EV Digest 7070
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Speed controller project
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) AGNS and OJ make record runs in Memphis, TN
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
3) RE: Shock Jocks
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Heater Relay Dropout Issue
by Mark Dutko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: ETA on Electro Auto adapters
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Bridgestone Ecopia EP-03 Tires
by "Kip C. Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) How are you protecting the Zilla Hairball?
by Paul Wallace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Bridgestone Ecopia EP-03 Tires
by Andrew Letton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Zilla Radiator- Fan/ no Fan
by Mark Dutko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Top Climate Scientist on Lessons Not Learned from Electric Car Debacle
by Marc Geller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: How are you protecting the Zilla Hairball?
by "Mike Harvey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Help! Zilla problems
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Heater Relay Dropout Issue/ **RESOLVED
by Mark Dutko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Heater Relay Dropout Issue
by "Adrian DeLeon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: How are you protecting the Zilla Hairball?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Bridgestone Ecopia EP-03 Tires
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Potenza RE92 was Re: Bridgestone Ecopia EP-03 Tires
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: How are you protecting the Zilla Hairball?
by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Zilla Radiator- Fan/ no Fan
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Help! Zilla problems
by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Zilla Radiator- Fan/ no Fan
by Mark Dutko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Ian Hooper wrote:
Hi all,
I built a little speed controller for an electric trolley this week, and
since there's often discussion on home-brew speed controllers on here I
thought it might be useful if I documented the design for others to
peruse/critique/copy:
http://zeva.com.au/speedy/
So far it seems to work a treat! Hopefully might be of some use to
others out there working on their own controllers, and I'm always open
to any constructive criticism on the design from the experts :)
This is an excellent first controller, Ian. Your MOSFETs, diodes,
capacitors, and gate driver IC are good choices.
As you noted, it lacks current limiting. Even that little Baldor 0.7hp
motor will draw 100's of amps at stall, so it would be a good idea to
add a fuse, sized to blow if the motor remains stalled for more than a
few seconds.
Your circuit also didn't show any main contactor to turn it all off.
This is necessary because sooner or later the controller will fail, and
you don't want a runaway vehicle when it does!
I'd use even thicker wire to interconnect the MOSFETs, diodes, and
capacitors. Again, these parts could easily be asked to carry 100's of
amps under some conditions. Copper sheet metal strips are convenient.
For low voltage controllers like this (24v), schottky diodes are a
better choice, as they have about half the voltage drop.
15v zener diodes across the MOSFET gates are a good idea. They protect
against transients over 20v or so that could blow the MOSFET gates.
Likewise, a high value resistor from gate to source insures that the
gate can't float high if the gate driver IC is off or becomes disconnected.
I'd add a series resistor and separate filter capacitor to power the
voltage regulator ICs. When the motor switches off, you can get huge
voltage spikes on the battery leads due to their inductance. These
spikes can exceed the regulator's peak input voltage spec.
Hopefully, your microcomputer's software has some fail-safes in it to
detect a broken throttle pot, out of range battery voltage, etc. There
should also be a watchdog timer, enabled so it will shut things off if
the software crashes.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Orange racing team just got back early this morning from an
unexpected whirlwind trip to Memphis, Tennessee where we filmed two new
segments for the upcoming Speed Channel show "Record Breakers" on
Wednesday night. I got confirmation on Monday that we were invited to
a special day of taping and racing for two new shows - "Blow em UP" and
" Record Breakers". We started early and worked till 8pm to prep OJ
and to finish putting the new 4 motor AGNS together. We got in a few
parking lot launches by 8pm, loaded up and left for Memphis at 9:30,
drove straight through and got to Memphis Raceway at 8:30 AM. The
track was prepped beautifully, The weather was perfect, the sun was
hot, and to top it off Top Fuel driver Clay Millican was on hand and
greeted us with a handshake. We were scheduled to start filming at
11:00 am so we wasted no time setting up, charging, etc.... We needn't
have hurried. Our time slot got pushed to 1pm, then 4pm, then 7pm.
The delay was due to a variety of problems with the cars brought to
film "Blow em up". Such is show business. We spent the entire day
basking in the 95 degree heat, tweeking AGNS and OJ and checking
everything over 10 times. We were told to have everything ready to go
for sure at 7pm but found out that the crew needed a dinner break so we
waited some more. Hey we drove 12 hrs to get there so there was
nothing to do but wait. I was watching the beautiful sun which had
kept the track so sticky all day that you could hardly walk across it
start to set in the west. I could see what was coming but I couldn't
stop it.
