Hi Bruce -
Thanks for your comments regarding the U. of Wash survey. For an upcoming Plug In America Show, I interviewed Don Mackenzie today about his survey and a related report on PHEV charging patterns. It was an interesting discussion and I asked Don about some of your comments and concerns. I'm not exactly sure when the episode will be posted, <1.5 weeks I hope, but rest assured there are no clandestine motives with respect to the contents of the survey or its purpose. And yes, the results will be made available to the community, he said. I sent him your comments as well. They are scientists and they are trying to learn about this stuff. As Don said, "Science is an iterative process." I'll post a note here when the episode gets posted to the Plug In America website. Thanks! -- Be well, Bob Tregilus Host - Plug In America Show http://PlugInAmerica.org/ev-media/podcasts ---> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 14:03:25 -0800 > From: Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [EVDL] University of Washington charging survey > Message-ID: > <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain > > Here we go again, another survey. And for what purpose? > Will drivers get to see the results and how are they being used? > > OK, so I brought up the page, and something is just not right. > Especially the wording. They use the abbreviation EV for both EVs and > plug-in-hybrids. Yet in one of the drop down boxes during the > questioning, they use: phev and bev. So, there are conflicting words, > abbreviations, and terms that can cause confusion. > > They should have used the term plugin which covers both EVs and > plug-in-hybrids. And why do they need to know what model plugin you > drive? The list to choose from is incomplete anyway. This survey was > poorly put together, likely by someone who either did not have the > knowledge or have the time to do the job right. Or this survey is a > warmed over, modified version of some other survey that has already been > used. > > I found some of the questions are not real-life. Especially, the yes, no > choices on whether to charge at a location. > These come up in different random order each time a survey is started, > and one can submit as many surveys as they want, only do not pause and > come back to it later, as it will time out if idle too long. > > Take a look at a web page I threw together last night that has some > screen shots of the survey > http://brucedp13.20m.com/evcharging2013surveyanalytics/ > > I also added links on the above site to the two that are overseeing the > survey. Interestingly, the MIT guy has GM ties (perhaps the data will be > used by GM?). > > The decision to plug in is when you 'need' a charge 'and' it will cost > you. At that point is a decision of much the EVSE is going to burn the > driver and is it worth the time and money. > > *Obviously, any free EVSE is going to be plugged into. And why not, it > can't hurt. All the free EVSE should have been left out of the survey > (who would not want to plug in if it is free?, you aren't suppose to > park in an EV spot unless you are plugged in right?!?). > > Note: the verbiage I added at the bottom of each screen capture image > where I summarize what is really important to a driver: > -How much do I have left? > -How much further to the next EVSE? > -What level charging is it? > > Those particular yes, no charging questions were arranged and worded > quite oddly, and will cause confusion, thus weird answers. > Unless a driver takes the time to throughly read the questions, and > correctly use the supplied data to answer the question, the yes no > answers are unusable. > > OK, lets look at one of the questions I captured, the seventh yes no > question > http://brucedp13.20m.com/cgi-bin/i/evcharging2013surveyanalytics/evcharging2013surveyanalytics-brucedp-007-m.jpg > > Its a level-1, which is not 1.9kW for any Production plugin, only really > for a conversion with a high pfc charger (not-common). All Production > plugins have a carry-with level-1 EVSE that draws at best 12A (some of > the Mitsubishi L1 EVSE draw only 8A). That is 1.3kW. On a 75mi Leaf with > a usable 21kW capacity, that is ~4mi for every hour of charging at > level-1 @1.3kW. > > I do not see anyone using level-1 to charge unless it is at home or at > work where the plugin would be sitting for long periods of time. > Then why are there level-1 questions? Especially ones that have a > use-fee of $1.50/hr for L1? > No way, I would not even make an effort to stop there unless it had L2 > or higher. Did the survey ask that? ... no. > > Let's look at the level-2 questions I captured, the ninth yes no > question > http://brucedp13.20m.com/cgi-bin/i/evcharging2013surveyanalytics/evcharging2013surveyanalytics-brucedp-009-m.jpg > The first thing to look at is do you 'have-to' charge. In that case, yes > you do, you are 2 miles short of getting home. > > Next, the use-fee cost is high (but actually about normal in much of the > expensive to live-at Silicon Valley area). But the question does not > take into account that many hosts set there EVSE to not let you only be > charged for what you need. Many public EVSE have a minimum of 1 hour > use-fee even if you are only charging a few minutes.None of the costs > are shown on the EVSE signs, it is up to what drivers have placed on > comments on plugshare. If there is no way to know, then assume a 1hr min > fee will be charged. > > In that scenario, I would not have charged there, as it is likely that > there are other public EVSE I could find on plugshare before I got home. > Did the survey allow for that, no. See, a plugin driver knows this > stuff, and the person who wrote the survey didn't. > > The survey had a separate question with a drop down box asking if the > driver had charging at home. I lived in an apartment for many years, and > drove an EV. It took special hunting and selection to find one that > would let me charge at home. So the asking does one have charging at > home is likely directed to non-home dwelling drivers (apt's, condo's, > etc.). > > But it did not have the same type of question if the driver had charging > at work (not all driver do, even in EVSE rich Silicon Valley). Also one > of the questions was where else does the driver charge. The drop down > box did not have a selection for the most common locations: shopping or > parking garages/lots. I had to fill that info in using the 'other' box. > > There were a few questions that really has multiple answers but the > survey forced you to select only one. There was a question about what > renewable energy is used to make the electricity. Not only will many > driver not know this, but Utilities usually have a mix, and you can get > more hydroelectric when charging at night. So, it is not a clear or fair > way to answer those question by only being able to select one choice. > > Anyway, the next wave of plugin purchasers are more interested in saving > money than the planet (sad, but true). So those questions are out of > date, thus moot. Drivers are going to use the EVSE along their daily > driving that is the least expensive, easy to use (several available), > and there is something to do for a couple hours while charging. Did the > survey ask that? ... no. > > I could go on further about this survey, but I think I hit the big > issues. My *bottom-Line conclusion as a die-hard, help the EV-cause > anyway I can EVangel is: > -Since the results will be useless, then it is a waste of everyone's > time (fits the definition of: 'it's all academic' doesn't it?). > If a driver wants to waste their time, have a go at this survey. > > > {brucedp.150m.com} > > > > > > - > On Sun, Dec 15, 2013, at 01:58 PM, Bob Tregilus wrote: >> I've been contacted by a professor in the engineering department at the >> University of Washington. >> They are doing a survey on EV charging habits. The survey ends in >> mid-January. >> >> Here's a survey summary: >> The purpose of this research project is to understand how various factors >> affect operators decisions on when and where to charge their plug-in >> vehicles. This is a research project being conducted by Donald MacKenzie >> at the University of Washington and David Keith at the Massachusetts >> Institute of Technology. >> >> Here's the link: http://evcharging2013.surveyanalytics.com/ >> >> -- >> Be well, >> Bob Tregilus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20131217/6ca3aa5d/attachment.htm> _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
