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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Motor Idea (Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G)
2. Re: Motor Idea (Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G)
3. Re: computing costs (Brian Jackson)
4. Better Emergency Brake (Mark Hanson)
5. Roland Website ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
6. Warcharging (Glenn Saunders)
7. Re: How to help move things forward (David Dymaxion)
8. Re: Motor Idea (Marty Hewes)
9. Re: Motor Idea (Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G)
10. Re: Basic drivetrain questions, was Re: Looking for a
Conversion Kit for a 1929 Ford. (Greg Owen)
11. Re: Better Emergency Brake (Roland Wiench)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 13:35:51 -0400
From: "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor Idea
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Cool! I have heard of their EMIS systems but havent seen the motor part
of it. Do they machine the ends for the yokes or is it an adapter that
fits over their current shafts?
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bruce Weisenberger
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 13:18
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor Idea
This but it sounds like you are reinventing Netgains Slip yolk and tail
shaft assemblies. They end in a universal joint that you attach to your
drive axle to.
The tail shaft attaches to the motor spline. They have it as part of
their hybrid emis system to turn any
vehicle to a hybrid.
--- "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Wouldn't it just be easier to make taperlock adapters for the axle
> shafts? The only reason not to go this way I would believe would be
> maybe trying to cut down on the width? I think some type of clutch
> arrangement similar to a detroit locker would be needed on one side
> though so that the axle would turn corners easily.
> Maybe just use a
> differential pumpkin?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Jeff Major
> Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 12:32
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor Idea
>
>
> Hi Jim,
>
> Yea, some of that steel in there by the shaft is used by the
> magnetics.
> Talking about the inner core of the armature. In fact, sometimes the
> shaft steel itself is in the magnetic circuit.
> Mostly in 2 pole motors,
> not so much in the 4 pole variety. The steel in the armature core
> between the shaft and the slots was called "depth below slots" back in
> my days of magnetism. It is kind of the flip side of the steel in the
> frame between the poles. You need it.
>
> There are motors with big old holes all the way thru the center. Most
> of these will have pretty high pole counts. 8, 12 or 16 poles. With
> more pole pairs, you need less back iron and depth below slots. But
> you have some adverse affects, ie higher frequency.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jeff M
>
>
>
> --- Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >
> > --- Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > What if the typical 9" was available with a
> hollow shaft large
> > > enough to pass a decent size axle shaft through.
> A little spline on
> > > the inside, fact gear, or taper cups and you
> could take two motors
> > > and a shaft with a yoke on one end and a
> threaded nut on the other
> > > and assemble it and quiet easily un asemble it.
> >
> > Hey Jeff
> >
> > The problem is that the bore holes used in these
> motors is just 1
> > 3/16th for the 8" and 1 3/8th" for the 9's (from
> memory). Boring out
> > a hole through the shaft would leave very little
> material left to keep
>
> > the armature where it's supposed to be (centered
> inside).
> >
> > I would suspect that increasing the shafts
> diameter to lets say a
> > couple, three inches would change the properties
> of the armatures as
> > the laminations would loose a lot of their mass.
> I'd like to hear
> > from Lee or Jeff as to if or by how much this
> might effect the
> > armature if one were to increase the lamination
> hole size while adding
>
> > nothing to the diameter or length.
> >
> > Anyway that's my take on it (for now) lol.
> >
> > Cya
> > Jim Husted
> > Hi-Torque Electric
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 13:37:12 -0400
From: "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor Idea
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Here is a thought - to put the axle shafts through a hole would be
needed but in theory would NOT be an empty space. The axles would be in
there which are steel so wouldn't the suspected loss of metal be put
right back in there?
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 13:20
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor Idea
Jim Husted wrote:
> I'd like to hear from Lee or Jeff as to if or by how much this might
> effect the armature if one were to increase the lamination hole size
> while adding nothing to the diameter or length.
I don't think a 2" or even a 3" shaft would make any detectable
difference on a 4-pole (or higher) motor. The magnetic field is going
"in" at 6 and 12 o'clock, and "out" at 3 and 9 o'clock, so it doesn't
even pass through the center where the shaft is.