At 7:30 we started fiming with interviews etc... We got OJ on the line
at 8PM for a warm-up run. A quick burnout heated the tires, then we
did a last second interview to set the stage. I explained our first
goal of besting the 7 year old NEDRA 240 volt dragster record of 10.55
@a 115 MPH, and our second of getting into the single digits. OJ
launched perfectly on the hot track and ran a 10.26 @ 130 MPH on her
warm-up run. Holy Cow!!!! This was worth the wait. I headed back to
the pits for more interviews and to get AGNS ready to run. While I was
there OJ came back and they decided we would film a debriefing on the
run before sending AGNS down the track. As we are doing this a track
official comes by and says we have till 9pm to wrap everything up.
WHAT!!!!!, WHAT!!!! Are you kidding me? We have less than 1 hr to
make record runs for 2 vehicles, recharge, repair, etc... Ok let's get
started. But wait, we have to continue the interviews. Meanwhile the
sun has gone away and our beautiful hot track is going with it. I know
AGNS' batteries are not 100% yet but we need the charger for OJ if we
are going to have her ready before they shut the lights off. At 8:49
pm the lights come on as we get AGNS to the line for the first time.
Another last minute interview is done to explain that we are attempting
to break the 192 motorcycle record of 12.95 secs. The tree lights up
but does a yellow/green drop like they do for top fuel. Denis is
expecting a standard setup and gets confused for a split second. He
initially hits the accelerator, then lets off, then decides he may as
well go and heads down the track. AGNS completes her warm-up run of
12.26 @ 99 MPH. Not back considering the launch. I head back to the
pits where Eric has completed his post run inspection and found a fried
brush gear on motor number 5. He needs a few minutes to change it out
so I use the time to charge AGNS as fast as the little 11K generator
will let me. Rudmans green box does the job and we get AGNS back up to
90% + in under 10 minutes. We are now operating at warp speed. Time is
running out. I yank AGNS off the charger, plug in OJ, and push Dennis
back to the line for run 2. It's now 9:03 pm and dark. Through heated
negotiations we were allowed till 9:30 before they shut the lights off.
I tell Dennis to forgo the burnout because AGNS didn't have a full
charge and we needed to save power. I was wrong. Full charge or not
AGNS' brand new DEKAs were just waking up. The tree went yellow/green
while Denis was still positioning himself. After what seemed an
eternity he hit the accelerator. AGNS's 2 new rear tires went up in
smoke. He let off and got back in it. It spun again. This was not the
track we had seen just 15 minutes ago. AGNS finally got hooked up and
ran a 13.26 @ 103 MPH. There went our back up run. I ran back to the
pits where OJ was charging. The brush gear swap was complete but there
was a catch. The new gear was a never tested, prototype unit sent to
me from the UK. I knew that the design had issues and we had a list of
things to change before we were actually going to start testing it but
we only had one day to prep before the trip and it was all we had in
stock so we "run what we brung". We set OJ on the ground. Eric
prepared to climb in when we noticed that the tech had not finished his
work installing the cockpit camera. While they went to find him, I
stole the charger again from OJ and dumped everything I could into
AGNS. 5 minutes later I swapped the charger leads back to OJ and
pushed Dennis to the line, the smell of abused batteries in the air.
I'm thinking to myself, "This is INSANE! But, This is definitely the
most fun I've ever had a racetrack!". Denis does a nice burnout and
has the tree figured out. The light turns green and AGNS goes up in
smoke again. We have lost the track. He gets back into it easy but
pulls away hard. The board shows 12.77 @ 106 MPH. Denis has NEDRA
record number 5 in the books even with a 1 second delay at the line. 5
minutes later I pull OJ off the charger, Eric lays the camera battery
pack in his lap, and drives OJ up to the line. It's 9:27 pm. Eric does
I nice burnout but I see a few sparks coming from the new brush gear at
high RPM. Looking for single digits I have cranked up the power on OJ.
If she hooks up she will fly, if she doesn't she will fry. I suspect
what's coming and share it in my last second interview. There was
nothing to do but watch. OJ launched hard for the first few ft then
lost traction and spun the tires for at least 200 ft. She finally
hooked and managed 107 MPH in the 1/8th. At 3/4 track the new brush
gear had had enough and put on a fireworks show Plasma boy would be
proud of. They wanted something spectacular and they got it with 2
minutes to spare. Eric hit the brakes and went through the lights with
a 12.16 @ 69 MPH. I went down the track and picked up OJ. Other than a
torched motor everything looked good. We loaded up and did some final
interviews.
No single digits for OJ, no back up for the NEDRA record of 10.26, but
man it was AWESOME!! After waiting over 10 hrs we spent the next 1 1/2
hrs like Rosie O'Donnell at a Golden Corral. AGNS got another record
with a previously untested 3 wheeled setup and is poised for the 11's,
we shared some cold beers with the crew, and the track officials were
completely impressed and invited us back and offered to open the track
just for us. It would have been nice to have some more time to "sneak
up" on the 9's, you know, baby the batteries, save the brush gear and
motor, turn up the power gradually over 5-6 runs. NAH, That's not our
style.
