! Tell Wayland that!<g>!How do ya think he got the Plasma Boy"
name?Go review his Plasma EVent, I think it is in his website?Plasma EVents
have a chilling reality with the Master telling the story!!
You should see the carnage on the RR when there is a short circus event
in an E lokie or even a Diseasel one, electrical end.Like blowing up
batteri, it can be scary!
Seeya "It isn't dead til it's grounded" Cute sticker on our local line
trux!
Bob
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Well Jim,
I hope they save some for today (Sat). I'm off to
the Race Track to cheer them on and get a few pictures
while I am at it. And mostly to meet up with these
pioneers who are gracing the Valley of the Sun with
their presents. Had to take a day off to do it. And
while I am not into racing nor is my EV running yet I
recognized the efforts to achieve an EV and what they
do for the EV community at large. So Go Killacycle GO.
(;0)
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I don't think this has been picked up nationally yet and it was a long
thread the last time they had an announcement.
http://www.hillcountrynews.com/articles/2007/03/30/news/news14.txt.
Apparently, EEStor is making progress with ZENN.
Rob
RAVolt.com & EValbum 995
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> --- Frank John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > ... For those who've never been, the Auto Road is 8 miles long and
> > the elevation change is about 4500'. Very challenging (to say the
least)
i've been very impressed with the power needed for e-scooters .. 2 units
for 40 km ! Costs come down drastically for running
the prius has enough power stored in its batteries for a 600 ft vertical
climb
the elevation of 4500 ft cannot possibly be done without a hybrid or
re-charging along the way .. almost at the end of every mile ! .. since
an EV will be higher by 4500/8 = 562 ft every mile (simplyfying)
this brings up an important question .. if EV's are to be used in cities
which are 'flat' .. they could do with minimum power .. but in cities
built on undulating terrain, the performance would go down drastically !
then there is the problem of many flyovers even in cities on the plain
and level landscape ! .. each time i go over a flyover, the vertical
height brings the speed down sharply .. the vehicle is climbing !
if there is no regen when it is coming down the other side of the
fly over, the energy used in 'climbing' up the flyover is LOST !
..peekay
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--- Begin Message ---
Welding is the way to go, but it doesn't cost $20k. Used equipment can be had
right now for $2000 (old models) - $9000 (top of the line). I even found a
complete system (used) for only $1700. You can also lease equipment.
I can do 500 - 1000 welds (and thats after years of being out of the
industry) in an 8 hour shift, so it really isn't that big of a deal. It can be
done, its just a matter of cost of the cells that need to be welded.
For me, I am limiting my discharge current to 25 A / string, so I can still
somewhat reliably make 7 cell sticks with no welds / pure mechanical
compression joints. These are then wired into 84 cell modules ... I don't have
a welder anymore, so I am making do with what is available.
Steve
---------------------------------
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--- Begin Message ---
Hello David and Steve,
We have a number of chapters of the Electric Auto Association here in
North Carolina. One in RTP, Greensboro, and the Rocky Mount area.
There is also a converter shop in the Charolotte area, Michael and Paula
Moore, at Amp Mobile Conversions. Near the coast in the Wilmington area
is an Alternative Transportation company.
Peter Eckhoff, President
Triangle Electric Auto Association
cc James
David Brandt wrote:
Hey, Steve, I'm in between you two in Savannah, GA. If he wants to take a day
trip or weekend trip to see an EV, then you can send him this way...
I could also do a conversion for him if he wants.
David Brandt
----- Original Message ----
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 1:54:54 AM
Subject: EV converter in North Carolina
James E mailed me about getting a EV , or a conversion done on his car .. he is in N.C
Also sombody else e mailed me about advertixing there conversion servise on grassrootsev.com and I lost there mail before replying .
steve clunn
Hi Steve,
I'm James, from North Carolina. I'd like to have an electric but I'd
like to learn all there is to know from a consumer's standpoint before I
buy anything. If you post my email, put up the [EMAIL PROTECTED] address.
Thanks!
James
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--- Begin Message ---
Hey Bruce
You know I wasn't a race fan either when Wayland first
started showing me video of his races and his spider
to the fly web enticing. From the very first video I
knew I wanted to be part of this even if it meant
having my guts sucked out 8^o
I may not be a full fledged EV'er yet myself but I
also know how much effort goes into making an EV, let
alone making a fast one (or eff. one for that matter).
Just like those racing gas it takes intrest in it by
the public to help fuel its growth.
