EV Digest 6628
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: KillaCycle Update
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) walking more efficient than rolling ? .. was Re: Bob Schneveis' Walking
Electric Chariot
by "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: The winds of change seem about the same
by "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Preventing Motor Flash Over (was RE: KillaCycle Update)
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Arc Flash & Ark Blast Warning !!!!!
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: walking more efficient than rolling ? .. was Re: Bob Schnevei
s' Walking Electric Chariot
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: to climb Mt. Washington .. limits of EV
by "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Multi-million-dollar X Prize set for automotive innovation
by "Andrew Kane" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: walking more efficient than rolling ? .. was Re: Bob Schneveis'
Walking Electric Chariot
by "peekay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Multi-million-dollar X Prize set for automotive innovation
by "Claudio Natoli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Insurance
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Auto Watering of Ni-Cads
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Auto Watering of Ni-Cads
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: KillaCycle Update
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
15) Re: Auto Watering of Ni-Cads
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) 2000 watt Scooter
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: walking more efficient than rolling ? .. was Re: Bob Schnevei s'
Walking Electric Chariot
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: walking more efficient than rolling ? .. was Re: Bob Schneveis'
Walking Electric Chariot
by "Dale Ulan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Preventing Motor Flash Over (was RE: KillaCycle Update)
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
--- James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> G'day Jim, All
>
> Hey Jim, from the photos it looks as though they may
> have taken the arc out
> along the corners of the brush holders, got a plan
> 'b' for beefing up the
> insulation rating of the holders?
Hey James, all
I'm actually hungry to get my eyeballs on them so I
can see what, where, how. There were two full motors
and then a comm plate I'd done. I believe only two of
the plates had the Nomex guards. Bill suggested we
increase the advancement on the brushes which I also
feel would be benificial. I'm also thinking about
reversing the side the springs sit on the holders.
I've got lots on my plate and it becomes what can
actually be done this season as "it" races by at what
feel like record time for me, lol.
Although it looks bad I'm hoping most is just soot and
she'll shine right back up 8^) Being The leads have
been made already and I doubt there is to much damage
there the plate repair is a fairly quick repair.
> Seriously though, it looks from the comm photo as
> though they got a
> brush-to-brush event, the even-ness of the damage
> seems to be a result of
> your hard work and care - there wasn't anywhere for
> the arc plasma to carry
> to, except the opposite brush (applause for the
> GMBitW - Greatest Motor
> Builder in the World).
Thanks James, man I try 8^)
I've really only seen just a few of these super volted
motor flashovers so far. Really I'm in uncharted
waters here so this failure will inable me to glean
new info as I babystep my way like I did 25 years ago
in the lift business. Hell if I work hard I might be
able to build a good EV motor by the time I die, LMAO!
> You'll need some ceramic arc guards to survive
> something like that - I
> don't see the little 'flag' of Nomex doing more than
> add to the soot as an
> event like that approaches!
Most of the stuff I get requests for are lets say for
the working guy 8^) Let's just say if I hit the lotto
I'd have some serious fun 8^D
> Here is a challenge for you, Jim - a ceramic arc
> chute, with gas ports that
> they can blow CO2 down against the comm and out
> under the end of the arc
> chute - chill the comm and blow away any starting
> arc? Another hundred
> volts at least! The biggest challenge would be
> getting it in there with all
> that other "stuff"! Reckon you can do it?
>
> Can the GMBitW continue to improve his Xtreem duty
> motors? Staaay tuuned
> race faanss...
Honestly, it pisses me off when my motors arc, I know
it's anal but it does. I guess I worry about a
non-EV'er seeing it and thinking this is your average
daily driver issue.
Then I step back and look at the fact that Bills
pulling what 100 to 125 HP out of a L91, and then I
get all gushy inside again 8^) He might EVen be close
to 1 1/2 HP per pound of motor. Hows that rate vs. an
ICE?
The funny thing is if you had told me two of these
motors would drive a 8.16, 155 MPH run I'd have
laughed in your face 2 years ago. I'm sitting here
wondering what I'll find funny 2 years from now 8^)
Anyway here's some of my madass ideas. Hinting at
Rods email I also had written Lee and Jeff their
thoughts on injecting an inert gas or other options.
I thought a small 7oz paintball gun cylider could
shoot a little EV NOS into the motor. I got varied
responces, lol.
Although Lee thought a nice neon glow at the end might
have that we meant to do that look, hehe.
