EV Digest 6638
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) EV Converter Needed in san Francisco
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Who's the guy in Vegas
by "Mark Grasser" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) EV trucks
by "Miller, John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Charging lithium-ion batts
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Charging lithium-ion batts
by Marcin Ciosek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: KillaCycle Update
by "Eidson, Mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: EV trucks
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) A Tale of Two Currents
by Bill Dennis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Charging lithium-ion batts
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: EV trucks
by "Miller, John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Altair has Forbes...fooled?
by jessielectric <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Li-Ion charging (was: KillaCycle Update)
by Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: A Tale of Two Currents
by Michael Barkley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: A Tale of Two Currents
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: KillaCycle Update
by "Eidson, Mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Yet another inexpensive battery monitor - RC Electronics
by "Glenn Meader" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Li-Ion charging (was: KillaCycle Update)
by "Eidson, Mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: KillaCycle Update
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Regenerative Clamper
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Arc Flash & Ark Blast Warning !!!!!
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Regenerative Clamper
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Charging lithium-ion batts
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: [EV] 357 MPH!!!!!!!!! an' Stuff
by "Randy Burleson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: KillaCycle Update
by "Randy Burleson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Miles Automotive $30 000 sedan
by "Michael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: EV trucks
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: A Tale of Two Currents
by Frank John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Yet another inexpensive battery monitor - RC Electronics
by Michael Barkley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Basic rectification question
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Raptor 600 throttle sensor wiring
by "Andrew A." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) Re: walking more efficient than rolling ? .. was Re: Bob Schnevei
s' Walking Electric Chariot
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
32) RE: KillaCycle Update
by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
33) Sherry Boschert you go girl. A whole lotta time on Science Friday.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I just received this request this morning. Anyone know of someone in this
are that could do this?
Roderick Wilde
EV Parts, Inc.
www.evparts.com
Name (Company Name): Michael Ford
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hi I live in the San Francisco area and was wondering if you knew any
mechanics that could do an electric conversion for me.
Thanks!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Building / converting EVs?
I bought some parts from him a year or so ago. I am going to be in Vegas for
3 days this coming week. Thought maybe I'd stop by.
Mark Grasser
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've noticed quite a few S-10s that have been converted to an EV. Almost
all of the EV Rangers I've seen have been factory built. Is there a
reason that I haven't seen any S-10 Blazer conversions or Ranger/Bronco
II conversions?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Uh that is for the cobolt chemistry only, right?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't know what exactly is you question about.
But it doesn't matter if cell is cobalt, manganese, NCM, FePO4 you need to
follow special charging algorithm. Different lithium chemistries are more or
less vulnerable for overcharging.
Marcin
On Friday 06 of April 2007 17:57:31 Jeff Shanab wrote:
> Uh that is for the cobolt chemistry only, right?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Do the A123 batteries have special charging requirements? Are balancers
required? Individual cell monitoring and control? me
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bill Dube
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 11:04 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: KillaCycle Update
Let us get back to reality for a moment, please.
The Zilla holds the motor current at 2000 amps until it goes 100% duty
cycle and simply connects the motors to the battery.
Simultaneously, it limits the battery current to 1575 amps. To ensure
that we don't inadvertently go beyond the max power point, the minimum
battery voltage is set to 1/2 the open circuit battery voltage.
We run two small motors instead of one large motor for two reasons.
The rotational inertia of the two small armatures is less than that of
one large armature. Also, two motors allow us to configure for
series/parallel operation that effectively doubles the dynamic range of
the controller.
Bill Dube'
At 10:15 PM 4/5/2007, you wrote:
>>You can see some graphs I posted at
>>http://home.gci.net/~saintbernard/ to see > the relationships as RPM's
rise.
>
>Let's say for example we had a semi-truck filled up to 80,000 lbs with
>A123 packs paralleled in it to the point any volts/amps you wanted
>could be obtained. What would be the fastest(1/4mile) motor(s)
>combination when battery sag/limitations no longer existed(forget about
>the weight/aero for a moment and just consider having a really
>powerful, no limits pack)?
>
>In the 1950's(possibly 1960's), there was a time when gasoline powered
>drag cars used 2 or 4 motors. Today, any number down to 4 secs can be
>ran using just one motor.
>
>Tractor pullers still use multiple motors.
>
>How can one motor beat multiple motors in this type of application?
