EV Digest 6629
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) History Lesson?
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Preventing Motor Flash Over (was RE: KillaCycle Update)
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
3) Re: Multi-million-dollar X Prize set for automotive innovation, IDEAS
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Multi-million-dollar X Prize set for automotive innovation
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
5) Re: Preventing Motor Flash Over (was RE: KillaCycle Update)
by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Preventing Motor Flash Over (was RE: KillaCycle Update)
by "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Chip on WMAL Radio
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Preventing Motor Flash Over (was RE: KillaCycle Update)
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Auto Watering of Ni-Cads, diluted electrolyte
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) 357 MPH!!!!!!!!! an' Stuff
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Preventing Motor Flash Over (was RE: KillaCycle Update)
by "Randy Burleson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Preventing Motor Flash Over (was RE: KillaCycle Update)
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Multi-million-dollar X Prize set for automotive innovation
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: History Lesson?
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) FL Keys Green Living & Energy Expo
by "Shawn Waggoner, FLEAA" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: 357 MPH!!!!!!!!! an' Stuff
by "Mike Wyman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Insurance
by "Mike Wyman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Multi-million-dollar X Prize set for automotive innovation
by "Mike Wyman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
So are the plans available for the Willey 7, 400 amp
transistor controller?
What ever happened to Custom Electronics, 9722
Lindgren Ave, Sun City, AZ 85373?
--- russco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Yep, a fellow by the name of Charles Huntley out of
> Oakland was selling
> the Baldor motors around '82, if memory is correct.
> Rated at 8 hp and
> 100 amps, they all fried sooner or later. This was
> the time everyone
> was using 2CM77's like Bruce McCaskie. The Willey
> 7, 400 amp transistor
> controller was the thing and Steve Post and PMC
> hadn't been heard of
> yet. Fortunately, the Prestolite MTC-4001 saved the
> day.
>
> Yep, 1982. Where are they now? Bill Williams, Stan
> Skokan, Al Hardage?
> Mike Brown with Electro Auto and Ken Koch with KTA
> are about the only
> players still going from the old days. And Russ,
> too.
>
>
> Russ Kaufmann
> RUSSCO Engineering
> The other PFC Charger
>
>
>
> David Roden wrote:
>
> > In the late 1970s and early 1980s, Baldor got
> something of a bad name in the
> > EV community through no apparent fault of their
> own.
> >
> > A bunch of Baldor motors, sepex or shunt IIRC,
> made their way into
> > conversions (surplus buy? Lee Hart or one of the
> other longtime EVers here
> > may remember where they came from). They had, I
> think, class B insulation,
> > and quite a few of them let all their smoke drift
> away on the West Coast
> > breeze.
> >
> > I had one of these motors at one time that I'd
> gotten as part of a larger
> > deal. It sat in my garage for years, condition
> unknown but reportedly "not
> > too good" - the com at least looked pretty rough.
> I finally gave to Peter
> > VanDerWal. (Did you ever do anything with that
> motor, Peter?)
> >
> > This is really a case of the wrong motor for the
> application, pushed WAY
> > beyond its capabilities, but it tarnished Baldor's
> name, probably unjustly.
> > It would be very interesting to see what they
> build today that would be
> > suited to EV use.
> >
> >
> > David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> > EV List Assistant Administrator
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Get your own web address.
Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL
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In a message dated 4/4/07 8:24:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< Subj: Re: Preventing Motor Flash Over (was RE: KillaCycle Update)
Date: 4/4/07 8:24:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bruce Weisenberger)
Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-to: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Mike you slipped
Also remember anything added to the bike proposed to
reduce flash over is an add in weight to the bike.
Remember they lowered the weight factor by 55 lbs (and
65 lbs if you count driver weight loss)before this
race. And to maintain CO2 or NOS or vacuum would add
weight. It would take a 25 to 30 lb bottle of any gas
to keep it neutral atmosphere during a run. Also they
would need one for each race.
Dummy question time:
The Advancing the motors. If they get advanced too far
won't that lower the initial starting torque? And by
lowering the torque will that not kill the 60 ft
times?
A EV dummy suggestion: Use variable timing while going
down the track. Have a solenoid adjust the timing as
it moves from Series to parallel. That way you have
good torque all the way down the track. Again only a
thought. May want to ask Denise Berube how well that
would work before jumping into it. I saw a motorized
method he has but I believe it is a manual adjustment
from a panel in the cockpit. Nor did I ever see him
adjust it in the couple runs I saw him run. And as
fast as these vehicle go I suspect there is no time to
adjust by hand when going down the track.
*****I do not have the servo motor hooked up for the bracket racing the CE
is doing now(1 more thing to screw up during the bracket races).When I did have
it runing however it was worth at least .3 sec in the 1st 60ft,and then makes
for no arcing(on my motor)and more speed at the far end.The servo motor is
operated by time placement going down track.I think such a system on Bills bike
would be worth a least.3 seconds and maybe without replacing the motors every
2 runs.***** Dennis
Bill you and your Crew did great. Congratulations on
breaking records twice this weekend. First on
Saturday then on Sunday. Sorry I missed Sunday now.
