Pool heating does indeed work - because the system does not have to meet the same requirements. It is not a sanitary system and there is no need to protect from backfeeding the potable water supply of the municipality. The equipment - all of it, is significantly less expensive. The customers are generally more well to do - they can afford a swimming pool, and so on. The payback comes more quickly and the customer may not even care about it.
On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 10:37 AM, robert winfield via EV <[email protected]> wrote: > there is 1 place at least solar thermal wins. Heating swimming pools! I > accidentally got my 19,000+ gallon pool up to 99 degrees F last labor day > using only rooftop solarotherwise, i agree about PV, having PV since 1999 > > From: Robert Bruninga via EV <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2015 1:34 PM > Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Demand Response - (solar-thermal-NOT-2) > > > My point was that if the energy source is FREE, > > people don't care how much it takes or what its efficiency is. > > They'll use whatever is cheapest; not the most efficient. > > Well, we completely disagree. We are talking about rooftop solar. The > system to use that solar energy is NOT free. It costs, and it costs big. > And only someone with tightly held obsolete beliefs would cling to outdated > inefficient conversion of that solar energy only to heat. Solar Thermal is > really, really dead for the average homeowner. You were correct 10 years > ago, but by 2006 PV broke even with solar water heating and now PV wins > hands down. Remember, in the last decade PV solar has come down in cost > 10-to-1. > > How much usable energy you get out of the roof divided by how much solar > energy falls on that roof is a definition of EFFICIENCY. > > > Most single-family homes probably *do* have enough roof area to provide > > all their energy needs. > > Simply *not* true in most places! You are talking about "all". When you > consider that "all" of our energy needs includes ELECTRICITY, HEATING, > COOLING, and EV CHARGING, then there are VERY FEW average homes in America > that can meet "all" of their energy needs only on their roof. Period. > > Go start covering your availalable roof with in-efficinent expensive > thermal system, and STOP BURNING ANY OTHER FOSSIL FUEL for HEAT or DRIVING > cars, and see how quickly you run out of space. You'll want PV if you do > the numbers right on a year-round basis. Solar THERMAL costs more, is > harder > to install, requires more maintenance and delivers less (on an annual > basis) > in every way than the same area of today's PV (and heatpump technology). > > Do the math. > > Bob, Wb4APR > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lee Hart [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2015 10:15 AM > To: Robert Bruninga > Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Demand Response - (solar-thermal-NOT) > > Lee Hart wrote: > >> I think the word you want is "return on investment"; not "efficiency". > > Robert Bruninga wrote: > > Nope. Most people only have so much roof available for solar energy. > > And it is not enough for our total energy needs. So it is very > > important how much of that surface area you turn into retail value > > energy and is very much an "efficiency" determination. > > You are still using "efficiency" in place of other figures of merit. > Here, you're talking about economics; not efficiency. What does it COST, > versus how much money can I GET for it. That's return on investment. > > Most single-family homes probably *do* have enough roof area to provide all > their energy needs, regardless of the PV cell's efficiency. > > >> Efficiency measures how much energy you get out divided by how much > >> energy YOU put in. > > > Yes, how much do you get out VERSUS how much the SUN puts in. > > My point was that if the energy source is FREE, people don't care how much > it takes or what its efficiency is. They'll use whatever is cheapest; not > the most efficient. They decide based on economics; not efficiency. > > > > Solar thermal makes sense if you want heat. > > > It's really GOOD at making heat! > > > > Which I don't need 7 months of the year. > > But I do! I live in Minnesota, where we spend more on heat than we do on > electricity. Do not assume that what is best for you is best for everybody. > There is a place for both PV to make electricity, and solar thermal to make > heat. > > -- > Ingenuity gets you through times of no money better than money will get you > through times of no ingenuity. -- Terry Pratchett > -- > Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, [email protected] > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150117/5a4bf6b7/attachment.htm > > > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > -- Put this question to yourself: should I use everyone else to attain happiness, or should I help others gain happiness? *Dalai Lama * Tell me what it is you plan to do With your one wild and precious life? Mary Oliver, "The summer day." To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison <http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html> A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 550-2430 Land (919) 576-0824 <https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones> Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell (919) 513-0418 Desk [email protected] <[email protected]> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150117/55d587b7/attachment.htm> _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
