EV Digest 6617
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Motor recommendations
by "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Flippin' Good Fun... A cationary tale
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Killing my batteries! HELP!
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: to climb Mt. Washington .. limits of EV
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: The winds of change seem about the same
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Again: Generators and RVs
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Again: Generators and RVs
by DAVID BARWICK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Killing my batteries! HELP!
by robert mat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Fwd: Anyone want to climb Mt. Washington?
by Tom Gocze <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Cheap EV Alternatives
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Again: Generators and RVs
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Killing my batteries! HELP!
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Killacycle does 8.30 sec 153 MPH 1/4 mile first run out
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Any way to reduce the Zivan charging by limiting voltage to a certain
volts?
by robert mat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Fwd: Anyone want to climb Mt. Washington?
by lyle sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Killacycle does 8.30 sec 153 MPH 1/4 mile first run out
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Arc Flash & Ark Blast Warning !!!!!
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
18) Re: Flippin' Good Fun... A cationary tale
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Killacycle does 8.30 sec 153 MPH 1/4 mile first run out
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: May C&D Article on White Zombi
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Killing my batteries! HELP!
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Since a Miata is a small light car and your lithium pack is likely to
be light weight too, I wonder if an 8" wouldn't work just fine too?
On 3/31/07, james s <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Ian,
For comparison you can look at http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/174
it's a Miata with an ADC 9" motor, you should be okay but as posted in
a past email (sorry not sure who) you won't want to feed a 9" motor
160 volts @ 1000 amps continuously, just long enough to get down the
1/4 mile.
The car and what you plan to put in will be a very nice ride so keep us posted.
James Sullivan
Toronto, Canada
>
>
> --- Ian Hooper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I've been planning to use a Warp9 in my MX5/Miata
> > conversion, but now
> > that the time to actually buy the motor approaches I
> > thought I should
> > run this selection by the experts..
> >
> > OK, so I'll be running a 160V nominal LFP lithium
> > battery pack rated
> > at up to 900 amps short term, and am building a
> > controller rated to
> > around 1000 (battery) amps continuous. Given the
> > opportunity, would a
> > single Warp9 ever draw this much current? If not,
> > anyone recommend
> > alternatives?
> >
> > Thanks for any advice :)
> >
> > -Ian
> >
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ouch, sorry to hear of the mishap, but glad you're not seriously injured.
Unsettling that this happened at only about 10mph, but we've also heard from
a few surprised Sparrow drivers too. I don't know how easy (or even
possible) it would be to modify the ol' banana, but maybe Peter and Jerry
will have some thoughts about making trikes more stable.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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On 31 Mar 2007 at 11:57, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> No more than 15 miles between charges, and I always
> have the car plugged in if it sits overnight. It has ten, 12 Volt SCS-225
> Trojan batteries that I bought new in September of 2006 for a total system
> voltage of 120VDC. It has a properly programmed Zivan NG3 on-board charger.
> While driving, I never surge below 10.5 volts per battery or 105 Pack Volts. I
> usually try to stay under 300 Battery Amps Draw, unless I nearly get run over
> in traffic. The trouble is I have apparently Killed 3 batteries in the first
> three months...
I'm assuming you're keeping them watered.
IIRC, Zivans are notorious for overcharging. They have pretty aggressive
equalization in their profile.
Also, you're using high capacity marine batteries. They're not really
designed for anything more strenuous than a trolling motor and a few lights -
25 amps or so. Battery current in the 300 amp range is asking a lot of
them.
A service life of 12 months is pretty typical for marine batteries in EV
use, and I've seen them killed in 6 months.
Can you find a way to fit fifteen 8 volt golf car batteries in there? Maybe
build a battery box under the back seat? They won't last as long as regular
6v GC batteries, but a lot longer than marine batteries. Better yet, see if
you can find room for 16 of them. Then if you still want better life, you
can drop back to 96 volts' worth of 6v golf car batteries, which served EV
hobbyists well for many years.
If you want to stay with 12v marine batteries, high current AGM batteries
such as Optima G31s are apt to last longer in that kind of service. Of
course they will cost appreciably more initially, and probably will require
a different charger (and battery regulators).