>
>http://youtube.com/watch?v=MtUB1yI035g
>http://youtube.com/watch?v=GrpXK7NOa9s
>
>Certain types of boats might be in the same situation(single motor
>unable to beat multiple motors)?
>
>What I'm getting at is electric motors seem to be in a 1950's ice car
>and current tractor pull type situation in that it seems to require
>multiple motors be used to get the desired result. What keeps a single
>motor from being "enough"? Will one motor ever be able to out perform
>multiple motors?
>
>After KillaCycle runs 7's on two motors; how fast could it run on 3 or
>4 motors? Is there a single motor combination that could be faster
>then multiple?
>
>Coming from the ICE world, I just can't figure it out. How is more
>better when the same is not true in a different application?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You want your lead-acid batteries outside the passenger compartment, an
SUV would make it harder to do that, and you can't afford the weight of
passengers anyway with 1500lbs of lead, so a pickup is good enough.
IMNSHO as always.
Jack
Miller, John wrote:
I've noticed quite a few S-10s that have been converted to an EV. Almost
all of the EV Rangers I've seen have been factory built. Is there a
reason that I haven't seen any S-10 Blazer conversions or Ranger/Bronco
II conversions?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here's something that's puzzled me about charging from solar panels, but
the same question could apply to DC-DC converters in parallel charging
the same battery, too. What happens if the output voltage from one of
the units is slightly higher than the other? In the solar panel
instance, each panel would have an output diode on its positive lead, so
that current couldn't flow back into the panel. If one panel has a
higher output voltage than the other, does current stop flowing from the
lower voltage panel, so that you're effectively charging from only one
panel at a time and wasting the second panel?
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Shanab wrote:
Uh that is for the cobolt chemistry only, right?
I suppose you speak about my message indicating 4,2V so let me precise more:
It's for all 3.7V nominal lithium cells
Lithium phosphate ones have a 3,2V nominal and must be charged to 3,8V
maximum
Cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait du volant, quel carburant choisiriez-vous
?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marcin Ciosek" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 6:10 PM
Subject: Re: Charging lithium-ion batts
I don't know what exactly is you question about.
But it doesn't matter if cell is cobalt, manganese, NCM, FePO4 you need to
follow special charging algorithm. Different lithium chemistries are more
or
less vulnerable for overcharging.
Marcin
On Friday 06 of April 2007 17:57:31 Jeff Shanab wrote:
Uh that is for the cobolt chemistry only, right?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I understand that lead-acid batteries need to be kept out of passenger
ventilation areas. Do all batteries need to be kept out of passenger
areas? The batteries for the Escape (almost EV) are in the floor of the
cargo area with a vent out the side window. I was thinking of doing
something similar with my Bronco II and sealing and venting any
batteries in the cargo area away from passenger ventilation.
You want your lead-acid batteries outside the passenger compartment, an
SUV would make it harder to do that, and you can't afford the weight of
passengers anyway with 1500lbs of lead, so a pickup is good enough.
IMNSHO as always.
Jack
Miller, John wrote:
> I've noticed quite a few S-10s that have been converted to an EV.
Almost
> all of the EV Rangers I've seen have been factory built. Is there a
> reason that I haven't seen any S-10 Blazer conversions or
Ranger/Bronco
> II conversions?
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
As suspicious as the activities of Altair and the nanotech sector as a whole
are, at least Forbes isn't writing off Altair the way it was in the past:
http://www.forbes.com/2007/04/05/altair-nano-alcoa-pf-ii-in_jw_0405soapbox_inl.html?partner=email
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 10:19 AM 4/6/2007, you wrote:
Do the A123 batteries have special charging requirements? Are balancers
required? Individual cell monitoring and control? me
Yes.
You can't overcharge Li-Ion cells without doing some degree of
damage, so you must have some sort of electronic balancing to make up
for differences in state of charge due to variation in self-discharge
and variations in charge efficiency.
In other chemistries like lead-acid and ni-cad, they just
overcharge the cells to force them all to equal state of charge, so
no electronics is needed.
Since the A123 Systems cells won't catch fire if you do
something nasty, and they have a very large temperature range, you
don't have to be quite so vigilant about monitoring temperature as
you would with more ordinary Li_Ion cells.
