EV Digest 7061
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: What is the typical amperage draw of the field for a sepex motor?
by "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: What EV to see in LA
by "Will Beckett \(becketts\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Series/Parallel switching (was Re: Karmann Ghia Design -
System voltage)
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: I love my job a.k.a. I brought home so much ****
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) An experiment
by "Obrien, Haskell W." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Wh/Mile Formula ?
by Jeff Mccabe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: An experiment
by BrownGassyTurd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Battery for a Bicycle?
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Series/Parallel switching (was Re: Karmann Ghia Design - System
voltage)
by Steven Ciciora <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: An experiment
by Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: individual chargers
by Mark Freidberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: What EV to see in LA
by Bob Siebert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Battery for a Bicycle?
by "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: What EV to see in LA
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: To Feed or Not To Feed (the troll) [was: RE:
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: An experiment
by "Michael Wendell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Upgrading NEV as alternative to ICE conversion
by Kevin Lura <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18)
by Marc Geller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Cooling a Netgain Motor...
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
20) RE: An experiment
by "Obrien, Haskell W." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Upgrading NEV as alternative to ICE conversion
by "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Upgrading NEV as alternative to ICE conversion
by Michael Barkley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: Upgrading NEV as alternative to ICE conversion
by "David S" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Karmann Ghia Design - System voltage
by Deb Hollenback <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: An experiment - a scam??
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Upgrading NEV as alternative to ICE conversion
by Kevin Lura <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, it is blower cooled.
On 7/25/07, Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Zeke,
6.8 Ohms is pretty low for a true shunt motor. Lee's
got a pretty good take on it. But I think your
nameplate said this was blower cooled, so field watts
could be even lower, maybe 200 to 300. Good news is
that you'll be able to over excite for accel torque.
If you can come up with a variable power supply for
the field, 100 V, 15A, or at least 50 V, 8A, you could
run some bench tests to figure out how to control the
field. If you can drive the armature of the beast at
a constant RPM, you can take a no load magnetization
curve. That would be helpful when you design your
control and give you a real good idea of safe field
current.
Jeff
--- Zeke Yewdall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Thanks Lee. Yup, 220A is the total continuous
> rating, which is
> 21.2kW at 96 volts.
>
> Man, I can't wait to get my donor vehicle here so I
> get start testing
> everything in the car, instead of just sitting on
> the workbench (it's
> in my friend's shop 400 miles away).
>
> Zeke
>
> On 7/24/07, Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Zeke Yewdall wrote:
> > > It's got two separate terminals for the field.
> And, I measured the
> > > resistance between them -- 6.8ohms. Which I
> guess would translate to
> > > only 14 amps at rated voltage (96 volts)
> >
> > That sounds about right for a sepex motor. Field
> power is on the order
> > of 2% of armature power. I think you said this was
> a 96v 22 horsepower
> > motor? That means armature power is around 22kw.
> 2% of 22kw is 440 watts
> > for the field. With a 6.8 ohm field, 440 watts is
> 57 volts at 7.67 amps.
> > This is an educated guess as to what the field
> could stand for (say) one
> > hour.
> >
> > The full 96v into a 6.8 ohm field would be over
> 1350 watts, which would
> > burn it out in 5-10 minutes. So, it's unlikely to
> be a shunt motor,
> > which would have had a field wound to withstand
> full armature voltage
> > for an hour or more.
> >
> > --
> > Ring the bells that still can ring
> > Forget the perfect offering
> > There is a crack in everything
> > That's how the light gets in -- Leonard
> Cohen
> > --
> > Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
> >
> >
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel
and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The largest, electric vehicle only show on the west coast is the Silicon
Valley Rally on August 25th in Palo Alto, CA
http://www.eaasv.org/rally.html
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Joseph T.
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 8:27 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: What EV to see in LA
Tesla Motors will be at Pebble Beach (although it's far from LA) in
mid-August and PGE has a fleet of Rav4 EVs.
I don't know much about California, so I have no idea if the PGE fleet
of EVs are in LA. But what I do know is that it's hybrids galore in
California!!!
On 7/24/07, Roy LeMeur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Re: What EV to see in LA
>
> Hi Lee
>
> How about Reverend Gadget?
>
> Left Coast Conversions.
