EV Digest 6920
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Magnetic Shunts
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Last Call - Zilla 2k 300V or 348V WTB
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
3) Re: to quote the Beatles, "HELP" Zilla problems
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Wire 4/0
by "Marty Hewes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: speed controller
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Clutch, Keepin' it.
by "joe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Magnetic Shunts
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Does twisting matter?
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Wire 4/0
by "joe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Wire 4/0
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: questions about the prius and other electric cars
by "joe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Chargers?
by "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Google presses for 100 MPG vehicle
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Wire 4/0
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Zombie rises from the dead Siamese8 lives again
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: E-Porsche Suspension Question
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Wire 4/0
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
I was curious about the purpose of a magnetic shunt used in Lester Chargers
and in microwave ovens (that I convert to chargers). When converting a
uWave oven transformer to a charger, I find if I don't knock out the
magnetic shunt the output is lower, it seams like the magnetic shunt is just
waisting power. Is it for voltage or current regulation/limit? How can it
be set accurately?
Lester also uses one in their chargers and it appears that it's needed there
as part of the regulation but don't quite understand the physics since there
is already a tank circuit tuned to 60 hertz (for PFC). I put a 30uf 250vac
oil filled motor run cap in parallel with the uWave oven transformer primary
for PFC and rewind the secondary with #14 or #12 wire set for a split
battery pack two diode push-pull affair and the final current is set to C/40
at 2.58V per cell for floodees. The uP shut-off control is then set for
dv/dt=0 or .01V per cell per hour, stop using a MC68HC908QY4 and a P&E Micro
programmer. www.pemicro.com
Best Regards,
Mark
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--- Begin Message ---
Hey Matt,
I'm not saying that it couldn't be a motor problem,
but sitting for 17 years won't normally cause one. I
looked at your pictures and would suggest you try to
get to the motor from below before removing everything
above. Check cables to the motor and the S to A
copper strap. It looks like that is on the bottom and
could be suspect. Then, see if you can remove the
coverband and inspect the comm and brushes. I had one
case where the vehicle sat in a barn for years and
actually had a mouse nest in there and the little guys
had pissed all over the comm. Blow it out with clean
compressed air. Take some pictures and send to Jim.
Also check to see if any brush pigtails are touching
the case or coverband.
Good luck,
Jeff
--- Matthew Milliron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Jun 2007 21:30:28 -0500, you wrote:
>
> >
> > I need help. I have Zilla problems. I hooked
> everything up and
> >took a ride. Parked it in the garage and the next
> day it won't run. I
> >am getting an 1132 error code (controller did not
> communicate during
> >precharge). Also I am getting a 17.5 volt short
> from the traction
> >pack to ground/body of the car. I have traced it
> to the controller.
> >Is this normal? Why won't the Hairball talk to the
> controller.
>
> Did the right thing. Called tech support and
> asked for help. The
> short is in the motor. Should have expected
> something like this. 25
> year old parts that have been sitting for 17 years.
> Insult to injury
> I have to take everything out of the front of the
> car now. Bright
> note is that this is nothing as complicated as an
> ICE. Should have
> inspected the motor first. Have to see if Jim
> Husted has enough time
> to help walk me through this.
>
>
> R. Matt Milliron
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 1981 Jet Electrica
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/702
> My daughter named it, "Pikachu". It's yellow and
> black,
> electric and contains Japanese parts, so I went with
> it.
>
>
>
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lots of good info, but I'd think the battery links should be insulated for
their relative potential to ground? The insulation is rated for breakdown,
how much voltage the insulation may see from the conductor to whatever gets
next to it, which varies depending on where the link is in the pack. But
the last link will see nearly the whole pack voltage above ground,
especially during charging, no?
Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 8:09 AM
Subject: Re: Wire 4/0
Hello Phelps,
When buying multi-strand wire, make sure you get the right voltage rating.
This will be printed on the side of the wire. A welding supply company
will carry two voltage ratings, one is the leader feeder that are rated
for 300 volts and then the power leads rated for 600 volts.
Some auto parts stores that make up battery wires, they normally carry
the lower voltage in stock, but may have to order the higher voltage wire.
The auto type stranding is about 110 strands for a 2/0 cable.
Also there is different size of wire strands from very fine strands that
range from 200 to over 1000 strands for 4/0 wire.
Lets say your battery pack is a 250 volt pack, then you can get by with
300 volt cable. If you battery pack is over 300 volts, then your feeder
cables coming of the ends of the battery pack should be 600 volt rated.
