EV Digest 7068

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Simple Controller
        by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) A123 on TV this weekend
        by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: DIY Electric Car Forums
        by "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) evision
        by Brian Jackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: Upgrading NEV as alternative to ICE conversion
        by Brian Jackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: Porsche to make hybrids
        by Brian Jackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) RE: DIY Electric Car Forums - and Jim Husted time :-)
        by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) diode across contactors
        by Tim Gamber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: DIY Electric Car Forums
        by Brian Jackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) contactor voltage
        by Tim Gamber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: DIY Electric Car Forums
        by "Al" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) interesting electric bike design
        by Ian Page-Echols <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) article: Sonex unveils electric-powered sport plane
        by Paul Wujek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: contactor voltage
        by Ian Hooper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) Re: Simple Controller
        by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: What is the typical amperage draw of the field for a sepex motor?
        by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: contactor voltage
        by "Mark Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: What is the typical amperage draw of the field for a sepex motor?
        by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: DIY Electric Car Forums
        by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: Bridgestone Ecopia EP-03 Tires
        by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: Karmann Ghia Design - System voltage
        by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Help!  Zilla problems
        by "R. Matt Milliron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) the Bandwagon
        by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: Bridgestone Ecopia EP-03 Tires
        by "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) Re: DIY Electric Car Forums
        by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) Re: Help!  Zilla problems
        by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Dan I am certainly NOT afraid of change!!!

I am one of the ones making it happen.

I have to adhear to the laws of Phyics and reality...

You aparently do not.

Madman
----- Original Message ----- > nah, I figure if I do this it won't be
necessary to tell people what
> they did : )  the odd hint perhaps :)
> you are not idiots, just afraid of change. caught in the system. who
knows.
>
> Dan
>

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You'll also be able to watch it online(potentially Friday evening, if
not on Saturday):

http://www.autolinedetroit.tv/

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
yeah, I participate on about 4 online forums for various types of cars
that seem to use the same software as this one.  And a subaru one that
is alot better (it has about 20,000 members too, so I think they had
to get a higher priced software to keep it from dying).   And the EVDL
and another email discussion list.   There's different advantages of
each.   By the time you get the traffic level of the subaru list, an
email format would kill you, even with gmail to sort and archive
(which I love -- we use the paid version of gmail for our business
email for our company of about 25 people -- after looking into what
else was available, and hating it all).  But the smaller discussion
groups, I like the email format better... you don't have to remember
to check it, and you actually sort of DO want to see everything,
instead of ignoring 90% of it.  Not saying that I wouldn't go to a
webforum if that was where everyone else was, but I like EVDL okay the
way it is now.

Z



On 7/26/07, Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
It is set up like many forums that are on line.  The whole thing is like one
big archieve.   I'm on a Chevy 6.2L Diesel forum just like it.  It's ok.
Seems like good folks but I'm not giving up on the EVDL.  Lawrence
Rhodes.......



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--- Begin Message ---
Looks like a pretty neat unit.

http://www.metricmind.com/evision.htm

Brian


---- Eduardo Kaftanski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

=============

I just bought one.

Shipped to Chile for what just shipping would be for a curtis one. I-ll
gamble :)

> 
> >Hi, All,
> >
> >Has anyone tried the above (available on Ebay auction # 150143859148)? 
> >Half
> >the cost (in the UK at least) of a real PB6.
> >
> >Regards, MW
> >

-- 
Eduardo K.            | Darwin pone las reglas.
http://www.carfun.cl  | Murphy, la oportunidad.
http://ev.nn.cl       | 
                      |         Yo.

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Some of the parts you mentioned really never go bad. I mean, by the time an EGR 
or PCV valve goes bad, the car is usually ready for the scrap heap anyway. In 
fact, a tired engine is usually the cause of failure for these items. These 
things generall don't fail until some time after the 170,000 mile mark. Of 
course, brake pads are common to EVs and IC cars. I guess I'm spoiled since I 
do all of my own maintenance. I usually do a round of tune ups once a year or 
so on all of our cars (all 7 of them). Most of our cars are pretty old and 
unreliable, so they DO require significant maintenance. Newer, better 
engineered cars just don't require that kind of maintenance though. Again, not 
a single mechanical failure on our 8 year old Toyota. All I do regular... ish 
tune ups. I have only replaced the belts and air filter once. Oh well, if EV 
batteries do actually last as long as 7 years (is that an average number or an 
exceptional number?) then EV maintenance is pretty low. How often !
 do flooded batteries have to be topped off tough? I hear that they need to be 
cleaned from time to time as well. 