With typical laptop Li-Ion cells, if you were to short
circuit one, or allow one to go to high temperature, you would likely
get a fire that you can't physically extinguish. This is because the
cell chemistry in these older type Li-Ion cells provides oxygen and
fuel once the heating has occurred, making it pretty much impossible
to put out the fire. It has everything it needs to burn by itself,
kind of like C4.
This added safety is a big selling point for A123 Systems cells.
Bill Dube
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bill Dube
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 11:04 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: KillaCycle Update
Let us get back to reality for a moment, please.
The Zilla holds the motor current at 2000 amps until it goes 100% duty
cycle and simply connects the motors to the battery.
Simultaneously, it limits the battery current to 1575 amps. To ensure
that we don't inadvertently go beyond the max power point, the minimum
battery voltage is set to 1/2 the open circuit battery voltage.
We run two small motors instead of one large motor for two reasons.
The rotational inertia of the two small armatures is less than that of
one large armature. Also, two motors allow us to configure for
series/parallel operation that effectively doubles the dynamic range of
the controller.
Bill Dube'
At 10:15 PM 4/5/2007, you wrote:
>>You can see some graphs I posted at
>>http://home.gci.net/~saintbernard/ to see > the relationships as RPM's
rise.
>
>Let's say for example we had a semi-truck filled up to 80,000 lbs with
>A123 packs paralleled in it to the point any volts/amps you wanted
>could be obtained. What would be the fastest(1/4mile) motor(s)
>combination when battery sag/limitations no longer existed(forget about
>the weight/aero for a moment and just consider having a really
>powerful, no limits pack)?
>
>In the 1950's(possibly 1960's), there was a time when gasoline powered
>drag cars used 2 or 4 motors. Today, any number down to 4 secs can be
>ran using just one motor.
>
>Tractor pullers still use multiple motors.
>
>How can one motor beat multiple motors in this type of application?
>
>http://youtube.com/watch?v=MtUB1yI035g
>http://youtube.com/watch?v=GrpXK7NOa9s
>
>Certain types of boats might be in the same situation(single motor
>unable to beat multiple motors)?
>
>What I'm getting at is electric motors seem to be in a 1950's ice car
>and current tractor pull type situation in that it seems to require
>multiple motors be used to get the desired result. What keeps a single
>motor from being "enough"? Will one motor ever be able to out perform
>multiple motors?
>
>After KillaCycle runs 7's on two motors; how fast could it run on 3 or
>4 motors? Is there a single motor combination that could be faster
>then multiple?
>
>Coming from the ICE world, I just can't figure it out. How is more
>better when the same is not true in a different application?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill, I certainly hope this is not the case, because that's exactly how my
solar panels are wired My wind generator is also wired like this....
Bill Dennis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Here's something that's puzzled me
about charging from solar panels, but
the same question could apply to DC-DC converters in parallel charging
the same battery, too. What happens if the output voltage from one of
the units is slightly higher than the other? In the solar panel
instance, each panel would have an output diode on its positive lead, so
that current couldn't flow back into the panel. If one panel has a
higher output voltage than the other, does current stop flowing from the
lower voltage panel, so that you're effectively charging from only one
panel at a time and wasting the second panel?
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
Michael Barkley
"You might be a REDNECK, if it ain't ELECTRIC"
www.texomaev.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Does voltage change or just current from solar panels?
Since solar panels photovoltaics are solid state, the voltage may be
constant and fixed and only the current changes.
Not positive about this but it might be true.
On Fri, 6 Apr 2007 9:43 am, Bill Dennis wrote:
Here's something that's puzzled me about charging from solar panels,
but the same question could apply to DC-DC converters in parallel
charging the same battery, too. What happens if the output voltage
from one of the units is slightly higher than the other? In the solar
panel instance, each panel would have an output diode on its positive
lead, so that current couldn't flow back into the panel. If one panel
has a higher output voltage than the other, does current stop flowing
from the lower voltage panel, so that you're effectively charging from
only one panel at a time and wasting the second panel?
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am surprised to see that the battery voltage on the graphs is actually
less than the motor voltage even when the duty cycle is 100% and the
current is over 750A. Are there different scales for these voltages?
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mike Willmon
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 9:23 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: KillaCycle Update
Those are maximum set point limits. Even though the voltage max
setpoint is 170V, the averaged voltage the Zilla provides starts out low
enough to keep the current at its maximum set point. As the RPM's rise
and the current demand for that voltage decreases and so the voltage is
allowed to rise to keep the current at its set point.
