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Today's Topics:
1. Re: well to wheels (Kaido Kert)
2. The price to rebuilt are TOO HIGH! (Tommey Reed)
([EMAIL PROTECTED])
3. VW EV truck problems (Michael Mohlere)
4. Re: To Blow or not to Blow (Roland Wiench)
5. UltraCapacitors ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
6. Re: Chain drive setup ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
7. Re: VW EV truck problems (Roland Wiench)
8. Re: UltraCapacitors (Roland Wiench)
9. EAA of NE Meeting at O'Connor's. WAS motor shipped (Bob Rice)
10. Re: Motor shipped (Mark Grasser)
11. Re: article: Mitsubishi i MiEV Sport - brutally
fastelectricsports car prototype (David Dymaxion)
12. Re: UltraCapacitors (Mark Eidson)
13. Re: Vectrix braking flaw? (Martin Klingensmith)
14. Re: ABS Max Input Voltage on Z1K-HV, DC-DC converters
(Martin Klingensmith)
15. Nice pictures from Pomona (Bill Dube)
16. Re: Thunder Sky Batteries (Lee Hart)
17. Re: Lee's choice was What batteries to try next? (Lee Hart)
18. Re: EV Charger Isolation (Lee Hart)
19. Re: Concorde Sun-Xtender batteries for EVs (Lee Hart)
20. Re: UltraCapacitors (Dan Frederiksen)
21. I got Lucky at Lunch (Mark Hanson)
22. Re: I got Lucky at Lunch (keith vansickle)
23. Re: UltraCapacitors (Gilbert, Brian D (GE Infra, Energy))
24. Re: UltraCapacitors (Jeff Major)
25. Re: Calling all tire experts! ((-Phil-))
26. Re: I got Lucky at Lunch (David Dymaxion)
27. Re: VW EV truck problems ((-Phil-))
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:43:16 +0200
From: "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] well to wheels
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
On Nov 15, 2007 5:44 AM, David Nelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Tesla Motors has a great graph showing several different vehicles and
> it includes references to the data at the bottom of the graph.
>
> http://www.teslamotors.com/efficiency/well_to_wheel.php
>
Michelin Challenge Bibendum site used to have very good comparative
whitepapers between different types of propulsion used as well,
including well to wheel efficiency analysis.
The best i could find after a minute of looking seemed to be from 2006
Paris here
http://www.challengebibendum.com/challengeBib/AfficheServlet?Rubrique=20070904183934&Langue=EN
-kert
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 10:05:18 -0500
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [EVDL] The price to rebuilt are TOO HIGH! (Tommey Reed)
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I have located the wire to rebuild any AC/DC motors!
I live in Florida and people in my area are looking for a near by repair shop
to save money on shipping cost.
The price just in shipping along is high not including the price to rebuild the
motor.
A am just looking to help people in my area its not all about the money, but i
do make a small profit.
I have a Lathe, Mill, CNC, Press, drill , welder and jigs for up to 11in Dc
motors.
Its not that its easy to rebuild, but it does take time working on the armature
and commutators.
I am not look for your business, I just was looking for a shorter distance to
get parts.
Parts are going up in price for many reason like gas prices and the economy, I
am just trying to help with the EV world.........
________________________________________________________________________
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spam and email virus protection.
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 09:17:05 -0600
From: "Michael Mohlere" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] VW EV truck problems
To: EVDL <EV@lists.sjsu.edu>, "EV group, MAEAA"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Please see sig for details of my truck. I just had the controller
refurbished (not more than a month or two ago).
The VW (see sig) cut out for about 30 seconds while I was tooling down the
road at about 45 mph about a week ago - I almost
pulled off to the side of the road, and it kicked back in and behaved
normally, until...
yesterday, it cut out again for about 10 seconds, then back to normal.
today (it was a very cold morning here - frost on the ground, but I keep the
VW in the garage) it pulled to the end of the driveway, then cut out, cut
back in after about 30 seconds, then cut out again.
I fired up the gas truck (ugh) and went to work.
When I returned (footnot: the sun was out and it was much warmer), I pulled
the truck into the garage - no problem.
Summary - intermittent problem where truck cuts out (completely).
Accessories work fine.
Any thoughts on how to go about debugging this would be greatly
appreciated. I was using the truck as my primary source of
transportation. Can't do that until I can get a handle on the current
problem.