Shawn Lawless
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The article says that Killacycle is going to be back for the Nedra
Nationals. Is that true? It would surprise me if so, but I would love to
see it back. Anyone that has a chance to get out and see Killacycle run has
got to do it! I thought I was seeing hard launches watching White Zombie
all these years, but the Killacycle truly looks like it is being shot out of
a cannon.
damon
From: John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Shock Jocks
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 06:25:27 -0700
Hello to All,
Here's the first of many articles that will be hitting in the next week or
so, as a result of the the media frenzy at the Wayland Invitational drag
races two weeks ago. This one is a local story from the Portland Tribune
newspaper:
http://www.portlandtribune.com/accelerate/story.php?story_id=118548740512719300
See Ya.....John Wayland
_________________________________________________________________
http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_pcmag_0507
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think the most likely would be the switch but if it could handle
the draw from the relay it should continue to work as the relay draw
should remain the same? The wire to the relay is spliced right at the
motor and the AC switch has been completely isolated from the rest of
the car electronics. My 12v system runs off two 55A DC/DC and a med
sized aux battery. I will run some voltage tests later and see what
happens. Perhaps when I tested it the pack was disconnected and it
was on the aux battery only- I'll test again.
Thanks,
Mark
On Jul 27, 2007, at 7:38 AM, Phil Marino wrote:
HI, Mark
I've set up my Echo the same way ( using the AC switch to control
the heater) so I'm familiar with the wiring.
The fan takes a lot of current on high (about 12 amps) , so I can
think of two possibilities:
1. Your 12V system voltage is dropping enough to drop the relay
out. Put a voltmeter on your 12V system and watch the voltage as
you change the fan speed.
2. There is enough voltage drop in the AC switch or wiring to
allow the relay voltage to drop when the fan is on high.
To check this, put a voltmeter on the relay coil and watch as you
change fan speeds.
What relay are you using?? It could be that the AC switch itself
is the culprit - it's only designed to send a signal to the A/C
amplifier, not power a large relay directly.
Mine is set up so that the AC switch only drives a small ( 17 ma
coil) relay , and THAT relay drives the larger KUEP relay ( 100 ma
coil). You could try something like that.
A third possibility ( this seems unlikely to me) is that the blower
switch is faulty and is not grounding the heater relay ( which
needs to be on to power the AC switch) when teh blower switch is in
the "high" position. Or, if the ground wire from the heater switch
were loose, it might have that same effect (because there is more
current through that ground wire when the fan is on "high").
Phil
From: Mark Dutko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Heater Relay Dropout Issue
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 06:49:38 -0700
I have my heater relay for my 220V pack grounded on one 12v side
and the other going to the positive wire of my heater fan through
a switch in the dash which used to be the AC switch, When the AC
switch is on and the fan is turned on the relay makes contact on
the first, second and third fan speed position but on the fourth
position or the highest, the relay drops out and I need to turn
the fan off to get it to contact again. I have a diode across the
relay coil (not sure if needed) and that's it. Any suggestions as
to a fix for this and why it happens on the high fan speed setting?
Thanks,
Mark
_________________________________________________________________
http://newlivehotmail.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I ordered around the same time, they told me at the time about 6 weeks.
damon
From: "Brian Pikkula" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: ETA on Electro Auto adapters
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 23:58:50 -0500
I asked Electro Auto several times before I ordered and once after I
ordered what the lead time was for their adapters. No answer from
them.
What should I expect for an ETA? I ordered my adapter about a month ago.
--
Brian in TX
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/960
http://www.evdub.blogspot.com/
It may seem like I am doing nothing, but on a cellular level I'm
really quite busy.
_________________________________________________________________
http://newlivehotmail.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Certainly tires can be used for much longer, but I think the point worth
taking away is that after several years of use or sitting, it is worth
inspecting them more regularly for signs of cracking, bulging, or
seperation.
- Kip
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 10:31 PM
Subject: Re: Bridgestone Ecopia EP-03 Tires
Joseph T. wrote:
As terribly ridiculous it sounds, it's true unfortunately. Tires that
are over 6 years old have aged, believe it or not from just sitting
there. The tires, despite little/no use, have deteriated enough to
make them dangerous. This article talks all about it:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/05/27/eveningnews/consumer/main698335.shtml
While I don't doubt that tires age, I must say that I don't believe the
effect is nearly as bad as this article indicates. It has a sensationalist
tone, and no real facts.
I would expect that as a tire ages, its load-carrying capacity (and other
parameters) will gradually decrease. Fine... *how much* capacity does it
lose after 6 years? 1%? 10%? 50%?