Attaching big ass lightning rods on the sides of the
holders is another idea I've had, as is making a non
conductive holder like you mention. Unless the holder
was really close to the comm I believe the arc will
just find the brush. In fact some of the evidence
I've seen points to the brushes being the first arc
contact and then it burns outward from the bare metal
inside the holder.
I really do think some added brush advancement will
help, see if I can find the sweet spot for that
marko's "It just loves it on the freeways" technical
data on his ajustable brush ring, good help is so hard
to find, lol.
I'll be sure to grab pics and report back my findings
and I guess try harder next time 8^)
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
____________________________________________________________________________________
Get your own web address.
Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
with my merit ranking in high school and science
background, i too feel a bit odd when the professor
says that walking is more efficient than wheels ..
especially since he has been involved personally in
the mechanics of human motion in his job, i tend to
take his pronouncement rather seriously ..
with the kind of ev he has made, as shown in the same
video, verification of this concept may help
peekay
(personally i still don't feel that walking robot is
more efficient than rotating wheel drive)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lock Hughes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 6:03 AM
Subject: Re: Bob Schneveis' Walking Electric Chariot
> No way, peekay... "walking" ain't more efficient than rotary. HP is no
> comparison without work x (over) time/distance.
>
> Walking is "recipocal", like any piston, driven by steam, or gasoline
> or diseasal...
>
> Stop and go is NFG, compared to rotary.
>
> *Spun* by magnets and electrons? Rules. No contest.
>
> ps... IMHE (in my humble experience) 2/5 HP pushes me to 20kph. That
> electric riskshaw looks like it'd take me all day long... TGT... that's
> "to get there"... the important part of any commute :)
>
> tks again
> Lock
> human-electric hybrid
> Toronto
>
> --- peekay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > walking motion is more efficient than wheels .. says this
> > professor .. his electric rickshaw uses a 5 lb motor and
> > pulls 2 people easily
> >
> > does he have a website/email ?
> >
> > ..peekay
> >
> > (strange coincidence .. his rickshaw looks almost exactly
> > like the rickshaws here in calcutta, india where i am presently
> > located !)
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 1:25 AM
> > Subject: Bob Schneveis' Walking Electric Chariot
> >
> >
> > > I know this has been mentioned on this list before and I have
> > mentioned
> > Bob
> > > from time to time with quotes of his. This is a great video from
> > You Tube
> > > that I think is a must see.
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45ZquJIolvY
> > >
> > > Roderick Wilde
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.24/742 - Release Date: 4/1/2007
8:49 PM
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
i for one am very obliged for your extensive coverage
of what's going on around the world .. keeps me updated
both technically and commercially .. sometimes socially
too (with so much politics in EV's .. ugh !)
..peekay
----- Original Message -----
From: "bruce parmenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> I hope my work has been beneficial to you all and now I have
> brought an awareness of newswire trends I am currently seeing.]
(sure has been beneficial .. thank you !)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Jim,
Here's another idea but we'll keep this off the list and between you and me for
now ;-P
How about sealing off the whole motor and drawing a vacuum down on it. Kinda
like a KiloVac contactor. No air to ionize.
Although you'll have to beef up the external cooling with either fins or as
James mentioned CO2 injectors (inside or outside).
The CO2 cooling idea was one I had earlier and I just had the idea yesterday
about blowing it over the brushes to prevent arcing.
That crazy James though, your evil twin and motor mind reader from down under
is stealing my ideas ;-P
A CO2 show at the end of the run though might give the crowd a gasp and to add
to Lee's "we meant to do that look".
Mike
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Jim Husted
> Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 8:51 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: KillaCycle Update
>
>
>
> --- James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > G'day Jim, All
> >
> > Hey Jim, from the photos it looks as though they may
> > have taken the arc out
> > along the corners of the brush holders, got a plan
> > 'b' for beefing up the
> > insulation rating of the holders?
>
> Hey James, all
>
> I'm actually hungry to get my eyeballs on them so I
> can see what, where, how. There were two full motors
> and then a comm plate I'd done. I believe only two of
> the plates had the Nomex guards. Bill suggested we
> increase the advancement on the brushes which I also
> feel would be benificial. I'm also thinking about
> reversing the side the springs sit on the holders.
> I've got lots on my plate and it becomes what can
> actually be done this season as "it" races by at what
> feel like record time for me, lol.
>
> Although it looks bad I'm hoping most is just soot and
> she'll shine right back up 8^) Being The leads have
> been made already and I doubt there is to much damage
> there the plate repair is a fairly quick repair.