Thanks,
--
Michael Mohlere
My EV: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/296.html
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 08:29:24 -0700
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] To Blow or not to Blow
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hello Mark,
I am running Dayton 12 volt blowers now for 30 years. Motor unit is
completely seal and never had apart yet. Have one blower on the main motor
and one on the motor controller housing. They have a standard 6 inch
carburetor filter housings on the air input.
I run these all the time even if its 35 below because it pressurize the
units to prevent rain, snow, dust and condensation from forming inside these
units. My motor has vent screens on the rear bottom of the motor and the
150 CFM blowers have prevent snow from coming in even if I am going through
a foot of snow.
I do change the brushes around in my main motor, which is a GE 11.5 inch
with communtator poles. The rear brushes will wear 1/4 inch shorter then
the front brushes in 10 years which is cause by the shunting effect of the
rear brushes being closer to the rotor windings.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 6:32 AM
Subject: [EVDL] To Blow or not to Blow
Hi,
I have a MTC4001 Prestolite with a minimal vane fan (similar to ADC but
smaller). I noticed (since my vacuum cleaner blower motor stopped working)
that the "engine temp" stays in the 160-180F range while driving an hour to
work. Of course it's wintertime with ambient in the 40-55 range but I
noticed it ran a bit cooler with the hose off. So I'm wondering if I need
the blower and can run without the commutator blower shroud on like I ran
with my 8" ADC. This is on my 2820- lb E-Porsche at 96V.
An interesting note; when I took the blower motor apart (it is connected
straight across the motor leads so it whirrs with the motor RPM's) one brush
was totally disintegrated and the other looked brand new. On my belt sander
I made another brush from a larger one and put it in. I was curious what
happened so i put it on my gonculator DC power supply and set it for 96V. I
tried different snubbers across the comm, .01 uf, 140V MOV's and .1uf - 10
ohm. The .01uf reduced some arcing on one side but then I *reversed*
polarity feeding the motor and the sparking moved to the other side for a
minute, then I put the polarity back to original and there was *no* arcing
either way at 96V.
Weird, maybe I was seating in the brushes somehow, does the negatice or
positive brush wear faster? Should motor polarity be occasionally reversed
like when rotating tires? Inquiring minds would like to know :-)
I think I'll put my 120F snap disc thermostat back on the motor case to
cycle the blower anyway since it's brushes seam to wear out every 10k miles
since June. I may put a one way intake flap on to allow better air flow
when the blower isn't running just the internal vane fan sucking.
Now to the junk yard for lunch to weld a VW mini-spare together, jig saw out
a 8" diameter disc from a 4x130mm VW rim and weld it over a 7" overlapped
cut out in a Saturn/Escort or Honda Civic mini-spare. I may also 5-bolt
with number 5 hardenned 3/8" bolts in case my MIG weld comes loose. Doesn't
everyone go to the junk yard for lunch :-)?
Have a cool day,
Mark in Roanoke (see you at EVS-23)
_________________________________________________________________
Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Caf?. Stop by
today.
http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_OctWLtagline
_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 10:46:03 -0500
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [EVDL] UltraCapacitors
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
You may have seen this one already -
http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/nov07/5636
Here it is again -
Best Regards -
Ed
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 08:04:05 -0800
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Chain drive setup
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes;
format=flowed
Aaron,
If you google Infiniti G20 Chain Drive you will find out that they
are speaking of what they use for driving the cam of the engine and
not the transmission to engine coupling. Sorry but you need to be
clear on things like that. I find that many folks read into what
someone says without being clear as to what they mean by what they say.
It is a chain driven cam and not a belt driven cam.
Pete
On Nov 16, 2007, at 3:58 AM, Aaron Quinto wrote:
> My neighbor worked on it at one point and said that it used a chain
> drive
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 09:05:06 -0700
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] VW EV truck problems
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
One thing that may happen is that the contact area between components in
extreme temperature changes, will cause them to loosen up when cold and
tighten when hot.
When we were install copper/brass buss bar connections together in a 75
degree shop which we torque these connection by applying CO2 to these
connections while torque them to 50 ft lbs if they are to be install
outside.
If these units were only torque at 50 ft lbs at a ambient temperature of 75
degrees and went through a 110 degree temperature difference, these
connections would loosen up which increases the resistance.