You can see some graphs I posted at http://home.gci.net/~saintbernard/
to see the relationships as RPM's rise.
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
> Ryan Stotts wrote
>
> The situation with the Zilla right now is the motor voltage is being
> set at a fixed number(170?). The whole way down the track, 170 with
> the amps capped off at 900 or 1000(why?).
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here's another inexpensive battery monitor $59 incl shipping
http://www.rc-electronics-usa.com/ammeters/rv-battery-monitor.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I guess I was interested in what you are using on KillaCycle for
charging and balancing? me
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bill Dube
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 10:10 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Li-Ion charging (was: KillaCycle Update)
At 10:19 AM 4/6/2007, you wrote:
>Do the A123 batteries have special charging requirements? Are
>balancers required? Individual cell monitoring and control? me
Yes.
You can't overcharge Li-Ion cells without doing some degree of damage,
so you must have some sort of electronic balancing to make up for
differences in state of charge due to variation in self-discharge and
variations in charge efficiency.
In other chemistries like lead-acid and ni-cad, they just
overcharge the cells to force them all to equal state of charge, so no
electronics is needed.
Since the A123 Systems cells won't catch fire if you do
something nasty, and they have a very large temperature range, you don't
have to be quite so vigilant about monitoring temperature as you would
with more ordinary Li_Ion cells.
With typical laptop Li-Ion cells, if you were to short circuit
one, or allow one to go to high temperature, you would likely get a fire
that you can't physically extinguish. This is because the cell chemistry
in these older type Li-Ion cells provides oxygen and fuel once the
heating has occurred, making it pretty much impossible to put out the
fire. It has everything it needs to burn by itself, kind of like C4.
This added safety is a big selling point for A123 Systems
cells.
Bill Dube
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>Behalf Of Bill Dube
>Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 11:04 PM
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: KillaCycle Update
>
>Let us get back to reality for a moment, please.
>
>The Zilla holds the motor current at 2000 amps until it goes 100% duty
>cycle and simply connects the motors to the battery.
>Simultaneously, it limits the battery current to 1575 amps. To ensure
>that we don't inadvertently go beyond the max power point, the minimum
>battery voltage is set to 1/2 the open circuit battery voltage.
>
>We run two small motors instead of one large motor for two reasons.
>The rotational inertia of the two small armatures is less than that of
>one large armature. Also, two motors allow us to configure for
>series/parallel operation that effectively doubles the dynamic range of
>the controller.
>
>Bill Dube'
>
>
>At 10:15 PM 4/5/2007, you wrote:
> >>You can see some graphs I posted at
> >>http://home.gci.net/~saintbernard/ to see > the relationships as
> >>RPM's
>rise.
> >
> >Let's say for example we had a semi-truck filled up to 80,000 lbs
> >with
> >A123 packs paralleled in it to the point any volts/amps you wanted
> >could be obtained. What would be the fastest(1/4mile) motor(s)
> >combination when battery sag/limitations no longer existed(forget
> >about
>
> >the weight/aero for a moment and just consider having a really
> >powerful, no limits pack)?
> >
> >In the 1950's(possibly 1960's), there was a time when gasoline
> >powered drag cars used 2 or 4 motors. Today, any number down to 4
> >secs can be ran using just one motor.
> >
> >Tractor pullers still use multiple motors.
> >
> >How can one motor beat multiple motors in this type of application?
> >
> >http://youtube.com/watch?v=MtUB1yI035g
> >http://youtube.com/watch?v=GrpXK7NOa9s
> >
> >Certain types of boats might be in the same situation(single motor
> >unable to beat multiple motors)?
> >
> >What I'm getting at is electric motors seem to be in a 1950's ice car
> >and current tractor pull type situation in that it seems to require
> >multiple motors be used to get the desired result. What keeps a
> >single
>
> >motor from being "enough"? Will one motor ever be able to out
> >perform multiple motors?
> >
> >After KillaCycle runs 7's on two motors; how fast could it run on 3
> >or
> >4 motors? Is there a single motor combination that could be faster
> >then multiple?
> >
> >Coming from the ICE world, I just can't figure it out. How is more
> >better when the same is not true in a different application?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Notice the disclaimer on the first page.....