Also, don't let the Zivan equalize on every charge cycle.
BTW, I know lead prices are up, but $110 each sounds kinda high to me. You
might try a different battery dealer.
Others here may have more ideas for you. Good luck. FYI, battery
amortization is almost always the lion's share of a road EV's operating
cost.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
On 31 Mar 2007 at 18:55, peekay wrote:
> the elevation of 4500 ft cannot possibly be done without a hybrid or
> re-charging along the way .. almost at the end of every mile ! .. since
> an EV will be higher by 4500/8 = 562 ft every mile (simplyfying)
Careful with that phrase "cannot possibly." It will come back round to bite
you in the bum! As Lee Hart says in his signature, "Those who say it cannot
be done should not interrupt the one who is doing it."
http://www.electrifyingtimes.com/pikes_peak_ER3.html
Pike's Peak is over 14,000 ft elevation.
They used lithium batteries. An earlier attempt with lead batteries almost
succeeded, but not quite. Even then they definitely did not have to charge
"almost at the end of every mile."
Also, check out Alex Krause's one-charge Alps crossing in a Mini-Evergreen :
http://www.brusa.li/applications/e_mini_evergreen.htm
San Bernadino is 1620m, Stabio 270m - a difference of exactly 4500 ft. This
was done almost 10 years ago with nickel-cadmium batteries.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
On 31 Mar 2007 at 0:15, bruce parmenter wrote:
> except now they state Tesla's 250 mile range is not enough
When the objective is to bash EVs, 500 miles isn't enough. A thousand
isn't. Regardless of the reason - their funding or their own opinions - to
these writers, nothing with an electric motor in it will EVER be good
enough.
I appreciate the effort and expense Bruce puts into this service, but I have
to admit I don't read all the posts as closely as I used to. Lately I find
myself skimming the first sentence or two. Often, when I pick up an anti-EV
tone, I'll just skip to the next one and leave the rest of the piece unread.
I can usually determine the tone of the article from the first paragraph. I
suppose I should stay aware of what the opposition is doing. But I'm just
plain tired of reading anti-EV propaganda, regardless of how well it may
prepare me for anti-EV arguments.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Everybody:
While browsing the Northern Tools catalogue, I stumbled over a Briggs
Vanguard 18 HP EPA and CARB certified Diesel engine. Now - it is not cheap
(about 4 1/2 K$) but all one would need is to mate it to a suitable
generator head or adapted ADC motor, and, voila, here comes more or less
clean power.
Question is: What kind of a controller would one use to regulate the power
output from the generator? Is there anything available, that one could use
or would one have to find some whiz to solder something?
mm./
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi
Add a whisper of lpg to the diesel it will give 30% more power and last 33%
longer
Michaela Merz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hello Everybody:
While browsing the Northern Tools catalogue, I stumbled over a Briggs
Vanguard 18 HP EPA and CARB certified Diesel engine. Now - it is not cheap
(about 4 1/2 K$) but all one would need is to mate it to a suitable
generator head or adapted ADC motor, and, voila, here comes more or less
clean power.
Question is: What kind of a controller would one use to regulate the power
output from the generator? Is there anything available, that one could use
or would one have to find some whiz to solder something?
mm./
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.changeeverything.ca/ev_diary_part_two_who_killed_the_electric_car_industry
The link above may explain what you've experienced. Trust this helps.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello All,
I have been driving my conversion now for about 6 months. It can be seen
here:
<_www.austinev.org/evalbum/887_ (http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/887) >
I drive about 6 miles one-way to work and back and around town. I charge at
home and at the office. No more than 15 miles between charges, and I always
have the car plugged in if it sits overnight. It has ten, 12 Volt SCS-225
Trojan
batteries that I bought new in September of 2006 for a total system voltage
of 120VDC. It has a properly programmed Zivan NG3 on-board charger. While
driving, I never surge below 10.5 volts per battery or 105 Pack Volts. I
usually try to stay under 300 Battery Amps Draw, unless I nearly get run over
in
traffic. The trouble is I have apparently Killed 3 batteries in the first
three
months...they just would not hold a charge any longer. The dealer replaced
them. Then, last night, I noticed one of the recently replaced batteries was
hot and had reversed a cell. Now that makes 4, $110 batteries in 6 months! At
this rate, I can't afford to drive this little car for very long. WHAT AM I
DOING WRONG HERE? Is there something I am missing? I thought I would at LEAST
get 2 years out of this pack. I have only put 1900 miles on these batteries
in 6 months. Any input is greatly appreciated. HELP!