This also happens with electrical, air condition and water lines in a
vehicle. I install a new A/C unit in my EV using Aero Quip fittings. The
A/C shop tech loosen up some of the lines to service this unit and tighten
up the lines in a shop temperature of 75 degrees.
The first time, it got to 35 below, I lost all the A/C coolent. So the next
time, while my EV was setting outside in temperature drops of 10 degrees, I
would go out and re-tighten all the connections at every 10 degrees drop
even down to -35 below.
The most common connection in the electrical side, is the accessory battery
connections and some grounding connections in a vehicle that use the sheet
metal as a ground conductor will greatly increase in resistance. I fix that
by running a large ground buss system counter pose around the EV on steel
bolt coupler stand offs and tap off each stand off connection with a copper
wire take off.
Another trouble area, is plug connections that will increase in resistance.
Try to recycle these plugs by plugging in and unplugging several times to
see what happens.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Mohlere" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVDL" <EV@lists.sjsu.edu>; "EV group, MAEAA" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 8:17 AM
Subject: [EVDL] VW EV truck problems
> Please see sig for details of my truck. I just had the controller
> refurbished (not more than a month or two ago).
>
> The VW (see sig) cut out for about 30 seconds while I was tooling down the
> road at about 45 mph about a week ago - I almost
> pulled off to the side of the road, and it kicked back in and behaved
> normally, until...
>
> yesterday, it cut out again for about 10 seconds, then back to normal.
>
> today (it was a very cold morning here - frost on the ground, but I keep
> the
> VW in the garage) it pulled to the end of the driveway, then cut out, cut
> back in after about 30 seconds, then cut out again.
>
> I fired up the gas truck (ugh) and went to work.
>
> When I returned (footnot: the sun was out and it was much warmer), I
> pulled
> the truck into the garage - no problem.
>
> Summary - intermittent problem where truck cuts out (completely).
> Accessories work fine.
>
> Any thoughts on how to go about debugging this would be greatly
> appreciated. I was using the truck as my primary source of
> transportation. Can't do that until I can get a handle on the current
> problem.
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> Michael Mohlere
> My EV: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/296.html
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 09:22:17 -0700
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] UltraCapacitors
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hello ED,
I brought up the subject of SuperCapacitors, the first time I came on this
list which could run a vehicle for a short distance that can be use for
utility vehicles and buses that could run for about 10 to 15 miles.
The knee jerk reaction was that ultra capacitors would discharge all there
energy in 15 seconds. I said these are super capacitors and have
electrolytes like a battery but can be recharge in 15 minutes.
So I contacted these companies, to see what size and how many I need to run
my EV which I only use for very short trips which is not more than 5 miles a
day. For my vehicles that weighs 7000 lbs with batteries, would would weigh
5500 lbs with super capacitors and have a range of 15 miles would cost about
$40,000.00 which would be the last set of energy packs you will need.
I would not have to have a 300 amp charging station to charge them in 15
minutes, but could use the standard PFC chargers and Zillas for this system.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 8:46 AM
Subject: [EVDL] UltraCapacitors
> You may have seen this one already -
>
> http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/nov07/5636
>
> Here it is again -
>
> Best Regards -
> Ed
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 11:29:48 -0500
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] EAA of NE Meeting at O'Connor's. WAS motor shipped
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Grasser" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Jim Husted'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 4:29 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor shipped
> Jim,
> It's beautiful! I think I will ask to use it as the centerpiece on the
> Christmas party table with the NEEAA!! Bob will the tables at O'Connor's
> bear the weight of my new Jim Husted motor?
>
Hi Mark, an' EVerybody;
Well, bring it along! A Jim Husted done motor is a gorgious work of art!
Think of what he could do with a GG-1(google GG-1) motor(all 12!) or drive
motor for Queen Eliz?? One of the largest "Motorboats" on the sea! My Warp
9" in my family room pales by comparison<g>! Doesn't EVerybody have a new
motor in THEIR family room?We'll figure out something for O'Connors. I just
got things set up at O'Connors for our traditional Christmas Dinner EAA
meeting. A Worcester tradition, lingering on from the Tony Aszrizzi daze,
when NE EAA used to meet at Tony's. So, this is an early warning to youse NE
EAA guyz. Free up Dec 8 Sat, at 2pm,Dump the kids, pack Grandma off to the
Casinos! for good food, company, etc. Only kidding! bring the family, kids
welcome as THEY are WHY we do alot of this EV stuff. Believe me, having
Grandkids puts a new spin on saving, or TRYING to save what's left of our
sinking USA!? Youse Boston guyz can't use the "It's too far" excuse<g>!
