EV Digest 7071
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Potenza RE92 was Re: Bridgestone Ecopia EP-03 Tires
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: interesting electric bike design
by Ian Page-Echols <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Potenza RE92 was Re: Bridgestone Ecopia EP-03 Tires
by Andrew Letton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) A123 chemistry
by Marvin Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: A123 chemistry
by Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Speed controller project
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Help! Zilla problems
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: AGNS and OJ make record runs in Memphis, TN
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Bridgestone Ecopia EP-03 Tires
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: What is the typical amperage draw of the field for a sepex motor?
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: What is the typical amperage draw of the field for a sepex motor?
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: A123 chemistry
by =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jukka_J=E4rvinen?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Zilla Radiator- Fan/ no Fan
by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: A123 chemistry
by Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) zilla "check Engine" light question
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: What is the typical amperage draw of the field for a sepex motor?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Lester "SCR battery charger"?
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: parallel batteries
by "Dale Ulan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Help! Zilla problems
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: zilla "check Engine" light question
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: was DIY Electric now forums redux
by john fisher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: DIY Electric Car Forums
by john fisher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: A123 chemistry
by =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jukka_J=E4rvinen?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Ricky Suiter wrote:
The Potenza RE92's in the 165/65R14 and 175/65R14
sizes are LRR, but there are no numbers in the green
seal report. The 165 is the OEM Honda Insight tire,
the 175 is the OEM Prius tire. The 175 size also comes
in an XL or extra load rated tire so that might be the
thing to get for your conversion.
The tires that come on a new car are *not* the same tires you and I get
in a tire store. Auto companies buy tires by the millions, so they ask
for (and get) special tires made to order. If they want a lower price,
or lower rolling resistance, or higher load capacity or whatever, they
get it!
But when we go into a tire store, we get the generic equivalent of that
tire. It may have the same name and be the same size, but it's a
different version. It won't have whatever special characteristics the
auto company demanded.
For example, Toyota wanted a low rolling resistance tire with a higher
load capacity for the Prius. So, they got a special Bridgestone Potenza
RE92, with extra load capacity and low rolling resistance. Replacements
from a tire store will have *normal* rolling resistance and load
capacity. They will try to sell you what they *do* have in stock; some
other tire, even another Bridgestone Potenza that they say is "just as
good". It may be cheaper, and wear longer, and handle better (the things
consumers ask for at tire stores); but it won't be low rolling
resistance or extra load capacity. To get that, they'll have to special
order an OEM replacement tire for you.
Also note that everything has tradeoffs. When you increase one
parameter, other parameters get worse. The special low rolling
resistance version Prius tire had half the life of regular version.
Not having any numbers I will say this about them
though. I was very active on the Insight Central
forums when I had my Insight and lots of people asked
about tires and those who didn't listen and put
regular tires on their cars always lost 5-10mpg
depending on what they put on the car.
Yes; same with the Prius. Tire store tires (even the same make and
model!) had worse mpg. The 2004-2007 Prius comes with Goodyear Integrity
185/65R15 tires "made in Japan". A tire store Goodyear Integrity
185/65R15 is "made in USA" and is not the same tire. It may have
improved life, quieter, handles better, etc. -- but it doesn't have the
same low rolling resistance.
Now I should mention I'm not sure what the case is
with any of the Potenza's that are larger, they may
not be LRR, but here's a way you can probably check.
The 165 and 175 size are made in Japan, they say so on
the sidewall. If the larger sizes are made in the US I
would bet they aren't LRR.
Right!
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, I guess that makes it in good company with many other electric
vehicles then. Not shipping, that is. Too bad to hear though.
Ian
On Jul 27, 2007, at 6:38 AM, James Drysdale wrote:
Ahhh, another person who likes the xtracycle!
Great product I'm sure.
I would love to have on on my bike.
Their website is so well designed, so many times I visited their
website, even after making the purchase. Fantastic folk!
I paid in full for an extracycle with all the trimmings, as in 2x
saddlebags, passenger carry board, etc... Cost me $AU730. 2 months
later, still no product. The last eta I was given was November, but
seeing as I already pain in full, I may get it by September. Anyway I
cancelled the order. So sad to say. :-(
It is bad when great products by newly formed companies find
themselves
with a case of great front-end, shithouse backend. Something about a
worldwide shortage since August/September last year because of an
incorrect production run at the Taiwanese manufacturing yards.
