That's the whole point. The extra renewables won't be wasted, they can be dumped into EV batteries worldwide at very low cost. And all that surplus energy wont be "surplus", it will be used to generate Hydrogen (though inefficiently) but easy to do in large scale while the sun shines and then burn cleanly at night at large scale or during low renewable production.
But what will drive everything is for TOU metering so the end user can choose when to use expensive energy and when to use cheap energy. I agree that today, TOU rates suck and are entirely to the benefit of the utilities. In our area in 1990 the day night ratio was 10-to-2 cents (a 5 to one advantage). But then they deregulated the utilites and for the last 20 years they screwed us with 15-to-10 cents ratios. But this will change. Bob -----Original Message----- From: EV <ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org> On Behalf Of Mark Abramowitz via EV Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 11:41 AM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.evdl.org> Cc: Mark Abramowitz <ma...@enviropolicy.com> Subject: Re: [EVDL] pack-aging: Tesla has V2G I will partly agree. I doubt that it will be free, nothing ever is, even if free would still make sense. Yes, I agree that we will need a lot more renewables to make up for the renewables we lose. You say double - so let’s assume that. I don’t know if that’s correct. But to suggest that it’s okay, I have to disagree. It’s really unnecessary to waste those resources. We just need the correct mix of technologies that can provide short-term local storage AND grid-scale, long term storage. - Mark Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone > On May 20, 2020, at 8:15 AM, Robert Bruninga <bruni...@usna.edu> wrote: > > Which is why Charging of EV batteries (or home ones to) will > eventually be FREE in exchange for the benefit to th e grid when > needed. Eventually we will get to having DOUBLE (or more) the solar > and wind capacity than we "need" in order to have enough to bank up > when they are not available. That may seem wasteful, but it is only a > factor of 2 increase in investment which is small considering the cost > of solar and wind have come down a factor of Ten just in the last decades. > And will continue to fall. > > But until the utilities put the buy-back into their tariffs to the end > consumer, a home battery is not of much value. > Bob > > -----Original Message----- > From: EV <ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org> On Behalf Of Mark Abramowitz via > EV > Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2020 10:15 AM > To: Peri Hartman <pe...@kotatko.com>; Electric Vehicle Discussion List > <ev@lists.evdl.org> > Cc: Mark Abramowitz <ma...@enviropolicy.com> > Subject: Re: [EVDL] pack-aging: Tesla has V2G > > Many places already need it. Both Germany and California (Texas?) > curtail large amounts of renewable generation. > > Battery storage works well for short term, small scale storage. It > doesn’t work well for grid scale, seasonal storage. > > Here’s one chart (from the EU) that gives a view of appropriate > technologies given the application. > > https://images.app.goo.gl/9rkqbwvBe6fw9cvA6 > > - Mark > > Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone > >> On May 20, 2020, at 6:55 AM, Peri Hartman via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> >> wrote: >> >> At some point, we're going to need lots of grid storage. Right now, >> the mix of wind and solar is relatively low. But as that increases, >> we'll need storage capacity to span non generative periods. During >> transition, we can still rely on natural gas power plants and others. >> Eventually, we'll simply need storage, and lots of it. There are >> various forms of storage, such as hydro, flywheel, hydrogen, or battery. >> >> Having distributed battery storage sounds like a good part of the >> mix, to me. Whether they're individually owned or provided by the >> energy company, we'll see. Probably a bunch of options will appear. >> And we'll see a bunch of different scales of storage: homeowner, >> business complex, substation, energy plant. >> >> Peri >> >> << Want to know about the effects of leaf blowers ? >> https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >> >> >> ------ Original Message ------ >> From: "paul dove via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org> >> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.evdl.org> >> Cc: "paul dove" <dov...@bellsouth.net> >> Sent: 20-May-20 5:03:34 AM >> Subject: Re: [EVDL] pack-aging: Tesla has V2G >> >>> I would consider it if I had a million mile battery also if Tesla >>> owned the battery so that when the range dropped I get it replaced free. >>> >>> You can save a lot of money with DIY or just owning your own power >>> generation maybe in the long run but lots of people will pay more >>> gladly if someone else is in charge of keeping it operational. >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>>> On May 19, 2020, at 10:59 PM, Alan Arrison via EV >>>>> <ev@lists.evdl.org> >>>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> People don't care about feeding the grid, they want to be able to >>>> use their big battery to run their house when the grid goes down. >>>> Oops, this would kill sales of their powerwall. >>>> >>>>> On 5/19/2020 9:28 PM, evln via EV wrote: >>>>> Here what I was going to post, read: >>>>> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was > scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20200520/e5 > 650ea8/attachment.html> > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html > INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