I know I'm not going to get a lot of support here. I am just skeptical about 
the claimed maintenance gap... nay, grand canyon... between EVs and ICs.

Brian



---- "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

=============
PCV valves, EGR valves, oil filters, oil replacement/refilling,
transmission fluid replacement/refilling, brake pads, spark plugs,
serpentine belts, timing belts/chains, batteries, and hoses need to be
replaced. That's alot! You're supposed to change all these parts
sometime in the ownership of your vehicle. Add the cost of labor and
you're looking at a couple grand easy.

A dealership only makes a few thousand dollars of profit on each car
they sell, so when you add in the maintenance money, profit goes up
alot counting it per car.

Of course, few people actually replace all these parts as they should.
So most cars usually go a few years with no maintenance and then go to
the dealership, and then are hit with a huge bill.

EVs literally require no maintenance. There could be transmission
fluid, and there might be cooling fluid, but that's it. Nothing else,
unless you take in account batteries. Modern batteries will last about
7+ years before becoming in desperate need of replacement. (Rav4 EVs
have proven even longer, but new EVs are using the more immature
Li-ion)
Once you look at the cost of the battery (15k ?) and compare it to the
cost of that new car you've been looking at, buying a new car doesn't
seem so outrageous. Dealerships might make money by recycling the
battery or selling it used or something, but I doubt that it makes as
much money as ICE car maintenance because then dealerships would have
no problem with EVs.

On 7/26/07, Brian Jackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> All this talk about low maintenance EVs versus IC powered vehicles. Is it 
> really so profound a difference? My wife drives a 98 Tacoma that has never 
> been in the shop for anything other than plugs, wires, air filters, oil 
> filters and oil. Shoot, I think the thing is still on its original battery. 
> Wow, that thing is 9 years old. Maybe I should replace it one of these days. 
> We have never serviced the brakes, and they show no sign of fading to this 
> day. We have probably spend about $100 per year on basic tune up stuff. Are 
> EVs really that much better?
>
> Maybe if we were comparing EV maintenance to American car reliability. A Yugo 
> is probably more reliable than our 40,000 mile '01 Dodge 1/2 ton. What a pile 
> that thing is. Sigh. Poor American cars.
>
>
> ---- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> =============
> <<<<
> IMHO
> It is political. we may want electric vehicles but
> there are powerful folks who want to make them as
> inconvient and unuasable as possible. It really has
> nothing to do with saftey. Untill Toyota, Ford, GM
> etc make electrics (which they will only do when
> forced to) we will all have an up hill battle.
>
> --- Zeke Yewdall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > >
> > > Not to mention illegal in most states and possibly
> > unsafe.
> > >
> >
> > I think that the requirement that NEV's not go
> > faster than 25mph is
> > quite unsafe. Because they are allowed on roads
> > with speed limits of
> > 35 and below. We all know that when the speed limit
> > is 35, everyone
> > is going more like 40.
> >>>>
>
> I drive one of the EV Rangers that Ford was forced to make (then publicly 
> shamed
> into selling what wasn't already crushed), so we *know* it's possible. They
> could get just as much profit from the original sale of an EV as the ICE
> equivalent, but Henry Ford, when asked about the low price of Model T's, said
> something like "I could give them away and make all my profit on upkeep" -
> without an engine or transmission, what would keep the dealers afloat?  I have
> to admit, I do feel safer in a pickup at 70mph than an NEV on busy
> streets...but then, I don't bicycle very often either!
>
>


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lol, does your 74 bug have a nav system? AC? heat (haha even the IC bugs didn't 
have very good heat) intermittant wipers? cruise controll? anti lock brakes? I 
think that its great that main stream manufacturers are planning on making cars 
like these. You may be willing to drive that bug of yours (heck, so would I) 
but most consumers are not. The auto industry needs cars like this one. We can 
not burn fossil fuels for even.

