Nothing is impossible with enough time and money but as it stands today the current power distribution cannot supply the desired power.
You are also limited but the voltage of the car. My car for instance is max 160V. So you would need 100 Amps to charge it in an hour. 600 amps to charge in 10 minutes. Even if the charge station could handle it my car wires won't. Same with your example you would still need over 300 amps at 400 volts to charge a leaf in 10 minutes or am I missing something? Or did I do the math wrong? ________________________________ From: Cor van de Water via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.evdl.org> Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 11:19 AM Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Supercapacitors could get Tesla their 7credit-EV "cannot" is an absolute and dangerous statement. Incidentally it is untrue, but let's do some math first: Presume that we *don't* use a buffer battery (AKA dump charge battery) and all power is directly drawn from the local grid to show worst-case: If a Leaf pulls up with a totally empty battery and needs to recharge to 80% (which is the max that you can do typically for fast-charge) then you need less than 20kWh. For that energy to be delivered in 10 mins, you need 120kW. The standard mid-voltage overhead wiring that distributes power throughout town typically works at voltages around 11-22kV, so you are talking about a current of less than 11 Amp of mid-voltage supply. This is a significant amount of power, but nothing difficult for the power distribution, you just need a new tap directly from the mid-voltage to a (new) transformer on the premises of the charging station. Similar to what a commercial building would require. Or a new street with a few dozen houses. See - the fast charge stations that Tesla is putting in everywhere? They draw about 100kW per charger, since they charge the Tesla pack in 1/2h so if Tesla has already done this, why are you saying "cannot"? In my opinion, it is simply an engineering question and as it appears, it has already been solved. Note that if you meant "cannot be done at home" then there is indeed the issue of the power that a typical home is connected with, usually not more than 25kW (240V 200Amp connections are common in USA, but the typical "pole pig" transformer is only supposed to do 25kW continuously een though it can be overloaded to 50kW without immediate problems) so then you would require a dump pack if you "need" to charge faster than in 1 hour. In Europe a typical home is either connected to single phase 230V with at least a 25Amp fuse, optionally upgraded to 35Amp or you can request the power company to put in all 3 fuses to give you 400V (3-phase) at a minimum of 25A, which would give you access to at minimum 5.7kW and for 3-phase it becomes at least 17kW (the 3-phase wiring is run to each electricity meter inside a home, you only need to add the wiring from meter to the 3-phase outlet and re-distribute the breakers across the 3 phases, then the power company will swap out the meter and you are set. This is routinely done when you cook electric or use power tools). Regards, Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com Email: cwa...@proxim.com Private: http://www.cvandewater.info Skype: cor_van_de_water Tel: +1 408 383 7626 -----Original Message----- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Paul Dove via EV Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 4:04 AM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Supercapacitors could get Tesla their 7credit-EV The problem is not charging time. The problem is the electrical power grid cannot supply the energy to charge a car in 10 minutes Sent from my iPad > On Nov 20, 2014, at 3:54 AM, brucedp5 via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote: > > > > http://paultan.org/2014/11/15/battery-free-electric-cars/ > Battery-free electric cars possible with graphene-based supercapacitors, > according to research > By Gregory Sze / 15 November 2014 > > [image > http://s2.paultan.org/image/2013/10/Tesla-Model-S-05.jpg > Tesla Model S-05 > ] > > A study conducted by researchers at Rice University and the Queensland > University of Technology have resulted in the creation of a graphene-based > supercapacitor film that could possibly replace the need for a conventional > battery in electric cars. > > Construction for the supercapacitor consists of two layers of graphene with > an electrolyte layer sandwiched in the middle - creating a thin and durable > film that is able to disperse large amounts of energy in a short amount of > time. Being made from graphene allows for the layer of carbon to measure in > at one atom thick. > > Naturally, this would help with the packaging of the vehicle as the film can > be incorporated into different parts of the car - from the body panels to > the roof and even the doors. Another added benefit is the fact that carbon > is more easily sourced compared to lithium, allowing for lower entry costs > in terms of manufacturing. > > Another immediate benefit of the supercapacitor film technology is apparent > in charging time. According to the researchers, the system is able to > achieve a full charge within minutes rather than the required few hours of a > more conventional battery. > > With the inclusion of the film, researchers are aiming for a future where > electric cars will no longer require a batter. Instead developing a system > capable of a maximum range of 500 kilometres - more or less the same as a > petrol-powered car. > > "In the future, it is hoped the supercapacitor will be developed to store > more energy than a Li-Ion battery while retaining the ability to release its > energy up to 10 times faster," adds Jinzhang Liu, one of lead researchers. > [(c) paultan.org] > ... > http://www.techtimes.com/articles/19844/20141110/lighweight-graphene-bas ed-supercapacitors-may-boost-power-and-range-of-electric-cars.htm > Lighweight, graphene-based supercapacitors may boost power and range of > electric cars > By Nicole Arce | November 10, 2014 > ... > http://spectrum.ieee.org/nanoclast/transportation/advanced-cars/graphene based-supercapacitors-take-another-crack-at-allelectric-vehicles > Graphene-based Supercapacitors Take Another Crack at All-electric Vehicles > By Dexter Johnson 7 Nov 2014 > ... > http://www.loadthegame.com/2014/11/13/battery-free-electric-cars-may-bec ome-real-5-years/ > Battery-free electric cars may become real in 5 years > by: Emily Smith November 13, 2014 > ... > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercapacitor > Supercapacitors > > > > > For EVLN posts use: > http://evdl.org/evln/ > http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html#nabble+template%2FNamlServlet.jtp %3Fmacro%3Dsearch_page%26node%3D413529%26query%3DEVLN%2Bbrucedp2%26days% 3D0%26sort%3Ddate > > http://www.ferret.com.au/articles/news/super-capacitor-breakthrough-to-b oost-power-of-electric-cars-n2519064 > Super capacitor breakthrough to boost power of electric cars > > http://www.ecnmag.com/news/2014/11/supercapacitors-combine-regular-batte ries-boost-power-electric-cars > "Supercapacitors" combine with batteries to boost the power of EVs > ... > http://gadgets.ndtv.com/science/news/electric-cars-could-soon-be-charged -by-their-own-bodies-617650 > > http://www.ibtimes.com/wireless-electric-rail-begins-testing-kaohsiung-t aiwan-worlds-first-completely-cable-1722488 > Taiwan's $.5B World's 1st Cable-Free Supercapacitor Light-rail System > + > EVLN: 123 N_American Soul EVs sold in Oct> Charges Quick, Longer-Range > > > {brucedp.150m.com} > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Superc apacitors-could-get-Tesla-their-7credit-EV-tp4672702.html > Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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