But that history for you. Your either part of it or
you read about it.
>>
</HTML>
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----- Original Message -----
From: "George Swartz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 9:00 PM
Subject: RE: Multi-million-dollar X Prize set for automotive innovation
> Just bought a Prius. I like the car in most respects, but only get 41 mpg
> in city driving. I expected a little better, not necessarily the sticker
> figure of 60mpg. The "X" car challenge won't use a course that generates
> optomistic and unachievable MPG results.
There are godamn FEW Prei that do in the 60's!!!Unless you get a Plugitin
conversion.
> As the next evolution of the Prius, I would like to see an ultra efficient
> diesel engine. Of course, I would love convert to plug in assist, but
voids
> all Toyota warranties.
> Hi Geo an' EVerybody;
I have an' 01 Prius,I get about 40-43 MPG, but, again I have a size 14
foot! And I try to keep up with traffic. If I drive it like an electric I
can do better.Other guyz have driven my Prius and done in the low 50's,
razzed me about it, but whaddoya expect ya have a size 8 shoe<g>??But if I
have a full house 3or 4 others aboard, or a trunkfull of T 145's ,it does
darn near as well!
A Diseasel Prius would be the way to go, for miliage. Hell! The old
Jokeswagen Rabbits used to do in the 50's! My Rabbit, before I converted it
did that well, but as a Diseasel, you couldn't take off in second or do
world class breake stands, like as an elkectric.
I'll bet a Solectria Sunrise , the prototype one with the NiMH batteries
and James Worden at the wheel, he did Boston- NYC on ONE charge, 230 miles
or so, as the train flies.But we all know what happened to THOSE Gooderies,
NOT badd-eries. General Murders,......... We ALL saw the movie. Sigh!
Hay! James W.!? Got your ears on? Howbout YOUR Sunrise and borrow Bill
Dube's a 123 pack, and a few more, maybe? In that faithful Sunrise you still
have. Yeaaah! Go for the bux, here! I'll bet the Sunrise would do the 100
miles in less than a gal equilivent? Especially if you were to go over to
Doug Korthof's for lunch, and charge Sunrise from the Solar Array HE uses?
It is just logistics here; Sunrise is in Massa two shits, race in
CA?Batteries in CO.I'll drive the truck, tho<g>!
Out of my Fantesy(Perfect) World, but stranger things have happened!
Seeya
Bob
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.25/745 - Release Date: 4/3/07
12:48 PM
>
>
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So this "plug-to-wheels" means including the losses from the
charger-batteries-controller-motor-drag, I can't find a number in their
draft as to what the actual WH/mi requirement, but against gasoline it'd
have to be around 330-360WH/mi? is that right?
The "Alterative Class" seems very do'able, only two people and a 100mi
range. - I'm curious what the WH/mi is of the Tango or Tesla.
Of course I'm sure an EV1 with some lithium batteries would have put out
some impressive numbers. ;)
I wonder if any major automakers will compete.
(Though the pessemist in me says that one of the big automakers will come
out with something, win, take the money, and never bother to put out
anything. after all, it only has to be "production capable", nothing binds
them to actually sell it :P )
But it will be interesting to watch what comes out of all this :)
>
> Andrew Kane writes:
>> This contest would make a lot more sense if the metric were KWh/mi or
>> similar metric rather than MPG.
>
> Which is how the contest is proposed to be run.
>
> The draft guidelines state MPGe, or "miles per gallon equivalent", which
> is further defined to be the "pump-to-wheels energy efficiency". They also
> state that, for the energy efficiency part of the contest, conversions
> (eg. kWh/mile) will be based on energy equivalency. An example is also
> given for BEVs that clarifies "pump-to-wheels" as "plug-to-wheels".
>
>
>> The efficiency of any car is energy in over miles travelled. The rules
>> as stated allow for a lot of "cheating," i.e. by using a plug-in Prius
>> (supplementing the fuel with battery energy which may not be counted
>> in the car's "fuel" budget) or by simply using a chemical fuel with a
>> greater energy density than gasoline.
>
> It may have been reported as such, but it is clear from the draft
> guidelines that this is not the case.
>
> No doubt it will be refined somewhat after comments from the public and
> prospective teams, but ISTM that considerable thought has gone into the
> production of the draft guidelines.
>
>
>> If they woulda ast me I coulda told em...
>
> They have asked you, in a fashion :-)
> http://auto.xprize.org/xprize/comments.html
>
> Cheers,
> Claudio
>
>
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I was just thinking that if you could tighten the motor up enough that it would
hold the vacuum for 10 minutes or so, you could draw it down with a big vacuum
pump right before the race. No extra weight added to the vehicle. It only has
to hold the air out til you get to the end of the track. The downside is extra
heat build up inside without open inspection ports. Maybe a forced air (or
CO2) cooling shot after you get back to the pits.
