EV Digest 6913

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) DIY turbines for extended range
        by Geopilot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: CutOff
        by "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) to quote the Beatles, "HELP"  Zilla problems
        by Matthew Milliron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) RE: AC Motor?
        by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: Clutch, Keepin' it.
        by "Jay Caplan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) EV parts ordered! - ?questions?
        by Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) RE: "Current" generation of Thundersky 
        by "Claudio Natoli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) EV parts ordered! - ?questions?
        by Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) RE: EV parts ordered! - ?questions?
        by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) RE: Wanted: Knife switch for battery disconnect [clarification]
        by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: EV parts ordered! - ?questions?
        by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: AC Motor?
        by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: AC Motor?
        by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: BB600 ni-cads, Re: What batteries to try next?
        by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) RE: AC =?UTF-8?B?TW90b3I/?=
        by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) RE: Clutch
        by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) RE: Adaptor?
        by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) RE: Adaptor?
        by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: EV parts ordered! - ?questions?
        by "Mark Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Plug-in Hybrids/Senate Bill S1617 and if you want to contact your 
        by "Beth Silverman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) RE: Plug-in Hybrids/Senate Bill S1617 and if you want to contact your 
        by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: Clutch, Keepin' it.
        by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Solectria Force Contactor?
        by "Dale Ulan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) RE: Engine parts to keep?
        by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 25) Google presses for 100 MPG vehicle
        by "Richard Acuti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) Re: Clutch, Keepin' it.
        by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message --- Anyone interested in the idea of buying a lightweight turbine for extending the range of their electric should subscribe to this list because they build their own from turbochargers and tell you all about how to do it.


--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Measure the voltage.

I'm not sure exactly what it is for EV's.  For PV systems I use around
12.0 to 12.4 volts as the lowest allowable voltage for a 12 volt
nominal battery.  But, when you are looking at a C0.2 rate instead of
a C40 rate, it might be lower????  There's guys on this list who know
better than me for this application.


On 6/18/07, Rob Hogenmiller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Is there a secret formula for figuring cutoff for a baterry (when you should
stop drawing power from it).

I have a normal lead acid battery.

Group 31 with around 1000 CCA.

I'm hoping to use this battery for my first home built EV project.

My sons four wheeler.

This is also a test message to see if my messages are going through.

God bless

Zeke Yewdall
Chief Electrical Engineer
Sunflower Solar, A NewPoint Energy Company
Cell: 720.352.2508
Office: 303.459.0177
FAX documents to: 720.269.1240

CoSEIA Certified
Certified BP Solar Installer
National Association of Home Builders

Quotable Quote

"In the dark of the moon, in flying snow,
in the dead of winter, war spreading,
families dying, the world in danger,
I walk the rocky hillside
sowing clover."

Wendell Berry

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
  I need help.  I have Zilla problems.  I hooked everything up and
took a ride.  Parked it in the garage and the next day it won't run. I
am getting an 1132 error code (controller did not communicate during
precharge).  Also I am getting a 17.5 volt short from the traction
pack to ground/body of the car.  I have traced it to the controller.
Is this normal?  Why won't the Hairball talk to the controller?  I was
sooo looking to go for a ride.

R. Matt Milliron
1981 Jet Electrica
My daughter named it, "Pikachu". It's yellow and black,
electric and contains Japanese parts, so I went with it.

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--- Begin Message --- Just keep your eyes out for a trashed power wheels. Usually they just have a dead battery, but sometimes might have a problem with a switch or something similar. You can usually find them very cheap if not free, and they work just like a simple EV so are good for learning on. My youngest is getting too big for hers, so if you were in my neck of the woods you could have it :-)


From: "Rob Hogenmiller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: "EV Discussion" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: AC Motor?
Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 21:58:09 -0500

Hi All,

I am new to the discussion list and hope to build many electric vehicles, Lord willing.

I recently purchased a 1999 E-bike.

And am hoping to build my 3 year old son a simple electric four wheeler.

I have AC motor off of a professional buffer for waxing cars and wondering what kind of equipment I would need to convert the DC power to AC to power it?

God bless

Like puzzles? Play free games & earn great prizes. Play Clink now. http://club.live.com/clink.aspx?icid=clink_hotmailtextlink2
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Once you take the clutch AND flywheel out and replace with a splined
coupler, they shift up and down like a dream - at least mine does. If you
still have any kind of clutch and/or flywheel in, you may find it hard to
understand. It is that rotational inertia of the flywheel and pressure
plate/clutch disk that makes it hard/slow to shift clutchless. Take all that
out and it just drops in and out of gear, synchros aren't stressed much by
your motor's spinning weight, little inertia there. Upshift is one second,
downshift is less than two seconds (without  speeding up the motor using the
gas pedal, faster if you master this) http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/727
The couplers are easy to make using the splined center of the clutch disk
welded into round bar stock, mill a keyway and/or set screw/pin for the
motor shaft. I've had this one both ways, clutchless/flywheelless is far far

This argument goes on and on, but I have never heard from anyone who set one
up without a flywheel/clutch, didn't like it, and added it all back. But
several people have liked them a lot without clutch and flywheel once they
set up a plain coupler and remove all that spinning weight. I'm not talking
about 150 HP and racing, just daily drivers.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 9:24 PM
Subject: Re: Clutch, Keepin' it.

> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Michael Wendell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 4:02 PM
> Subject: RE: Clutch
> >
> >> So heres the deal..If I bolt my Motor up to the shaft
> >> coming out of the Transmission.
> > ...
> >> I will no longer have a clutch.
> >> And to shift gears.. What ??
> >> I turn the motor speed down and just throw the
> >> stick shift into the next gear?
> >>
> >> Is that right
> >
> > pretty much exactly.
> >
> > 1. lift your foot off of the accelerator pedal, motor simply turns with
> > the
> > rotation of the car.
> >
> > 2. push stick shift out of gear, motor spins down to zero.
> >
> > 3. select new gear with stick shift, syncros in transmission spin up the
> > motor to the new speed of the transmission input shaft. these syncros
> > normally used to spin up the weight of the transmission's moving parts
> > the clucth, so you're putting alittle more stress on them since they're
> > now
> > spinning up the motor.
> >
> > 4. foot back on the accelerator. go zoom.
> >
> > as i hear though, it's definitely slower than shifting with a clutch.
> >
> > m.
> >
>   Hi EVerybody;
>    Yup, the above. Best argument for hanging on to the clutch! It's a pain
> in the ass to shift easily. Just keep the clutch in your motor linkup. You
> will thank yourself EVery time you just "Click" from gear to gear, like ya
> used to do in the car's ICE daze. But you wont HAVe to shift as often,
> though. Take off in second, stay there 'round town, do 3rd or forth for
> freeway running. Most trannies WON'T just shift into the gear ya want when
> standing, EVery time, you have to slip the clutch a bit to get the damn
> into gear. If this happens with a clutchless you have to spin the motor
> wait for it to wind down and it gronks when you put it in gear. One thing
> you MUST be EVer mindful going clutchless is no more quick shifts!
>     Youre miliage will vary<g>!
>     Bob
> >
> > -- 
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.9.0/852 - Release Date: 6/17/2007
> > 8:23 AM
> >
> >

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From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Clutch, Keepin' it.
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 08:16:30 -0600
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hello everyone,

It is a nightmare, to try to shift my super extra heavy duty industrial 
explosive proof transmission without a clutch.  The gears in this 
transmission are not bevel ground, but are flat ground.  Have to come to a 
complete stop to make a down shift, it even becomes harder to make a up 

The gear noise have increase so a person can here the EV coming from a block 

The edges of these gears are flaring over which make them  very sharp where 
it can cut you.

I will being changing out this transmission with a super extra heavy duty 
race type TH-400 which will be manual shift only without a torque converter 
using a manual value body.  A external pump is added so the transmission 
clutches are engage up at 0 rpm.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Wayland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 7:47 AM
Subject: Re: Clutch, Keepin' it.

> Hello to Jay and All,
> Time for the other side to this.
> Jay Caplan wrote:
> >Once you take the clutch AND flywheel out and replace with a splined
> >coupler, they shift up and down like a dream - at least mine does. 
> >Upshift is one second,
> >downshift is less than two seconds...
> >
> And you call this 'like a dream?' It's more like a nightmare to anyone
> who actually enjoys driving a stick shift. In a spirited and fun EV (not
> a drag racing EV) like my own Blue Meanie, losing a full second with the
> upshift from 2nd gear to 3rd, lowers its snappy 0-60 in ~ 6 seconds to
> more than 7 seconds...certainly no part of 'my dream' of having a fun
> EV. Going clutchless in such a fun EV pretty much amounts to castration.
> Call it sophomoric if you want, but also losing that outrageous rear
> tire squeal on that upshift from 2nd to 3rd when the clutch bites, at
> least in my little street hotrod, takes away part of the HUGE EV grin
> that I and all my passengers love about the car. When I take reporters
> out for a Blue Meanie spin, even just chirping the tires on the upshift
> never fails to widen that EV grin. Of course, power-shifting and really
> slamming them back in the seat has an even stronger effect :-) However,
> absent the kid in me and just driving it around as a transportation car
> is far more pleasant, far more refined with a smooth shifting clutch set
> up over the primitive and crude clutchless version.
> >
> >This argument goes on and on, but I have never heard from anyone who set 
> >one
> >up without a flywheel/clutch, didn't like it, and added it all back.
> >
> Well, I guess after you read this, you'll thankfully not be able to ever
> tell that tale again. You are now hearing from one who has done exactly
> that. I didn't like it at all, and I added it all back. The fun factor
> returned immediately to my lively little car.
> Yes, I experimented with the clutchless-flywheel-less thing in Blue
> Meanie. It was just like Jay says in regards to the extra time for
> upshifts and downshifts, but for me it was awful. You have to 'think'
> about the way you shift, you have to take your time and accommodate the
> car and wait for 'it' to allow you to shift, and it takes all the fun
> out of shifting. With the properly lightened and balanced flywheel and a
> strong high performance clutch setup, I no longer had to 'give
> instructions' on how to operate the tranny or how to wait the right
> amount of time to shift to anyone wanting to take the car for a spin.
> Freddie best summed this up:
> >Again I do not force
> >the gear change I allow the transmission to shift when it is ready.  As I
> >have told my wife, you just have to learn how to do this.  I am teaching 
> >her
> >how to drive the truck so that she can drive it to work.
> Wonderful...you have to teach someone how not to do the wrong thing for
> what is normally one of life's simple pleasures, shift a crisp manual
> tranny behind a fun power plant in a car you love. Please everyone,
> don't accept the mediocre results of going clutchless. These guys are
> giving bad advice if you truly enjoy driving with a manual tranny. On
> the other hand, if you don't enjoy driving and don't enjoy the fun that
> comes with a properly set up clutch, flywheel, and manual tranny, and if
> your EV perhaps is already lacking in fun factor, than go ahead and do
> it...it will add to the home brew effect for sure.
> See Ya.....John Wayland

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