David
Ratliffgrp AT AOL DOT COM
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
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--- Begin Message ---
My friend Charlie Macarthur asked me last year about coming to Mt.
Washington. I guess he started this thing back in the '70's.
He almost made it up to the top back then with his Corbin electric
motor cycle. He walked it up the last little bit as the batteries faded.
A couple years ago, he drove Corbin Sparrow #2 up to the top of the
mountain. He will be there, probably with his 2CV or Reliant
Robin. Both of those are gas powered, but are certainly a little
different!
I am working on a minimal jerry rigged charger for my nicads and am
close with the soon to be rebuilt 120V Lester that I am nursing
to charge the bank until the new parts arrive. It has free and I can
manually charge the bank with good results (I think!) If they are
charged properly,
I think it can do it.
Anyway, coming down is more of a concern. US Solar Car had a magnetic
clutch and alternator that they installed on the tail end of the
9" ADC for regen. I am wondering about doing that for this jaunt.
EVen if I just ran the output of an alternator to one (or two) (OR
THREE) of my BIG honkin'
contactor controller resistors and contributed to global warming, at
least, that is better than dragging a log down the hill with me.
Back in 1971, I drove my 1963 VW bus up there. Picked up a lot of
hippies on the way down who hiked up but didn't want to hike down.
There was quite a party with many refreshments being passed
around :^}, up to the point that the brakes failed and I had to drive
off the road into a pile of dirt
to stop the bus.
The refreshments stopped and everyone got out.
I sheepishly drove off after the fluid cooled down.
Won't do that again if I do go.
Ah, memories!
Tom in Maine
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
childreypa wrote:
Is there any alternative to an expensive new setup. In other words, if
I just wanted to get something to work, and since its my first go at
it, didn't want to pile a ton of money into it, are there any motors
or parts that I can experiment with? Maybe a used system or parts
interchange? But something with still enough power to get down the road.
There are a number of low-cost entries into EVs.
Perhaps the best way is to buy a used, already-converted EV that needs
work. It is common for people to buy an EV, beat the batteries to death,
and then sell it cheap with bad batteries. The EV list is a wonderful
resource for avoiding the problems of the previous owner. For this to
work, you have to be pretty handy with your hands, and willing to learn.
If you want to build or convert something yourself, it is possible to do
so at low cost with used or surplus parts. Just be aware that they will
be a lot more work to mount and get working, and won't perform as well
as "proper" EV parts. Examples include: Used forklift motors. Surplus
aircraft starter/generators. Forklift controllers. Home-made contactor
controllers. Golf cart batteries (new or used). Used large UPS batteries
that get changed out every year or so just for insurance. Home-made or
golf cart chargers.
> How about an industrial ac motor? Can I use a bunch of 12v batteries
> with low Ah's to get the higher current, even if I lose a lot of
> range?
These are not good strategies for a low cost or practical EV. AC drive
systems are a lot more expensive and complicated. Trying to use many
small batteries creates reliability and safety problems that are
difficult to solve.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 31 Mar 2007 at 11:52, Michaela Merz wrote:
> EPA and CARB certified Diesel engine.
Better than not certified, of course. But the last time I checked, EPA's
requirements for stationary engines (fixed gensets, welders, etc.) were
appreciably looser than for mobile sources cars, even "light" trucks). I
don't know about CARB's.