Am I missing something here, would you not want to put NOS through an arcing
motor? Or are we considering the extra boost you'd see when the motor blows of
the rigging ;-)
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The issue here is that you'd have to hold the pressure below
10millitorrs (one atmosphere is ~750 torr ) to make a difference, if
it goes above that you'll be worse off.
Breakdown voltage actually goes down with pressure down to a certain
point, below which it increases again. Look up Paschen curve.
Drawing a vacuum that low, on a motor with a large spinning output
shaft to seal, things getting hot changing dimensions and outgassing,
would be really hard.
You'd also lose cooling of armature and brushes. The better option,
IMHO, would be to try to pressurize the motor instead. You're now
improving cooling, increasing breakdown voltage, the heat will work
for you instead of against you and if the pressure bleeds off you're
no worse off than before.
Of course, at this point you might ask yourself, why not go AC and get
rid of the weak link.
-Peter
On 4/4/07, MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I was just thinking that if you could tighten the motor up enough that it would
hold the vacuum for 10 minutes or so, you could draw it down with a big vacuum
pump right before the race. No extra weight added to the vehicle. It only has
to hold the air out til you get to the end of the track. The downside is extra
heat build up inside without open inspection ports. Maybe a forced air (or
CO2) cooling shot after you get back to the pits.
Am I missing something here, would you not want to put NOS through an arcing
motor? Or are we considering the extra boost you'd see when the motor blows of
the rigging ;-)
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
--
www.electric-lemon.com
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--- Begin Message ---
Hey all.
Made it on one of the conservative radio stations in DC today,
although for a very short amount of time. They emailed yesterday from
the EVA/DC website and we did the interview a couple minutes later.
They wanted to know if we felt slighted with all the talk on ethanol
and hydrogen.
http://www.wmal.com/listingsEntry.asp?ID=492813&PT=NEWS
On their website, Rush Slimeball's picture (Rush is a self-proclaimed
EV-1 hater) is above the story since he is on the air now. Arghh. But
we'll take what we can get. We seem to be getting more attention from
these folks. Or it could be a jab at us and I took the bait. But I
thought it was fair.
Here's what I mentioned that they didn't put in.
The new Tesla has a range of 250 miles and can go to 0 to 60 in 4
seconds.
Hydrogen is "look over there technology" and years away from
production on a mass scale.
Plug-in hybrids are a great alternative and a stepping stone for the
public to become familiar with battery-only vehicles.
I put in a plug for the Power of DC but they said it's a bit too
early to announce that yet.
Also forgot to mention the Car and Driver article . . . arghh. . .
but I guess they had a very short window to work with.
He did ask (this didn't make it in the piece) if Bush ever came by
one our EVA/DC meetings. I mentioned "no" but several EVs including
the Phoenix were recently unveiled on the White House lawn.
Chip Gribben
EVA/DC
http://www.evadc.org
NEDRA
http://www.nedra.com
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--- Begin Message ---
One small mistake- air ionizes EASIER at lower pressure. IIRC you get
the insulation properties of a gap back when you get to really low vac,
but for the more likely case of a partial vac it'll be worse.
I suspect the heat buildup may be pretty bad even for a short run. That
becomes a thermos, all the elements are in a near-perfect insulation.
This might cause failure in unusual locations as well. For example a
somewhat thin bare copper strap or tab which normally dissipates its
heat without a problem could fail very quickly.
Danny
MIKE WILLMON wrote:
I was just thinking that if you could tighten the motor up enough that it would
hold the vacuum for 10 minutes or so, you could draw it down with a big vacuum
pump right before the race. No extra weight added to the vehicle. It only has
to hold the air out til you get to the end of the track. The downside is extra
heat build up inside without open inspection ports. Maybe a forced air (or
CO2) cooling shot after you get back to the pits.
Am I missing something here, would you not want to put NOS through an arcing
motor? Or are we considering the extra boost you'd see when the motor blows of
the rigging ;-)
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the response, the main reason for re-using the exit water I was
told is that there is some electrolyte in it and if you don't the batteries
will become diluted over time.
Best Regards,
Mark
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 14:03:46 +0100
From: "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Auto Watering of Ni-Cads
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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On 4/4/07, Mark Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi,
In looking at the Safdt STM5-180 manual for my batteries, it appears that
the exit on the last tube should dribble in a bucket (for negative pressure
syphoning). Another EV'er mentioned that if it's pumped from the source
tank at the head end then the exit tube can be routed back into the source
tank. Would this work or cause overfill?
I read that too, but I'd be inclined to stick to what's in the manual.
You can collect the exit water and use it again of course, but I feel
it's best to use "fresh" water - any water that is sitting about in
header or collection tanks is likely to absorb dust and gases from the
air.
Also I was thinking of using 2 tie-down ratchet straps per battery instead
of the usual allthread & bar across the top. Can anyone recommend a good
tie down for batteries that doesn't corrode and goes on fairly quickly?
