Multiple computers? “ Feb 7 (Reuters) - Tesla Inc (TSLA.O)decided to remove one of the two electronic control units included in the steering racks of some made-in-China Model 3 and Model Y cars to meet fourth-quarter sales goals while coping with global chip shortage, CNBC reported on Monday.”
https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/tesla-cut-steering-component-some-cars-deal-with-chip-shortage-cnbc-2022-02-08/ - Mark Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone > On Feb 8, 2022, at 1:19 PM, mark hanson via EV <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi Mark etc, > > > > Fundamentally: There's really *too* many variables to do FSD (full self > driving) safely. > > > > I just got back from Blacksburg, VA, professor Dave's Tesla-3 with the > *latest* as of 2-8-22 self driving software to show off. We let it drive us > around Blacksburg (about 30 minutes) and it got confused, *stuck* in a > round-a-bout, another road T, had to give it some accel and then made a left > turn *almost hitting* a big black truck head-on (Dave jerked the steering > wheel thankfully). Going back through the neighborhood, someone popped out > between two parked vehicles on the side of the road and it almost clipped > her. Due droplets on the cameras (or mud) can cause intermittent issues > I've found. It's a great EV but Tesla needs to drop this self driving > thing, not worth having live folks as experiments. > > > > I thought with multiple computers drop out issues would be solved, but now > I'm convinced after seeing firsthand actual FSD errors not to pay the extra > (now $12K I was just told) to be part of Elon's experiment. > > > > Best Regards, > > The other Mark Hanson > > > > Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2022 08:43:29 +0000 (UTC) > > From: Mark Laity-Snyder <[email protected]> > > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]> > > Subject: [EVDL] Fw: Request Tesla crash data > > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > > Mark:? Thanks for this.? I am not sure if it will help.? I agree with you > that Tesla should have two or even 3 computers for full self driving.? If > one were to glitch out, that is all that is preventing you or many others > from being injured or killed.? Tesla has a 5 star safety rating.? So the > passengers and driver will probably be ok but bystanders be aware. > > EVDL: ?I am the guy Mark was talking about.??Story time!? So my wife got in > the 1st Tesla accident.? FSD was on and she was driving.? She was fiddling > with the sound system (or something) on the lovely screen that practically > begs you to play with it and we were on a road we don't often go down.? It > happened to be a T intersection with a stop sign.? She saw the stop sign too > late and ran into a short wall.? This was before FSD registered stop signs > and would have slowed down for a stop sign.? Such is our luck.? On the 2nd > Tesla accident, I can't remember the details leading to the accident since I > sustained a pretty bad head injury (enough to cause double vision for 6 > months).? However we saw the dash cam footage which shows the car just > driving off the road.? No change in speed or course correction.? I was given > many tests after the accident to rule out some physical problem that may > have caused me to lose consciousness.? There was no smoking gun that would > say "Yes he lost consciou sness because...".? I am lucky Tesla has that 5 > star safety rating because other than the double vision I had no lasting > injuries.? The people who were going to move the vehicle wanted to cut the > vehicle at the battery.? Fortunately someone realized it was a Tesla and > didn't do that which would have started a runaway fire.?? > > So lessons learned are exactly what folks have said about losing focus.? FSD > is very good ALMOST all the time.? In that one case out of 1000+ the human > must be ready to take over in a split second. I am still very hopeful for > FSD to be solved. If any company can do it it will be Tesla at this point > since they have the most data.? I think the super computer is just used for > training the cars to get better and the more data they have the faster that > will happen.? Waymo has a lovely system that only works in the geofenced > area that is premapped and safe.? ?I agree with Lawrence that cameras should > be all that is needed.? Radar was probably giving false signals.? Then there > is question of priority.? The cameras see all clear but the radar sees > something else like a leaf or snow or a rabbit.? Which one has priority??? > > I am not sure where my focus was but it was not where it needed to be.? I > was out of work for over 8 months and now I can't afford to replace the > Tesla.? It is a great car.? Even after all that, I would probably get FSD > again especially since it is improving so rapidly.? It is like having a > front row seat watching our computer overlords take their first steps before > they take over our lives. > > > > ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: mark hanson > <[email protected]>To: 'Mark Laity-Snyder' <[email