I *know* I've run tires more than twice the "6 year" age that article
touts, with not one single failure. I can think of endless numbers of
cases where people with old or classic cars are running tires that are
decades old. So my guess is that the percent degradation is low. It would
only matter in cases where the tire was already being run at its full load
capacity even when new.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database:
269.10.20/919 - Release Date: 7/26/2007 9:56 AM
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've got a Zilla to install in my truck. The power module Will need a
little splash guarding in the location available under the hood, but the
hairball is posing more of a problem. The form factor of the hairball
isn't a good match for NEMA 4x industrial boxes. Boxes that are long
enough are also very wide, wasting precious under hood space. I suppose
I could put something else inside the box, but all that is hanging out
is high voltage stuff, like contactors and fuses. I'm thinking it's
probably not a good idea to mix 350vdc in the same box as the hairball.
The only other thing I can think of is to build a simple enclosure out
of acrylic plastic to splash proof the hairball.
Does anyone have pictures of what they have done to keep the worst of
the under hood environment away from the hairball?
Paul Wallace
'91 S10 going through a major transformation
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The 165/65-14 RE92's are low rolling resistance. They are the stock tire
for the Honda Insight. Kinda' loud at high pressure (I run mine at
52psi), but boy to they roll...
I got 70k miles out of my first set.
cheers,
Andrew
Phil Marino wrote:
From: Brian Jackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
CC: "Joseph T. " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Bridgestone Ecopia EP-03 Tires
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 23:45:16 -0700
True, old tires are very dangerous. Even if they don't blow out, they
get hard and have poor traction. I am ashamed to admit that I
actually caused an accident this way. I have an old set of tires on
my Corvair truck too. They don't have many miles on them, but they're
about 10 years old. One of them blew out last week while the truck
was parked.
I have been looking at these tires for my EV project.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Bridgestone&tireModel=Potenza+RE92&vehicleSearch=false&partnum=665SR4RE92&fromCompare1=yes&place=0
Sorry for the long link. I have been looking at these because they
are as narrow and as low profile as I can find for a 14" tire.
Brian
Brian - do you know the rolling resistance factor for RE92's ? I
don't think I've ever seen them in a chart of low rolling resistance
tires.
If you look at the GreenSeal paper, two of the lowest tires ( the
Bridgestone B381's and the Sumitomo HTR 200's are available in stock
at TireRack in 14 inch sizes - although not as narrow as the RE92 you
are looking at.
Why do you want the narrowest tire? Do you need a tire that small to
fit in your wheel well?
If not, it is more important to have a low rolling resistance tire.
This depends on the material and construction of the tire, not its width.
Phil Marino
_________________________________________________________________
http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_pcmag_0507
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have the Zilla cooling kit from EV source with the small radiator
and I was wondering putting a cooling fan on the radiator would
provide a performance benefit for cooling in San Francisco with our
cooler weather. Is the radiator more than sufficient or would the fan
provide a significant benefit? If the Zilla is run hard from time to
time is the fan needed or is the radiator adequate in this climate?
Thanks,
Mark
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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From: Mark Dutko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Zilla Radiator- Fan/ no Fan
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 10:45:00 -0700
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Thanks roland, It is usually in the 60's here sometimes warmer and I
was not sure if the 4" fan on the small radiator is needed or would
be of benefit?
M
On Jul 27, 2007, at 10:39 AM, Roland Wiench wrote:
> Hello Mark,
>
> I use both, the water cooling kit and a 6 inch filter Dayton blower
> fan that
> is mounted to the side of a enclosure that houses the controllers.
>
> I mounted the radiator in front of the A/C radiator which is about
> 24 inches
> lower than the Zilla. One of the 3/8 lines go to a 1/2 inch brass
> drain
> value that is place at the lowest point next to the radiator, the
> drain
> value line goes to the radiator and back up to the pump which is hose
> coupler to the bottom of a GM expansion tank that has a locking
> cover. from
> the top of this tank, a 3/8 line goes to the Zilla.
>
> Here in Montana we get 120 degrees in the sun which causes a under
> hood
> temperature of 140 to 160 degrees. The temperature in the shade is
> about
> 105 degrees at that point. I have a air temperature sensor and
> another
> temperature sensor on the Zilla heat sink. The maximum heat sink
> temperature I ever read was the 105 degrees which was about the
> same ambient
> temp of the air below the vehicle with both fan and water cooling
> running.
>
> Roland
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Dutko" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 10:12 AM
> Subject: Zilla Radiator- Fan/ no Fan
>
>
>> I have the Zilla cooling kit from EV source with the small radiator
>> and I was wondering putting a cooling fan on the radiator would
>> provide a performance benefit for cooling in San Francisco with our
>> cooler weather. Is the radiator more than sufficient or would the fan
>> provide a significant benefit? If the Zilla is run hard from time to
>> time is the fan needed or is the radiator adequate in this climate?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>
>
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