I've used large nylon cable-ties to hold down those batteries before,
two pairs per module (joined end to end to be long enough). I feel
that's OK as long as they're in a box and outside the passenger cabin.
_________________________________________________________________
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Hi EVerybody;
Didya catch on the snewNews Media last night the record setting TGV (Train
Grande Vitasse)or FAST train, in France. They pushed the steel wheel on rail
record from 312 to 357MPH, this is REAL MPH not wimpy KPH's! The TV Clips of it
going under an underpass with fans watching was like watching Zombie launch, I
mean Thrill Factor! Giving new meaning to " If Ya blink, ya MISSED it!" No
joke! Other heartstopping and warming shots were from the Head End, where the
engineer sits, cat. poles FLYING toward you, outdriving your visibility in
DAYLIGHT. I.E. IF there was anybody just walking on the track, you wouldn't
have TIME to reach for the horn, or swerve<g>! He would be track pizza so
quick!.Good thing they don't have grade crossings, there!!!! Good windshield
wipers would be a nessecity! A shot of the drive wheels just SINGING along,
tracking Perfectly on a Perfect track.Oh so BEAUTIFUL! The way God intended
railways to work! Yeah, old steamers and woody coaches are quaint!
, in museums, and nostalgia for the building of a great nation, and think of
it; from 3-4 months to cross USA by horse and wagon, to Pullmanic splendor, in
4-5 daze. EVen TGV would be hard to beat the transcon RR here in USA. But fast
forward here from 1869; The SNCF(French National Railway) has done their
homework! Of course it's Electric,(on topic) they said that it did 25k Horse
power!!Hate to see the E bill! Our wimpy Acela can only call up 14k. WELL , it
MIGHT do better trying to pull a coal train, before toasting the motors? Sigh.
But As I was watching I was thinking; IF I were flying, in my mind ,along at
150MPH in my trusty Acela Express, and the TGV was here as a guest apperance,
on the OTHER track, in full boil mode it would BLAST past me at over 200 MPH!
Now THAT would cut ya down to size! Passengers would be asking the train men;"
Why have we stopped?"IF it didn't blow the windows out from the speed! No
joke, years ago, when the Metro Liner was testing 40 years!
ago, on the Pennsy, it blew out the coach windows on the old P-70 coa
ches, the old House Type wooden framed glazing. OK for mere 100 mph
speeds!Gees! They were good enough, in 1907 when the first of those were built.
You could open them and stick your head out, a fun thing deneighed to modern
train riders! There is REALLY about 2 feet between passing trains,in USA,
PROBABLY more in France? so you could get away with it, but it sure is a
surprise, when another train passes!
As TGV flies along I'm thinking if anything goes wrong? He will be plowing
up real estate for MILES, before he gets it stopped! Sideways, upside down,
backwards. But we try to put that out of our minds as train drivers! It's scary
enough getting used to 150mph. HOPING there isn't another train coming AT you.
BOY would that be a train wreck of heroic porportions! A closing speed of 700
MPH! Would ruin EVerybodies day, and probably register on the Ricter Scale!
The news guy remarked that the French were hoping to sell thev trains and
technology to China. Hah! Never mentioning the good olde USA.No need! We would
hafta swallow our pride, and anti up BIG bux to build the lines to run it on.
Don't worry, it'll NEVER happen here with out a Regime Change or armed
Revolution!
But think of all the planes it could sweep from the sky? Without firing a
shot! To hell with Jet Blue, you could do Miami- NYC in 3 hours, oh , maybe a
tad more? DC NY in FORTY minutes, our best Acela time is about 3 hours, now.
Yawn! But GREAT in 1938, when the wires went up! Planes pollute,BIG time ,but
we need them for transatlantic/Pacific flights where it would be tricky and
expensive building RR's. But for the price of the Iraq War we coulda built a
RR and hiway bridge/ tunnel across the Bering Streight, tying in with the
Russian Interstates<g> and RR's, but you would hafta deal with Russia's non
standard gage (5 foot) we would fall in, with Amtrak's stuff! Get Putin to
putin an extra rail, for us? I saw that Diss-covery Channel pogram about DOING
the trans bridge thing. DRIVE to Paris from Peoria! IF you could afford the 3
bux a gal gas. It just hit 3 bux at my local inconvenience store, in
Corrupticut, yesterday!
By the time all this were to pass we'll all have died of old age or air
pollution, anyhow. But drivin' yur EV to Europe, I would HOPE there would be
outlets or charging stations EVery hundred miles or so? Now THAT would be a
trip. The Moscow NEDRA runs, and "Once more around the Blok" Show an' Shine!? A
10k trailer run. Jim, Tim, John<g>? EACH way. Maybe the'll be an Auto Train?