I was intending for my xtracycle-equipped bike to be my main vehicle.
But as this won't happen for another 2 or 4 months, I'd decided to go
for a recumbent trike instead, and could only afford it by selling my
ICE car (not for conversion) and apply for an xtracycle refund.
Perhaps in the future, when I have more cash on hand, and can actually
afford to convert my beloved ute to electric, I will look at it again.
Such a sweet looking product! :-)
Anyway, if you are the type that enjoys taking the bike out for a
ride,
check this product out (in a few months when they have stock......)
Same
for the electric attachment, different company though. They're not
currently taking orders, changes are a-happening.
About that StokeMonkey electric attachment, I reckon the main thing it
has got going for it, over the hub motors we all see is that its
output
is attached to the pedal crank of the bicycle. Meaning that you have
some odd 400W of added power over your entire gear range, as
compared to
a fixed ratio with a hub motor.
And yes, I tried purchasing one of those aswell. Well submitted my
interest was the best I could do as they haven't been accepting new
orders for at least 2 months now. I'm not sure about the holdups with
their products.
Two great products, just wish they were a little cheaper and in
stock ;-)
Cheers,
James.
Ian Page-Echols wrote:
I found the bike store Clever Chimp recently in my searchings for
saddlebags for my bike. They sell, among other things, FreeRadical
kits by Xtracycle, which attaches to the back of a normal bike and
allows you to carry a ton of stuff on there (one of the images on the
Xtracycle site shows a biker carrying a kayak!).
What I just found was that Clever Chimp is selling an electric kit
for
bikes equipped this way. Looks pretty well thought out. Batteries
are 36 volt NiMH (choice of 9 or 13Ah at 12 and 19 lbs) and it sounds
like the motor and mountings are around 20 lbs. Top speeds of around
30 mph, and a range of around 50 miles (can't find this again, but I
remember reading that number, most likely with the larger battery?),
and $1350 for the kit. You're talking almost 70 lbs for a full bike
set up this way, so might be best as a 2nd bike. Very tempting.
http://www.xtracycle.com/freerad.php (North San Juan & Emeryville,
CA)
http://cleverchimp.com/products/stokemonkey/ (Portland)
Ian
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
The tires that come on a new car are *not* the same tires you and I
get in a tire store.
That's a pretty definitive statement there Lee! ;-)
I'd venture to say that tires that come on a new care *may* not be the
same tires you and I get in a tire store, but I'd be surprised if they
were *always* different.
FWIW, I saw no appreciable change in mileage, noise, or feel when I
replaced the OEM Potenza RE92s on my Insight with a replacement set of
the "same" tire. Granted, I did not do a complete comparison of
sidewall data between the old and new tires.
cheers,
Andrew
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Oh yes, manufacturers are absolutely famous for giving out accurate
information about new and/or future products to dumbass Freds that call from
out of the blue.
Why just last month I called Toyota to ask about plug-in hybrids and they
assured me they had no plans for any such thing at the present time.
--
MarvyMarv
aka
Mo'Nilla
"- Damer liker smarte menn. Og smarte menn kjører jo elbil,
understreker han." -Ladies like smart men and smart men drive electric
cars.
www.PlugInAmerica.com
> From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 16:12:05 +0200
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: A123 chemistry
>
> on the rumor from Jukka, I contacted A123 to ask if they were iron or
> cobalt cells. I got a partial answer
>
>
> A123 Systems Product Evaluation wrote:
>> Mr. Frederiksen,
>>
>> A123 utilizes a nano-phosphate technology that does not contain cobalt
>> or Manganese.
>>
>> Best,
>> Steve
>
> Either A123 is flat out lying or that bird you heard Jukka was a mocking
> bird : )
>
> Dan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Marvin Campbell wrote:
Oh yes, manufacturers are absolutely famous for giving out accurate
information about new and/or future products to dumbass Freds that call from
out of the blue.
Why just last month I called Toyota to ask about plug-in hybrids and they
assured me they had no plans for any such thing at the present time.
you might notice that that is actually true. while they are
demonstrating a fairly pathetic PHEV right now, they have stated that
they have no plans for selling it
Dan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't have much time right now to look it over, but
one possible critical problem on the layout is the
position and wiring of the bus caps. Typically you
want these as close to the MOSFETs and diodes as
possible (like in the same parallel plane. You would
preferably have a positive bus plane on the top and
negative on the bottom to minimize voltage overshoot
during switching. It appears as if you may have an
issue with parasitic inductance. Before you crank up
the current, monitor the voltage across the FET's and
see how much voltage overshoot you get during
switching. Before you even attempt to power it, I
would implement the good suggestions that Lee
recommended earlier.