The battery links could be rated at the 300 volt rate because the maximum
voltage difference between any two batteries in the pack is only 2, 6, or
12 volts.
I preferred to make my battery links with a 300 volt rated 2/0 that has
about 110 strands copper wire that has a thinner jacket. Also the larger
strands will not fracture as much as the fine strands.
I only use the 600 volt fine strand cable with a heavy jack for the feeder
runs from the battery pack.
I use a heavy heat shrink with adhesive which increases the cable link
diameter another 1/4 inch in diameter.
Roland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, if you put it all back together again, turn the switch on and
give the motor (or wheel if it's still connected with the belt) a big
push clockwise (the direction the wheel would turn if the scooter was
running) it should automatically turn on. Some scooters are easy to
start this way putting it on a bench and giving the wheel a couple
big pushes with your hand, others I've had to quickly roll the
scooter on the floor to make it get going.
I think the throttle is really an off/on throttle so when you pull
the throttle back that basically just keeps the scooter on. If you
let it go the timer will start counting and if it sees no activity
with the throttle, within a certain period of time, the controller
will turn off until you kick start it again.
For the kids it becomes second nature to them. They kick off, the
scooter starts, and they pull the throttle back to keep it going.
When they stop they learn they need to pull the throttle back within
a certain period of time to get it going again before it shuts off
and they need to kick start it again. The time they have is enough
time, plus a few seconds more, for them to look both ways before
crossing the street and they can use the throttle to get the scooter
going. But if they allow too much time to pass the scooter will need
to be kick started again.
So yes, all the functionality of this particular controller design
explains the intermittent use.
Chip
On Jun 20, 2007, at 9:16 AM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
From: "Rob Hogenmiller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: June 20, 2007 9:16:52 AM EDT
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: speed controller
Thank you, now it makes sense.
So if I hook it all back up and just give the motor a push start,
(I've got the throttle wide open as I bypassed the throttle to make
sure it wasn't the throttle). I basically have everything off the
scooter (all the wires) except the motor is still mounted for
testing purposes.
This explains the intermittent issue.
Thank you for all the suggestions too. Much appreciated.
God bless
----- Original Message ----- From: "Chip Gribben" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 8:01 AM
Subject: Re: speed controller
Hey Rob,
This is probably not the best scooter controller to use for your
project
The I-Zip controller only turns on after the kid kick starts or
rolls the scooter a few feet before the motor turns on. There is
also a time delay built-in where if the controller sees no
activity for several seconds it turns off then the kid needs to
kick start it again.
I think the throttle is an off/on type affair. I can't really
remember. It could be a hall-effect throttle. But once the kid
kick starts or rolls the scooter and it turns on they twist the
throttle back to get more speed. The brake has a built-in brake
inhibit function which turns the controller off when the brake is
applied. A twist of the throttle turns it on again. But you have
to do it within a certain period of time or it will shut off.
Pretty much a majority of the 100 watt motor scooters work this
way. The Razor E-100, Currie I-Zip and the small Zappy scooters
among others. They do this because these scooters are basically a
training scooter before the kids are big enough to use the full
throttle scooters so they keep the function of kick starting the
scooter like a normal non-motorized scooter. It also protects the
small motor from heating up.
For small scooter projects like you are doing I would suggest a
30 and 40 amp 24 volt Currie controller and 3-wire hall effect
throttle. These are controllers used for the Curries, Schwinn and
Mongoose scooters. They are available at:
ElectricScooterParts.com, PartsForScooters.com and
TheSuperKids.com. These controllers have the brake inhibit
function but don't have the kick start circuit and built-in time
delays which is causing you problems.
Unless you are an electronics specialist who can go into the
controller board and bypass the kick start feature and the time
delays I'm really not too sure how you can really use this
controller for your application. These controllers are really
small. They pack it all on a small board and the time delays are
configured in small chips soldered on the board so there really
isn't much you can do to bypass them.
Chip Gribben
ElectroScooterWorks
http://www.electroscooterworks.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Come on, John, I think you are a great guy, and we're good friends, but this
is going too far! I don't have any problem with you wanting to keep the
clutch in your cars, but my Kingcab is fun without it, and I would NEVER
keep the clutch in a conversion, unless the circumstances required it. For
one thing, it complicates the conversion process unnecessrily, and all
subsequent motor/tranny repairs are likewise complicated.