Some motors even have lightening or cooling holes drilled through the
armature, parallel to and relatively close to the shaft. They just have
to leave enough iron so you don't neck down its cross sectional area as
the field goes from 12 to 9, 9 to 6, 6 to 3, and 3 to 12 o'clock.
Now, a 2-pole motor would be a different story.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 7:04:16 -0700
From: Brian Jackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] computing costs
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
I would be interested to know more about this too. I have been looking at a
couple of generators for use in my planned EV... or hybrid. If there are better
generator solutions than the one's I've found so far, I would like to know. :)
Brian
---- "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
=============
I hate to ask a question like this, as I think I have seen it discussed before,
or at least similar discussions, but I am at work, and am limited to what I can
look at over the internet. Read, I can't search the archives.
So the story goes.
I was talking to my wife last night about my car. It has been in the works for
a long time, and I have a real use for it soon. Most of the time, I am riding
in a vanpool to work, so I don't need a car. But I am going back to finish my
masters degree, and it is a 28 mile round trip. We currently have one car, a
minivan which gets around 17-18 mpg. It would be nice to not have to take the
van to school everyday. She was asking would we save on gas money if I got my
electric car running. I think so, but because I don't know how much power it
takes to get there and back I couldn't answer completely. This is what I was
thinking:
Cost of the gas car:
miles / mpg = gallons; gallons * price per gallon = cost to travel
(28 / 17) * 2.75 ~ $4.53 for the round trip
I assume that the cost of the electric car would be similar, but is there a way
to estimate the usage? The car is a 1974 VW bug, and I want to run it at 144V,
curtis 1231C, and am guessing the pack size will need to be at least 80 Ah. I
was considering SLA, but might do flooded. Electricity in our area is about
$0.08/kwh. The distance includes ~8 miles of highway, ~6 miles city with up
hills, on the way there. Just reverse the process for home, ~6 miles of city
and downhill, and ~8 miles of highway home.
Cost of the electric car:
miles / mpkwh = kwh; kwh * price per kwh = cost to travel
(28 / ???) * 0.08 ~ ?????????
Is this correct way to compare costs? Am I missing information to make an
informed guess? I appreciate all comments.
Thanks,
Brian
---- Msg sent via @=WebMail - http://webmail.usu.edu/
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------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 12:52:15 -0500
From: "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Better Emergency Brake
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Hi,
With the usual problemn of an EV gaining weight and still wanting braking
safety, I'm curious if there is a good way to get better emergency braking.
It seams like on a rear disc brake, the emergency brake handle just slows
the vehicle down. This is what happens on my E-Porsche and our diesel
Beetle with rear disc brakes. I remember with my Electro-Metro which had
*drum* rear brakes, I could lock up the rear wheels with the emergency brake
handle.
Is there a way to improve emergency braking if the main brakes fail? Or is
that just an inherent problem with rear disc brakes?
have a renewable energy day,
Mark
_________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 10:58:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Roland Website
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
RE: Free website....
Our motives are to help the EV guys that need a
website. A simple website takes us very little time
and we use it to train our people. Most of the
features we implement are now boilerplate from our
earlier efforts. Most of the EVers seem unable or
unwilling to spend time and money on a website. Many
are unaware of web restrictions or advertising
interference or "pop-ups" or "limits on viewing" or
hidden charges or other traps of most free websites.
We have never participated in any of those tactics.
AND, we get increased references and respect that we
can all be proud to have attached to our people and
our efforts.
If we REALLY respect the person or mission or history
of our free client, we will spend lots of extra effort
for free too.
We can still charge the companies that call us for
websites done "their way" a bundle, especially if they
are not very interesting to us or if they are
difficult to please.
We REALLY respect Wayland and the other pioneers of
the EV List as well as some of the truly dedicated
converters and inventors (even if they are not
pioneers) and are happy to do a free website.