Bottom line(Finally!) EV's and trains COULD be making a come-back, in our
life time? Rah! I got my Car an' Driver in CT at the Stupermarket, they had
plenty at Stop and Shop! Good article, but a tad condescending as for EV's in
general. Oh they gave John and the gang good press, but they don't get, really,
the " We Blow up Stuff so You Don't have to" thing here, the REAL meaning of
that sticker Stuff being developed on the strip will find it's way into street
cars, I don't mean streetcars, trolley type. EV's and NO mention of the Tesla
car. I guess when a few Tesla's hit the streets the Car an' Driver guyz will
hafta(Grudgingly) test them and report glowlingly, back to us? Maybe I would
subscribe?When they get into the nuts and volts of EV's with the same verve
they do gas rigs. They are very entertaining at what they do, I enjoy their
style, to a point. When EV's are common, they may fall in line?
I'll bet NEDRA and " Plasma Boy , Hy Torque ,websites have gotten
gazillions of hits, of late. And the great site, You Tube, BOY! Are they in our
corner! I can waste HOURS in You Tube in just the TRAIN stuff!Franken lift was
great, a first flight in an EV. Wish I had pix of my local garage guyz checking
out my Rabbit with loose batteries in back, a Jumper cable as a controller and
powr cables going out the passenger side open window! I can hear JW
cringing<g>! But the damn car actually went! About 35 on the leval. Big ZORCH
starting, getting a good "Bite" with the jumper cable clip lead! 30-40 volts or
so.Zillion amps!
The thrill of; " IT Goes!"
OK, I'll go!
Seeya
Bob
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--- Begin Message ---
> ...to maintain CO2 or NOS or vacuum would add weight. It would take
> a 25 to 30 lb bottle of any gas to keep it neutral atmosphere during
> a run. Also they would need one for each race.
Fiber paintball C02 tanks are small and light -- a master cylinder could
be used for recharges in the pit. C02 compresses down into a liquid form
that is very efficient, in terms of space and weight. I'm not sure how
well C02 insulates, but given the endothermic expansion, you'll get a
nice jet of cold gas.
Randii
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey all
--- Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Mike you slipped
Knowing Mike he was poking fun at Rod as well as at me
8^)
> Dummy question time:
> The Advancing the motors. If they get advanced too
> far
> won't that lower the initial starting torque? And by
> lowering the torque will that not kill the 60 ft
> times?
The motors were only advanced by about 4 degrees, just
enough to get the new hole to clear the OEM one so
looking at the 10 to 13 the other racers set these
motors were just off nuetral 8^)
Although a tad might be lost on the take off it makes
up for it at the backside and hopefully will prevent
or prolong the arcing 8^)
> A EV dummy suggestion: Use variable timing while
> going
> down the track. Have a solenoid adjust the timing as
> it moves from Series to parallel. That way you have
> good torque all the way down the track. Again only a
> thought. May want to ask Denise Berube how well that
> would work before jumping into it. I saw a motorized
> method he has but I believe it is a manual
> adjustment
> from a panel in the cockpit. Nor did I ever see him
> adjust it in the couple runs I saw him run. And as
> fast as these vehicle go I suspect there is no time
> to
> adjust by hand when going down the track.
Hey I've made 5 (I believe) variable brush rings,
balls in your guys' court. Waylands had his sitting
for 2 years now 8^o We just need someone to build it,
and then kill it for some data 8^P
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I witnessed most of the weekend 1st hand.Bill and
> the Crew did a great job
> vaporizing the old ev record.I predicted the 8.3
> (thats what got Bill in
> trouble with my backend)but the 8.16 really opened
> my eyes! Jim H.did a great job on
> the motors but I think(after taking apart his baby
> myself)Bill needs to bring
> him along as part of the crew.The motor cases are
> still intact BUT!!!
> Watching all the bikes this past weekend the
> Killacycle made the most smooth
> qt.mi.runs of any of them! Scott did a great job!
So you're the guy who voided Bills warranty huh? LMAO.
To be honest I'd have been willing to have puckered to
that other cheek of yours to have attended 8^o
Although I wasn't there phyically I was there in
spirit 8^) Anyway thanks for the kind words.
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I think
> such a system on Bills bike
> would be worth a least.3 seconds and maybe without
> replacing the motors every
> 2 runs.***** Dennis
I'll give you that dig 8^P
Actually with a gear change, series/parallel shift,
new back tire, new battery pack, ect. it's almost
impossible to compare apples to apples as to how the
stuff I did mattered. Having now seen the damage to
the OEM stuff (leads blasted clean in half)(field
isulation burnt to pole shoes) I'm confident I can say
mine faired better 8^) Maybe not a perfect build but
like they say the proofs in the time slips 8^)
EVen with the costs of buying a spare motor it only
ran Bill a couple bucks per hundreth of a second per
record reduction 8^) Although Bill lists me as a
sponsor I wasn't able to fund it all but felt I
matched him half way as far as my time went into them.
All and all I pretty pumped, I hope Bill and crew feel
the same 8^) I'm very proud to have worked on parts of
the Killacycle 8^)
Actually from what I heard the first two runs were
fine but the amps being boosted did the motors in.