Don't put us clutchless guys down, please - dissing us is so uncool, and so
unlike you!!
Joseph H. Strubhar
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Wayland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 6:47 AM
Subject: Re: Clutch, Keepin' it.
Hello to Jay and All,
Time for the other side to this.
Jay Caplan wrote:
Once you take the clutch AND flywheel out and replace with a splined
coupler, they shift up and down like a dream - at least mine does. Upshift
is one second,
downshift is less than two seconds...
And you call this 'like a dream?' It's more like a nightmare to anyone who
actually enjoys driving a stick shift. In a spirited and fun EV (not a
drag racing EV) like my own Blue Meanie, losing a full second with the
upshift from 2nd gear to 3rd, lowers its snappy 0-60 in ~ 6 seconds to
more than 7 seconds...certainly no part of 'my dream' of having a fun EV.
Going clutchless in such a fun EV pretty much amounts to castration. Call
it sophomoric if you want, but also losing that outrageous rear tire
squeal on that upshift from 2nd to 3rd when the clutch bites, at least in
my little street hotrod, takes away part of the HUGE EV grin that I and
all my passengers love about the car. When I take reporters out for a Blue
Meanie spin, even just chirping the tires on the upshift never fails to
widen that EV grin. Of course, power-shifting and really slamming them
back in the seat has an even stronger effect :-) However, absent the kid
in me and just driving it around as a transportation car is far more
pleasant, far more refined with a smooth shifting clutch set up over the
primitive and crude clutchless version.
This argument goes on and on, but I have never heard from anyone who set
one
up without a flywheel/clutch, didn't like it, and added it all back.
Well, I guess after you read this, you'll thankfully not be able to ever
tell that tale again. You are now hearing from one who has done exactly
that. I didn't like it at all, and I added it all back. The fun factor
returned immediately to my lively little car.
Yes, I experimented with the clutchless-flywheel-less thing in Blue
Meanie. It was just like Jay says in regards to the extra time for
upshifts and downshifts, but for me it was awful. You have to 'think'
about the way you shift, you have to take your time and accommodate the
car and wait for 'it' to allow you to shift, and it takes all the fun out
of shifting. With the properly lightened and balanced flywheel and a
strong high performance clutch setup, I no longer had to 'give
instructions' on how to operate the tranny or how to wait the right amount
of time to shift to anyone wanting to take the car for a spin.
Freddie best summed this up:
Again I do not force
the gear change I allow the transmission to shift when it is ready. As I
have told my wife, you just have to learn how to do this. I am teaching
her
how to drive the truck so that she can drive it to work.
Wonderful...you have to teach someone how not to do the wrong thing for
what is normally one of life's simple pleasures, shift a crisp manual
tranny behind a fun power plant in a car you love. Please everyone, don't
accept the mediocre results of going clutchless. These guys are giving bad
advice if you truly enjoy driving with a manual tranny. On the other hand,
if you don't enjoy driving and don't enjoy the fun that comes with a
properly set up clutch, flywheel, and manual tranny, and if your EV
perhaps is already lacking in fun factor, than go ahead and do it...it
will add to the home brew effect for sure.
See Ya.....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: Mark Hanson
> I was curious about the purpose of a magnetic shunt used in Lester
> Chargers and in microwave ovens (that I convert to chargers).
The magnetic shunt adds inductance in series with the transformer windings. It
behaves as if you have an inductor in series with the primary and/or secondary.
This is useful for a battery charger, or other types of load that could be
shorted or try to draw excessive current. If you try to overload the
transformer, the series inductance creates a voltage drop that limits the
current. Since the drop is inductive, it causes a phase shift (worsens the
power factor), but does not cause extra heating or loss of efficiency.
The winding with the capacitor on a constant voltage transformer is not to
resonate it at 60 Hz. Its effect is more complicated. Suppose you have a
standard "hard" transformer, but add an inductor in series with the primary.
The inductor causes a voltage drop depending on load current. At light load,
you get maximum voltage out; as load increases, the inductor causes an
increasing voltage drop, reducing the primary voltage, and so reducing the
secondary voltage.
Now add a big AC capacitor across the transformer secondary. It loads the
secondary, but its load current is *capacitive*. Its current cancels the
inductive effect of the primary inductor. It has little effect on light-load
voltage (because there is no inductive voltage drop to cancel). But the higher
the load current, the greater the effect of this capacitor. The bigger it is,
the more it raises the output voltage at high load current. If you pick the
*right* value, it completely cancels the inductor's voltage drop so the no-load
and full-load voltages are the same. You have a constant voltage transformer!