The way I see it is it take a lot of effort for people
to attend like you taking a day off to do it.
I say go Bruce go 8^) You know it's gonna take each
and EVery one of us to put forth effort to move this
big ass gas rock that's blocking our path!
Take me a pic and say hi to EVeryone there for me. I
guess I'm saying you're gonna be doing more than just
having fun today 8^) EVen old race dogs need to be
shown they are loved to!
I'll be waiting to hear your take on EVerything.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
--- Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Well Jim,
> I hope they save some for today (Sat). I'm off to
> the Race Track to cheer them on and get a few
> pictures
> while I am at it. And mostly to meet up with these
> pioneers who are gracing the Valley of the Sun with
> their presents. Had to take a day off to do it. And
> while I am not into racing nor is my EV running yet
> I
> recognized the efforts to achieve an EV and what
> they
> do for the EV community at large. So Go Killacycle
> GO.
> (;0)
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HI folks.
Well, a few days after the second Mini El in Bristol hit the streets
mine is now rather poorly.
We went out for a celebratory run this morning and I turned way to
tight on a mini roundabout at about 10mph and tipped my lil' three
wheeler up onto two.
The bottom half (the tub) is fine. There are a few scratches in the
paint-work but nothing a bit of elbow grease won't fix. The top half
(The hood) is made of very fragile polycarbonate stuff. It's cracked
to kingdom come so I'll be seeing if I can order a whole new top roof
for the thing.
The car still drives fine and I was glad I have sealed lead acids now
in the trunk (the replacement batteries arrived and weren't quite the
ones we expected and luckily were sealed rather than flooded). I'm
kind of glad because I really didn't want to add acid burns to my
left arm, which is covered in rather large bruises and scrapes after
the car landed on it.
I won't be doing THAT again in a hurry...
Nikki.
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Visit aminorjourney.com to see the transformation from Hebe to EV.
E-minor isn't just a key any more...
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Hello to Andrew and All,
Andrew Kane wrote:
Heck Jim, I live just outside Seattle and haven't found a copy yet 8`(
On 3/30/07, Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Anyway still no copies in Redmond
The C & D May editions finally arrived in Portland yesterday, Friday.
Finally, something new to read on the throne!
See Ya...John Wayland
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Hey Ian
Wayland runs a 9" and 1k controller 156 volts, fun car
to drive 8^) Hey John you ain't running a Raptor in
it still are you??
As far as motors go they're kind of like a good sled
dog, they'd rather die than be cut from the harness.
With that said don't load the sled like the grinch on
Christmas and then expect a poodle to pull it, no
matter how hard you whip it 8^P
Anyway John's let me drive Blue Meanie and I'd bet
it's as fast a car (off the line) as I've EVer driven
8^) (I mean it drives really smooth)(Hi Cheryl) 8^o
Unless you feel you'll be whipping this dog pretty
hard and often then you should be just fine with a 9"
You can always add a second dog to the team if you
feel you need more dog power later also 8^)
Hope this helps
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
Husky breeder 8^)
--- Ian Hooper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I've been planning to use a Warp9 in my MX5/Miata
> conversion, but now
> that the time to actually buy the motor approaches I
> thought I should
> run this selection by the experts..
>
> OK, so I'll be running a 160V nominal LFP lithium
> battery pack rated
> at up to 900 amps short term, and am building a
> controller rated to
> around 1000 (battery) amps continuous. Given the
> opportunity, would a
> single Warp9 ever draw this much current? If not,
> anyone recommend
> alternatives?
>
> Thanks for any advice :)
>
> -Ian
>
>
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I usually put a fuse in middle of the battery string such as a "FRN" type.
This can be sized to never blow except for catastrophic cases like the one
described. Flange type fuses can be drilled and mounted on home made base
without an expensive fuseholder, since they will only be infrequently if
ever changed.
On Sat, 31 Mar 2007 03:11:52 EDT, Theoldcars wrote
> I hope anyone who has a pack voltage over 120 volts or is thinking
> of adding batteries that will increase their existing voltage to
> exceed 120 volts is aware of an extreme danger of an arc flash
> explosion. It seems common knowledge about using gloves, face
> shields, and one hand behind your back.
>
> Yesterday I had my first and hope last flash arc experience. It was
> such an astounding event I Google to learn more about what happened.
> Words do not even come close to describing it. It was about as
> loud as a large m-60 firecracker, blinding bright, and a very very
> hot expanding explosion.