>
> > Seriously though, it looks from the comm photo as
> > though they got a
> > brush-to-brush event, the even-ness of the damage
> > seems to be a result of
> > your hard work and care - there wasn't anywhere for
> > the arc plasma to carry
> > to, except the opposite brush (applause for the
> > GMBitW - Greatest Motor
> > Builder in the World).
>
> Thanks James, man I try 8^)
> I've really only seen just a few of these super volted
> motor flashovers so far. Really I'm in uncharted
> waters here so this failure will inable me to glean
> new info as I babystep my way like I did 25 years ago
> in the lift business. Hell if I work hard I might be
> able to build a good EV motor by the time I die, LMAO!
>
> > You'll need some ceramic arc guards to survive
> > something like that - I
> > don't see the little 'flag' of Nomex doing more than
> > add to the soot as an
> > event like that approaches!
>
> Most of the stuff I get requests for are lets say for
> the working guy 8^) Let's just say if I hit the lotto
> I'd have some serious fun 8^D
>
> > Here is a challenge for you, Jim - a ceramic arc
> > chute, with gas ports that
> > they can blow CO2 down against the comm and out
> > under the end of the arc
> > chute - chill the comm and blow away any starting
> > arc? Another hundred
> > volts at least! The biggest challenge would be
> > getting it in there with all
> > that other "stuff"! Reckon you can do it?
> >
> > Can the GMBitW continue to improve his Xtreem duty
> > motors? Staaay tuuned
> > race faanss...
>
> Honestly, it pisses me off when my motors arc, I know
> it's anal but it does. I guess I worry about a
> non-EV'er seeing it and thinking this is your average
> daily driver issue.
>
> Then I step back and look at the fact that Bills
> pulling what 100 to 125 HP out of a L91, and then I
> get all gushy inside again 8^) He might EVen be close
> to 1 1/2 HP per pound of motor. Hows that rate vs. an
> ICE?
> The funny thing is if you had told me two of these
> motors would drive a 8.16, 155 MPH run I'd have
> laughed in your face 2 years ago. I'm sitting here
> wondering what I'll find funny 2 years from now 8^)
>
> Anyway here's some of my madass ideas. Hinting at
> Rods email I also had written Lee and Jeff their
> thoughts on injecting an inert gas or other options.
> I thought a small 7oz paintball gun cylider could
> shoot a little EV NOS into the motor. I got varied
> responces, lol.
> Although Lee thought a nice neon glow at the end might
> have that we meant to do that look, hehe.
>
> Attaching big ass lightning rods on the sides of the
> holders is another idea I've had, as is making a non
> conductive holder like you mention. Unless the holder
> was really close to the comm I believe the arc will
> just find the brush. In fact some of the evidence
> I've seen points to the brushes being the first arc
> contact and then it burns outward from the bare metal
> inside the holder.
>
> I really do think some added brush advancement will
> help, see if I can find the sweet spot for that
> marko's "It just loves it on the freeways" technical
> data on his ajustable brush ring, good help is so hard
> to find, lol.
>
> I'll be sure to grab pics and report back my findings
> and I guess try harder next time 8^)
>
> Cya
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Get your own web address.
> Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
> http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You should drive more carefully in the crosswalk
OK, serious:
There are almost 50,000 motor vehicle fatalities per year in USA,
but that does not stop anybody from driving.
You judge the risk, take the odds and do your best to be safe
by taking precautions like not driving and drinking, keeping
the rules of the road, maintaining your car and paying attention.
There will be a risk still - you simply accept it.
Same with batteries.
Sure they can make a plasma arc.
Sure they can burn and elektrocute and do other nasty things
if you make a mistake.
But that does not need to keep you from working on batteries,
just take precautions and judge your comfort level.
Now to go back to the original issue:
is there danger of dying from arc blast?
No, not with a typical EV pack.
Can you be blinded (temporarily) or wounded from flying metal drops or heat?
Sure, some protection can be useful to avoid the burn, the blinding
cannot be avoided or you can't work on your batteries in the first place.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 10:24 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Arc Flash & Ark Blast Warning !!!!!
Hello Dan
What is the Amperage that a fully charged pack can deliver for 2/5 of a
second?
Most of the material did not melt it was vaporized. I have years of welding
wire welding, gas, and stick. None are as hot or cause a flash of heat that
radiated out like this. Sound wise striking an arc stick welding is not even
close.
Your comparing to driving and walking. Our collision business has fixed
over 20,000 vehicles and half of them were no at fault.
Walking is not much safer I thought you might be surprised check out this
link _http://www.tfhrc.gov/safety/pedbike/issues/whodies.htm_
(http://www.tfhrc.gov/safety/pedbike/issues/whodies.htm)
I have personally seen three people hit on our street.