"Also, the motor voltages indicated on the graphs are 53% higher than actual."
On Fri, 6 Apr 2007 10:21:12 -0700, "Eidson, Mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I am surprised to see that the battery voltage on the graphs is actually
> less than the motor voltage even when the duty cycle is 100% and the
> current is over 750A. Are there different scales for these voltages?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Mike Willmon
> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 9:23 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: KillaCycle Update
>
> Those are maximum set point limits. Even though the voltage max
> setpoint is 170V, the averaged voltage the Zilla provides starts out low
> enough to keep the current at its maximum set point. As the RPM's rise
> and the current demand for that voltage decreases and so the voltage is
> allowed to rise to keep the current at its set point.
>
> You can see some graphs I posted at http://home.gci.net/~saintbernard/
> to see the relationships as RPM's rise.
>
> Mike,
> Anchorage, Ak.
>
>> Ryan Stotts wrote
>>
>> The situation with the Zilla right now is the motor voltage is being
>> set at a fixed number(170?). The whole way down the track, 170 with
>> the amps capped off at 900 or 1000(why?).
>>
>>
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
I-5, Blossvale NY
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Because they would double the BOM cost of a Reg.. and The Regs are already
getting pretty spendy.
Plus.. those that have done Regen Regs.. really didn't get it right, The
effect was a lossy Dissapative reg that ran the batteries down while trying
to save some watts.
Good idea, not implimented right.
Plus Regen regs by definition would need a high voltage buss to each Reg. So
you have to condsider that you now have full pack voltages on EVERY reg, and
the short circuit paths are right inside your device.
Nice idea.... spendy to make and impliment.
There are Mk3 Sheer version Regs that do boost up the battery to the pack
voltages.. I am not sure where they are in development.
I long ago decided that the regen regs were not where a cost effective
design would start from.
Rich Rudman
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Manzanita Micro
360-297-7383,
Cell 360-620-6266
Production shop 360-297-1660
FAX at Metal shop 1-360-297-3311
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Sharpe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 2:47 PM
Subject: Regenerative Clamper
> Having read about dissipative clampers why not a regenerative design? This
could take the form of a galvanically isolated "up" converter that returns
energy to the source when the required voltage trigger point is reached. For
many of us this would be a number of identical light weight 12V or 6V
devices rated at about 150 Watts each permanently installed across each
battery. With efficiencies approaching 80% only 30W would be lost at worst
case for each device in operation. A built-in LED would indicate which
converter was working. Perhaps we could commission a design & take orders to
make it worth the designers time. Moving further the same device could have
a facility to charge from the grid and it becomes a charger but then you
dont need the "up" converter do you?
> David
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
Car batteries traditionally don't have fuses...
John G. Lussmyer wrote:
A battery fuse would need to handle the current needed for the Starter.
Even on tiny little 4 banger engines, that is likely to be 100A bursts.
Any fuse that can survive that can easily survive a 20A short in the
car wiring - which is plenty enough to start a fire. And since most car
wiring is purposely undersized, it will burn before that big fuse blows.
That's why cars have something called a "Fuse Box". You may have heard
of it.
Of course cars have fuses for the smaller wiring. I was referring to the
high-current starter (and sometimes alternator) circuits that have no fuses.
Slow-blow fuses suitable for starting motors are very common in many
other fields. You'll find them in fork lifts and all sorts of industrial
equipment, both AC and DC. The 400 amp fuses I'm using in my EV's
battery pack are intended for exactly that purpose.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David Sharpe wrote:
Having read about dissipative clampers why not a regenerative design?
This could take the form of a galvanically isolated "up" converter that
returns energy to the source when the required voltage trigger point
is reached. For many of us this would be a number of identical light
weight 12V or 6V devices...
This is essentially what the Powercheq does. It is a 12v-to-12v 20 watt
DC/DC converter. You connect one to each pair of batteries. When one
battery's voltage is higher than the other, it turns on, and pushes
power from the higher to the lower battery. They cost about $40 each.
You could also build such a device with either the input or output side
at full pack voltage. It either transfers power from the pack as a whole
to the low battery; or from the high battery to the pack as a whole.