>
> If copper is in the arc the expansion rate is 40,000 to 1 when the
> arc vaporizes copper. With vaporized copper you have for an instant
> a path that is transferring an unbelievable amount of power into
> heat. Clothing that is made of a polyester blend is not something
> you want on.
>
> I cannot say how strongly I recommend you at least read what I
> found below searching Google on "Arc Flash". Although this is
> mostly about electricians I can assure you the danger from a pack
> of batteries is very real. You may not receive an electrical shock
> but you will be exposed to an unbelievable amount of heat.
>
> Don
>
> The cause of the short normally burns away during the initial flash
> and the arc fault is then sustained by the establishment of a
> highly-conductive plasma. The plasma will conduct as much energy as
> is available and is only limited by the impedance of the arc. This
> massive energy discharge burns the bus bars, vaporizing the copper
> and thus causing an explosive volumetric increase, the arc blast,
> conservatively estimated, as an expansion of 40,000 to 1. This
> fiery explosion devastates everything in its path, creating deadly
> shrapnel as it dissipates.
>
> Based on available statistics, it's expected that the explosive
> energy released during an arc blast will send more than 2,000 North
> American electrical workers to burn centers each year. The sad
> thing is that most of these workers will not have been properly
> warned of the magnitude of the hazard [UTF-8?]â if they're warned at
all.
> Although arc blast injuries are not as frequent as other electrical
> injuries, their severity makes the costs to human life and to
> industry as a whole much, much greater.
>
> Arc Flash is a short circuit that flashes from one exposed live
> conductor to another, or to ground. The resulting ionized air
> creates electrically conductive superheated plasma that can reach
> temperatures of 5000°F and above. The explosion takes less than
> one second and produces a brilliant flash, intense heat, and a
> pressure blast equivalent to several sticks of dynamite.
> Consider... an electrical arc may reach a temperature in excess of
> the surface of the sun. This causes vaporization of copper in the
> arc zone. Its expansion, combined with that of the superheated of
> surrounding air, creates a deadly plasma mixture that is
> explosively blasted from the fault zone, with heavy concussive
> forces imposed on nearby personnel.
>
> What is Arc Flash?
>
> Electrical workers are exposed to a number of hazards whenever they
> work live, including electrical shock. But arc flash is another
> hazard that can cause serious injury or death - even if an employee
> doesn't come into direct contact with an energized conductor.
>
> What is Arc Flash?
> Arc flash is a short circuit through air that flashes over from one
> exposed live conductor to another conductor or to ground. Arc flash
> incidents are common and costly, and the frequency of reported
> accidents is increasing. This is why arc flash has become a very
> hot topic within OSHA and the safety industry overall
>
> What Causes Arc Flash?
> Arc flashes can be caused in a variety of ways:
> Just coming close to a high-amp source with a conductive object can
> cause the electricity to flash over. Dropping a tool or otherwise
> creating a spark can ignite an arc flash. Equipment failure due to
> use of substandard parts, improper installation, or even normal
> wear and tear. Breaks or gaps in insulation. Dust, corrosion or
> other impurities on the surface of the conductor.
>
> How Common Is Arc Flash?
> In the past, if someone suffered burns in an electrical accident,
> people thought the burns were caused by the electrical shock
> passing through the body. Electrical shocks can cause burns. But
> what research has shown is that most burns from electrical accidents
> actually come from arc flash. The majority of hospital admissions
> due to electrical accidents are from arc flash burns, not from
> electrical shocks. (Taken from NFPA 70E-2004 standard) Of the
> approximately 350 persons killed in the work place by electricity
> last year, roughly 50% were related to arch flash. A report
> compiled by Capelli-Schellpfeffer, Inc., estimates that five to 10
> arc flash explosions happen in the USA every day, resulting in 1 to
> 2 deaths per day. That figure only in takes into account incidents
> where victims were sent to special burn centers. The number does
> not include cases sent to regular hospitals or clinics, nor
> unreported cases or near misses. What Kind of Injuries Can Arch
> Flash Cause? What is the impact of these accidents and what types
> of injuries can they cause? Injuries from arc flash accidents tend
> to be very severe, and result from two types of hazards: arc flash
> and arc blast.
>
> Arc Flash: Electric arcs produce intense heat, and can heat the air
> to temperatures as high as 35,000 degrees Fahrenheit. This is 4
> times the surface temperature of the sun. Fatal burns can occur
> when the victim is several feet from the arc. Serious burns are
> not uncommon even at a distance of 10 feet. Arc flash can cause
> the following injuries: Skin burns by direct heat exposure Metal is
> vaporized at this temperature. Droplets of molten metal can be
> propelled over great distances, causing serious burns or igniting
clothing.
