EV Digest 6996

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: [Fwd: Re: Fiero conversions..?]
        by David Wilker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: Dessicant
        by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: High voltage cable protection and color coding
        by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: Vicor power supplies as DC-DC ?
        by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: Dessicant
        by "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: the eVette
        by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: bury batts was: Re: Free Energy
        by "Brandon Kruger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Nissan/Datsun speedometer cable HELP
        by Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: bury batts was: Re: Free Energy
        by "patrick DonEgan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Optimas Amp hrs vs time
        by Peter Eckhoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: Optimas Amp hrs vs time
        by "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: bury batts was: Re: Free Energy
        by "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) RE: Nissan/Datsun speedometer cable HELP
        by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) RE: Nissan/Datsun speedometer cable HELP
        by Larry Cronk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) WHEN IT'S OKAY to say s--t
        by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) ev1 scr drrives
        by "FRED JEANETTE MERTENS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Ping
        by "David" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: WHEN IT'S OKAY to say s--t
        by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: the eVette
        by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 20) Re: the eVette
        by "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: Motor Inquiry And Response
        by "Rob Hogenmiller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: Motor Inquiry And Response
        by "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: Motor Inquiry And Response
        by "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: the eVette
        by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) RE: Honda Fuel Cell - did I miss 20 years somewhere?
        by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) Ping
        by "David" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 27) RE: Zilla emergency shutdown
        by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 28) Re: WHEN IT'S OKAY to say s--t
        by "patrick DonEgan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 29) Re: how much dc to get about 450 v ac
        by "owen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I wonder if building a a vacuum chamber, and mounting the pump inside it would 
help?


David C. Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)

---- Ken Lange <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
I also would like a quiet brake solution for my Fiero.  Right now, I use 
the GM vacuum pump, but
have also tried the one from Metric Mind 
(http://www.metricmind.com/index1.htm).  While the latter
is touted to be quiet, at least in my case it's noise was quite 
comparable to the GM pump.   I was
comparing the two pumps here when they were not mounted in the car.

I don't have lots of choices in where to mount the pump.  Right now, it 
is behind the front left fender
in front of the tire.  This is a bad place, since there is only sheet 
metal surrounding the pump.  I have
attached sheets of vibration damping material which helps.  I've also 
tried encasing the pump in
different kinds of foam.  Enough foam works pretty well, but it doesn't 
fit in the space available
any more.   Also, some vibration comes out the exhaust and vacuum tubes 
which needs to be
dealt with.

A unassisted system would be nice in my opinion.  The list has had 
discussions from time to time
about removing the booster.  I haven't had the nerve to try anything (yet?).

Ken

-------- Original Message --------
Subject:        Re: Fiero conversions..?
Date:   Tue, 03 Jul 2007 11:01:48 -0700
From:   Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:     ev@listproc.sjsu.edu



<div class="moz-text-flowed" style="font-family: -moz-fixed">Have you tried it? 
 Is the pump quiet?
What I really want is to replace the master cylinder with on for manual 
brakes, but I have no idea what I can replace it with, what little 
research I've done hasn't helped.
Jack

>>
I found a nice vacuum pump for power brakes:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=SSB%2D28146&N=700+400336+4294821918+115&autoview=sku
$279.95 includes everything you need.

storm connors wrote:
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> *         ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED---            *
> *     This post contains a forbidden message format       *
> *  (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting)  *
> *       Lists at  sjsu.edu only accept PLAIN TEXT         *
> * If your postings display this message your mail program *
> * is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting  *
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> 
</div>

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: Thomas Ward
>>> Is it a good idea to put dessicant sachets inside a controller?

Lee Hart wrote:
>> I think it's a good idea, and worth a try. I've seen evidence of
>> water damage inside at least two Curtis controllers, showing that
>> significant amounts of water did get inside.

Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> I use desicant all the time, I've never noticed it to be effective
> against "Significant amounts of water". Removing excess humidity
> sure, but not all that great for controlling water leakage

I don't think the problem is that a lot of water gets in all at once. I
suspect that the case has cracks that allow it to "breathe" in and out
as the temperature and air pressure changes. The water inside is the
result of a slow accumulation.