>
> http://www.reverendgadget.com/gpage1.html
>
>
> ~~~~~~
>
>
> Roy LeMeur
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> http://liveearth.msn.com
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Because you are at max voltage, the only way to force more current through
the motor would be to raise the voltage above pack voltage. The 'zilla is
NOT limiting current, pack voltage and the motor's BEMF are limiting the
current.
You will keep accelerating as long as the torque produced is higher than
the torque required to maintain that speed. As the current drops your
rate of acceleration will drop, but you will still accelerate (provided
you still have excess torque).
> Why would the Zilla's output current drop if your accelerating? How
> could you accelerate if current is dropping without voltage
> increasing?
>
>
>
> O 7/24/07, Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> > "Under these
>> > conditions, the motors see more voltage and more
>> > current in seriese mode than in parallel mode."
>> >
>> > I must be missing something here. You're saying that the Zilla gives
>> > more voltage and current in series than in parralel. Since voltage
>> > times current is power, you're basically saying that the Zilla is more
>> > powerful in series than in parralel mode. Does the Zilla limit overall
>> > power in parralel mode compared to series?
>>
>> No. At low RPMS the 'zilla delivers more power in series. At high
>> RPMS,
>> the zilla delivers more power in parallel.
>>
>> The point where is switches from one to the other is when the current
>> drops below 1,000 amps in series mode.
>>
>> The 'zilla 2k protects itself. It won't send more than 2,000 amps to
>> the
>> motors. It does this by reducing the output voltage to the point where
>> only 2,000 amps flows.
>>
>> Once the motor RPMs climb to the point where they won't draw 2,000 amps
>> even at full pack voltage, then the controller no longer limits current
>> and doesn't reduce the voltage. Now the only thing limiting current is
>> the back EMF from the motor and that depends on RPM, more RPM = less
>> current.
>>
>> Let's say we have a 240V pack. The controller will come out of current
>> limit when the series motors are seeing 240V and drawing 2,000 amps. As
>> the RPMs increase the current will fall. Basically each motor sees 120V
>> and 2,000 amps. That's 240 kw per motor.
>> If we switch to parallel at this point, then the controller will go BACK
>> into current limit. Now remember at this RPM 120V equals 2,000 amps on
>> each motor. The 'zilla can ONLY put out 2,000 amps TOTAL. In parallel
>> that means 1,000 amps per motor.
>> Now the 'zilla can't send 120V to the motors because they would each try
>> to draw 2,000 amps for a total of 4,000 amps. In order to only allow
>> each
>> motor to draw 1,000 amps, the output voltage has to drop to 60V. So now
>> each motor sees 60V.
>> 60V x 1,000 amps = 60kw per motor.
>> By switching too soon we have reduce our power to only 25%
>>
>> If we wait until the current drops to 1,000 amps (which happens at a
>> much
>> higher RPM). Then each motor is seeing 120V @ 1,000 amps, 120 KW
>> If we continue to accelerate, then the current will fall below 1,000
>> amps
>> and our power will drop.
>> Switching to parallel now will put the controller back in current limit,
>> 2,000 amps across two motors, the output voltage from the controller
>> will
>> drop to 120V and increase as the motors RPM climbs (it has to increase
>> to
>> keep the current at 1,000 amps), until the voltage across the parallel
>> motors reachs 240 volts. Since the current is held at 1,000 amps, our
>> power level INCREASES as the voltage climbs until it reachs 240 kw per
>> motor (240V * 1,000Amps)
>>
>> So if we keep them in series our power would continue to drop from
>> 120kw.
>> By switching to parallel the power starts at 120kw and INCREASES until
>> it
>> reachs 240 kw, per motor.
>> Switch to soon and we loose power until we can accelerate to the point
>> where we should have switched.
>>
>> Does that help?
>>
>> >
>> > On 7/24/07, Steven Ciciora <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >> I know I don't explain this very well, 'cause I've
>> >> confused many a person... so, note that my previous
>> >> example was why the zilla doesn't shift before the
>> >> series current drops to the the value of half the
>> >> current limit in parallel mode. If the zilla shifted
>> >> sooner, then in parallel mode, the motor current would
>> >> be _limited_ to 2000 amps total, or 1,000 amps per
>> >> motor, by the zilla's 2,000 amp overall limit. The
>> >> way the zilla limits motor current is by reducing the
>> >> motor voltage. Under these conditions, in series
>> >> mode, the zilla doesn't have to limit current, so it
>> >> doesn't have to back off on voltage. Under these
>> >> conditions, the motors see more voltage and more
>> >> current in seriese mode than in parallel mode.
