You can not argue the math. I don't care how efficient it is in itself. If
you use hydrogen you must get it somewhere. That costs energy. It takes away
from it's efficiency so unless you live in a world where it rains hydrogen fuel
cells don't fly. Lawrence Rhodes
From: Mark Abramowitz <[email protected]>
To: Lawrence Rhodes <[email protected]>
Cc: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>;
"[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2016 10:04 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Riversimple 4 wheel (hub motors) car + very interesting
business model
#yiv5589667045 body {background-color:transparent;}You said, and I responded in
kind, the efficiency of the fuel cell. Not the hydrogen production or
electricity production, both of which vary all over the place.
And to correct you, hydrogen can and does come from different places, much as
electricity does.
So, it's not really a no brainer, particularly if you look at the duty cycle
and use it's going to put to - sometimes a BEV makes more sense, sometimes not.
That's why I asked why that combination was chosen. It's not all about
efficiency. If so, saddle up your horse, or better yet, your bicycle or walking
shoes.
- Mark Abramowitz ( speaking for myself)
President, Community Environmental Services
Senior Advisor and Immediate Past Chairman, California Hydrogen Business Council
Board Consultant to Dr. Joseph K. Lyou, Governor's Appointee to the South Coast
Air Quality Management District Governing Board
Sent from AltaMail
| From: | Lawrence Rhodes <[email protected]> |
| To: | Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]> |
| CC: | "[email protected]" <[email protected]> |
| Subject: | Re: [EVDL] Riversimple 4 wheel (hub motors) car + very
interesting business model |
| Date: | 5/16/16, 8:03 AM |
If you start with the life cycle of hydrogen, from the time it is natural gas,
reformed to hydrogen, then compressed you find quite a bit of wasted energy
just to get it to be a (liquid fuel) fuel similar to gasoline which allows
someone else to control the energy stream. With battery electric at least you
have some choice as to where you get your energy and of course with a solar
vehicle you provide the energy most of the time and when you can't you can
charge from the grid. It's a no brainer. If you do the math Fool Cells come
up short and are energy wasters. Just look at the EPA fuel economy website.
Fuel cell vehicles are in the 60mpge range. The Leaf and other steel bodied
cars are in the 112 to 120 range. The car in the article is built like a solar
racer which is why it is in the 200mpge range..however a vehicle like Stella
Lux is in the 600 to 1200mpge range. Plus it uses energy from it's solar
panel..You only have to plug in when you want to give back to the grid.
Lawrence Rhodes...
http://www.engineering.com/ElectronicsDesign/ElectronicsDesignArticles/ArticleID/10402/Net-Positive-Solar-EV-Goes-600-Miles-on-a-Charge-and-Carries-Four-Passengers.aspx
From: Mark Abramowitz <[email protected]>
To: Lawrence Rhodes <[email protected]>; Electric Vehicle Discussion
List <[email protected]>
Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>; "[email protected]"
<[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 8:33 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Riversimple 4 wheel (hub motors) car + very interesting
business model
#yiv5589667045 body {background-color:transparent;}I am not an engineer and
don't know much about total efficiencies, nor much about batteries, or even the
technical details of fuel cells, but I think you're incorrect. First, I think
the capacitor may take the place of the battery, not the fuel cell. Tell me if
I'm wrong.
Second, depending on the battery, and depending on the fuel cell, a fuel cell
may, though not necessarily be more efficient. Am I wrong?
Lastly, I haven't had time to view the video, but the more important question
is why they chose the combination. Everything isn't efficiency. High efficiency
means nothing if it doesn't meet the needs of its intended use.
- Mark Abramowitz (speaking for myself)
President, Community Environmental Services
Senior Advisor and Immediate Past Chairman, California Hydrogen Business Council
Board Consultant to Dr. Joseph K. Lyou, Governor's Appointee to the South Coast
Air Quality Management District Governing Board
Sent from AltaMail
| From: | Lawrence Rhodes via EV <[email protected]> |
| To: | "[email protected]" <[email protected]>, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> |
| Subject: | Re: [EVDL] Riversimple 4 wheel (hub motors) car + very
interesting business model |
| Date: | 5/15/16, 8:04 PM |
I'd be more concerned about the Fool Cell aspect of this vehicle.You can simply
double your efficiency by using batteries. Stella Lux and many Solar Vehicles
use expensive in hub motors. They sound awful but get results. Stella Lux I
believe made a record run over two days of 932 miles on one charge during the
last World Solar Challenge but that was with the help of their 1.5kw solar
panel. So more than half of their range came from the sun. If someone has
heard of dramatic in hub motor failures please enlighten. The solar teams
don't mention any of these problems. URL below has some specifications of
Stella Lux. This is the vehicle they should make. Not a fool cell vehicle.
However their EV design seems very efficient. Lawrence Rhodes
http://www.engineering.com/ElectronicsDesign/ElectronicsDesignArticles/ArticleID/10402/Net-Positive-Solar-EV-Goes-600-Miles-on-a-Charge-and-Carries-Four-Passengers.aspx
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