Anyway, it's worth a try. I'd put the dessicant at some low point in the
case, away from parts or wiring. Hopefully, it will absorb moisture when
the internal humidity is high, preventing it from condensing in bad
places. When the controller is operating and hot, this water would
hopefully be released, and leak out (because the internal case pressure
will rise due to the heat). 

Just a thought.
-- 
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Adrian DeLeon wrote:
> The local True Value has flexible orange (and blue & black!) hose for
> drainage pipe. It's about 2" diameter with large ridges. It's too
> thin to use as conduit, but it'll slide OVER electrical conduit.
> About $1/ft.

Be careful about using non-electrical grade materials for electrical
insulation. Such materials can melt at even modest temperatures, burn
vigorously, and produce electrically conductive residues.
-- 
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John G. Lussmyer wrote:
> I just found the specs for this unit online.  It doesn't have a
> 100-240V input range. It has a 100-120/200-240VAC input range.

OK; then it probably has nominal 300vdc modules, and uses a
jumper-selectable fullwave bridge / voltage doubler input rectifier.

> I need something with a 130-200VDC input range.

Vicor makes VI-271... modules that have a 100-300vdc input range. They
deliver about 100 watts each, and cost about $150 each new (but can
occasionally be found surplus for less).

-- 
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Aren't all of the circuit boards conformally coated?  All the outdoor
electronic equipment that I work with has this -- they are usually
NEMA3R rated, which means that while rain can't drip into them, they
do have holes pointing downward, so they can often get a little wet
from condensation, fog, frost, etc.   Some inverters that got
submerged in muddy water (freshwater) during a flood only had about a
60% survival rate when the water subsided though... so conformal
coating only goes so far.....

Z

On 7/4/07, Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
From: Thomas Ward
>>> Is it a good idea to put dessicant sachets inside a controller?

Lee Hart wrote:
>> I think it's a good idea, and worth a try. I've seen evidence of
>> water damage inside at least two Curtis controllers, showing that
>> significant amounts of water did get inside.

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- If anyone here has built a robot this is pretty much a much bigger version. It's really a pretty standard setup found on many bots. Two drive wheels, one caster wheel.

I actually built one a few years ago using this same basic setup. Two large drive wheels each driven by its own motor and controller and a caster wheel. Very easy to maneuver. Except my design had the drive wheels up front and the caster wheel was in the back. Just reverse of Toms design.

Some bots don't even use a caster wheel but a ball caster instead.

Tom's vehicle would be easy to autonomously control by nature of the way it is set up.

So if you think in terms of a bot it may give you a better idea of the setup.

Some folks were concerned about what would happen if one controller went out and the other kept going. It's very easy to rig up relays to prevent the vehicle from going out of control. I've worked on some cheap Segway clones that have a casterwheel with two seperate drive motors and a brake inhibit function is built in so every time you brake, power is shut off to each motor. Common on all scooters now actually. Something like that can easily be rigged up.

The last personal mobility scooter I worked on I installed a rather expensive 24-volt Curtis controller with built-in reverse that would shut down automatically when it sensed full throttle. And that sucker worked because when I pulled the throttle all the way back the controller would shut off and it wouldn't start again until I set the throttle back to neutral. It was designed specifically for personal mobility scooter use.

So you can put as many safeguards into the system as you want. Since that scooter was for an elderly man, as a precaution I also adjusted the sensitivity of the potentiometer so he could select what the top speed could be. Basically a pot in series with the pot.

So coming from the robot/personal mobility scooter angle I can see how Tom's vehicle is set up.

Would I drive it? Not sure yet. Need to see it in person first.

I'm sure Tom would probably say I'm totally wrong but "it's great to drive."

Chip
ElectroScooterWorks.com

On Jul 5, 2007, at 6:52 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:

From: "Tom S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: July 5, 2007 5:43:29 PM EDT
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: the eVette


Hi John,

Thanks for the input, however First off all a standard three wheeler is inherently unsafe, the front wheel in tring to steer the bike is what turns it over. I guess you couldn`t see the chuck hole our car went over in that turn, I thought the springs worked pretty good on that turn. Florida doesn`t have many hills so thats so thats not a problem here. By the did I tell you we`ve been experimenting with driving the car autonomously by computer.