This effect doesn't actually regulate as perfectly as theory would imply. So
the final refinement is to let the transformer core saturate. This limits the
power output of a transformer, like current limit in a motor controller. It
also causes excessive primary current and core heating, but the series inductor
in the primary limits this.
Real constant voltage transformers don't use an external inductor; they just
add that extra little piece of iron to the core (the magnetic shunt) between
primary and secondary.
--
I would not waste my life in friction when it could be turned into momentum. --
Frances Willard
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This paper shows the inductance and resistance of
various wires/cables and how twisting them decreases
the inductance.
http://www.ppminc.com/Does_Twisting_Matter2.pdf
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Get some 2/0 at the local welding shop or supply house - that's as big as
you'll need, unless you are trying to race with John W.!
Joseph H. Strubhar
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phelps" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 9:26 PM
Subject: Wire 4/0
Where is a good place to buy 4/0 wire??
What is 2/0 rated at for amps
O shit how about this.. Where a good place to buy anything I need for my E
V
and not go broke
Thanks Mitchell
-------Original Message-------
From: Zeke Yewdall
Date: 6/16/2007 9:58:42 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Aircraft Starter generator
I think that 2/0 is more normal wire size, and I'd use 4/0 for most
Designs if possible. #4 is more like a fuseable link than a real wire
For the amperages that we are usually using. #4 is only rated around
90 amps depending on insulation, placement, etc, whereas 4/0 is rated
Around 270 amps (these are NEC ratings for use in houses -- cars can
Often get away with a little more, if it's not continuous).
Z
On 6/15/07, Phelps <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
If you give me your email I will send you a photo and you can tell me I
hook it up to a single 12 volt battery today to see what it would do It
ran
slow but it ran.. Dam did those wires get hot.. Any way is 4 gage what is
commonly used between the batteries..??
-------Original Message-------
From: Bruce Weisenberger
Date: 06/14/07 00:44:40
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Aircraft Starter generator
Is it a JH-29 used by www.e-volks.com? If so they run
It up to 96 volts with heavy duty air blowing through
It. I plan on using one in a Honda CRF. Have it
Already. Just need to build an adapter, get a
Controller, batteries and wiring. Got a bit to go.
Plan on using an AXE-7245 72 volts 450 amps.
--- Phelps <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> So this is my project now a aircraft starter
> generator on a Geo metro
> convertible
> The motor is 400 amp at 300 volts permanent
> magnet..
>
> So guys in lighting me .. What do I have to look
> forward to on my first EV
>
> --
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-------
>
> From: John Wayland
> Date: 6/12/2007 8:49:41 AM
> >
>
> I believe this. There are a lot of hills around
> here, some of them
> Pretty steep, so yes, in our beautiful urban area
> (we are the only major
> City in the USA with an extinct volcano within the
> city limits) regen is
> A nice feature. HEL--LOW everyone...I've 'never'
> said I don't like
> Regen! In fact, I think it's great.
>
> In my first version of Blue Meanie, waaaay back in
> 1980, I used a
> Primitive aircraft starter generator as the traction
> source. It was a
> Very inefficient motor, and thus ran very hot all
> the time, but it was a
> Versatile compound wound type beast with its
> selectable windings. In
> Addition to having the acceleration power of the
> mighty series-wound
> Motor within, you could also excite the shunt
> windings of its generator
> Soul and get mondo regen, the kind that would try to
> through you through
> The windshield if you got carried away! Some where
> in cyber space
> there's my detailed post of a trip I took from my
> east Portland home
> Westward across the city, up and over the steep
> Sylvan hills (6% grade
> For nearly 4 miles), out to Beaverton where the car
> was put on charge
> But because of time restraints (high output constant
> current PFC
> Chargers didn't exist back then) it didn't get fully
> charged...then
> Reverse the process back home. This was when my
> little Datsun ran at a
> Heady 48 volts, folks, just 8 6V golf car batteries!