Great to see somebody actually building something!
You will learn far more by experimenting (although it
certainly helps to get suggestions here first!).
Rod
--- Ian Hooper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I built a little speed controller for an electric
> trolley this week,
> and since there's often discussion on home-brew
> speed controllers on
> here I thought it might be useful if I documented
> the design for
> others to peruse/critique/copy:
>
> http://zeva.com.au/speedy/
>
> So far it seems to work a treat! Hopefully might be
> of some use to
> others out there working on their own controllers,
> and I'm always
> open to any constructive criticism on the design
> from the experts :)
>
> -Ian
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Jim,
I gotta say motors out of your shop look a whole lot
nicer than what the other guy did for Matt's MTC. Not
to say they didn't do a decent job, but you can tell
it is not the master's work.
And Matt,
About that 56 volt ground. Is that from battery pack
positive to frame? Try taking a 1K or 2.2K Ohm
resistor and wiring it from pos to frame and measure
the drop across the resistor. Does the voltage go
down from 56? Use I = V / R to calculate the amps.
Milliamps, hopefully. If you're below 10 milliamps,
it is probably leakage paths from the batteries,
either tracking from terminals outside the cases or
even thru the plastic cases.
Jeff
--- Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hey Matt
>
> Being you just had the motor worked on I doubt there
> is a short to frame there. I've seen where assuming
> gets you so taking a test of the motor is easy. Use
> a
> multi-meter and see whether you have continuity
> between any terminal from the housing.
>
> While you're there testing it, do a 12 volt bench
> test
> to see that the motor does in fact work (if you
> didn't
> already after getting it back from the shop) again
> just to make sure so you can cross this segment off
> the list so to speak.
>
> Being that the motor's been worked on and the
> problem
> remains it adds to it not being the issue but like I
> said if you want to cross it off you'll at least
> know.
>
>
> Bummer to hear you're having troubles, keep the chin
> up and trace it till you find the little bugger 8^)
>
> Sorry I can't help more on the controller but Otmar
> wouldn't let me see the insides of one 8^o, LMAO!
> (kind of a private / public joke) 8^P No diff
> really
> as I couldn't tell ya what I saw if I saw it, being
> I'm the motor guy 8^)
>
> Hope this helps a little ><
> Best of luck
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
>
>
>
>
> --- "R. Matt Milliron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >
> > I do not want to send My Zilla 1k-LV back to the
> > shop. I am hoping
> > that the EV-Brain trust can help me.
> >
> > Short story. I got my Zilla. Hooked it up and
> it
> > ran. Drove my
> > car for 2 miles. Parked it, turned everything
> off.
> > Started chargers
> > and went to bed. Next day she won't run.
> Hairball
> > will not talk to
> > the power unit. Also there is a 56 volt short too
> > ground/body of the
> > car. I figured that it was the motor. Got the
> > motor back from the
> > shop, with a clean bill of health and a bill.
> > Hooked it to the Zilla
> > (1132 error) hairball will not talk to the power
> > unit. I also have a
> > 56 volt short to ground/body of car. If I
> > disconnect Zilla (M+) from
> > motor, short goes away. If I move the volt meter
> > one battery farther
> > from the Zilla, the short drops 6 volts. Is this
> > something with the
> > motor or Zilla? Is it something I can test for.
> >
> > My feeling is that this is just something that
> > happens. Some
> > component in the power unit, stressed itself and
> > failed. I just don't
> > want to be wrong.
> >
> > TIA
> >
> > R. M. Milliron
> >
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 1981 Jet Electrica
> > http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/702
> >
> > This machine has been garaged for 17 years.
> > I am upgrading it and getting it running. Tabitha,
> > my daughter, named it, "Pikachu". It's yellow and
> > black,
> > electric and contains Japanese parts, so I went
> with
> > it.
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> Park yourself in front of a world of choices in
> alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green
> Center.
> http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
>
>
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Great work Shawn!!
Man, I love this time of year!! You just don't hear these kinds of stories much
during the dark months.
We need to get some Aussies into serious drag racing mode....
Stay Charged!