Tom Sines

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you do bury batteries underground, they should remain at a constant
57F.  This would keep the batteries from overheating, but you wouldn't
get the full capacity achievable at 70-80F.

My 2 Wh,

Brandon Kruger
http://bmk789.dyndns.org/ev/
http://cafepress.com/altfuel

On 7/5/07, patrick DonEgan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 7/5/07, Richard Acuti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> I'll start off with a grid-tie system but evenually I want an interrupt
> breaker that will divert PV output from the static inverter to a "battery
> bunker" I'm going to bury in the backyard. That way, if the grid goes down,
> I'll have batteries to run things for a little while.


If you bury the batteries, will the earth soak up a percentage of your energy?




--

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- Right now I'm loosening all the stuff in preparation for removing the motor and transmission from my old Datsun. I hope to pull them this weekend.

There is a large nut around the speedo cable (3/4 inch head in my case) that will turn. There is also a small bolt in the transmission right next to where the speedo cable enters. Looking at my service manual I'm having a hard time figuring out if that is a bolt I am NOT supposed to remove (a reverse gear locking bolt) or if that bolt allows me to pull the whole assembly out of the transmission. The factory service manual for the does not make it clear.

I know most Datsun conversions are based on newer models than mine. However, my tranny is the first of the newer type full syncro units. My factory service manual devotes a couple of pages to the newer full syncro tranny and most of the section to the older transmissions with syncros in all but 1st gear.

There are a number of Datsuns in the EV album. Someone with one please share a bit of their experience. I can't afford to just cut the cable and figure it out later, '66 Datsun parts are hard to get (and tend to be expensive when you find them.)

Thanx,
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, what about the capacitance of the Earth (aka dirt)???

I know when you bury electrical cables, you lose power.


On 7/5/07, Brandon Kruger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
If you do bury batteries underground, they should remain at a constant
57F.  This would keep the batteries from overheating, but you wouldn't
get the full capacity achievable at 70-80F.

My 2 Wh,

Brandon Kruger
http://bmk789.dyndns.org/ev/
http://cafepress.com/altfuel

On 7/5/07, patrick DonEgan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 7/5/07, Richard Acuti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >
> > I'll start off with a grid-tie system but evenually I want an interrupt
> > breaker that will divert PV output from the static inverter to a "battery
> > bunker" I'm going to bury in the backyard. That way, if the grid goes down,
> > I'll have batteries to run things for a little while.
>
>
> If you bury the batteries, will the earth soak up a percentage of your energy?
>
>


--



--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- I'm looking for a graph of Amp hr capacity vs time for Optima D34's. I went to the Optima site but only found the 20 hour and 100 hour values. I'm basically looking for the 1 hour value but I do have need of an actual graph. I contacted Optima customer service and they sent me a open circuit voltage vs state of charge graph. Do any of you have a URL to a graph of Amp Hr capacity vs time?
Am I asking for this correctly?

Peter

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you had discharge curves (voltage vs time) at different currents,
you could pick a cutoff voltage, then figure out the time, and
backcalculate the AH at that current.

Z

On 7/5/07, Peter Eckhoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I'm looking for a graph of Amp hr capacity vs time for Optima D34's.  I
went to the Optima site but only found the 20 hour and 100 hour values.
I'm basically looking for the 1 hour value but I do have need of an
actual graph.  I contacted Optima customer service and they sent me a
open circuit voltage vs state of charge graph.  Do any of you have a URL
to a graph of Amp Hr capacity vs time?

Am I asking for this correctly?

Peter




--
Zeke Yewdall
Chief Electrical Engineer
Sunflower Solar, A NewPoint Energy Company
Cell: 720.352.2508
Office: 303.459.0177
FAX documents to: 720.269.1240
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.cosunflower.com

CoSEIA Certified
Certified BP Solar Installer
National Association of Home Builders

Quotable Quote

"In the dark of the moon, in flying snow,
in the dead of winter, war spreading,
families dying, the world in danger,
I walk the rocky hillside
sowing clover."

Wendell Berry

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
AC or DC?  IIRC, it's only an issue with AC cables, and even then only
over 100 miles or more (at least for overhead cables that's when
capacitance starts mattering -- underground could be be affected at
alot shorter run, since the cables are much closer together, and thus
the self capacitance is higher)

Z

On 7/5/07, patrick DonEgan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Well, what about the capacitance of the Earth (aka dirt)???