Brian


---- Richard Acuti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

=============
Pfftt...my '74 Bug cruises at 70 mph.

Cost: $5250.00

Rich A.

To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Porsche to make hybrids
MIME-Version: 1.0
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 08:33:20 -0400
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Cruise at 70mph on the electric engine?
Wow.
Starts at $44,000? More than I can afford, but far less than I would have
expected.

I can't wait to hear what the plug-in-modders do to this thing!


Ed Cooley

_________________________________________________________________
Local listings, incredible imagery, and driving directions - all in one 
place! http://maps.live.com/?wip=69&FORM=MGAC01

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 --- Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> I feel I don't have time enough for the EVDL

--- Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Jim,
> You're one of the best resources on this list for
> motor information!  

Hey Rod

Thanks, I try 8^)  FWIW I wasn't trying to imply that
my time is any more valued than anyone elses either
8^P  In fact I've learned far more than I've taught
here at the EVDL!

I send people here almost EVery week 8^)  In fact, I
had back to back calls yesterday after work and spent
an hour between them finding out where they were at on
the learning curve and directing them to the EV photo
album and here to the EVDL so they can wet their
chompers before starting an EV they won't be happy
with.  One of my moto's I start out with is "I don't
want to help create EVer's, I want to help create
happy EVer's" and that starts out with educated
consumers 8^)

> If you feel overwhelmed, perhaps
> we can send a secret code word in the subject line
> to
> get your attention?  Something like Jim, WTF, I have
> a
> motor question.

It's funny you should bring this up!  Anymore, I'm
getting spammed to death!  My filters bag most of them
but I still have to sort through them as a post from
(let's say Mike Willmon) which might be titled  "My
new TransWarp shaft love you long time",(or something
like that gets filtered also), LMAO.
So it seems I generaly have to sift through mine so I
don't trash a legit email that my filters didn't like.

> Thanks again for all of your contributions to the
> list.
> Between you, Lee Hart and Jeff Major I'm learning
> new
> things every day.

Likewise here, both Lee (who's been a long time
outstanding member here) and Jeff who is another go to
guy with serious hands on knowlege teach me a lot of
stuff that didn't really apply to what I was doing LBL
(life before list)hehe.  Actually Jeff and I talk a
fair amount off list in fact 8^)

FWIW I like the list! and although it's not perfect
IMO neither are the web based forums.  I do feel stuff
like this motor FAQ's page I'm doing (if I can EVer
get it finished)(sorry guys but it'll be fall or
winter before done) would be a great subject for this
forum, and they are more than welcome to paste it
there, I doubt I'll alot much time there, as I feel my
home is here at the EVDL and in fact don't do any
other lists.  I guess just like in building motors, I
believe in quality over quantity 8^) and (for me)
doing more than one list would delute my time here.
Anyway for good or bad if you want a piece of me you
come to the EVDL.

> Keep up the good work (until John, Bill Dube, or
> Mike
> W. scorches your next motor :-)
> Rod

You know, them pricks are never happy are they, give
them a tenth and they want a whole second!  If nothing
else it gives all you plasma lusting motor death fans
a reason to come on out to the NEDRA Nationals tenth
aniversary as Wayland and Tim crank up those Hawkers
being he's only had them running at 2/3rds power!

Had fun, 
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric




       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search 
that gives answers, not web links. 
http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC

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You're talking about a prety antiquated system. Proboards and VBulletin type 
systems are much easier to use.