Worst-er is just down the road for you guys! Us Corrupticut guyz are
planning our Prius Pools, early on. EV's? Hmmm? Maybe O'Connors could supply
120/240 for cars? Stench chord out kitchen window? Let me know, I'll try to
ask them?
If ya never been to O'Connors' in Worcester, it is a fun place
Irish(Duh!) motif. It makes ya smile just going in the place! Good food,
drink, company. No I don't work there, just had fun there the last several
years.They have a nice website , google the hell out of it. History, driving
map, all that. When I'm happy with a biz or service I like to mention it,to
the choir, here.
Seeya in Dec, Christ!..... ALMOST here!
Bob
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 11:28:17 -0500
From: "Mark Grasser" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Motor shipped
To: "'Jim Husted'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Jim,
Ok so throw me out to pasture with the rest of them.
First something list related. I have a 0-45 volt 25 amp supply. Will this
run the motor? Should I run it in series-paralel or just in series? What
RPMs should I expect at what voltage?
NOW for the timing. It's like this Jim. I just got fired or quit, still not
sure what really happened but before I can get the bike done I have to start
up the new marine products company, finish the CNC machine I am building (so
I can machine the bike parts) and then design and build the bike. I figure a
2 year completion date. At the daily rate that will be about $3650.00. WOW
so I might be able to come in under Jay's price if I work hard. In the mean
time I will simply run it sitting on the bench when my friends come to look
at it. :-)
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Husted [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 8:17 PM
To: Mark Grasser; ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: Motor shipped
--- Mark Grasser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Jim,
> It's beautiful! I think I will ask to use it as the
> centerpiece on the
> Christmas party table with the NEEAA!! Bob will the
> tables at O'Connor's
> bear the weight of my new Jim Husted motor?
Hey Mark
I take it you got her today huh? They look better in
person than in pics but probably EVen better once in
your greedy little hands I'm guessing 8^o
Now, Christmas is just around the corner but I better
not see you go the Jay Donnaway / Mike Willmon way AKA
hurry up and get me my motor so I can sit on it for
EVer, LMAO! I actually have nightmares where I'm
watching Mike sitting in the dark petting his motors
while calling them "hisss preciousss" and I'm forced
to run over and pitch them into the abyss, LMAO.
I'm currently thinking that I might start building
them for free but then charging 5 dollars per day it's
not installed 8^o Jays bill would total $3650+ and
still counting... and Mike's is already at more than I
got him for, hehe 8^P
Anyway, I'll try and get some pics up for viewing this
weekend. As a general FYI, Marks motor was an 8
brushed ADC 6.7" pump motor that came with the field
coils wired with terminal connections for either
series or series / parallel. I added holes for a 5
and 10 degree brush advancement setting option so
he'll have the ability to tune it a tad. It's really
a nice motor and should be an ideal MC motor so I'll
have to keep an eye out for more.
Anyway, glad you like it, let me know if you decide to
actually install it still 8^P
Cya
Jim
Hi-Torque Electric
____________________________________________________________________________
________
Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you
with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/sports;_ylt=At9_qDKvtAbMuh1G1SQtBI7ntAcJ
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 08:31:05 -0800 (PST)
From: David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] article: Mitsubishi i MiEV Sport - brutally
fastelectricsports car prototype
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Just a wild thought, maybe this is a pure marketing ploy by Mitsubishi? Maybe
enough people believe it would work or at least help, they would consider it a
"feature."
----- Original Message ----
From: Andrew Kane <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 12:34:25 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] article: Mitsubishi i MiEV Sport - brutally
fastelectricsports car prototype
My wild guess would be that the solar panel and little wind
turbines are intended to keep the accessory battery charged while the
car is sitting, so that it isn't slain by small parasitic loads. As to
why they bother, I dunno. It is a prototype after all.
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you
with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/sports;_ylt=At9_qDKvtAbMuh1G1SQtBI7ntAcJ
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 09:34:59 -0700
From: "Mark Eidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] UltraCapacitors
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
The problem with caps is that the voltage drops much more quickly with
discharge and at some point the voltage will be too low to be useful.