I know when you bury electrical cables, you lose power.


On 7/5/07, Brandon Kruger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If you do bury batteries underground, they should remain at a constant
> 57F.  This would keep the batteries from overheating, but you wouldn't
> get the full capacity achievable at 70-80F.
>
> My 2 Wh,
>
> Brandon Kruger
> http://bmk789.dyndns.org/ev/
> http://cafepress.com/altfuel
>
> On 7/5/07, patrick DonEgan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On 7/5/07, Richard Acuti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > I'll start off with a grid-tie system but evenually I want an interrupt
> > > breaker that will divert PV output from the static inverter to a "battery
> > > bunker" I'm going to bury in the backyard. That way, if the grid goes 
down,
> > > I'll have batteries to run things for a little while.
> >
> >
> > If you bury the batteries, will the earth soak up a percentage of your 
energy?
> >
> >
>
>
> --
>
>




--
Zeke Yewdall
Chief Electrical Engineer
Sunflower Solar, A NewPoint Energy Company
Cell: 720.352.2508
Office: 303.459.0177
FAX documents to: 720.269.1240
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.cosunflower.com

CoSEIA Certified
Certified BP Solar Installer
National Association of Home Builders

Quotable Quote

"In the dark of the moon, in flying snow,
in the dead of winter, war spreading,
families dying, the world in danger,
I walk the rocky hillside
sowing clover."

Wendell Berry

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Paul wrote: 

> There is a large nut around the speedo cable (3/4 inch head in my  
> case) that will turn. There is also a small bolt in the transmission  
> right next to where the speedo cable enters. Looking at my service  
> manual I'm having a hard time figuring out if that is a bolt 
> I am NOT supposed to remove (a reverse gear locking bolt) or if that
> bolt allows me to pull the whole assembly out of the transmission. The

> factory service manual for the does not make it clear.

I haven't pulled a tranny out of a Datsun for a long time, but the nut
on the speedo cable usually allows you to remove the cable from the
tranny while a small bolt in the immediate vicinity will usually be
retaining the speedo drive gear assembly itself.

You can't go wrong undoing the cable nut and verifying with a gentle tug
that this frees the cable housing from the tranny/speedo drive.  If that
gentle tug doesn't reveal that the cable is now completely free of the
tranny, tug a little more firmly.  It will come loose with very little
effort if it is free, so you will know if the little bolt needs to come
out well before you harm the cable.

Have fun,

Roger.

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
*         ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED---            *
*     This post contains a forbidden message format       *
*  (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting)  *
*       Lists at  sjsu.edu only accept PLAIN TEXT         *
* If your postings display this message your mail program *
* is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting  *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
 Hi EVerybody;

We need an EVers addition to THIS one. Burnt motors, blown up badd-eries etc?!Seeya in PDX?Start savin' those pix!

 Bob, leavin' tomorrow!
> When it's OK to say
>
> "OH SHIT"..
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
*         ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED---            *
*     This post contains a forbidden message format       *
*  (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting)  *
*       Lists at  sjsu.edu only accept PLAIN TEXT         *
* If your postings display this message your mail program *
* is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting  *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
*         ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED---            *
*     This post contains a forbidden message format       *
*  (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting)  *
*       Lists at  sjsu.edu only accept PLAIN TEXT         *
* If your postings display this message your mail program *
* is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting  *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Testing new e-mail address.

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 9:51 PM
Subject: WHEN IT'S OKAY to say s--t


 Hi EVerybody;

 We need an EVers addition to THIS one. Burnt motors, blown up badd-eries
etc?!Seeya in PDX?Start savin' those pix!

