Hi Bruce,
On 1/27/2013 3:12 AM, Bruce EVangel Parmenter wrote:
Is there an alternate PFC charger in the same price range that has the
same abilities/features as the Elcon PFC-2500 for Chuck's 96V VW Rabbit
EV with a PbSO4 6V-wet-cell pack?
Not that I know of. I believe even a Delta-Q has the same issue
(non-adjustable outside of the programmed curves). The Manzanita and
RUSSCO chargers are not isolated, which create real problems for
vehicles with metal battery racks (GFI trips), which a VoltsRabbit has
in the front. Anything other chargers I'm forgetting?
Is there a manual showing how to adjust the PFC-2500 so the finishing
voltage can be adjusted either because of the aging of the pack or of
climatic temperature changes (pack aging and temperature affect the
finishing voltage).
I've checked all the manuals I can find, and there is no adjustability.
As one EVDL'er suggested some time ago, I could have different curves
put in for aging batteries, which may be how I will have to do it IF the
distributor will consent to it. There is a temperature probe.
I had a Zivan charger like what Chuck has. It worked fine except it was
not as efficient as a PFC charger. A high PFC (power factor corrected)
charger wastes less power/energy as heat thus puts more into the pack,
which translates to a faster charging time.
It's not clear to me what the efficiency of the Zivan K2 is, but the
0.70-0.75 PF as measured with a KillaWatt meter means I lose a lot of
energy in the AC wiring. I could probably get away with running this
charger safely at ~11A DC on my 20A line, drawing ~16A AC. It's better
than a K&W BC-20 (charger #1 for me) in terms of heating up the wiring.
Chuck is using a long extension cord from his Apt. down to the car port
below. So, some power is lost there. Non-PFC chargers are harder on
receptacles, plugs, cords, etc., thus need to be replaced more often.
You could consider it an "extension cord", but actually the contractor
added something like 10' of 12-ga wire to the outlet on my deck and fed
it down through the woodwork to the carport. The contractor provided a
duplex outlet in the ceiling of the carport under the building. The
circuit that goes to the deck is probably about 25' of wiring, and goes
through one outlet in the kitchen (I had to replace that one once
because it got cooked). So my charging outlet in the ceiling has
probably 25-35' feet of 12-ga wire plus two outlets upstream. It works
and is certainly better than nothing.
What chargers are discussed here for the purpose of charging their EV
either off level-1 or level-2 will be advantageous to other drivers.
There are likely many drivers that have been happy and successful
charging off level-1 at home. But today, being able to tap into the
public EVSE infrastructure will have several benefits even if rarely
used.
To name a few:
-With a pack at the end of its life, the range falls off. Being able to
get a fast charge to get that last bit of usefulness out of the pack
while a new pack is on order would be advantageous.
This is getting to be an issue now. There is one EVSE near work,
although I'm not certain if I could really use it at 10PM at night for
15-30m. The Golden Gate Transit Larkspur Ferry EVSE is iffy. After
that there is nothing closer to home. Charging at work is likely not an
option.
-Of course be able to use the public charging to push your driving
ability is always nice.
:-)
-And having the ability to charge at both levels and tap into the public
infrastructure increases the resale value of the EV.
I'm also being more convinced that getting as close as possible to the
recommended charging rate is important. That's 23A for my batts. To do
the whole pack at once would require 208/240V for the Elcon, which I
could provide at the outlet, but it would be a hack without a permit.
If things go according to plan, within four to five years I'll be out of
the apt., out of the Bay Area, and living somewheres with reasonable
housing costs. That's one more pack's worth of time. I had fantasies
of stretching this pack out to eight years, but it ain't going to
happen... One more battery plant (second time) here at the apartment,
and that pack will have to do 3-4 years. I don't know how a pack that's
going to be sitting a lot (since I mostly bicycle now during dry
weather) is going to do: fewer cycles, but more other problems.
{brucedp.150m.com}
-
On Sat, Jan 26, 2013, at 10:12 PM, EVDL Administrator wrote:
I hope someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the Elcon is a
Chinese charger imported by some of the same folks who are/were behind
the
US distribution of Zivan chargers.
Quite some years ago, a friend of mine bought a Zivan for his EV's 6v
golf
car batteries. He thought the finishing voltage was too high, and spent
a
great deal of time and money arguing with the distributors and shipping
the
charger to and from them. They outright refused to set it up the way he
asked them to. They told him - in almost as many words - that they knew
better than he what his batteries needed.
-
-
On Sat, Jan 26, 2013, at 09:37 PM, Chuck Hursch wrote:
I have been on the fence regarding buying one of these Elcon chargers.
I would really like to know how they behave regarding aging flooded
lead-acid batteries of the 6V variety. The lack of real answers from
the charger vendors isn't really going to cut it. I've gotten no answer
or answers like:
-----
AFIK, the charger output current should naturally compensate for
aging batteries as a function of the change of internal resistance of
the battery pack (i.e., load to the charger). As the resistance of the
batteries increases with age, current output will change proportionally.
Voltage charging points will remain the same.
-----
Unless there is something going on I don't understand, this is BS. Not
being able to change the constant voltage charging level is going to
result in never getting there as the pack gets to be two to three years
old.
Would someone who has navigated the lifespan of a set of floodies with
one of these Elcons like to share their experience?
I think the set of curves in the charger is set with no input from the
buyer. I'd be surprised at this point if a vendor would load a set of
curves to account for aging.
One of the primary reasons I would buy an Elcon is to make more
efficient use of my 120V/20A line at my apt., plus give me the eventual
flexibility to set up for 240V/J1772 charging. US Battery and Roland,
plus some personal experience have pretty well convinced me that getting
as close as possible to C/10 bulk charging rate (~23A) is worth some
effort for pack life/performance. Well, 13ADC on a 120V line at 11A AC
is a lot better than what I can do with my Zivan K2, charging untended
into the night, safely and repeatedly. However, I've seen varying DC
charging rates for the 2500:
96xx model, pdf manuals are on p1:
13A:
Elcon: (TCCH-96-18):
http://www.elconchargers.com/catalog/item/7344653/7638094.htm
Evolve Electrics: (96XX):
http://evolveelectrics.com/PDF/Elcon/PFC2500%20Manual.pdf
11A:
KTA-EV: (96XX):
http://www.kta-ev.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/pfc2500.pdf
I suspect it really is 13ADC (since Greg McCrea did write 13A, but, hey,
he's reading a manual too), which is almost too good to be true from 11A
off the line. 11ADC is not worth buying the charger. Anybody have a
96V pack and what are you seeing?
My current pack is at 4 years and 12K+ miles, including a lot of hill
climbing. I'm juggling low-cycle spares from my 2005-vintage pack into
this pack, and my range is getting to that nasty iffy point to deal with
the hill climb to my apt. I'm probably looking at a new pack within the
next six to nine months (if I can justify it as I ride my bike to work
most of the time now), and I'd like to deal with this charging rate
issue for the new pack.
-
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