> Anyway...I barely
> Made it up the west side grade to the summit of
> Sylvan hill as the
> Batteries were exhausted from their not-so-great
> recharge...the car
> Crawled to the top and was at a tepid human's
> walking gate as it rolled
> Over the crest...whew! I kicked on full regen which
> held the car to a
> Slow 15 mph or so down the hill, but hundreds of
> amps were jammed into
> The poor abused batteries (my formative years, so
> give me a break for
> Committing battricide). I could have coasted down
> the hill, but after
> The lowest point as you re-enter Portland, there's a
> big ass bridge you
> Have to transverse that arches high up and over the
> Willamette River
> that's part of the freeway system that outs you onto
> I-84 East. Had I
> Merely coasted, the car 'might' have had enough
> momentum to make it up
> And over the bridge, but it surely would have died
> afterwards on the
> L-o-n-g ramp that winds to the I-84 and I would have
> found myself stuck
> Alongside the crazy freeway. However, because of the
> high current, long
> Duration regen I employed, the car had a burst of
> power in its battery
> Pack and I was able to make the ~ 9 mile trek (all a
> gradual uphill
> Route) all the way back to my driveway! Yes, it was
> a 100% discharge,Thanks
> for acknowledging this. Yes, I know I'm right about
> it. I have
> Logged too many miles behind the wheel of EV1s to
> not know this, and
> Yes, I've even driven Solectria's vehicles (their
> twin rear motor
> Pickups and unfortunately, their s-l-o-w Geo
> Metros).
>
>
> >
>
>
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Zeke Yewdall
Chief Electrical Engineer
Sunflower Solar, A NewPoint Energy Company
Cell: 720.352.2508
Office: 303.459.0177
FAX documents to: 720.269.1240
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.cosunflower.com
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Quotable Quote
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in the dead of winter, war spreading,
families dying, the world in danger,
I walk the rocky hillside
sowing clover."
Wendell Berry
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Be careful how much you get from your local welding shop. Most charge
4.50 a foot for 2/0. You can get a 50 foot roll of it on ebay which
averages out with shipping to about $3.12 a foot.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of joe
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 10:17
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Wire 4/0
Get some 2/0 at the local welding shop or supply house - that's as big
as you'll need, unless you are trying to race with John W.!
Joseph H. Strubhar
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phelps" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 9:26 PM
Subject: Wire 4/0
> Where is a good place to buy 4/0 wire??
>
> What is 2/0 rated at for amps
>
> O shit how about this.. Where a good place to buy anything I need for
my E
> V
> and not go broke
>
> Thanks Mitchell
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: Zeke Yewdall
> Date: 6/16/2007 9:58:42 AM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: Aircraft Starter generator
>
> I think that 2/0 is more normal wire size, and I'd use 4/0 for most
> Designs if possible. #4 is more like a fuseable link than a real wire
> For the amperages that we are usually using. #4 is only rated around
> 90 amps depending on insulation, placement, etc, whereas 4/0 is rated
> Around 270 amps (these are NEC ratings for use in houses -- cars can
> Often get away with a little more, if it's not continuous).
>
> Z
>
> On 6/15/07, Phelps <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> If you give me your email I will send you a photo and you can tell me
I
>> hook it up to a single 12 volt battery today to see what it would do
It
> ran
>> slow but it ran.. Dam did those wires get hot.. Any way is 4 gage
what is
>> commonly used between the batteries..??
>>
>> -------Original Message-------
>>
>> From: Bruce Weisenberger
>> Date: 06/14/07 00:44:40
>> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>> Subject: Re: Aircraft Starter generator
>>
>> Is it a JH-29 used by www.e-volks.com? If so they run
>> It up to 96 volts with heavy duty air blowing through
>> It. I plan on using one in a Honda CRF. Have it
>> Already. Just need to build an adapter, get a
>> Controller, batteries and wiring. Got a bit to go.
>> Plan on using an AXE-7245 72 volts 450 amps.
>>
>> --- Phelps <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> > So this is my project now a aircraft starter
>> > generator on a Geo metro
>> > convertible
>> > The motor is 400 amp at 300 volts permanent
>> > magnet..
>> >
>> > So guys in lighting me .. What do I have to look
>> > forward to on my first EV
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-------
>> >
>> > From: John Wayland
>> > Date: 6/12/2007 8:49:41 AM
>> > >
>> >
>> > I believe this. There are a lot of hills around
>> > here, some of them
>> > Pretty steep, so yes, in our beautiful urban area
>> > (we are the only major
>> > City in the USA with an extinct volcano within the
>> > city limits) regen is
>> > A nice feature. HEL--LOW everyone...I've 'never'
>> > said I don't like
>> > Regen! In fact, I think it's great.