If the high voltage side could accept AC as well as DC, it becomes a
modular charger setup.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tim Gamber wrote:
Hi guys,
I was just wondering if its possible to charge lithium ion batts with a
normal lead acid charger. Like say if i had about 13 volts worth or
lithiumion batts could i charge them with a regular lead acid charger
that puts out about 14 or 15 volts. Or would you need a charger like the
manzanita micro so you could adjust its voltage?
You can charge pretty much any battery with any charger with
approximately the right voltage. But... it may not charge it safely or
correctly!
The danger with lithium ion batteries is that they have an absolute
maximum voltage that you must not exceed. If you do, they are destroyed
and can burn, or explode!
Most lead-acid battery chargers do not have any maximum voltage limiter.
The battery is more tolerant of overcharging; it just gasses and you
shorten its life.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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> With the Best Govt. Oil Money can Buy, it is VERY unlikely
> you will see it here. Sigh! Amtrak is getting cut back in
> funding while BILLIONS are dumped into the Highwaymen's
> coffers! The rest of the loose change goes in to Aviation...
Bob, I *dig* the train stuff... that said, with the number of rail miles
we have in the US versus Japan and Europe, what's the true cost? Is it
oil, government, or practical cost that's killing high-speed rail?
Probably best to reply off-list, unless you can work in how high-speed
electric rail may become the long legs for our short range EVs, by
adding rail car carriers...
<effort to pull this back on-topic>
Is it even remotely possible to charge an EV off that third rail?
Randii
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> Uh, guys, Everything I have read says that it
> requires air with moisture to form the low
> friction coating on the commutator. It is
> constantly wearing off and being rebuilt as
> we run them.
Perhaps just use these C02, N20, or vacuum blasts for a quarter mile at
a time, down the track, and run open to the air the rest of the time?
Even a dedicated track bike like KillaCycle needs to make the round trip
back from the end of the strip...
Randii (visualizing KillaCycle with glee as an around town commuter)
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On Thu, April 5, 2007 10:05 am, Tom Watson wrote:
> Kert
> Thats real nice except for the exaust pipe and muffler hanging from
> the bottom!!! check the pictures Tom
> ----------------------
> I think most of you read ABG anyway but here goes:
> http://www.autobloggreen.com/category/miles-automotive/
Which pictures? The ones I see on this page don't show the rear (or
bottom) of the car. thnx.
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There are a number of Blazers in the EV Album, but no Broncos I could
find.
<http://www.evalbum.com/>
If you haven't seen it yet, you better click on over ASAP! One of our
best resources.
On Apr 6, 2007, at 9:38 AM, Miller, John wrote:
I've noticed quite a few S-10s that have been converted to an EV.
Almost
all of the EV Rangers I've seen have been factory built. Is there a
reason that I haven't seen any S-10 Blazer conversions or Ranger/Bronco
II conversions?
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
http://www.gdunge.com/
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Without a controller the batteries will pull PV panel output down to battery
level. That's one reason that a MPPT (maximum power point tracking) controller
does such a great charging job; it down-converts excess voltage into extra
current. Outback says that their MX60 MPPT controller tends to average panel
voltages (at least that's the way I remember it).
Not sure about your EV batteries and DC converter charging question...
----- Original Message ----
From: Bill Dennis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, April 6, 2007 8:39:16 AM
Subject: A Tale of Two Currents
Here's something that's puzzled me about charging from solar panels, but
the same question could apply to DC-DC converters in parallel charging
the same battery, too. What happens if the output voltage from one of
the units is slightly higher than the other? In the solar panel
instance, each panel would have an output diode on its positive lead, so
that current couldn't flow back into the panel. If one panel has a
higher output voltage than the other, does current stop flowing from the
lower voltage panel, so that you're effectively charging from only one
panel at a time and wasting the second panel?
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
____________________________________________________________________________________
Don't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast
with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut.
http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather
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I just ordered this battery monitor.
www.paktrakr.com
I ordered it with the current sensor, that will measure up to 300amps.
Price, is aprox $ 150 for the basic unit, and an additional $50 for the current
sensor option. It monitors each battery in the pack, and is really feature
packed. I hope it will be the only dash item I'll need to put in the car,
other than a temperature monitor on the motor.
Glenn Meader <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Here's another inexpensive battery monitor $59 incl shipping
http://www.rc-electronics-usa.com/ammeters/rv-battery-monitor.html
Michael Barkley
"You might be a REDNECK, if it ain't ELECTRIC"
www.texomaev.com
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Frank John wrote:
Lee, just wanted to say "thanks" for all your valuable input.