Find out for yourself.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Some of our FREE websites:
www.EV-Blue.com
www.KeyMenu.com/condo
www.DeskMenu.com
www.BikeMenu.com
www.MenuASIA.com
www.EV-Battery.com
www.KeyMenu.com
www.KeyKidFoundation.org
www.GoGoHorses.com
--- gary <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I started a simple website that fit on my free space
> but I've outgrown
> it. I'd like to get feedback from the list on my EV
> business and would
> like more space.
> Can I ask what your motives are for offering free
> space?
> Gary Krysztopik
> Z Wheelz, LLC
> San Antonio, TX 78250
> (210) 977-0756 (h)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 11:04 AM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Roland Website
>
> Roland,
> We would feel honored to provide you with a free
> website. We can put it up today.
> Gary, Ryan, Ed, Lou, Robert, Rose, Karen, Randy,
> Marcio, Jay, and staff
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Some of our 553 sites:
> www.EV-Blue.com
> www.ChopperPro.com
> www.KeyMenu.com/condo
> www.BikeMenu.com
> www.FortuneFrames.com
>
> --- Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I will have to find one of those free WEB sites.
> Everybody around here wants to charge you $240.00 to
> design a web site and a $50.00 a month charge.
> Roland
____________________________________________________________________________________
Got a little couch potato?
Check out fun summer activities for kids.
http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=summer+activities+for+kids&cs=bz
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 11:30:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: Glenn Saunders <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Warcharging
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I've been meaning to ask. Have people gone on road trips by recharging for
free by running a cable to your first-floor motel room under the door? The
management might get upset if they saw the cord. Also, one time my car battery
died (regular car here) and it was in my apartment's parking structure. I
couldn't find any outlets, but it had a lightbulb socket with one of those
ring-shaped flourescents screwed into it. So what I did was get one of those
adapters that has a socket pass-through and a110 outlet on either end. Then I
ran a long extension cord from that up through the piping over to my car to a
charger. I'm thinking that trick might work for a lot of public parking
structures. For curiosity's sake I just took a look around my office
building's parking structure and there happens to be a standard 110v outlet at
bumper level only feet away from where I normally park. Looks like only a few
of these per floor, related to a red
fire-alarm-looking box. It's got to be a pretty standard regulatory thing.
It could be a trick to enable you to get free charges at work or shopping malls
without a formal charging station. Any anecdotes about "warcharging" from the
field?
----- Original Message ----OK out of my dream world. Sigh! But you catch my
drift? The EAA could work
on this? Would really get the ball rolling would be some sort of tax
incentive? What's in it for Tom down at True Value Hardware to put in /out
120/240 volt outlets, other than good will, I mean TAX breaks? Something
that would show up in HIS bottom line.Chicken an' egg thing here, but if you
build them, or place them, people will come. ONE EV in town, so there is no
big stampede to put in public outlets.
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 11:34:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] How to help move things forward
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Sounds like a neat idea. A couple more ideas to throw into the pile: Offer
businesses free advertising if they'll allow a free charge. Have people sign
safety disclaimers so the businesses will feel better about signing up.
----- Original Message ----
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, August 8, 2007 8:53:17 PM
Subject: [EVDL] How to help move things forward
When it comes to finding a way to contribute to the adoption of electric
vehicles, I think there is lower hanging fruit to pursue before attempting
to climb a mountain as big as making advanced batteries from scratch.
In fact I just came up with something internet-related to keep me busy in
the scene until I have the opportunity to convert my car, something that can
use my skillset. Let me know how this sounds...
A few days ago I was thinking about how to make EV use more practical for
longer trips without official charging stations. I noticed that there are
old lists of people online intended to provide informal charging to others.
In the early period of a hobby, information tends to be scattered around and
disjointed like this. That's really the state of things today with EV
stuff. This mailing list is probably the closest there is to a single
central hub. But as people have said recently, it is old-school technology.
There aren't a lot of tools you can hang off of this. It's just raw
discussion.
So my idea is to form an EV community around the social networking
structure. So take Facebook for instance. Facebook has something called
the Facebook API which allows you to extend the system in different ways.