Brian


---- Dave Davidson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

=============
I disagree.  I belong to a group that uses the web based message system and 
is is a pain in the @$$ to use.  Topics come up in the order they were 
created, and there are currently 223 of them!  I find myself constantly 
having to look, page forward, backward, wait, wait, wait (and I have cable 
internet).  I get so frustrated that I seldom look at it anymore, and have 
hundreds of messages I haven't seen, many just saying "Me too", but they 
just show up as new messages in that topic,  so I have to load the entire 
thread just to check them.  I much prefer this email based system.  I can 
look at my email subjects and delete the subjects I'm no longer interested 
in, and if an email is a "me too", I can quickly delete it. Much easier to 
use.  If someone shuffles these messages into a web based system by topics, 
more power to them, but I'll never use it.  I much prefer the emali based 
KISS system.

Dave



>From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>Subject: Re: DIY Electric Car Forums
>Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 16:16:56 +0200
>
>right on
>if the leadership here said we're moving it would happen over night without 
>any problems and they would no doubt like it
>a few are just afraid of change, even for the better. ironically much the 
>same mentality that is the cause of the EV delay.
>and then the bulk here are afraid to voice an opinion either way. as if 
>independent thought was a fatal disease.
>
>this is not a case of having two fora, it's an upgrade.
>
>Dan
>
>Kip C. Anderson wrote:
>>As the former operator of a mailing list, all it took from me to 
>>transition it's users to a web based forum was putting it up and 
>>ecnouraging people to use it.  Within weeks, list traffic dropped from 
>>30-40 messages per day to 1-2 messages per day.  That list is still in 
>>existance 7 years later, but I have not seen a single message go through 
>>it in the last 3.  The php based forum that i started (and no longer 
>>manage) continues to go on strong today with nearly 3500 registered users. 
>>  That should tell you something about what most people really prefer.
>>
>>- Kip
>>
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "BrownGassyTurd" 
>><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
>>Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 12:09 AM
>>Subject: Re: DIY Electric Car Forums
>>
>>
>>>As it was recruitment for another souce of EV info,  I wouldn't have
>>>considered it spam; and even though I did not receive an email invite,
>>>I'm glad you guys made me aware of it.
>>>I've heard attempts at  web based "EVDL replacements" (if you choose
>>>to consider them that) have failed in the past, but don't see why they
>>>can't co-exist and even complement each other.
>>>The way some here speak of those new-fangled web based boards makes me
>>>wonder if the EVDL's mission is being fulfilled to the fullest extent
>>>possible.
>>>The EVDL is currently like a secret handshake to new users. Just look
>>>at the amount of people not "getting" the text only format and bugging
>>>the hell out of the veterans.
>>>I'm just glad that other forms of disseminating EV info exists.
>>>YouTube videos of White Zombie to complement the stories here is an
>>>awesome (cool, groovy, tight, sweet, [insert your generation's slang
>>>for swell]) experience.
>>>Here's hoping that Robert Green makes it, and/or that someone else
>>>tries again if he doesn't succeed.
>>>
>>>Still bummed I wasn't worthy of an invite though,
>>>Manny
>>
>>
>

_________________________________________________________________
http://liveearth.msn.com

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* If your postings display this message your mail program *
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--- Begin Message --- With all due respect, I agree with Kip, mailing lists were for the days of 9k6 baud modems. It probably takes more bandwidth to send out hundreds of messages to everybody on the list than it does to have users log on and view the messages they are actually interested in. I realize there are factors that I am not aware of, but this is the 21st century.
Al

----- Original Message ----- From: "Kip C. Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 11:46 PM
Subject: Re: DIY Electric Car Forums


Scam?  Like what?

The facts are:

- Most people on this list would like to see EVs go mainstream.
- Allot of people on this list have no idea how to search the archive or where to go to do it, nor do they wish to take the time to figure it out when a web forum offers the convenience right in front of their faces on every single page.

Mailing lists of this size are unwieldy and antiquated - and not readily embraced by the AOL/MySpace generation of internet users.

I

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- I found the bike store Clever Chimp recently in my searchings for saddlebags for my bike. They sell, among other things, FreeRadical kits by Xtracycle, which attaches to the back of a normal bike and allows you to carry a ton of stuff on there (one of the images on the Xtracycle site shows a biker carrying a kayak!).

