I will say Tesla was one of the worst offenders for R2R (I made a video on it: https://youtu.be/9TWmFtp-NjM). However in the last year or so (probably due to all the legislation in several states), they have been making good inroads to support self and independent repair. I need to do an updated video.
Here's what they have done recently: 1. Allowed anyone to create a free account on https://service.tesla.com/ to get access to the service manuals and wiring diagrams. This was about $32/hour previously! 2. Similarly they allow customers to login to https://epc.tesla.com/ which is the parts catalog, they won't give you prices unless you have a commercial business and apply for an account, but hey; at least it's a start. 3. They have built in a "secret" service mode in the cars themselves that enables owners to get access to a small amount of data on the car, and do things like reflash a newly installed module. (howto: https://youtu.be/t07YJTqouo8) 4. They have now started offering an expensive inspection to allow salvage vehicles back on the supercharger network. 5. You can now buy a subscription to "Toolbox" which is Tesla's service software. It costs $500 a month. This will let you do most everything except security-related functions, or anything that might upgrade your configuration. What's still a problem: 1. Some parts are just not available, they are listed as "Tesla only" or "Restricted" in the parts catalog. They won't sell it to you, period. For example, say you have a minor accident and need a new bumper cover. They will sell you the unpainted version, but if you want the painted one that is ready to bolt on, they won't sell it. You have to take it to them and pay them to install it at $200-$250/hour. Both are listed in the parts catalog. Pretty much all major parts are not available, such as drive motors, battery packs, etc. 2. General parts availability is poor even on parts that they will sell you. Sometimes you have to wait months! 3. Some parts are nutso expensive, while others are crazy cheap. Elon promised that Service will never be setup to be a profit center, but with some of the prices that's hard to believe. 4. Tesla service is generally hostile to most owners, (varies by location and employee) and if they find out you did any work on your own car, they will outright lie and tell you that your warranty is void and that any future damage is 100% your fault. 5. They don't give you detailed diagnostic access, no matter what you pay. Tesla calls this "Garage" internally, and it is used to "crack" (decode) causes of problems. (Cracking the CAN logs) Without this, you have to do a huge amount of reverse-engineering like I have to determine root causes in many cases. 6. By doing most of the above, they are in violation of R2R legislation in several states. This is why a class-action might be good for owners. One of the main reasons to support R2R is to allow options outside of Tesla Service which are all company-owned (monopoly) and have a very poor reputation. I've personally dealt with them for warranty issues, and I have some crazy stories! In addition, I've helped somewhere around 2000 Tesla owners in the past 8 years, and I've heard plenty of first-hand experiences which caused the owners to contact me because they were so frustrated. In general the service employees tend to regard customers with the same concern as something smelly stuck to the bottom of their shoe. (Needs to be scraped off ASAP) They will lie, make stuff up, and stall customers, then present them with bills for stuff that should be a warranty covered item. Even if you are one of the few that finds a good employee or location, you might still wait weeks/months to get an appointment, or once you do, wait similar time scales to get the parts needed in. Tesla engineering is top-notch, they really are good at it, and I believe this is not because of Elon, but despite him. See: https://cleantechnica.com/2022/11/23/thousands-of-very-high-quality-tesla-employees-are-why-tesla-is-a-success/ Quality is a little lacking, and service is outright bad. If they fixed the quality, then it would reduce the burden on service, so it's something they really need to do if they want to keep growing. I hear quality in the Fremont plant is the lowest of any of Tesla's facilities, and Beijing is the best. Very telling. I think the US is in big trouble in the long run unless we can get back our pride and local manufacturing prowess. All we have remaining is the technology lead, and that is not enough long-term. On Sun, Mar 19, 2023 at 9:26 AM EV List Lackey via EV <[email protected]> wrote: > On 19 Mar 2023 at 14:43, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: > > > only a honda dealer was allowed to have the software to reprogram it. > > The dealer charged $300 for a tidbit of work. > > Exactly! Right to Repair is a major concern for every vehicle owner. > John > Deere farm equipment is the "poster child" for RTR, but it's a serious > problem across nearly all (perhaps ALL) vehicles, electric and thermal, > and > not just Teslas. > > Other privacy matters arise, too. > > Remember the infamous 2013 New York Times review of the Tesla S, in which > the author deliberately drove round in circles to run the battery flat? > Most EV supporters cheered when Elon Musk called them out by using the > car's > own data, but the existence of that level of spyware in the car shook me > up. > > I've since read of someone convicted of murder in the UK because his car's > manufacturer's data showed that he'd parked near where the body was found > and opened the back of the car. So it's clear that Tesla is far from > alone > in this. And can you say "On Star"? > > In the first ~7 years of selling the Zoe EV, with the exception of Norway > sales, Renault didn't sell the battery with the car. They leased it. > That > probably helped sales enormously by removing buyers' fear of an expensive > battery exchange, and by appreciably reducing the sales price of the car. > But they infamously shut down charging ability on a few early Zoes for > which > the owners defaulted on the battery lease payments. That was pretty > unsettling too. (After the resulting negative PR, they said that they'd > no > longer do that, and they no longer lease the batteries anyway, but AFAIK > they never actually disabled their ability to do so. For all I know, they > may have a big red button somewhere that can shut off our 2020 Zoe's > charging - and we own the battery.) > > Of course some people think that all this is just fine. "I have nothing > to > hide," or "They called help for me when I had a wreck." or "They notified > me > that the battery needed service." But to me, the whole situation with > vehicle control and privacy is quite dystopian. > > It's not just vehicles, either. It's all kinds of consumer goods. > > IMO, if you buy *anything* and the vendor or the manufacturer can control > how you use it and/or who can repair it, you don't really own what you've > bought. > > David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey > > To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it. Use my > offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt > > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = > > With inflation at 7.5 percent, you lose half your money in 9 years. > The only way to outperform that consistently is crypto. Why, just > this year I've already lost half my money. > > -- Anonymous > > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = > > _______________________________________________ > Address messages to [email protected] > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20230319/5dcb0ffd/attachment.htm> _______________________________________________ Address messages to [email protected] No other addresses in TO and CC fields HELP: http://www.evdl.org/help/