>> >
>> > In my first version of Blue Meanie, waaaay back in
>> > 1980, I used a
>> > Primitive aircraft starter generator as the traction
>> > source. It was a
>> > Very inefficient motor, and thus ran very hot all
>> > the time, but it was a
>> > Versatile compound wound type beast with its
>> > selectable windings. In
>> > Addition to having the acceleration power of the
>> > mighty series-wound
>> > Motor within, you could also excite the shunt
>> > windings of its generator
>> > Soul and get mondo regen, the kind that would try to
>> > through you through
>> > The windshield if you got carried away! Some where
>> > in cyber space
>> > there's my detailed post of a trip I took from my
>> > east Portland home
>> > Westward across the city, up and over the steep
>> > Sylvan hills (6% grade
>> > For nearly 4 miles), out to Beaverton where the car
>> > was put on charge
>> > But because of time restraints (high output constant
>> > current PFC
>> > Chargers didn't exist back then) it didn't get fully
>> > charged...then
>> > Reverse the process back home. This was when my
>> > little Datsun ran at a
>> > Heady 48 volts, folks, just 8 6V golf car batteries!
>> > Anyway...I barely
>> > Made it up the west side grade to the summit of
>> > Sylvan hill as the
>> > Batteries were exhausted from their not-so-great
>> > recharge...the car
>> > Crawled to the top and was at a tepid human's
>> > walking gate as it rolled
>> > Over the crest...whew! I kicked on full regen which
>> > held the car to a
>> > Slow 15 mph or so down the hill, but hundreds of
>> > amps were jammed into
>> > The poor abused batteries (my formative years, so
>> > give me a break for
>> > Committing battricide). I could have coasted down
>> > the hill, but after
>> > The lowest point as you re-enter Portland, there's a
>> > big ass bridge you
>> > Have to transverse that arches high up and over the
>> > Willamette River
>> > that's part of the freeway system that outs you onto
>> > I-84 East. Had I
>> > Merely coasted, the car 'might' have had enough
>> > momentum to make it up
>> > And over the bridge, but it surely would have died
>> > afterwards on the
>> > L-o-n-g ramp that winds to the I-84 and I would have
>> > found myself stuck
>> > Alongside the crazy freeway. However, because of the
>> > high current, long
>> > Duration regen I employed, the car had a burst of
>> > power in its battery
>> > Pack and I was able to make the ~ 9 mile trek (all a
>> > gradual uphill
>> > Route) all the way back to my driveway! Yes, it was
>> > a 100% discharge,Thanks
>> > for acknowledging this. Yes, I know I'm right about
>> > it. I have
>> > Logged too many miles behind the wheel of EV1s to
>> > not know this, and
>> > Yes, I've even driven Solectria's vehicles (their
>> > twin rear motor
>> > Pickups and unfortunately, their s-l-o-w Geo
>> > Metros).
>> >
>> >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________
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>
>> ______
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>>
>
>
> --
> Zeke Yewdall
> Chief Electrical Engineer
> Sunflower Solar, A NewPoint Energy Company
> Cell: 720.352.2508
> Office: 303.459.0177
> FAX documents to: 720.269.1240
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> www.cosunflower.com
>
> CoSEIA Certified
> Certified BP Solar Installer
> National Association of Home Builders
>
> Quotable Quote
>
> "In the dark of the moon, in flying snow,
> in the dead of winter, war spreading,
> families dying, the world in danger,
> I walk the rocky hillside
> sowing clover."
>
> Wendell Berry
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "gulabrao ingle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 2:44 AM
Subject: Fwd: questions about the prius and other electric cars
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: gulabrao ingle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Jun 14, 2007 7:42 PM
Subject: questions about the prius and other electric cars
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hello,
Well lets start with the Prius ,
Also I cant understand peoples obsession with large cars , the Suzuki
Swift
is a very good size for a car, whats the need for larger cars than
that?(unless necessary)
Try family of 7, and lots of stuff to haul!!
Most cars sold in developed countries have v8s or v6s ,
my point is there is no need for them in cities as the max speeds there
are
30 mph or less in traffic.
all big engines do is drink more petrol
I agree completely here - if a small vehicle will do the job, then that is
the way to go; and the more gas-efficient, the better.
Joseph H. Strubhar
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The fully charged voltage for a 12 volt 5AH NiMH or NiCad battery will
be around 14.5 to 15 volts. I assume your lead acid battery is a
sealed gell cell. Generally, it won't like more than about 14.5 volts
maximum. Other than that, the NiMH generally require more care in
charging than lead acid, I believe, so it should be able to charge it.