What I just found was that Clever Chimp is selling an electric kit for bikes equipped this way. Looks pretty well thought out. Batteries are 36 volt NiMH (choice of 9 or 13Ah at 12 and 19 lbs) and it sounds like the motor and mountings are around 20 lbs. Top speeds of around 30 mph, and a range of around 50 miles (can't find this again, but I remember reading that number, most likely with the larger battery?), and $1350 for the kit. You're talking almost 70 lbs for a full bike set up this way, so might be best as a 2nd bike. Very tempting.

http://www.xtracycle.com/freerad.php (North San Juan & Emeryville, CA)
http://cleverchimp.com/products/stokemonkey/ (Portland)

Ian

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--- Begin Message ---
Now, for a completely different vehicle:

http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/26/sonex-unveils-electric-powered-sport-plane/

--
Paul Wujek   ([EMAIL PROTECTED])

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--- Begin Message ---
Hi Tim,

On 27/07/2007, at 9:45 AM, Tim Gamber wrote:

why is a diode across a contactor necessary and what does it do?

If it's the diode I think you mean, i.e a Zener diode (or two) across the coil, it's there to snub the inductive spike from the coil when the contactor is turned off.

Otherwise the collapsing magnetic field in the coil causes a voltage spike which can damage whatever electronics is turning the contactor on/off. It's always useful but only really necessary if your contactor is electronically controlled (e.g using a Zilla or Belktronix).

is the contactor in an electric vehicle seeing full pack voltage or is it running off of seperate 12 volt power?

The contactor's coil runs of separate 12-volt power and is electrically isolated from the traction pack. The other half of the contactor (the actual contacts) do see full pack voltage.

-Ian

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--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
My EV is a Renault LeCar, with an ADC L91 6.7" motor and Curtis 1231C controller, turned down to 400 amps max...

Dan Frederiksen wrote:
I have pondered if a 6.7" or two would be more lean in some way than
bigger [motors].

This 2400 lbs car has a relatively small 750 lbs battery pack. The 6.7" motor has a 1-hour rating of about 12 hp. It actually takes more like 15 hp to move this car at 70 mph. So, I couldn't drive at 70 mph for more than 30-40 minutes before the motor overheated. But this doesn't matter, because the lightweight pack can't supply that much power for even 30 minutes.

Bigger motors don't deliver more horsepower -- that's determined by the controller (and sometimes the batteries). But a bigger motor lets you get the same horsepower for longer before it overheats.

I had gotten the impression that Curtis based cars faded out about
freeway speeds because of the relatively low voltage. Is the 6.7" less
hungry in some way or do all 1231 small cars go 65mph+?

The controller is fully "on" at freeway speeds, so it isn't limiting things. The batteries are in effect connected directly to the motor, and the current the motor draws is controlled only by pack voltage and motor RPM. To go faster, you shift to a higher gear, to make the motor turn slower, and so draw more current, and so make more horsepower. Seems backwards to ICE drivers; but that's how it's done with a series motor!

Things get exponentially more complicated, not linear. I.e. going
from 500a to 1000a is more than twice the cost.

I know you are using exponentially loosely here but how do you mean
it gets harder? Matching transistors?

Just that as you go up in current and voltage, you cross various plateaus and thresholds. You transition from mass produced commodity parts to specialized low-production parts. Normal PC board techniques give way to buss bars. Normal heatsinks become special water-cooled ones. IC drivers get replaced with discrete transistor drivers.

I noticed you agreed with me on a few issues contrary to a detractor.
I hope that will save me from some of their balking.

No; you will save (or condemn) yourself, based on what you say and do. :-)

I try to pay attention to *what* people say, rather than *who* said it. I read posts without looking at who said it. So, I will respond to well reasoned posts even from people I might otherwise vigorously disagree with on many other topics.

We need more experts ("this is true because of these facts"), and fewer authorities ("This is true because I say so").
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net

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Jeff Major wrote:
IIRC, 37 percent increase in resistance was 120 degree
C rise.  This is what could be used on a class H
motor.

What I use is Thot = Tcold + (K x ((Rhot - Rcold) / Rcold))

where K = 256.4 for copper
      Thot = hot temperature in deg.C
      Tcold = cold temperature in deg.C
      Rhot = resistance at hot temperature in ohms
      Rcold = resistance at cold temperature in ohms

Also, he should have the appropriate ventilation during the test.