>> >>
>> >> Did that help clear up anything, or just confuse
>> >> things more?
>> >>
>> >> Steven Ciciora
>> >>
>> >> --- "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > "You would be better off in series (where they are
>> >> > drawing more than
>> >> > 1,000 amps)."
>> >> >
>> >> > As I understand, as you accelerate and reach higher
>> >> > and higher speeds,
>> >> > more rpm is required and less torque is needed. The
>> >> > way to achieve
>> >> > higher rpm with an electric motor is with more
>> >> > volts. Therefore,
>> >> > you're better off with each motor getting less than
>> >> > 1,000 amps because
>> >> > that way they are getting more voltage, and
>> >> > producing more rpm, and
>> >> > therefore reaching higher speeds. Am I wrong?
>> >> >
>> >> > On 7/24/07, Steven Ciciora
>> >> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >> > > One small detail that could be inserted after
>> >> > "...the
>> >> > > current will decrease as motor rpm continues to
>> >> > > increase." The zilla waits for the current to
>> >> > > decrease to half of the parallel current limit
>> >> > that is
>> >> > > programmed into the zilla. For example, when
>> >> > racing a
>> >> > > Z2K, it is likely that the current limit in
>> >> > parallel
>> >> > > mode is 2,000 amps. So the zilla waits until the
>> >> > > motors are only drawing 1,000 amps in series
>> >> > before
>> >> > > shifting. If the zilla shifted sooner than this,
>> >> > they
>> >> > > would be drawing more than 1,000 amps (each) in
>> >> > > series. Since the zilla 2K can only put out 2,000
>> >> > > motor amps total, each motor can only see 1,000
>> >> > amps
>> >> > > each when in parallel mode. You would be better
>> >> > off in
>> >> > > series (where they are drawing more than 1,000
>> >> > amps).
>> >> > >
>> >> > > - Steven Ciciora
>> >> > >
>> >> > > --- "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >> > >
>> >> > > > Series/Parallel switching motors is great!
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Bill Dube gives an excellent explanation on his
>> >> > > > website:
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > "The Zilla Controller has the ability to operate
>> >> > a
>> >> > > > series/parallel
>> >> > > > motor contactor automatically. The motors are
>> >> > > > initially configured in
>> >> > > > series. Thus, the full controller output current
>> >> > > > travels through both
>> >> > > > motors. This gives maximum starting torque. As
>> >> > the
>> >> > > > motors spin up, the
>> >> > > > voltage across each of them increases. When that
>> >> > > > voltage matches the
>> >> > > > battery voltage, the current will decrease as
>> >> > motor
>> >> > > > rpm continues to
>> >> > > > increase. The Zilla will then switch the motors
>> >> > into
>> >> > > > parallel
>> >> > > > connection. This will double to voltage
>> >> > available to
>> >> > > > each motor, but
>> >> > > > will divide the current. The motors can turn
>> >> > much
>> >> > > > faster, but with
>> >> > > > half the torque. It result is just like shifting
>> >> > a
>> >> > > > transmission from
>> >> > > > low to high."
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> >
>> >> ____________________________________________________________________________________
>> >> > > Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights
>> >> > and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase.
>> >> > > http://farechase.yahoo.com/
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ____________________________________________________________________________________
>> >> Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's
>> >> Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when.
>> >> http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
>> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever
>> I
>> wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
>> legalistic signature is void.
>>
>>
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Are the PM motors good for anything? I was thinking electric bike but the
> hp may be to low.
They are perfect for an electric bike. The average couch potato can only
produce ~ 1/7 hp on a continuous basis. 1/3 hp is adequate for a bike
with a top speed of ~18 mph. The 1/2 hp motor could maybe take it to
23-24 mph (on flat ground, with no wind, etc.)
> Can they be run at higher voltages like a series motor?
Maybe, depends on how close to the edge they are already running. Then
again what's the worse that can happen? You ruin a 'free' motor? Chalk
it up to a learning experience and be glad it didn't cost you anything.