Unless is has some feature that tests the pack to determine what it
is, and it can't figure out what the SLA is.
Z
On 6/20/07, Rob Hogenmiller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I have two nice units to charge RC car battery charges.
It has NimH and NicD under choices of battery types to charge.
They will do up to 12 volts and up to 5000mAh
I am wanting to charge a 12 volt 4.5A Lead Acid Battery.
Is there any reason I shouldn't use these charges to charge this type of
battery?
God bless
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Very true. Toyota and Honda took the chance and made the vehicles. GM
needs to do the same. But then the american public needs to actually
BUY the vehicles or they will quit making them. That's why my little
Geo metro has nearly quadrupled in value in the last year. GM quit
making them in 2001 because no one was buying them. Now that gas is
over 3 bucks a gallon people are complaining that they need a fuel
efficient car and Geo's are going like crazy. If GM makes a hybrid or
full electric that is affordable, people need to buy them to spark the
huge demand that Toyota had at first. Now that the dust is settled on
the PRIUS Toyota has a surplus of hybrids, no more 3 month waiting list,
and they have to market them to sell them. It's a viscous cycle.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 11:47
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Google presses for 100 MPG vehicle
Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G wrote:
> I think part of the problem GM is facing is making a car that would
> sell. We can say all day long that the volt would be great but how
> many are going to go right out and buy one when it is available? Or
> how many would be willing to put down an advance to get one of the
> first (like people are doing with Teslas)? GM is taking a huge chance
> at going away from what it has been doing since 1918.
Robert Heinlein said, "Sure, the game is rigged; But if you don't bet,
you don't have *any* chance of winning!"
GM is in a bad situation; but if they don't change, it's only going to
get worse. They *have* to try something new, because what they've been
doing since 1918 isn't working any more.
Toyota and Honda figured this out 10 years ago. They knew their EVs and
hybrids initially wouldn't make money, but they also knew they had to
move in that direction or die -- so they did it! Now, 10 years later,
they have successful hybrid products that are making money. They have
learned how to build electric electric motors, controller, and
batteries. In another 10 years, they will be in the best position to
produce true EVs.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G"
> Be careful how much you get from your local welding shop. Most
> charge $4.50 a foot for 2/0. You can get a 50 foot roll of it
> on ebay which averages out with shipping to about $3.12 a foot.
Also be aware that more and more undersized wire is fraudulently being labelled
and sold as a larger size. It's usually cheap imported junk with no markings on
it as to manufacturer, voltage or temperature ratings, etc.
*Measure* the actual size of the wire, and consult a wiring table to be sure
you know what size it really is!
--
I would not waste my life in friction when it could be turned into momentum. --
Frances Willard
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Loni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I look forward to seeing it in action, and I'm
> curious when someone will be
> the first to incorporate controller/solenoid
> modulation of brush timing. I
> know you and Otmar can do it...Hint hint...
Hey Loni, all
Actually Bill Dube and crew have already set up the
motors on Killacycle to do this very thing. Like all
untried things we'll have to wait and see how well it
works and then improve on it, if it shows promise. I
feel there is enough data to show it has merit and am
personally eager to see how it all pans out.
>
> So you decided to save that armature, eh? I thought
> you might slide a new
> one on, but there's always room for more abuse and
> that one's already been,
> uh... tested 8^)
Actually it would have been nice to have been able to
swap it out for a new one but niether John or I were
"rich enough" to occur the costs. As well the time
restraints were also a factor with Johns Wall Street
Journal interview looming. The biggest issue was that
the comm material had some slight peeling from the
comm bar edges. I tapped on the bars and they weren't
really loose per say so I gave it a good soak in the
dip tank and will Mother hen like never before 8^)
It'll probably take at least 3-4
> years to blow up Siamese8
> MkII...lol!
To be honest I never would have thought it would
survive 2 full years under the rule of "kill it or die
Wayland" we'll see how she holds up under the new
Batts, not to mention Bills pack if that comes to
fruit. Oh God here come the bleeding ulcers again,
thanks for the reminder, LMAO!!!!
>
> Looking forward to seeing you in July at the
> Invitational.
Like wise. Should be a "must attend" EVent for anyone
looking for a good show or just intrested in top knot
EV's as well as the EVer's themselves.
Cya there!