Mike, hadn't heard from you and I was wondering if
your started having doubts as to how hard you're
willing to push to capture a record. You'll be out
there with folks willing to break stuff to do it.
You will have a fast racer per your plan, how hard
you'll push it is up to you and crew 8^)
I hope EVeryone realizes Bills motors are not 11's,
nor, 9's, or 8's, not EVen 7" motors but 6.7" baby
guys.
BTW Mike I wasn't saying pump NOS into an arcing motor
but making an EV arc surpressing (EV NOS) (no
offensive arcing) system, LMAO.
This is all I have time for now more later.
Cya all
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you keep a PiPrius under 40 mph.. it's a EV.. and with a trunk full of
Lions.. it's totally possible to have 100 mile range and still have a full
tank of gas when done.
Got The Green Machine up and running PHEV last night.. Long day I might add.
It's a Hawker/Enersys pack, the new Interlock box and a PFC40HM with a REV8
power board... The first thing I did was over charge the Hybrid pack... I
had the Engine spin blowing off 30 amps of over charge. Whoops!!!
No question I can stuff 7000 watts into the Hybrid pack. No damage.. But..
That was a surprise!!!. No issue the pack only jumped 5 Deg F while doing
it. I will have to drop back the agressiveness settings... There is a time
and place for hard charging... and time when you sit and watch the SOC drop
waiting for the next opertunity to slam watts back into a emptier Hybrid
pack.
These Prii.. with a soldid 40 amps of support from the PHEV add on pack..
can hold the amps at 100 drive amps for quite a while, Since 1/3 of it is
coming from elsewhere...
Man the Toyotas are easier than the Fords to make real EV performance.
Much Fun...
Making PHEVs.. one at a time.. with 3 in process...
Back to it...
More miles on the grid and no CO2 made at all.
Madman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chip Gribben" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 2:52 PM
Subject: Re: Multi-million-dollar X Prize set for automotive innovation
> I didn't read all the information. But this has already been done,
> hasn't it?
>
> Wouldn't one of Rich Rudman's Plug-In Prius kits work. 100 mpg.
>
> I'm not sure what the emissions would be.
>
> Maybe take it one step further and strip the car down and make a
> lighter composite body to gain some more MPGs.
>
>
>
> Chip Gribben
> NEDRA
> http://www.nedra.com
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 3, 2007, at 1:22 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
>
> > The winning vehicle will have to achieve at least 43 kilometres per
> > litre
> > (100 miles per US gallon), regardless of the type of fuel it uses. Its
> > carbon emissions must be no more than 125 grams of carbon per
> > kilometre. And
> > it has to be cheap enough to expect sales of 10,000 each year.
> > "We're aiming
> > at the middle of the market," says Mark Goodstein, executive
> > director of the
> > Automotive X Prize.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Yep, 1982. Where are they now? Bill Williams, Stan
> Skokan, Al Hardage?
Al Hardage died several years ago from Lou Gehrig's disease. His
wife Pat has remarried, and last I heard she was getting involved
with the EAA again, helping out with rallies, etc.
Let us not forget Clarence Ellers, who died recently. He held the
EAA together with his unique newsletter for many years.
> Mike Brown with Electro Auto
Yup, still here.
and Ken Koch with KTA
But no longer selling to the hobbyist conversion market.
> are about the only
> players still going from the old days. And Russ,
> too.
Yup, still here too.
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Everyone,
This past weekend the FLEAA participated in the FL Keys GLEE (Green Living
and Energy Expo - www.keysglee.com) and had 3 of our vehicles on display.
Charles Whalen had one his RAV4 EV's, Cliff and Marilyn Rassweiler of ProEV
had their hot Electric Imp and Matt Graham and I had SEVO's new Plug-in
Prius (still in the works) all on display. The turn-out was great and we
talked to lots of people. The overall response to our cars and efforts was
fantastic. There were lots of displays and vendors there with everything
from solar water and electric to recycling to organic food vendors. We
passed out lots of flyers about EV's, "Who Killed the Electric Car?" and
copies of 'Current Events' - the EAA newsletter.
We also got to meet Bill Moore, editor of EV World. He came by with a local
reporter to interview all of our car owners and help try to get our club
some good local exposure in the media. Cliff made the cover page of the
story on the EV World write-up for the GLEE event:
http://evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=1219
But with such a great shirt like Cliff was sporting, how could he help but
NOT put him in there! ProEV has just offered their new shirts for sale on
their website: http://proev.com/S3Gear.htm
The Keys was a great place to have the cars, the weather was beautiful, the
road speeds are only 45MPH and no one is in a rush! I hope we can see more
EV's on the road down there, if ever a place was meant to have EV's, it's
the Keys!
I want to thank all of our members who came out to the event for supporting
the effort. It really was a good time and great event.
Thanks,
Shawn Waggoner
Florida EAA
561-543-9223
www.floridaeaa.org
PS - Pictures of the event will be up in the photo gallery in the next few
days, so please keep checking it. -S
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How bout LA-SF in one hour? Damn. Will we live to see it?