Seems to me that an ordinary automotive ICE still looks like the better bet
for APU use. It's probably cleaner and it's certainly cheaper - when you
eviscerate your glider, you usually get one for free. Tear it down and
rebuild to original specs, and you should have a reasonably clean APU power
source for many thousands of miles. Of course if you plan to use it more
than a few times a year, it raises the question of why you'd want to convert
the vehicle to EV in the first place.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
On 31 Mar 2007 at 12:11, robert mat wrote:
> http://www.changeeverything.ca/ev_diary_part_two_who_killed_the_electric_car_i
> ndustry
>
> The link above may explain what you've experienced.
The Zivan may be part of the problem, but it's also the battery choice, and
there are probably other factors too.
BTW, the writer of the page referenced above makes some pretty broad
generalizations. Certainly poor battery and charger choice, and the
omission of BMSes, has hurt conversions and their manufacturers. However,
converters have failed for many reasons - including just plain lousy
business sense. \
I'm also instantly skeptical every time I read the phrase "Revived
Batteries" (note the capital letters).
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey all
Steve just called as the announcer was still screaming
about the run that Killacycle and crew pulled off an
8.30 sec, 153 MPH first run at just 1200 amps 8^)
They are staging for the second run for the record and
then they'll start cranking up the amps.
I hope they caught the excitement from the announcer
on video! I could barely hear him over the guy!
His wife was kind enough to call me back and a recheck
of the stats after the commotion died down.
I'll keep people updated as best I can do to screaming
annoucers and roaring Harleys screaming in the
background.
I'm not even there and I'm all gooshy inside 8^)
Congrats on an awesome run.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
____________________________________________________________________________________
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Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi, could anyone please advise if the Zivan can somehow be voltage-limited?
Thanks in advance.
David Roden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On 31 Mar 2007 at 11:57, [EMAIL
PROTECTED] wrote:
> No more than 15 miles between charges, and I always
> have the car plugged in if it sits overnight. It has ten, 12 Volt SCS-225
> Trojan batteries that I bought new in September of 2006 for a total system
> voltage of 120VDC. It has a properly programmed Zivan NG3 on-board charger.
> While driving, I never surge below 10.5 volts per battery or 105 Pack Volts. I
> usually try to stay under 300 Battery Amps Draw, unless I nearly get run over
> in traffic. The trouble is I have apparently Killed 3 batteries in the first
> three months...
I'm assuming you're keeping them watered.
IIRC, Zivans are notorious for overcharging. They have pretty aggressive
equalization in their profile.
Also, you're using high capacity marine batteries. They're not really
designed for anything more strenuous than a trolling motor and a few lights -
25 amps or so. Battery current in the 300 amp range is asking a lot of
them.
A service life of 12 months is pretty typical for marine batteries in EV
use, and I've seen them killed in 6 months.
Can you find a way to fit fifteen 8 volt golf car batteries in there? Maybe
build a battery box under the back seat? They won't last as long as regular
6v GC batteries, but a lot longer than marine batteries. Better yet, see if
you can find room for 16 of them. Then if you still want better life, you
can drop back to 96 volts' worth of 6v golf car batteries, which served EV
hobbyists well for many years.
If you want to stay with 12v marine batteries, high current AGM batteries
such as Optima G31s are apt to last longer in that kind of service. Of
course they will cost appreciably more initially, and probably will require
a different charger (and battery regulators).
Also, don't let the Zivan equalize on every charge cycle.
BTW, I know lead prices are up, but $110 each sounds kinda high to me. You
might try a different battery dealer.
Others here may have more ideas for you. Good luck. FYI, battery
amortization is almost always the lion's share of a road EV's operating
cost.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tom,
Your friend's picture is still floating around the
web. Infact it is on the historical site of
Corbin-Gentry Electric Motorcycle.
http://www.mgmojo.com/corbinmotors/chapter3.html
BTW does Charlie Macarthur still have the motorcycle
and could you get me in contact with him via a e-mail
address?
Lyle Sloan
--- Tom Gocze wrote:
> My friend Charlie Macarthur asked me last year about
> coming to Mt.
> Washington. I guess he started this thing back in
> the '70's.
> He almost made it up to the top back then with his
> Corbin electric
> motor cycle. He walked it up the last little bit as
> the batteries faded.
>
> A couple years ago, he drove Corbin Sparrow #2 up to
> the top of the
> mountain. He will be there, probably with his 2CV or
> Reliant
> Robin. Both of those are gas powered, but are
> certainly a little
> different!