To get most of the charge out of the caps one would need a buck-boost
type power stage. me
On 11/16/07, Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello ED,
>
> I brought up the subject of SuperCapacitors, the first time I came on this
> list which could run a vehicle for a short distance that can be use for
> utility vehicles and buses that could run for about 10 to 15 miles.
>
> The knee jerk reaction was that ultra capacitors would discharge all there
> energy in 15 seconds. I said these are super capacitors and have
> electrolytes like a battery but can be recharge in 15 minutes.
>
> So I contacted these companies, to see what size and how many I need to run
> my EV which I only use for very short trips which is not more than 5 miles a
> day. For my vehicles that weighs 7000 lbs with batteries, would would weigh
> 5500 lbs with super capacitors and have a range of 15 miles would cost about
> $40,000.00 which would be the last set of energy packs you will need.
>
> I would not have to have a 300 amp charging station to charge them in 15
> minutes, but could use the standard PFC chargers and Zillas for this system.
>
> Roland
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 8:46 AM
> Subject: [EVDL] UltraCapacitors
>
>
> > You may have seen this one already -
> >
> > http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/nov07/5636
> >
> > Here it is again -
> >
> > Best Regards -
> > Ed
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 11:55:57 -0500
From: Martin Klingensmith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Vectrix braking flaw?
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
I think you're getting a bit jumpy for no reason. You posted what
happened, many people said "that's too bad, I'm glad you're ok" ... just
because most don't agree that it's a good idea to change the braking
arrangement doesn't mean that you can't do whatever you like. Perhaps if
you really think there's something wrong with the Vectrix you could take
it up with Vectrix?
-
Martin K
fortywattblub wrote:
> Do you own a Vectrix?
>
> It would be much, much easier to train myself to use the left-hand brake for
> the front wheel then to go through a thought process in a split-second
> emergency. My immediate solution is to simply stop using the regen and stick
> with the hand brakes for slowing.
>
>
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 12:08:38 -0500
From: Martin Klingensmith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] ABS Max Input Voltage on Z1K-HV, DC-DC converters
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
IIRC Otmar uses a very high current gate drive circuit requiring a real
bias supply.
The IR21xx can't supply enough current, though I have been wondering in
my head if you could add an external current boosting MOSFET.
I think the other thing is that the zilla (IIRC, again) can go to 100%
duty cycle. A charge pump chip can't reliably do that.
You should join the evtech list if you'd like to talk electronics. It's
considered the more appropriate place for this.
http://evtech.org/
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
MK
Mark Hanson wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I read Otmar's post on the TI DC-DC converters dying on high side gate drive.
> We have the same problem on our magnetic bearing power electronics mosfet
> control circuitry. The 12V 1-2W TI dc-dc converters a few years ago were
> made in Ireland with good quality control, now they are made in China with
> not so good quality. A TI apps engineer said the 500V parts should really
> only be used for telcom 48V circuits since the internal torroid is now
> overlapped and not properly isolated. (crunched a few apart to verify.) We
> then switched to 3KV Traco parts which don't fail (quite as often).
>
> My final design gets rid of the high side drivers and uses the 500V IR2110,
> (now IR2113) with an upper bootstrap cap (10uf ceramic) thus eliminating
> *any* crappy mini dc-dc converters. We run a 300V buss typical. The dirty
> little secret of these little guys is in a switching application they must be
> *derated* from their static HV claims since the high switching dv/dt breaks
> down the band-gap effectively reducing the operating voltage to a fraction of
> the specification. Solution: get rid of high side dc-dc converters in fet
> switchers.
>
> have a renewable (dc-dc converter free) day,
> Mark
> _________________________________________________________________
> Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks & Treats for You!
> http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 15
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 10:26:01 -0700
From: Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] Nice pictures from Pomona
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
The folks at HotRodHotLineBIKES were on hand for the KillaCycle
record at Pomona and took some fantastic photos and wrote up a great
article. See it at:
http://www.hotrodhotlinebikes.com/builder/2007/07billdubekillacycle/
Bill Dube'
------------------------------
Message: 16
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 08:30:08 -0600
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Thunder Sky Batteries
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Peter Oliver wrote:
> Going to China to test the cells is NOT out of the question. Is
> there a documented methodology that would outline a reliable test
> procedure?
>
> What device would provide a test that would be feasible to perform in
> a reasonable time frame?