Hump
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 11:22 AM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: AGNS and OJ make record runs in Memphis, TN
>
> The Orange racing team just got back early this morning from an
> unexpected whirlwind trip to Memphis, Tennessee where we filmed two new
> segments for the upcoming Speed Channel show "Record Breakers" on
> Wednesday night. I got confirmation on Monday that we were invited to
> a special day of taping and racing for two new shows - "Blow em UP" and
> " Record Breakers". We started early and worked till 8pm to prep OJ
> and to finish putting the new 4 motor AGNS together. We got in a few
> parking lot launches by 8pm, loaded up and left for Memphis at 9:30,
> drove straight through and got to Memphis Raceway at 8:30 AM. The
> track was prepped beautifully, The weather was perfect, the sun was
> hot, and to top it off Top Fuel driver Clay Millican was on hand and
> greeted us with a handshake. We were scheduled to start filming at
> 11:00 am so we wasted no time setting up, charging, etc.... We needn't
> have hurried. Our time slot got pushed to 1pm, then 4pm, then 7pm.
> The delay was due to a variety of problems with the cars brought to
> film "Blow em up". Such is show business. We spent the entire day
> basking in the 95 degree heat, tweeking AGNS and OJ and checking
> everything over 10 times. We were told to have everything ready to go
> for sure at 7pm but found out that the crew needed a dinner break so we
> waited some more. Hey we drove 12 hrs to get there so there was
> nothing to do but wait. I was watching the beautiful sun which had
> kept the track so sticky all day that you could hardly walk across it
> start to set in the west. I could see what was coming but I couldn't
> stop it.
>
> At 7:30 we started fiming with interviews etc... We got OJ on the line
> at 8PM for a warm-up run. A quick burnout heated the tires, then we
> did a last second interview to set the stage. I explained our first
> goal of besting the 7 year old NEDRA 240 volt dragster record of 10.55
> @a 115 MPH, and our second of getting into the single digits. OJ
> launched perfectly on the hot track and ran a 10.26 @ 130 MPH on her
> warm-up run. Holy Cow!!!! This was worth the wait. I headed back to
> the pits for more interviews and to get AGNS ready to run. While I was
> there OJ came back and they decided we would film a debriefing on the
> run before sending AGNS down the track. As we are doing this a track
> official comes by and says we have till 9pm to wrap everything up.
> WHAT!!!!!, WHAT!!!! Are you kidding me? We have less than 1 hr to
> make record runs for 2 vehicles, recharge, repair, etc... Ok let's get
> started. But wait, we have to continue the interviews. Meanwhile the
> sun has gone away and our beautiful hot track is going with it. I know
> AGNS' batteries are not 100% yet but we need the charger for OJ if we
> are going to have her ready before they shut the lights off. At 8:49
> pm the lights come on as we get AGNS to the line for the first time.
> Another last minute interview is done to explain that we are attempting
> to break the 192 motorcycle record of 12.95 secs. The tree lights up
> but does a yellow/green drop like they do for top fuel. Denis is
> expecting a standard setup and gets confused for a split second. He
> initially hits the accelerator, then lets off, then decides he may as
> well go and heads down the track. AGNS completes her warm-up run of
> 12.26 @ 99 MPH. Not back considering the launch. I head back to the
> pits where Eric has completed his post run inspection and found a fried
> brush gear on motor number 5. He needs a few minutes to change it out
> so I use the time to charge AGNS as fast as the little 11K generator
> will let me. Rudmans green box does the job and we get AGNS back up to
> 90% + in under 10 minutes. We are now operating at warp speed. Time is
> running out. I yank AGNS off the charger, plug in OJ, and push Dennis
> back to the line for run 2. It's now 9:03 pm and dark. Through heated
> negotiations we were allowed till 9:30 before they shut the lights off.
> I tell Dennis to forgo the burnout because AGNS didn't have a full
> charge and we needed to save power. I was wrong. Full charge or not
> AGNS' brand new DEKAs were just waking up. The tree went yellow/green
> while Denis was still positioning himself. After what seemed an
> eternity he hit the accelerator. AGNS's 2 new rear tires went up in
> smoke. He let off and got back in it. It spun again. This was not the
> track we had seen just 15 minutes ago. AGNS finally got hooked up and
> ran a 13.26 @ 103 MPH. There went our back up run. I ran back to the
> pits where OJ was charging. The brush gear swap was complete but there
> was a catch. The new gear was a never tested, prototype unit sent to
> me from the UK. I knew that the design had issues and we had a list of
> things to change before we were actually going to start testing it but
> we only had one day to prep before the trip and it was all we had in
> stock so we "run what we brung". We set OJ on the ground. Eric
> prepared to climb in when we noticed that the tech had not finished his
> work installing the cockpit camera. While they went to find him, I
> stole the charger again from OJ and dumped everything I could into
> AGNS. 5 minutes later I swapped the charger leads back to OJ and
> pushed Dennis to the line, the smell of abused batteries in the air.