Yes; run whatever blower or airflow the motor would normally have had. The easiest way to do such a test is to actually run the motor on the bench at its normal RPM, so its internal fan (if so equipped) is working normally. Measure the field resistance when cold (at room temperature) before you start, and again after running the motor for a while.

A few years ago, I came across a smaller sepex GE
motor with a private brand nameplate, so I figured I
was on my own to figure out how to control it.  Also
had a freebie Curtis sepex with a custom software.  I
was able to adjust field map parameters, but needed
motor info.  So I ran a no load magnetization curve
and was able to tell when it saturated and how far
down to field weaken it.  Very helpful.

That's a good idea, too. Run the motor and keep increasing the field strength, noting the RPM decrease it causes. The field is saturating when 10% more field current only reduces RPM by (say) 5%.

I've often thought one could build a pretty handy motor "characterizer" with nothing but a battery pack, on/off contactor, and free-spinning motor. Use a computer with some simple instrumentation to measure voltage, current and RPM. The software would switch on the motor, and measure its power as it speeds up. The motor's own inertia forms the load.

--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net

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--- Begin Message --- The coil of the contactor is run by a separate voltage from the pack voltage. They are typically 12 volts. In my case I use a 48V coil.

Mark Ward
95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
Worlds first 'New Generation' Saab EV
www.saabrina.blogspot.com

----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Gamber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "post post" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 8:45 PM
Subject: contactor voltage



is the contactor in an electric vehicle seeing full pack voltage or is it running off of seperate 12 volt power?
_________________________________________________________________
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Zeke Yewdall wrote:
155 degree C, as in 312 degrees F?  That seems awfully hot for a motor
to me.  I guess it's good, but I thought you were normally supposed to
keep them below 100C or so...

That's the internal winding temperature. The external temperature will never get this hot (hopefully!)

--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net

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Guys this comes up every few months. And Al there is
an issue. Do you read the list from a dial up modem.
Some of us due- not me personally but it has been
talked about. Have you visited a Web based forum with
a cellphone and internet's connection.  The Email
based sessions are much easier to read on email verses
web based forums because you have to search for what
your looking for. Email is straight forward. 

--- Al <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> With all due respect, I agree with Kip, mailing
> lists were for the days of 
> 9k6 baud modems. It probably takes more bandwidth to
> send out hundreds of 
> messages to everybody on the list than it does to
> have users log on and view 
> the messages they are actually interested in. I
> realize there are factors 
> that I am not aware of, but this is the 21st
> century.
> Al
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Kip C. Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 11:46 PM
> Subject: Re: DIY Electric Car Forums
> 
> 
> > Scam?  Like what?
> >
> > The facts are:
> >
> > - Most people on this list would like to see EVs
> go mainstream.
> > - Allot of people on this list have no idea how to
> search the archive or 
> > where to go to do it, nor do they wish to take the
> time to figure it out 
> > when a web forum offers the convenience right in
> front of their faces on 
> > every single page.
> >
> > Mailing lists of this size are unwieldy and
> antiquated - and not readily 
> > embraced by the AOL/MySpace generation of internet
> users.
> >
> > I 
> 
> 



       
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Well I had one in my hand today and then it was taken
away. I received a call late last week saying they
found a set of them hidden in a warehouse in
California, cool! I received a call this morning
informing me they had arrived. Having been caught off
guard without wheels I said I'd just come by and pay
for them and take them so they wouldn't be taking up
space in their store after all I had gone through to
get them.

I was on my way to get them and I received another
call, they started looking closely at them and they
discovered the date code on two of them was for 2000
and the other two were for 2001. I'm not sure if it
was a legal thing, or just corporate policy but they
wouldn't sell me a tire that was that old. I asked if
I could at least come look at them after all that,
they said yes. I held one in my hand and examined the
sidewall. Sure enough molded in to the side wall were
the words "For Electric Vehicle Use Only" I'm sure
they had some extra load capacity built in, they were
51psi tires. The tread looked all sorts of funky, this
is the tire efficient EV wet dreams are made out of.
It was in my hand and I couldn't take it.