> High-intensity flash can also cause damage to eyesight.
> Arc Blast: a high-energy arcing fault can produce a considerable
> pressure wave and sound blast. The intense heat from arc causes
> the sudden expansion of air, resulting in a blast.
>
> ************************************** See what's free at
http://www.aol.com.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The C & D May editions finally arrived in Portland
> yesterday, Friday.
> Finally, something new to read on the throne!
>
> See Ya...John Wayland
Bathroom "my ass" I'm framing mine! 8^)
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
____________________________________________________________________________________
Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection.
Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta.
http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/features_spam.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Nikki
Wow what a bummer to read and I'm sure much less fun
to do 8^(
But come on admit it, you've been checking out the
race stuff, probably out there practicing your
autocross moves now weren't you 8^P
BTW maybe you should keep from using arm turn
signaling while you're out there racing around 8^o
I guess I feel it's better to laugh than to cry.
I've followed your posts and pics and just wanted to
let you know people care. Keep up the good work you
little race fiend. Although maybe the 1/4 mile
straight thing might be more your taste? 8^o
Also it's funny how sometimes we might think that
something like getting the wrong batteries (or what
EVer) sucks! but then we see (later on) that someone
just might have had our backs covered on that 8^)
Wishing you well
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
--- nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> HI folks.
> Well, a few days after the second Mini El in Bristol
> hit the streets
> mine is now rather poorly.
>
> We went out for a celebratory run this morning and I
> turned way to
> tight on a mini roundabout at about 10mph and tipped
> my lil' three
> wheeler up onto two.<snip>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Don't pick lemons.
See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello All,
I have been driving my conversion now for about 6 months. It can be seen
here:
<_www.austinev.org/evalbum/887_ (http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/887) >
I drive about 6 miles one-way to work and back and around town. I charge at
home and at the office. No more than 15 miles between charges, and I always
have the car plugged in if it sits overnight. It has ten, 12 Volt SCS-225
Trojan
batteries that I bought new in September of 2006 for a total system voltage
of 120VDC. It has a properly programmed Zivan NG3 on-board charger. While
driving, I never surge below 10.5 volts per battery or 105 Pack Volts. I
usually try to stay under 300 Battery Amps Draw, unless I nearly get run over
in
traffic. The trouble is I have apparently Killed 3 batteries in the first
three
months...they just would not hold a charge any longer. The dealer replaced
them. Then, last night, I noticed one of the recently replaced batteries was
hot and had reversed a cell. Now that makes 4, $110 batteries in 6 months! At
this rate, I can't afford to drive this little car for very long. WHAT AM I
DOING WRONG HERE? Is there something I am missing? I thought I would at LEAST
get 2 years out of this pack. I have only put 1900 miles on these batteries
in 6 months. Any input is greatly appreciated. HELP!
David
Ratliffgrp AT AOL DOT COM
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Jim,
Yeah. I was joking a while ago that the City El was perfect for Do-
nuts... Damnit!
;)
I reckon the idiot behind the wheel didn't realise the batteries were
a bit lighter than the old ones and a so the banana had a little less
between her wheels to keep her wheels on the ground!
I want the 70mph model.. Just not there yet. Damn frustrating thing
is that I switched the tires out a few weeks ago for "official City
El" tires. I did have racing Maloyas on. They would have just skidded
before tipping. The Continentals I have on there grip better but
don't quite do what they ought in a sideways fashion (the sidewall
collapsed over the wheel, or rather, vice versa)
The new batteries do the trick but of course the hood is now in need
of replacement. I'm contemplating what sort of top to get. How many
cars do you know that can get changed from convertible to hard top
and back by replacing the ... door? ;)
Thanks for the sympathy etc. Were it tomorrow no-one would have
believed me!
Nikki.
_______________________________
Old car? New tricks?
Visit aminorjourney.com to see the transformation from Hebe to EV.
E-minor isn't just a key any more...
_______________________________
On Mar 31, 2007, at 4:53 PM, Jim Husted wrote:
Hey Nikki
Wow what a bummer to read and I'm sure much less fun
to do 8^(
But come on admit it, you've been checking out the
race stuff, probably out there practicing your
autocross moves now weren't you 8^P
BTW maybe you should keep from using arm turn
signaling while you're out there racing around 8^o
I guess I feel it's better to laugh than to cry.
