Agree 100% that dumping excess solar/wind energy into H2 for storage is an absolute good idea that will work. Now, then how to turn around and burn it:
1) Come up with a distribution system to pipe this billions of cubic feet of hydrogen in little tiny chunks over hundreds of millions of square miles of the country to the tiny tanks in cars in garages all across the country. 2) Electrolyze the hydrogen at the wind or solar aggregator and then burn it there at one spot in a turbine when needed. 3) Electrolyze the hydrogen into local tanks at existing gas turbine generating plants and burn as needed. My opinion is that #1 is stupid. but that #2 and #3 could be done economically. 4) it might be possible (but again stupidly complex) to let each Fool cell home garage have an electric hydrogen generator that absorbs excess solar/wind peaks and makes hydrogen and then compresses it into the cars tank. 5) Put the hydrogen hydrolyzer/compressor/tank on the car and simply PLUG IN the Fool Cell car to the 220v outlet in the garage getting signals when to operate on excess energy. Here the fool cell car really does run on a water tank and dumped excess energy. But I cannot see how #4 or #5 could EVER be simpler or economical compared to an EV with only one morving part and a battery. Bob, WB4APR On Sun, Oct 18, 2015 at 11:21 AM, Michael Ross via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote: > H2 as an energy storage medium and source of power for EVs to has > theoretical merit if we ever have truly significant renewable power > generation in the US. > > In this scenario the inefficiencies are of less consequence because on a > very large scale storing H2 is quite cheap particularly in comparison to > batteries. You just need big tanks. Comparable battery storage is hard to > even conceive. > > Batteries look OK in EVs assuming we can really make enough of them. > There is a choice to be made between EVs getting charged from a grid or > mounting a tank and fuel cell or H2 ICE. But smoothing out renewable power > into a 24 hour cycle is tricky. We don't have a good, really large scale > way to do this, and we need one. > > Once you have that renewable capacity the economics of H2 looks a lot > better. Assuming we need to get out of the fossil fuel business and I > accept that, then we need a really simple storage means for generated > energy, H2 makes sense. Batteries, pumped hydro, and so on don't scale > well to this level. > > Returning to Toyota and their choice to stick with ICE and fuel cells - > for a really long game they may be onto something. I have no idea I'd this > is their thinking. > On Oct 16, 2015 3:34 PM, "Ben Goren via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote: > > > On Oct 16, 2015, at 9:54 AM, Roland <e...@msn.com> wrote: > > > > > Install the hydrogen tank in a ICE vehicle using standard propane > > equipment that I was already running the engine on. > > > > We're obviously veering sharply offtopic, now. Some years back I looked > > into doing pretty much that -- running H2 in, in this case, an aircooled > > '68 VW Westfalia Campmobile in the stock engine with a modified fuel > intake > > system, similar to a propane conversion. I seem to remember that there > was > > somebody in Tucson that had done it with a pickup truck of some sort. I'd > > use electricity from rooftop solar panels to analyze water and collect > the > > hydrogen. > > > > The numbers just didn't add up. The volumetric density of H2 at sane > > pressures is abysmal and the embrittlement of the engine from constant > > exposure to H2 was going to shorten the lift of the engine enough that it > > didn't make environmental sense. And all that's before getting into the > > question of putting in an hydrogen storage tank plus the collection and > > compression facilities and how to get from storage tank to the > vehicle...in > > the middle of suburbia... > > > > ...compare that with even a lead acid EV conversion and the difference is > > quite stark. Comparable driving range, potentially much superior driving > > performance, much better inherent safety, and _far_ easier recharging. > And > > the entire system's energy efficiency is so much better with electric > > rather than all the waste of analyzing the hydrogen and compressing it > and > > so on. > > > > That was the final piece of the puzzle. Both methods went from solar > > panels on the house's roof to propelling the car. One method was very > > direct and simple and efficient; the other was an insane and wasteful > Rube > > Goldberg kludge. > > > > The fool cell is only marginally better than running H2 in an internal > > combustion engine (which most any engine built for gasoline will happily > do > > with no more than modifications to the intake and operating parameters > like > > timing). Even still, lead acid would have a fool cell beat...and, with > > modern battery chemistries? There's no comparison. > > > > b& > > -------------- next part -------------- > > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > > Name: signature.asc > > Type: application/pgp-signature > > Size: 801 bytes > > Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail > > URL: < > > > http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20151016/db7f33e1/attachment.pgp > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ > > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA ( > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20151018/3592ec3a/attachment.htm > > > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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