>
> I am working on a minimal jerry rigged charger for
> my nicads and am
> close with the soon to be rebuilt 120V Lester that I
> am nursing
> to charge the bank until the new parts arrive. It
> has free and I can
> manually charge the bank with good results (I
> think!) If they are
> charged properly,
> I think it can do it.
>
> Anyway, coming down is more of a concern. US Solar
> Car had a magnetic
> clutch and alternator that they installed on the
> tail end of the
> 9" ADC for regen. I am wondering about doing that
> for this jaunt.
> EVen if I just ran the output of an alternator to
> one (or two) (OR
> THREE) of my BIG honkin'
> contactor controller resistors and contributed to
> global warming, at
> least, that is better than dragging a log down the
> hill with me.
>
> Back in 1971, I drove my 1963 VW bus up there.
> Picked up a lot of
> hippies on the way down who hiked up but didn't want
> to hike down.
> There was quite a party with many refreshments being
> passed
> around :^}, up to the point that the brakes failed
> and I had to drive
> off the road into a pile of dirt
> to stop the bus.
>
> The refreshments stopped and everyone got out.
>
> I sheepishly drove off after the fluid cooled down.
>
> Won't do that again if I do go.
>
> Ah, memories!
>
> Tom in Maine
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
8.30 sec, 153 MPH first run at just 1200 amps
1200 amps with a 2,000 amp controller? At this rate, they will get
into the 7's!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
An arc flash cannot happen at EV voltages? I wish this was true I would not
have second degree burns. I received no electric shock my injuries were all
from exposure to extreme heat.
Unfortunately I found out Arc flashes can happen with an EV but it seems
only at voltages over 120 volts. Voltages over 120 volts can use vaporized
metals to continue the direct short which expands out with the blast. This is
the
information I have come across.
The example you give below could be the equivalent of 8 sticks of dynamite.
You do not need that high of voltage and batteries can deliver burst of amps.
I was working on a removed battery pack tray at waist height. It is
fortunate I was not above the event but off to the side.
I would also use extra caution with copper. I was using a small Ah tester it
vaporized a good part of the copper clamp. I can assure you a fire ball and
blast is very doable with a battery pack. The 40,000 to 1 expansion rate for
vaporized copper most likely was a contributing factor to the size of this
fireball.
Regardless If your pack is over 120 volts I would take precautions that
would include protection from an arc blast. I guess I would relate this to
being
prepared as when blowing up a flooded battery. It is not something you intend
to do or happens very often.
I do not plan on doing any more of these so someone else is going to have to
tell us how well other conductive metals work. I really hope no one does that
is why I posted this. I am not trying to scare anyone but unless you have
seen one of these happen you have no idea what it is like.
Don
In a message dated 3/31/2007 12:54:16 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
While I won't deny the fact that you had a very scary experience
and I hope you and your EV are unharmed, the problem you are
describing occurs with electrical installations that are a wee
bit heftier than our average EV's battery pack.
We really need to create an all-out short circuit to make a
current of 2,000 or maybe even 3,000 flow, the problems with
the deadly arc-blast occur on lines that are over 480V and
several tens of kA, as outlined in Ferraz-Shawmut papers at
http://www.ferrazshawmut.com/arcflash/getting_help/articles_whitepapers.cfm
So, yes - batteries can kill and plasma's can certainly occur.
Getting electrocuted and getting (hot) acid on you are certainly
one of the less desirable side-effects of wrenching on EVs.
But they usually are preventable.
Use enough isolation and common sense when working around HV;
use a mid-pack fuse to prevent plasma's, even though this is
more to protect the batteries and equipment than to avoid
arc blasts, because the ones we make are really babies....
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 12:12 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Arc Flash & Ark Blast Warning !!!!!
I hope anyone who has a pack voltage over 120 volts or is thinking of
adding batteries that will increase their existing voltage to exceed 120
volts is aware of an extreme danger of an arc flash explosion. It seems
common knowledge about using gloves, face shields, and one hand behind your
back.