My idea is to create a network of EV owners (or just sympathetic friends and
family) on Facebook who can publish their location as an open charging
service for their other EV friends. Then you use the Google Maps API so you
can plot long trips that utilize your friends' charging services to get from
point A to point B. Because everything is database-driven, you can
carefully reserve these reservation windows and avoid contention for a
single charger or showing up when the resident is not around. To make it
more reliable, you slap on a rating system. If someone "flakes" on you,
either preventing access to the charger, or is a no-show, then you rank him
down. This is the Ebay honor system. As for privacy, all of the sensitive
information here is very carefully controlled on Facebook. There is a lot
of detailed settings at your disposal. You would opt into this stuff only
if you feel there is the proper trust-level with your potential charging
partners. Jerks would be quickly blackballed out of the system due to the
rankings. (I'm not dealing with the issue of back and forth credits or a
payment for electricity used right now. That can be worked in later.)
In addition to all that, you then wire up your navigation system (i.e.
laptop) with GPS. So you sync all your travel data back and forth. Now you
have a system that can analyze your driving habits and make realistic range
estimates. It will try to keep you from plotting the trip unless it thinks
you can't make it. For instance, if it remembers that the last time you
took street X, you had to go over a steep grade that lowered your range, it
will take that into account next time. If the batteries follow an unusual
discharging pattern, the system will be able to warn you in advance and
suggest a detour to a closer charging location or suggesting that you
double-back. Also, you would be able to publish your driving statistics.
So for those with similar cars, it might be able to collectively average the
data in order to accelerate the process of honing the range estimates over
various streets that have different conditions. You could also have a
competitive leaderboard. You could have people with the top range per
charge, or group them by the car's model. Like "highest range Super
Beetle". This is similar to what John Wayland wrote about in 'gaming' the
EV1 rental, but taken to the next level. I think a lot of this sort of
thing is what Th!nk is planning to do, but none of this is impossible to do
at the grass-roots level.
It might be nice if there were charging stations everywhere so you could
just charge at work, the movies, the mall, or various parking meters, but it
might actually be a good thing for people to have to rely on EACHOTHER a
little bit rather than infrastructure. You might start out in a simply
pragmatic charge-charge relationship with another EV owner, but then you've
GOT to "hang out" while the car charges assuming the person's home isn't
adjacent to some other area of interest. So it presents some good
opportunities to slow your life down a little bit and get to KNOW other
people, presumably other people who have common interests. It seems like
the two things go hand in hand, and would be therapeutic.
Does any of this seem appealing to you all?
-----Original Message-----
Totally Glenn. I'm in your camp here. This is why I am so frustrated that
the Lithium battery makers are so high priced right now. I checked on
wholesale (not direct) prices on components to make lithium cells and it is
miniscule compared to what we are being asked to pay. I know they have to
recoup R&D but jees! That's all we would need to make 200mile machines in
our backyard... lower Lithium cell prices.
I get so frustrated about this, I found myself putting together research
material for a small scale, JIT large format Lithium battery plant. :) Who
knows? It might be nifty to have Made In The USA on the battery label. (Yes,
I know nobody would want to finance this,, etc etc ;)
My faith is in the small makers taking more and more of market share until
the big makers are forced to compete, at which point they'll try to buy a
few up. What happens after that depends on if they still have serious
competition or not.
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------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 13:37:11 -0500
From: "Marty Hewes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor Idea
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
If I'm following this correctly, remember that most people find the need for
gear reduction between the motor and the axles to keep the motor in it's
more efficient operating RPM. Also, width is a big issue with independant
suspension, short axles means more angle in the U-joints (reliability and
efficiency issues) or restricted suspension travel.
On another tangent, has anybody tried driving a hydraulic pump with the
motor and putting hydraulic motors at the wheels? You could even switch the
hydraulic motors from series to parallel to get two gear ratios, but I
suppose in series they would want to turn the same speed.
Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 11:35 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor Idea
> Wouldn't it just be easier to make taperlock adapters for the axle
> shafts? The only reason not to go this way I would believe would be
> maybe trying to cut down on the width? I think some type of clutch
> arrangement similar to a detroit locker would be needed on one side
> though so that the axle would turn corners easily. Maybe just use a
> differential pumpkin?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Jeff Major
> Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 12:32
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor Idea
>
>
> Hi Jim,
>
> Yea, some of that steel in there by the shaft is used by the magnetics.
> Talking about the inner core of the armature. In fact, sometimes the
> shaft steel itself is in the magnetic circuit. Mostly in 2 pole motors,
> not so much in the 4 pole variety. The steel in the armature core
> between the shaft and the slots was called "depth below slots" back in
> my days of magnetism. It is kind of the flip side of the steel in the
> frame between the poles. You need it.
>
> There are motors with big old holes all the way thru the center. Most
> of these will have pretty high pole counts. 8, 12 or 16 poles. With
> more pole pairs, you need less back iron and depth below slots. But you
> have some adverse affects, ie higher frequency.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jeff M
>
>
>
> --- Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>
>> --- Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> > What if the typical 9" was available with a hollow shaft large
>> > enough to pass a decent size axle shaft through. A little spline on
>> > the inside, fact gear, or taper cups and you could take two motors
>> > and a shaft with a yoke on one end and a threaded nut on the other
>> > and assemble it and quiet easily un asemble it.
>>
>> Hey Jeff
>>
>> The problem is that the bore holes used in these motors is just 1
>> 3/16th for the 8" and 1 3/8th" for the 9's (from memory). Boring out
>> a hole through the shaft would leave very little material left to keep
>
>> the armature where it's supposed to be (centered inside).
>>
>> I would suspect that increasing the shafts diameter to lets say a
>> couple, three inches would change the properties of the armatures as
>> the laminations would loose a lot of their mass. I'd like to hear
>> from Lee or Jeff as to if or by how much this might effect the
>> armature if one were to increase the lamination hole size while adding
>
>> nothing to the diameter or length.
>>
>> Anyway that's my take on it (for now) lol.
>>
>> Cya
>> Jim Husted
>> Hi-Torque Electric
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ____________
> Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you
> all the tools to get online.
> http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 14:47:37 -0400
From: "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor Idea
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
It has been brought up before but most would answer back that you lose
a lot of efficiency by driving through hydraulic pumps and motors. It
would really help though in situations where you wanted to make things
that were hybrid and could be driven by either an engine or a electric
motor.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Marty Hewes
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 14:37
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor Idea
If I'm following this correctly, remember that most people find the need
for gear reduction between the motor and the axles to keep the motor in
it's more efficient operating RPM. Also, width is a big issue with
independant suspension, short axles means more angle in the U-joints
(reliability and efficiency issues) or restricted suspension travel.
On another tangent, has anybody tried driving a hydraulic pump with the
motor and putting hydraulic motors at the wheels? You could even switch
the hydraulic motors from series to parallel to get two gear ratios, but
I suppose in series they would want to turn the same speed.
Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 11:35 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor Idea
> Wouldn't it just be easier to make taperlock adapters for the axle
> shafts? The only reason not to go this way I would believe would be
> maybe trying to cut down on the width? I think some type of clutch
> arrangement similar to a detroit locker would be needed on one side
> though so that the axle would turn corners easily. Maybe just use a
> differential pumpkin?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Jeff Major
> Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 12:32
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor Idea
>
>
> Hi Jim,
>
> Yea, some of that steel in there by the shaft is used by the
magnetics.
> Talking about the inner core of the armature. In fact, sometimes the
> shaft steel itself is in the magnetic circuit. Mostly in 2 pole
motors,
> not so much in the 4 pole variety. The steel in the armature core
> between the shaft and the slots was called "depth below slots" back in
> my days of magnetism. It is kind of the flip side of the steel in the
> frame between the poles. You need it.