Yes, the procedures for testing a cell or battery are pretty well
defined. The equipment is fairly simple and portable (i.e. you could
take it with you. I would want to measure internal resistance, and
amphour capacity.
Internal resistance is a fairly fast test. Basically, the tester
alternately applies two load currents; one low and one high. It measures
the voltage difference between them, and calculates the internal
resistance as R = (V1-V2) / I1-I2). The nominal value should be on their
data sheet. This test should take less than 1 minute per cell.
Amphour capacity is a much slower test, as you need time to completely
discharge the cell or battery (and time to recharge it if it wasn't
fully charged to begin with). Pick a discharge current that is close to
the average current in your application, and also has a value documented
on their data sheet.
When you need to test 100's of cells, you'll either need a piece of
automated equipment that can test many cells simultaneously, or a simple
enough piece of equipment so you can duplicate it many times. A
discharge tester is not all that complicated; basically a big load
resistor, a relay that switches it off when the cell voltage falls to
some limit, and a clock to record how long it took. The complexity comes
from having to repeat it many times, and how automated you want it to be.
When testing takes a long time, a QC inspector will normally spot-test a
random sample of the product. You might pull 10% of the cells at random,
and do a thorough test of them; if they all pass, you can be reasonably
confident that most of the rest of them are also good. But if you find
any bad ones, you'll have to increase the number that you test accordingly.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
------------------------------
Message: 17
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 09:09:20 -0600
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Lee's choice was What batteries to try next?
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Brian Staffanson wrote:
> Lee,
>
> This is an old thread, but wondered what you decided to do? What
> batteries, how many, voltages, etc? After all the advice, what
> happened?
I sorted through the ones I had left, and used 6 of the original 12
(that are now 10 years old!) that have at least half their original
capacity, plus a motley collection of other batteries to bring it back
up to 144v. I decided to limp along on the old pack and save my money
for the time being so I can put more into the Sunrise project.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
------------------------------
Message: 18
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 09:27:39 -0600
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Charger Isolation
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Dave Delman wrote:
> Are all/most commercial EV Battery Chargers isolated? If so do the
> use a big isolation transformer or is there another method?
Some are isolated (Lester, Bycan, Zivan, etc.) and some are not (K&W,
PFC, Russco, etc.) You have to read the specs to see.
If it is isolated, there is always a transformer. It may be a big heavy
60 Hz transformer, or a smaller high-frequency switchmode transformer.
There are other ways to achieve isolation, but most are not used much
any more. For example, antique chargers used a motor-generator set.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
------------------------------
Message: 19
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 09:33:13 -0600
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Concorde Sun-Xtender batteries for EVs
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Ian Hooper wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Just a quick query to see if anyone is familiar with the use of
> Concorde Sun-Xtender AGMs in EVs?
>
> http://www.solar4power.com/solar-power-concorde.html
>
> e.g are they suitable, and/or are there much better options?
They look similar to their Chairman line, which is what I have in my EV.
I found the Chairmans to be adequate, with performance and life falling
somewhere between floodeds and high performance AGMs. The main concern
I'd have is with their price. The 12100 size I'm using cost over $200 each.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
------------------------------
Message: 20
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:42:49 +0100
From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] UltraCapacitors
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Interesting but really sloppy that they compare capacity with an
unspecified batterytechnology!
25% of a battery. what battery??
25% of lead and it's useless, 50% of the absolutely best lithiums and it
could be quite interesting.
Dan
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> You may have seen this one already -
>
> http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/nov07/5636
>
> Here it is again -
>
> Best Regards -
> Ed
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 21
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 13:41:06 -0500
From: Mark Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [EVDL] I got Lucky at Lunch
To: <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi,
I got lucky at lunch, went over to Shenandoah junk yard (540) 343-7908 that had
everything neatly catagorized. In the old bug rim pile by rim width, the guy
picked out a 4" wide rim 4x130mm to match my E-Porsche 914 and a 15" minispare
that was also 4" wide rim. Now instead of cutting & welding the rim all I have
to do is sand & rustoleum the old rim, grease the tire bead and get the mini
spare tire mounted on the old beetle rim and voila I have a VW mini spare for
my E-Porsche!
All the guys at the junk yard thought the E-Porsche was cool.
Thanks Keith for your help too.