> I'm thinking to myself, "This is INSANE! But, This is definitely the
> most fun I've ever had a racetrack!". Denis does a nice burnout and
> has the tree figured out. The light turns green and AGNS goes up in
> smoke again. We have lost the track. He gets back into it easy but
> pulls away hard. The board shows 12.77 @ 106 MPH. Denis has NEDRA
> record number 5 in the books even with a 1 second delay at the line. 5
> minutes later I pull OJ off the charger, Eric lays the camera battery
> pack in his lap, and drives OJ up to the line. It's 9:27 pm. Eric does
> I nice burnout but I see a few sparks coming from the new brush gear at
> high RPM. Looking for single digits I have cranked up the power on OJ.
> If she hooks up she will fly, if she doesn't she will fry. I suspect
> what's coming and share it in my last second interview. There was
> nothing to do but watch. OJ launched hard for the first few ft then
> lost traction and spun the tires for at least 200 ft. She finally
> hooked and managed 107 MPH in the 1/8th. At 3/4 track the new brush
> gear had had enough and put on a fireworks show Plasma boy would be
> proud of. They wanted something spectacular and they got it with 2
> minutes to spare. Eric hit the brakes and went through the lights with
> a 12.16 @ 69 MPH. I went down the track and picked up OJ. Other than a
> torched motor everything looked good. We loaded up and did some final
> interviews.
>
> No single digits for OJ, no back up for the NEDRA record of 10.26, but
> man it was AWESOME!! After waiting over 10 hrs we spent the next 1 1/2
> hrs like Rosie O'Donnell at a Golden Corral. AGNS got another record
> with a previously untested 3 wheeled setup and is poised for the 11's,
> we shared some cold beers with the crew, and the track officials were
> completely impressed and invited us back and offered to open the track
> just for us. It would have been nice to have some more time to "sneak
> up" on the 9's, you know, baby the batteries, save the brush gear and
> motor, turn up the power gradually over 5-6 runs. NAH, That's not our
> style.
>
> Shawn Lawless
> ________________________________________________________________________
> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
> from AOL at AOL.com.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It was just brought to my attention that the Ecopia's
I'm trying to get are load rated 89S or 1279lbs!
That's a lot for a 14" tire.
Rick
____________________________________________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Looks like maybe I didn't IIRC correctly. 47 percent
for 120 deg C rise fits the equation better. Or 0.39
percent per degree C. Thanks Lee.
Jeff
--- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Jeff Major wrote:
> > IIRC, 37 percent increase in resistance was 120
> degree
> > C rise. This is what could be used on a class H
> > motor.
>
> What I use is Thot = Tcold + (K x ((Rhot - Rcold) /
> Rcold))
>
> where K = 256.4 for copper
> Thot = hot temperature in deg.C
> Tcold = cold temperature in deg.C
> Rhot = resistance at hot temperature in ohms
> Rcold = resistance at cold temperature in
> ohms
>
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
<snip>
> I've often thought one could build a pretty handy
> motor "characterizer"
> with nothing but a battery pack, on/off contactor,
> and free-spinning
> motor. Use a computer with some simple
> instrumentation to measure
> voltage, current and RPM. The software would switch
> on the motor, and
> measure its power as it speeds up. The motor's own
> inertia forms the load.
>
Hi Lee,
This can be done, but you'd have no torque
measurement. I guess you could figure out the moment
of inertia of the rotor and back calculate it.
Anyhow, I have seen such flywheel dynos years ago.
They had a torque sensor between the motor and
flywheel. Just close the contactor and you'd get the
whole speed torque curve in a second or two. Of
course with series motors, you'd have a sensitive
speed sensor to cut it off before destruction.
Jeff
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--- Begin Message ---
Hmm.. so it does not contain Cobalt, Manganese, Iron,,... Just
"nano-phosphate"... DAH !! .. why I did not think that before... :)
The bird was working for A123 in R&D and quitted to work for another
battery company just a while ago...