I've followed your posts and pics and just wanted to
let you know people care. Keep up the good work you
little race fiend. Although maybe the 1/4 mile
straight thing might be more your taste? 8^o
Also it's funny how sometimes we might think that
something like getting the wrong batteries (or what
EVer) sucks! but then we see (later on) that someone
just might have had our backs covered on that 8^)
Wishing you well
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
--- nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
HI folks.
Well, a few days after the second Mini El in Bristol
hit the streets
mine is now rather poorly.
We went out for a celebratory run this morning and I
turned way to
tight on a mini roundabout at about 10mph and tipped
my lil' three
wheeler up onto two.<snip>
______________________________________________________________________
______________
Don't pick lemons.
See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have noticed that the White Zombie" is now getting congratulations on the
Drag Times site: www.dragtimes.com on the article in Car and Driver. Go to
the electric vehicle section. As I remember correctly it was John Wayland
who got us all interested in this site and because of this they put up a
special section just for electrics. One chink at a time!
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Nikki
Did I call you on that one or what 8^P
If I were you I'd opt for the roll cage top 8^o
Sorry but that's some funny stuff, you go girl 8^)
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
--- nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hey Jim,
>
> Yeah. I was joking a while ago that the City El was
> perfect for Do-
> nuts... Damnit!
>
> ;)
>
> I reckon the idiot behind the wheel didn't realise
> the batteries were
> a bit lighter than the old ones and a so the banana
> had a little less
> between her wheels to keep her wheels on the ground!
>
> I want the 70mph model.. Just not there yet. Damn
> frustrating thing
> is that I switched the tires out a few weeks ago for
> "official City
> El" tires. I did have racing Maloyas on. They would
> have just skidded
> before tipping. The Continentals I have on there
> grip better but
> don't quite do what they ought in a sideways fashion
> (the sidewall
> collapsed over the wheel, or rather, vice versa)
>
> The new batteries do the trick but of course the
> hood is now in need
> of replacement. I'm contemplating what sort of top
> to get. How many
> cars do you know that can get changed from
> convertible to hard top
> and back by replacing the ... door? ;)
>
> Thanks for the sympathy etc. Were it tomorrow no-one
> would have
> believed me!
>
> Nikki.
>
>
> _______________________________
> Old car? New tricks?
> Visit aminorjourney.com to see the transformation
> from Hebe to EV.
>
> E-minor isn't just a key any more...
> _______________________________
>
>
> On Mar 31, 2007, at 4:53 PM, Jim Husted wrote:
>
> > Hey Nikki
> >
> > Wow what a bummer to read and I'm sure much less
> fun
> > to do 8^(
> >
> > But come on admit it, you've been checking out the
> > race stuff, probably out there practicing your
> > autocross moves now weren't you 8^P
> >
> > BTW maybe you should keep from using arm turn
> > signaling while you're out there racing around 8^o
> >
> > I guess I feel it's better to laugh than to cry.
> > I've followed your posts and pics and just wanted
> to
> > let you know people care. Keep up the good work
> you
> > little race fiend. Although maybe the 1/4 mile
> > straight thing might be more your taste? 8^o
> >
> > Also it's funny how sometimes we might think that
> > something like getting the wrong batteries (or
> what
> > EVer) sucks! but then we see (later on) that
> someone
> > just might have had our backs covered on that 8^)
> >
> > Wishing you well
> > Jim Husted
> > Hi-Torque Electric
> >
> > --- nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >> HI folks.
> >> Well, a few days after the second Mini El in
> Bristol
> >> hit the streets
> >> mine is now rather poorly.
> >>
> >> We went out for a celebratory run this morning
> and I
> >> turned way to
> >> tight on a mini roundabout at about 10mph and
> tipped
> >> my lil' three
> >> wheeler up onto two.<snip>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
______________________________________________________________________
>
> > ______________
> > Don't pick lemons.
> > See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
> > http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html
> >
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast
with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut.
http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Ian,
For comparison you can look at http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/174
it's a Miata with an ADC 9" motor, you should be okay but as posted in
a past email (sorry not sure who) you won't want to feed a 9" motor
160 volts @ 1000 amps continuously, just long enough to get down the
1/4 mile.
The car and what you plan to put in will be a very nice ride so keep us posted.
James Sullivan
Toronto, Canada
--- Ian Hooper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I've been planning to use a Warp9 in my MX5/Miata
> conversion, but now
> that the time to actually buy the motor approaches I
> thought I should
> run this selection by the experts..