Have a min-spare (and EVS-23) day,
Mark
_________________________________________________________________
Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Caf?. Stop by
today.
http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_OctWLtagline
------------------------------
Message: 22
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 11:12:25 -0800 (PST)
From: keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] I got Lucky at Lunch
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> All the guys at the junk yard thought the E-Porsche
> was cool.
>
> People all think our electrics are cool--wish i
could get more of them to go the $10,000 it takes to
make conversions...
BTW are you going to EVS-23?
maybe we can meet at victors booth?
are you going to the LA auto show this week?
>
> Have a min-spare (and EVS-23) day,
> Mark
>
_________________________________________________________________
> Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the
> Messenger Caf?. Stop by today.
>
http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_OctWLtagline
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you
with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/sports;_ylt=At9_qDKvtAbMuh1G1SQtBI7ntAcJ
------------------------------
Message: 23
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 13:32:06 -0500
From: "Gilbert, Brian D (GE Infra, Energy)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] UltraCapacitors
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi Roland,
What ultracapacitors were you looking at? A couple months ago I did a
comparison of Maxwell ultracaps (bcap3000) and the A123 batteries. The
Maxwells were 5.52 wh/kg and the A123s were 80-110 wh/kg depending on
discharge. I got the idea that at this point in time (with A123
batteries at least sort of available from Dewalt battery packs) that
ultracapacitors were not worth it. Are there ultracaps out there
significantly better than the Maxwells?
Thanks,
Brian
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Roland Wiench
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 8:22 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] UltraCapacitors
Hello ED,
I brought up the subject of SuperCapacitors, the first time I came on
this list which could run a vehicle for a short distance that can be use
for utility vehicles and buses that could run for about 10 to 15 miles.
The knee jerk reaction was that ultra capacitors would discharge all
there energy in 15 seconds. I said these are super capacitors and have
electrolytes like a battery but can be recharge in 15 minutes.
So I contacted these companies, to see what size and how many I need to
run my EV which I only use for very short trips which is not more than 5
miles a day. For my vehicles that weighs 7000 lbs with batteries, would
would weigh 5500 lbs with super capacitors and have a range of 15 miles
would cost about $40,000.00 which would be the last set of energy packs
you will need.
I would not have to have a 300 amp charging station to charge them in 15
minutes, but could use the standard PFC chargers and Zillas for this
system.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 8:46 AM
Subject: [EVDL] UltraCapacitors
> You may have seen this one already -
>
> http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/nov07/5636
>
> Here it is again -
>
> Best Regards -
> Ed
>
------------------------------
Message: 24
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 11:51:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] UltraCapacitors
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Hi Brian,
Maxwell are among the best Ultracaps available today.
The paper that started this thread concerned the next
generation ultracap, using nanotube carbon, which
should increase the energy density 10 fold. Using
your numbers, that might explain the 50 percent vs
battery comparison mentioned.
Present technology ultracaps can compete with
batteries where you have a power application, instead
of an energy situation. I had a discussion on this
list with Bill Dube about 6 months ago on the subject.
If you can find that, you might find it interesting.
Ultracaps have worked very well in a parallel hybrid,
where the charge and discharge durations last from 7
to 20 seconds with power levels exceeding 150 kW. The
efficiency, temperature independence and cycle life
(1,000,000 plus) favor caps over batteries.
Regards,
Jeff M
--- "Gilbert, Brian D (GE Infra, Energy)"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Roland,
>
> What ultracapacitors were you looking at? A couple
> months ago I did a
> comparison of Maxwell ultracaps (bcap3000) and the
> A123 batteries. The
> Maxwells were 5.52 wh/kg and the A123s were 80-110
> wh/kg depending on
> discharge. I got the idea that at this point in
> time (with A123
> batteries at least sort of available from Dewalt
> battery packs) that
> ultracapacitors were not worth it. Are there
> ultracaps out there
> significantly better than the Maxwells?
>
> Thanks,
> Brian
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better pen pal.
Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how.
http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
Message: 25
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 11:51:15 -0800
From: "(-Phil-)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Calling all tire experts!
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Yes, 2 of the tires on my Electric G-Van are original (from 1998!) and have
cracks all over the sidewall. So far they are ok, but they are 16.5 truck
tires with thick sidewalls, so I'm not so worried. I'm going to exchange
them both to the back, with the newer ones in front so that if I do have a
blowout, it won't be too hard to handle.