But.. to my own conclusions...
ANR26650M1 has about 100 Wh/kg which is very low compared to LiCoO cells
which can go up to 240 Wh/kg. Power that the A123 cell can give out is
uncomparable to Cobalt cells. So this would indicate Iron Phosphate
(their patent implies this since Mr Goodenough has tha base of the
patent with Iron) .. if you're looking for power... that's your cell..
So what was the energy density of the AHR32157M1HD ? Is that then the
Cobalt mixture...
Did someone have already some cycling data on PHET cells ? I'm keen to
compare..
I should have a some data about TS LFP cell cycling next week.
-Jukka
Marvin Campbell kirjoitti:
Oh yes, manufacturers are absolutely famous for giving out accurate
information about new and/or future products to dumbass Freds that call from
out of the blue.
Why just last month I called Toyota to ask about plug-in hybrids and they
assured me they had no plans for any such thing at the present time.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark,
As long as the radiator is out in front in good free airflow while driving it
seems to be good for me without a fan, even up to 80*F ambient. (Thats usually
the hottest it gets in Anchorage :-)
But even then just the radiator alone keeps the temps well below the 212*F that
causes the Zilla to start cutting back current.
And I only have (maybe) a pint worth of coolant. Increasing the size of your
coolant reseviour would help too, if you don't want to hassle with installing a
fan.
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Dutko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Friday, July 27, 2007 8:23 am
Subject: Zilla Radiator- Fan/ no Fan
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> I have the Zilla cooling kit from EV source with the small radiator
>
> and I was wondering putting a cooling fan on the radiator would
> provide a performance benefit for cooling in San Francisco with our
>
> cooler weather. Is the radiator more than sufficient or would the
> fan
> provide a significant benefit? If the Zilla is run hard from time
> to
> time is the fan needed or is the radiator adequate in this climate?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mark
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Both A123 and PHET cells can be gotten. if you've bought 1000000Ah worth
of TS I'm a bit surprised you haven't stayed on top of A123 and PHET by
getting a few of those for testing.
Dan
Jukka Järvinen wrote:
Hmm.. so it does not contain Cobalt, Manganese, Iron,,... Just
"nano-phosphate"... DAH !! .. why I did not think that before... :)
The bird was working for A123 in R&D and quitted to work for another
battery company just a while ago...
But.. to my own conclusions...
ANR26650M1 has about 100 Wh/kg which is very low compared to LiCoO
cells which can go up to 240 Wh/kg. Power that the A123 cell can give
out is uncomparable to Cobalt cells. So this would indicate Iron
Phosphate (their patent implies this since Mr Goodenough has tha base
of the patent with Iron) .. if you're looking for power... that's your
cell..
So what was the energy density of the AHR32157M1HD ? Is that then the
Cobalt mixture...
Did someone have already some cycling data on PHET cells ? I'm keen to
compare..
I should have a some data about TS LFP cell cycling next week.
-Jukka
Marvin Campbell kirjoitti:
Oh yes, manufacturers are absolutely famous for giving out accurate
information about new and/or future products to dumbass Freds that
call from
out of the blue.
Why just last month I called Toyota to ask about plug-in hybrids and
they
assured me they had no plans for any such thing at the present time.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was driving today to the garage for an alignment (have to wait and drop it
off Sunday - sigh) and the zilla flashed the check engine light slowly but did
not register any trouble codes. I reviewed the manual, but it didn't give a
list of what would make it do that.
To sum up,
This happened while driving.
There were no trouble codes. Yes, I checked for previous codes. There are
none.
The battery voltage was fine. Well above warning level.
It continued driving just fine.
I was driving at low power levels (50-100 battery amps).
Nominal pack voltage is 228V.
What would cause this? It was around 100 degrees outside. Could it have been
cutting back due to high temperature? I have the full liquid cooling unit
(from evsource) and it seems to be working.
Thanks.
David Brandt
____________________________________________________________________________________
Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car
Finder tool.
http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Major wrote:
--- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
<snip>
I've often thought one could build a pretty handy
motor "characterizer"
with nothing but a battery pack, on/off contactor,
and free-spinning
motor. Use a computer with some simple
instrumentation to measure
voltage, current and RPM. The software would switch
on the motor, and
measure its power as it speeds up. The motor's own
inertia forms the load.
