I’m not really interested in the public charging infrastructure topic, but I shop at the Lucky supermarket mentioned in the press release. I also shop at the Whole Foods market and bought my Leaf at the Nissan dealer where Bruce found other L3 EVSE.
The installation at Lucky is done correctly in my opinion. It is located in an area of the parking that is rarely used making it unlikely that any ICE vehicle will ever park there. The one at Whole Foods is in a premium area of a very crowded parking lot (very close to the Whole Foods entrance — I walk past it every time I shop there). I find ICE vehicles parked there often. From one perspective, Supermarkets are a logical place for an L3 installation. It is quite common to take about 30 minutes to shop for groceries; meaning the car is unlikely to be sitting there taking a charging spot but not charging. However, grocery shopping is something that is usually done close to home making the need for charging there unlikely. I doubt that anybody who shops at that Lucky lives more than five miles away; they would use a different store closer to home. I have yet to see the charging stations at the Lucky being used (except for the picture in the press release). The ones at the Whole Foods are used much more. I suspect it is the convenience to the store entrance rather than the need to charge as the reason they are being used. My problem with opportunity charging is that I can’t count on finding a space that is not being used and with a working EVSE. If I plan to go out for a 2.5 hour dinner someplace that is beyond the range of my Leaf, I need to be able to find a place to charge near where I’m going for dinner that is not being used by another car and with a working EVSE. If I can’t find such a place before my reservation, then I am stuck waiting while the car charges, assuming I can find a place on my way home. For me it is better to leave the Leaf at home for such trips. I did use the public charging at San Francisco airport once. It was during the Thanksgiving holiday rush and the parking garage was quite full. I pulled into an EVSE space, plugged my car in for about 1/2 hour while I ran inside to wait for my arriving guest. These spots are really convenient for access to the terminal. Ed > On Dec 10, 2015, at 12:03 AM, brucedp5 via EV <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > [ref > http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-4-L3-multi-standard-L2-public-EVSE-at-Fremont-CA-Lucky-Supermarket-td4679118.html > EVLN: 4 L3 multi-standard +L2 public EVSE at Fremont-CA Lucky Supermarket > ] > > 'In the near future suggests anything below 50 kW is not going to be > considered quick charging' > > Usually I do not post EVSE items unless they are some milestone, extra > special, etc. > http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-1500kph-932mph-L3-300kW-EVSE-Fastned-network-s-preparations-tp4678059.html > EVLN: 1500kph/932mph L3 300kW EVSE> Fastned network's preparations > > because evdl.org members have not shown that much interest. But I think the > (above) PR piece has some significance/influence on plugin drivers. I want > this post to be less of a rant and more of a request for evdl member > feedback to keep me grounded (on the right track). > > In the piece (above) and its media-outlet clone (below) > http://news.sys-con.com/node/3590457 > Lucky Supermarkets and EVgo Open the Nation's Largest Public ... > December 8, 2015 ... Located in the hottest electric vehicle (EV) adoption > area of the country, the Lucky Fremont location at 5000 Mowry Ave. features > four 50kW DC Fast Chargers ... > > It of course makes a big deal about so many (4) L3 dual EVSE in one > location. Announcing new public EVSE is not uncommon for that city (below is > about L2 EVSE) > http://www.insidebayarea.com/argus/ci_29198503/news-brief-dec-4-fremont-bulletin > News in brief for the Dec. 4 Fremont Bulletin > Dec 3, 2015 ... Fremont to add EV charging stations > Fremont will add eight public electric vehicle charging stations. > Six of the stations will be located along the new section of Capitol Avenue > between State Street and Fremont Boulevard. One will be located at the Lake > Elizabeth boathouse parking lot and another at the city's Development > Services Center parking lot at 39550 Liberty St. The city will charge $1.50 > an hour to use the stations. A state grant of $91,000 will be used to buy > the stations; Fremont will spend $31,366 to cover some additional costs. > > The L3 PR (above) is quite different. There is only one L2 EVSE and four L3 > dual EVSE. What does this make plugins that are without a L3 charging > capability, blase (chopped-liver, not-worth thinking about ...). > > Originally, I had hoped that drivers getting a L3 charge would disconnect > after 10-15minutes and move over to a L2 EVSE. But this layout of L3-focused > is for the lazy: > -connect to the L3, go shopping, etc. leaving your EV at the spot until you > are done. In other words, having so many L3 EVSE, complaints of drivers not > coming back to move their EV are reduced. > > Doesn't this seem wasteful (over-kill on the host's L3 installation costs), > inconsiderate to other driver's needs, +more > > Since non-CA EVSE installations look to CA as to what they are doing, its > this a L3 EVSE installation that should be used as an example? (go for the > quick charging customers, etc., and forget about L2 users= L2 customers can > go-fish, etc.) > > If you bring up plugshare.com and search for L3 using zip code plugshare > 94538, there is already plenty in that city: > > http://api.plugshare.com/view/location/75858 > Lucky Supermarket EVgo 4x dual > > http://api.plugshare.com/view/location/16834 > Ohlone College Blink 1x Cha > > http://api.plugshare.com/view/location/5040 > Premier Nissan of Fremont EVgo 1x Cha > > http://api.plugshare.com/view/location/19438 > Whole Foods Market EVgo 2x dual > > Using those plugshare listing as a tool to know when those L3 sites are in > use, it is the dealership's CHAdeMO and WF market that were in-use the most. > Of course this could be that the Lucky's L3 is not as well known to drivers > as it was only online as of Dec 2nd. But still, there is more L3 than > demand. > > So why is installing four L3 at Lucky's such a big deal when the area is L3 > EVSE saturated? > Perhaps this is Lucky's way of one-upping WF market? (To steal customers) > > Once again it looked like the managers spending the EVSE installation money > were not thinking of the plugin driver's greater good. Do those Lucky's > managers drive Electric? (likely not). > > I did some digging to try to find out who at NRG/EVgo is pushing this. Do > they drive Electric? Are their goals just to sell more EVSE hardware and > network contracts? Are they in a hurry to tap into the federal (and state) > EVSE purchase discounts before they dry up and go away with the next Gov. > administration change? > > I did find the NRG/EVgo boss: > https://www.linkedin.com/in/arun-banskota-53956ba > Arun Banskota > President & CEO, Petra Nova/President, Electric Vehicle Services at NRG > Energy > Houston, Texas Oil & Energy > Current NRG Energy > Previous NRG Energy, First Solar/OptiSolar, El Paso Corporation > Education The University of Chicago - Booth School of Business > > I did not find out if he drives a plugin. He may have tried one, but his > high-level (jet-set'r) CEO life likely has him in ice limos, rentals, and > the like. I did find a whole lot of interviews with Banskota, and the speak > of pushing L3 because 200 mile range drivers will want L3 100+kW charging. > See > > https://chargedevs.com/features/nrg-evgo-on-the-move-its-dc-fast-charging-network-passes-major-milestones-full-interview/ > NRG EVgo on the move: Its DC fast charging network passed major milestones > (Full Interview) > July 20, 2015 ... 'in the near future suggests anything below 50 kW is not > going to be considered quick charging' > > There were many of these interviews with him, all pushing high powered, > quick charging while also doing some quick shopping, etc. A different > approach to public EVSE installations, and NRG/EVgo's EVSE foot print is > going > https://www.nrgevgo.com/charging-locations/ > EVgo EVSE map > > A look at NRG/EVgo's map shows several states with their Freedom stations. > And CEO Banskota's aggressive plans could mean a serious paradigm shift in > public charging installations banking on 200+mi EVs driven by customers > wanting (and will ing to pay-for) more-more-more, etc. > > Even back in the 1990's, drivers had to endure non-plugin money-managers > making incorrect decisions on plugin EVSE installations (where, how much, > what type, etc.). Do we now have (job-justification) CEO's pushing their > career-enhancing plans on where the EV industry will go? (more energy hungry > plugins, just as wasteful as the ice of the 1950's were with petrol was dirt > cheap) ... > Your corrections, views, +more on this are requested. > > > > http://www.hybridcars.com/fast-charging-beijing-station-recharges-30-buses-in-15-minutes/ > Fast-Charging Beijing Station Recharges 30 Buses In 15 Minutes > December 10, 2015 ... 'UltraFast charge station works just like common gas > stations and allows electric buses, and in the future passenger cars, to > fill up very quickly and serve many vehicles in a short period of time' > > > > > For EVLN EV-newswire posts use: > http://evdl.org/evln/ > > > {brucedp.150m.com} > > -- > View this message in context: > http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Why-all-EVgo-s-L3-EVSE-eggs-in-one-basket-a-paradigm-shift-of-charging-200-mi-EVs-tp4679126.html > Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at > Nabble.com. > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