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
____________________________________________________________________________________
Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel
and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Your question might be a bit easier to answer if you mention /which/
porsche (Model and Year) you are talking about.
> Hi,
>
> After putting in 4 50lb nicads up front and 10 in the rear, I'm tweaking
> the
> suspension to give me more ground clearance. Does anyone know what the
> spec
> is? I don't see it in my Haynes & tech tips Porsche manual.
>
> Also in setting the front torsion bars the manual shows a 3.54" difference
> which correlates to a 8.6" measured from the floor to the axle. It was
> 6.5"
> and now it's 7.8" after adjusting the torsion bars to the max. There is
> no
> more upward travel, the suspension is on the upper stops and the front
> will
> only bounce down, not up so I assume the manual has a typo. I'll probably
> adjust it to something in between 6.5 to 7.8" (about 7"). The toe-in on
> the
> front looks to 1/8" as well as the rear. The camber, tires are kicked out
> at the bottom 1/4". I'm told this is good for handling but a 0 camber
> would
> be better for wear (if I can adjust it, not sure).
>
> I installed 180lb progressive springs on the rear but it looks like it's
> lowered 1" and the camber (tires are kicked out at the bottom 1/4") I
> shimmed most of the camber out (was 1" when I bought it). I bought
> Bilstien
> adjustable height shocks which allow the spring seat to be moved up to
> jack
> up the rear a bit. I'd like to bring it up at least an inch or maybe two
> inches, so the rear would be slightly higher than the front.
>
> Have a renewable energy day,
> Mark
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Like puzzles? Play free games & earn great prizes. Play Clink now.
> http://club.live.com/clink.aspx?icid=clink_hotmailtextlink2
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That is true if your batteries are setting on a ground frame and your links
are passing over metal battery hold downs. If they are in a totally
enclosed non-conductive enclosure where the links are isolated from any
ground surfaces then I use a cable voltage rating of 150% over the main
battery pack voltage. The main battery pack feeders I use are enclosed in a
duct way which are not in contact with any of the links which are rated at
600 volts.
My first pack links were 600 amp rated lead links that were welded on to the
post of 2 volt cells. These were install in a 1/4 aluminum battery
enclosure which was not good. Had too much arc over from some of the links
to the aluminum battery enclosure while charging. Latter, I had these
change to a epoxy porcelain cover fiber glass enclosure.
The bare lead links (no voltage rating) had no problem with any conductance
to ground.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marty Hewes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 7:42 AM
Subject: Re: Wire 4/0
> Lots of good info, but I'd think the battery links should be insulated for
> their relative potential to ground? The insulation is rated for
> breakdown,
> how much voltage the insulation may see from the conductor to whatever
> gets
> next to it, which varies depending on where the link is in the pack. But
> the last link will see nearly the whole pack voltage above ground,
> especially during charging, no?
>
> Marty
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 8:09 AM
> Subject: Re: Wire 4/0
>
>
> > Hello Phelps,
> >
> > When buying multi-strand wire, make sure you get the right voltage
> > rating.
> > This will be printed on the side of the wire. A welding supply company
> > will carry two voltage ratings, one is the leader feeder that are rated
> > for 300 volts and then the power leads rated for 600 volts.
> >
> > Some auto parts stores that make up battery wires, they normally carry
> > the lower voltage in stock, but may have to order the higher voltage
> > wire.
> > The auto type stranding is about 110 strands for a 2/0 cable.
> >
> > Also there is different size of wire strands from very fine strands that
> > range from 200 to over 1000 strands for 4/0 wire.
> >
> > Lets say your battery pack is a 250 volt pack, then you can get by with
> > 300 volt cable. If you battery pack is over 300 volts, then your feeder
> > cables coming of the ends of the battery pack should be 600 volt rated.
> >
> > The battery links could be rated at the 300 volt rate because the
> > maximum
> > voltage difference between any two batteries in the pack is only 2, 6,
> > or
> > 12 volts.
> >
> > I preferred to make my battery links with a 300 volt rated 2/0 that has
> > about 110 strands copper wire that has a thinner jacket. Also the
> > larger
> > strands will not fracture as much as the fine strands.
> >
> > I only use the 600 volt fine strand cable with a heavy jack for the
> > feeder
> > runs from the battery pack.
> >
> > I use a heavy heat shrink with adhesive which increases the cable link
> > diameter another 1/4 inch in diameter.
> >
> > Roland
>
>
--- End Message ---