> I understand that overvoltaging them too much will weaken or destroy the
> PM field?
To much current or to much heat (usually due to to much current) can ruin
the magnets. Too much voltage will only damage them if it leads to either
of the above.
>
> Thanks,
> Paul
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Guys,
I'm doing a sort of interactive publishing experiment - letting the net
vote on the design choices for my EV conversion. You can check it out at
http://buildmyev.com
Feedback is welcome.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here's a simple one. Cant remember how to figure out
my Wh/Mile . Also is there a site that has many of the
relevant formulas for us ev'ers.
Thanks, Jeff
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Feedback will cost you a dollar...
:)
On 7/25/07, Obrien, Haskell W. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hey Guys,
I'm doing a sort of interactive publishing experiment - letting the net
vote on the design choices for my EV conversion. You can check it out at
http://buildmyev.com
Feedback is welcome.
--
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1117
http://EVorBust.blogspot.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I need a battery that is as light as possible for my bicycle. Range
> doesn't matter (and not to pricey please)
>
> The controller for the bicycle only pulls 25 amps. Since it's just 25
> amps, can I use cell-phone batteries?
Maybe, if you parallel a whole bunch of them. 25 amps is a LOT compared
to what a cell phone draws, like maybe 50-100 times as much.
>
> Before I had sealed-lead acid batteries.
>
> Is it okay to use the original charger for a the new battery type?
> (lithium, NiMH, or Ni-cad probably)
Nope, not unless you want to ruin the new batteries.
> And how about the "fuel meter." Is it okay to use a different type of
> battery, (a different chemistry and probably a different amp-hour
> rating) with the same old "fuel meter." I think the "fuel meter" is
> really just a volt meter.
No harm done, but it won't be of any use. Most battery chemistries other
than Lead-Acid maintain a pretty stable voltage until near the end of
charge. So you "fuel" gauge will show 80%...80%...80% and then in a few
seconds drop to 0%
> Is it possible to harm the system in any kind of way by using a
> different battery type or amp-hour rating?
Maybe, if the voltage doesn't match.
Since you didn't mention any specifics about /your/ system, it's difficult
to give anything other than vague answers.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Yes, it does help alot! After careful reading and
> re-reading, I now understand.
>
> But I still have one pesky little question.
<snip>
>
> Why would the Zilla's output current drop if your
> accelerating? How
> could you accelerate if current is dropping without
> voltage
> increasing?
>
It's not quite straight forward; when trying to figure
this stuff out in your head, you can't think of a
motor as a resistor or something. I have to re-think
it through every time I try to explain it to someone.
In the process, it's becomming clearer (to me)
though...
The Zilla's output current drops because it can't
output any more voltage at this point. One of the
Zilla requirements for a series to parallel shift is
that the duty cycle has to be 100%. In other words,
just as if the motors were connected directly to the
battery pack (minus a small voltge drop of the igbts,
resistive losses, etc). So the Zilla is putting out
as much voltage as it can, and putting out current.
Since current is torque, torque is being applied to
the wheels. As long as the vehicle losses (wind
resistance, rolling resistance, losses in drivetrain,
going uphill, etc) are less than the torque out of the
motors, the vehicle will accelerate, or speed up. As
the motor RPMs increase (because the vehicle is
accelerating), the motors' back emf is also going up,
so the current is going down.
If motor torque is proportional to motor current, and
motor RPM is proportional to applied motor voltage,
why does the vehicle still accelerate when the
batteries are connected directly to the motors?
shouldn't the motors be at their max rpm for the given
battery voltage? There are several reasons for this.
First, consider that motors have what are called motor
constants. I think one is called Kv, expressed in RPM
per volt. If Kv was 100 RPM per volt, it would say
that the motor should spin at 1,200 RPM with 12 Volts
applied to it. Or it also says the back EMF is 12
Volts when spinning at 1,200 RPM (someone please
correct me if I'm wrong). But since motors have
winding resistance, if you apply 12V, the voltage the
part of the motor that counts sees is lower, by the
voltage drop through the windings. This voltage drop
goes down as current goes down, so the inside of the
motor sees more voltage and speeds up, as current goes
down. For example, lets say the above motor has 1/2
ohm of winding resistance and is drawing 12 amps. 12
amps times 1/2 Ohm is 6V drop, so the motor will only
see 12V - 6V drop = 6V, and will only spin 600 RPM.