Yesterday I had my first and hope last flash arc experience. It was such an
astounding event I Google to learn more about what happened. Words do not
even come close to describing it. It was about as loud as a large m-60
firecracker, blinding bright, and a very very hot expanding explosion.
If copper is in the arc the expansion rate is 40,000 to 1 when the arc
vaporizes copper. With vaporized copper you have for an instant a path that
is transferring an unbelievable amount of power into heat. Clothing that is
made of a polyester blend is not something you want on.
I cannot say how strongly I recommend you at least read what I found below
searching Google on "Arc Flash". Although this is mostly about electricians
I can assure you the danger from a pack of batteries is very real. You may
not receive an electrical shock but you will be exposed to an unbelievable
amount of heat.
Don
The cause of the short normally burns away during the initial flash and the
arc fault is then sustained by the establishment of a highly-conductive
plasma. The plasma will conduct as much energy as is available and is only
limited
by the impedance of the arc. This massive energy discharge burns the bus
bars, vaporizing the copper and thus causing an explosive volumetric
increase,
the arc blast, conservatively estimated, as an expansion of 40,000 to 1.
This
fiery explosion devastates everything in its path, creating deadly shrapnel
as it dissipates.
Based on available statistics, it's expected that the explosive energy
released during an arc blast will send more than 2,000 North American
electrical
workers to burn centers each year. The sad thing is that most of these
workers
will not have been properly warned of the magnitude of the hazard — if
they're warned at all.
Although arc blast injuries are not as frequent as other electrical
injuries, their severity makes the costs to human life and to industry as a
whole
much, much greater.
Arc Flash is a short circuit that flashes from one exposed live conductor
to
another, or to ground. The resulting ionized air creates electrically
conductive superheated plasma that can reach temperatures of 5000°F and
above. The
explosion takes less than one second and produces a brilliant flash,
intense
heat, and a pressure blast equivalent to several sticks of dynamite.
Consider...
an electrical arc may reach a temperature in excess of the surface of the
sun. This causes vaporization of copper in the arc zone. Its expansion,
combined with that of the superheated of surrounding air, creates a deadly
plasma
mixture that is explosively blasted from the fault zone, with heavy
concussive
forces imposed on nearby personnel.
What is Arc Flash?
Electrical workers are exposed to a number of hazards whenever they work
live, including electrical shock. But arc flash is another hazard that can
cause
serious injury or death - even if an employee doesn't come into direct
contact with an energized conductor.
What is Arc Flash?
Arc flash is a short circuit through air that flashes over from one exposed
live conductor to another conductor or to ground. Arc flash incidents are
common and costly, and the frequency of reported accidents is increasing.
This
is why arc flash has become a very hot topic within OSHA and the safety
industry overall
What Causes Arc Flash?
Arc flashes can be caused in a variety of ways:
Just coming close to a high-amp source with a conductive object can cause
the electricity to flash over.
Dropping a tool or otherwise creating a spark can ignite an arc flash.
Equipment failure due to use of substandard parts, improper installation,
or
even normal wear and tear.
Breaks or gaps in insulation.
Dust, corrosion or other impurities on the surface of the conductor.
How Common Is Arc Flash?
In the past, if someone suffered burns in an electrical accident, people
thought the burns were caused by the electrical shock passing through the
body.
Electrical shocks can cause burns. But what research has shown is that
most
burns from electrical accidents actually come from arc flash.
The majority of hospital admissions due to electrical accidents are from
arc
flash burns, not from electrical shocks. (Taken from NFPA 70E-2004
standard) Of the approximately 350 persons killed in the work place by
electricity
last year, roughly 50% were related to arch flash.
A report compiled by Capelli-Schellpfeffer, Inc., estimates that five to 10
arc flash explosions happen in the USA every day, resulting in 1 to 2 deaths
per day.
That figure only in takes into account incidents where victims were sent to
special burn centers. The number does not include cases sent to regular
hospitals or clinics, nor unreported cases or near misses.
What Kind of Injuries Can Arch Flash Cause?
What is the impact of these accidents and what types of injuries can they
cause? Injuries from arc flash accidents tend to be very severe, and result
from two types of hazards: arc flash and arc blast.