Hi Lee,
This can be done, but you'd have no torque
measurement. I guess you could figure out the moment
of inertia of the rotor and back calculate it.
Anyhow, I have seen such flywheel dynos years ago.
They had a torque sensor between the motor and
flywheel. Just close the contactor and you'd get the
whole speed torque curve in a second or two. Of
course with series motors, you'd have a sensitive
speed sensor to cut it off before destruction.
Yes, that's the idea!
I was thinking of a "portable" tester (a box with a battery, big
contactor, and the data acquisition equipment) that one could haul to a
surplus dealer and use it to check out a likely motor without having to
buy it and haul it home to test.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Has anyone had any experience with the Lsster "SCR Battery Charger"
line, such as the model 25900? According to their web site, this was
introduced in 2005 and can be set for either flooded or sealed lead acid
batteries. I know Lester has made indestructible (and heavy!) chargers
for years - I'm looking to use this with sealed batteries and wonder how
"smart" a charger it really is?
Or... know of any other 'Made in USA' 36-volt charger that can properly
maintain sealed gel-cells?
--
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak's
1997 Solectria Force
1998 Chevy S-10 NiMH BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV Bi-Fuel
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>As I understand it, lead acid batteries work okay being in parallel
>and NiMH don't work well in parallel.
Question for those who have more knowledge on this point... NiMH don't
parallel well, but what about having several strings that are
either higher or lower in voltage than the motor+controller
need, and a buck/boost bidirectional converter for each string,
dumping power into (or out of, in the case of regen) the main
'bus'. Say, 6 or 10 192 volt strings, with a 156 volt bus. Each
converter would need to be capable of maybe between 40 and 100 amps,
depending on your power level. Obviously, synchronizing them might
be a bit of effort, but could this work? I would think buck for
driving, boost for regen would make the most sense to me from an
efficiency and minimizing switching loss point of view. Obviously
the output capacitors on the bus would need to handle full ripple
current of the motor and controller.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hey Jim,
>
> I gotta say motors out of your shop look a whole lot
> nicer than what the other guy did for Matt's MTC.
> Not
> to say they didn't do a decent job, but you can tell
> it is not the master's work.
Hey Jeff
First off, thanks for noticing 8^) I hadn't seen that
Matt had thrown up a pic so after your post I ran on
over to take a look @@
Now my momma told me if I didn't have anything nice to
say then not to say anything at all 8^o So I'll just
say that at least it looks better than it did 8^P
Now beauty is only skin deep but I've heard ugly can
run all the way to the guts, LMAO, and being I see
they painted the fan I'm betting they hosed that
armature down as well, which is a shame. Although I
do coat areas with Glyptal I make sure to leave the
natural insulation clear dipped so you can see if it's
overheating and begins to darken the insulation, where
as if coated in red paint or glyptal it's hidden from
view. Just a heads up for other to not have your
armature coated solid.
In fact my first boss was a hard core Christian and
used to use the phrase that Glyptal was like the blood
of Christ, it hides sin!
Personally, if this was my motor, I'd have beaten that
guy with the same 14' ugly stick he used to build that
motor with 8^o
Sorry Mom I'll go wash my mouth out with soap for
talking trash 8^)
BTW IMO Pikachu's motor should have been Yellow or
black!
Got to run and go chew some soap now 8^(
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
____________________________________________________________________________________Ready
for the edge of your seat?
Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV.
http://tv.yahoo.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello David,
This same thing happens to me once until I did a modification to my battery
feed circuit to the controller. According to Otmar, he said turn the
ignition key to the on position, pulse a bit when you get the Ignition Led
on and then turn to the Start position to get the second Led indication and
than release back to ignition.
I had the habit of turning the ignition key right to the start position
which I may only get one indication light on which stays on. Turning the
ignition key off and re cycle will clear this up.
In my setup, I have two addition battery contactors plus the main contactor
which are turn on my the same control 12 volt relay. What happen here, is
the main contactor would come on a micro second sooner than the ssfety
contactors and the main contactor does not see any input voltage, causing a
momentary error. I then install another 12 volt control relay off the
ignition position, so the safety contactors would come on first before the
main contactor does.
Sometimes a momentary high resistance connection between the battery will
cause this indicator to lite up.
Normally when this happens to me, it will work normally on the next start
up.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Brandt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVDL" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 3:22 PM
Subject: zilla "check Engine" light question
> I was driving today to the garage for an alignment (have to wait and drop
> it off Sunday - sigh) and the zilla flashed the check engine light slowly
> but did not register any trouble codes. I reviewed the manual, but it
> didn't give a list of what would make it do that.