>
> OK, so I'll be running a 160V nominal LFP lithium
> battery pack rated
> at up to 900 amps short term, and am building a
> controller rated to
> around 1000 (battery) amps continuous. Given the
> opportunity, would a
> single Warp9 ever draw this much current? If not,
> anyone recommend
> alternatives?
>
> Thanks for any advice :)
>
> -Ian
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello David,
The problem is the type of battery you are using. I am using only one of
these Trojan SCS 225 12 volt marine batteries for my accessory battery in my
EV. I do not let it discharge below 50% DOD or it very quickly drop like a
rock. Normally kick on the alternator when its gets to about 25% DOD or
still have 75% State of Charge.
The SCS 225 has a reserved capacity of 25 amps for 225 minutes. It will
deliver 130 AH only at 6.5 amps for 20 hours. The normal average battery
amps for a EV is about 75 amps, so:
If 130 AH battery can deliver 6.5 amps for 20 hours (6.5 amperes x 20 hours
= 130) then as the discharge current increases, the actual battery capacity
decreases. It may only deliver 20 amps for 4 hours which is now a actual
capacity of 80 ampere-hours.
A battery with a reserve capacity of 225 minutes will be:
225 min / 60 = 3.75 hrs
Therefore....
3.75 hr x 25 amps = 93.75 amp-hrs.
As you increase the battery amperes the ampere-hour gets worst. My battery
ampere to drive my 7000 lb EV at 30 mph is 75 amps. So If I was to use the
SCS 225 batteries as my main pack, this reduces the reserve capacity by
about one-third, so I now have only have little more than 30 amp-hour
available if you discharge all the way down to 90% DOD!!!
Always try to stay above 50% DOD and best for very long life, try to stay at
25% DOD. If you do not have the range for you EV and cannot stay at 75
battery amps, then you need a larger ampere-hour battery with a larger
reserve capacity at 25 amps.
You many have to increase you overall gear ratio to keep you motor rpm up so
as to reduce your battery amperes.
Its best to run either the 6 volt T's batteries for long life and range. I
am now running 30 each 6 volt Trojan T-145's for over 5 years now. They are
530 min. reserve at 25 amps or 145 minutes at 75 amps. I normally take them
down to 25% DOD and only charge them about once a week to about 90% State of
Charge.
They can deliver 13 amps for 20 hours or 260 AH at 25 amps. At 75 amps
these now become:
145 mins / 60 = 2.41 hrs
Therefore.....
2.41 hr x 75 amps = 180.75 ampere-hours
In choosing a battery, it is best to rate the reserved capacity to 75 amps.
The SCS 225 marine battery is rated only at 25 amps at 225 minutes.
Your EV battery ampere of 300 amperes is too high for this battery. It is
best to reduce it to below 100 amperes.
Roland
Once in a while I may get to 45% DOD and charge the pack to 100% every 4 or
6 months.
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 9:57 AM
Subject: Killing my batteries! HELP!
> Hello All,
>
> I have been driving my conversion now for about 6 months. It can be seen
> here:
>
> <_www.austinev.org/evalbum/887_ (http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/887) >
>
> I drive about 6 miles one-way to work and back and around town. I charge
> at
> home and at the office. No more than 15 miles between charges, and I
> always
> have the car plugged in if it sits overnight. It has ten, 12 Volt SCS-225
> Trojan
> batteries that I bought new in September of 2006 for a total system
> voltage
> of 120VDC. It has a properly programmed Zivan NG3 on-board charger.
> While
> driving, I never surge below 10.5 volts per battery or 105 Pack Volts. I
> usually try to stay under 300 Battery Amps Draw, unless I nearly get run
> over in
> traffic. The trouble is I have apparently Killed 3 batteries in the first
> three
> months...they just would not hold a charge any longer. The dealer
> replaced
> them. Then, last night, I noticed one of the recently replaced batteries
> was
> hot and had reversed a cell. Now that makes 4, $110 batteries in 6
> months! At
> this rate, I can't afford to drive this little car for very long. WHAT AM
> I
> DOING WRONG HERE? Is there something I am missing? I thought I would at
> LEAST
> get 2 years out of this pack. I have only put 1900 miles on these
> batteries
> in 6 months. Any input is greatly appreciated. HELP!
>
> David
> Ratliffgrp AT AOL DOT COM
>
>
>
> ************************************** See what's free at
> http://www.aol.com.
>
>
--- End Message ---