PS: Tho this is a new steel wheel record, Japan still holds the world's
train record with its magnetic levitation train, which clocked 360 mph.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 11:27 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: 357 MPH!!!!!!!!! an' Stuff
Hi EVerybody;
Didya catch on the snewNews Media last night the record setting TGV
(Train Grande Vitasse)or FAST train, in France. They pushed the steel wheel
on rail record from 312 to 357MPH, this is REAL MPH not wimpy KPH's! The TV
Clips of it going under an underpass with fans watching was like watching
Zombie launch, I mean Thrill Factor! Giving new meaning to " If Ya blink,
ya MISSED it!" No joke! Other heartstopping and warming shots were from the
Head End, where the engineer sits, cat. poles FLYING toward you, outdriving
your visibility in DAYLIGHT. I.E. IF there was anybody just walking on the
track, you wouldn't have TIME to reach for the horn, or swerve<g>! He would
be track pizza so quick!.Good thing they don't have grade crossings,
there!!!! Good windshield wipers would be a nessecity! A shot of the drive
wheels just SINGING along, tracking Perfectly on a Perfect track.Oh so
BEAUTIFUL! The way God intended railways to work! Yeah, old steamers and
woody coaches are quaint!
, in museums, and nostalgia for the building of a great nation, and think
of it; from 3-4 months to cross USA by horse and wagon, to Pullmanic
splendor, in 4-5 daze. EVen TGV would be hard to beat the transcon RR here
in USA. But fast forward here from 1869; The SNCF(French National Railway)
has done their homework! Of course it's Electric,(on topic) they said that
it did 25k Horse power!!Hate to see the E bill! Our wimpy Acela can only
call up 14k. WELL , it MIGHT do better trying to pull a coal train, before
toasting the motors? Sigh. But As I was watching I was thinking; IF I were
flying, in my mind ,along at 150MPH in my trusty Acela Express, and the TGV
was here as a guest apperance, on the OTHER track, in full boil mode it
would BLAST past me at over 200 MPH! Now THAT would cut ya down to size!
Passengers would be asking the train men;" Why have we stopped?"IF it didn't
blow the windows out from the speed! No joke, years ago, when the Metro
Liner was testing 40 years!
ago, on the Pennsy, it blew out the coach windows on the old P-70 coa
ches, the old House Type wooden framed glazing. OK for mere 100 mph
speeds!Gees! They were good enough, in 1907 when the first of those were
built. You could open them and stick your head out, a fun thing deneighed to
modern train riders! There is REALLY about 2 feet between passing trains,in
USA, PROBABLY more in France? so you could get away with it, but it sure is
a surprise, when another train passes!
As TGV flies along I'm thinking if anything goes wrong? He will be
plowing up real estate for MILES, before he gets it stopped! Sideways,
upside down, backwards. But we try to put that out of our minds as train
drivers! It's scary enough getting used to 150mph. HOPING there isn't
another train coming AT you. BOY would that be a train wreck of heroic
porportions! A closing speed of 700 MPH! Would ruin EVerybodies day, and
probably register on the Ricter Scale!
The news guy remarked that the French were hoping to sell thev trains
and technology to China. Hah! Never mentioning the good olde USA.No need! We
would hafta swallow our pride, and anti up BIG bux to build the lines to run
it on. Don't worry, it'll NEVER happen here with out a Regime Change or
armed Revolution!
But think of all the planes it could sweep from the sky? Without firing
a shot! To hell with Jet Blue, you could do Miami- NYC in 3 hours, oh ,
maybe a tad more? DC NY in FORTY minutes, our best Acela time is about 3
hours, now. Yawn! But GREAT in 1938, when the wires went up! Planes
pollute,BIG time ,but we need them for transatlantic/Pacific flights where
it would be tricky and expensive building RR's. But for the price of the
Iraq War we coulda built a RR and hiway bridge/ tunnel across the Bering
Streight, tying in with the Russian Interstates<g> and RR's, but you would
hafta deal with Russia's non standard gage (5 foot) we would fall in, with
Amtrak's stuff! Get Putin to putin an extra rail, for us? I saw that
Diss-covery Channel pogram about DOING the trans bridge thing. DRIVE to
Paris from Peoria! IF you could afford the 3 bux a gal gas. It just hit 3
bux at my local inconvenience store, in Corrupticut, yesterday!
By the time all this were to pass we'll all have died of old age or air
pollution, anyhow. But drivin' yur EV to Europe, I would HOPE there would be
outlets or charging stations EVery hundred miles or so? Now THAT would be a
trip. The Moscow NEDRA runs, and "Once more around the Blok" Show an'
Shine!? A 10k trailer run. Jim, Tim, John<g>? EACH way. Maybe the'll be an
Auto Train?