 Bob, leavin' tomorrow!
> When it's OK to say
>
> "OH SHIT"..
AGAIN as the link didn't go through! Anyhow I'm gunna see HOW many BB-600's I can get in a Prius?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
*         ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED---            *
*     This post contains a forbidden message format       *
*  (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting)  *
*       Lists at  sjsu.edu only accept PLAIN TEXT         *
* If your postings display this message your mail program *
* is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting  *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.0/886 - Release Date: 7/4/2007 1:40 PM
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<<<<
Thanks for the input, however First off all a standard three wheeler is
inherently unsafe, the front wheel in tring to steer the bike is what turns it
over. I guess you couldn`t see the chuck hole our car went over in that turn, I
thought the springs worked pretty good on that turn. Florida doesn`t have many
hills so thats so thats not a problem here. By the did I tell you we`ve been
experimenting with driving the car autonomously by computer.
>>>>

I think Jerry Dycus is in your neck of the woods, and he doesn't like *one*
forward wheel either! He is going about the solution more conventionally, and
one hopes the Freedom EV's hand-laid shape will be more slippery than a Contach
(low frontal area, not low air drag)

My Ranger may use more energy/mile, but it can go 60 miles, hit 75 mph (but not
both at the same time), and drives just fine with a big ole dent from a
collision that I just can't afford to fix (but would have sidelined any
3-wheeler for some *big* repairs). Collision testing, that's high on my list
for any new car!

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the input, however First off all a standard three wheeler is
inherently unsafe, the front wheel in tring to steer the bike is what turns it
over.

What about the tadpole configuration?  Two wheels up front, steering.
Back wheel merely holds the back up?  Like the Doran, and how the
Dymaxion probably should have been.  Isn't the Gizmo this way too?
Plus alot of recumbent trikes.

Z

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- When someone type/says it requires this much amps do they mean per second or per minute?

Thank you.


----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Major" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 9:45 AM
Subject: Re: Motor Inquiry And Response



Hi Rob,

What they did, and you should have done, is take the
speed (1500 RPM) times the torque (100 lb.ft.) and
divide by 5252.  Gives 28.56 HP.  Multiply by 745.6.
Gives 21295 Watts.  Divide by 24 volts.  Gives 887
amps.  Even at 800 RPM, 473 amps.

All that at 100 percent motor efficiency and no
battery sag (a stiff 24 volts at motor terminals).

If you assume this is peak power from the battery, sag
will take you to 12 volts.  Assume 50 percent motor
efficiency.  Then the 1500 RPM case requires 3549
amps.

You can see why most EVs use a higher voltage.

Hope this helps.

Jeff



--- Rob Hogenmiller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I recently contacted a company with interest in
motor.
Also is there response. I was wondering if anyone
could confirm their
information.

MY INQUIRY:

I was wondering what 24v motor would you recommend.

I'm hoping to find one that can produce 100ft/lbs of
torque around
800-2200rpm range.

THEIR RESPONSE

Thanks for your inquiry.
If your parameters are correct, that Motor, at a
nomimal speed of 1500 RPM,
would need to develop 28.55 HP, according to my
calculations..
At 24 Volts, you'd need 887 Amps of current to
achieve that torque.






____________________________________________________________________________________
Don't pick lemons.
See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html



--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Neither.  They mean Amps.  Period.  An amp is a coulomb per second, so
no need to take the second derivative of it and make it coulombs per
second squared.

Amps per second is a ramp rate, which could be a useful measure when
designing motor controllers feeding inductive loads I guess.  But
unless you are getting deeply into designing your own controller, I
doubt you ever have to worry about it while building an EV.

Z



On 7/5/07, Rob Hogenmiller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
When someone type/says it requires this much amps do they mean per second or
per minute?

Thank you.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Major" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 9:45 AM
Subject: Re: Motor Inquiry And Response


>
> Hi Rob,
>
> What they did, and you should have done, is take the
> speed (1500 RPM) times the torque (100 lb.ft.) and
> divide by 5252.  Gives 28.56 HP.  Multiply by 745.6.
> Gives 21295 Watts.  Divide by 24 volts.  Gives 887
> amps.  Even at 800 RPM, 473 amps.
>
> All that at 100 percent motor efficiency and no
> battery sag (a stiff 24 volts at motor terminals).
>
> If you assume this is peak power from the battery, sag
> will take you to 12 volts.  Assume 50 percent motor
> efficiency.  Then the 1500 RPM case requires 3549
> amps.
>
> You can see why most EVs use a higher voltage.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
> --- Rob Hogenmiller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> I recently contacted a company with interest in
>> motor.
>> Also is there response. I was wondering if anyone
>> could confirm their
>> information.
>>
>> MY INQUIRY:
>>
>> I was wondering what 24v motor would you recommend.
>>
>> I'm hoping to find one that can produce 100ft/lbs of
>> torque around
>> 800-2200rpm range.
>>
>> THEIR RESPONSE
>>
>> Thanks for your inquiry.
>> If your parameters are correct, that Motor, at a
>> nomimal speed of 1500 RPM,
>> would need to develop 28.55 HP, according to my
>> calculations..
>> At 24 Volts, you'd need 887 Amps of current to
>> achieve that torque.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> 
____________________________________________________________________________________
> Don't pick lemons.
> See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
> http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html
>
>