So we're back to the drawing board, but I'm assured I
will eventually get a good set of them... I just have
the feeling they are going to have to come from Japan
now for real. I really really want to put a set on a
car and see how they compare, I have high
expectations.

Later,
Rick
92 Saturn SC conversion
AZ Alt Fuel Plates "ZEROGAS"


       
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--- Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> Deb,
> 
> I'd suggest looking at John Bryan's Ghia:
> 
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/34
> 
> He uses 16 Optimas and has gotten very good results.
>  Notably, he claims
> a range of 60 miles.
> 
> Ralph

I actually got a ride in JB's car last year coming
back from Joliet.  EVen with 11 year old batteries and
four adults crammed in this car still had pep!  This
car is a perfect example of how to do it right!  JB
wanted me to look at his motor since I was there 8^) 
I told him it looked like it was just installed!  It
was in absolutely beautiful condition.  Anyway I've
been meaning to chime in here as it is a great vehicle
to draw from being I've had a ride in it 8^)
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric



       
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  I do not want to send My Zilla 1k-LV back to the shop.  I am hoping
that the EV-Brain trust can help me.

  Short story.  I got my Zilla.  Hooked it up and it ran.  Drove my
car for 2 miles.  Parked it, turned everything off.  Started chargers
and went to bed.  Next day she won't run.  Hairball will not talk to
the power unit.  Also there is a 56 volt short too ground/body of the
car.  I figured that it was the motor.  Got the motor back from the
shop, with a clean bill of health and a bill.  Hooked it to the Zilla
(1132 error) hairball will not talk to the power unit.  I also have a
56 volt short to ground/body of car.   If I disconnect Zilla (M+) from
motor, short goes away.  If I move the volt meter one battery farther
from the Zilla, the short drops 6 volts.   Is this something with the
motor or Zilla?  Is it something I can test for.

  My feeling is that this is just something that happens.  Some
component in the power unit, stressed itself and failed.  I just don't
want to be wrong.

TIA

  R. M. Milliron

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
1981 Jet Electrica  
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/702

  This machine has been garaged for 17 years. 
I am upgrading it and getting it running. Tabitha,
my daughter, named it, "Pikachu". It's yellow and black,
electric and contains Japanese parts, so I went with it.

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Toyota and honda made the hybrid popular enough for it to become the
'in' thing. Now all the car companies are jumping on the band wagon.
Hopefully Tesla will generate the same kind of momentum for EV's. It may
be the hybrid manufacturers who jump on that band wagon.

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As terribly ridiculous it sounds, it's true unfortunately. Tires that
are over 6 years old have aged, believe it or not from just sitting
there. The tires, despite little/no use, have deteriated enough to
make them dangerous. This article talks all about  it:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/05/27/eveningnews/consumer/main698335.shtml

I'm sorry to hear that, and I kind of doubt that any EV tires have
been produced in the last six years or so. Well, there are the Tesla
Roadster tires. I've heard that the Roadster's tires have a "good" RR
number.

On 7/26/07, Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Well I had one in my hand today and then it was taken
> away. I received a call late last week saying they
> found a set of them hidden in a warehouse in
> California, cool! I received a call this morning
> informing me they had arrived. Having been caught off
> guard without wheels I said I'd just come by and pay
> for them and take them so they wouldn't be taking up
> space in their store after all I had gone through to
> get them.
>
> I was on my way to get them and I received another
> call, they started looking closely at them and they
> discovered the date code on two of them was for 2000
> and the other two were for 2001. I'm not sure if it
> was a legal thing, or just corporate policy but they
> wouldn't sell me a tire that was that old. I asked if
> I could at least come look at them after all that,
> they said yes. I held one in my hand and examined the
> sidewall. Sure enough molded in to the side wall were
> the words "For Electric Vehicle Use Only" I'm sure
> they had some extra load capacity built in, they were
> 51psi tires. The tread looked all sorts of funky, this
> is the tire efficient EV wet dreams are made out of.
> It was in my hand and I couldn't take it.
>
> So we're back to the drawing board, but I'm assured I
> will eventually get a good set of them... I just have
> the feeling they are going to have to come from Japan
> now for real. I really really want to put a set on a
> car and see how they compare, I have high
> expectations.
>
> Later,
> Rick
> 92 Saturn SC conversion
> AZ Alt Fuel Plates "ZEROGAS"
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! 
> FareChase.
> http://farechase.yahoo.com/
>
>