Seems like this is a common problem on tires that don't see a lot of miles
in a rather small time. (aka EV miles) I'd love to hear some other opinions
on this!
-Phil
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 1:09 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Calling all tire experts!
>I have seen Ecos in this country but I think you will be happier switching
> to a 14 inch rim. Find out your bolt pattern & go to a set of Bridgestone
> B
> 381's designed for an Insight. They should make you very happy. FYI I
> drove my Electravan 750 with the orginal tires(25 years old) So you could
> probably wait. As far as I know there are no good 13 inch tires available
> in this country. 14" are now standard. Lawrence Rhodes..
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 12:58:21 -0800
> From: Mark Dutko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: [EVDL] Calling all tire experts!
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
> I need new tires for my think as they only have 1300 miles but they
> are very aged and not safe, I can't find the original continental in
> the US 155 70 13 ECO, and it's too much from Europe. I can get some
> exact size tires if I wait six weeks but I think the tires need to go
> now. The question is do I buy a set of cheap tires for now and get
> better ones I can wait for or will one of the options below be close
> enough to the original in efficiency? The stock tire was 44 psi and
> these are the the best options I can find in the US.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mark
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
Message: 26
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 11:52:00 -0800 (PST)
From: David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] I got Lucky at Lunch
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I assume you don't mean petroleum based "grease" for "great the tire bead" --
you don't want to put regular grease or oil under pressure in the tire.
----- Original Message ----
From: Mark Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@lists.sjsu.edu
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 11:41:06 AM
Subject: [EVDL] I got Lucky at Lunch
I got lucky at lunch, went over to Shenandoah junk yard (540) 343-7908
that had everything neatly catagorized. In the old bug rim pile by rim
width, the guy picked out a 4" wide rim 4x130mm to match my E-Porsche
914 and a 15" minispare that was also 4" wide rim. Now instead of
cutting & welding the rim all I have to do is sand & rustoleum the old rim,
grease the tire bead and get the mini spare tire mounted on the old
beetle rim and voila I have a VW mini spare for my E-Porsche!
All the guys at the junk yard thought the E-Porsche was cool.
Thanks Keith for your help too.
Have a min-spare (and EVS-23) day,
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you
with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/sports;_ylt=At9_qDKvtAbMuh1G1SQtBI7ntAcJ
------------------------------
Message: 27
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 11:59:15 -0800
From: "(-Phil-)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] VW EV truck problems
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.sjsu.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Well, I would think if it's repeatable, you should (Safely) rig up some
instrumentation to see if it's your controller, motor, or something else. A
voltmeter on the motor would tell you if it's getting power or not. A set
of worn brushes or sticky brush holders might cause no drive even though
power is getting to the motor.
The next step (working back) is to instrument the controller. Run meters to
the input from pack, this will test the contactors, wiring, batteries, etc.
Also check the "ignition" input to make sure it's being made all the time.
Just work the problem logically in steps. Some people work forward, I
usually work backward.
-Phil
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Mohlere" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVDL" <EV@lists.sjsu.edu>; "EV group, MAEAA" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2007 7:17 AM
Subject: [EVDL] VW EV truck problems
> Please see sig for details of my truck. I just had the controller
> refurbished (not more than a month or two ago).
>
> The VW (see sig) cut out for about 30 seconds while I was tooling down the
> road at about 45 mph about a week ago - I almost
> pulled off to the side of the road, and it kicked back in and behaved
> normally, until...
>
> yesterday, it cut out again for about 10 seconds, then back to normal.
>
> today (it was a very cold morning here - frost on the ground, but I keep
> the
> VW in the garage) it pulled to the end of the driveway, then cut out, cut
> back in after about 30 seconds, then cut out again.
>
> I fired up the gas truck (ugh) and went to work.
>
> When I returned (footnot: the sun was out and it was much warmer), I
> pulled
> the truck into the garage - no problem.
>
> Summary - intermittent problem where truck cuts out (completely).
> Accessories work fine.
>
> Any thoughts on how to go about debugging this would be greatly
> appreciated. I was using the truck as my primary source of
> transportation. Can't do that until I can get a handle on the current
> problem.
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> Michael Mohlere
> My EV: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/296.html
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
EV@lists.sjsu.edu
For subscription options, see
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End of EV Digest, Vol 4, Issue 43
*********************************