You can do everything right and yet accidents happen.
Don
In a message dated 4/3/2007 4:45:03 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Don,
As a retired power company engineer I have been involved in extensive
testing on this subject. The levels of voltage and available fault currents
involved in an electric vehicle come nowhere close to fitting the criteria
for 'Arc Flash & Arc Blast'
The voltages that are found in an electric vehicle pack are D.C. and no
where near high enough to have a sustained arc (it is possible to arc weld
with a D.C. pack, but that requires a continuous feeding of material that
is continuously melted away). What will occur in an EV will normally be a
momentary flash at best. This can be 'exciting', but in itself will not do
much damage. This type of arc CAN cause some very small amount material to
be expelled, so remember to always wear protective goggles while working on
an EV.
What is more dangerous is a 'bolted fault'. This is what happens when a
tool falls across two terminals and is welded in place or two wires come
together that shouldn't. Because this type of mid-pack event has no fuses
in the circuit the current will immediately go well above what the
batteries are capable of handling which will cause the batteries to heat
rapidly until one of more of the batteries will rupture (explode). This can
be a very expensive and dangerous event that can even result in fire, but
again is not 'Arc Flash or Arc Blast'. For this reason all tools should be
fully taped with only one end exposed (that means you can't use both ends
of an open/box end wrench).
Just like driving or walking across a busy intersection, you should take
relevant precautions when working with EVs, but not be afraid to do so.
Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 6:35 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Arc Flash & Ark Blast Warning !!!!!
************************************** See what's free at
http://www.aol.com.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
OK,
One way to find out is build it, then measure the current.
Another way to look at it:
- athlete running
- athlete bicycling
Who goes faster with the same effort?
All indicators are on the bicycle...
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of peekay
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 11:31 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: walking more efficient than rolling ? .. was Re: Bob Schneveis'
Walking Electric Chariot
with my merit ranking in high school and science background, i too feel a
bit odd when the professor says that walking is more efficient than wheels
..
especially since he has been involved personally in the mechanics of human
motion in his job, i tend to take his pronouncement rather seriously ..
with the kind of ev he has made, as shown in the same video, verification of
this concept may help
peekay
(personally i still don't feel that walking robot is more efficient than
rotating wheel drive)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lock Hughes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 6:03 AM
Subject: Re: Bob Schneveis' Walking Electric Chariot
> No way, peekay... "walking" ain't more efficient than rotary. HP is
> no comparison without work x (over) time/distance.
>
> Walking is "recipocal", like any piston, driven by steam, or gasoline
> or diseasal...
>
> Stop and go is NFG, compared to rotary.
>
> *Spun* by magnets and electrons? Rules. No contest.
>
> ps... IMHE (in my humble experience) 2/5 HP pushes me to 20kph. That
> electric riskshaw looks like it'd take me all day long... TGT...
> that's "to get there"... the important part of any commute :)
>
> tks again
> Lock
> human-electric hybrid
> Toronto
>
> --- peekay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > walking motion is more efficient than wheels .. says this professor
> > .. his electric rickshaw uses a 5 lb motor and pulls 2 people easily
> >
> > does he have a website/email ?
> >
> > ..peekay
> >
> > (strange coincidence .. his rickshaw looks almost exactly like the
> > rickshaws here in calcutta, india where i am presently located !)
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 1:25 AM
> > Subject: Bob Schneveis' Walking Electric Chariot
> >
> >
> > > I know this has been mentioned on this list before and I have
> > mentioned
> > Bob
> > > from time to time with quotes of his. This is a great video from
> > You Tube
> > > that I think is a must see.
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45ZquJIolvY
> > >
> > > Roderick Wilde
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.24/742 - Release Date:
> 4/1/2007
8:49 PM
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
yeah ! that was a good spank on one butt ;-)
just for records, my 'presumption' was based on
the prius's ability to climb vertically upto 600 ft
on one charge .. i guess the other cars you mention
have more energy stored in their batteries
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 11:21 PM
Subject: Re: to climb Mt. Washington .. limits of EV
> On 31 Mar 2007 at 18:55, peekay wrote:
>
> > the elevation of 4500 ft cannot possibly be done without a hybrid or
> > re-charging along the way .. almost at the end of every mile ! .. since
> > an EV will be higher by 4500/8 = 562 ft every mile (simplyfying)
>
> Careful with that phrase "cannot possibly." It will come back round to
bite
> you in the bum! As Lee Hart says in his signature, "Those who say it
cannot
> be done should not interrupt the one who is doing it."
cannot 'possibly' be done .. that was more of a doubt than saying
that it certainly cannot be done :-(
(luv that signature .. in science we learnt that the laws of science
are true only till another scientist comes along and proves it wrong)
>
> http://www.electrifyingtimes.com/pikes_peak_ER3.html
>
> Pike's Peak is over 14,000 ft elevation.