--
Zeke Yewdall
Chief Electrical Engineer
Sunflower Solar, A NewPoint Energy Company
Cell: 720.352.2508
Office: 303.459.0177
FAX documents to: 720.269.1240
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.cosunflower.com

CoSEIA Certified
Certified BP Solar Installer
National Association of Home Builders

Quotable Quote

"In the dark of the moon, in flying snow,
in the dead of winter, war spreading,
families dying, the world in danger,
I walk the rocky hillside
sowing clover."

Wendell Berry

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, July 5, 2007 10:46 pm, Rob Hogenmiller wrote:
> When someone type/says it requires this much amps do they mean per second
> or
> per minute?

An ampere (amp) is a rate of current flow. You don't say "amps per second"
or "amps per minute" unless you're talking about a change (an increase or
decrease) in current over time.

In this way, amps are similar to other rates of flow or movement, like
GPM, CFM, RPM, m/sec, MPH, etc. Literally, an amp is the movement of one
coulomb of charge per second past a given point in a conductor.



-- 
Christopher Robison
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://ohmbre.org          <-- 1999 Isuzu Hombre + Z2K + Warp13!

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A tadpole wouldn't fix things.

A simple view (perhaps oversimplified) of the problem is where the CG is in relation to the imaginary line of the wheel base on either side. In a 4 wheeler, the imaginary line is several feet to either side. In a 3 wheeler, the wheel base line on the left side is a line between the front left tire to the rear and that may not be all that far to the side. Note that loading the rear more brings the CG back, and that makes it closer to the wheel base line.

Now you know a 4-wheeler's stability mostly depends on having a low CG and a wide wheel base. In actuality, it is more accurate to say that the stability comes from the angle between the wheel line on either side and the CG point. Flatter angles are the stable ones. The 3-wheeler can by pretty darn wide angle there and is relatively close to tipping over the wheel line on either side.

If the machine can lean, this can greatly compensate for that property, in fact it can lean in ways that would be difficult to implement on a 4-wheeler and could even be more stable.

Danny

Zeke Yewdall wrote:

Thanks for the input, however First off all a standard three wheeler is
inherently unsafe, the front wheel in tring to steer the bike is what turns it
over.


What about the tadpole configuration?  Two wheels up front, steering.
Back wheel merely holds the back up?  Like the Doran, and how the
Dymaxion probably should have been.  Isn't the Gizmo this way too?
Plus alot of recumbent trikes.

Z


--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Again, I read on the list that some did not get this message,
while I received below in perfect order....
Weird.

Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water     IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225    VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675    eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Seth Myers
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 5:35 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Honda Fuel Cell - did I miss 20 years somewhere?

The news is that they plan to build for mass market a $25,000 fuel cell
vehicle that gets 68 mpg (so what that hydrogen costs $3-$6 a gallon, and
that you won't be able to find any)
- so did the fuel cell movement manage to leap frog the 20 years or so
hurdle that seemed to be the concensus for the time it would take to come to
market, or are these part of say a 100 or 1000 vehicle demo fleet, each
costing more like $100,000, but for them just to say ' we tried it, now
let's wait to see a hydrogen infrastructure develop' ?  
    Or possibly a 'mild fuel cell' vehicle much like the Honda mild hybrid ?