Calculating the current draw of this motor, spinning
at 600 RPM, with 12V applied, we get a back EMF of
(600 RPM / (Kv=100 RPM per volt)) = 6V. The current
is (12 V applied voltage - 6V back EMF) / 0.5 Ohm
winding resistance = 12A.
Also, the car accelerates because as the motor current
drops, the battery voltage increases (due to the
battery's internal resistance, the wiring and
interconnect resistances, etc), and also the battery
simply "recovers" a bit as the load goes down, so more
voltage is applied to the motors this way.
I think that's enough of my rambling for now. I hope
that helped more than it confused :-)
- Steven Ciciora
____________________________________________________________________________________
Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search
http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=graduation+gifts&cs=bz
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I want to vote for an Audi A4 (model B6 (2001-2004) with 18 or 19" rims,
not convertible). costs about the same as the miata B
the newer B7 is nicer but costs more too
I would vote 100$ to that end. (if a car is eventually built, if not I
hope the money will be returned?)
Dan
Obrien, Haskell W. wrote:
Hey Guys,
I'm doing a sort of interactive publishing experiment - letting the net
vote on the design choices for my EV conversion. You can check it out at
http://buildmyev.com
Feedback is welcome.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Twelve Soneil/ACI 1206cc chargers have been onboard my
Geo Metro EV since Oct. 2006 with about 175 cycles and
over 1000 hours of operation so far. No charger
failures to date.
THe only imperfections to report are that one charger
shipped with a faulty fuse holder in the output wire
harness, and a loose connection developed in another
fuse holder during operation. Thanks to my Paktrakr,
the low battery voltage was spotted, and no battery
woes resulted.
Mark
--- "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> David and All,
> I have been running 16 Soneil model 1212SR chargers
> on-board the RX-7 for
> six years, and have had no failures from vibration.
> I believe they were
> designed for on-board wheelchair use. What model
> are you using?
> BB
>
> >From: "David Sherritze" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 19:55:28 -0500
> >
> >I used Soneils on a string of six - 12 volt
> batteries.
> >
> >I never had to disconnect the string.
> >
> >The problem I had is they were mounted on board the
> vehicle and could not
> >stand the vibration and kept failing.
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's
Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when.
http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee:
Here are a few names in Orange and Los Angeles County.
Mike Kane [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mike has an all electric family and
is a co-founder of PIA so has many referenes.)
Bob Siebert (me) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Greg Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Greg "co-invented the plug-in hybrid)
Paul Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Paul is president of the EV
Assn. of So. CAl and a co-founder of PIA)
/Bob
On Jul 24, 2007, at 7:34 PM, Lee Hart wrote:
A friend of mine, Herb Johnson, is on vacation in Los Angeles. He
knows I'm an EV nut, and asked whether there were any he could see
while in this "hotbed of EV activity".
He's an engineer, computer junkie, and a "techie" at heart, so we
may be able to sway him to the EV cause. Does anyone have any
suggestions I could pass onto him?
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A modern cell phone battery is 3.7 volts, and less than 1AH. Designed
for a maximum discharge rate of about C/4 (or at least that's the
highest you'll see in a cell phone usually). So, to get a 24 volt,
25AH bank (assuming you could discharge them at C/1), would require
200 to 300 cell phone batteries.
How about D-size NiMH batteries. They are about $16 each for 9AH
ones, so $640 for a 18AH 24 volt pack.... the AA ones are alot
cheaper actually. More like $350 for the same pack. A couple of
cordless tool battery packs in parallel might be cheaper yet.
But, a 18AH lead acid AGM is alot less.... you can see why it was the
stock battery.
Z
On 7/25/07, Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I need a battery that is as light as possible for my bicycle. Range
> doesn't matter (and not to pricey please)
>
> The controller for the bicycle only pulls 25 amps. Since it's just 25
> amps, can I use cell-phone batteries?
Maybe, if you parallel a whole bunch of them. 25 amps is a LOT compared
to what a cell phone draws, like maybe 50-100 times as much.
>
> Before I had sealed-lead acid batteries.
>
> Is it okay to use the original charger for a the new battery type?
> (lithium, NiMH, or Ni-cad probably)
Nope, not unless you want to ruin the new batteries.