>
> They used lithium batteries. An earlier attempt with lead batteries
almost
> succeeded, but not quite. Even then they definitely did not have to
charge
> "almost at the end of every mile."
from the site :
Battery Pack 12kWh (LG Chem Lithium-ion Polymer)
Motor 165 kW AC induction
Curb weight 1150 pounds (522 kg)
Top Speed 125 mph
Charging time 30 min
from the above data it appears that a li-ion pack
of 12kWh is enough to put EV3 522kg CGI racer
14,000 ft above sea level in a record 14hrs 33 min
without a re-charge en route .. that's great !!
or am i missing something ?
> Also, check out Alex Krause's one-charge Alps crossing in a Mini-Evergreen
:
>
> http://www.brusa.li/applications/e_mini_evergreen.htm
>
> San Bernadino is 1620m, Stabio 270m - a difference of exactly 4500 ft.
This
> was done almost 10 years ago with nickel-cadmium batteries.
this site says at the end :
Charging in Stabio the batteries required 23.5 kWh from mains, what
corresponds to a very deep energy consumption of 10.7 kWh / 100 km
so while 4500 ft height did get covered , it used
about .107 kwh per km in the hilly terrain
the LOW range of EV's like the reva (45 km) then becomes
a mystery .. since these two are proved cases of long distance
driving without charge en route
something sure is a-miss ..
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EV List Administrator
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This contest would make a lot more sense if the metric were KWh/mi or
similar metric rather than MPG. The efficiency of any car is energy in over
miles travelled. The rules as stated allow for a lot of "cheating," i.e. by
using a plug-in Prius (supplementing the fuel with battery energy which may
not be counted in the car's "fuel" budget) or by simply using a chemical
fuel with a greater energy density than gasoline.
If they woulda ast me I coulda told em...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
may be easier to ask the professor about the basis of
his statement .. since he already has built it
..peekay
(i still feel that the wheel is more efficient)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> OK,
>
> One way to find out is build it, then measure the current.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Andrew Kane writes:
> This contest would make a lot more sense if the metric were KWh/mi or
> similar metric rather than MPG.
Which is how the contest is proposed to be run.
The draft guidelines state MPGe, or "miles per gallon equivalent", which is
further defined to be the "pump-to-wheels energy efficiency". They also state
that, for the energy efficiency part of the contest, conversions (eg. kWh/mile)
will be based on energy equivalency. An example is also given for BEVs that
clarifies "pump-to-wheels" as "plug-to-wheels".
> The efficiency of any car is energy in over miles travelled. The rules
> as stated allow for a lot of "cheating," i.e. by using a plug-in Prius
> (supplementing the fuel with battery energy which may not be counted
> in the car's "fuel" budget) or by simply using a chemical fuel with a
> greater energy density than gasoline.
It may have been reported as such, but it is clear from the draft guidelines
that this is not the case.
No doubt it will be refined somewhat after comments from the public and
prospective teams, but ISTM that considerable thought has gone into the
production of the draft guidelines.
> If they woulda ast me I coulda told em...
They have asked you, in a fashion :-)
http://auto.xprize.org/xprize/comments.html
Cheers,
Claudio
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Check with Progressive. I know for a fact that progressive will insure
home made motorcycles, AND they will insure EVs.
Finally, I know from personal experience that they will insure home made
EVs. They were the only people in town I could find that would insure my
truck.
> I have just about completed a built from scratch electric motorcycle.
> I've been looking for insurance coverage and have not found anything
> specific. Does the list have any recommendations for insuring such a
> vehicle? Thanks, me.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 1:24 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: plug in prius conversion
>
> Hi Rich,
>
> Thanks for your comments on the V-Boost PHEV description.
>
>> Boy this sounds famillure..
> That is what I thought when I saw your first postings on your PHEV work
> about a year ago!
> I had thought of the idea in September 2005. I placed an order in early
> November 05 for an intelligent (microprocessor controlled and
> programmable to follow the learning curve) boost converter based on an
> intelligent buck/boost regulator that was then finishing its development
> phase. This PHEV project was pushed one year behind first by a boost
> converter delivery 8 months later than expected. Then it was not
> working/surviving at this application's operating voltage.
> Consequently, I had to start over from scratch to develop this boost
> converter myself in November 2006.