It's not (entirely) that I'm too lazy to research this, it's just that I
hold the collective wisdom of this list in such high regard, that it's just
less energy/labor-intensive to ask some people who know these things (and
hae probably already discussed them before, though I couldn't find any
recent discussion in the archives)

    Also, I see the Chinese made Chery auto company is going to be beinging
their cars to the US through Chrysler as Chrysler, Jeep or Dodge.
Presumably they will offer some sort of smaller, cheaper and lightweight
vehicle - perhaps an ideal ev conversion platform?  BY then, there should be
some Firefly batteries out (they are supposed to have some group 31 truck
application battery available this fall, so maybe next fall ...) so ev'eers
could make some nice statements (a 100 mile range vehicle that doesn't have
to rely on expensive lithium battery packs)

Thanks,

Seth

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
New e-mail address.

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Some cars have an inertia switch to unlock all doors upon impact,
so any help can actually reach you.
I had this problem that my central door lock did no longer
work on my Renault 18 station wagon after a mild encounter
with another car, until someone suggested to reset the
inertia switch under the dash.

Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]    Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water     IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225    VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675    eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Roger Stockton
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 12:52 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: Zilla emergency shutdown

Joseph T.  wrote: 

> The only
> problem is that the interia switches have a "g" rating. I am assuming 
> it is the range of g's that make the switch cut  off. Does anyone know 
> the g's you ecounter in an accident?

It all depends on where you are concerned with reacting to the impact, or
more precisely, where on the vehicle the sensor was intended to be mounted.
I don't recall the exact G ratings, but the airbag sensors I once worked
with were designed with various ratings, some for just a couple of G's and
others needing perhaps 10-12Gs to fire.  A sensor with a high G rating would
be intended to be located out by the radiator, for instance, since the idea
was to only fire the airbags if the collision was bad enough that the
airbags would be needed.  Since there is considerable crush zone between the
rad and passenger compartment, this sensor would only fire the airbags if
the collision was severe enough that the passenger compartment would not be
sufficiently decelerated through the crush zone deformation.  A sensor
located at the firewall might only require a few Gs to trip.

The inertia switch I got from EV Parts looked just like the one in my
'97 Escort, which was located near the fuseblock in the driver's footwell,
*not* by the fuel tank.  I am comfortable using this switch on the firewall
of my EV since it is likely to trip under similar conditions as it was
intended to.  I would not use a switch removed from a fuel tank location on
the firewall of an EV, but it would probably work fine if located in that
general area of the EV.

If you pull the inertia switch yourself at a junkyard, make note of the
orientation of the switch in the original vehicle and try to duplicate it
when installed in the EV.  You don't want it to be dropping out power when
you go over potholes, etc. since you have to manually reset it each time
(and it probably isn't intended to last for very many switch cycles...).

Cheers,

Roger.

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On the BattleStar called Galactica -
We say "Fraq!"


On 7/5/07, Bob Rice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  Hi EVerybody;

  We need an EVers addition to THIS one. Burnt motors, blown up badd-eries
etc?!Seeya in PDX?Start savin' those pix!

  Bob, leavin' tomorrow!
>> > When it's OK to say
>> >
>> > "OH SHIT"..

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
*         ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED---            *
*     This post contains a forbidden message format       *
*  (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting)  *
*       Lists at  sjsu.edu only accept PLAIN TEXT         *
* If your postings display this message your mail program *
* is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting  *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *



--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
it is not small 1068mm long tip of shaft to end of motor and 660mm round
Owen
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Major" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 1:23 AM
Subject: Re: how much dc to get about 450 v ac



Hi Owen,

To run a 3 phase AC motor from DC, you'll need a 3
phase inverter.  The DC voltage input to the inverter
is about 1.4 times the AC voltage output to the motor.
I've done this for 230 volt AC motors with 312 volt
DC.  With batteries, you get the sag, so you'd
probably want to be up to 350 volts DC or so.

How big is that 110 kW sucker?  If it is an industrial
motor, it is probably 460 VAC.  Means you'd want about
700 volts DC.

You know the EV-One had a 100 kW three phase AC motor
and 312 volt battery (PbAcid) and went to 348 volt, I
think, on the NiMHyd battery.

Jeff




--- owen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

hi to all
I found a 110kw ac 3 phase motor and I would like to
know much dc is needed to run it and if there is an
efficient way to convert it to ac
thank you all love reading your email's and I am
learning a lot
Owen




____________________________________________________________________________________
Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting

--- End Message ---

Reply via email to