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Man you got me thinking too.
I have run a few PHP  boards and I am a member of many forums. But I
wouldn't change a thing on this list (except fix the truncated emails
and maybe some more aggressive rules). I really prefer this  KISS format
. There is just no need in my mind to turn this Electric car into a
hybrid hummer. :-)

With that said...

I write software for a living now(finally) And in one of our products
space is a real constraint. I can see where some ideas can apply.

In a web based list we could use a perl/python/ruby  script to find
large blocks of repeated text and collapse it into a link the second
time it is displayed. It would reduce bandwidth while make the repeated
info available with a click. If 5 people reply to a large post in a
single day (these usually end up on one screen in a threaded forum to)
the text appears once and links everywhere else in the page.

OK, back to EV's
  Today on the way to work a women in a large SUV ept accelerating up
behind me rather quickly at each light. Finnally she took the lane next
to me  at the red light and the conversation went something like this:

her: "Is that really electric?"
     me:  "yup, no gasoline at all"
her: "How much did it cost to convert?"
    me: about 8 thousand but being a red sports car I didn't want it to
be slow"
her: " It is Fast"
  

She made my day.


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Hey Matt

Being you just had the motor worked on I doubt there
is a short to frame there.  I've seen where assuming
gets you so taking a test of the motor is easy.  Use a
multi-meter and see whether you have continuity
between any terminal from the housing.  

While you're there testing it, do a 12 volt bench test
to see that the motor does in fact work (if you didn't
already after getting it back from the shop) again
just to make sure so you can cross this segment off
the list so to speak.

Being that the motor's been worked on and the problem
remains it adds to it not being the issue but like I
said if you want to cross it off you'll at least know.
 

Bummer to hear you're having troubles, keep the chin
up and trace it till you find the little bugger 8^)

Sorry I can't help more on the controller but Otmar
wouldn't let me see the insides of one 8^o, LMAO!
(kind of a private / public joke) 8^P  No diff really
as I couldn't tell ya what I saw if I saw it, being
I'm the motor guy 8^)

Hope this helps a little ><
Best of luck
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric




--- "R. Matt Milliron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
>   I do not want to send My Zilla 1k-LV back to the
> shop.  I am hoping
> that the EV-Brain trust can help me.
> 
>   Short story.  I got my Zilla.  Hooked it up and it
> ran.  Drove my
> car for 2 miles.  Parked it, turned everything off. 
> Started chargers
> and went to bed.  Next day she won't run.  Hairball
> will not talk to
> the power unit.  Also there is a 56 volt short too
> ground/body of the
> car.  I figured that it was the motor.  Got the
> motor back from the
> shop, with a clean bill of health and a bill. 
> Hooked it to the Zilla
> (1132 error) hairball will not talk to the power
> unit.  I also have a
> 56 volt short to ground/body of car.   If I
> disconnect Zilla (M+) from
> motor, short goes away.  If I move the volt meter
> one battery farther
> from the Zilla, the short drops 6 volts.   Is this
> something with the
> motor or Zilla?  Is it something I can test for.
> 
>   My feeling is that this is just something that
> happens.  Some
> component in the power unit, stressed itself and
> failed.  I just don't
> want to be wrong.
> 
> TIA
> 
>   R. M. Milliron
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 1981 Jet Electrica  
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/702
> 
>   This machine has been garaged for 17 years. 
> I am upgrading it and getting it running. Tabitha,
> my daughter, named it, "Pikachu". It's yellow and
> black,
> electric and contains Japanese parts, so I went with
> it.
> 
> 



      
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