>
>> Keep in mind the usefullness of lead Acid packs. it gets folks out
>> there really taking Gas off line and using the Grid...
>> If you make the battery pack stand alone.. then you just remove the
>> Lead, and swap out to Lithium or..What ever fits the customers wishes.
> Agreed. A low entry cost in lead, and flexible operating voltage ranges
> for the boost converter make it easier to change and upgrade battery
> packs for both our systems.
>
>> All the other stuff.. can really add up the cost of install. Don't
>> under estimate the costs of The little stuff.
>> It's not little.
> Ain't that the truth!
>
>> Now I have to make 5 interlock boxes.. They are the relay boxes that
> flip
>> you from Grid charge to PHEV drive mode. Under CAN-view control and
> pass the
>> canview drive signals to the PFC charger. These little babies have
> about
>> $600 worth of high reliability contactors in them. That's my cost mind
>> you... This is a spendy box.. that basiciy does a cable change over
> that
>> takes about 30 seconds if you do it by hand. Ryan and I ran all last
> year
>> with the cheap Anderson conenctor version... I wish there was a
> easier
>> way to flip 8 condcutors with 40 amps at over 240 volts DC.
>>
>> Most of this stuff is needed no matter how you do your Phev Prius.
> If a separate charger is used instead, then much of the expensive stuff
> and cabling to "flip you from Grid charge to PHEV drive mode" is not
> required, the cabling becomes simpler, and the savings could then pay
> for a charger This would likely be an isolated charger and a lower
> power one, of course, for that dollar amount. The approach that
> provides the best value and results depends on the weighting put on the
> various factors. If fast recharge and multiple charge/discharge cycles
> per day is a priority for a particular customer, then the double use of
> your high-power charger will likely be less expensive than using a PFC
> charger with my V-Boost system.
>
>> I have 3 PiPrius kits inprocess at the moment.. It's Fun to have a
> parking
>> lot full of 'em.
> I bet! It is great to learn of this in action...
>
> You have my respect and appreciation for all that you are doing in the
> EV and PHEV areas.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Doug
>
>>
>> From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Date: 2007/04/02 Mon PM 12:32:38 EDT
>> To: <[email protected]>
>> Subject: Re: plug in prius conversion
>>
>> Boy this sounds famillure..
> Snip
>>
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
In looking at the Safdt STM5-180 manual for my batteries, it appears that
the exit on the last tube should dribble in a bucket (for negative pressure
syphoning). Another EV'er mentioned that if it's pumped from the source
tank at the head end then the exit tube can be routed back into the source
tank. Would this work or cause overfill?
Also I was thinking of using 2 tie-down ratchet straps per battery instead
of the usual allthread & bar across the top. Can anyone recommend a good
tie down for batteries that doesn't corrode and goes on fairly quickly?
have a renewable energy day,
Mark
_________________________________________________________________
Cant afford to quit your job? Earn your AS, BS, or MS degree online in 1
year.
http://www.classesusa.com/clickcount.cfm?id=866145&goto=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.classesusa.com%2Ffeaturedschools%2Fonlinedegreesmp%2Fform-dyn1.html%3Fsplovr%3D866143
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 4/4/07, Mark Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi,
In looking at the Safdt STM5-180 manual for my batteries, it appears that
the exit on the last tube should dribble in a bucket (for negative pressure
syphoning). Another EV'er mentioned that if it's pumped from the source
tank at the head end then the exit tube can be routed back into the source
tank. Would this work or cause overfill?
I read that too, but I'd be inclined to stick to what's in the manual.
You can collect the exit water and use it again of course, but I feel
it's best to use "fresh" water - any water that is sitting about in
header or collection tanks is likely to absorb dust and gases from the
air.
Also I was thinking of using 2 tie-down ratchet straps per battery instead
of the usual allthread & bar across the top. Can anyone recommend a good
tie down for batteries that doesn't corrode and goes on fairly quickly?
I've used large nylon cable-ties to hold down those batteries before,
two pairs per module (joined end to end to be long enough). I feel
that's OK as long as they're in a box and outside the passenger cabin.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I witnessed most of the weekend 1st hand.Bill and the Crew did a great job
vaporizing the old ev record.I predicted the 8.3 (thats what got Bill in
trouble with my backend)but the 8.16 really opened my eyes! Jim H.did a great
job on
the motors but I think(after taking apart his baby myself)Bill needs to bring
him along as part of the crew.The motor cases are still intact BUT!!!
Watching all the bikes this past weekend the Killacycle made the most smooth
qt.mi.runs of any of them! Scott did a great job!