Arc Flash: Electric arcs produce intense heat, and can heat the air to
temperatures as high as 35,000 degrees Fahrenheit. This is 4 times the
surface
temperature of the sun. Fatal burns can occur when the victim is several
feet
from the arc. Serious burns are not uncommon even at a distance of 10
feet.
Arc flash can cause the following injuries:
Skin burns by direct heat exposure
Metal is vaporized at this temperature. Droplets of molten metal can be
propelled over great distances, causing serious burns or igniting clothing.
High-intensity flash can also cause damage to eyesight.
Arc Blast: a high-energy arcing fault can produce a considerable pressure
wave and sound blast. The intense heat from arc causes the sudden
expansion
of air, resulting in a blast.
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Nikki, David and All,
Not much can be done with a 1f2r trike like
the City-El in handling as you just have to slow down when
taking corners as all the weight goes to the forward outside
corner where they don't have a wheel. That why I went with a
2f1r 3wheeler.
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/926 City-El example
From what she says, I'd use more air in the
tires or go to a better ones. And it shouldn't be a MC tire
as it's not designed to handle side loading a trike gives
but for radial 2wheel MC loads instead which may be the
problem.
More and lower weight inside the 2wh axle
helps though that isn't easy it looks like.
If I were her I'd weigh each wheel and with
her in it, try to get about 40% vehicle weight on the front
wheel for a 1f2r trike.
Flooded batts shouldn't be a acid problem if
you use good tie-downs that hold the caps too. I like a box
and bolt down the lid to hold them in place. And nowdays,
the acid used takes quite a while, 30 minutes to produce
even a mild burn like a sunburn so not really a problem
except for those justifying their expensive AGM batts that
have much less range at higher costs and anti EV'ers.
Looks like a cool EV, very useful for many
people but as every car, vehicle, needs to be driven within
it's limits. Just look at all the SUV single car accident
rollovers here in the states to see my point. Every other
wrecked SUV has rollover damage.
If she wants a 70 mph model. I'd suggest a
2f1r Morgan 3wheeler kit like a B.R.A. or if any Berkley's
are still available for a great handling, racing EV though a
more aero body would be good if a lot of high speed work,
range is needed. As they are so light, a fast, great
handling EV can be made with modest EV parts. And still get
the advantages of a cyclecar's less tax, otherwise in
England.
But for most around town shopping, ect trips,
the City-El should be fine. I'd drive and love to have one.
Here in Tampa-Fla, it's considered a Moped
and can use the bike lanes, allowing one to pass all the
stuck rush hr traffic, actually getting there faster than a
reg car can for much less money.
More 3wheelers at
http://www.3wheelers.com/enter.html
Jerry Dycus
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Flippin' Good Fun... A cationary tale
Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2007 17:19:26 +0100
>Hey Jim,
>
>Yeah. I was joking a while ago that the City El was perfect
>for Do- nuts... Damnit!
>
>;)
>
>I reckon the idiot behind the wheel didn't realise the
>batteries were a bit lighter than the old ones and a so
>the banana had a little less between her wheels to keep
>her wheels on the ground!
>
>I want the 70mph model.. Just not there yet. Damn
>frustrating thing is that I switched the tires out a few
>weeks ago for "official City El" tires. I did have racing
>Maloyas on. They would have just skidded before tipping.
>The Continentals I have on there grip better but don't
>quite do what they ought in a sideways fashion (the
>sidewall collapsed over the wheel, or rather, vice versa)
>
>The new batteries do the trick but of course the hood is
>now in need of replacement. I'm contemplating what sort
>of top to get. How many cars do you know that can get
>changed from convertible to hard top and back by
>replacing the ... door? ;)
>
>Thanks for the sympathy etc. Were it tomorrow no-one would
>have believed me!
>
>Nikki.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Jim Husted wrote:
Hey all
Steve just called as the announcer was still screaming
about the run that Killacycle and crew pulled off an
8.30 sec, 153 MPH first run at just 1200 amps 8^)
They are staging for the second run for the record and
then they'll start cranking up the amps.