protected]>Sent: > Friday, February 4, 2022, 10:39:55 PM ESTSubject: Request Tesla crash data > > Hi Mark, > > > > ? > > > > I saw a few articles that Tesla will supply the crash data recorded in the > vehicle: https://www.tesla.com/support/privacy .? I think you said in both > your cases, that the vehicle thought the self driving or auto pilot was off > when it was actually on.? It needs at least 3 computers to vote for life > critical operations, like self driving on a curvy road ? glitch, drops out & > goes straight, ok for a desk PC but not for a vehicle.? Seeing this thread > go around on the EVlist again. > > > > ? > > > > Have a renewable energy day, > > > > ? > > > > Mark > > > > ? > > > > Mark E. Hanson > > > > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: > <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20220208/d3a23bc6 > /attachment.html> > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 2 > > Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2022 06:21:49 -0500 > > From: Peter Eckhoff <[email protected]> > > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]> > > Subject: [EVDL] Request Tesla crash data > > Message-ID: > > <CADDOj2ASKMeyZHfj4Ez2p=Uodo9DTbhWFaOLKn=sxj8r643...@mail.gmail.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > > > All these stories remind me of the one where there was a road with a sharp > left turn. One foggy night, some kid ran the yellow line at the apex of the > "L" straight up the proverbial oak tree. In the morning, he came back and > found he got a car. Someone was following the yellow line right up and into > that tree. > > > > That story has me thinking that Tesla, Waymo, etc. are needing to pass a > Pankster Obstacle Situation (POS) test in order to be certified as anywhere > near Level 5. > > > > At a T-intersection, Tesla missed a Stop sign?? Why did it not recognize > that it was at a Stop signable intersection and come to a complete (okay > "the coast is clear" rolling) stop? What would happen if a drunk took out > the sign the day before and it had not been replaced? What happens if a kid > places a garbage bag over the stop sign in an impromptu POS test? > > > > In an interview between Sandy Munro and Elon Musk, Musk was saying that road > line painting was not standardized and Tesla was having a hard time > navigating through road construction areas. Here you have an area where > people are working and are expecting to go home at shift's end instead of to > a hospital or morgue. Okayyy, Tesla is working on it. > > > > Last night, I put my Tesla Model Y into Autopilot a little before a > construction area. It was a slow drizzle/rainy night. Autopilot lost it > and I had to take control. I'm grateful that no one was beside me and it > didn't go the other direction and into a Jersey Barrier. > > Autopilot had grabbed the "wrong lines"? > > > > The more questions I ask of FSD and its kin, the more I am convinced that > the sensors should be beefing up the driver's skills and alerting them to > possible bad situations instead of trying to play God with your safety and > mine. > > > > I think we have to ask questions of any FSD system. FSD is not an airliner > being able to fly autonomously between point A and B in a well controlled > airspace or SpaceX nailing a landing on a barge somewhere out in the middle > of the Atlantic. We are dealing with situations where people, cars, and > environmental factors interact in a myriad of ways every second of the day. > You don't have a kid kicking a ball out onto a runaway or a > commuter/pedestrian with "get home-itis" in the middle of the Atlantic. > When was the last time a deer crossed the path of a SpaceX rocket? > > > > I think it is past time to rethink about obtaining Level 5 and concentrate > on beefing up driver awareness of potential problems and letting the > computer between our ears try and handle these situations. > > We are far better in reading the intentions of other drivers and pedestrians > than any FSD package that may have a problem recognizing and then displaying > the silhouette of a pedestrian. > > > > Peter Eckhoff > > > > PS I love my Model Y and I am not going to sell it. She's like a beloved > girl friend with a few bad habits. > > > > > > Have a renewable energy day, > > > > Mark > > > > Mark E. Hanson > > 184 Vista Lane > > Fincastle, VA 24090 > > 540-473-1248 phone & FAX, 540-816-0812 cell > > REEVA: community service RE & EV project club > > Website: www.REEVAdiy.org (See Project Gallery) > > UL Certified PV Installer > > My RE&EV Circuits: www.EVDL.org/lib/mh > > REEVA Demo: <http://youtu.be/4kqWn2H-rA0> http://youtu.be/4kqWn2H-rA0 > > > <https://www.weatherlink.com/embeddablePage/show/a88920376f864ecabaed843dd89 > 75b8d/signature> Fincastle Solar Weather Station > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20220208/c803e61b/attachment.html> > _______________________________________________ > Address messages to [email protected] > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ > LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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