Dennis Berube </HTML>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Mark,
At one time, I use those rubber straps, that truckers use to tie down tarps
or equipment. Instead of one strap for each battery, I had one large strap
go over a whole roll of batteries that the ends clip on the bottom of the
battery rack.
To use these straps, you will need to have a lot of end room to fasten the
end of the straps with clearance for your hand. I think today, there is
some type of tension tool that can be use on these straps in tight spaces.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 6:16 AM
Subject: Auto Watering of Ni-Cads
> Hi,
>
> In looking at the Safdt STM5-180 manual for my batteries, it appears that
> the exit on the last tube should dribble in a bucket (for negative
> pressure
> syphoning). Another EV'er mentioned that if it's pumped from the source
> tank at the head end then the exit tube can be routed back into the source
> tank. Would this work or cause overfill?
>
> Also I was thinking of using 2 tie-down ratchet straps per battery instead
> of the usual allthread & bar across the top. Can anyone recommend a good
> tie down for batteries that doesn't corrode and goes on fairly quickly?
>
> have a renewable energy day,
> Mark
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Can't afford to quit your job? - Earn your AS, BS, or MS degree online in
> 1
> year.
> http://www.classesusa.com/clickcount.cfm?id=866145&goto=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.classesusa.com%2Ffeaturedschools%2Fonlinedegreesmp%2Fform-dyn1.html%3Fsplovr%3D866143
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.topmotorx.com/zp2000w-1.htm Seems too good to be true but I have
a simular scooter & the specs aren't far off. Lawrence Rhodes......
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> OK,
>
> One way to find out is build it, then measure the
> current.
>
> Another way to look at it:
> - athlete running
> - athlete bicycling
> Who goes faster with the same effort?
> All indicators are on the bicycle...
Hey all
Careful now Cor, same "drive motor" same piston style
drive, your've just added gearing. Now lets just add
peddles to the wheel (like the big tired old 1800's
type bikes and the runner probably would win.
Just something to think about.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
____________________________________________________________________________________
Need Mail bonding?
Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Another way to look at it:
- athlete running
- athlete bicycling
Who goes faster with the same effort?
All indicators are on the bicycle...
On a hard-packed surface, grade less than maybe 15 or 20% - bicycle. In
grass, soft snow, or mud - or going up a steep grade - running or walking.
At least that's me, although I am not an athlete.
-Dale
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike you slipped
Also remember anything added to the bike proposed to
reduce flash over is an add in weight to the bike.
Remember they lowered the weight factor by 55 lbs (and
65 lbs if you count driver weight loss)before this
race. And to maintain CO2 or NOS or vacuum would add
weight. It would take a 25 to 30 lb bottle of any gas
to keep it neutral atmosphere during a run. Also they
would need one for each race.
Dummy question time:
The Advancing the motors. If they get advanced too far
won't that lower the initial starting torque? And by
lowering the torque will that not kill the 60 ft
times?
A EV dummy suggestion: Use variable timing while going
down the track. Have a solenoid adjust the timing as
it moves from Series to parallel. That way you have
good torque all the way down the track. Again only a
thought. May want to ask Denise Berube how well that
would work before jumping into it. I saw a motorized
method he has but I believe it is a manual adjustment
from a panel in the cockpit. Nor did I ever see him
adjust it in the couple runs I saw him run. And as
fast as these vehicle go I suspect there is no time to
adjust by hand when going down the track.
Bill you and your Crew did great. Congratulations on
breaking records twice this weekend. First on
Saturday then on Sunday. Sorry I missed Sunday now.
But that history for you. Your either part of it or
you read about it.
--- Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hey Jim,
> Here's another idea but we'll keep this off the list
> and between you and me for now ;-P
>
> How about sealing off the whole motor and drawing a
> vacuum down on it. Kinda like a KiloVac contactor.
> No air to ionize.
> Although you'll have to beef up the external cooling
> with either fins or as James mentioned CO2 injectors
> (inside or outside).
> The CO2 cooling idea was one I had earlier and I
> just had the idea yesterday about blowing it over
> the brushes to prevent arcing.
> That crazy James though, your evil twin and motor
> mind reader from down under is stealing my ideas ;-P
>
> A CO2 show at the end of the run though might give
> the crowd a gasp and to add to Lee's "we meant to do
> that look".
>
> Mike
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Behalf Of Jim Husted
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 8:51 PM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: Re: KillaCycle Update
> >
> >
> >
> > --- James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > G'day Jim, All
> > >
> > > Hey Jim, from the photos it looks as though they
> may
> > > have taken the arc out
> > > along the corners of the brush holders, got a
> plan
> > > 'b' for beefing up the
> > > insulation rating of the holders?