>
> There are motors with big old holes all the way thru the center. Most
> of these will have pretty high pole counts. 8, 12 or 16 poles. With
> more pole pairs, you need less back iron and depth below slots. But
you
> have some adverse affects, ie higher frequency.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jeff M
>
>
>
> --- Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>
>> --- Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> > What if the typical 9" was available with a hollow shaft large
>> > enough to pass a decent size axle shaft through. A little spline on
>> > the inside, fact gear, or taper cups and you could take two motors
>> > and a shaft with a yoke on one end and a threaded nut on the other
>> > and assemble it and quiet easily un asemble it.
>>
>> Hey Jeff
>>
>> The problem is that the bore holes used in these motors is just 1
>> 3/16th for the 8" and 1 3/8th" for the 9's (from memory). Boring out
>> a hole through the shaft would leave very little material left to
keep
>
>> the armature where it's supposed to be (centered inside).
>>
>> I would suspect that increasing the shafts diameter to lets say a
>> couple, three inches would change the properties of the armatures as
>> the laminations would loose a lot of their mass. I'd like to hear
>> from Lee or Jeff as to if or by how much this might effect the
>> armature if one were to increase the lamination hole size while
adding
>
>> nothing to the diameter or length.
>>
>> Anyway that's my take on it (for now) lol.
>>
>> Cya
>> Jim Husted
>> Hi-Torque Electric
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
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------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 14:51:27 -0400
From: Greg Owen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Basic drivetrain questions, was Re: Looking for a
Conversion Kit for a 1929 Ford.
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Jack Murray wrote:
> Greg, thanks for pointing out my efforts.
> The Comet CVT does change the gearing as the RPM changes, it seems to
> me this does just what you want, although this is just unmeasured
> observation, the motor tends to stay at about the same RPM and the
> gearing changes as the torque and vehicle speed changes.
I had been thinking that ideally one would have more control - for
example, at highway speeds, most of the time you want the gearing set
for efficiency. If you jam on the acceleration, though, that means you
need torque (I don't know where you live, but here changing lanes is a
contact sport). So a system where the CVT and the motor were controlled
separately, and where acceleration depended on increased motor output
and possibly even decreased gearing, yet when speed stabilized the CVT
and motor would rebalance for efficiency.
I'm a computer scientist. I have trouble with working solutions like
yours when the option of screwing up a more complex one exists ;>.
Having said that, I'm keeping your original post in my folder for
reference because it does sound darn good.
> The "soft start" of the belt drive is useful, and in fact, I've been
> thinking this may make a contactor controller work very well in
> conjunction with this CVT. This would allow building a very
> inexpensive lightweight EV.
Does that imply that the normal drawback to a contactor controller is
abrupt start?
I was also looking at minibike CVTs, like this:
http://www.scooterparts4less.com/web_gas/x2_Pocketbike_gearbox.htm
I'm wondering how that'd work for a <1500lb vehicle.
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 12:51:42 -0600
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Better Emergency Brake
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hello Mark,
That is why I have drum brakes on the rear and disc on the front. The
problem with a EV with a manual transmission, there is no compression you
have with a engine where you can have the transmission in 1st or reversed
which may hold the vehicle on a small slope and a 2nd back up using a
emergency brake.
With a EV, you have only one parking brake option, so when I am on a steeper
sloped, I put out a set of wheel chocks which I made out of a piece of 4 by
4 inch wood that is cut 4 inches long that the face is cut at a 45 degree
angle. Attach one of those heavy 14 grit adhesive back sand paper that is
use for floor sanding.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 11:52 AM
Subject: [EVDL] Better Emergency Brake
> Hi,
>
> With the usual problemn of an EV gaining weight and still wanting braking
> safety, I'm curious if there is a good way to get better emergency
> braking.
> It seams like on a rear disc brake, the emergency brake handle just slows
> the vehicle down. This is what happens on my E-Porsche and our diesel
> Beetle with rear disc brakes. I remember with my Electro-Metro which had
> *drum* rear brakes, I could lock up the rear wheels with the emergency
> brake
> handle.
>
> Is there a way to improve emergency braking if the main brakes fail? Or
> is
> that just an inherent problem with rear disc brakes?
>
> have a renewable energy day,
> Mark
>
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End of EV Digest, Vol 1, Issue 24
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