Yeah, I've been getting phone calls, too. Wow, how exciting is 2007
already turning out to be? This is a monumental time to turn!
Note that in addition to being a low 8, there's also that hard-to-ignore
153 mph speed, too! I've been harping on Bill to try series-parallel for
some time...glad to see it finally put in place. Their plan is a good
one, in that everything will be left set the same for the second 'back
up' run so as to seal the 8.3 as a world record. Then, they'll crank it
up to see if the bike can run even quicker....I predict it will.
Killacycle is poised to blast into the heady 7 second region -
incredible!!!!
A fun final note....I want everyone to 'try' and imagine this.....I had
Rich 'Madman' Rudman on the home phone in my left ear, while at the same
time I had Jim 'Over-amped' Husted on the cell phone in my right ear,
both all hyped out (imagine that), both running their mouths a mile a
minute (imagine that) and both relating their received 'from the track'
phone calls from the Killacycle team at the same time.
My head hurts......
See Ya...John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I picked up a couple at the local barnes and noble today. (here in
fresno,CA there are 6 or so left)
Anyway, good article. I think they did a good job of writing to their
crowd. Takeing on the concerns kinda head on which keeps the readers
reading. But you guys are the stars, a writer can't just make it up.
Good Job All. (of course only the members of this group and some
discovery channel devote's get the comment about gone postal not having
teeth on race day)
While I was there, I saw another magazine talking about green
transportation. The April "Outside". (it has Schwarzenegger on the
cover) it has an article about why electric cars may be back for
good(pg60) and a 1 page pathetic review of the Covet, Pheonix's zero
emmision SUV(pg53). Actually I am kinda a techy magazine type, to me
this is too much of a "People" type format (People as in the magazine
"People")
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's the type of battery I'm afraid to say. I have Trojan 30XHS's in my Saturn,
12 of them, which are the same battery internally as the SCS225. They just do
not hold up for such use. I had 4 of my 12 replaced in the first year under
warranty, they just dropped cells despite specific gravity showing fine. I'm
almost 2 years in to the pack and they are absolutely shot, I only have 3 of
the original 12 in the car and I've been lucky enough to get enough secondhand
used batteries out of GEM cars to keep mine going.
I know, they probably looked good on paper initially, but they just don't hold
up. They probably really shouldn't be discharged at over 150 amps and no more
than 75 continuously. They work good in a GEM at 25mph, but not in a highway
capable car.
I have a plan in my head, I'm going to 8-volt golf cart batteries when I have
time this summer to pull the car apart. I should have a lot better range and
cycle life.
One other thing, you said you were replacing them and paying for them? They do
have a 1 year free replacement warranty.
Rick Suiter
92 Saturn SC
AZ Alt fuel plate "ZEROGAS"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello All,
I have been driving my conversion now for about 6 months. It can be
seen
here:
<_www.austinev.org/evalbum/887_ (http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/887) >
I drive about 6 miles one-way to work and back and around town. I
charge at
home and at the office. No more than 15 miles between charges, and I
always
have the car plugged in if it sits overnight. It has ten, 12 Volt
SCS-225 Trojan
batteries that I bought new in September of 2006 for a total system
voltage
of 120VDC. It has a properly programmed Zivan NG3 on-board charger.
While
driving, I never surge below 10.5 volts per battery or 105 Pack Volts.
I
usually try to stay under 300 Battery Amps Draw, unless I nearly get
run over in
traffic. The trouble is I have apparently Killed 3 batteries in the
first three
months...they just would not hold a charge any longer. The dealer
replaced
them. Then, last night, I noticed one of the recently replaced
batteries was
hot and had reversed a cell. Now that makes 4, $110 batteries in 6
months! At
this rate, I can't afford to drive this little car for very long. WHAT
AM I
DOING WRONG HERE? Is there something I am missing? I thought I would
at LEAST
get 2 years out of this pack. I have only put 1900 miles on these
batteries
in 6 months. Any input is greatly appreciated. HELP!
David
Ratliffgrp AT AOL DOT COM
---------------------------------
Don't pick lemons.
See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
--- End Message ---