> >
> > Hey James, all
> >
> > I'm actually hungry to get my eyeballs on them so
> I
> > can see what, where, how. There were two full
> motors
> > and then a comm plate I'd done. I believe only
> two of
> > the plates had the Nomex guards. Bill suggested
> we
> > increase the advancement on the brushes which I
> also
> > feel would be benificial. I'm also thinking about
> > reversing the side the springs sit on the holders.
> > I've got lots on my plate and it becomes what can
> > actually be done this season as "it" races by at
> what
> > feel like record time for me, lol.
> >
> > Although it looks bad I'm hoping most is just soot
> and
> > she'll shine right back up 8^) Being The leads
> have
> > been made already and I doubt there is to much
> damage
> > there the plate repair is a fairly quick repair.
> >
> > > Seriously though, it looks from the comm photo
> as
> > > though they got a
> > > brush-to-brush event, the even-ness of the
> damage
> > > seems to be a result of
> > > your hard work and care - there wasn't anywhere
> for
> > > the arc plasma to carry
> > > to, except the opposite brush (applause for the
> > > GMBitW - Greatest Motor
> > > Builder in the World).
> >
> > Thanks James, man I try 8^)
> > I've really only seen just a few of these super
> volted
> > motor flashovers so far. Really I'm in uncharted
> > waters here so this failure will inable me to
> glean
> > new info as I babystep my way like I did 25 years
> ago
> > in the lift business. Hell if I work hard I might
> be
> > able to build a good EV motor by the time I die,
> LMAO!
> >
> > > You'll need some ceramic arc guards to survive
> > > something like that - I
> > > don't see the little 'flag' of Nomex doing more
> than
> > > add to the soot as an
> > > event like that approaches!
> >
> > Most of the stuff I get requests for are lets say
> for
> > the working guy 8^) Let's just say if I hit the
> lotto
> > I'd have some serious fun 8^D
> >
> > > Here is a challenge for you, Jim - a ceramic arc
> > > chute, with gas ports that
> > > they can blow CO2 down against the comm and out
> > > under the end of the arc
> > > chute - chill the comm and blow away any
> starting
> > > arc? Another hundred
> > > volts at least! The biggest challenge would be
> > > getting it in there with all
> > > that other "stuff"! Reckon you can do it?
> > >
> > > Can the GMBitW continue to improve his Xtreem
> duty
> > > motors? Staaay tuuned
> > > race faanss...
> >
> > Honestly, it pisses me off when my motors arc, I
> know
> > it's anal but it does. I guess I worry about a
> > non-EV'er seeing it and thinking this is your
> average
> > daily driver issue.
> >
> > Then I step back and look at the fact that Bills
> > pulling what 100 to 125 HP out of a L91, and then
> I
> > get all gushy inside again 8^) He might EVen be
> close
> > to 1 1/2 HP per pound of motor. Hows that rate
> vs. an
> > ICE?
> > The funny thing is if you had told me two of these
> > motors would drive a 8.16, 155 MPH run I'd have
> > laughed in your face 2 years ago. I'm sitting
> here
> > wondering what I'll find funny 2 years from now
> 8^)
> >
> > Anyway here's some of my madass ideas. Hinting at
> > Rods email I also had written Lee and Jeff their
> > thoughts on injecting an inert gas or other
> options.
> > I thought a small 7oz paintball gun cylider could
> > shoot a little EV NOS into the motor. I got
> varied
> > responces, lol.
> > Although Lee thought a nice neon glow at the end
> might
> > have that we meant to do that look, hehe.
> >
> > Attaching big ass lightning rods on the sides of
> the
> > holders is another idea I've had, as is making a
> non
> > conductive holder like you mention. Unless the
> holder
> > was really close to the comm I believe the arc
> will
> > just find the brush. In fact some of the evidence
> > I've seen points to the brushes being the first
> arc
> > contact and then it burns outward from the bare
> metal
> > inside the holder.
> >
> > I really do think some added brush advancement
> will
> > help, see if I can find the sweet spot for that
> > marko's "It just loves it on the freeways"
> technical
> > data on his ajustable brush ring, good help is so
> hard
> > to find, lol.
> >
> > I'll be sure to grab pics and report back my
> findings
> > and I guess try harder next time 8^)
> >
> > Cya
> > Jim Husted
> > Hi-Torque Electric
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> > Get your own web address.
> > Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
> > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL
> >
> >
>
=== message truncated ===
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