Look up fan assisted radiators, or fan convectors. On 30 November 2017 at 15:35, Peri Hartman via EV <[email protected]> wrote: > Robert, your method of putting fans near a radiator is something I had > wanted to try. Really getting OT, here, so if people prefer, reply > privately. > > A couple years ago I had to replace my gas furnace. I looked into getting a > heat pump system but it was not possible with the various constraints and > payback period so I bought a new gas furnace :( > > Anyway, one of the options I studied was to put in radiators instead of > forced air. I would have run pex through the ducts to each register. One of > the advantages of this kind of unit would have been space - no blowers, and > I could have reclaimed return air duct space. > > I didn't want surface mount radiators because of the space they take. It > might have been possible, but not easy. Instead I wanted to find some > recessed radiators with a small fan to waft the air over the fins and into > the room - gently, not with a breeze. Couldn't find any such product. Also, > the fans would have to be very high quality in order to last and operate > extremely quietly. > > Has anyone considered this? > > Peri > > ------ Original Message ------ > From: "Robert Bruninga via EV" <[email protected]> > To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]> > Cc: "Robert Bruninga" <[email protected]> > Sent: 30-Nov-17 4:54:49 AM > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Heat pump vs resistive Heater (with radiators) > >> Yep, 90F is just fine for heating since it is continuous and low velocity. >> Sure, people love to stand over a blast of 140F furnace air, for the few >> minutes the furnace is on, because they get so cold with no warm air when >> it cycles off. I prefer the consistent warming of my heatpump and >> cast-iron radiators. >> >> PLUS it reduced our $3000/yr oil costs down to only $1000 electric which >> was easily made up with another solar array to keep us 100% carbon and oil >> free. See http://aprs.org/geothermal.html >> >> The water in the heatpump and old cast iron radiators rarely gets above >> about 105F and yet heats the house in Maryland just fine*. Of course, >> being a hacker, I keep the hot water that low (higher efficiency for the >> heatpump) by having some convenient fans by some of the radiators where we >> can hide the fans. This doubles convection and heat flow while keeping >> the water temp lower. The heatpump can go to 126F, but the efficiency is >> -much- lower than when it is running at only 105F. >> >> PLUS it is free "zone" heat in every room, simply by which fans are on. >> >> I even wired an outlet on the floor near every radiator where we can hide >> a fan, so that the fans only come on while the compressor is running. >> >> Our church went from $4000/yr for Propane down to $1100 added electric >> with an air-source heatpump. And again, we are reducing that to zero with >> another solar array. >> >> * When temps get below about 20F, then the radiator water temp does get to >> about 115F and the house can barely maintain 65F. At lower temps, I >> finally turn on the AUX heat. >> >> The three HVAC companies all wanted to design an 8 TON heatpump and all >> were leery that the water temp would not be high enough for COMFORT >> because "radiators are designed for 140F". I argued, that the house was >> built with no insulation and with blown in insulation a few decades ago, >> that the radiators are now oversized, AND that if I needed more heat, I'd >> do the fan thing. >> >> Two of the three companies refused to do the job because they clearly had >> rarely done a heatpump-to-hot water system and only were following >> "typical" guidelines without any actual "engineering" to match my needs. >> The winning contractor, agreed to do it MY way and his was the lowest >> price too. He got $28k, the others wanted $38k and $48k. Half of that >> was the HEATPUMP cost. The other half was for the Geothermal wells. A >> lot, but reducing my family's $6000/yr energy costs down to only about >> $300/yr very qickly has made it up. >> >> If we had gone for air-source instead of ground-source, the cost would >> have been half but not quite as efficient. Besides, the wife wanted a new >> driveway, and since that is where the wells had to go, then she got a new >> driveway (costing more than the entire HVAC system in the first place) yet >> that was all part of the job which also qualified for the 30% energy tax >> credits. >> >> >> Bob >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: EV [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of ROBERT via EV >> Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2017 12:22 AM >> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List >> Cc: ROBERT >> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Heat pump vs resistive Heater (never buy another AC >> unit) >> >> Anyone who has a home heat pump can check the register temperature with a >> thermometer. You will find if the heat strips are not energized the >> maximum temperature is about 90 F with an outside air temperature of about >> 68 F. Give it a try. Then tell me I am incorrect. In addition, the >> current building codes require a 15% fresh air intake to the return air. >> The old codes allowed a closed recirculating system. This does not help >> the efficiency but improves the air quality in the structure. >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: EV <[email protected]> on behalf of EVDL Administrator via >> EV <[email protected]> >> Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2017 10:13 PM >> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List >> Cc: EVDL Administrator >> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Heat pump vs resistive Heater (never buy another AC >> unit) >> >> On 29 Nov 2017 at 18:14, ROBERT via EV wrote: >> >>> A heat pump outputs a register temperature of approximately 90 F. >>> This low a temperature blowing across your skin is not comfortable to >>> a lot a people. >> >> >> I think this is less true of recent heat pumps. >> >> I'd like to hear from someone who owns an EV with a heat pump -- how warm >> does the air from the vents feel in the winter? >> >> I think that many or most older heat pumps did have this annoyance. It's >> not an EV, but I knew someone who had a late-1990s GSHP (Waterfurnace >> brand) at home. The heating air from the vents always felt cool to me, >> meaning that it was below body temperature. Ninety deg F would be quite >> believeable. >> >> That's definitely not the case with my Mitsubishi mini-split from 2013. >> Although I haven't measured its outlet temperature in heating mode, most >> of the heating seasons it feels quite warm, almost hot. So it has to be >> well above body temperature. As the outdoor temperature falls, its outlet >> temperature declines too. However, it stays noticeably above body >> temperature down to an outdoor temperature of around -15 deg C. >> >> Thus I see no reason that an EV heat pump would have to produce air that >> feels cool under most conditions. For the times that it did, I'd expect >> it to have auxiliary resistive heat. >> >> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA >> EVDL Administrator >> >> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL >> Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ >> [http://www.evdl.org/images/evdl.jpg]<http://www.evdl.org/help/> >> >> EVDL Subscription Information and Help<http://www.evdl.org/help/> >> www.evdl.org About the EVDL: The Electric Vehicle Discussion List, founded >> in 1991 by EV enthusiast Clyde Visser, is an active and vital source of >> information and help for people ... >> >> >> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = >> Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To >> send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage >> http://www.evdl.org/help/ . >> [http://www.evdl.org/images/evdl.jpg]<http://www.evdl.org/help/> >> >> EVDL Subscription Information and Help<http://www.evdl.org/help/> >> www.evdl.org About the EVDL: The Electric Vehicle Discussion List, founded >> in 1991 by EV enthusiast Clyde Visser, is an active and vital source of >> information and help for people ... >> >> >> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> [http://www.evdl.org/images/evdl.jpg]<http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html# >> usub> >> >> EVDL Subscription Information and >> Help<http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub> >> www.evdl.org >> About the EVDL: The Electric Vehicle Discussion List, founded in 1991 by >> EV enthusiast Clyde Visser, is an active and vital source of information >> and help for people ... >> >> >> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >> EV -- Electric Vehicle Discussion List - lists.evdl.org >> ...<http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org> >> lists.evdl.org >> The Electric Vehicle Discussion List is a forum for discussing the current >> state of the art and future direction of electric vehicles (EVs). We >> define an EV as a ... >> >> >> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA >> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >> [https://s1.yimg.com/dh/ap/default/130909/y_200_a.png]<http://groups.yahoo >> .com/group/NEDRA> >> >> Yahoo! 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-- Paul Compton www.morini-mania.co.uk www.paulcompton.co.uk (YouTube channel) _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