>
> To sum up,
>
> This happened while driving.
> There were no trouble codes. Yes, I checked for previous codes. There
> are none.
> The battery voltage was fine. Well above warning level.
> It continued driving just fine.
> I was driving at low power levels (50-100 battery amps).
> Nominal pack voltage is 228V.
>
> What would cause this? It was around 100 degrees outside. Could it have
> been cutting back due to high temperature? I have the full liquid cooling
> unit (from evsource) and it seems to be working.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
>
> David Brandt
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car
> Finder tool.
> http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://news.gmane.org/gmane.recreation.cars.evdl
may help *some* users.
Its not at all far-fetched to expect a forum to also send email like a list. I am not happy with PHPbb, but
http://www.simplemachines.org/ looks like it might be better. The good CMSes ( Drupal, Joomla etc etc ) have forums too
and all those other lovely features like galleries and archives and calendars and news ....
An advantage of forums that I haven't seen mentioned here is the real-time posting. With digests you get a cacophony of
duplicate and out-of-order answers.
Lots of busy computer-subject groups still run as mailing lists quite effectively, Fedora for instance. Not the same
culture to be sure.
Thread-jacking is ubiquitous on both types of system, no doubt Neanderthals did
it with sticks in the dirt.
To the person who thinks forums are slow: my bookmark calls the "view unread threads" in the forum I admin- it couldn't
be faster.
To the folks with dial-up only - sorry.
HTH
JF
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
there ya go...
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=279
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
yeah, yeah, DAN... I have lot's of different tested cells but the fact
is the cells are changing all the time. If I tested 100 different cells
3 years ago from manufacturers xx to yy I'd need to start the whole
thing again. No use.
It's more efficient to distribute the testing all over and gather the
info from other professionals.
My interests have been in building systems which can adobt any battery
technology. Past, today and tomorrow... (sounds like I'm selling
something again :)
As a hobbyist I would like have as much power from batteries as possible
to feed my toys in garage. On the other hand I wish to have 500 mile
range on some of my EVs.. someday.
Wy don't you Dan buy some cells and start testing. A normal cycling test
for one cell will take about 6 months or even more. To test 100 cells
every year you need capital and some good equipent. And I think you'll
also need some professionals to assist you on the task. We would not
like to have the tests unvalidated due obvious upcoming mishaps..
-Jukka
p.s.- Fellow listers.. I think our troll has been fed enough and it's
time for the feast soon.. I'll bring my Tesla coil (faster than standard
BBQ) and Cola..
Dan Frederiksen kirjoitti:
Both A123 and PHET cells can be gotten. if you've bought 1000000Ah worth
of TS I'm a bit surprised you haven't stayed on top of A123 and PHET by
getting a few of those for testing.
Dan
Jukka Järvinen wrote:
Hmm.. so it does not contain Cobalt, Manganese, Iron,,... Just
"nano-phosphate"... DAH !! .. why I did not think that before... :)
The bird was working for A123 in R&D and quitted to work for another
battery company just a while ago...
But.. to my own conclusions...
ANR26650M1 has about 100 Wh/kg which is very low compared to LiCoO
cells which can go up to 240 Wh/kg. Power that the A123 cell can give
out is uncomparable to Cobalt cells. So this would indicate Iron
Phosphate (their patent implies this since Mr Goodenough has tha base
of the patent with Iron) .. if you're looking for power... that's your
cell..
So what was the energy density of the AHR32157M1HD ? Is that then the
Cobalt mixture...
Did someone have already some cycling data on PHET cells ? I'm keen to
compare..
I should have a some data about TS LFP cell cycling next week.
-Jukka
Marvin Campbell kirjoitti:
Oh yes, manufacturers are absolutely famous for giving out accurate
information about new and/or future products to dumbass Freds that
call from
out of the blue.
Why just last month I called Toyota to ask about plug-in hybrids and
they
assured me they had no plans for any such thing at the present time.
--
Jukka Järvinen
R&D Director
Oy Finnish Electric Vehicle Technologies Ltd
Teollisuuskatu 24 A3
11100 RIIHIMÄKI
jukka.jarvinen(at)fevt.com
cell phone +358-440-735705
wired phone +358-19-735705
fax +358-19-735785
--- End Message ---