> And how about the "fuel meter." Is it okay to use a different type of
> battery, (a different chemistry and probably a different amp-hour
> rating) with the same old "fuel meter." I think the "fuel meter" is
> really just a volt meter.
No harm done, but it won't be of any use. Most battery chemistries other
than Lead-Acid maintain a pretty stable voltage until near the end of
charge. So you "fuel" gauge will show 80%...80%...80% and then in a few
seconds drop to 0%
> Is it possible to harm the system in any kind of way by using a
> different battery type or amp-hour rating?
Maybe, if the voltage doesn't match.
Since you didn't mention any specifics about /your/ system, it's difficult
to give anything other than vague answers.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
try
Leo Galcher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
LA eaav rep
or come to San Diego as we have lots to see
kEVs
--- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> A friend of mine, Herb Johnson, is on vacation in
> Los Angeles. He knows
> I'm an EV nut, and asked whether there were any he
> could see while in
> this "hotbed of EV activity".
>
> He's an engineer, computer junkie, and a "techie" at
> heart, so we may be
> able to sway him to the EV cause. Does anyone have
> any suggestions I
> could pass onto him?
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows.
Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So why are many on this list so cruel to the poor trolls. Obviously there is
a problem that makes the person behave in this manner. Remember we are all
humans and we all need love. Maybe there has been very bad experiences in
his childhood that has caused this anti social and arrogant behavior. Maybe
it is drug induced. We do not know. We should try to have understanding.
Instead of attacking trolls we should show compassion and love. We are only
feeding the psychosis by giving the negative attention the troll craves.
Roderick Wilde
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Willmon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 8:36 PM
Subject: RE: To Feed or Not To Feed (the troll) [was: RE:
No use getting in a fight with a pig, you'll only get dirty, and the pig
likes it :-O
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.16/914 - Release Date: 7/23/2007
7:45 PM
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Haskell W. Obrien wrote...
> I'm doing a sort of interactive publishing experiment - letting the
> net vote on the design choices for my EV conversion. You can check it
> out at http://buildmyev.com
>
> Feedback is welcome.
feedback? i'll give you feedback... we should pay a dollar to 'vote' on
which car you'll convert? ummm... good luck with that.
m.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Anyone looked into upgrading an NEV, it looks like this may be a viable option
as the price of
NEVs are getting more and more competitive. We all know that a conversion is
not as cheap as many
of us would like.
If we could get a http://www.flybo-ev.com/ car to go 10 miles further and 10mph
faster that would
be a nice accomplishment.
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows.
Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 10:34:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kevin Lura <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Upgrading NEV as alternative to ICE conversion
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Thanks for the info, I did email you off list BTW.
Anyways, I would like to get more range mostly to conserve battery life, the
website says that the
packs are good for 500 charges, and I take most of what that site says with a
grain of salt.
Longer range means less discharge from the batteries with my average commute
and more cycles.
For my drive to work my average speed is slooowwww, yet I would like to be able
to hit 45 in a
couple places.
>From what michael says it seems like there may be some room to upgrade the
>controller? Not sure
about that though. 95% of my driving would be with a single passenger, would
that give me room to
add more batteries?
If there is not room for improvement I could always put away a fraction of the
$ I save on gas and
get a nicd, nimh, lipo pack and controller when the stock pack dies in 500
cycles.
--- Michael Barkley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I know a guy in Dallas, Texas who has some Xtra
> Flybo's if you want to get one. I can't wait to go
> look at them, as they use a contactor controller,
> operated by a cam & micro switches via the foot pedal,
> some of the vehicles he has runs on 48vdc packs, and
> others on 72vdc packs. If you want his number,
> offlist email me and I'll get it to you. I believe he
> has 6 units, and is going to sell 4 of them.
>
>
> --- Kevin Lura <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Anyone looked into upgrading an NEV, it looks like
> > this may be a viable option as the price of
> > NEVs are getting more and more competitive. We all
> > know that a conversion is not as cheap as many
> > of us would like.
> >
> > If we could get a http://www.flybo-ev.com/ car to go
> > 10 miles further and 10mph faster that would
> > be a nice accomplishment.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> > Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship
> > answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers -
> > Check it out.
> >
> http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433
> >
> >
>
>
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