Bottom line(Finally!) EV's and trains COULD be making a come-back, in
our life time? Rah! I got my Car an' Driver in CT at the Stupermarket, they
had plenty at Stop and Shop! Good article, but a tad condescending as for
EV's in general. Oh they gave John and the gang good press, but they don't
get, really, the " We Blow up Stuff so You Don't have to" thing here, the
REAL meaning of that sticker Stuff being developed on the strip will find
it's way into street cars, I don't mean streetcars, trolley type. EV's and
NO mention of the Tesla car. I guess when a few Tesla's hit the streets the
Car an' Driver guyz will hafta(Grudgingly) test them and report glowlingly,
back to us? Maybe I would subscribe?When they get into the nuts and volts of
EV's with the same verve they do gas rigs. They are very entertaining at
what they do, I enjoy their style, to a point. When EV's are common, they
may fall in line?
I'll bet NEDRA and " Plasma Boy , Hy Torque ,websites have gotten
gazillions of hits, of late. And the great site, You Tube, BOY! Are they in
our corner! I can waste HOURS in You Tube in just the TRAIN stuff!Franken
lift was great, a first flight in an EV. Wish I had pix of my local garage
guyz checking out my Rabbit with loose batteries in back, a Jumper cable as
a controller and powr cables going out the passenger side open window! I can
hear JW cringing<g>! But the damn car actually went! About 35 on the leval.
Big ZORCH starting, getting a good "Bite" with the jumper cable clip lead!
30-40 volts or so.Zillion amps!
The thrill of; " IT Goes!"
OK, I'll go!
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I used to run an EV dealership that sold Solectria Forces. As a conversion
we never had trouble with insurance. Our buyers simply signed up with their
regular AAA Insurance or some other company. As the issue is primarily
liability, rather than cost of replacement, insurance companies didn't
hassle our buyers.
If you don't have an insurance arrangement already, the best bet is to have
a sympathetic independent insurance agent who can shop around and secure the
insurance as the go between. Once an agent has signed off on it, the
Insurance Company tends to fall into line without a peep.
-Mike
PS: My Force is insured with CSAA.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dale Ulan
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 12:52 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Insurance
fairly straightforward to register and insure it, but being scratch
built you will need to find out how to title it, if it's even
possible/practical. Talk to a local hotrod or bike builder and
see what options you might have.
In some places there is a procedure for a homebuilt vehicle. In
Alberta, Canada, you get a VIN from the auto theft unit of your
local police service. You need to submit invoices to demonstrate
where you purchased all of the pieces to build your homebuilt
vehicle. Then, you get a safety inspection done - they check
everything like tail lamp height, headlamp aim, all the little
things. Once this has been passed, they will affix a VIN number
plate to your vehicle.
To manufacture vehicles, you need to be authorized by Transport
Canada to affix a VIN and compliance label - and you need to
comply with all of the regs including crash tests, etc. For a
single vehicle that you intend on driving then you don't have
to do that.
-Dale
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've driven a Prius rental (2003) at 62.5 mpg in competition. (Took second
place. First was 63 mpg) 100 would be quite an achievement. 45-50 mpg is
about the norm, I'd say.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of KARSTEN GOPINATH
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 9:38 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Multi-million-dollar X Prize set for automotive innovation
So much of this really depends on how the car is driven. I own a Prius
and when I drive I get 35-45 miles per gallon when my wife drives she
gets 50-60. I have heard of people being able to get almost 100 miles
per gallon in a stock prius by pulsing the gas pedal. Hopefully their
goal of 100 miles per gallon will be met with a car that requires no
special driving technique to achieve it.
On Apr 3, 2007, at 6:24 PM, George Swartz wrote:
> Thanks, your are correct about the "nut behind the wheel" My confused
> main
> point was that a diesel ICE and refinement of the Prius could push its
> MPG
> from 50 towards the X=car 100 MPG goal. After all, the VW rabbit
> disel of a
> few decades ago got an actual 50 MPG.
>
>
>
> On Tue, 3 Apr 2007 18:08:46 -0700 , Cor van de Water wrote
>> You should check the archives of Prius_Technical_Stuff yahoo group.
>> Tons of info why your MPG may be low (including the nut behind the
>> wheel) and how to cure, errr - learn how to drive a Hybrid for
>> efficiency.
>>
>> I own a classic one and get over 47 MPG in mixed driving.
>>
>> Cor van de Water
>> Systems Architect
>> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
>> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
>> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
>> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
>> Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> On Behalf Of George Swartz Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 6:01 PM To:
>> [email protected] Subject: RE: Multi-million-dollar X Prize set
>> for automotive innovation
>>
>> Just bought a Prius. I like the car in most respects, but only get
>> 41 mpg in city driving. I expected a little better, not necessarily
>> the sticker figure of 60mpg. The "X" car challenge won't use a
>> course that generates optomistic and unachievable MPG results.
>>
>> As the next evolution of the Prius, I would like to see an ultra
>> efficient
>> diesel engine. Of course, I would love convert to plug in assist,
>> but voids all Toyota warranties.
>
--- End Message ---