You're most welcome!
You've given me a couple of good ideas to pursue and all this
is helping me learn more about motors.
If you'd like to experiment with an induction generator, get any common
induction motor, a bridge rectifier, and a selection of AC rated motor
"run" capacitors (like 1uf, 2uf, 5uf, 10uf, and 20uf). Set up a way to
spin the motor at an adjustable speed; for example, with another
induction motor with a belt and variable speed pulleys between them, or
a fan speed controller. You need to be able to spin the motor a few
hundred rpm faster than its nameplate rated speed (i.e. 3750 rpm for a
3450 rpm rated motor).
You can find the optimum capacitance by trial and error. Pick the amount
that lets you generate a current about equal to the motor's nameplate
rated value.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Hi everyone,
I noticed that the inductive throttle sensor for my
Raptor 600 controller has three wires connected to it
(black, white, and a bare wire) whereas the schematic
only shows two. I was wondering if the third wire was
maybe a shield or ground wire? What do I wire it to?
Thanks!
Andrew
____________________________________________________________________________________
TV dinner still cooling?
Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.
http://tv.yahoo.com/
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Jim,
You're referring to a "penny farthing" style of velocipede. While they
had very poor acceleration (and deceleration!), they had pretty good top
speed on level (and downhill) ground, given the very high "gear" ratio.
They were generally considered unsafe because of their speed, inability
to stop well, and height. The first modern style bicycle was originally
marketed as the "safety bicycle."
Jim Husted wrote:
Hey all
Careful now Cor, same "drive motor" same piston style
drive, your've just added gearing. Now lets just add
peddles to the wheel (like the big tired old 1800's
type bikes and the runner probably would win.
Just something to think about.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
____________________________________________________________________________________
Need Mail bonding?
Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396546091
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I thought it was odd too, to see the graph like this. Then I found out the
motor voltage values coming out of the Zilla were not calibrated. The battery
voltages are accurate however. So, if you see the duty cycle at 100% then you
know the motor volts is the same as the indicated battery volts. I've meant to
go and post process the data and re plot it, but since I didn't know when I'd
get to it I put the disclaimer up.
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Friday, April 6, 2007 9:57 am
Subject: RE: KillaCycle Update
To: [email protected]
>
> Notice the disclaimer on the first page.....
>
> "Also, the motor voltages indicated on the graphs are 53% higher
> than actual."
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, 6 Apr 2007 10:21:12 -0700, "Eidson, Mark"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I am surprised to see that the battery voltage on the graphs is
> actually> less than the motor voltage even when the duty cycle is
> 100% and the
> > current is over 750A. Are there different scales for these
> voltages?>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of Mike Willmon
> > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 9:23 PM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: RE: KillaCycle Update
> >
> > Those are maximum set point limits. Even though the voltage max
> > setpoint is 170V, the averaged voltage the Zilla provides starts
> out low
> > enough to keep the current at its maximum set point. As the
> RPM's rise
> > and the current demand for that voltage decreases and so the
> voltage is
> > allowed to rise to keep the current at its set point.
> >
> > You can see some graphs I posted at
> http://home.gci.net/~saintbernard/> to see the relationships as
> RPM's rise.
> >
> > Mike,
> > Anchorage, Ak.
> >
> >> Ryan Stotts wrote
> >>
> >> The situation with the Zilla right now is the motor voltage is
> being>> set at a fixed number(170?). The whole way down the
> track, 170 with
> >> the amps capped off at 900 or 1000(why?).
> >>
> >>
> --
> Stay Charged!
> Hump
> I-5, Blossvale NY
>
>
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The second hour of Science Friday was devoted to plugin vehicles, the x
prize & the Chevy Volt. Sherry & her adversary pointed out the problems
with the Volt, GM's previons record & then proceeded to defend their points
of view. Sherry pushed off most of the neg. viewpoints & I hope opened the
NPR listners minds to what really is happening out there. Thank God Ira
Flatow was sympathetic to Sherry letting her speak at length and asked good
questions especially when the EV bashers asked about exploding batteries he
asked how many sticks of dynamite were in a gallon of gasoline. The engineer
didn't know the answer but Ira did. Bravo Sherry Boschert. Lawrence
Rhodes....
This should be available on the web as they have an archeive/podcast......
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